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Are open beds a free for all?
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By *g1979 OP Man
over a year ago
bexley |
So opinions please. Couples only nights, when you have large beds and couples are playing does that mean a free for all?
Whenever we have been on beds before my female partner might play with another woman who is with her partner. She isn't into other guys and it's normally something that just happens with the other woman.
We've had a few times now where the male partner thinks just because the 2 girls are touching its ok for him to try and touch my partner without asking permission.
Also had once or twice where if a couple is beside us the guy has gone in for a feel even without any interaction between the girls.
My partner isn't shy so a quick "no!" Is all that is required.
Shouldn't it always be the woman to start proceedings? |
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At the risk of being flamed here I would say by laying down next to another couple or allowing that to happen is seen pretty much as an invitation.
Of course it’s polite to ask but Leaving a door open, allowing a couple to lay with you and then allowing interaction between some parties is pretty much a green light in our eyes.
Like you said, It just happens with the women….so don’t chastise a guy for joining in having seen that! People aren’t mind readers. |
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By *g1979 OP Man
over a year ago
bexley |
"Op,are you saying a man should ask,but a woman doesn't have to?
Or have I picked this up wrong?"
No. When my partner has played with a girl there will be an interaction between them both.
World of difference to a guy just randomly grabbing at tit |
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By *UFSWoman
over a year ago
belfast |
"Op,are you saying a man should ask,but a woman doesn't have to?
Or have I picked this up wrong?
No. When my partner has played with a girl there will be an interaction between them both.
World of difference to a guy just randomly grabbing at tit"
And what if one of the women is straight? |
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The choice of space may indicate more chance of openess to join in. But it's never a free for all. Just because people generally play in a group/open space with the intention of others joining doesn't mean those other include you. You always need to check consent. Consent doesn't have to be verbal, quite often it's not. But you need to check it's a 100% ok and if your not 100% sure, check again even if you have to specially verbalise it. Same goes for if your wanting move into something more intimate. For example you may have permission to touch and happily touching away but that shouldn't be taken as implied consent for penetration. |
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By *g1979 OP Man
over a year ago
bexley |
"Op,are you saying a man should ask,but a woman doesn't have to?
Or have I picked this up wrong?
No. When my partner has played with a girl there will be an interaction between them both.
World of difference to a guy just randomly grabbing at tit
And what if one of the women is straight?"
The few times my partner has played with another woman in this scenario it's always followed tbe same lines. During sex the two women brush hands, then hand holding, then looking at each other followed by kissing and groping. Anything more has been when my partner has spoke to them.
My partner has had women try it with her by attempting to stroke her hand and if she hasn't felt the vibe she has moved her hand away. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I've been to a few clubs, done the whole open room thing as part of a couple.
Theres always been some obvious communication before playing with other couples, never any assumptions made either way.
And with single guys too.
Its normally the odd single guy who tends to over step. Though overall, people in clubs have been respectful.
Communication doesn't have to be a conversation, something simple as a hand gesture etc can sometimes be more than enough lol. Though chatting is obviously clearer. |
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By *issmorganWoman
over a year ago
Calderdale innit |
Surely it should all be made clear before it gets to that stage?.
I'm straight so i'd obviously have told the other couple that i wouldn't play with or want to be with another woman.
That would perhaps stop any misunderstandings. |
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
Just talk.
A simple 'may I...?' Is allocated is required, whether male or female.
Couples or open rooms aren't and never have been free for all. Consent is still required. If you haven't had verbal confirmation that any physical contact is OK then you leave yourself open to upsetting people or getting offended yourself.
If you're happy enough to contemplate touching someone else then surely you should be capable of speaking to them?
A |
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I feel there should be some communication between the couples, we play regularly at clubs and often are playing together and another couple play on the same bed / area... I would defo still expect some sort of communication whether verbal or eye contact/jestures etc.
Anyone, regardelss of sex, who just grabs in with us is given a polite push away or a no thank you, consent is everything on the club/party scene |
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"So opinions please. Couples only nights, when you have large beds and couples are playing does that mean a free for all?
Whenever we have been on beds before my female partner might play with another woman who is with her partner. She isn't into other guys and it's normally something that just happens with the other woman.
We've had a few times now where the male partner thinks just because the 2 girls are touching its ok for him to try and touch my partner without asking permission.
Also had once or twice where if a couple is beside us the guy has gone in for a feel even without any interaction between the girls.
My partner isn't shy so a quick "no!" Is all that is required.
Shouldn't it always be the woman to start proceedings?"
No, it most certainly is not. No consent = no play. Anyone who disrespects that should be removed from the club. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"At the risk of being flamed here I would say by laying down next to another couple or allowing that to happen is seen pretty much as an invitation.
Of course it’s polite to ask but Leaving a door open, allowing a couple to lay with you and then allowing interaction between some parties is pretty much a green light in our eyes.
Like you said, It just happens with the women….so don’t chastise a guy for joining in having seen that! People aren’t mind readers."
Disagree entirely! Permission should always be sought, no exceptions |
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Just because an environment may support people being in close proximity with others, even if naked and for sexual activity, it in no way reduces or removes the requirements for full, active consent.
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Be it a couples only room or a large bed room the rukes are still the same
You are there and unless you are invited you dont get involved
Ive been in couples rooms were the couples stick to themselves theres is and shoukd not be any expectations to the contrary just because its one big room
Open rooms again no expectations
Just because me and who i want are in a small group doesn't mean i get involved with the group also on the bed having their fun....
Other people watching should always ask or be invited (if they want) to join in
Basic rules |
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"At the risk of being flamed here I would say by laying down next to another couple or allowing that to happen is seen pretty much as an invitation.
Of course it’s polite to ask but Leaving a door open, allowing a couple to lay with you and then allowing interaction between some parties is pretty much a green light in our eyes.
