FabSwingers.com > Forums > Scotland > Indyref2

Indyref2

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Let's take a bit of responsibility and have the courage to make Scotland the country we want it to be.

Let's do talking uninformed nonsense on immigration and realise we have an aging population, declining tax base and cannot survive without inward migration.

Let's not become a low tax, low job security, paid health service, mini America in thrall to lunatics and dictators.

Let's not pretend that the SNP are perfect and that we don't have problems that need addressed. But let's realise we are best taking them ourselves.

Let's be the modern, successful, open country we all want to be.

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By *eather47Woman over a year ago

Glasgow

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By *earded villainMan over a year ago

edinburgh

more yes now than ever

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As much as I totally agree

This post will more than likely turn sour

But good luck

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By *itsmcgee4Couple over a year ago

Central

I agree with the sentiment OP but I did imagine your entire post in Ewan McGregors voice. It's a bit "Choose Life"

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I look like Ewan McGregor too.. ??

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

Lets go with what was decided

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By *itsmcgee4Couple over a year ago

Central

"I look like Ewan McGregor too.. ??"

Lets forget the whole independence thing for a sec... look like Ewan McGregor you say

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I know what you are saying pal. It's very soon. But brexit is an epic economic and social disaster.

Times have changed.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I look like Ewan McGregor too.. ??

Lets forget the whole independence thing for a sec... look like Ewan McGregor you say

Yes, it's been said. During the toilet scene.

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

"I know what you are saying pal. It's very soon. But brexit is an epic economic and social disaster.

Times have changed.

"
I get that your belief is as you have said that dosnt change a decision was made.the only way it can be peoven to be a disaster is with hindsight as it hasnt happened yet its just a claim. To my mind if the focus was shifted to getting on with a decided decision rather than campaigning for another ref. Then we can only prosper. A ref will come in its own time though im sure we wont hear the end of it till independence is reached then the remain poetion will be told to shut up and accept or move south lol.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Brexit is an epic economic and social disaster"

....so let's have Scottish independence

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

""Brexit is an epic economic and social disaster"

....so let's have Scottish independence

Got it on one, mate. Excellent.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Lets accept what the majority votef for and turn our focus to actually running the country with the power we already have

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We voted just over 2 years ago and it was a NO, can't have a referendum every time you don't get what you want, the SNP need to Govern properly and not blame everyone else, thy have the power to better the schools bit choose to make out its Westminster's fault so they can ask for another referendum, they are doing a terrible job in power at the moment. A council tax freeze for the past few years might be a vote winner but look how council services are cut time and time again as it's not feasible to budget on 2016/2017 with funding which is the same as 2012/2013.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"We voted just over 2 years ago and it was a NO, can't have a referendum every time you don't get what you want, the SNP need to Govern properly and not blame everyone else, thy have the power to better the schools bit choose to make out its Westminster's fault so they can ask for another referendum, they are doing a terrible job in power at the moment. A council tax freeze for the past few years might be a vote winner but look how council services are cut time and time again as it's not feasible to budget on 2016/2017 with funding which is the same as 2012/2013."

Brexit means change is coming whether we like it or not. 2014 status quo not available anymore no matter what. Brexit will destroy UK economy and no serious bank, think tank, economist or commentator has said anything different. Time to leave a sinking ship.

SNP have control over 30 tax revenue and 15% welfare. Attainment gap in education serious but cannot be tackled fully without full powers to deal with Tory driven poverty.

Ctax freeze is ended.

Time to take control over our affairs.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Lets accept what the majority votef for and turn our focus to actually running the country with the power we already have "

What we voted for in 2014 does not exist anymore. Not Scotland's choice either but there you go.

No matter how you press the it, Scottish parliament does not control Scotland fully.

Let's change that and take responsibility for our affairs.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Lets be honest the SNP have blown it. The education system is failing, Transport is a ram shackle joke of a service, I use it daily i know how it is...The health service seems to be struggling to cope...I think Ms Sturgeon should be very careful what she wishes for, in my office her support is on the wane...Too many soundbites far too few sensible policies...The anti-english aspect is a real vote loser as well . xx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Lets accept what the majority votef for and turn our focus to actually running the country with the power we already have

What we voted for in 2014 does not exist anymore. Not Scotland's choice either but there you go.

No matter how you press the it, Scottish parliament does not control Scotland fully.

Let's change that and take responsibility for our affairs.

It 2014 Scotland voted to remain as part of the UK.

There was no reference to the EU on the ballot paper.

The game SNP are no playing here is obvious but the Scottish people will not fooled.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 17/02/17 14:27:57]

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Lets be honest the SNP have blown it. The education system is failing, Transport is a ram shackle joke of a service, I use it daily i know how it is...The health service seems to be struggling to cope...I think Ms Sturgeon should be very careful what she wishes for, in my office her support is on the wane...Too many soundbites far too few sensible policies...The anti-english aspect is a real vote loser as well . xx

Education is not failing. One of the best education systems in the world but yes, attainment gap and yes, marginally worse outcomes when compared to ruk. But to look at education in isolation is to misunderstand nature of poverty.

