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Bin Lorry
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What exactly would you like them to prosecute with. To many folk cant accept accidents happen there isnt always someone to blame. Im sure your going to say blackouts 2010. Whos to say thats an ongoing thing for this poor driver. Im sure after weighing everything up the cps decided there was no case to answer |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"What exactly would you like them to prosecute with. To many folk cant accept accidents happen there isnt always someone to blame. Im sure your going to say blackouts 2010. Whos to say thats an ongoing thing for this poor driver. Im sure after weighing everything up the cps decided there was no case to answer "
His medical records, read out in court, show a lengthy history of blackouts, dizzy turns etc. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Sad tragic accident. Yes the driver wasn't in great health but certainly did not go out to hurt anyone."
He did, however, deliberately deceive those who could have kept him from being in charge of what turned out to be a deadly weapon. |
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"What exactly would you like them to prosecute with. To many folk cant accept accidents happen there isnt always someone to blame. Im sure your going to say blackouts 2010. Whos to say thats an ongoing thing for this poor driver. Im sure after weighing everything up the cps decided there was no case to answer
His medical records, read out in court, show a lengthy history of blackouts, dizzy turns etc. "
sorry your privy to his medical records or you just guessing from what you have read ? |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"What exactly would you like them to prosecute with. To many folk cant accept accidents happen there isnt always someone to blame. Im sure your going to say blackouts 2010. Whos to say thats an ongoing thing for this poor driver. Im sure after weighing everything up the cps decided there was no case to answer
His medical records, read out in court, show a lengthy history of blackouts, dizzy turns etc. sorry your privy to his medical records or you just guessing from what you have read ?"
They were read out in court. Admitted as evidence. No guessing required. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Are you not meant to tell the DVLA about blackouts etc? If so would he have been able to get a driving job to be able to have the blackout that killed a lot of people?"
There are rules about how soon you can drive after things like syncope, blackouts, fitting of a pacemaker or defibrillator. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I dont believe for a minute that everyone who is in Employment is totally honest regards to their Health.There are people with underlying illnesses that have no control of their own ..Diabetes Asthma attacks Heart Attacks etc .I think this Driver must be totally devasted the thought of his illness has caused.There was no intent to drive the Lorry in how he did.
It is sad for the People who perished in this accident.The Driver had no control over his actions
People always look for someone to blame ..
God Bless tThem x
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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they were not fully read out in court.. should get facts right before claiming that.. unless you have read them all dont comment..
you forget this man has to live with these deaths for the rest of his life..... for something he might not have been able to stop....
also other mistakes by a lot of other people added up to a big major ACCIDENT..... thats what it was at end of day |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"they were not fully read out in court.. should get facts right before claiming that.. unless you have read them all dont comment..
you forget this man has to live with these deaths for the rest of his life..... for something he might not have been able to stop....
also other mistakes by a lot of other people added up to a big major ACCIDENT..... thats what it was at end of day"
He could have avoided ANY risk of killing people by driving by NOT DRIVING. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"they were not fully read out in court.. should get facts right before claiming that.. unless you have read them all dont comment..
you forget this man has to live with these deaths for the rest of his life..... for something he might not have been able to stop....
also other mistakes by a lot of other people added up to a big major ACCIDENT..... thats what it was at end of day"
Agreed
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Ms Bain also listed three episodes of illness suffered by Mr Clarke long before he was employed by the council:
In 1989 he had a blackout.
In 1994 he reported being dizzy at the wheel of a vehicle.
In 2003, he was told not to drive because of a similar difficulty.
This isnt medical records and to my point of _iew its something most folk will have had complaints of by the time they reach that age but hey they are all still driving. It sounds bad and paints a bad picture exactly what folk wanted everyone to see. Thats my opinion its a sad accident
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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you need to go have a look in mirror...
do u know ur perfectly healthy and will never black out at wheel of your car or have a heart attack...
really ur blaming a him..... give the guy a break.. most important thing about the fai is this never happens again |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"they were not fully read out in court.. should get facts right before claiming that.. unless you have read them all dont comment..
you forget this man has to live with these deaths for the rest of his life..... for something he might not have been able to stop....
also other mistakes by a lot of other people added up to a big major ACCIDENT..... thats what it was at end of day
He could have avoided ANY risk of killing people by driving by NOT DRIVING. "
Have you ever made a mistake in your life ...?
i bet if you asked this Driver .."How do you feel too be alive after the Accident ....I bet he would tell you ..He would rathrer be Dead ..
As someone previously said ..He has too live with the Deaths for the rest of his life....
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"you need to go have a look in mirror...
do u know ur perfectly healthy and will never black out at wheel of your car or have a heart attack...
really ur blaming a him..... give the guy a break.. most important thing about the fai is this never happens again"
Unless action is taken against this guy, it WILL happen again 'cos others will think they can get away with it.
This guy knew he had problems, allegedly going back 30+ years. |
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"I know someone who is a bus driver and he suffered a minor stroke a few years ago but his Dr notified the DVLA which he couldn't drive a public service bus for 1yr"
I lost my hgv licence after an accident. Not while driving I might say and suffering blackouts because of it. I will never be able to drive trucks again so that was my job and lively hood gone. DVLA must be notified about any medical condition like this if you drive for a living. I know of other people that this has happened too. It's not a nice thing to happen to anyone that relies on there driving licence to work to support a family. |
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Not sure what illness he has, but I have an epileptic friend who's had a few fits. After each incident he was banned from driving for 12 months. He's now on his 3rd ban, his fiancée is the driver now.
The DVLA would have been notified, and he wouldn't have been able to do a driving job without a licence. So the fact he was still working shows that there wasn't a problem for the authorities.
People lost their lives, and that's something the driver is going to have to live with. Sounds like punishment enough to me |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"I know someone who is a bus driver and he suffered a minor stroke a few years ago but his Dr notified the DVLA which he couldn't drive a public service bus for 1yr
I lost my hgv licence after an accident. Not while driving I might say and suffering blackouts because of it. I will never be able to drive trucks again so that was my job and lively hood gone. DVLA must be notified about any medical condition like this if you drive for a living. I know of other people that this has happened too. It's not a nice thing to happen to anyone that relies on there driving licence to work to support a family. "
It's not just if you drive for a living. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Not sure what illness he has, but I have an epileptic friend who's had a few fits. After each incident he was banned from driving for 12 months. He's now on his 3rd ban, his fiancée is the driver now.
The DVLA would have been notified, and he wouldn't have been able to do a driving job without a licence. So the fact he was still working shows that there wasn't a problem for the authorities.
People lost their lives, and that's something the driver is going to have to live with. Sounds like punishment enough to me "
The DVLA SHOULD have been notified. The evidence led indicates they weren't. |
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"I know someone who is a bus driver and he suffered a minor stroke a few years ago but his Dr notified the DVLA which he couldn't drive a public service bus for 1yr
I lost my hgv licence after an accident. Not while driving I might say and suffering blackouts because of it. I will never be able to drive trucks again so that was my job and lively hood gone. DVLA must be notified about any medical condition like this if you drive for a living. I know of other people that this has happened too. It's not a nice thing to happen to anyone that relies on there driving licence to work to support a family.
It's not just if you drive for a living."
That's true but you are more a risk if you do. So Dvla say even if you're using medication to controll your illness and not suffering blackouts anymore |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Not sure what illness he has, but I have an epileptic friend who's had a few fits. After each incident he was banned from driving for 12 months. He's now on his 3rd ban, his fiancée is the driver now.
The DVLA would have been notified, and he wouldn't have been able to do a driving job without a licence. So the fact he was still working shows that there wasn't a problem for the authorities.
People lost their lives, and that's something the driver is going to have to live with. Sounds like punishment enough to me
The DVLA SHOULD have been notified. The evidence led indicates they weren't."
And you would notify DVLA too if you had any health issues ?
Knowing you had a Family to support.?
I dont think so my friend.
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"Not sure what illness he has, but I have an epileptic friend who's had a few fits. After each incident he was banned from driving for 12 months. He's now on his 3rd ban, his fiancée is the driver now.