Like you said, It just happens with the women….so don’t chastise a guy for joining in having seen that! People aren’t mind readers."
Yes agree with you |
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Absolutely not, all touching must be preceded by an enquiry as to whether it would be welcome!
And please make sure it’s at an appropriate moment. Once I was going down on Kitty and a guy whispered in her ear a polite request, but because Kitty had her eyes closed and was enjoying the moment, she jumped out of her skin! Damn near broke my nose! |
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By *JohnMan
over a year ago
Newcastle upon Tyne |
There's no free for all anywhere in a club, unless that's been explicitly stated as the policy for this event (I've never seen an event with that policy, but maybe someone runs one somewhere).
Getting onto the bed next to other people, and starting to play, can be read as an invitation to ask. Sometimes asking is difficult, because people aren't sure about the response they'll get and rejection hurts. Starting to play next to someone can be a way of saying "if you ask, we'll say yes", which makes it all easier.
But you still need to ask. They might be there just because the club is crowded and there's nowhere else to go. Or they don't want to play with others, but find it hot having others close to them. You can't know until they say "yes".
I prefer it to be spoken, as that's less ambiguous. But I don't think it has to be. A gesture, a querying face, a smile and a nod - that might be all that's needed. |
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By * and BCouple
over a year ago
Durham |
"At the risk of being flamed here I would say by laying down next to another couple or allowing that to happen is seen pretty much as an invitation.
Of course it’s polite to ask but Leaving a door open, allowing a couple to lay with you and then allowing interaction between some parties is pretty much a green light in our eyes.
Like you said, It just happens with the women….so don’t chastise a guy for joining in having seen that! People aren’t mind readers."
Absolutely NOT. Just because a door is open and the bed is a large bed where people can play next to each other it is NEVER a green light. Asking first before you touch stops a situation where you have sexually assaulted someone. You should NEVER, NEVER touch unless you are verbally invited or you have asked Permission and they have given consent, it's not rocket science and also respect is paramount  |
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By *ensualMan
over a year ago
Sutton |
My reading of the situation is that it is not about random males try to join in, but whether couples play as a unit or the male of the other couple is to be excluded.
I would have thought a couple comes as a unit, and although the male partner should have asked before touching, I think OP or his wife should have made it clear upfront before anything starts that this is a girl on girl situation only. Therefore the other couple has full knowledge of the situation and can decide whether to proceed or not. There does not appear to be a clear meeting of all minds before the play starts. |
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"My reading of the situation is that it is not about random males try to join in, but whether couples play as a unit or the male of the other couple is to be excluded.
I would have thought a couple comes as a unit, and although the male partner should have asked before touching, I think OP or his wife should have made it clear upfront before anything starts that this is a girl on girl situation only. Therefore the other couple has full knowledge of the situation and can decide whether to proceed or not. There does not appear to be a clear meeting of all minds before the play starts."
I totally agree, that was the point I was trying to make also. I think any reasonable couple would treat a couple as a unit.
Single guys jumping on a bed with a couple with hands all over is different to a couple being allowed to lay and 50% play.
These comments of sexual assault in that given situation are ridiculous. If my wife was allowed to touch without asking I could reasonably assume I could too. |
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"These comments of sexual assault in that given situation are ridiculous. If my wife was allowed to touch without asking I could reasonably assume I could too."
Thought you might appreciate a definition:
What is sexual assault?
Sexual assault happens when someone touches another person in a sexual manner without their consent. Or when someone makes another person take part in a sexual activity with them without that person's consent. It includes unwanted kissing and sexual touching. |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
"
I totally agree, that was the point I was trying to make also. I think any reasonable couple would treat a couple as a unit.
Single guys jumping on a bed with a couple with hands all over is different to a couple being allowed to lay and 50% play.
These comments of sexual assault in that given situation are ridiculous. If my wife was allowed to touch without asking I could reasonably assume I could too. "
What makes you think it's ok for your wife to touch without asking ?
Any woman who has touched me has always asked or been asked anything else is disrespectful at best and assault at worst |
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"These comments of sexual assault in that given situation are ridiculous. If my wife was allowed to touch without asking I could reasonably assume I could too.
Thought you might appreciate a definition:
What is sexual assault?
Sexual assault happens when someone touches another person in a sexual manner without their consent. Or when someone makes another person take part in a sexual activity with them without that person's consent. It includes unwanted kissing and sexual touching."
I totally understand that, but you are failing to recognise the situation.
I have never been, and don’t expect to be in a situation where we, as a couple start playing with an other couple and alI the parties have to ask specific permissions. It is reasonable to assume a green light is given from one couple to another when 2 people of the group start engaging.
That’s the point I’m trying to make. Claiming sexual assault in that situation is just crazy. At best a simple oops would be more the case. If that happened to us we would both apologise for the misunderstanding and both leave.
Has any other couples been in a situation where 4 sets of permissions have been asked ? You can potentially make that 8 if you meet people that want to touch but not be touched!
Can A touch B?
Can C touch D ?
Can B touch D ?
Can A touch D ?
What about in the reverse ?
I understand respect, consent and generally courtesy but I’m trying to point out why these situations arise. Sometimes that consent can be implied by certain behaviours towards the couple as a single entity.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think if there is non verbal or verbal consent between the women, there should also be a verbal or non verbal consent between the partners too. The women didn't go straight in to body parts, probably hands or a kiss while reading the other woman's face. Partners should absolutely do this too, as couples have seperate body autonomy & everyone plays differently. If the women go in for body parts without watching for or hearing consent, they are also risking assault. I'm flabbergasted that women or men would assume an open room means green light or 1 partner playing means fair game for the others to join in. Some form of Consent (verbal or non verbal) or assault are the legal black and white options here for all parties.