Transport across UK failing due to decades of chronic underinvestment. To blame SNP is daft.

Health service outperforms ruk on all key indicators. All of them. SNP success story.

Antienglish stuff? Where? Scotland most pro immigration part of UK.

Hope that helps your thinking.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Lets accept what the majority votef for and turn our focus to actually running the country with the power we already have

What we voted for in 2014 does not exist anymore. Not Scotland's choice either but there you go.

No matter how you press the it, Scottish parliament does not control Scotland fully.

Let's change that and take responsibility for our affairs.

It 2014 Scotland voted to remain as part of the UK.

There was no reference to the EU on the ballot paper.

The game SNP are no playing here is obvious but the Scottish people will not fooled."

Em, you have noticed brexit aye?!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Lets accept what the majority votef for and turn our focus to actually running the country with the power we already have

What we voted for in 2014 does not exist anymore. Not Scotland's choice either but there you go.

No matter how you press the it, Scottish parliament does not control Scotland fully.

Let's change that and take responsibility for our affairs.

It 2014 Scotland voted to remain as part of the UK.

There was no reference to the EU on the ballot paper.

The game SNP are no playing here is obvious but the Scottish people will not fooled.

Em, you have noticed brexit aye?!

Of course. We voted to leave. I'm able to deal with it and move on.

SNP on the other hand appear to be using it to further their ends though. Who'd have thunk it.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Lets accept what the majority votef for and turn our focus to actually running the country with the power we already have

What we voted for in 2014 does not exist anymore. Not Scotland's choice either but there you go.

No matter how you press the it, Scottish parliament does not control Scotland fully.

Let's change that and take responsibility for our affairs.

It 2014 Scotland voted to remain as part of the UK.

There was no reference to the EU on the ballot paper.

The game SNP are no playing here is obvious but the Scottish people will not fooled.

Em, you have noticed brexit aye?!

Of course. We voted to leave. I'm able to deal with it and move on.

SNP on the other hand appear to be using it to further their ends though. Who'd have thunk it."

It's not about personal emotional acceptance of brexit.

It's about understanding the impact it will have on us and our kids. If you think it'll be fine then please direct me to the learned economic analysis saying that?

Moving on isn't an option I'd suggest. Change is coming and you can choose to be passive or proactive.

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By *oanne_MacTV/TS over a year ago

Perth

"Lets accept what the majority votef for and turn our focus to actually running the country with the power we already have

What we voted for in 2014 does not exist anymore. Not Scotland's choice either but there you go.

No matter how you press the it, Scottish parliament does not control Scotland fully.

Let's change that and take responsibility for our affairs.

It 2014 Scotland voted to remain as part of the UK.

There was no reference to the EU on the ballot paper.

The game SNP are no playing here is obvious but the Scottish people will not fooled."

A big part of the NO campaign was the claims that the only way to protect scotlands place in the EU was to reject independance, less than two years later the UK parliment has voted to leave the EU.... Voters were lied to...

Also 2years on, where are all these devomax powers promised if scotland voted no?... Another lie.

If theres another referendum i'll be voting yes again.

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By *unseekers87Couple over a year ago

Glasgow ish

"I agree with the sentiment OP but I did imagine your entire post in Ewan McGregors voice. It's a bit "Choose Life"

Now I'm imagining it too lol

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By *wiftieeMan over a year ago

near Glasgow

"Time to leave a sinking ship.

The only sinking ship around here is the EU.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Lets accept what the majority votef for and turn our focus to actually running the country with the power we already have

What we voted for in 2014 does not exist anymore. Not Scotland's choice either but there you go.

No matter how you press the it, Scottish parliament does not control Scotland fully.

Let's change that and take responsibility for our affairs.

It 2014 Scotland voted to remain as part of the UK.

There was no reference to the EU on the ballot paper.

The game SNP are no playing here is obvious but the Scottish people will not fooled.

Also 2years on, where are all these devomax powers promised if scotland voted no?... Another lie.

If theres another referendum i'll be voting yes again."

Fine, if there's another referendum I'll be voting no again as eu membership was not particularly relevant to me in THAT referendum, hence nothing has changed.

Also won't take any lessons from people warning of economic carnage due to brexit who wanted Scotland to be independent in 2014. Now that woulda been REAL carnage I'm sure we can all agree.

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By *wiftieeMan over a year ago

near Glasgow

Couldn't agree more!!!

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By *wiftieeMan over a year ago

near Glasgow

Transport across UK failing due to decades of chronic underinvestment. To blame SNP is daft.

Health service outperforms ruk on all key indicators. All of them. SNP success story.

Antienglish stuff? Where? Scotland most pro immigration part of UK.

Hope that helps your thinking.

Quite frankly, you're deluded!!!!

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I see the daily mail and daily express continues to enjoy an avid readership in Scotland. Oh well.

I'd suggest you can't just cover your eyes, plug your ears and sing la la la and pretend brexit isn't happening.

