FabSwingers.com > Forums > Swinging Support and Advice > Young lad on fab
Young lad on fab
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I’m a young lad on here and I’ve just not had much luck at all. Being young seems to be a big no for a lot of people. Is there anything I can do to either improve my profile that could maybe make me more appealing? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Just be yourself and if you get a knock back don’t let it upset you as with 30,000+ people on here there should in theory be lots of good matches for everyone but people can be very fussy (like my wife) but you will get meets.
Try posting on the forums.
Or when the world is open again going to a club and keep going til you are a known face.
Have faith in yourself and best of luck.
Stay frosty out there.
T |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Search mens profiles to see what you're up against. Then revisit your bio. If you think it's the best you can do that's cool, but pretty sure you can do better than that. |
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By *anxmann55Man
over a year ago
Douglas Isle of man....... |
"I’m a young lad on here and I’ve just not had much luck at all. Being young seems to be a big no for a lot of people. Is there anything I can do to either improve my profile that could maybe make me more appealing? "
yes look out some swinging clubs same room or opposite room u choose u need 2be noticed your in your prime should at it like a rabbit....wink
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I think the over 60s and the under 25s do struggle a little but be patient cos some people do like younger and in my case older...
Dont have too many expectations and see what comes your way...Hard not too take rejection personally, but it's a fact of life that we all have to deal with..Good luck |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yeah think that’s the same problem with me also, I mean it’s down to preference but still and I also want someone to verify me as it seems a lot of women will not believe you are real |
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Hello OP,
Unfortunately your a small fish in a big pond, and in a fairly remote area in swinging terms. This, coupled with your age, will make your time on here a little more difficult. To make the best possible impression you might want to add some different pics, perhaps even a face pic.
Good luck  |
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By *lan157Man
over a year ago
a village near Haywards Heath in East Sussex |
"We're on lockdown, how much luck do you expect? "
People on fab do discuss what arrangements they will make post lockdown. The world has not stopped turning. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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its a numbers game, men far out number anyone else on here, so you need to stand out, thats just the way it is, and also alot of people think of swinging as a thing that couples do, not singles, not all but alot. |
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By *jonesMan
over a year ago
Plymouth |
Mate, get down the pub and chat and flirt with the ladies, do fab as well but it's a marathon and hard work at the beginning ...dont get sucked into it..would be my advice...and to make progress go to an organised social and meet folks..
Good luck |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We're on lockdown, how much luck do you expect?
People on fab do discuss what arrangements they will make post lockdown. The world has not stopped turning. "
But we are in unexpected times, you can talk about possibly meeting but who knows when, and if the person will actually meet.
Talking about it and actually going ahead with it are two very different things. I’m sure many of us have learned that!  |
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
"We're on lockdown, how much luck do you expect?
People on fab do discuss what arrangements they will make post lockdown. The world has not stopped turning.
But we are in unexpected times, you can talk about possibly meeting but who knows when, and if the person will actually meet.
Talking about it and actually going ahead with it are two very different things. I’m sure many of us have learned that! "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But we are in unexpected times, you can talk about possibly meeting but who knows when, and if the person will actually meet.
Talking about it and actually going ahead with it are two very different things. I’m sure many of us have learned that! "
You can say that again haha!
Accepting Fab is a supplement to your sex life and not a replacement is the best advice I can give |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"its a numbers game, men far out number anyone else on here, so you need to stand out, thats just the way it is, and also alot of people think of swinging as a thing that couples do, not singles, not all but alot."
I never understood that. Why there are more men than women here? |
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"its a numbers game, men far out number anyone else on here, so you need to stand out, thats just the way it is, and also alot of people think of swinging as a thing that couples do, not singles, not all but alot.
I never understood that. Why there are more men than women here? "
Because there are far more men than women interested in recreational sex. |
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"its a numbers game, men far out number anyone else on here, so you need to stand out, thats just the way it is, and also alot of people think of swinging as a thing that couples do, not singles, not all but alot.
I never understood that. Why there are more men than women here?
Because there are far more men than women interested in recreational sex. "
I doubt that.
But most women who fancy a simple no strings shag don't need to resort to a website to find one.