Watching for a smile or nod or response is non verbal but easily misinterpreted in the moment when others are at play. For safety & to be very clear, verbal is always better for all, so the the poster that suggested the 'May I?' Approach is spot on.
I would be furious if I got a non verbal cue, kissed the wife & then her husband assumed my body was fair game   |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"These comments of sexual assault in that given situation are ridiculous. If my wife was allowed to touch without asking I could reasonably assume I could too.
Thought you might appreciate a definition:
What is sexual assault?
Sexual assault happens when someone touches another person in a sexual manner without their consent. Or when someone makes another person take part in a sexual activity with them without that person's consent. It includes unwanted kissing and sexual touching.
I totally understand that, but you are failing to recognise the situation.
I have never been, and don’t expect to be in a situation where we, as a couple start playing with an other couple and alI the parties have to ask specific permissions. It is reasonable to assume a green light is given from one couple to another when 2 people of the group start engaging.
That’s the point I’m trying to make. Claiming sexual assault in that situation is just crazy. At best a simple oops would be more the case. If that happened to us we would both apologise for the misunderstanding and both leave.
Has any other couples been in a situation where 4 sets of permissions have been asked ? You can potentially make that 8 if you meet people that want to touch but not be touched!
Can A touch B?
Can C touch D ?
Can B touch D ?
Can A touch D ?
What about in the reverse ?
I understand respect, consent and generally courtesy but I’m trying to point out why these situations arise. Sometimes that consent can be implied by certain behaviours towards the couple as a single entity.
"
Yes, all parties need some form of individual consent to play (a/b, a/c, a/d... etc) & no assumptions about consent should be made. Otherwise the person assuming is risking being accused of assault. |
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"These comments of sexual assault in that given situation are ridiculous. If my wife was allowed to touch without asking I could reasonably assume I could too.
Thought you might appreciate a definition:
What is sexual assault?
Sexual assault happens when someone touches another person in a sexual manner without their consent. Or when someone makes another person take part in a sexual activity with them without that person's consent. It includes unwanted kissing and sexual touching.
I totally understand that, but you are failing to recognise the situation.
I have never been, and don’t expect to be in a situation where we, as a couple start playing with an other couple and alI the parties have to ask specific permissions. It is reasonable to assume a green light is given from one couple to another when 2 people of the group start engaging.
That’s the point I’m trying to make. Claiming sexual assault in that situation is just crazy. At best a simple oops would be more the case. If that happened to us we would both apologise for the misunderstanding and both leave.
Has any other couples been in a situation where 4 sets of permissions have been asked ? You can potentially make that 8 if you meet people that want to touch but not be touched!
Can A touch B?
Can C touch D ?
Can B touch D ?
Can A touch D ?
What about in the reverse ?
I understand respect, consent and generally courtesy but I’m trying to point out why these situations arise. Sometimes that consent can be implied by certain behaviours towards the couple as a single entity.
Yes, all parties need some form of individual consent to play (a/b, a/c, a/d... etc) & no assumptions about consent should be made. Otherwise the person assuming is risking being accused of assault. "
I better rustle up a check list, risk assessment and sign off sheet then.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think in reality an accusation of assault with all the police investigations would be an unusual occurrence in a club.
You’ll probably just end up with a small scene being made in the club. "
Are you suggesting the lack of consequences means its OK, or just highlighting it's unlikely? Being asked to leave or being banned is more likely consequence if the person went to management? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"These comments of sexual assault in that given situation are ridiculous. If my wife was allowed to touch without asking I could reasonably assume I could too.
Thought you might appreciate a definition:
What is sexual assault?
Sexual assault happens when someone touches another person in a sexual manner without their consent. Or when someone makes another person take part in a sexual activity with them without that person's consent. It includes unwanted kissing and sexual touching.
I totally understand that, but you are failing to recognise the situation.
I have never been, and don’t expect to be in a situation where we, as a couple start playing with an other couple and alI the parties have to ask specific permissions. It is reasonable to assume a green light is given from one couple to another when 2 people of the group start engaging.
That’s the point I’m trying to make. Claiming sexual assault in that situation is just crazy. At best a simple oops would be more the case. If that happened to us we would both apologise for the misunderstanding and both leave.
Has any other couples been in a situation where 4 sets of permissions have been asked ? You can potentially make that 8 if you meet people that want to touch but not be touched!
Can A touch B?
Can C touch D ?
Can B touch D ?
Can A touch D ?
What about in the reverse ?
I understand respect, consent and generally courtesy but I’m trying to point out why these situations arise. Sometimes that consent can be implied by certain behaviours towards the couple as a single entity.
Yes, all parties need some form of individual consent to play (a/b, a/c, a/d... etc) & no assumptions about consent should be made. Otherwise the person assuming is risking being accused of assault.
I better rustle up a check list, risk assessment and sign off sheet then.
"
Or you could just get consent, which takes a matter of seconds??? |
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"I think in reality an accusation of assault with all the police investigations would be an unusual occurrence in a club.
You’ll probably just end up with a small scene being made in the club.
Are you suggesting the lack of consequences means its OK, or just highlighting it's unlikely? Being asked to leave or being banned is more likely consequence if the person went to management? "
Obviously not suggesting it’s ok! Just that most people will be content with a ‘don’t do that!’
But obviously if someone has been touched somewhere very inappropriate, rather than a shoulder or arm touch then that’s altogether different.
Depends how you mean touched. |
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By * and BCouple
over a year ago
Durham |
"These comments of sexual assault in that given situation are ridiculous. If my wife was allowed to touch without asking I could reasonably assume I could too.
Thought you might appreciate a definition:
What is sexual assault?
Sexual assault happens when someone touches another person in a sexual manner without their consent. Or when someone makes another person take part in a sexual activity with them without that person's consent. It includes unwanted kissing and sexual touching.
I totally understand that, but you are failing to recognise the situation.