I don't fancy the idea of closed small minded xenophobic Britain flogging weapons to despots and demonising brown people and the poor.

But maybe that's just me.

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

The last thing either side wanted was division in the populace guess what lol. Horrible to say this but it sometimes feels like children stamping their feet im not playing till we are independant. Accept its what first scotland decided then the uk as a whole decided instead of conspiracy theorys. The time will come again acceptance is needed now though which I dont see much of.as for the doom n gloom brigade our economy was supposed to crash days after the brexit vote it dipped and picked up so much for think tanks and economists

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"The last thing either side wanted was division in the populace guess what lol. Horrible to say this but it sometimes feels like children stamping their feet im not playing till we are independant. Accept its what first scotland decided then the uk as a whole decided instead of conspiracy theorys. The time will come again acceptance is needed now though which I dont see much of.as for the doom n gloom brigade our economy was supposed to crash days after the brexit vote it dipped and picked up so much for think tanks and economists

It's not children pal..It's deadly serious. Brexit has not happened hence no crash.

Please direct me to the serious economic analysis which predicts brexit will be good for UK. A link will suffice..

I'll look forward to it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oh well indeed

You started the thread trying to gain support for independence, and to be honest made some fair points

But now...people have different opinions!!!! How dare they...

"You are all daily mail and daily express readers"

That attitude is a part of the reason the nationalists failed in 2014. And will fail again.

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By *lcockMan over a year ago

stirling

Everyone is saying that brexit should mean a second Scottish referendum. What makes euro zone so good. Other countries are looking at holding referendums and voicing their opions of also leaving. And the GBP is still stronger than the euro and the Dollar

Supposing we did become independent we are unlikely going to gain entry into Europe as various current members have stated. So we would be cut adrift from Brittian and Europe. (Also need a gdp of under 4% Scotland's sits at 9.7%)

The snp want to ban trump so America might be a tad tricky. However wee Eck was happy to cosy up and let him build a golf course against the locals will to be fair.

People are saying about a hard brexit leaving a union that lasted over 30 years. Well one that's lasted over 300 hundred should be breeze eh. Not to mention the fact we do three times the amount of business with the rest of the U.K. Than we do with Europe.

In addition, the Snp lost the last referendum as the failed to answer important question ie reliance on oil, currency tackling the countries debt levels, etc were still waiting on answers.

Maybe, just a wee idea they could try being a ruling party and not a protest party and concentrate on governing.

I knew as we as all did that during the last Indy ref their was going to be a European Union referendum. We voted remain with that knowledge. How about we stick together and try and get through it together.

Undoubly I'm going to be called a coward, traitor, anti Scottish etc but hay ho lol

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Oh well indeed

You started the thread trying to gain support for independence, and to be honest made some fair points

But now...people have different opinions!!!! How dare they...

"You are all daily mail and daily express readers"

That attitude is a part of the reason the nationalists failed in 2014. And will fail again."

If you decide your future based on such trivial concerns then fair enough. This is forum of anonymous folk so looser language possibly not a surprise but... I do take your point.

Ask yourself: do you want to be poorer? Do you want to control your own affairs? Do you understand ans agree that we desperately need inward migration? Do you want Teresa may deciding your future?

Therein lies your vote in indyref2.

No one will know if you secretly decide to vote yes

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Aaahhhh don't you just love all this sexy chat and flirting on a sexy site.......

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Aaahhhh don't you just love all this sexy chat and flirting on a sexy site.......

Nothing sexier than our futures...

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By *itsmcgee4Couple over a year ago

Central

"Aaahhhh don't you just love all this sexy chat and flirting on a sexy site.......

Agreed! At least the football one seems to have died a death

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Aaahhhh don't you just love all this sexy chat and flirting on a sexy site.......

Agreed! At least the football one seems to have died a death

Well actually I have some interesting thoughts on the cattenaccio system developed by Interested Milan in the 60's...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Aaahhhh don't you just love all this sexy chat and flirting on a sexy site.......

Agreed! At least the football one seems to have died a death

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By *i_garyMan over a year ago

glasgow

Let's solve the problem of leaving the market we export £12.3bn to by instead leaving the market we export £49.8bn to. That'll work...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Oh well indeed

You started the thread trying to gain support for independence, and to be honest made some fair points

But now...people have different opinions!!!! How dare they...

"You are all daily mail and daily express readers"

That attitude is a part of the reason the nationalists failed in 2014. And will fail again."

If it wasn't all so awful last time around I would actually welcome Indyref 2. I believe there would be way less than 45% voting yes. And maybe, just maybe the ones refusing to accept the last result will finally hud their wheesht for a while...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's SHITE being Scottish! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the fucking Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete arseholes. It's a SHITE state of affairs to be in, Tommy, and ALL the fresh air in the world won't make any fucking difference

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's SHITE being Scottish! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the fucking Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete arseholes. It's a SHITE state of affairs to be in, Tommy, and ALL the fresh air in the world won't make any fucking difference

Aww. You could always emigrate to Syria

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Everyone is saying that brexit should mean a second Scottish referendum. What makes euro zone so good. Other countries are looking at holding referendums and voicing their opions of also leaving. And the GBP is still stronger than the euro and the Dollar

The snp want to ban trump so America might be a tad tricky. However wee Eck was happy to cosy up and let him build a golf course against the locals will to be fair.