The DVLA would have been notified, and he wouldn't have been able to do a driving job without a licence. So the fact he was still working shows that there wasn't a problem for the authorities.
People lost their lives, and that's something the driver is going to have to live with. Sounds like punishment enough to me
The DVLA SHOULD have been notified. The evidence led indicates they weren't."
I can't comment on that as I don't know what the evidence is |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Not sure what illness he has, but I have an epileptic friend who's had a few fits. After each incident he was banned from driving for 12 months. He's now on his 3rd ban, his fiancée is the driver now.
The DVLA would have been notified, and he wouldn't have been able to do a driving job without a licence. So the fact he was still working shows that there wasn't a problem for the authorities.
People lost their lives, and that's something the driver is going to have to live with. Sounds like punishment enough to me
The DVLA SHOULD have been notified. The evidence led indicates they weren't.
And you would notify DVLA too if you had any health issues ?
Knowing you had a Family to support.?
I dont think so my friend.
"
Yes. I have done so. I've mentioned it on Fab previously.
The 'family to support' is irrelevant. 6 people had to die so he could support a family. |
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"Not sure what illness he has, but I have an epileptic friend who's had a few fits. After each incident he was banned from driving for 12 months. He's now on his 3rd ban, his fiancée is the driver now.
The DVLA would have been notified, and he wouldn't have been able to do a driving job without a licence. So the fact he was still working shows that there wasn't a problem for the authorities.
People lost their lives, and that's something the driver is going to have to live with. Sounds like punishment enough to me
The DVLA SHOULD have been notified. The evidence led indicates they weren't.
And you would notify DVLA too if you had any health issues ?
Knowing you had a Family to support.?
I dont think so my friend.
Yes I would and did my friend
"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Not sure what illness he has, but I have an epileptic friend who's had a few fits. After each incident he was banned from driving for 12 months. He's now on his 3rd ban, his fiancée is the driver now.
The DVLA would have been notified, and he wouldn't have been able to do a driving job without a licence. So the fact he was still working shows that there wasn't a problem for the authorities.
People lost their lives, and that's something the driver is going to have to live with. Sounds like punishment enough to me
The DVLA SHOULD have been notified. The evidence led indicates they weren't.
And you would notify DVLA too if you had any health issues ?
Knowing you had a Family to support.?
I dont think so my friend.
Yes. I have done so. I've mentioned it on Fab previously.
The 'family to support' is irrelevant. 6 people had to die so he could support a family."
Harsh
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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago
south east |
Yes i agree a tragic accident but im sorry the driver involved HAS to be held accountable ( yes i know he has to live with what happened .. but so have all the families of those tragicly killed)..purely because of his deceipt by lying on his dvla assessment and council job application ...had he been truthful on those ..i believe he knew he wouldnt be allowed to drive that bin lorry for a living..the questions on these forms are there for a purpose
 |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Not sure what illness he has, but I have an epileptic friend who's had a few fits. After each incident he was banned from driving for 12 months. He's now on his 3rd ban, his fiancée is the driver now.
The DVLA would have been notified, and he wouldn't have been able to do a driving job without a licence. So the fact he was still working shows that there wasn't a problem for the authorities.
People lost their lives, and that's something the driver is going to have to live with. Sounds like punishment enough to me
The DVLA SHOULD have been notified. The evidence led indicates they weren't.
And you would notify DVLA too if you had any health issues ?
Knowing you had a Family to support.?
I dont think so my friend.
Yes. I have done so. I've mentioned it on Fab previously.
The 'family to support' is irrelevant. 6 people had to die so he could support a family.
Harsh
"
Yet true.
Harsher yet for those left behind. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes i agree a tragic accident but im sorry the driver involved HAS to be held accountable ( yes i know he has to live with what happened .. but so have all the families of those tragicly killed)..purely because of his deceipt by lying on his dvla assessment and council job application ...had he been truthful on those ..i believe he knew he wouldnt be allowed to drive that bin lorry for a living..the questions on these forms are there for a purpose
"
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Are you not meant to tell the DVLA about blackouts etc? If so would he have been able to get a driving job to be able to have the blackout that killed a lot of people?"
Yes many things are meant to be disclosed to the dvla but most don't. Wonder how many reading/posting have driven a vehicle when they shouldn't be from illness or hungover etc |
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"Yes i agree a tragic accident but im sorry the driver involved HAS to be held accountable ( yes i know he has to live with what happened .. but so have all the families of those tragicly killed)..purely because of his deceipt by lying on his dvla assessment and council job application ...had he been truthful on those ..i believe he knew he wouldnt be allowed to drive that bin lorry for a living..the questions on these forms are there for a purpose
"
the bit everyone is missing......there is no need to contact the dvla if he dosnt have a medical condition what we know is he has blacked out so have many on these forums.....he has felt dizzy again many here also have all these folk contacted the dvla. Not many know the facts of this case save for the accused and possibly the cps.....and they decided no case to prosecute |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"you need to go have a look in mirror...
do u know ur perfectly healthy and will never black out at wheel of your car or have a heart attack...
really ur blaming a him..... give the guy a break.. most important thing about the fai is this never happens again"
Exactly... Anyone of us could take ill or worse die while driving.... |
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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago
south east |
"the bit everyone is missing......there is no need to contact the dvla if he dosnt have a medical condition what we know is he has blacked out so have many on these forums.....he has felt dizzy again many here also have all these folk contacted the dvla. Not many know the facts of this case save for the accused and possibly the cps.....and they decided no case to prosecute"
He "Allegedly" lied on his dvla hgv assessment form by not declaring his blackouts and dizziness ..a question which is asked on the form if that is the case then he obtained his renewal by deception |
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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago
south east |
" Anyone of us could take ill or worse die while driving...."
Theres a difference between unexpectedly taking ill or worse behind the wheel and getting behind the wheel knowing theres a chance due to your medical history ..and not letting the authorities decide if your fit or not |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As someone who knows about trucks and stuff..theres a huge difference between feeling dizzy and driving your car. And driving a 20ton plus truck.. I had my hgv medical a few weeks ago, the doctor spent alot of time on the dizzy questions, blackouts etc... Trucks are a lethal weapon. There is no stopping them if you lose control.
From what i can gather evem if there is no criminal charges this man will now be pursued for compensation personally as Glasgow council now have a get out clause.. Ie he lied on application.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I knew 3 of the people killed really well. Not been able to read a papper its to tragic. However going by what Iv heard on the news . The driver lied on his medical history. Was told to stop driving by his own doctor. He continued . This resulted in 6 innocent people lossing there life. Any many many more destroyed. I hope it haunts him for ever. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes it's completely tragic what has happened but no prison sentence will be harder than the guilt the driver has to live with for the rest of his life.
Personally I don't think the media should be naming and shaming him the way they are, because there are idiots who can't see sense or rationale and look for trouble. Not only will he suffer the public backlash and humiliation on top of the guilt but his family will too.
The newspapers always flower up a story and we never get the real facts unless you read the independent re_iew.
Bless those that lost their lives and bless all of those involved. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I knew 3 of the people killed really well. Not been able to read a papper its to tragic. However going by what Iv heard on the news . The driver lied on his medical history. Was told to stop driving by his own doctor. He continued . This resulted in 6 innocent people lossing there life. Any many many more destroyed. I hope it haunts him for ever."
So sorry for your loss and it's total tragic.
As far as I'm aware it's Upto the doctor to notify the DVLA.... So is he at fault? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There is an investigation ongoing, let it run its course. The inquiry is getting to the route causes.
Guess everyone thinks they should be part of the investigation team and by comments on here, judge too. |
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"I knew 3 of the people killed really well. Not been able to read a papper its to tragic. However going by what Iv heard on the news . The driver lied on his medical history. Was told to stop driving by his own doctor. He continued . This resulted in 6 innocent people lossing there life. Any many many more destroyed. I hope it haunts him for ever.
So sorry for your loss and it's total tragic.
As far as I'm aware it's Upto the doctor to notify the DVLA.... So is he at fault? "
It's not up to the doctor to notify Dvla that is the drivers responsibility. But can you trust them to notify Dvla know that they will lose their licence. I told Dvla about my blackouts and medication and lost my licence for a year so my body could get used to the medication and not cause anymore blackouts.