I have never been, and don’t expect to be in a situation where we, as a couple start playing with an other couple and alI the parties have to ask specific permissions. It is reasonable to assume a green light is given from one couple to another when 2 people of the group start engaging.
That’s the point I’m trying to make. Claiming sexual assault in that situation is just crazy. At best a simple oops would be more the case. If that happened to us we would both apologise for the misunderstanding and both leave.
Has any other couples been in a situation where 4 sets of permissions have been asked ? You can potentially make that 8 if you meet people that want to touch but not be touched!
Can A touch B?
Can C touch D ?
Can B touch D ?
Can A touch D ?
What about in the reverse ?
I understand respect, consent and generally courtesy but I’m trying to point out why these situations arise. Sometimes that consent can be implied by certain behaviours towards the couple as a single entity.
"
Yes yes yes and yes, consent verbally in all situations. If you were to do this in the clubs we visit and have to say oops, once we report your assault you will then be shown the door and most probably never allowed in again. If a club did not condemn your behavior then that makes the club as bad as the person not asking permission and we would give a club like that a wide birth. To add we have seen people asked to leave (thrown out) clubs for such despicable behavior |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Our various experiences involving 3,4,5other people etc in the bedroom.. Have happened & progressed sort of in the moment, organically naturally without any pre-discussed agenda.
Can actually see the advantages of everyone being aware of boundaries etc but who does what, to whom, in what order, sounds like it could be a bit of a downer. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Our various experiences involving 3,4,5other people etc in the bedroom.. Have happened & progressed sort of in the moment, organically naturally without any pre-discussed agenda.
Can actually see the advantages of everyone being aware of boundaries etc but who does what, to whom, in what order, sounds like it could be a bit of a downer. "
I get that sometimes chat doesn't happen first, but if you don't know boundaries in advance, but don't you just do what you'd do when you have sex with anyone for the first time?
How would you get consent in those situations? Eye contact? Facial expressions? Body language cues? Dirty talk/questions? It's just the same, no? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yup, all those body language indicators and simply saying the: likes/dislikes/do's/donts/etcas its goes along.
Someone might say 'Hey let's "xyz" if responses are along the lines of either 'Cmon then'..or.. 'no thanks' then it just carries on accordingly..
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"These comments of sexual assault in that given situation are ridiculous. If my wife was allowed to touch without asking I could reasonably assume I could too.
Thought you might appreciate a definition:
What is sexual assault?
Sexual assault happens when someone touches another person in a sexual manner without their consent. Or when someone makes another person take part in a sexual activity with them without that person's consent. It includes unwanted kissing and sexual touching.
I totally understand that, but you are failing to recognise the situation.
I have never been, and don’t expect to be in a situation where we, as a couple start playing with an other couple and alI the parties have to ask specific permissions. It is reasonable to assume a green light is given from one couple to another when 2 people of the group start engaging.
That’s the point I’m trying to make. Claiming sexual assault in that situation is just crazy. At best a simple oops would be more the case. If that happened to us we would both apologise for the misunderstanding and both leave.
Has any other couples been in a situation where 4 sets of permissions have been asked ? You can potentially make that 8 if you meet people that want to touch but not be touched!
Can A touch B?
Can C touch D ?
Can B touch D ?
Can A touch D ?
What about in the reverse ?
I understand respect, consent and generally courtesy but I’m trying to point out why these situations arise. Sometimes that consent can be implied by certain behaviours towards the couple as a single entity.
"
We don’t think you understand consent. Implied consent is not consent. Implied consent relies on your interpretation of a situation at the time, without you being fully aware of the facts. It’s basically a guess. And nobody should be guessing when it comes to consent. Freely given, fully informed consent is consent.
We ALWAYS ask for consent before we do anything - and we’d never play with anybody who didn’t ask (unless we gave consent openly without them having to ask.) If we’re chatting to a couple and we feel there’s a connection, we’ll ask them what their boundaries are before we ask them to play. That way we all know where we stand so there are no ‘mistakes’ in the heat of the moment.
Usually it’s not as involved as
Can A touch B?
Can C touch D ?
Can B touch D ?
Can A touch D ?
We often say (and hear) anything except X, Y and Z. If people aren’t 100% sure (usually with newbies), then we’ll ask questions to help them express their boundaries. E.g. Can we kiss you? Do you full-swap? How do you feeling about spanking? Do you enjoy oral from women? What don’t you want to do?
Our most recent meet Mrs gave another guy consent to give her oral and use a vibrator on her. Mr asked the guys wife for consent to touch her - even though the guy was already playing with Mrs. just because Mrs+guy was happening, doesn’t mean that Mr+guy’s wife would happen. You cannot assume anything. |
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"At the risk of being flamed here I would say by laying down next to another couple or allowing that to happen is seen pretty much as an invitation.
Of course it’s polite to ask but Leaving a door open, allowing a couple to lay with you and then allowing interaction between some parties is pretty much a green light in our eyes.
Like you said, It just happens with the women….so don’t chastise a guy for joining in having seen that! People aren’t mind readers."
I disagree. With a previous partner. We played asking side others and on open beds numerous times. We never joined in with others. We had plenty of offers. |
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"The choice of space may indicate more chance of openess to join in. But it's never a free for all. Just because people generally play in a group/open space with the intention of others joining doesn't mean those other include you. You always need to check consent. Consent doesn't have to be verbal, quite often it's not. But you need to check it's a 100% ok and if your not 100% sure, check again even if you have to specially verbalise it. Same goes for if your wanting move into something more intimate. For example you may have permission to touch and happily touching away but that shouldn't be taken as implied consent for penetration."
Totally this. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yup, all those body language indicators and simply saying the: likes/dislikes/do's/donts/etcas its goes along.
Someone might say 'Hey let's "xyz" if responses are along the lines of either 'Cmon then'..or.. 'no thanks' then it just carries on accordingly..