There's plenty of casual sex going on all the time via bars, social media and the many 'dating' sites out there. I often suspect a sizeable proportion of single men who join here are doing so as a last resort with the misconception that it'll be easy pickings.
Not all of course, but many.
A |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"its a numbers game, men far out number anyone else on here, so you need to stand out, thats just the way it is, and also alot of people think of swinging as a thing that couples do, not singles, not all but alot.
I never understood that. Why there are more men than women here?
Because there are far more men than women interested in recreational sex.
I doubt that.
But most women who fancy a simple no strings shag don't need to resort to a website to find one.
There's plenty of casual sex going on all the time via bars, social media and the many 'dating' sites out there. I often suspect a sizeable proportion of single men who join here are doing so as a last resort with the misconception that it'll be easy pickings.
Not all of course, but many.
A"
Wouldn’t it be easier though for women to use a website though? The amount of guys means they’re guaranteed to find someone they’re looking for. It’s pretty much the same on social media and other dating sites too with more guys than women.
True but I’m sure there are also a few women who also use it as a last resort too and obviously have more luck.
Nope and they quickly find out, it’s not. In fact, I’d say it’s harder because do the competition out there. |
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"I’m a young lad on here and I’ve just not had much luck at all. Being young seems to be a big no for a lot of people. Is there anything I can do to either improve my profile that could maybe make me more appealing? "
Have you tried ageing at all over the last few weeks? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"its a numbers game, men far out number anyone else on here, so you need to stand out, thats just the way it is, and also alot of people think of swinging as a thing that couples do, not singles, not all but alot.
I never understood that. Why there are more men than women here?
Because there are far more men than women interested in recreational sex.
I doubt that.
But most women who fancy a simple no strings shag don't need to resort to a website to find one.
There's plenty of casual sex going on all the time via bars, social media and the many 'dating' sites out there. I often suspect a sizeable proportion of single men who join here are doing so as a last resort with the misconception that it'll be easy pickings.
Not all of course, but many.
A"
You’re right that most women could find NSA sex in a club or similar.
But many of us aren’t interested in doing so, and aren’t interested in NSA, but rather something regular with the same person, and something a bit different to vanilla sex. Harder to find in bars, easier to find on websites in my experience, specifically swinger sites or Fet rather than Tinder.
Besides, not everyone gets enjoyment out of finding sex in clubs etc. |
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By *mberWoman
over a year ago
Preston |
"its a numbers game, men far out number anyone else on here, so you need to stand out, thats just the way it is, and also alot of people think of swinging as a thing that couples do, not singles, not all but alot.
I never understood that. Why there are more men than women here?
Because there are far more men than women interested in recreational sex.
I doubt that.
But most women who fancy a simple no strings shag don't need to resort to a website to find one.
There's plenty of casual sex going on all the time via bars, social media and the many 'dating' sites out there. I often suspect a sizeable proportion of single men who join here are doing so as a last resort with the misconception that it'll be easy pickings.
Not all of course, but many.
A
Wouldn’t it be easier though for women to use a website though? The amount of guys means they’re guaranteed to find someone they’re looking for. It’s pretty much the same on social media and other dating sites too with more guys than women.
True but I’m sure there are also a few women who also use it as a last resort too and obviously have more luck.
Nope and they quickly find out, it’s not. In fact, I’d say it’s harder because do the competition out there."
Because years and years of the patriarchy has told women that we should be good girls and that we are dirty if we want sex. And if we want NSA sex then we are a disgrace.
And that's what we're told growing up "keep your legs closed" "men like nice girls" blah blah blah of you like sex you're a slag unless you're a man you're a stud. So as a woman you made to be confident enough to raise your head above the parapet of societal expectation and be able to say "hi I want to do this" as then be able to take the shit that comes along with that.
But things are changing, slowly. Women do feel more able to own their sexuality and more men are accepting of it.
But only recently someone made a comment on here that said something like "my grandad told me women are either a good shag or a good wife but can't be both"
Loads of blokes commented along the lines of 'true that' the women all asked why they couldn't be both.
Nobody answered them.