The doctors should be telling Dvla about any health problems that someone has that could be a danger to others while driving. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"I knew 3 of the people killed really well. Not been able to read a papper its to tragic. However going by what Iv heard on the news . The driver lied on his medical history. Was told to stop driving by his own doctor. He continued . This resulted in 6 innocent people lossing there life. Any many many more destroyed. I hope it haunts him for ever.
So sorry for your loss and it's total tragic.
As far as I'm aware it's Upto the doctor to notify the DVLA.... So is he at fault?
It's not up to the doctor to notify Dvla that is the drivers responsibility. But can you trust them to notify Dvla know that they will lose their licence. I told Dvla about my blackouts and medication and lost my licence for a year so my body could get used to the medication and not cause anymore blackouts.
The doctors should be telling Dvla about any health problems that someone has that could be a danger to others while driving. "
It's the patient's responsibility to tell the DVLA. |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
The man sounds like he didn't declare his health to the Council who employed him at least, so although yes he probably wanted the job to live, there are other jobs that would have been more suited to him and were much safer for other people.
Sadly he now has to live with his actions for the rest of his life as I am sure he must regret what has happened.
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"Yes it's completely tragic what has happened but no prison sentence will be harder than the guilt the driver has to live with for the rest of his life.
Personally I don't think the media should be naming and shaming him the way they are, because there are idiots who can't see sense or rationale and look for trouble. Not only will he suffer the public backlash and humiliation on top of the guilt but his family will too.
The newspapers always flower up a story and we never get the real facts unless you read the independent re_iew.
Bless those that lost their lives and bless all of those involved. "
exactly this the media need to generate drama very seldom do they deal in facts. As ive said above very _iew know the facts. What we know the cps feel there is no further action needed |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Bottom line harry knew if he told the truth he wouldnt have got a job as. A driver. Most people lie about something on cv,s . However this had tragic out come. Believe me to see a man who was so strong and full of fun. To be in total bits. To witness a woman who lost her dad, mum, and daughter . All in seconds. Lessons need to be learned. If your a risk to other people through health reasons. You need to be honest. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Most jobs today, you sign and agree for the employer to obtain & _iew your medical records"
Agreed Lee...
I also believe The Employer has a responsibility too investigate any of their Staff.Routine checks should be imperative especially Employees within the Public Sector.
Hundreds and hundreds of people (not just driving) are working in an enviroment that are not only in danger to themselves but to others.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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no doubt there'll be a story about him going on holiday,having a pint etc etc..
if any sentence is deserved I'd say some sort of community service
I've no idea what a prison sentence would achieve
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"no doubt there'll be a story about him going on holiday,having a pint etc etc..
if any sentence is deserved I'd say some sort of community service
I've no idea what a prison sentence would achieve
"
There'll be no criminal charges. Everyone involved wants to get on and ensure it never happens again. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I've no idea what a prison sentence would achieve
He is probably living his own sentance"
Thats not enough for some people as you know though..and the press most likely will pounce on this too |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"
I've no idea what a prison sentence would achieve
He is probably living his own sentance
Thats not enough for some people as you know though..and the press most likely will pounce on this too"
I can understand why though, if it was one of my family I don't know what I would want to happen, it is easy for us lot who are not involved to say him having to live with it is probably bad enough. |
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"I dont believe for a minute that everyone who is in Employment is totally honest regards to their Health.There are people with underlying illnesses that have no control of their own ..Diabetes Asthma attacks Heart Attacks etc .I think this Driver must be totally devasted the thought of his illness has caused.There was no intent to drive the Lorry in how he did.
It is sad for the People who perished in this accident.The Driver had no control over his actions
People always look for someone to blame ..
God Bless tThem x
"
. As the driver had a previous history of blackouts , he should not have been driving lgvs . He appears to have ignored the rules about informing. the dvla and was dismissed from his previous employer . |
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By *wiftieeMan
over a year ago
near Glasgow |
As the FAI continues, there's a 2nd issue coming out.
I think it's possible to accept that the accident was that, a horrible tragic accident. There was no intent or anything like that.
However, the issue that's coming to the fore is the driver's medical/health history. And it would seem pretty incontrovertible that the driver has ignored health issues which he must have known would render him unable to drive at least an hgv. Also, he has blatantly lied on official forms, and it's these 2 issues where he should be facing prosecution.
Hgv drivers losing there licences for medical/health reasons is a regular occurrence, and many have a real struggle to get them back when their health genuinely returns to normal. This guy has been caught for a catalogue of offences, and imho, should be dealt with accordingly. |
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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago
south east |
"As the FAI continues, there's a 2nd issue coming out.
I think it's possible to accept that the accident was that, a horrible tragic accident. There was no intent or anything like that.
However, the issue that's coming to the fore is the driver's medical/health history. And it would seem pretty incontrovertible that the driver has ignored health issues which he must have known would render him unable to drive at least an hgv. Also, he has blatantly lied on official forms, and it's these 2 issues where he should be facing prosecution.
Hgv drivers losing there licences for medical/health reasons is a regular occurrence, and many have a real struggle to get them back when their health genuinely returns to normal. This guy has been caught for a catalogue of offences, and imho, should be dealt with accordingly. "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I knew 3 of the people killed really well. Not been able to read a papper its to tragic. However going by what Iv heard on the news . The driver lied on his medical history. Was told to stop driving by his own doctor. He continued . This resulted in 6 innocent people lossing there life. Any many many more destroyed. I hope it haunts him for ever.
So sorry for your loss and it's total tragic.
As far as I'm aware it's Upto the doctor to notify the DVLA.... So is he at fault? "
No, it's your own responsibly to tell the dvla, not your gp. |
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"As far as I'm aware it's Upto the doctor to notify the DVLA.... So is he at fault?
No, it's your own responsibly to tell the dvla, not your gp. "
So if it's the case that people are not telling the DVLA themselves, perhaps it should be a mandatory requirement for GP practices to inform them? |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"As far as I'm aware it's Upto the doctor to notify the DVLA.... So is he at fault?
No, it's your own responsibly to tell the dvla, not your gp.
So if it's the case that people are not telling the DVLA themselves, perhaps it should be a mandatory requirement for GP practices to inform them? "
Perhaps it should but where would the list of 'notifiable' conditions end? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I remember years ago some guy in a Range Rover had an epileptic fit in Glasgow killed 2 people. Never disclosed to the dvla about his condition.. Was he jailed? |
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"
So if it's the case that people are not telling the DVLA themselves, perhaps it should be a mandatory requirement for GP practices to inform them? "
So would people be scared of telling symptoms to a GP then? I know i would be. |
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What exactly is it that you want to happen to the driver?
It is not a criminal offence to fail to declare a condition to DVLA and neither is it a criminal offence to mislead a potential employer by not declaring things on an application form.
A Council vehicle killed the pedestrians. The Council are liable for the actions of their employees - not that the families have sought compensation
The guy drove daily without incident. He did not deliberately intend to harm anyone and his driving - under the law - was not dangerous. He took ill.
If the Crown could have prosecuted him it would have. But there being no reasonable prospect of conviction it couldn't.
The Inquiry is to look into the facts and circumstances of the incident and to make recommendations to avoid such a situation happening again.
This could be to stop such vehicles in town at such busy times and to have a fail safe mechanism built in.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As far as I'm aware it's Upto the doctor to notify the DVLA.... So is he at fault?
No, it's your own responsibly to tell the dvla, not your gp.
So if it's the case that people are not telling the DVLA themselves, perhaps it should be a mandatory requirement for GP practices to inform them? "
I concur, the GP should, that's assuming they know the patient has a driving licence. However, are GP's allowed to discuss a patients medical circumstances with anyone other than the patient? |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Dvla said he could drive. So who to blame? Dvla, him or the gp? Silly from people calling for prosecution. He is not guilty of anything."
DVLA didn't have all the facts cos he didn't tell them. |
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"Dvla said he could drive. So who to blame? Dvla, him or the gp? Silly from people calling for prosecution. He is not guilty of anything.