"
Ah so if I have this right, you are checking in and getting consent feedback along the way in group situations? You just didnt have a group discussion prior to play? |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
PDI 12-26th Nov 24 |
"These comments of sexual assault in that given situation are ridiculous. If my wife was allowed to touch without asking I could reasonably assume I could too.
Thought you might appreciate a definition:
What is sexual assault?
Sexual assault happens when someone touches another person in a sexual manner without their consent. Or when someone makes another person take part in a sexual activity with them without that person's consent. It includes unwanted kissing and sexual touching.
I totally understand that, but you are failing to recognise the situation.
I have never been, and don’t expect to be in a situation where we, as a couple start playing with an other couple and alI the parties have to ask specific permissions. It is reasonable to assume a green light is given from one couple to another when 2 people of the group start engaging.
That’s the point I’m trying to make. Claiming sexual assault in that situation is just crazy. At best a simple oops would be more the case. If that happened to us we would both apologise for the misunderstanding and both leave.
Has any other couples been in a situation where 4 sets of permissions have been asked ? You can potentially make that 8 if you meet people that want to touch but not be touched!
Can A touch B?
Can C touch D ?
Can B touch D ?
Can A touch D ?
What about in the reverse ?
I understand respect, consent and generally courtesy but I’m trying to point out why these situations arise. Sometimes that consent can be implied by certain behaviours towards the couple as a single entity.
"
So you think if my wife is happy for your wife to suck her nipples then you're entitled to fuck her ?
No, any person in a group wanting to touch another in a group should get a clear and positive signal. Usually for us that's a gentle rub of a hand or arm and wait for a reaction. Just because I've been involved in soft play with another person I wouldn't just fuck them without asking first ... I wouldn't even fuck my wife without her consent! |
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"These comments of sexual assault in that given situation are ridiculous. If my wife was allowed to touch without asking I could reasonably assume I could too.
Thought you might appreciate a definition:
What is sexual assault?
Sexual assault happens when someone touches another person in a sexual manner without their consent. Or when someone makes another person take part in a sexual activity with them without that person's consent. It includes unwanted kissing and sexual touching.
I totally understand that, but you are failing to recognise the situation.
I have never been, and don’t expect to be in a situation where we, as a couple start playing with an other couple and alI the parties have to ask specific permissions. It is reasonable to assume a green light is given from one couple to another when 2 people of the group start engaging.
That’s the point I’m trying to make. Claiming sexual assault in that situation is just crazy. At best a simple oops would be more the case. If that happened to us we would both apologise for the misunderstanding and both leave.
Has any other couples been in a situation where 4 sets of permissions have been asked ? You can potentially make that 8 if you meet people that want to touch but not be touched!
Can A touch B?
Can C touch D ?
Can B touch D ?
Can A touch D ?
What about in the reverse ?
I understand respect, consent and generally courtesy but I’m trying to point out why these situations arise. Sometimes that consent can be implied by certain behaviours towards the couple as a single entity.
So you think if my wife is happy for your wife to suck her nipples then you're entitled to fuck her ?
No, any person in a group wanting to touch another in a group should get a clear and positive signal. Usually for us that's a gentle rub of a hand or arm and wait for a reaction. Just because I've been involved in soft play with another person I wouldn't just fuck them without asking first ... I wouldn't even fuck my wife without her consent!"
Please can you quote my words where I said that please ? Another person simply making up statements for dramatic purposes. Jesus wept |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"These comments of sexual assault in that given situation are ridiculous. If my wife was allowed to touch without asking I could reasonably assume I could too.
Thought you might appreciate a definition:
What is sexual assault?
Sexual assault happens when someone touches another person in a sexual manner without their consent. Or when someone makes another person take part in a sexual activity with them without that person's consent. It includes unwanted kissing and sexual touching.
I totally understand that, but you are failing to recognise the situation.
I have never been, and don’t expect to be in a situation where we, as a couple start playing with an other couple and alI the parties have to ask specific permissions. It is reasonable to assume a green light is given from one couple to another when 2 people of the group start engaging.
That’s the point I’m trying to make. Claiming sexual assault in that situation is just crazy. At best a simple oops would be more the case. If that happened to us we would both apologise for the misunderstanding and both leave.
Has any other couples been in a situation where 4 sets of permissions have been asked ? You can potentially make that 8 if you meet people that want to touch but not be touched!
Can A touch B?
Can C touch D ?
Can B touch D ?
Can A touch D ?
What about in the reverse ?
I understand respect, consent and generally courtesy but I’m trying to point out why these situations arise. Sometimes that consent can be implied by certain behaviours towards the couple as a single entity.
So you think if my wife is happy for your wife to suck her nipples then you're entitled to fuck her ?
No, any person in a group wanting to touch another in a group should get a clear and positive signal. Usually for us that's a gentle rub of a hand or arm and wait for a reaction. Just because I've been involved in soft play with another person I wouldn't just fuck them without asking first ... I wouldn't even fuck my wife without her consent!
Please can you quote my words where I said that please ? Another person simply making up statements for dramatic purposes. Jesus wept"
You said: At the risk of being flamed here I would say by laying down next to another couple or allowing that to happen is seen pretty much as an invitation.
Of course it’s polite to ask but Leaving a door open, allowing a couple to lay with you and then allowing interaction between some parties is pretty much a green light in our eyes. |
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"These comments of sexual assault in that given situation are ridiculous. If my wife was allowed to touch without asking I could reasonably assume I could too.
Thought you might appreciate a definition:
What is sexual assault?
Sexual assault happens when someone touches another person in a sexual manner without their consent. Or when someone makes another person take part in a sexual activity with them without that person's consent. It includes unwanted kissing and sexual touching.
I totally understand that, but you are failing to recognise the situation.