In addition, the Snp lost the last referendum as the failed to answer important question ie reliance on oil, currency tackling the countries debt levels, etc were still waiting on answers.

Maybe, just a wee idea they could try being a ruling party and not a protest party and concentrate on governing.

Undoubly I'm going to be called a coward, traitor, anti Scottish etc but hay ho lol

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Let's solve the problem of leaving the market we export £12.3bn to by instead leaving the market we export £49.8bn to. That'll work..."

Okay...So Scottish uk trade ceases after Indy? Like say UK EU trade? Or UK anywhere else trade?

Trade will still take place and to suggest otherwise is fanciful.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Aww. You could always emigrate to Syria

Awesome I might do that.lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Let's solve the problem of leaving the market we export £12.3bn to by instead leaving the market we export £49.8bn to. That'll work...

Okay...So Scottish uk trade ceases after Indy? Like say UK EU trade? Or UK anywhere else trade?

Trade will still take place and to suggest otherwise is fanciful. "

Have the snp came up with a valid plan yet other than the white paper as that was only an idea of what could happen if we where to get independence

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

An independent Scotland won't be part of the eu anyway and with France on the verge of leaving who would want to be.

The snp are signing their own death warrant imo. 1/3 of their members voted to leave the eu so it is likely to cause massive division within the party.

Once in a lifetime

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By *i_garyMan over a year ago

glasgow

"Let's solve the problem of leaving the market we export £12.3bn to by instead leaving the market we export £49.8bn to. That'll work...

Okay...So Scottish uk trade ceases after Indy? Like say UK EU trade? Or UK anywhere else trade?

Trade will still take place and to suggest otherwise is fanciful. "

As I've pointed out before on here the whole issue with Brexit is that the UK loses open access to the EU single market. In it's place there will be trade tarrifs etc. That's the huge downside to Brexit.

So that being the case if indy Scotland joins the EU and the UK leaves indy Scotland is in the single market and therefore all trade with the UK will be subject to tarrifs.

You can't say leaving the EU is bad because of the impact it'll have on trade etc and then somehow try to claim that trade between one tiny part of the EU (Scotland) somehow won't be subject to the same rules as the rest of the EU.

That's pretty clear and straightforward.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Also if you seen wee eck on the politics show on Sunday you will know they are no further forward with their currency plan yet

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By *lcockMan over a year ago

stirling

doubt it the last white paper was a farce. wee Eck said it was guaranteed $120 a barrel for crude oil. Thank goodness we swerved that.

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By *i_garyMan over a year ago

glasgow

"doubt it the last white paper was a farce. wee Eck said it was guaranteed $120 a barrel for crude oil. Thank goodness we swerved that. "

The white paper had Scotland's income from oil for this year projected to be between £6.9bn and £7.9bn. The actual figure..... it's -£287million. The minus is due to the fact the govt is now actually subsidising the industry with tax breaks, refunds.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Exactly, if it wasn't for Westminster right now UK oil and Gas in the North Sea would be in a worse state than it is now. But don't worry the SNP have spent £27million on cardboard boxes for babies which will solve everything.

I think their research into these boxes failed to highlight that they only work when coupled with excellent midwifery and health visitors. Ask any health visitor and midwife you want in Scotland and they will tell you exactly where that £27million would have been better spent.

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By *i_garyMan over a year ago

glasgow

"Exactly, if it wasn't for Westminster right now UK oil and Gas in the North Sea would be in a worse state than it is now. But don't worry the SNP have spent £27million on cardboard boxes for babies which will solve everything.

The baby box expenditure could be a scandal in the making. This link explains all

https://graeme-from-it.tumblr.com/post/157189417936/boxofdelights

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By *lcockMan over a year ago

stirling

Thought It was great when sturgeon was trying to make deals with Ireland to stay in the eu. The same Ireland Brittian bailed out in 2008.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 17/02/17 21:20:50]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Free scotland from all this shite

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We voted yes the first time, and not sure about Mr but I would voted yes again

Christ even my mum who's English (but has been up here longer than I've been around) voted yes and can't understand how someone in England can possibly decide whats best for us up here.

Just cos something works for one, doesn't mean it works for everyone

And I'm under no illusion as to how hard it would be to start of with, but I'm thinking of the better future for my grandweans (thinking it probably won't affect my weans too much) x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It seems the majority of scots are happy with the way snp are running the country or they wouldnt be in power, i know a lot of unionists dont like this but i can only see support for snp getting stronger and independence is only a matter of time ,oh and after independence we should become a republic and get rid of the royals too

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So indyref2 and if it's a YES, take power away from Westminster and give it to Brussels ??? How is that taking charge of our own Country ??????