DVLA didn't have all the facts cos he didn't tell them."
ffs how do you know he didnt you assume from what you read in the media.......well known for dealing in fact. Heres an idea put faith in the cps and their measures for prosecution |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Dvla said he could drive. So who to blame? Dvla, him or the gp? Silly from people calling for prosecution. He is not guilty of anything.
DVLA didn't have all the facts cos he didn't tell them.ffs how do you know he didnt you assume from what you read in the media.......well known for dealing in fact. Heres an idea put faith in the cps and their measures for prosecution"
The CPS writ doesn't run in Scotland.
Evidence has been led and corroborated so we know he didn't tell the DVLA.
I dunno why people are so keen to make this guy out to be the victim in this matter. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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: "The driver would have needed to have been through several health checks in the last few years. He would have been required to pass tests with his previous employer, would have required a clean bill of health to satisfy the DVLA for a HGV licence and then passed whatever additional tests Glasgow City Council carry out."
Seems some of you are misinformed. Furthermore cps is English, copfs is Scotland.
Accept driver is not to blame here. Sorry to burst some bubbles |
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Onny you know nothing apart from what you have read......you were there when he blackedout....you attended his doctors during diagnosis.....you helped fill in the forms.....you handled the forms .....no you read snippets of info and jumped to a conclusion never mind that the snippets you read were designed to lead you to a conclusion. If the cps feel there is no further case to answer thats enough for me or should we get out the pitch forks ? |
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"Dvla said he could drive. So who to blame? Dvla, him or the gp? Silly from people calling for prosecution. He is not guilty of anything.
DVLA didn't have all the facts cos he didn't tell them.ffs how do you know he didnt you assume from what you read in the media.......well known for dealing in fact. Heres an idea put faith in the cps and their measures for prosecution
The CPS writ doesn't run in Scotland.
Evidence has been led and corroborated so we know he didn't tell the DVLA.
I dunno why people are so keen to make this guy out to be the victim in this matter."
None of us know the facts, unless they were in court/at the enquiry. People are making assumptions on what is written in the paper, which never has all the facts because boring stuff doesn't sell papers.
I only commented on the fact that those deaths will haunt him for the rest of his days, and raised the question of GPs being required to inform the DVLA. How that could happen would require a lot of work by them, and there will probably always be loopholes because there always is.
I don't know what the solution would be, but if the procurator fiscal has decided there is no charge, then I would hope that they've made an informed decision, because that is their job. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Dvla said he could drive. So who to blame? Dvla, him or the gp? Silly from people calling for prosecution. He is not guilty of anything.
DVLA didn't have all the facts cos he didn't tell them.ffs how do you know he didnt you assume from what you read in the media.......well known for dealing in fact. Heres an idea put faith in the cps and their measures for prosecution
The CPS writ doesn't run in Scotland.
Evidence has been led and corroborated so we know he didn't tell the DVLA.
I dunno why people are so keen to make this guy out to be the victim in this matter.
None of us know the facts, unless they were in court/at the enquiry. People are making assumptions on what is written in the paper, which never has all the facts because boring stuff doesn't sell papers.
I only commented on the fact that those deaths will haunt him for the rest of his days, and raised the question of GPs being required to inform the DVLA. How that could happen would require a lot of work by them, and there will probably always be loopholes because there always is.
I don't know what the solution would be, but if the procurator fiscal has decided there is no charge, then I would hope that they've made an informed decision, because that is their job. "
Reporting as fact, evidence which was not led in court is contempt of court.
We're now on Day 9 of the FAI and nobody has claimed any of the evidence repeated in the media is contempt. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"I remember years ago some guy in a Range Rover had an epileptic fit in Glasgow killed 2 people. Never disclosed to the dvla about his condition.. Was he jailed?
Nah."
Update from The Herald.
THE families of two students who were killed by a driver with a history of blackouts have made a formal complaint to the Crown Office over the way their case was dealt with.
Friends Laura Stewart, 20, and Mhairi Convy, 18, were hit by driver William Payne when he passed out at the wheel of his Range Rover in North Hanover Street, Glasgow, in December 2010.
He had suffered six previous blackouts and failed to notify the DVLA about them. However the Crown Office revealed earlier this year that they will not prosecute the driver. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Onny you know nothing apart from what you have read......you were there when he blackedout....you attended his doctors during diagnosis.....you helped fill in the forms.....you handled the forms .....no you read snippets of info and jumped to a conclusion never mind that the snippets you read were designed to lead you to a conclusion. If the cps feel there is no further case to answer thats enough for me or should we get out the pitch forks ?"
This is the Fab forums, pitchforks and snippets of misinformation are mandatory!  |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Really wish this tread was shut down. Knew the 3 people from Dumbarton who lost there life that day. Find it so upsetting seeing all the details ."
How do you deal with the coverage in the press. on the telly or on the radio? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Really wish this tread was shut down. Knew the 3 people from Dumbarton who lost there life that day. Find it so upsetting seeing all the details .
How do you deal with the coverage in the press. on the telly or on the radio?"
Don't read the pappers when the news comes on just turn it over when I here it mentioned . |
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"Really wish this tread was shut down. Knew the 3 people from Dumbarton who lost there life that day. Find it so upsetting seeing all the details .
How do you deal with the coverage in the press. on the telly or on the radio?
Don't read the pappers when the news comes on just turn it over when I here it mentioned ."
you can also choose not to read this post |
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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago
Falkirk |
Having read this (it took a while) and as an HGV driver, can I just say I think it was a terrible accident. I don't believe that the driver set off from the depot that morning with the specific intent to kill 6 people.
That being said, I can't help but wonder whether he should have been driving at all without extensive medical investigations into past blackouts.
I know a driver who got his license back 6 weeks after a quadruple bypass last summer but who hasn't driven an HGV yet because he still doesn't feel well enough to do so. His case WAS reported to the DVLA by his cardiac specialist. Another driver has had 9 weeks suspension this summer because of an ear infection. Again, this was reported to the DVLA by his GP.
So, my question is - who SHOULD be responsible for making the decision to drive or not?
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By *iewMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Angus & Findhorn |
"
So, my question is - who SHOULD be responsible for making the decision to drive or not?
"
Him.... and he was wrong if the evidence is correct.
and he will live with it for the rest of his life. |
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By *teve_D1Man
over a year ago
Edinburgh |
"Really wish this tread was shut down. Knew the 3 people from Dumbarton who lost there life that day. Find it so upsetting seeing all the details ."
Then don't read the thread, quite simple really. Almost as if your pulling for attention that you knew 3 of them. |
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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago
Falkirk |
"
So, my question is - who SHOULD be responsible for making the decision to drive or not?
Him.... and he was wrong if the evidence is correct.
and he will live with it for the rest of his life."
See, I don't think it should be down to the driver, I believe it should be the health professional who should inform the DVLA and then investigate the medical causes promptly so as to avoid lengthy delays. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Really wish this tread was shut down. Knew the 3 people from Dumbarton who lost there life that day. Find it so upsetting seeing all the details .
How do you deal with the coverage in the press. on the telly or on the radio?
Don't read the pappers when the news comes on just turn it over when I here it mentioned .you can also choose not to read this post "
Actually, it's easier in Fab cos here you have to make a conscious decision to click on the Bin Lorry thread. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"I haven't read all the comments obviously the thread shows up on the forum when a new comment is posted. Anyway no long will I post on it now."
The thread title shows up but you have to click on it to read the posts you don't want to read. |
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By *iewMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Angus & Findhorn |
"
So, my question is - who SHOULD be responsible for making the decision to drive or not?
Him.... and he was wrong if the evidence is correct.
and he will live with it for the rest of his life.
See, I don't think it should be down to the driver, I believe it should be the health professional who should inform the DVLA and then investigate the medical causes promptly so as to avoid lengthy delays. "
but if they haven't declared it, or sought medical advice and they continue driving knowing they may black out.... a person is ultimately responsible for their own actions |
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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago
Falkirk |
"
and he will live with it for the rest of his life.