I have never been, and don’t expect to be in a situation where we, as a couple start playing with an other couple and alI the parties have to ask specific permissions. It is reasonable to assume a green light is given from one couple to another when 2 people of the group start engaging.
That’s the point I’m trying to make. Claiming sexual assault in that situation is just crazy. At best a simple oops would be more the case. If that happened to us we would both apologise for the misunderstanding and both leave.
Has any other couples been in a situation where 4 sets of permissions have been asked ? You can potentially make that 8 if you meet people that want to touch but not be touched!
Can A touch B?
Can C touch D ?
Can B touch D ?
Can A touch D ?
What about in the reverse ?
I understand respect, consent and generally courtesy but I’m trying to point out why these situations arise. Sometimes that consent can be implied by certain behaviours towards the couple as a single entity.
So you think if my wife is happy for your wife to suck her nipples then you're entitled to fuck her ?
No, any person in a group wanting to touch another in a group should get a clear and positive signal. Usually for us that's a gentle rub of a hand or arm and wait for a reaction. Just because I've been involved in soft play with another person I wouldn't just fuck them without asking first ... I wouldn't even fuck my wife without her consent!
Please can you quote my words where I said that please ? Another person simply making up statements for dramatic purposes. Jesus wept
You said: At the risk of being flamed here I would say by laying down next to another couple or allowing that to happen is seen pretty much as an invitation.
Of course it’s polite to ask but Leaving a door open, allowing a couple to lay with you and then allowing interaction between some parties is pretty much a green light in our eyes."
That’s correct . I am responding to the OP who is asking around males simply touching the female.
The comment above has exaggerated that, for the drama I suspect, to fucking his wife. I would like them to quote where I said anything about an expectation to fuck the wife.
As already affirmed by many a simple touch is sometimes an accepted sign of consent, this is what I am referring to but some people can’t simply understand that.
We don’t expect to fuck anyone and I have never said that.
For the last time I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that once such close proximity has been allowed and once two people of a foursome have engaged the others can a assume a green light to join in. That’s where that initial touch will happen that the OP is referring to.
Of course if a no was given at that point I’m pretty sure we would both get up and leave. But how does anyone expect the non verbal cues to take place with trying ??
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"These comments of sexual assault in that given situation are ridiculous. If my wife was allowed to touch without asking I could reasonably assume I could too.
Thought you might appreciate a definition:
What is sexual assault?
Sexual assault happens when someone touches another person in a sexual manner without their consent. Or when someone makes another person take part in a sexual activity with them without that person's consent. It includes unwanted kissing and sexual touching.
I totally understand that, but you are failing to recognise the situation.
I have never been, and don’t expect to be in a situation where we, as a couple start playing with an other couple and alI the parties have to ask specific permissions. It is reasonable to assume a green light is given from one couple to another when 2 people of the group start engaging.
That’s the point I’m trying to make. Claiming sexual assault in that situation is just crazy. At best a simple oops would be more the case. If that happened to us we would both apologise for the misunderstanding and both leave.
Has any other couples been in a situation where 4 sets of permissions have been asked ? You can potentially make that 8 if you meet people that want to touch but not be touched!
Can A touch B?
Can C touch D ?
Can B touch D ?
Can A touch D ?
What about in the reverse ?
I understand respect, consent and generally courtesy but I’m trying to point out why these situations arise. Sometimes that consent can be implied by certain behaviours towards the couple as a single entity.
So you think if my wife is happy for your wife to suck her nipples then you're entitled to fuck her ?
No, any person in a group wanting to touch another in a group should get a clear and positive signal. Usually for us that's a gentle rub of a hand or arm and wait for a reaction. Just because I've been involved in soft play with another person I wouldn't just fuck them without asking first ... I wouldn't even fuck my wife without her consent!
Please can you quote my words where I said that please ? Another person simply making up statements for dramatic purposes. Jesus wept
You said: At the risk of being flamed here I would say by laying down next to another couple or allowing that to happen is seen pretty much as an invitation.
Of course it’s polite to ask but Leaving a door open, allowing a couple to lay with you and then allowing interaction between some parties is pretty much a green light in our eyes."
Conscent always people should be communicating all the time verbal and non verbal.
However reading this thread some couples only play together they come as a package or not at all. So when in a room with another couple before any play between the ladies (for example) starts they need to communicate this up front as those types of couples wouldn't be happy if another couple started play with their female but then the male wasnt invited.
If your a couple only looking for a female to join you then look for just that a single female. If you go into a play room with another couple playing before any interaction make sure you state you only play with other females.
I have seen this cause issues in clubs when it's not been made clear up front.
Some couples will take an approach from another couple even if it starts as fem to fem as invite to couple to couple play. At the end of the day the couple your approaching isn't a single female.
Some couples will see an approach by another couple who just want your female as an insult as well.
It all goes back to communicate fully before engaging.
KJ
|
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By *elkieWoman
over a year ago
Durham |
"These comments of sexual assault in that given situation are ridiculous. If my wife was allowed to touch without asking I could reasonably assume I could too.
Thought you might appreciate a definition:
What is sexual assault?
Sexual assault happens when someone touches another person in a sexual manner without their consent. Or when someone makes another person take part in a sexual activity with them without that person's consent. It includes unwanted kissing and sexual touching.
I totally understand that, but you are failing to recognise the situation.
I have never been, and don’t expect to be in a situation where we, as a couple start playing with an other couple and alI the parties have to ask specific permissions. It is reasonable to assume a green light is given from one couple to another when 2 people of the group start engaging.
That’s the point I’m trying to make. Claiming sexual assault in that situation is just crazy. At best a simple oops would be more the case. If that happened to us we would both apologise for the misunderstanding and both leave.
Has any other couples been in a situation where 4 sets of permissions have been asked ? You can potentially make that 8 if you meet people that want to touch but not be touched!
