FabSwingers.com
 

FabSwingers.com > Forums > Swinging Support and Advice > Doubts about clubs

Doubts about clubs

Jump to: Newest in thread

 

By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago

Why is it so many people find it daunting walking in on their own, when you would do it into a pub or club at times

i know this has been discussed before but i would like to see reasons, not that im nosey but curious

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

It's more thrilling I guess.

Once you have done it once it does seem silly. Swinging clubs are much friendlier than pubs too.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *ambslass48Woman  over a year ago

Peterborough


"Why is it so many people find it daunting walking in on their own, when you would do it into a pub or club at times

i know this has been discussed before but i would like to see reasons, not that im nosey but curious

As a single lady find it much easier going to a club on my own than a pub

"

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Why is it so many people find it daunting walking in on their own, when you would do it into a pub or club at times

i know this has been discussed before but i would like to see reasons, not that im nosey but curious

"

I have no idea. Quite a few guys contact me to ask if we can go together because they don't want to go on their own. I've never really got it to be honest. It always feels a bit like someone is ashamed, and I don't really want to hang out with someone who is ashamed.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"Why is it so many people find it daunting walking in on their own, when you would do it into a pub or club at times

i know this has been discussed before but i would like to see reasons, not that im nosey but curious

I have no idea. Quite a few guys contact me to ask if we can go together because they don't want to go on their own. I've never really got it to be honest. It always feels a bit like someone is ashamed, and I don't really want to hang out with someone who is ashamed."

i see that ashamed or dont want to be billy no mates

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Why is it so many people find it daunting walking in on their own, when you would do it into a pub or club at times

i know this has been discussed before but i would like to see reasons, not that im nosey but curious

"

Genuine question how many people do you know who go to nightclubs on their own

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Why is it so many people find it daunting walking in on their own, when you would do it into a pub or club at times

i know this has been discussed before but i would like to see reasons, not that im nosey but curious

I have no idea. Quite a few guys contact me to ask if we can go together because they don't want to go on their own. I've never really got it to be honest. It always feels a bit like someone is ashamed, and I don't really want to hang out with someone who is ashamed."

It's partly so you don't just become one of the group of single guys. It can be hard to approach somone when there's a cluster of guys following them/standing around as you don't want to be tarred with the same brush.

When you're with a women though couples approach you

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"Why is it so many people find it daunting walking in on their own, when you would do it into a pub or club at times

i know this has been discussed before but i would like to see reasons, not that im nosey but curious

Genuine question how many people do you know who go to nightclubs on their own"

ive met friends in a nightclub after finishing work on lates

like a swinging club i know people there etc

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Why is it so many people find it daunting walking in on their own, when you would do it into a pub or club at times

i know this has been discussed before but i would like to see reasons, not that im nosey but curious

I have no idea. Quite a few guys contact me to ask if we can go together because they don't want to go on their own. I've never really got it to be honest. It always feels a bit like someone is ashamed, and I don't really want to hang out with someone who is ashamed.

It's partly so you don't just become one of the group of single guys. It can be hard to approach somone when there's a cluster of guys following them/standing around as you don't want to be tarred with the same brush.

When you're with a women though couples approach you"

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"

It's partly so you don't just become one of the group of single guys. It can be hard to approach somone when there's a cluster of guys following them/standing around as you don't want to be tarred with the same brush.

When you're with a women though couples approach you"

But these are guys who won't just meet you there, they have to *walk in* with you. I've tried to arrange meets with guys at fetish clubs loads of times (where there is no price difference for men) and when I say I'll meet them in there, they say they don't want to walk in on their own.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Why is it so many people find it daunting walking in on their own, when you would do it into a pub or club at times

i know this has been discussed before but i would like to see reasons, not that im nosey but curious

Genuine question how many people do you know who go to nightclubs on their own

ive met friends in a nightclub after finishing work on lates

like a swinging club i know people there etc"

So you went knowing somone you know will be there. If it's their first time they're not going to know somone are they.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"

It's partly so you don't just become one of the group of single guys. It can be hard to approach somone when there's a cluster of guys following them/standing around as you don't want to be tarred with the same brush.

When you're with a women though couples approach you

But these are guys who won't just meet you there, they have to *walk in* with you. I've tried to arrange meets with guys at fetish clubs loads of times (where there is no price difference for men) and when I say I'll meet them in there, they say they don't want to walk in on their own."