See, I don't think it should be down to the driver, I believe it should be the health professional who should inform the DVLA and then investigate the medical causes promptly so as to avoid lengthy delays.
but if they haven't declared it, or sought medical advice and they continue driving knowing they may black out.... a person is ultimately responsible for their own actions"
Ok, I agree with people being responsible for their own actions but in this case, he has had several medicals to keep his licence so surely it's down to the doctor carrying out the medical to only pass him fit AFTER seeing his FULL medical history.
If that had been the case, doctors that have taken the stand during the FAI have admitted they wouldn't have allowed him to continue to drive and would have notified the DVLA |
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it's sad when u read the story in the paper. but even worse when u know the people and spent time in there company. it makes it hard to feel sorry for someone who choose to put others at risk for his own personal gain. there are many jobs out there which don't require driving.
I think no matter what punishment he faces now it will be nothing compared to his own torment he needs to go through. don't imagine he gets much sleep at night and certainly won't get much sympathy |
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By *iewMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Angus & Findhorn |
"
and he will live with it for the rest of his life.
See, I don't think it should be down to the driver, I believe it should be the health professional who should inform the DVLA and then investigate the medical causes promptly so as to avoid lengthy delays.
but if they haven't declared it, or sought medical advice and they continue driving knowing they may black out.... a person is ultimately responsible for their own actions
Ok, I agree with people being responsible for their own actions but in this case, he has had several medicals to keep his licence so surely it's down to the doctor carrying out the medical to only pass him fit AFTER seeing his FULL medical history.
If that had been the case, doctors that have taken the stand during the FAI have admitted they wouldn't have allowed him to continue to drive and would have notified the DVLA "
I am happy to agree to disagree. He knew he had blackouts and he chose to drive a lorry capable of inflicting injury or death to others, and he/it did. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"
and he will live with it for the rest of his life.
See, I don't think it should be down to the driver, I believe it should be the health professional who should inform the DVLA and then investigate the medical causes promptly so as to avoid lengthy delays.
but if they haven't declared it, or sought medical advice and they continue driving knowing they may black out.... a person is ultimately responsible for their own actions
Ok, I agree with people being responsible for their own actions but in this case, he has had several medicals to keep his licence so surely it's down to the doctor carrying out the medical to only pass him fit AFTER seeing his FULL medical history.
If that had been the case, doctors that have taken the stand during the FAI have admitted they wouldn't have allowed him to continue to drive and would have notified the DVLA "
Doctors have no responsibility to report to the authorities, except in the case of a notifiable disease (like ebola).
A patient who knew a doctor was obliged to report their condition to eg DVLA might be discouraged from seeing a doctor.
People have to take responsibility for their own actions and behaviour. |
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By *oxy_minxWoman
over a year ago
Scotland - Aberdeen |
"
and he will live with it for the rest of his life.
See, I don't think it should be down to the driver, I believe it should be the health professional who should inform the DVLA and then investigate the medical causes promptly so as to avoid lengthy delays.
but if they haven't declared it, or sought medical advice and they continue driving knowing they may black out.... a person is ultimately responsible for their own actions
Ok, I agree with people being responsible for their own actions but in this case, he has had several medicals to keep his licence so surely it's down to the doctor carrying out the medical to only pass him fit AFTER seeing his FULL medical history.
If that had been the case, doctors that have taken the stand during the FAI have admitted they wouldn't have allowed him to continue to drive and would have notified the DVLA
Doctors have no responsibility to report to the authorities, except in the case of a notifiable disease (like ebola).
A patient who knew a doctor was obliged to report their condition to eg DVLA might be discouraged from seeing a doctor.
People have to take responsibility for their own actions and behaviour."
From what I have heard, he was dismissed from a bus company because of his medical condition and either lied to the council or the council didn't follow through on health checks, one way or another he should not have been driving a deadly machine, quite simple in my eyes |
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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago
Falkirk |
I think it comes down to his inability to admit he was ill and a lack of legislation requiring medical staff to inform the DVLA when there is a problem that could affect someone's ability to control a motor vehicle.
But again, as I said before, this was a tragic accident with dire, life changing consequences for the 6 people who died, their families, friends, work colleagues, and people they spoke to in the paper shop as well as the people involved in the accident and emergency workers too  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The thing is, if reports are correct and the driver petitioned the DVLA to get his HGV licence back in April (I believe it was again revoked in June) after having taken so many lives...in not sure "having to live with it every day" is enough. To me that action alone shows a flagrant disregard and indeed disrespect for his victims and their families. Even after all this he still believes he is fit to drive....i'm at a loss to understand such actions. |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"I think it comes down to his inability to admit he was ill and a lack of legislation requiring medical staff to inform the DVLA when there is a problem that could affect someone's ability to control a motor vehicle.
"
You would have to rely on the person telling his or her doctor...so it seems this man didn't tell it as it was and said his dizzy spell was in a canteen but it was really at the wheel of a bus. |
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This is going to be a very emotive topic well after the enquiry concludes.
I note that one or two believe that the council failed in their duty regarding the employment of this individual. A topic Mr S and I debate regularly.
Yes, some employers make it a contractual requirement to undergo a medical exam with their own OH provider - the exam is only as good as the information provided.
The employer then have to decide whether or not to approach the employees Dr for a full medical report. However, the employee has the right to refuse, the right to _iew and the right to request information is removed from the report.
Data protection, human rights and employment law are often barriers to ensuring that the employee is fit and healthy to do the job they are employed to do. Until such times as the government remove those barriers loopholes can and will be found.
Did he gave a medical condition that caused him to black out - I don't know, there appears to be evidence that there was an issue.
Could his employer prevented it - yes if they knew.
Is the employer liable - if they knew or had reason to believe there was a health condition then yes.
Could he have prevented it - if he knew then yes by disclosing his medical history
Could anyone else - the previous employer if it is true they were aware by disclosing it in his reference
Should he be prosecuted - if the accident was due to a badly maintained vehicle would you be asking that GCC be held liable? Probably, therefore if he knew he had a health condition that could result in him losing control of the vehicle then yes, am afraid he is liable.
Mrs S |
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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago
Falkirk |
"I think it comes down to his inability to admit he was ill and a lack of legislation requiring medical staff to inform the DVLA when there is a problem that could affect someone's ability to control a motor vehicle.
You would have to rely on the person telling his or her doctor...so it seems this man didn't tell it as it was and said his dizzy spell was in a canteen but it was really at the wheel of a bus."
But his doctor had access to his records and has admitted that there were numerous incidents over the years. So why didn't that doctor do something? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What exactly is it that you want to happen to the driver?
It is not a criminal offence to fail to declare a condition to DVLA and neither is it a criminal offence to mislead a potential employer by not declaring things on an application form.
"
This is the crux of it and it's this that I think needs to change - by all accounts thus driver and many others have blatant disregard for the DVLA notification process, which is there to prevent such tragedies, so the penalty for not declaring to the best of your knowledge any medical condition that *may* potentially affect your ability to control a vehicle had to be much, much harsher.
The fact the bin lorry driver re-applied for an HGV licence this year beggars belief to me, and to me would indicate he doesn't give a damn about the lives he's taken or those he could take again if he blacks out again |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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100% spot on . Untill the facts had come out over the last few weeks I felt sorry for him but not now
I do think over the coming weeks he will be charged |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"100% spot on . Untill the facts had come out over the last few weeks I felt sorry for him but not now
I do think over the coming weeks he will be charged "
That's tricky. He's due to give evidence later this week or early next and he has to know whether he has any chance of being charged so he isn't obliged to incriminate himself.
Do we want someone blamed (and punished) or do we want to know what happened? |
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There will be no prosecution. The Crown had publicly given an undertaking that he would not be charged with an offence and hence we have a Fatal Accident Inquiry.
The Crown cannot change its' position because the decision was made having regard to the facts and circumstances of the incident. The driver was unconscious. He was not responsible for his actions and did not deliberately go to work to hurt or kill anyone. He was trying to make a living.
Yes the Crown has cleverly led evidence that makes the driver out to be a cold calculated monster - the Solicitor General at her best.