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS over a year ago

Glasgow

"It seems the majority of scots are happy with the way snp are running the country or they wouldnt be in power, i know a lot of unionists dont like this but i can only see support for snp getting stronger and independence is only a matter of time ,oh and after independence we should become a republic and get rid of the royals too

Tha majority? I think you'll find they took under 50% of the votes at the last election. Just around double what the Tories got which is pretty surprising for some.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think every country should fight passionately for its Independence and its individuality but recognise that we are all dependent on each other. No country is an island (I paraphrase there and sadly Scotland is not an island). What continually disappoints me in politics is the seeming priority of politics of oneupmanship, power play, money etc etc... who cares who caused this or that... work together to implement good ideas that benefit society no matter who came up with them... I know, I'm a dreamer... but I'm not the only one (Imagine eh???

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

""Brexit is an epic economic and social disaster"

....so let's have Scottish independence

Got it on one, mate. Excellent. "

If I recall;

Scotland voted to remain in UK, part of Britain

UK voted to leave EU

what part do you not understand?

Get used to it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"An independent Scotland won't be part of the eu anyway and with France on the verge of leaving who would want to be.

The snp are signing their own death warrant imo. 1/3 of their members voted to leave the eu so it is likely to cause massive division within the party.

Once in a lifetime "

I was one of the 1/3

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By *andACouple over a year ago

glasgow

[Removed by poster at 18/02/17 09:19:11]

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By *andACouple over a year ago

glasgow

"An independent Scotland won't be part of the eu anyway and with France on the verge of leaving who would want to be.

The snp are signing their own death warrant imo. 1/3 of their members voted to leave the eu so it is likely to cause massive division within the party.

Once in a lifetime

I was one of the 1/3"

Anyone who voted leave and is a SNP voter/member has basically been completely shunned by their party, it's as though they don't exist. Of course they'll still be looking for their votes come the next election.

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By *lcockMan over a year ago

stirling

Said it before their a party of protest with one soloution for everything independence. Everything's westminsters fault. I certainly didn't vote for the SNP. However I respect that democratic decision. How about they respect the majority that voted to remain in the United Kingdom.

As I've said how about not dividing a nation but galvanise it and get our own house in order. ie education, health and the farce that's police Scotland.

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By *earded villainMan over a year ago

edinburgh

can i just point out a few things .

independance and the yes campaign was not exclusive to the snp . it was never and should never have been about party politics.

as for banging the drum on i dependance well tbe clues kinda in the name .

i may also point out that in their recent election manifesto it was clearly stated that should scotland be removed from the eu against the wishes of its electorate then they would seek a further independance referendum . they won that election fairly comfortably . should they now ignore their own manifesto that got them elected ?

im no snp fan boy and would love to see them face some strong opposition . labour is a shambles and the tories well lets not go there with their right wing politics .

independance to me will never be about sturgeon or salmond but simply about the right to self determination . folk hate the snp and want them out ? gain independance and the snp will splinter into various factions . hopefully a strong socialist party can be formed and some real opposition will come out it all .

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By *andACouple over a year ago

glasgow

"can i just point out a few things .

independance and the yes campaign was not exclusive to the snp . it was never and should never have been about party politics.

as for banging the drum on i dependance well tbe clues kinda in the name .

im no snp fan boy and would love to see them face some strong opposition . labour is a shambles and the tories well lets not go there with their right wing politics .

The problem is though with the SNP being so controlling they will be the ones running any indy campaign and setting out the post indy vision. If you look at sites like CommonWeal you'll see complaints about just how little say they will allow other groups who don't follow their line. Ultimately any referendum (and I'm not sure there will be one) will be fought on the SNP's vision of an independent Scotland. The other problem with that is that their white paper from the last campaign has been shown to be an utter fantasy (more sensible types within the SNP realise this and are now calling the white paper 'aspirational' rather than a true picture of post indy Scotland)

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By *lcockMan over a year ago

stirling

"can i just point out a few things .

independance and the yes campaign was not exclusive to the snp . it was never and should never have been about party politics.

as for banging the drum on i dependance well tbe clues kinda in the name .

im no snp fan boy and would love to see them face some strong opposition . labour is a shambles and the tories well lets not go there with their right wing politics .

Agree whole heartedly with that, they can't even acknowledge any flaws with their last attemp.

And if you point any out your anti Scottish etc etc.

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By *wiftieeMan over a year ago

near Glasgow

"So indyref2 and if it's a YES, take power away from Westminster and give it to Brussels ??? How is that taking charge of our own Country ??????"

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By *wiftieeMan over a year ago

near Glasgow

The baby box expenditure could be a scandal in the making. This link explains all

https://graeme-from-it.tumblr.com/post/157189417936/boxofdelights"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Getting rid if the royals would free up a lot of money. Bring back clan socity. A clan system of rulership would run far better.lol

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By *anarkshirelassCouple over a year ago

lanarkshire

Getting rid if the royals would free up a lot of money. Bring back clan socity. A clan system of rulership would run far better.lol"

And here it lies...'The Republic of Scotland'...the hidden agenda.