Maybe just nerves, don't know what to expect at the counter etc and just want someone to be there while they do something that for most people is going to be well outside thier comfort zone?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"

It's partly so you don't just become one of the group of single guys. It can be hard to approach somone when there's a cluster of guys following them/standing around as you don't want to be tarred with the same brush.

When you're with a women though couples approach you

But these are guys who won't just meet you there, they have to *walk in* with you. I've tried to arrange meets with guys at fetish clubs loads of times (where there is no price difference for men) and when I say I'll meet them in there, they say they don't want to walk in on their own.

Maybe just nerves, don't know what to expect at the counter etc and just want someone to be there while they do something that for most people is going to be well outside thier comfort zone?"

Just seems a bit odd.

I went to fetish clubs and swinging clubs on my own before ever going with anyone else. There wasn't really a better way to meet people almost ten years ago!

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"

It's partly so you don't just become one of the group of single guys. It can be hard to approach somone when there's a cluster of guys following them/standing around as you don't want to be tarred with the same brush.

When you're with a women though couples approach you

But these are guys who won't just meet you there, they have to *walk in* with you. I've tried to arrange meets with guys at fetish clubs loads of times (where there is no price difference for men) and when I say I'll meet them in there, they say they don't want to walk in on their own."

fet no issue i have found with it

swinging whole different ball game

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"

It's partly so you don't just become one of the group of single guys. It can be hard to approach somone when there's a cluster of guys following them/standing around as you don't want to be tarred with the same brush.

When you're with a women though couples approach you

But these are guys who won't just meet you there, they have to *walk in* with you. I've tried to arrange meets with guys at fetish clubs loads of times (where there is no price difference for men) and when I say I'll meet them in there, they say they don't want to walk in on their own.

Maybe just nerves, don't know what to expect at the counter etc and just want someone to be there while they do something that for most people is going to be well outside thier comfort zone?

Just seems a bit odd.

I went to fetish clubs and swinging clubs on my own before ever going with anyone else. There wasn't really a better way to meet people almost ten years ago!"

Yeah welcome to the different world's of men and women go as a woman everyone's friendly wanting to show you round chat and basically try to get into your pants as a single male things are very different.

But also different people are strangely enough different.

Some are happy public speaking some hate it, some love driving some hate it, some feel confident and prefer being out on thier own others like company

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"

It's partly so you don't just become one of the group of single guys. It can be hard to approach somone when there's a cluster of guys following them/standing around as you don't want to be tarred with the same brush.

When you're with a women though couples approach you

But these are guys who won't just meet you there, they have to *walk in* with you. I've tried to arrange meets with guys at fetish clubs loads of times (where there is no price difference for men) and when I say I'll meet them in there, they say they don't want to walk in on their own.

Maybe just nerves, don't know what to expect at the counter etc and just want someone to be there while they do something that for most people is going to be well outside thier comfort zone?

Just seems a bit odd.

I went to fetish clubs and swinging clubs on my own before ever going with anyone else. There wasn't really a better way to meet people almost ten years ago!

Yeah welcome to the different world's of men and women go as a woman everyone's friendly wanting to show you round chat and basically try to get into your pants as a single male things are very different.

But also different people are strangely enough different.

Some are happy public speaking some hate it, some love driving some hate it, some feel confident and prefer being out on thier own others like company"

I don't think that's either. One of my partners regularly goes to clubs on his own and doesn't seem to have any of the problems that so many men express about clubs.

I wonder sometimes if it's just a case of being confident and acting like you belong.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *ndykinkyMan  over a year ago

STOKE-ON-TRENT

This maybe because some clubs charge more for single men than couples

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Why is it so many people find it daunting walking in on their own, when you would do it into a pub or club at times

i know this has been discussed before but i would like to see reasons, not that im nosey but curious

I have no idea. Quite a few guys contact me to ask if we can go together because they don't want to go on their own. I've never really got it to be honest. It always feels a bit like someone is ashamed, and I don't really want to hang out with someone who is ashamed."