But he is not guilty of a criminal offence. Despite the fact that most of Scotland would seemingly convict him on the basis of the evidence led to date - so he could never get a fair trial
The incident was horrible and tragic. But it could have been any one of us driving. |
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"100% spot on . Untill the facts had come out over the last few weeks I felt sorry for him but not now
I do think over the coming weeks he will be charged
That's tricky. He's due to give evidence later this week or early next and he has to know whether he has any chance of being charged so he isn't obliged to incriminate himself.
Do we want someone blamed (and punished) or do we want to know what happened?"
Not often I agree with you Onny ,but this time your spot on. I think we want to know why it happened, which is what the FAI is about... But I think we try to use it to apportion blame.
As a side note I think it is shocking and callous that this individual, has applied for his HGV license back.
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"100% spot on . Untill the facts had come out over the last few weeks I felt sorry for him but not now
I do think over the coming weeks he will be charged
That's tricky. He's due to give evidence later this week or early next and he has to know whether he has any chance of being charged so he isn't obliged to incriminate himself.
Do we want someone blamed (and punished) or do we want to know what happened?
Not often I agree with you Onny ,but this time your spot on. I think we want to know why it happened, which is what the FAI is about... But I think we try to use it to apportion blame.
As a side note I think it is shocking and callous that this individual, has applied for his HGV license back.
"
believing what we read is the biggest problem. most of what we read has been designed to lead us in a direction. if it was a trial and we were to only read the defence story would it not be a diffrent story.the biggest problem is everyone seems to think they know best instead of accepting there are folk know far better what has happened.and are in a better position to put any punishments in place |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"The inquiry into the George Square bin lorry crash has heard the driver will not face any criminal charges, despite claims he lied to the DVLA, doctors and his employers.
The Crown Office confirmed in February that Harry Clarke would not be prosecuted for his involvement in the disaster, however the sheriff in the Fatal Accident Inquiry had asked officials to confirm if he was to be prosecuted for fraud.
Solicitor General Lesley Thomson this morning confirmed that he will not be prosecuted for anything, in line with the statement issued by the Crown earlier this year."
Well, that's his get out of jail free card in place.
What will he try to hide behind now? Too ill to attend court? |
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Get out of Jail Free Card?
What is the imprisonable offence that he has allegedly committed?
He did not drive carelessly and he did not drive dangerously. He was unconscious
He cannot be compelled to give evidence that may incriminate him.
A Senior Procurator Fiscal recently got her job back despite having pled guilty to a charge of dangerous driving where she deliberately carried out a reckless manoeuvre that led to a collision where both she and the driver of the other care were seriously injured. She had intent and disregard for the law.
This poor bloke took ill. |
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By *icky999Man
over a year ago
warrington |
they should prosecute him. new evedence has come to light; the solicitor general is a tit.
it was enevitable he would have further black outs. driving a twenty ton lorry it was enevitable someone would die.
no manslaughter, no dangerous driving, six counts of murder.
appling for hgv shows a sign of no remorse, he isn't living with shit every day. man doesnt give a fuck. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I can't believe he's applied for his licence again. I was in a car accident 5 years ago and getting behind the wheel again was one of the hardest things I've ever done, and the only person injured was me! I can't even begin to comprehend how he could drive an HGV again?! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The key word there is COULD. dose not mean he will. There is over two million drivers on the roads with Heath conditions In Scotland. Would help with traffic jams if they were of the road. Then there are d*unk drivers. Drivers on drugs. Drivers on medication. Were do you stop someone driving. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Get out of Jail Free Card?
What is the imprisonable offence that he has allegedly committed?
He did not drive carelessly and he did not drive dangerously. He was unconscious
He cannot be compelled to give evidence that may incriminate him.
A Senior Procurator Fiscal recently got her job back despite having pled guilty to a charge of dangerous driving where she deliberately carried out a reckless manoeuvre that led to a collision where both she and the driver of the other care were seriously injured. She had intent and disregard for the law.
This poor bloke took ill. "
Took ill doing something he shouldn't have been able to, if the DVLA knew of his history of passing out he's unlikely to have his licence so wouldn't have been able to KILL 6 people, 'poor bloke' my arse, 'fucking idiot' more like.
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Nobody from DVLA has definitively stated that having considered the facts and circumstances of this case that either his driving licence or HGV licence would have been revoked and he could not drive.
Even if they had it is likely that this would have been subject to some form of conditions or appeal procedure.
The driver did not intentionally go to work with the aim of killing or maiming anyone. An out of control bin lorry killed the innocents.
I am sure there are many people who have taken ill, dozed off or momentarily lost control of a vehicle when driving. Mass hysteria or hatred of one individual will not help bereaved families or avoid a repeat of this tragedy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The Big Q is why after killing Six people and knowing your unfit to drive a HGV you apply to renew it
Telling lies on the form it's Fraud
I don't think for a min he will give evidence in the inquest
The only people I feel sorry for are his victims . Wiped out by a guy who should not have been driving
Sad |
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By *ustyWoman
over a year ago
inverclyde |
my mum took a black out after driving a very short distance and decided that was it and she has not driven since, she could have hurt somebody else or herself, dvla was notified by her GP !!!
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regarding a former post on her NO the driver did not go yo work with the intention of killing any body BUT and a big but he did go to work knowing full well he had lied about his medical condition and had continued repeatedly to lie about it therefore putting peoples lives at risk Also he is now not going to be prosecuted for this carnage that he caused And no i for one dont think mass hysteria is involved Before i finish allways remember any one who drives is behind the wheel of a lethal weapon that can kill |
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Mr S here,
I agree that he lied and could be prosecuted under the 'Fraud' banner but as suggested to get the FAI he was told he would not be prosecuted over the deaths.
Who are we to judge this man how many of us too as Heather said get behind the wheel of a machine that could kill one or many people depending on the circumstance.
Have you started driving when your tired? taken some medication that you didnt bother reading the possible side effects which most likley will include the statement "may cause drowsiness do not operate heavy machinery" or drive? or forget to tell the DVLA/insurance about the pending 3 points on your license due to speeding. Or telling your insurance company you dont have anything that would impede your driving, or the car is parked on the driveway but really on the street. You havent modified the car but you have changed the stereo or put alloys on the car. Or when your driving you have been speeding or been an amber gambler. All of the above is the same as lying about your health, circumstances just to get behind the wheel of a car/bus/truck/motorbike.
If we all took a look at ourselves we will find we have done something similar in our time driving this driving and the people that were killed were very unfortunate that day that everything conspired to cause the accident. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Mr S here,
I agree that he lied and could be prosecuted under the 'Fraud' banner but as suggested to get the FAI he was told he would not be prosecuted over the deaths.
Who are we to judge this man how many of us too as Heather said get behind the wheel of a machine that could kill one or many people depending on the circumstance.
Have you started driving when your tired? taken some medication that you didnt bother reading the possible side effects which most likley will include the statement "may cause drowsiness do not operate heavy machinery" or drive? or forget to tell the DVLA/insurance about the pending 3 points on your license due to speeding. Or telling your insurance company you dont have anything that would impede your driving, or the car is parked on the driveway but really on the street. You havent modified the car but you have changed the stereo or put alloys on the car. Or when your driving you have been speeding or been an amber gambler. All of the above is the same as lying about your health, circumstances just to get behind the wheel of a car/bus/truck/motorbike.
If we all took a look at ourselves we will find we have done something similar in our time driving this driving and the people that were killed were very unfortunate that day that everything conspired to cause the accident."
This is EXACTLY how i feel about IT.
Well said Mrs S .....
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Mr S here,
I agree that he lied and could be prosecuted under the 'Fraud' banner but as suggested to get the FAI he was told he would not be prosecuted over the deaths.
Who are we to judge this man how many of us too as Heather said get behind the wheel of a machine that could kill one or many people depending on the circumstance.
Have you started driving when your tired? taken some medication that you didnt bother reading the possible side effects which most likley will include the statement "may cause drowsiness do not operate heavy machinery" or drive? or forget to tell the DVLA/insurance about the pending 3 points on your license due to speeding. Or telling your insurance company you dont have anything that would impede your driving, or the car is parked on the driveway but really on the street. You havent modified the car but you have changed the stereo or put alloys on the car. Or when your driving you have been speeding or been an amber gambler. All of the above is the same as lying about your health, circumstances just to get behind the wheel of a car/bus/truck/motorbike.