On the first issue, ,If you take the time to check how much in monetary terms 'The Royals' as you state bring into this country in revenue on Tourism alone you'd see that it greatly outweighs what they are allocated.

What is it about the tartan republicans that you don't seem to get into you heads. You had a democratic vote, note the word democratic, for Independence or Remain...and in case you forgot...YOU LOST.... live with it. ACCEPT IT and get on with it. But no...not the SNP and republican hardliners, their stance is ..'we want another vote on the issue' So there's the democratic SNP mentality way of thinking..."Its our ball and we aren't playing mentality"

The United Kingdom had a collective vote on the European Union... the democratic vote, IRRESPECTIVE OF YOUR OWN VIEWS, of the collective voice of the people of the UK was TO LEAVE...but in case you have forgot, let me remind you, your still part of the United Kingdom and I'll say once again, the voice of the UK was to leave....So we're leaving....ACCEPT IT...

And this is the crux of the matter...even if Scotland was to gain its independence,Scotland wouldn't be allowed automatic entry into the E.U.

Scotland would also have to take with it its very large proportion of the UK national debt and in case you forgot, our saviour, in what the SNP spout on before the 1st Indy Ref as our road to glory, has went belly and oil production and revenue....is rock bottom.

So in conclusion...everything above is all about the peoples democratic vote so live with it, accept it and deal with and stop moaning and get rid of the 'its our ball' mentality.

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By *earded villainMan over a year ago

edinburgh

if people just accept everything hiw the hell do things change ?

slavery , shut the fuck up and accept it . womans right to vote . fuck no , shut up and accept it !!

what a sorry fucking world we would live in if people just accepted everything and nothing changed.

maybe some people are happy to be bent over and fucked by the eton elite and know their place as a servant to those that control the game . thankfully im not one of them

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By *andACouple over a year ago

glasgow

"if people just accept everything hiw the hell do things change ?

slavery , shut the fuck up and accept it . womans right to vote . fuck no , shut up and accept it !!

what a sorry fucking world we would live in if people just accepted everything and nothing changed.

maybe some people are happy to be bent over and fucked by the eton elite and know their place as a servant to those that control the game . thankfully im not one of them "

Change for changes sake is pointless unless it can be shown to be a positive. Our parliament has the powers to change many things but refuses to do so, they're afraid to take bold steps in case it means they lose any of the broad coalition of support they have. It's time for the Scottish Govt to start to use the powers they have and do some good with them.

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By *earded villainMan over a year ago

edinburgh

to me having the right to self determination . to be in full control of our own affairs is not just a change for change sake .

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"can i just point out a few things .

independance and the yes campaign was not exclusive to the snp . it was never and should never have been about party politics.

as for banging the drum on i dependance well tbe clues kinda in the name .

im no snp fan boy and would love to see them face some strong opposition . labour is a shambles and the tories well lets not go there with their right wing politics .

The true fact is;

There is no opposition against the snp

Kezia Dugdale along with the previous Jim Murphy have together killed off Scottish Labour.

Ruth Davidson, is closest to an opposition but it simply wont happen

Willie Rennie; just an embarrassment along with the traitor Danny Alexander

Patrick Harvie & the greens back the SNP with open & behind doors deals

You better get used to a long line of SNP rule, for better or worse

(worse for me; im a shooter).

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By *i_garyMan over a year ago

glasgow

"if people just accept everything hiw the hell do things change ?

slavery , shut the fuck up and accept it . womans right to vote . fuck no , shut up and accept it !!

what a sorry fucking world we would live in if people just accepted everything and nothing changed.

maybe some people are happy to be bent over and fucked by the eton elite and know their place as a servant to those that control the game . thankfully im not one of them

They've failed to use most of the powers they were shouting for. It's also telling that they're making sure the transfer of welfare powers is taking a long time and that's for a very good reason, i.e. it suits them to blame 'Westminster' for benefit levels but having responsibility for them themselves and the difficult decisions that come with them is something they're in no rush to take on. The White paper claimed an indy Scottish state could be set up within 18 months and yet now the SNP are claiming it'll take over 3 years for the process of transferring some benefits to them and over 5 years for others. They prefer protesting to governing.

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By *earded villainMan over a year ago

edinburgh

"can i just point out a few things .

independance and the yes campaign was not exclusive to the snp . it was never and should never have been about party politics.

as for banging the drum on i dependance well tbe clues kinda in the name .

im no snp fan boy and would love to see them face some strong opposition . labour is a shambles and the tories well lets not go there with their right wing politics .

The true fact is;

There is no opposition against the snp

Kezia Dugdale along with the previous Jim Murphy have together killed off Scottish Labour.