Can A touch B?
Can C touch D ?
Can B touch D ?
Can A touch D ?
What about in the reverse ?
I understand respect, consent and generally courtesy but I’m trying to point out why these situations arise. Sometimes that consent can be implied by certain behaviours towards the couple as a single entity.
So you think if my wife is happy for your wife to suck her nipples then you're entitled to fuck her ?
No, any person in a group wanting to touch another in a group should get a clear and positive signal. Usually for us that's a gentle rub of a hand or arm and wait for a reaction. Just because I've been involved in soft play with another person I wouldn't just fuck them without asking first ... I wouldn't even fuck my wife without her consent!
Please can you quote my words where I said that please ? Another person simply making up statements for dramatic purposes. Jesus wept
You said: At the risk of being flamed here I would say by laying down next to another couple or allowing that to happen is seen pretty much as an invitation.
Of course it’s polite to ask but Leaving a door open, allowing a couple to lay with you and then allowing interaction between some parties is pretty much a green light in our eyes.
That’s correct . I am responding to the OP who is asking around males simply touching the female.
The comment above has exaggerated that, for the drama I suspect, to fucking his wife. I would like them to quote where I said anything about an expectation to fuck the wife.
As already affirmed by many a simple touch is sometimes an accepted sign of consent, this is what I am referring to but some people can’t simply understand that.
We don’t expect to fuck anyone and I have never said that.
For the last time I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that once such close proximity has been allowed and once two people of a foursome have engaged the others can a assume a green light to join in. That’s where that initial touch will happen that the OP is referring to.
Of course if a no was given at that point I’m pretty sure we would both get up and leave. But how does anyone expect the non verbal cues to take place with trying ??
"
Really? Because I’m quite happy to sit back and watch if my partner’s engaged in some fun and my participation isn’t wanted. He consented to that activity, I’m not going to stop him. That would be really selfish.
And “are you happy just watching, or can I touch you?” is a pretty simple sentence. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Well the ops wife didnt care to clarify the rules of the couple whos wife she touched.
Some couples will only play as a couple and some will play individually. She should have clarified verbally prior, especially if the other couple were currently being intimate. What she did could be construed as i want to join in and not i want to take over.
I think both parties are at fault in the op scenario |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"These comments of sexual assault in that given situation are ridiculous. If my wife was allowed to touch without asking I could reasonably assume I could too.
Thought you might appreciate a definition:
What is sexual assault?
Sexual assault happens when someone touches another person in a sexual manner without their consent. Or when someone makes another person take part in a sexual activity with them without that person's consent. It includes unwanted kissing and sexual touching.
I totally understand that, but you are failing to recognise the situation.
I have never been, and don’t expect to be in a situation where we, as a couple start playing with an other couple and alI the parties have to ask specific permissions. It is reasonable to assume a green light is given from one couple to another when 2 people of the group start engaging.
That’s the point I’m trying to make. Claiming sexual assault in that situation is just crazy. At best a simple oops would be more the case. If that happened to us we would both apologise for the misunderstanding and both leave.
Has any other couples been in a situation where 4 sets of permissions have been asked ? You can potentially make that 8 if you meet people that want to touch but not be touched!
Can A touch B?
Can C touch D ?
Can B touch D ?
Can A touch D ?
What about in the reverse ?
I understand respect, consent and generally courtesy but I’m trying to point out why these situations arise. Sometimes that consent can be implied by certain behaviours towards the couple as a single entity.
So you think if my wife is happy for your wife to suck her nipples then you're entitled to fuck her ?
No, any person in a group wanting to touch another in a group should get a clear and positive signal. Usually for us that's a gentle rub of a hand or arm and wait for a reaction. Just because I've been involved in soft play with another person I wouldn't just fuck them without asking first ... I wouldn't even fuck my wife without her consent!
Please can you quote my words where I said that please ? Another person simply making up statements for dramatic purposes. Jesus wept
You said: At the risk of being flamed here I would say by laying down next to another couple or allowing that to happen is seen pretty much as an invitation.
Of course it’s polite to ask but Leaving a door open, allowing a couple to lay with you and then allowing interaction between some parties is pretty much a green light in our eyes.
That’s correct . I am responding to the OP who is asking around males simply touching the female.
The comment above has exaggerated that, for the drama I suspect, to fucking his wife. I would like them to quote where I said anything about an expectation to fuck the wife.
As already affirmed by many a simple touch is sometimes an accepted sign of consent, this is what I am referring to but some people can’t simply understand that.
We don’t expect to fuck anyone and I have never said that.
For the last time I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that once such close proximity has been allowed and once two people of a foursome have engaged the others can a assume a green light to join in. That’s where that initial touch will happen that the OP is referring to.
Of course if a no was given at that point I’m pretty sure we would both get up and leave. But how does anyone expect the non verbal cues to take place with trying ??
Really? Because I’m quite happy to sit back and watch if my partner’s engaged in some fun and my participation isn’t wanted. He consented to that activity, I’m not going to stop him. That would be really selfish.
And “are you happy just watching, or can I touch you?” is a pretty simple sentence. "
Exactly I don’t get what’s so complicated about just asking? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yup, all those body language indicators and simply saying the: likes/dislikes/do's/donts/etcas its goes along.
Someone might say 'Hey let's "xyz" if responses are along the lines of either 'Cmon then'..or.. 'no thanks' then it just carries on accordingly..
Ah so if I have this right, you are checking in and getting consent feedback along the way in group situations? You just didnt have a group discussion prior to play? "
Yep. That's right. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"These comments of sexual assault in that given situation are ridiculous. If my wife was allowed to touch without asking I could reasonably assume I could too.
Thought you might appreciate a definition:
What is sexual assault?
Sexual assault happens when someone touches another person in a sexual manner without their consent. Or when someone makes another person take part in a sexual activity with them without that person's consent. It includes unwanted kissing and sexual touching.