If we all took a look at ourselves we will find we have done something similar in our time driving this driving and the people that were killed were very unfortunate that day that everything conspired to cause the accident.
This is EXACTLY how i feel about IT.
Well said Mrs S .....
"
oops MR S ....sorry |
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Agree with Mr S
The news that the DVLA will not initiate proceedings comes as no surprise to me.
The incident was catastrophic. But I maintain it could have happened to anyone.
My thoughts are very much with the families that lost loved ones and not with seeking to punish the driver. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think this man has suffered enough. Ok he failed to disclose his medical history but anyone good man in a position where he was the sole provider for his family would do the same when faced with losing his livelihood . This blame culture needs to stop. What difference would it make if he was stoned or sent to jail for the rest of his life. This guy probably wishes he'd died too and yet instead of a wee bit of empathy and understanding that this could have happened to anyone we choose to persecute him. Bollocks! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think this man has suffered enough. Ok he failed to disclose his medical history but anyone good man in a position where he was the sole provider for his family would do the same when faced with losing his livelihood . This blame culture needs to stop. What difference would it make if he was stoned or sent to jail for the rest of his life. This guy probably wishes he'd died too and yet instead of a wee bit of empathy and understanding that this could have happened to anyone we choose to persecute him. Bollocks!"
as I pointed out earlier..the press are making this a witch hunt.I of course have sympathy and empathy for those who lost their lives and those affected.
What we are now seeing is the guy being photographed akin to mug shots(the type of shot thats made to make someone look worse in any situation), as if the guy's trying to throw everything back in the faces of anyone.
Soon it'll be a pic of him eating a bacon sandwich and the headline "BIN LORRY MURDERER EATS BACON ROLL" |
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By *icky999Man
over a year ago
warrington |
"I think this man has suffered enough. Ok he failed to disclose his medical history but anyone good man in a position where he was the sole provider for his family would do the same when faced with losing his livelihood . This blame culture needs to stop. What difference would it make if he was stoned or sent to jail for the rest of his life. This guy probably wishes he'd died too and yet instead of a wee bit of empathy and understanding that this could have happened to anyone we choose to persecute him. Bollocks!"
he could of got another dead end job that didnt risk the lives of other people.
blame culture? he killed six people? he knew he would black out again, he nrw a bin lorry was likely to kill someone.
the difference in sending him to jail would be a deterrent to stop other people and to stop him doing it again next week. he has already applied for his licence back, he couldnt give a dam about killing six people.
normaly when I'm left fuming on the forums its because of some nut. I cant believe so many decent people have got this wrong. |
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"I think this man has suffered enough. Ok he failed to disclose his medical history but anyone good man in a position where he was the sole provider for his family would do the same when faced with losing his livelihood . This blame culture needs to stop. What difference would it make if he was stoned or sent to jail for the rest of his life. This guy probably wishes he'd died too and yet instead of a wee bit of empathy and understanding that this could have happened to anyone we choose to persecute him. Bollocks!
he could of got another dead end job that didnt risk the lives of other people.
blame culture? he killed six people? he knew he would black out again, he nrw a bin lorry was likely to kill someone.
the difference in sending him to jail would be a deterrent to stop other people and to stop him doing it again next week. he has already applied for his licence back, he couldnt give a dam about killing six people.
normaly when I'm left fuming on the forums its because of some nut. I cant believe so many decent people have got this wrong. "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think this man has suffered enough. Ok he failed to disclose his medical history but anyone good man in a position where he was the sole provider for his family would do the same when faced with losing his livelihood . This blame culture needs to stop. What difference would it make if he was stoned or sent to jail for the rest of his life. This guy probably wishes he'd died too and yet instead of a wee bit of empathy and understanding that this could have happened to anyone we choose to persecute him. Bollocks!
he could of got another dead end job that didnt risk the lives of other people.
blame culture? he killed six people? he knew he would black out again, he nrw a bin lorry was likely to kill someone.
the difference in sending him to jail would be a deterrent to stop other people and to stop him doing it again next week. he has already applied for his licence back, he couldnt give a dam about killing six people.
normaly when I'm left fuming on the forums its because of some nut. I cant believe so many decent people have got this wrong. "
what other dead end job?-might be likely anything else he would have been crap at or he would be not wanted due his ability or age, perhaps most jobs dont have the security he needed..
I think glasgow has suffered many accidents in recent history, cant we agree it should be something that we provide solutions for and not jumping into punishment?-if there is any 'punishment'-why is prison the only thing on peoples minds..its hardly been a deterrent to many goal orientated criminal..
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"I think this man has suffered enough. Ok he failed to disclose his medical history but anyone good man in a position where he was the sole provider for his family would do the same when faced with losing his livelihood . This blame culture needs to stop. What difference would it make if he was stoned or sent to jail for the rest of his life. This guy probably wishes he'd died too and yet instead of a wee bit of empathy and understanding that this could have happened to anyone we choose to persecute him. Bollocks!
he could of got another dead end job that didnt risk the lives of other people.
blame culture? he killed six people? he knew he would black out again, he nrw a bin lorry was likely to kill someone.
the difference in sending him to jail would be a deterrent to stop other people and to stop him doing it again next week. he has already applied for his licence back, he couldnt give a dam about killing six people.
normaly when I'm left fuming on the forums its because of some nut. I cant believe so many decent people have got this wrong. "
the biggest problem with your train of thought is he hasnt admitted any of these blackouts. Why are folk so hell bent on what they read in the papers its more akin to fiction than fact. Lots of use of "allegation" "he may have" "in the suns opinion".perhaps its not that people have it wrong but place their faith in our system |
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By *icky999Man
over a year ago
warrington |
"I think this man has suffered enough. Ok he failed to disclose his medical history but anyone good man in a position where he was the sole provider for his family would do the same when faced with losing his livelihood . This blame culture needs to stop. What difference would it make if he was stoned or sent to jail for the rest of his life. This guy probably wishes he'd died too and yet instead of a wee bit of empathy and understanding that this could have happened to anyone we choose to persecute him. Bollocks!
he could of got another dead end job that didnt risk the lives of other people.
blame culture? he killed six people? he knew he would black out again, he nrw a bin lorry was likely to kill someone.
the difference in sending him to jail would be a deterrent to stop other people and to stop him doing it again next week. he has already applied for his licence back, he couldnt give a dam about killing six people.
normaly when I'm left fuming on the forums its because of some nut. I cant believe so many decent people have got this wrong. the biggest problem with your train of thought is he hasnt admitted any of these blackouts. Why are folk so hell bent on what they read in the papers its more akin to fiction than fact. Lots of use of "allegation" "he may have" "in the suns opinion".perhaps its not that people have it wrong but place their faith in our system "
the problem with your train of thought is every media outlet in the country has quoted documentary evidence and leading q.c's that he did admitted to the black outs 
do you have any proof there all lying? |
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Try reading them again at no point has the driver admitted it. The bus depot superviser said he believed he blacked out and others the medical evidence is also supposition. And if all this were actual fact and provable im sure there would be prosecution. Why not accept with the evidence available the prosecution decided there is no case to answer or do you really know better |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's a swinging site!!! Why the fuck would you want to post a topic about such a thing????