I had this yesterday. A guy was asking if he could tag along with me to amours because he was 'shaking like a shitting leaf' at the thought of going alone ... I quickly pointed out to him that I don't attend clubs to babysit single men who are too scared to go alone/want to get in cheaper. Block

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Seriously though, I don't mind taking men to clubs with me who are confident and know how to behave themselves. I attend quite a lot of clubs on my own and it can be quite intimidating as a single woman when you are being followed by a group of guys, so I can understand the comment above about all single men being tarred with the same brush

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I don't go to nightclubs on my own. But I do meet people in there and have to walk in on my own. I don't like it, because men hit on me and won't leave me alone and women stare at me and I feel threatened.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Why is it so many people find it daunting walking in on their own, when you would do it into a pub or club at times

i know this has been discussed before but i would like to see reasons, not that im nosey but curious

I have no idea. Quite a few guys contact me to ask if we can go together because they don't want to go on their own. I've never really got it to be honest. It always feels a bit like someone is ashamed, and I don't really want to hang out with someone who is ashamed.

I had this yesterday. A guy was asking if he could tag along with me to amours because he was 'shaking like a shitting leaf' at the thought of going alone ... I quickly pointed out to him that I don't attend clubs to babysit single men who are too scared to go alone/want to get in cheaper. Block "

This is me exactly! I need confident people not little lap dogs. You are not far from me hun. PM me if you fancy hitting a club some time.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

First time anyone goes anywhere on their own it will be daunting to some degree, pub, vanilla club or swinging club. Male or Female. The one thing that swingers clubs do seem to do is show people around on your first visit. That probably helps tons. Take out the cost argument and I would personally agree to a meet there even without the guarantee of play. But it certainly wouldn't be a preferred choice. Doubt I'd go on spec as it where. I am however always looking at the socials that pop up from time to time in clubs. They are quite tempting as it would be nice to meet some of the forum regulars in a social setting. In relevance to the topic, I would find that a far less daunting prospect.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Why is it so many people find it daunting walking in on their own, when you would do it into a pub or club at times

i know this has been discussed before but i would like to see reasons, not that im nosey but curious

Genuine question how many people do you know who go to nightclubs on their own"

Exactly this!!

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

When Marc and I first went to a club we were really nervous...and we had eachother to go with. Sometimes we don't meet people we really want to play with, but we can play with eachother. I imagine that it must be pretty intimidating for at least some single guys. If there is a guy we are interested in, we are more than happy to go to a club with him if he wants to try it but doesn't want to go alone. I don't see an issue with it, really.

-Courtney

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Why is it so many people find it daunting walking in on their own, when you would do it into a pub or club at times

i know this has been discussed before but i would like to see reasons, not that im nosey but curious

"

I am a shy nervous person and i manage to go into clubs alone so when a guy asks me to meet him and go in with him then i presume he is simply trying to get in for a cheaper price !

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *ountry girl1980Woman  over a year ago

Hyde

Price is one reason

I've never been to a club (or really wanted to) but I'd like to think my 1st time would be with somebody I have met before if only so I'd not feel like a total newbie, I get the reference to pubs/nightclubs but I'd bet most people 1st time in a pub was with a few mates

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *haunMan  over a year ago

Halton


"Why is it so many people find it daunting walking in on their own, when you would do it into a pub or club at times

i know this has been discussed before but i would like to see reasons, not that im nosey but curious

I have no idea. Quite a few guys contact me to ask if we can go together because they don't want to go on their own. I've never really got it to be honest. It always feels a bit like someone is ashamed, and I don't really want to hang out with someone who is ashamed.

I had this yesterday. A guy was asking if he could tag along with me to amours because he was 'shaking like a shitting leaf' at the thought of going alone ... I quickly pointed out to him that I don't attend clubs to babysit single men who are too scared to go alone/want to get in cheaper. Block "

--

Unless I am meeting someone I already know outside a club.

I will always suggest meeting inside the club.

On occasion, I have met someone new outside the club, but always gone in separately (as such)

As normally the lady goes in free anyway.

So we are meeting / socialising only and me not taking advantage to get in cheaper.

First time is a little daunting, but ring in advance to check.

Then get a tour around the club (normally with rules and etiquette explained)

Then sit at the bar, grab a drink.

Chat to people at the bar and enjoy the experience.

I like to sit in the Jacuzzi and relax and chat. (NO stray wandering hands)

If you go and sit in the corner watching porn talking to no-one then nothing will happen.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

one thing i have noticed in this discussion is that the females are the ones who think its silly. Naturally a woman could go virtually anywhere on their own and there will always be someone willing to chat with them. For a guy you need a bit more than that to get convo flowing. Swinging clubs could be different to this, but i couldnt imagine a single male getting nowhere near as much attention as a single female unless you cock is hanging past your knees maybe its different if the male/female ratio is equal or in favour of females. Anyways bottom line is its understandable why a guy who has never been to a swingers club finds it daunting to attend on his own

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I'm off to a club tonight on my own, however I am feeling a little daunted by this, but I'm sure I'll get myself through the door.

