FabSwingers.com > Forums > Swinging Support and Advice > Should TV and TS be lumped together on this site?
Should TV and TS be lumped together on this site?
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Why oh why do we love to pigeon hole.... Everyone....
I'm a TV but I can guarantee I can give any TS a run for their money when it comes to convincing looks! No I'm not a fat, hairy guy who likes to wear his wife's panties.... I actually have a wardrobe that posh spice would be proud of....
As for TS... You don't go to doc's and tell them you want to be a TS and next day your booked in for re-assignment surgery  ..... They have to live as a
women for a number of years before being considered.... Therefore majority
of TS ... Depending on where they are in the process will still have a penis! .... Only the ones that have come to the
end of the process will have full re-assignment surgery....
I appreciate the ladies who have gone through the full process... and might be offended to be put in the same catagory as big fat hairy men wearing their wife's panties... But again we are being stereotypical here.... For me I couldn't give a shit if your str8, bi, gay or anything in between we all have the right to live our lives how we see fit! ..... cause society says "you need a label"  | |||
"I struggle to see how this would be administered at a nuts and bolts level. How do you determine who is TS? Is it someone who has completed all the ops and is now the opposite sex to their birth? Probably not, as the most appropriate group would now be either female or male. Is it those who have completed a significant part of the process? Would it be people who have just started hormone therapy? How about those who feel they were born in the wrong sex, but have yet to take steps? Or those who have moments where they feel more female than male? Do we require evidence of any of the above or do we rely on the individual to be honest? On another site, more specifically geared towards Chix, people can pick which category (Tv/Cd/TG, etc) that they feel most comfortable in and I've got three personal friends who have picked TG, yet spend 90% of their time in male mode. I think the most sensible thing is to leave it as it is and let people decide whether the profile they are looking at matches the profile they are seeking. "Thank you! That helps a lot. | |||
"Here we go again
Why oh why do we love to pigeon hole.... Everyone....
I'm a TV but I can guarantee I can give any TS a run for their money when it comes to convincing looks! No I'm not a fat, hairy guy who likes to wear his wife's panties.... I actually have a wardrobe that posh spice would be proud of....
As for TS... You don't go to doc's and tell them you want to be a TS and next day your booked in for re-assignment surgery ..... They have to live as a
women for a number of years before being considered.... Therefore majority
of TS ... Depending on where they are in the process will still have a penis! .... Only the ones that have come to the
end of the process will have full re-assignment surgery....
I appreciate the ladies who have gone through the full process... and might be offended to be put in the same catagory as big fat hairy men wearing their wife's panties... But again we are being stereotypical here.... For me I couldn't give a shit if your str8, bi, gay or anything in between we all have the right to live our lives how we see fit! ..... cause society says "you need a label" "I understand it is a sensitive issue which is why I wanted to learn more. I am pigeon holed as a male. No problem for me as that is what I am. I have no personal interest in TV although totally support their right to live as they wish. We do however live in a world of labels so I regret some will remain till long after you and I turn to dust. | |||
(like yourself)
Also bit of advice..... Internet is a wonderful thing. .......So if your ignorant to the definitions ..... Then try google.... Or do some research on the subject 
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"I hear what your saying ..... But what I find odd and strange.... That those who are squealing the loudest for TS/TV's to be separated.... Majority aren't even from the TS/TV community (like yourself)
Also bit of advice..... Internet is a wonderful thing. .......So if your ignorant to the definitions ..... Then try google.... Or do some research on the subject
""Squealing"? Really? Why are you surprised that the people not in the TV/TS community do not know as much as you about it? If you are content to have others express your point of view I will Google it. Others above have however offered helpful information for which I am grateful. | |||
