FabSwingers.com > Forums > Scotland > 5 more years of Tory rule
5 more years of Tory rule
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"That no vote doesn't seem so clever now does it"
Can't be blamed on the SNP either...even if scotland had voted labour they would still have got their arse kicked. Yet again we have a government imposed on us that we didn't vote for. |
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"That no vote doesn't seem so clever now does it
Can't be blamed on the SNP either...even if scotland had voted labour they would still have got their arse kicked. Yet again we have a government imposed on us that we didn't vote for."
we did vote for you mean we are part of the uk and that was the vote that was returned and yup the no vote still sits well even though I dont like conservative the people of the uk decided |
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We are part of that disunited uk as you like to call it you want to lay blame perhaps place it at your preffered partys feet for a lack lustre campaign the snp did really well but could only look to 59 seats due to their manifesto conservative is in because labour is so dire plain and simple |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Eh, the SNP can only look for a maximum of fifty nines seats due to the fact that they only stand in Scottish constituencies. Getting fifty six is hardly lack lustre lol. The Tories down south convinced a lot of people that an SNP and a Labour coalition was an affront to democracy and it worked. The fact that Ed Millifuckwit had to deny any coalition or deals with a, at the time potential, democratically elected majority of SNP MPS in Scotland showed that the Tory message worked. That denial by him just showed, actually it shouted from the roof tops, that the Westminster government doesn't really give a flying fuck what the Scottish electorate thought. They'll be worried now though. I think we're seeing the beginning of the end of the UK as we know it....we'll either see full independence or federalism within a generation. |
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Snp performed well the lack lustre comment was mostly labour I was refering to 59 seats is very little in the scheme of the uk yes I fully expect the referendum war cry to roll out later this yr and to happen within five probably even to win that ...........dosnt change that right now we are part of the uk and we the people of the uk voted the conservative party in careful what you wish for percentage wise (as some would like it) we carry very little. for yourself and other snp voters its a great day you can bet your btm doller they will have to be listened to now |
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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago
London - till 25th |
I expect the new uk government to give the SNP their manifesto request for full fiscal responsibility.
Then they'll sit back and watch as austerity really bites north of the border.
What gets cut?
Free personal care for the elderly?
Bus passes?
Free Tuition?
NHS?
Council tax freeze?
Interesting times ahead. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Get over yourself scotland it's not all about the snp, it's the beautiful, albeit slightly stupid, people South of the border that have lumbered us with the smarmy bastard for another five years, if only it had been ed milliband and not the Glenn Miller band that went missing labour might have stood a chance. |
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By *wiftieeMan
over a year ago
near Glasgow |
"I expect the new uk government to give the SNP their manifesto request for full fiscal responsibility.
Then they'll sit back and watch as austerity really bites north of the border.
What gets cut?
Free personal care for the elderly?
Bus passes?
Free Tuition?
NHS?
Council tax freeze?
Interesting times ahead. "
Couldn't agree more with this, let's have full fiscal responsibility and then see what the SNP makes of it.
They'll almost certainly make a mess of it and then we'll see just how loyal all those rose-tinted specs wearers are at the next referendum and election!
Interesting times ahead indeed.
Of course, there is another future scenario; Cumbria and Northumbria follow in the footsteps of Corby and become 'little Scotlands' as right-thinking young Scots pack their bags and move just over the border.
And if you think the above is nonsense, more fool you. Have a look at Ireland since the economic downturn and their EU referendums; there's been a constant stream of young folk heading east across the Irish Sea.
Fasten your seat belts, it could be a bumpy ride!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I expect the new uk government to give the SNP their manifesto request for full fiscal responsibility.
Then they'll sit back and watch as austerity really bites north of the border.
What gets cut?
Free personal care for the elderly?
Bus passes?
Free Tuition?
NHS?
Council tax freeze?