Ruth Davidson, is closest to an opposition but it simply wont happen

Willie Rennie; just an embarrassment along with the traitor Danny Alexander

Patrick Harvie & the greens back the SNP with open & behind doors deals

You better get used to a long line of SNP rule, for better or worse

(worse for me; im a shooter)."

then surely a way forward is by gaining independance ?

the snp in its current guise would cease to exist. scottish labour no longer lickspittles to their english paymasters . the chance for some real party politics with whats best for scotland and its people at the forefront of everyones agenda !

we have the oil issue rammed down our throats regular . but we ignore that everything the no campaign promised has been nothing more than wind and pish . mind the only way to remain in the eu was vote no . hows that worked out ?

bullshit and bluster and people so blinded by the hatred for the snp tbey are happy to swallow whatever shit westminster throws at them . baffles fuck out me .

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By *r Costa xxMan over a year ago

stirling

We've 'just realised' that the decision to nationalise the emergency services has cost them £35m, any more bright ideas from SNP?

I am very proud to be Scottish first and foremost, but strength in numbers does work, we should remain part of the uk, but brexit is a feckin disaster granted!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Scottish Nazi Party failed you then and are failing you just as badly now hope your not wanting on a operation as 10,500 operations were cancelled last year works out at 200 a week.

Saying that I'm either stuck on the motorway theses days that's being paid up on the never never or waitng on a delayed train thanks to the governments private tenders.

shall we carry on pretending this is a wonderful place to be was gonna bring up the way schools have been privately funded for and poorly built at exaggerated prices but seriously don't want to damage my chances of a ride on here as it's hard enough being a singleton on fab

freeeeeeedom

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By *earded villainMan over a year ago

edinburgh

thatll be the schools built under labours control yeah ?

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By *i_garyMan over a year ago

glasgow

bullshit and bluster and people so blinded by the hatred for the snp tbey are happy to swallow whatever shit westminster throws at them . baffles fuck out me . "

Everything the no campaign promised was wind and pish?. If you want to list these promises we can go through them (ideally real promises as I see so many supposed vague broken promises that are actually made up). I can also do the same for the promises made by the Yes side.

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By *r Costa xxMan over a year ago

stirling

This is going well

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By *eenonfun2Couple over a year ago

Glasgow

Getting rid if the royals would free up a lot of money. Bring back clan socity. A clan system of rulership would run far better.lol

And here it lies...'The Republic of Scotland'...the hidden agenda.

And this is the crux of the matter...even if Scotland was to gain its independence,Scotland wouldn't be allowed automatic entry into the E.U.

So in conclusion...everything above is all about the peoples democratic vote so live with it, accept it and deal with and stop moaning and get rid of the 'its our ball' mentality."

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By *i_garyMan over a year ago

glasgow

"We've 'just realised' that the decision to nationalise the emergency services has cost them £35m, any more bright ideas from SNP?

I am very proud to be Scottish first and foremost, but strength in numbers does work, we should remain part of the uk, but brexit is a feckin disaster granted!"

A Freedom of Information request shows the SNP knew they would have to pay this VAT charge if they combined the Police etc but they went on with it regardless and then decided to act as though they knew nothing about it and blame Westminster.

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By *r Costa xxMan over a year ago

stirling

"We've 'just realised' that the decision to nationalise the emergency services has cost them £35m, any more bright ideas from SNP?

I am very proud to be Scottish first and foremost, but strength in numbers does work, we should remain part of the uk, but brexit is a feckin disaster granted!

Exactly my point, very trustworthy, lets give them more power, err not

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Scottish Nazi Party failed you then and are failing you just as badly now hope your not wanting on a operation as 10,500 operations were cancelled last year works out at 200 a week.

Saying that I'm either stuck on the motorway theses days that's being paid up on the never never or waitng on a delayed train thanks to the governments private tenders.

freeeeeeedom "

Oh dear.

Cancelled operations because of staffing issues in NHS Scotland running at less than 2.5% in Dec 16. But don't let that ruin your contextless factoid.

Poorly built schools built under PFI brought in by Labour - years before SNP took power. But don't let that ruin you poor researched gripe.

Scotrail outperforms other rail operators in the UK. But again...

Nazi party? Oh dear. You can talk to folk about irrational fears you know.

Anyway, Indy isn't about saying Scotland is great, it's about saying it ISN'T and we could be better.

That's the question: What sort of country do you want to live in?

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By *i_garyMan over a year ago

glasgow

Let's look at the words of Alex Bell who was Salmond's head of policy and worked on the independence White Paper. These words are from last year:

"The idea that you could have a Scotland with high public spending, low taxes, a stable economy and reasonable government debt was wishful a year ago – now it is deluded"

"That model, as expressed in the White Paper and numerous speeches, is that it was possible to move from the UK to an independent Scotland and keep services at the same level, without either borrowing a lot more or raising taxes. It isn’t.”

"The interests of the SNP and the interests of independence have diverged. Independence needs facts and planning. The leadership fear those facts will rip the party apart. The SNP is growing comfortable in its role as the ‘Scotland’ party within a lop-sided UK, while pretending it is still fighting for independence to keep the party together.

We are told the people are in charge, but the Government goes out of its way to deny the people information. This isn’t about Scotland, its about the SNP. The electorate aren’t stupid. They tolerate this contradiction for want of an alternative. Lets pray that alternative turns up before independence does.