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but I don't suffer fools .... and ignorance leads to that.... If I don't know something on a subject matter.... I do my research or wind my neck in on the subject and say nothing until I know .... Not put my opinion up and then say don't nit pick on my
wording! Sorry I wasnt helpful .... Haha  | |||
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"Why has anyone got to be 'lumped together'?? Everyone is so very different. People like what they like.Part of the fun in all this is finding out about different people. " Not my choice. It is just that on Fab the choice includes "TV/TS" which is not separate. I was only trying to see if TVs mind being included with TSs and vice versa.  as, from what i knew, they are different in their outlook and potentially physically. | |||
"Nope I wasn't saying that!.... The point I was making is ..... Those people who don't belong to the TS/TV community squeal the loudest for TS/TV's to be separated. Not talking about lack of knowledge on subject matter. Forgive me.... If I don't come across as helpful lol but I don't suffer fools .... and ignorance leads to that.... If I don't know something on a subject matter.... I do my research or wind my neck in on the subject and say nothing until I know .... Not put my opinion up and then say don't nit pick on my
wording! Sorry I wasnt helpful .... Haha "I am not, and never have been, "squealing" for "separation". I just wanted to understand the situation from those that live it. If, as an example, they had no "Male" category and only had "Bi/Straight/Gay Male" as a category I would suggest that not many straight men would feel comfortable being included in that all inclusive category. [Que gender jokes!] I am not a fool. We all learn by asking human beings questions as well as trawling the internet. The purpose of this forum is "Swinging Support and Advice" so surely one should be able to ask a civil question in here without anyone trying to belittle you? Manrider has given helpful, unbiased and unemotional comments without seeking to belittle anyone, for that I am grateful and better informed. As you correctly observe, you have not done the same. | |||
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"how come there doesn't seem to be as many female to male tv's/ts's?" LOL, much easier to cut a cock off than to stick one on ! | |||
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"I have no knowledge of these two gender choices but from what I do know they seem sufficiently different to justify separate billing like men and women. As I understand it a male TV likes to dress and act as a woman but remains a male; whereas a TS may in fact have had gender reassignment surgery and appear to all as a female. Should they be considered to be the same thing on Fab or not? Rider: This is a straight serious no-agenda question seeking advice and information from those who know. Please try and explain and not nit pick over minute non-pc wording. "Is this the new bbw?!! Every day this question gets asked!  | |||
"I have no knowledge of these two gender choices but from what I do know they seem sufficiently different to justify separate billing like men and women. As I understand it a male TV likes to dress and act as a woman but remains a male; whereas a TS may in fact have had gender reassignment surgery and appear to all as a female. Should they be considered to be the same thing on Fab or not? Rider: This is a straight serious no-agenda question seeking advice and information from those who know. Please try and explain and not nit pick over minute non-pc wording.
Is this the new bbw?!! Every day this question gets asked! "It's replaced questions about the allure of a BBC | |||
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is that not proving my point! - I'm not belittling you .... I'm not going to humour you neither... Right enough said for me....... Away to do my nails | |||
"I have no knowledge of these two gender choices but from what I do know they seem sufficiently different to justify separate billing like men and women. As I understand it a male TV likes to dress and act as a woman but remains a male; whereas a TS may in fact have had gender reassignment surgery and appear to all as a female. Should they be considered to be the same thing on Fab or not? Rider: This is a straight serious no-agenda question seeking advice and information from those who know. Please try and explain and not nit pick over minute non-pc wording.