The reason I feel daunted is that I am a single male and I have read multiple comments on the forum about pushy, disrespectful sex fiends who seem to just stand around watching and playing with themselves or else giving the occasional unwanted advance. I'm not one of those men, but I feel I will be judged by some on entering and although it shouldn't bother me it does. I'm sure I would have no problems if I knew someone in there was waiting for a chat and a laugh but as a first timer I do feel a little daunted. I have been in touch this morning with a couple this morning who are going along so already feeling better about it, but still will feel awkward entering for the first time.

That's why I feel daunted by entering a club by myself.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I love going to clubs but could never go on my own.

I think it is because I started swinging as part of a couple and have seen and heard all the negative comments made about single males. Not to mention actually experiencing how rude and seedy some single blokes are.

Whilst I know I would not act like that I still expect most (if not all) couples and single ladies to be looking at me thinking I am some dirty seedy bloke. That thought just puts me off.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"one thing i have noticed in this discussion is that the females are the ones who think its silly. Naturally a woman could go virtually anywhere on their own and there will always be someone willing to chat with them. For a guy you need a bit more than that to get convo flowing. Swinging clubs could be different to this, but i couldnt imagine a single male getting nowhere near as much attention as a single female unless you cock is hanging past your knees maybe its different if the male/female ratio is equal or in favour of females. Anyways bottom line is its understandable why a guy who has never been to a swingers club finds it daunting to attend on his own"

I mean, it's worth pointing out that this isn't the case with all women and all men.

One of my male partners regularly goes to swinging and fetish clubs alone and loves it. He never has any problems with being thought of as a creepy pervert (because... he's not...) and almost always plays.

I, on the other hand, really have to try hard at clubs. Most guys think I'm a lesbian so won't approach me - some can even get funny because I'm quite masculine. Couples generally aren't interested because they're looking for more stereotypically feminine women.

So it's not as clear cut as you suggest, to be honest.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Well I went along by myself on Monday and had the most amazing time I could have ever hoped for.

I arrived, nervously, signed in and paid, was given a very thorough tour by a member of staff and left to it. The first hour was a bit of an eye opener until I found some guys who weren't too busy to chat. The three of us hung out, and then got to chatting to a lady. Soon things escalated and we met more folk really quickly. Then before we knew it there were about 8 of us chatting and playing, socialising with other guests and it was over all too soon. I'm glad I had the courage to go along and I'll never let being alone hold me back again.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I'm nervous of going to a club on my own. I've been before with my OH but I think stereotypical single male behaviour when I'm on my own scares me haha

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *lik and PaulCouple  over a year ago

Flagrante


"It's more thrilling I guess.

Once you have done it once it does seem silly. Swinging clubs are much friendlier than pubs too.

"

I feel so much more at ease at the club than I do going into a pub. There is no pretense and being with like-minded people is fun and exciting

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *amparaWoman  over a year ago

biggleswade

i go on mt own but i guess that's because i'm billy no mates

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Id never go to a nightclub on my own for a couple of reasons a) I dont drink - I find large groups of d*unken people really not my thing b) I tend to get abit of unwanted attention - "wow you're heavily tattooed let me see" "Are you in a band, I know you"

That being said even though ive not been to a swingers club its on my to do and id have no problem going by myself as the two situations and the clientele are completely different

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Id never go to a nightclub on my own for a couple of reasons a) I dont drink - I find large groups of d*unken people really not my thing b) I tend to get abit of unwanted attention - "wow you're heavily tattooed let me see" "Are you in a band, I know you"

That being said even though ive not been to a swingers club its on my to do and id have no problem going by myself as the two situations and the clientele are completely different"

You think B isn't going to happen when you're only wearing a a towel?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *ownhouseTwosomeCouple  over a year ago

Birkenhead/Liverpool

From our observation, we find that single males are more nervous than couples/ladies walking into a club for the first time. We do find that ladies find a pal to go with them or they call us a few times before to reassure them, so by the time they walk in, they feel like they know us! lol

Single guys have lots of anxieties that ladies don't or may not have. One is the reputation that a small minority of their counterparts have caused, i.e. the annoying, wanky man who follows people around. They don't want to be tarred with the same brush and wonder how to prove that they are a nice guy.