This is a morally dubious form of government. Posing as the defender of the poor against Tories when you have no credible alternative and don’t bother to research one is arguably immoral. More so when there is an explicit party policy not to reverse all cuts upon independence. The SNP’s ill-prepared version of independence does not plausibly offer any real alternative."

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By *i_garyMan over a year ago

glasgow

Actually reading more of Alex Bell's words and he lays bare the deceit and lies of the SNP and their vision of independence. Again the words below are all his:

"Three dates mark the moment when the high times turned down for ever. Lets start with 9 February.

On this day, at Holyrood’s Finance Committee, Scottish National Party members voted down the proposal for a Scottish Fiscal Commission.

This incredible decision – actively resisting discovering more about Scotland – was barely noticed at the time, but is very important.

For twenty years the SNP included in its manifestos the need for an independent economic unit.

When the chance to have one came, the party blocked it.

The reason is simply because such a unit would have produced economic data that contradicted the macho armoury of out-dated information on which the movement’s bully boys still thrive.

Instead of nation-building, the independence party was using its majority to keep Scots in the dark."

"The next important date is 25th February when the ‘fiscal framework’ was agreed. The Scottish Government had cleverly run negotiations for this into the period when the UK government was more concerned about the EU referendum. Downing Street did a quick settlement massively in Scotland’s favour to clear the desks for its euro battle.

In effect, the UK Treasury is underwriting Scotland’s foray into tax collecting. If Holyrood gets it wrong, then London will cover the losses. It’s very good for Scots – not only responsibility, but an insurance policy in the back pocket if it all goes belly up.

Yet the SNP seem unable to celebrate this coup, perhaps wary they might alert the indie faithful that the bigger game is up."

"The last date is March 9th, when the government announced their annual balance sheet – what is earned within Scotland’s borders and what is spent on services. There is a £15bn gap into the red.

Were Scotland about to become independent, Edinburgh would have to find a way of filling that gap, plus the costs of the independence process.

If Scotland were in a currency union with either Sterling or the Euro, there would be borrowing limits which would prevent the newly independent state simply borrowing £15bn.

For sake of argument let’s say borrowing (which will bring its own costs) cuts the deficit in half to £7.5bn. That is still a very big hole in Scottish spending, well beyond what reasonable tax increases could raise."

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By *anarkshirelassCouple over a year ago

lanarkshire

"Let's look at the words of Alex Bell who was Salmond's head of policy and worked on the independence White Paper. These words are from last year:

"The idea that you could have a Scotland with high public spending, low taxes, a stable economy and reasonable government debt was wishful a year ago – now it is deluded"

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By *anarkshirelassCouple over a year ago

lanarkshire

"Scottish Nazi Party failed you then and are failing you just as badly now hope your not wanting on a operation as 10,500 operations were cancelled last year works out at 200 a week.

Saying that I'm either stuck on the motorway theses days that's being paid up on the never never or waitng on a delayed train thanks to the governments private tenders.

freeeeeeedom

Oh dear.

Cancelled operations because of staffing issues in NHS Scotland running at less than 2.5% in Dec 16. But don't let that ruin your contextless factoid.

Poorly built schools built under PFI brought in by Labour - years before SNP took power. But don't let that ruin you poor researched gripe.

Scotrail outperforms other rail operators in the UK. But again...

Nazi party? Oh dear. You can talk to folk about irrational fears you know.

Anyway, Indy isn't about saying Scotland is great, it's about saying it ISN'T and we could be better.

That's the question: What sort of country do you want to live in?

"
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz yeah yeah...same old, same old...YOU AINT GETTING INDY2...

You have one of 2 options....accept it...or...go to somewhere were its a Republic..simple as that

p.s take your ball with you, it isn't needed in this country

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Scottish Nazi Party failed you then and are failing you just as badly now hope your not wanting on a operation as 10,500 operations were cancelled last year works out at 200 a week.

Saying that I'm either stuck on the motorway theses days that's being paid up on the never never or waitng on a delayed train thanks to the governments private tenders.

freeeeeeedom

Oh dear.

Cancelled operations because of staffing issues in NHS Scotland running at less than 2.5% in Dec 16. But don't let that ruin your contextless factoid.

Poorly built schools built under PFI brought in by Labour - years before SNP took power. But don't let that ruin you poor researched gripe.

Scotrail outperforms other rail operators in the UK. But again...

Nazi party? Oh dear. You can talk to folk about irrational fears you know.

Anyway, Indy isn't about saying Scotland is great, it's about saying it ISN'T and we could be better.

That's the question: What sort of country do you want to live in?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz yeah yeah...same old, same old...YOU AINT GETTING INDY2...

You have one of 2 options....accept it...or...go to somewhere were its a Republic..simple as that

p.s take your ball with you, it isn't needed in this country

A valuable contribution.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Argue all you want but the Scottish population voted and said No .

you want a better life then leave you wife and stop sneaking about behind her back kidding yourself on and address you own issues first

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Or....If you can't debate in an intelligent adult fashion throw in a personal insult to punctuate your point!!