Is this the new bbw?!! Every day this question gets asked! "I did search the forums before posting and did not get an answer to the specific question I asked.  | |||
"OP - you cannot create a thread where you express your opinion on a subject matter.... As you acknowledged yourself "you know very little about" .... I have no intention of belittling anyone.... But if I disagree then it's my right and opinion to do so.... But like I said you proved my point anyways Those who "squeal" the loudest.... You created this thread... And on your first 2 paragraphs you talk about limited knowledge on subject but still think fab should separate the two. Therefore your not from the TV/TS community .... So again my statement was " those that "squeal" the loudest about "separation" don't even come from the TS/TV community - and even more with you.... You acknowledge you know nothing on the matter..... is that not proving my point! - I'm not belittling you .... I'm not going to humour you neither... Right enough said for me....... Away to do my nails "Thank you. The "statement" you read was a question; everyone else thought that. We will call it a day there. Hope the nails look lovely!!  | |||
"Should TV and TS be lumped together on this site? I think any thread title proposing violence purely on the grounds of sexual orientation should be shut down immediately "Until I joined Fab I thought a TS was a type of Alfa Romeo engine. | |||
"I have no knowledge of these two gender choices but from what I do know they seem sufficiently different to justify separate billing like men and women. As I understand it a male TV likes to dress and act as a woman but remains a male; whereas a TS may in fact have had gender reassignment surgery and appear to all as a female. Should they be considered to be the same thing on Fab or not? Rider: This is a straight serious no-agenda question seeking advice and information from those who know. Please try and explain and not nit pick over minute non-pc wording. "Ideally you would place them in separate sectors but you could go on and on and on and it all costs so why not have things as they are. | |||
"I have no knowledge of these two gender choices but from what I do know they seem sufficiently different to justify separate billing like men and women. As I understand it a male TV likes to dress and act as a woman but remains a male; whereas a TS may in fact have had gender reassignment surgery and appear to all as a female. Should they be considered to be the same thing on Fab or not? Rider: This is a straight serious no-agenda question seeking advice and information from those who know. Please try and explain and not nit pick over minute non-pc wording.
Ideally you would place them in separate sectors but you could go on and on and on and it all costs so why not have things as they are. "It does not affect me personally at all. It was an academic question. Fab can do what they like and if those affected are happy; so be it. | |||
"I struggle to see how this would be administered at a nuts and bolts level. How do you determine who is TS? Is it someone who has completed all the ops and is now the opposite sex to their birth? Probably not, as the most appropriate group would now be either female or male. Is it those who have completed a significant part of the process? Would it be people who have just started hormone therapy? How about those who feel they were born in the wrong sex, but have yet to take steps? Or those who have moments where they feel more female than male? Do we require evidence of any of the above or do we rely on the individual to be honest? On another site, more specifically geared towards Chix, people can pick which category (Tv/Cd/TG, etc) that they feel most comfortable in and I've got three personal friends who have picked TG, yet spend 90% of their time in male mode. I think the most sensible thing is to leave it as it is and let people decide whether the profile they are looking at matches the profile they are seeking. "For me a TS is someone who is living completely full time as the opposite sex. Whether they have hormones or surgery is not important. What is important is the state of mind. | |||
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"I struggle to see how this would be administered at a nuts and bolts level. How do you determine who is TS? Is it someone who has completed all the ops and is now the opposite sex to their birth? Probably not, as the most appropriate group would now be either female or male. Is it those who have completed a significant part of the process? Would it be people who have just started hormone therapy? How about those who feel they were born in the wrong sex, but have yet to take steps? Or those who have moments where they feel more female than male? Do we require evidence of any of the above or do we rely on the individual to be honest? On another site, more specifically geared towards Chix, people can pick which category (Tv/Cd/TG, etc) that they feel most comfortable in and I've got three personal friends who have picked TG, yet spend 90% of their time in male mode. I think the most sensible thing is to leave it as it is and let people decide whether the profile they are looking at matches the profile they are seeking.