Because we can be both. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"its a numbers game, men far out number anyone else on here, so you need to stand out, thats just the way it is, and also alot of people think of swinging as a thing that couples do, not singles, not all but alot.
I never understood that. Why there are more men than women here?
Because there are far more men than women interested in recreational sex.
I doubt that.
But most women who fancy a simple no strings shag don't need to resort to a website to find one.
There's plenty of casual sex going on all the time via bars, social media and the many 'dating' sites out there. I often suspect a sizeable proportion of single men who join here are doing so as a last resort with the misconception that it'll be easy pickings.
Not all of course, but many.
A
You’re right that most women could find NSA sex in a club or similar.
But many of us aren’t interested in doing so, and aren’t interested in NSA, but rather something regular with the same person, and something a bit different to vanilla sex. Harder to find in bars, easier to find on websites in my experience, specifically swinger sites or Fet rather than Tinder.
Besides, not everyone gets enjoyment out of finding sex in clubs etc. "
That’s exactly why I’m here. I can’t stand going to clubs because you’re d*unk or a few drinks and that doesn’t reflect the sober you.
Love to find someone I could meet more than once, rather than NSA. They could be cheating on someone or the sex could be great and I’d wanna do it again. Especially exploring your kinks too. Easier to tell people here than at a club |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"its a numbers game, men far out number anyone else on here, so you need to stand out, thats just the way it is, and also alot of people think of swinging as a thing that couples do, not singles, not all but alot.
I never understood that. Why there are more men than women here?
Because there are far more men than women interested in recreational sex.
I doubt that.
But most women who fancy a simple no strings shag don't need to resort to a website to find one.
There's plenty of casual sex going on all the time via bars, social media and the many 'dating' sites out there. I often suspect a sizeable proportion of single men who join here are doing so as a last resort with the misconception that it'll be easy pickings.
Not all of course, but many.
A
Wouldn’t it be easier though for women to use a website though? The amount of guys means they’re guaranteed to find someone they’re looking for. It’s pretty much the same on social media and other dating sites too with more guys than women.
True but I’m sure there are also a few women who also use it as a last resort too and obviously have more luck.
Nope and they quickly find out, it’s not. In fact, I’d say it’s harder because do the competition out there.
Because years and years of the patriarchy has told women that we should be good girls and that we are dirty if we want sex. And if we want NSA sex then we are a disgrace.
And that's what we're told growing up "keep your legs closed" "men like nice girls" blah blah blah of you like sex you're a slag unless you're a man you're a stud. So as a woman you made to be confident enough to raise your head above the parapet of societal expectation and be able to say "hi I want to do this" as then be able to take the shit that comes along with that.
But things are changing, slowly. Women do feel more able to own their sexuality and more men are accepting of it.
But only recently someone made a comment on here that said something like "my grandad told me women are either a good shag or a good wife but can't be both"
Loads of blokes commented along the lines of 'true that' the women all asked why they couldn't be both.
Nobody answered them.
Because we can be both."
Yeah true. Guys who have NSA are praised but women are shunned and insulted for it, which is a shame. Im glad that times are changing and more women are free to do what makes them happy, not told what to do by others.
True. That’s just incredibly outdated and you only have to look here to see that’s clearly not true. You got wives, couples and even single women having great sex.
The ones who do have the confidence and be accepting on their sexuality have all the control, especially on here. I wish that more women would see that it’s okay to have sex and you’re not a slut for enjoying it. |
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"I’m a young lad on here and I’ve just not had much luck at all. Being young seems to be a big no for a lot of people. Is there anything I can do to either improve my profile that could maybe make me more appealing? "
More appealing photos would help.... As i love a younger man. Younger the better  |
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A woman has to break out of that good girl nice girl Disney bullshit we're all spoon fed as little girls and embrace our inner minx. Men dont have to deal with that. A man is a player and applauded a woman is slut shamed by society at large. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A woman has to break out of that good girl nice girl Disney bullshit we're all spoon fed as little girls and embrace our inner minx. Men dont have to deal with that. A man is a player and applauded a woman is slut shamed by society at large."