Interesting times ahead. "
Get rid of free tuition, free prescriptions, increase council tax to a sensible amount but leave my free bus pass alone!!!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The United Kingdom just doesn't work. SNP dominate in Scotland, yet ruled by Torie Majority. English voters voting Torie just to keep SNP out of a coalition. It's all tactical voting. UKIP getting 4 mil votes, yet only 1 seat. It just doesn't work. |
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By *all saulMan
over a year ago
Dunbartonshire |
Yeah I know but I genuinely think the fact they had to concede some ground to lib dems last time took the edge of it a little this time if they go it alone no one is there to show down the slashing of public services in the name of austerity |
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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago
London - till 25th |
"The United Kingdom just doesn't work. SNP dominate in Scotland, yet ruled by Torie Majority. English voters voting Torie just to keep SNP out of a coalition. It's all tactical voting. UKIP getting 4 mil votes, yet only 1 seat. It just doesn't work. "
Yet there was a vote for a system of proportional representation that was voted down.
Whine, whine, it isn'y fair...
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By *andACouple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"Yeah I know but I genuinely think the fact they had to concede some ground to lib dems last time took the edge of it a little this time if they go it alone no one is there to show down the slashing of public services in the name of austerity "
I would've preferred the Lib Dems in with them again. |
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By *all saulMan
over a year ago
Dunbartonshire |
Agreed heard Henry McLeish on the radio in the wee stupid hours saying something similar labour in England needed to go to the right labour Scotland needs to go more to the left he was of the opinion to survive the party must fully split and have separate manifestos and have fully autonomy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The United Kingdom just doesn't work. SNP dominate in Scotland, yet ruled by Torie Majority. English voters voting Torie just to keep SNP out of a coalition. It's all tactical voting. UKIP getting 4 mil votes, yet only 1 seat. It just doesn't work.
Yet there was a vote for a system of proportional representation that was voted down.
Whine, whine, it isn'y fair...
"
With not even 5% of the overall vote theres no way snp supporters will want pr instead of fptp now ... How many of their 56 seats would that have got them? Not very many! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Whatever problems Scotland face within the next 5 years, is because the SNP chosen not to cushion them. Simple as that. Be warned, Britain as well as the rest of Europe face many many problems in the coming years... financial markets in relation to China, oil/gas rebounding, shake up of OPEC leadership, future Russian sanctions on former Soviet states, Greek debt/Spanish Debt and on and on... much of what I said has yet to flourish (sadly). |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"The SNP's 56 seats came from 1,454,436 (less than in the Referendum).
Progress? I don't think so."
Yeah its progress it means people that voted no last year seen through this badmouthing of the SNP and Labour 2nd referendum and voted for a party thats gonna have a voice down in westminster. |
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By *illi37Woman
over a year ago
glasgow |
Oh im no angel...so i have to say it .."Told you so "......my so called superiors where i work .were all convinced it was a Labour -SNP govt...I just was not convinced, the Conservatives didnt try a leg in Scotland...leaving the way open for all the bile to go in Labours direction...i was wrong on UKIP though with a very credible showing...but the Tories just win elections...  |
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By *andACouple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"The SNP's 56 seats came from 1,454,436 (less than in the Referendum).
Progress? I don't think so.
Yeah its progress it means people that voted no last year seen through this badmouthing of the SNP and Labour 2nd referendum and voted for a party thats gonna have a voice down in westminster. "
I may be reading this wrong but isn't he saying less people voted for the SNP than voted 'Yes' in the referendum?
If that's the case (and I don't know if it is) how are you reaching the conclusion that the result shows people who voted 'no' voted for the SNP this time? |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"The SNP's 56 seats came from 1,454,436 (less than in the Referendum).
Progress? I don't think so.
Yeah its progress it means people that voted no last year seen through this badmouthing of the SNP and Labour 2nd referendum and voted for a party thats gonna have a voice down in westminster. "
Fewer votes is progress? |
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By *all saulMan
over a year ago
Dunbartonshire |
"Where does "Scottish" Labour go from here? "
Good question this is the problem Scottish labour need to go to the left to regain ground yet English labour would spread appear to need to go note to the right to reclaim lost ground this is where the issue comes regardless of anyone's _iews on the SNP they can claim to bed solely focused on Scottish issues not a claim Scottish labour could make at this election where Jim Murphy was shot down by his his own party south of the border.
Milliband stepping down for me is a step forward at least.
Personally I would like to get back to true socialist roots but that doesn't sit well in the south unfortunately. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Where does "Scottish" Labour go from here? Back to basics"
I guess that's all they can do, will they manage to turn it round in time for the Scottish parliamentary elections in a year or so?