For me a TS is someone who is living completely full time as the opposite sex. Whether they have hormones or surgery is not important. What is important is the state of mind. "Fair enough, but that is ONE, definition and may not appeal to all and again how is it be determined who belongs in which category? | |||
"Everyone should be 'lumped together'. Wouldn't that be a fun night ?" Now thats a brilliant idea | |||
"Its a shame we dont have any active TS like we do TVs it would give different views. Right now its more TVs saying theres no need to. But the truth is that there is 100% a need to as I said they appeal to different markets." On similar threads ts'/tg's have said they'd like a another category to separate them from tv's and cd's. A sentiment I totally agree with. | |||
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"That's cool, but I've yet to hear how it would work. What's to stop anyone picking the category they want? " My understanding of the differences are....... A tv/cd is a man dressed as a woman whether for sexual gratification, a need to get in touch with their feminine side, whatever. Essentially it's a part time/occasional thing, often done in secret. A ts or tg feels they were born into the wrong body and may take varying steps to rectify their situation, either way they will be a full time 'female'. If a tv or cd chooses to categorise themselves as ts or tg then it will be no different than a large woman calling themselves curvy, an ample woman calling herself average or a skinny bloke calling himself athletic. Their perception of themselves but still wrong. | |||
"how come there doesn't seem to be as many female to male tv's/ts's?" In my experience - there are..!!! They just aren't as visible, and tend to move in different social circles... | |||
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"Is this the new bbw?!! Every day this question gets asked! "Strange, isn't, how like waiting for buses, they all come at once. Don't know what's sparked this flurry of posts, don't know if it's because January has 2 supermoons this month, which is a rare event. | |||
"Its a shame we dont have any active TS like we do TVs it would give different views. Right now its more TVs saying theres no need to. But the truth is that there is 100% a need to as I said they appeal to different markets. " Most of us (not just T*) choose not to reveal too much in public forums, and choose to be generally private. The poster asked a question, albeit the type of question that has come up fairly often recently. I think with the sheer no of users already in the category, the costs for Fab to introduce it, the effort involved in everyone potentially having to recategorise themselves etc, is just a no go. There are a ton of things fab can spend its limited budget on, and it's likely a very low priority. I've not seen it raised much in the suggestions area, and generally clear communication between users, via profiles and messages, is what will allow us all to meet the people we'd like to. | |||
" If a tv or cd chooses to categorise themselves as ts or tg then it will be no different than a large woman calling themselves curvy, an ample woman calling herself average or a skinny bloke calling himself athletic. Their perception of themselves but still wrong." Yes, but from the pics it is reasonably easy to tell if someone is large rather than curvy, whereas between some TS and some TV's it's not so easy. | |||
"Its a shame we dont have any active TS like we do TVs it would give different views. Right now its more TVs saying theres no need to. But the truth is that there is 100% a need to as I said they appeal to different markets." Yeah, "straight" guys! | |||
" If a tv or cd chooses to categorise themselves as ts or tg then it will be no different than a large woman calling themselves curvy, an ample woman calling herself average or a skinny bloke calling himself athletic. Their perception of themselves but still wrong. Yes, but from the pics it is reasonably easy to tell if someone is large rather than curvy, whereas between some TS and some TV's it's not so easy. " Can't tell true body shape from a close up of an eye, mouth, buttock or left shoulder blade. I know it's unlikely to happen on this site but I fully understand why a TS/TG would want to be separated. | |||
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"So basically, it comes down to whatever category the TV/TS wishes to put themselves? I don't see how we're any further forward. " I can't see a transsexual ticking the transvestite box but if a tv wishes to deceive and choose the ts category then he will do so. We already have men setting up single female and couple profiles. | |||
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" I can't see a transsexual ticking the transvestite box but if a tv wishes to deceive and choose the ts category then he will do so. We already have men setting up single female and couple profiles." Yes, but a guy setting up a female profile isn't going to have a meet, whereas someone who believes themselves to be more TS than TV can. It still comes back to the individual looking at the profile and making a decision. | |||
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"Its a shame we dont have any active TS like we do TVs it would give different views. Right now its more TVs saying theres no need to. But the truth is that there is 100% a need to as I said they appeal to different markets. Yeah, "straight" guys! "Alright no need to get snarky. We aren't the ones to judge how others choose to label themselves. | |||