I totally understand that, but you are failing to recognise the situation.
I have never been, and don’t expect to be in a situation where we, as a couple start playing with an other couple and alI the parties have to ask specific permissions. It is reasonable to assume a green light is given from one couple to another when 2 people of the group start engaging.
That’s the point I’m trying to make. Claiming sexual assault in that situation is just crazy. At best a simple oops would be more the case. If that happened to us we would both apologise for the misunderstanding and both leave.
Has any other couples been in a situation where 4 sets of permissions have been asked ? You can potentially make that 8 if you meet people that want to touch but not be touched!
Can A touch B?
Can C touch D ?
Can B touch D ?
Can A touch D ?
What about in the reverse ?
I understand respect, consent and generally courtesy but I’m trying to point out why these situations arise. Sometimes that consent can be implied by certain behaviours towards the couple as a single entity.
So you think if my wife is happy for your wife to suck her nipples then you're entitled to fuck her ?
No, any person in a group wanting to touch another in a group should get a clear and positive signal. Usually for us that's a gentle rub of a hand or arm and wait for a reaction. Just because I've been involved in soft play with another person I wouldn't just fuck them without asking first ... I wouldn't even fuck my wife without her consent!
Please can you quote my words where I said that please ? Another person simply making up statements for dramatic purposes. Jesus wept
You said: At the risk of being flamed here I would say by laying down next to another couple or allowing that to happen is seen pretty much as an invitation.
Of course it’s polite to ask but Leaving a door open, allowing a couple to lay with you and then allowing interaction between some parties is pretty much a green light in our eyes.
Conscent always people should be communicating all the time verbal and non verbal.
However reading this thread some couples only play together they come as a package or not at all. So when in a room with another couple before any play between the ladies (for example) starts they need to communicate this up front as those types of couples wouldn't be happy if another couple started play with their female but then the male wasnt invited.
If your a couple only looking for a female to join you then look for just that a single female. If you go into a play room with another couple playing before any interaction make sure you state you only play with other females.
I have seen this cause issues in clubs when it's not been made clear up front.
Some couples will take an approach from another couple even if it starts as fem to fem as invite to couple to couple play. At the end of the day the couple your approaching isn't a single female.
Some couples will see an approach by another couple who just want your female as an insult as well.
It all goes back to communicate fully before engaging.
KJ
"
This makes a lot of sense  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"These comments of sexual assault in that given situation are ridiculous. If my wife was allowed to touch without asking I could reasonably assume I could too.
Thought you might appreciate a definition:
What is sexual assault?
Sexual assault happens when someone touches another person in a sexual manner without their consent. Or when someone makes another person take part in a sexual activity with them without that person's consent. It includes unwanted kissing and sexual touching.
I totally understand that, but you are failing to recognise the situation.
I have never been, and don’t expect to be in a situation where we, as a couple start playing with an other couple and alI the parties have to ask specific permissions. It is reasonable to assume a green light is given from one couple to another when 2 people of the group start engaging.
That’s the point I’m trying to make. Claiming sexual assault in that situation is just crazy. At best a simple oops would be more the case. If that happened to us we would both apologise for the misunderstanding and both leave.
Has any other couples been in a situation where 4 sets of permissions have been asked ? You can potentially make that 8 if you meet people that want to touch but not be touched!
Can A touch B?
Can C touch D ?
Can B touch D ?
Can A touch D ?
What about in the reverse ?
I understand respect, consent and generally courtesy but I’m trying to point out why these situations arise. Sometimes that consent can be implied by certain behaviours towards the couple as a single entity.
So you think if my wife is happy for your wife to suck her nipples then you're entitled to fuck her ?
No, any person in a group wanting to touch another in a group should get a clear and positive signal. Usually for us that's a gentle rub of a hand or arm and wait for a reaction. Just because I've been involved in soft play with another person I wouldn't just fuck them without asking first ... I wouldn't even fuck my wife without her consent!
Please can you quote my words where I said that please ? Another person simply making up statements for dramatic purposes. Jesus wept
You said: At the risk of being flamed here I would say by laying down next to another couple or allowing that to happen is seen pretty much as an invitation.
Of course it’s polite to ask but Leaving a door open, allowing a couple to lay with you and then allowing interaction between some parties is pretty much a green light in our eyes.
That’s correct . I am responding to the OP who is asking around males simply touching the female.
The comment above has exaggerated that, for the drama I suspect, to fucking his wife. I would like them to quote where I said anything about an expectation to fuck the wife.
As already affirmed by many a simple touch is sometimes an accepted sign of consent, this is what I am referring to but some people can’t simply understand that.
We don’t expect to fuck anyone and I have never said that.
For the last time I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that once such close proximity has been allowed and once two people of a foursome have engaged the others can a assume a green light to join in. That’s where that initial touch will happen that the OP is referring to.
Of course if a no was given at that point I’m pretty sure we would both get up and leave. But how does anyone expect the non verbal cues to take place with trying ??
"
The OP was talking about touching without permission, but your comment was that touch between 2 of the 4 is green light for an initial touch from the other 2 of the 4, & thats where the issue comes in. Is that touch, as the op suggests, going in for a feel & seeing what happens, or a hand or more innocent body part? Can you say with certainty that anywhere is really innocent/ok without permission or knowing that person? That's why getting consent takes seconds & prevents any assumptions or conflict in play.
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Personally play should stop and a conversation be had with all parties clearly beforehand.
If I nodded to someone's hubby what have I consented to exactly? Is he going to fuck my partner with my approval or me? Because I nodded does that mean he can kiss me? Does he expect to eat me out or have anal included in the nod? It's difficult because I can see that on the face of it reading body language/the room it may have appeared as a go ahead but I always vote for a proper detailed convo of dos/don'ts etc |
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