Then maybe those women should just come on here. See how many messages they get compared to the “players” and how slut shaming isn’t tolerated on here, if they wanna get anywhere. |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"A woman has to break out of that good girl nice girl Disney bullshit we're all spoon fed as little girls and embrace our inner minx. Men dont have to deal with that. A man is a player and applauded a woman is slut shamed by society at large."
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By *mberWoman
over a year ago
Preston |
"A woman has to break out of that good girl nice girl Disney bullshit we're all spoon fed as little girls and embrace our inner minx. Men dont have to deal with that. A man is a player and applauded a woman is slut shamed by society at large.
Then maybe those women should just come on here. See how many messages they get compared to the “players” and how slut shaming isn’t tolerated on here, if they wanna get anywhere. "
Slut shaming might not be tolerated but there are still some very outdated views as I mentioned in my earlier post. Until more people (men) recognise this and call it out then women will continue to feel like they're not allowed to be who they want to be. |
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"I’m a young lad on here and I’ve just not had much luck at all. Being young seems to be a big no for a lot of people. Is there anything I can do to either improve my profile that could maybe make me more appealing? "
A lot of women/couples feel uncomfortable meeting a guy who is young enough to be their son.
However not all women/couples will not meet a young guy.
Some women and couples only want to meet young guys.
Search fab and look for people near you looking for young guys. There may not be loads but their will be some. |
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"its a numbers game, men far out number anyone else on here, so you need to stand out, thats just the way it is, and also alot of people think of swinging as a thing that couples do, not singles, not all but alot.
I never understood that. Why there are more men than women here?
Because there are far more men than women interested in recreational sex.
I doubt that.
But most women who fancy a simple no strings shag don't need to resort to a website to find one.
There's plenty of casual sex going on all the time via bars, social media and the many 'dating' sites out there. I often suspect a sizeable proportion of single men who join here are doing so as a last resort with the misconception that it'll be easy pickings.
Not all of course, but many.
A
Wouldn’t it be easier though for women to use a website though? The amount of guys means they’re guaranteed to find someone they’re looking for. It’s pretty much the same on social media and other dating sites too with more guys than women.
True but I’m sure there are also a few women who also use it as a last resort too and obviously have more luck.
Nope and they quickly find out, it’s not. In fact, I’d say it’s harder because do the competition out there.
Because years and years of the patriarchy has told women that we should be good girls and that we are dirty if we want sex. And if we want NSA sex then we are a disgrace.
And that's what we're told growing up "keep your legs closed" "men like nice girls" blah blah blah of you like sex you're a slag unless you're a man you're a stud. So as a woman you made to be confident enough to raise your head above the parapet of societal expectation and be able to say "hi I want to do this" as then be able to take the shit that comes along with that.
But things are changing, slowly. Women do feel more able to own their sexuality and more men are accepting of it.
But only recently someone made a comment on here that said something like "my grandad told me women are either a good shag or a good wife but can't be both"
Loads of blokes commented along the lines of 'true that' the women all asked why they couldn't be both.
Nobody answered them.
Because we can be both."
At the risk of being called a white knight well said.
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"A woman has to break out of that good girl nice girl Disney bullshit we're all spoon fed as little girls and embrace our inner minx. Men dont have to deal with that. A man is a player and applauded a woman is slut shamed by society at large.
Then maybe those women should just come on here. See how many messages they get compared to the “players” and how slut shaming isn’t tolerated on here, if they wanna get anywhere. "
I love that you think slut-shaming isn’t tolerated here, and I don’t know, maybe it isn’t on the forums. But sadly, in messages, I’ve been slut-shamed more in 10 months on here than in the entire rest of my life. |
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By *mberWoman
over a year ago
Preston |
"
At the risk of being called a white knight well said.
"
Thanks. I don't think that makes you a white knight. Although I don't go for labels.
Is it someone who's so PC that it's painful? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A woman has to break out of that good girl nice girl Disney bullshit we're all spoon fed as little girls and embrace our inner minx. Men dont have to deal with that. A man is a player and applauded a woman is slut shamed by society at large.
Then maybe those women should just come on here. See how many messages they get compared to the “players” and how slut shaming isn’t tolerated on here, if they wanna get anywhere.