Will need to be a very quick recovery. |
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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago
south east |
You can debate the ins and outs of a rats ass all day but no1 can deny scotland spoke last night ..1 party finishing the night with nearly 51% of the vote in scotland ( of those that voted) ...something thats never been seen in british political history ..you can bet your mortgage DC is listening he cant afford not to  as for lib dems they were toast the moment they got into bed with the tories ...here and in england and scottish labour ?? Come on no1 really believes there is such a thing ..they are told what to say and do by uk labour ...lost count of how many times they fucked over their scottish mps ..as for referendum no voters i know quite a few ...and everyone of them voted snp yesterday....if 16 and 17 yr old were allowed to vote yesterday it would have been a clean sweep of all 59 seats i reckon ...next few weeks will be an interesting watch |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It was fewer votes as fewer people were eligible to vote....think that's simple arithmetic. Turnout % was perhaps less than that at the referendum?? Any party who increases their seats by 400% over their previous best ever figures is pretty good going
"The SNP's 56 seats came from 1,454,436 (less than in the Referendum).
Progress? I don't think so.
Yeah its progress it means people that voted no last year seen through this badmouthing of the SNP and Labour 2nd referendum and voted for a party thats gonna have a voice down in westminster.
Fewer votes is progress?"
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I just get frustrated at people blaming the SNP because Labour failed in england. 56 Seats for Labour from scotland would have made no difference, the tories would have still gotten in. Labour are red Tory's anyway |
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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago
glasgow |
"Just goes to prove that while we're attached to a Westminster parliament we will never get the party we vote for... one Tory seat and still they rule"
That can't be true. Whenever there has been a Labour government it has also been the majority in Scotland. |
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but we did get who we voted for we are part of the uk and the uk returned its votes in favour of conservative accept that we are part of the uk maybe in the future only the people of scotland wil decide who governs only scotland but until then it will remain a uk decision |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The SNP's 56 seats came from 1,454,436 (less than in the Referendum).
Progress? I don't think so."
the referendum vote was supported by a coalition of party's on both sides your not comparing like with like |
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By *illi37Woman
over a year ago
glasgow |
It is the way democracy works .well in a first past the post system.....i do hope we dont get people complaining that the result last night was.....because of vote rigging.....Mi5 involvement....the establishment never "letting us win " etc........ |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wont hear me complain ....i sat up last night and watched history being made "
me too stayed up till 4 then up at 7 for work well worth it though ,having a wee celebration drink now lol |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"Wont hear me complain ....i sat up last night and watched history being made
me too stayed up till 4 then up at 7 for work well worth it though ,having a wee celebration drink now lol"
Me either im shattered the night but well worth staying up and now treating ourselves to a takeaway Icing on the cake would be to see Jim Murphy resign |
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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago
south east |
"Wont hear me complain ....i sat up last night and watched history being made
me too stayed up till 4 then up at 7 for work well worth it though ,having a wee celebration drink now lol"
stayed up til 5 |
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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago
south east |
I was only gonna stay up until my local labour twat was ousted they estimated the result to come in about half 1 but was nearer to half 2 but watching the incredible results coming in while waiting hooked me lol |
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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago
south east |
"whats wrong with jim murphy? his speech was so lovely"
really cant stand that man ...ive got to ask ..how can he possibly stay as leader of scottish labour when he doesnt hold ANY politically elected post |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"whats he done wrong?"
He has lied to the people mind when he said vote SNP which people had to right to instead of being forced to vote for them we would get the Tories turns out even if the whole of Scotland voted for Labour we would still get the Tories. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Also along with the empty promises of more powers for Scotland, Scottish labour is dead. With the snp we have a voice in Westminster that will actually fight for Scotland |
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By *alcon43Woman
over a year ago
Paisley |
But will they still support SNP when they start making their own decisions regarding tax! We could end up paying more tax than those South of the border.
Will SNP keep the books balanced or will we end up in debt with no one to bail us out. |
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At the moment I still don't think that the SNP have what it takes to form a full on government in full control on Scotland independent future.
But, due the overwhelming majority vote to the SNP they have a golden opportunity to show the No voters like me that they can rule alone and rule an independent Scotland.
(Mr) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"whats wrong with jim murphy? his speech was so lovely"
I thought so too...the man made the speech not the politician and it was very genuine i felt. I thought he did himself and his party proud although I'm not a supporter.  |
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Cameron will push the offer of FFA which will put the wind up Sturgeon (no more Westminster to blame). The loss of the Barnet £7.6bn cash will will lead to MacSterity Max north of the border - Service cuts or higher taxes being her only option to balance the books.