"how come there doesn't seem to be as many female to male tv's/ts's?" I have often asked the same question. I go to LFF (leeds first fri - big ts/tv/cd night out) and meet with other tv, cd, ts etc and lots of men come to meet tvs. Is there a similar 'club/event' where women dress as men and go to meet women who fancy women dressed as men ?  | |||
"Its simple. This has been suggested a lot in the past (or this week actually) and you can break down the arguments thus. TS- some are offended at being in the same category as people like me. People who dress as a lifestyle choice. It's seen as an undermining of their serious medical condition and psychological torment. So they'd rather some separation between us. This argument is fair enough and for me means I am happy for them to have their own category. Everyone else-Has a vision of a hot, slim, busty, big cocked TS and wants the category split to make it easier to find that person without having to wade through all us TV/CD. You can dress it up in as much noble sentiment about respecting their medical condition blah blah blah as you want, if you've got "looking to meet TS" as a preference then you're unlikely to be caring about people like me offending their mental state. You want girls who look like the ones in the top fabbed pics to fuck or be fucked by. Thats it! Thats the only reason so cut the pretence. You want the site to make it easier for you to bombard these women with mails in the vain hope of meeting one. You're here for casual sex and want the site to make it easier for you to arrange it. Like you care about the psychological difference between a TS and a "convincing" TV when you're balls deep in one, or vice versa. And if you can't tell the difference between a TV/TS you fancy and a CD you don't, then get an eye test. Newsflash, have you checked the locations of the girls In the most fabbed section? Chances are, unless you live near a major city or conurbation with a gay scene or accepting area then you won't find the pornstar you seek. Which as I've stated before is another reason I'm happy for the split category. As when people who live in Bumfuck Northumberland realise that their 1 local TS is a rather plain ordinary looking woman (as is the reality, most true TS are trying to live like an ordinary woman not a pornstar), then they'll jump back to looking for a glam TV like me. So split it and lets have no more of these threads, then I can do a "Told You So" thread in a few months time. "  | |||
"Its simple. This has been suggested a lot in the past (or this week actually) and you can break down the arguments thus. TS- some are offended at being in the same category as people like me. People who dress as a lifestyle choice. It's seen as an undermining of their serious medical condition and psychological torment. So they'd rather some separation between us. This argument is fair enough and for me means I am happy for them to have their own category. Everyone else-Has a vision of a hot, slim, busty, big cocked TS and wants the category split to make it easier to find that person without having to wade through all us TV/CD. You can dress it up in as much noble sentiment about respecting their medical condition blah blah blah as you want, if you've got "looking to meet TS" as a preference then you're unlikely to be caring about people like me offending their mental state. You want girls who look like the ones in the top fabbed pics to fuck or be fucked by. Thats it! Thats the only reason so cut the pretence. You want the site to make it easier for you to bombard these women with mails in the vain hope of meeting one. You're here for casual sex and want the site to make it easier for you to arrange it. Like you care about the psychological difference between a TS and a "convincing" TV when you're balls deep in one, or vice versa. And if you can't tell the difference between a TV/TS you fancy and a CD you don't, then get an eye test. Newsflash, have you checked the locations of the girls In the most fabbed section? Chances are, unless you live near a major city or conurbation with a gay scene or accepting area then you won't find the pornstar you seek. Which as I've stated before is another reason I'm happy for the split category. As when people who live in Bumfuck Northumberland realise that their 1 local TS is a rather plain ordinary looking woman (as is the reality, most true TS are trying to live like an ordinary woman not a pornstar), then they'll jump back to looking for a glam TV like me. So split it and lets have no more of these threads, then I can do a "Told You So" thread in a few months time. " At last! A tv who is willingly to admit there is a world of difference and in doing so reveals why so many (well, the vocal ones) seem to be against the idea! Don't worry, the category split is unlikely to happen but thanks for agreeing anyway, Jodie. | |||
" At last! A tv who is willingly to admit there is a world of difference and in doing so reveals why so many (well, the vocal ones) seem to be against the idea! Don't worry, the category split is unlikely to happen but thanks for agreeing anyway, Jodie." Yeah I think you missed the point and general gist of my post. I also revealed why so many single men/couples/ladies are for the split. | |||
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" At last! A tv who is willingly to admit there is a world of difference and in doing so reveals why so many (well, the vocal ones) seem to be against the idea! Don't worry, the category split is unlikely to happen but thanks for agreeing anyway, Jodie. Yeah I think you missed the point and general gist of my post. I also revealed why so many single men/couples/ladies are for the split. " No, I didn't miss the general gist of your post. I just responded to points that were pertinent to my views. | |||
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