I love that you think slut-shaming isn’t tolerated here, and I don’t know, maybe it isn’t on the forums. But sadly, in messages, I’ve been slut-shamed more in 10 months on here than in the entire rest of my life."
Is it just older guys who say it or is it everyone? Either way, I’m sorry to hear that happened to you and not everyone is like that and those people like that just drag everyone else down. I guess they don’t understand the amount of messages you get and that you can’t respond to everyone |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A woman has to break out of that good girl nice girl Disney bullshit we're all spoon fed as little girls and embrace our inner minx. Men dont have to deal with that. A man is a player and applauded a woman is slut shamed by society at large.
Then maybe those women should just come on here. See how many messages they get compared to the “players” and how slut shaming isn’t tolerated on here, if they wanna get anywhere.
Slut shaming might not be tolerated but there are still some very outdated views as I mentioned in my earlier post. Until more people (men) recognise this and call it out then women will continue to feel like they're not allowed to be who they want to be."
I understand and it’s shame that they have those cos everyone should be able to be who they want without judgment.
The other big problem is that guys just need to stop spam messaging women. It doesn’t work because women end up getting a lot of messages and guys get a low chance of a reply. Then they get mad because they think you owe them a reply. |
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"I love that you think slut-shaming isn’t tolerated here, and I don’t know, maybe it isn’t on the forums. But sadly, in messages, I’ve been slut-shamed more in 10 months on here than in the entire rest of my life.
Is it just older guys who say it or is it everyone? Either way, I’m sorry to hear that happened to you and not everyone is like that and those people like that just drag everyone else down. I guess they don’t understand the amount of messages you get and that you can’t respond to everyone "
It’s mainly guys but I’ve had it off a woman as well believe it or not (she said I was “too into the party side” and had probably caught something). And it’s usually men who’ve never messaged me before - they like to send something insulting then block me so I can’t respond. I don’t know why, I guess they’re bitter at women in general on here because they can’t get meets or something. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I love that you think slut-shaming isn’t tolerated here, and I don’t know, maybe it isn’t on the forums. But sadly, in messages, I’ve been slut-shamed more in 10 months on here than in the entire rest of my life.
Is it just older guys who say it or is it everyone? Either way, I’m sorry to hear that happened to you and not everyone is like that and those people like that just drag everyone else down. I guess they don’t understand the amount of messages you get and that you can’t respond to everyone
It’s mainly guys but I’ve had it off a woman as well believe it or not (she said I was “too into the party side” and had probably caught something). And it’s usually men who’ve never messaged me before - they like to send something insulting then block me so I can’t respond. I don’t know why, I guess they’re bitter at women in general on here because they can’t get meets or something."
Oh again, sorry to hear that. Really? Wow that’s so judgmental.
I’ve gotten some from couples who usually say that I’m too young, how I don’t understand thing here, you’re just here for sex and how I should come back when I’ve got some more experience.
Really? I hate people who message and block you. I’ve had it happen on Reddit and it sucks. Yeah, pretty sure that’s exactly why they’re mad. Guys don’t get a lot of messages like women do and some just see a woman with tons of meets or maybe a preference in their bio that excludes them and just takes it out on them, cos they just think it’s personal. |
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"
It’s mainly guys but I’ve had it off a woman as well believe it or not (she said I was “too into the party side” and had probably caught something). And it’s usually men who’ve never messaged me before - they like to send something insulting then block me so I can’t respond. I don’t know why, I guess they’re bitter at women in general on here because they can’t get meets or something.
Oh again, sorry to hear that. Really? Wow that’s so judgmental.
I’ve gotten some from couples who usually say that I’m too young, how I don’t understand thing here, you’re just here for sex and how I should come back when I’ve got some more experience.
Really? I hate people who message and block you. I’ve had it happen on Reddit and it sucks. Yeah, pretty sure that’s exactly why they’re mad. Guys don’t get a lot of messages like women do and some just see a woman with tons of meets or maybe a preference in their bio that excludes them and just takes it out on them, cos they just think it’s personal. "
There’s a certain type of couple that thinks swinging is exclusively for couples who only meet other couples, and that any other variation is wrong. I expect the ones you mention are like that. Though why they feel the need to message you about it when you aren’t even looking for couples is beyond me!