Strap yourselves in cause its going to be a costly and rocky road for at least the next 10 years. |
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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago
glasgow |
"Cameron will push the offer of FFA which will put the wind up Sturgeon (no more Westminster to blame). The loss of the Barnet £7.6bn cash will will lead to MacSterity Max north of the border - Service cuts or higher taxes being her only option to balance the books.
Strap yourselves in cause its going to be a costly and rocky road for at least the next 10 years. "
If Cameron offers it then the SNP are gonna be in a very awkward position. Although we'd initially be worse off by over £7bn it would actually rise to ver £10bn over the next few years.
There's a great article here that explains most of the figures in easy form.
http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/full-fiscal-autonomy-for-dummies.html?m=1 |
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"Cameron will push the offer of FFA which will put the wind up Sturgeon (no more Westminster to blame). The loss of the Barnet £7.6bn cash will will lead to MacSterity Max north of the border - Service cuts or higher taxes being her only option to balance the books.
Strap yourselves in cause its going to be a costly and rocky road for at least the next 10 years.
If Cameron offers it then the SNP are gonna be in a very awkward position. Although we'd initially be worse off by over £7bn it would actually rise to ver £10bn over the next few years.
There's a great article here that explains most of the figures in easy form.
http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/full-fiscal-autonomy-for-dummies.html?m=1"
as with all things its dependant on lots of factors what price westminster wants for services if it was ffa with no service charge from the uk we would actually be alot better off |
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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago
glasgow |
"as with all things its dependant on lots of factors what price westminster wants for services if it was ffa with no service charge from the uk we would actually be alot better off"
You got a link to somewhere that's done an anlysis and come to that conclusion, as it's not one I've heard or seen anywhere? Even the SNP don't make that claim. |
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Labour are feverishly promoting the £7.6bn black hole scare-story to put people off FFA but it’s a myth; firstly because it assumes oil prices won’t ever recover, and even a moderate increase to $70/80 would wipe out any additional deficit. Secondly FFA will give the Scottish Government powers to balance income and expenditure. The UK has failed to do this and so the UK is running a deficit of £75billion and a debt of £1.5trillion. As black holes go, Westminster has what’s known as a “super massive”.
estminster never wanted to give Scotland any more powers – they fought tooth and nail to keep devo max off the ballot paper because they knew it would either win or split the No vote, allowing Yes to win out right. They only promised more powers when their own polling suggested they were in danger of losing, and they have been backtracking ever since.
They know that more powers, specifically the vow of substantial new devolution is very popular and they know they can’t attack it or be seen to obviously backtrack. So they have chosen the deceitful tactic of targeting one of the foundation stones of more powers full fiscal autonomy, because they see it as vulnerable to political spin, since people don’t really understand what it means. They are clearly about to throw the mother of all scaremongering campaigns against full fiscal autonomy, but we have been here before.
We will hear fears of a big deficit with full fiscal autonomy, that differing tax rates will mean confusion and a race to the bottom. We will hear from Westminster’s friends in big business who will talk about uncertainty affecting investment; they will claim it will cause a huge black-hole and threaten pensions, to place older people in fear of losing their paltry incomes. And why not? It worked during the Independence referendum and they calculate that it will work again. You might think its a suicidal tactic, after all, talking Scotland down and referendum scaremongering sunk them in the polls. But a Labour insider boasted to me that the more powers argument is keeping the SNP vote high, and if they destroy the case for more powers then they destroy the surge.
Project fear is alive and well, Westminster’s new ‘No to more powers’ campaign has Jim Murphy as its new cheerleader and will come in three stages.
Dont know how to do links but cpl of cut and pastes you can easily research these things
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Labour are feverishly promoting the £7.6bn black hole scare-story to put people off FFA but it’s a myth; firstly because it assumes oil prices won’t ever recover, and even a moderate increase to $70/80 would wipe out any additional deficit. Secondly FFA will give the Scottish Government powers to balance income and expenditure. The UK has failed to do this and so the UK is running a deficit of £75billion and a debt of £1.5trillion. As black holes go, Westminster has what’s known as a “super massive”.
estminster never wanted to give Scotland any more powers – they fought tooth and nail to keep devo max off the ballot paper because they knew it would either win or split the No vote, allowing Yes to win out right. They only promised more powers when their own polling suggested they were in danger of losing, and they have been backtracking ever since.