Unbelievable!!! "
Think you are new to the site...not everyone needs to talk about sex. Thanks for the input though...never knew about the sex side of things...wow |
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By *icky999Man
over a year ago
warrington |
"Try reading them again at no point has the driver admitted it. The bus depot superviser said he believed he blacked out and others the medical evidence is also supposition. And if all this were actual fact and provable im sure there would be prosecution. Why not accept with the evidence available the prosecution decided there is no case to answer or do you really know better"
dorothy bain qc qouted from his medical record there were reports of dizziness and fainting from him dated back to 1976 and said clarke was dizzy while driving a bus in 94. she added a cardiologist reported he had suffered from dizziness for four years.
a letter from first bus sent to a doctor at his gps practice said the driver had an episode ofloss of or impaired coconscious while on a stationary bus.
clearly its claimed he admitted it to his doctor.
who do you think is lying? dozens of reporters, the q.c's, the doctors or his colleagues? or every single one of them? |
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"Try reading them again at no point has the driver admitted it. The bus depot superviser said he believed he blacked out and others the medical evidence is also supposition. And if all this were actual fact and provable im sure there would be prosecution. Why not accept with the evidence available the prosecution decided there is no case to answer or do you really know better
dorothy bain qc qouted from his medical record there were reports of dizziness and fainting from him dated back to 1976 and said clarke was dizzy while driving a bus in 94. she added a cardiologist reported he had suffered from dizziness for four years.
a letter from first bus sent to a doctor at his gps practice said the driver had an episode ofloss of or impaired coconscious while on a stationary bus.
clearly its claimed he admitted it to his doctor.
who do you think is lying? dozens of reporters, the q.c's, the doctors or his colleagues? or every single one of them?"
there were reports of dizziness and fainting .....how many folk over this extended period of time have suffered from dizzieness or fainting .....cardiologist or any medical practioner listen to folks long term problems all the time but no diagnosis. Ergo fit and healthy in the eyes of our govt bus letter it is "claimed" by a third party that he was unconcious that dosnt say he was. He may have told his doctor about dizzy spells but there is no diagnosis of anything so in the eyes of the govt he is fit and well and able to work. The issues around filling out dvla forms and lying no one knows if he was lying as he there is no supporting evidence im an ordinary guy and thats my _iew ......now we have experts in this field who after re_iewing all this apparent obvious guilty evidence who say no case to answer it was an accident but that isnt good for some there must be a witchhunt and someone must be guilty |
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I have to declare an interest as one of my family's friends daughter lost her life that day....apart from the driver the council or god almighty to blame the biggest error took place in feb when the declaration of no criminal or manslaughter charges would be brought .knowing a fai was to commence and the outcome of that should have determined what came next ,,,,on a point of law the pf used to rush to take cases to court in what was claimed in the public interest ...when the fai is over watch for the civil law suits kicking in I know for certain the family I know are going down that road and the law society have asked for a judicial re_iew of the crowns prosecution or non prosecution policy as solicitors on both sides feel they have had no chance to present either a defence or a prosecution due to the declaration being made in feb without as we all know now .other mitigating factors which could be argued by solicitors in court |
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The decision taken by the Law Officers (Lord Advocate and Solicitor General) not to prosecute cannot be the subject of any challenge by Judicial Re_iew. They act independently and have the final say.
There can and will be no prosecution.
And a private prosecution has no chance of success |
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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago
Falkirk |
"The decision taken by the Law Officers (Lord Advocate and Solicitor General) not to prosecute cannot be the subject of any challenge by Judicial Re_iew. They act independently and have the final say.
There can and will be no prosecution.
And a private prosecution has no chance of success"
Whilst I agree with the first point, a private prosecution will always stand a chance as the burden of proof is less. That being said, I agree it is unlikely to succeed as there is no evidence that the driver intended to kill on that day. As I've said before, despite the medical history of the driver, sadly it was a tragic accident. |
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By *andACouple
over a year ago
glasgow |
" That being said, I agree it is unlikely to succeed as there is no evidence that the driver intended to kill on that day. As I've said before, despite the medical history of the driver, sadly it was a tragic accident. "
Whether he intended to kill or not won't matter though. You could argue someone who's had a few drinks doesn't intend to kill but if they do then they are liable. Also, I could be wrong, but hasn't there been cases of lorry drivers being prosecuted after it was shown they had caused an accident after not having enough rest and therefore driving whilst tired? They obviously don't intend to kill either. |
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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago
Falkirk |
" That being said, I agree it is unlikely to succeed as there is no evidence that the driver intended to kill on that day. As I've said before, despite the medical history of the driver, sadly it was a tragic accident.
Whether he intended to kill or not won't matter though. You could argue someone who's had a few drinks doesn't intend to kill but if they do then they are liable. Also, I could be wrong, but hasn't there been cases of lorry drivers being prosecuted after it was shown they had caused an accident after not having enough rest and therefore driving whilst tired? They obviously don't intend to kill either."
True, but drivers who break the rules are easy to prosecute. As far as I can work out, he didn't actually break any rules on the day. |
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"It's a swinging site!!! Why the fuck would you want to post a topic about such a thing????
Unbelievable!!! "
. Though it is a sex site , the normal rules of conversation apply and you are entitled to discuss any topic you like .There is a limit to the number of discussions you can have about sex and it becomes boring after the while . Many of the most successfull members if this site contribute to topics which have nothing to do with sex . |
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" That being said, I agree it is unlikely to succeed as there is no evidence that the driver intended to kill on that day. As I've said before, despite the medical history of the driver, sadly it was a tragic accident.
Whether he intended to kill or not won't matter though. You could argue someone who's had a few drinks doesn't intend to kill but if they do then they are liable. Also, I could be wrong, but hasn't there been cases of lorry drivers being prosecuted after it was shown they had caused an accident after not having enough rest and therefore driving whilst tired? They obviously don't intend to kill either."
. However the number of hours which lorry and bus drivers can drive are defined in the drivers hours regulations and as such it is easy to prosecute because you have either adhered to them or you have not .
In this case _the issue is whether the driver informed the DVLA of his blackouts . Had he informed them he would have had his licence suspended pending further investigations . ? Do we know the exact date of his last blackout before the accident ?.. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
Turns out he's been up to no good - again.
"BIN lorry crash driver Harry Clarke has been arrested over claims he drove his car last month despite being banned from the road, it was reported.
Clarke, 58, is accused of getting behind the wheel of a car after losing both his car and HGV licences.
A fatal accident inquiry into the Glasgow tragedy in June heard claims he collapsed and lost control of his bin lorry after lying about previous blackouts at the wheel.
The inquiry was also told Clarke’s driving licences had been withdrawn by the DVLA after the tragedy because of information they had since received about his medical history.
It is said that Clarke was arrested after he was spotted behind the wheel two weeks ago – despite DVLA officials withdrawing his car licence for 12 months and banning him from driving HGVs for 10 years.
Clarke, from Baillieston, Glasgow, allegedly got behind the wheel of a car on Sunday, September 20."
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/glasgow-bin-lorry-crash-driver-6569490 |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
If this is the case then it looks like what people said about him lying about his licence so he could provide for his family is not really the case....he is just a selfish man who doesn't give a shit whether he is a danger to anyone or not |
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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago
south east |
"
If this is the case then it looks like what people said about him lying about his licence so he could provide for his family is not really the case....he is just a selfish man who doesn't give a shit whether he is a danger to anyone or not"
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Driving without a license is not the same as driving while disqualified. Only a court can disqualify and that has not happened in this case.
At most the penalty will be 3 penalty points and a fine.
There will be no imprisonment for this offence.
He has not been banned from driving. That is a serious offence which could, technically, carry a custodial sentence. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Driving without a license is not the same as driving while disqualified. Only a court can disqualify and that has not happened in this case.
At most the penalty will be 3 penalty points and a fine.
There will be no imprisonment for this offence.
He has not been banned from driving. That is a serious offence which could, technically, carry a custodial sentence. "
Will driving without a licence automatically invalidate insurance (in the unlikely event he's bothered by such trivia)? |
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"Driving without a license is not the same as driving while disqualified. Only a court can disqualify and that has not happened in this case.
At most the penalty will be 3 penalty points and a fine.
There will be no imprisonment for this offence.
He has not been banned from driving. That is a serious offence which could, technically, carry a custodial sentence.
Will driving without a licence automatically invalidate insurance (in the unlikely event he's bothered by such trivia)?"
Yeah. There may be a charge of driving without insurance if he did actually drive. He could be banned for that but again only a financial penalty could be imposed |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If this is accurate it beggars belief how someone can be so selfish. Total disregard for the families that have lost loved ones.
If it were me who had caused the accident, I would be devasted over what had happened and would never want to drive again. |
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