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head about those guys. They see a woman who they think has met “everyone but me” and they see that as evidence that she’s a slut, not as evidence that they should up their game - if they can’t get a meet it’s women’s fault not theirs. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
It’s mainly guys but I’ve had it off a woman as well believe it or not (she said I was “too into the party side” and had probably caught something). And it’s usually men who’ve never messaged me before - they like to send something insulting then block me so I can’t respond. I don’t know why, I guess they’re bitter at women in general on here because they can’t get meets or something.
Oh again, sorry to hear that. Really? Wow that’s so judgmental.
I’ve gotten some from couples who usually say that I’m too young, how I don’t understand thing here, you’re just here for sex and how I should come back when I’ve got some more experience.
Really? I hate people who message and block you. I’ve had it happen on Reddit and it sucks. Yeah, pretty sure that’s exactly why they’re mad. Guys don’t get a lot of messages like women do and some just see a woman with tons of meets or maybe a preference in their bio that excludes them and just takes it out on them, cos they just think it’s personal.
There’s a certain type of couple that thinks swinging is exclusively for couples who only meet other couples, and that any other variation is wrong. I expect the ones you mention are like that. Though why they feel the need to message you about it when you aren’t even looking for couples is beyond me!
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head about those guys. They see a woman who they think has met “everyone but me” and they see that as evidence that she’s a slut, not as evidence that they should up their game - if they can’t get a meet it’s women’s fault not theirs."
Yeah, pretty much exactly that type. I was asking for forum advice not meeting, that’s when they said it. It’s not the only reason but it’s one of the reasons I don’t wanna meet couples. I guess if single guys message you saying mean stuff, I get why some don’t wanna meet them.
Yeah, exactly. If she meet all the people, she can do it with me too mentality or that it’s unfair that they can’t get that. Also the fact that they don’t know how many messages women receive on here and women can’t reply to everyone and as you said have to up their game. |
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"A woman has to break out of that good girl nice girl Disney bullshit we're all spoon fed as little girls and embrace our inner minx. Men dont have to deal with that. A man is a player and applauded a woman is slut shamed by society at large.
Then maybe those women should just come on here. See how many messages they get compared to the “players” and how slut shaming isn’t tolerated on here, if they wanna get anywhere. "
Slut shaming does still happen on here. Sometimes from other women which I find the worst but I have had a guy message to simply say I'd love meet you but you have too many veris. (Normally they have more than me).
Considering the site we are on I see no need for it and it still puts women off.
I did consider leaving thanks to that guy but then decided to just be me and live my own life. If others don't like it that's their problem. |
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By *niper oneMan
over a year ago
DERBY/Notts border |
"I’m a young lad on here and I’ve just not had much luck at all. Being young seems to be a big no for a lot of people. Is there anything I can do to either improve my profile that could maybe make me more appealing? "
Its the same for all males young or older its a game of chance and luck nothing more.If you want to pull females its easier on pof.
Changing your profile will make know difference.
When females are in demand its there call even the ones you wouldnt look at twice get hundreds of messages daily and most are happy just getting plenty of attention. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A woman has to break out of that good girl nice girl Disney bullshit we're all spoon fed as little girls and embrace our inner minx. Men dont have to deal with that. A man is a player and applauded a woman is slut shamed by society at large.
Then maybe those women should just come on here. See how many messages they get compared to the “players” and how slut shaming isn’t tolerated on here, if they wanna get anywhere.
Slut shaming does still happen on here. Sometimes from other women which I find the worst but I have had a guy message to simply say I'd love meet you but you have too many veris. (Normally they have more than me).
Considering the site we are on I see no need for it and it still puts women off.
I did consider leaving thanks to that guy but then decided to just be me and live my own life. If others don't like it that's their problem. "
Yeah unfortunately but you can still report those who harass you though. I don’t get why other women do it. Maybe it’s just jealousy that the other women get more attention or in their eyes, better looking. Who knows. He said that? What an asshole. I don’t get why that should matter. Isn’t the point to meet people?
Good for you not worrying about those haters. If you don’t let them get to you, then they have no power. They got the problem at the end of the day |
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