They may also have the erection anxiety. What if I am lucky enough to be invited into play and can't get a hard on?!

Guys also do tend to feel more comfortable in 'packs'. Drinks with the lads, night on the town, going to the footy with their mates etc... a lot of swingers clubs won't allow groups of guys in, so all of a sudden they feel exposed.

Some guys (and girls of course) are married and they have the anxiety of seeing someone they know.

We have noticed all of these things over the years and therefore have an information evening on a weds for new single guys. The club is closed to everyone else and we take around 5-6 new guys on these nights, show them around, chat about the rules of the club and they are all the same...new and nervous, so they instantly have 'compadres'. They then have the choice to walk away before the club opens if nerves get the better of them or stay for the evening with no obligation. It's more work for us, but it's a great introduction for guys who are crapping their pants! lol

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Id never go to a nightclub on my own for a couple of reasons a) I dont drink - I find large groups of d*unken people really not my thing b) I tend to get abit of unwanted attention - "wow you're heavily tattooed let me see" "Are you in a band, I know you"

That being said even though ive not been to a swingers club its on my to do and id have no problem going by myself as the two situations and the clientele are completely different

You think B isn't going to happen when you're only wearing a a towel?"

B would most likely be welcomed in the circumstance

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Why is it so many people find it daunting walking in on their own, when you would do it into a pub or club at times

i know this has been discussed before but i would like to see reasons, not that im nosey but curious

"

I wouldn't go to pubs or clubs alone...I'd only go in alone if I knew someone in there and was meeting them, I'd never go and drink by myself. If I was ever going meeting friends alone I'd often intentionally be late so I didn't have to go in and wait on my lonesome in the pub...I have a weirdo radar which will always draw in the nutters, and it seems to go on high alert when I've no back up!

I don't have swinger friends like many on here do so I wouldn't be able to go and meet someone there so I would be on my own all night. I'd like to try a club alone (I've been in the past with an exFB) but I know it'll never happen because I'm not someone who is happy to sit alone at the bar and I'm not the greatest at approaching strangers...especially when just wearing undies

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

 

By *jandjbCouple  over a year ago

Nr Manchester


"From our observation, we find that single males are more nervous than couples/ladies walking into a club for the first time. We do find that ladies find a pal to go with them or they call us a few times before to reassure them, so by the time they walk in, they feel like they know us! lol

Single guys have lots of anxieties that ladies don't or may not have. One is the reputation that a small minority of their counterparts have caused, i.e. the annoying, wanky man who follows people around. They don't want to be tarred with the same brush and wonder how to prove that they are a nice guy.

They may also have the erection anxiety. What if I am lucky enough to be invited into play and can't get a hard on?!

Guys also do tend to feel more comfortable in 'packs'. Drinks with the lads, night on the town, going to the footy with their mates etc... a lot of swingers clubs won't allow groups of guys in, so all of a sudden they feel exposed.

Some guys (and girls of course) are married and they have the anxiety of seeing someone they know.

We have noticed all of these things over the years and therefore have an information evening on a weds for new single guys. The club is closed to everyone else and we take around 5-6 new guys on these nights, show them around, chat about the rules of the club and they are all the same...new and nervous, so they instantly have 'compadres'. They then have the choice to walk away before the club opens if nerves get the better of them or stay for the evening with no obligation. It's more work for us, but it's a great introduction for guys who are crapping their pants! lol "

This is an amazingly good piece of customer service both for the men but also for the rest of us. Thanks guys.

Him

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

  

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Why is it so many people find it daunting walking in on their own, when you would do it into a pub or club at times

i know this has been discussed before but i would like to see reasons, not that im nosey but curious

I wouldn't go to pubs or clubs alone...I'd only go in alone if I knew someone in there and was meeting them, I'd never go and drink by myself. If I was ever going meeting friends alone I'd often intentionally be late so I didn't have to go in and wait on my lonesome in the pub...I have a weirdo radar which will always draw in the nutters, and it seems to go on high alert when I've no back up!

I don't have swinger friends like many on here do so I wouldn't be able to go and meet someone there so I would be on my own all night. I'd like to try a club alone (I've been in the past with an exFB) but I know it'll never happen because I'm not someone who is happy to sit alone at the bar and I'm not the greatest at approaching strangers...especially when just wearing undies "

I feel the same way too

Think I've missed out on some good nights out as I wasn't brave enough to go it alone.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

» Add a new message to this topic

0.0625

0