They know that more powers, specifically the vow of substantial new devolution is very popular and they know they can’t attack it or be seen to obviously backtrack. So they have chosen the deceitful tactic of targeting one of the foundation stones of more powers full fiscal autonomy, because they see it as vulnerable to political spin, since people don’t really understand what it means. They are clearly about to throw the mother of all scaremongering campaigns against full fiscal autonomy, but we have been here before.
We will hear fears of a big deficit with full fiscal autonomy, that differing tax rates will mean confusion and a race to the bottom. We will hear from Westminster’s friends in big business who will talk about uncertainty affecting investment; they will claim it will cause a huge black-hole and threaten pensions, to place older people in fear of losing their paltry incomes. And why not? It worked during the Independence referendum and they calculate that it will work again. You might think its a suicidal tactic, after all, talking Scotland down and referendum scaremongering sunk them in the polls. But a Labour insider boasted to me that the more powers argument is keeping the SNP vote high, and if they destroy the case for more powers then they destroy the surge.
Project fear is alive and well, Westminster’s new ‘No to more powers’ campaign has Jim Murphy as its new cheerleader and will come in three stages.
Dont know how to do links but cpl of cut and pastes you can easily research these things
"
Simply lifting chunks of Gordon McIntyre-Kemp's ramblings in Business for Scotland don't make it true.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Oh i bet labour wished they had never high fived and cracked the champers with the tories at the referendum lol coz they have paid a heavy price and will never be a force in scotland again, happy and proud wee chappy today |
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"Where does "Scottish" Labour go from here? "
Murphy needs to face reality and step down, that's the first step, the second step is they need to separate Scottish Labour from Labour down South, in other words they need to be an independent Labour Party not be controlled from Westminster. |
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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago
glasgow |
"Labour are feverishly promoting the £7.6bn black hole scare-story to put people off FFA but it’s a myth; firstly because it assumes oil prices won’t ever recover, and even a moderate increase to $70/80 would wipe out any additional deficit. Secondly FFA will give the Scottish Government powers to balance income and expenditure. The UK has failed to do this and so the UK is running a deficit of £75billion and a debt of £1.5trillion. As black holes go, Westminster has what’s known as a “super massive”.
estminster never wanted to give Scotland any more powers – they fought tooth and nail to keep devo max off the ballot paper because they knew it would either win or split the No vote, allowing Yes to win out right. They only promised more powers when their own polling suggested they were in danger of losing, and they have been backtracking ever since.
They know that more powers, specifically the vow of substantial new devolution is very popular and they know they can’t attack it or be seen to obviously backtrack. So they have chosen the deceitful tactic of targeting one of the foundation stones of more powers full fiscal autonomy, because they see it as vulnerable to political spin, since people don’t really understand what it means. They are clearly about to throw the mother of all scaremongering campaigns against full fiscal autonomy, but we have been here before.
We will hear fears of a big deficit with full fiscal autonomy, that differing tax rates will mean confusion and a race to the bottom. We will hear from Westminster’s friends in big business who will talk about uncertainty affecting investment; they will claim it will cause a huge black-hole and threaten pensions, to place older people in fear of losing their paltry incomes. And why not? It worked during the Independence referendum and they calculate that it will work again. You might think its a suicidal tactic, after all, talking Scotland down and referendum scaremongering sunk them in the polls. But a Labour insider boasted to me that the more powers argument is keeping the SNP vote high, and if they destroy the case for more powers then they destroy the surge.
Project fear is alive and well, Westminster’s new ‘No to more powers’ campaign has Jim Murphy as its new cheerleader and will come in three stages.
Dont know how to do links but cpl of cut and pastes you can easily research these things
"
There's only one point in that article that shows any figures and it is completely wrong. I note they don't actually show how they came to their conclusion but I'll show why it's wrong.
The deficit figure is £9.1bn if we don't include income from oil. If we go back a couple of years to 2012/13 when oil was always above $80 and sometimes over $100 then the income from oil that year was under £5bn so it still leaves a massive deficit. We also have to take into account that production has been decreasing since 1999 (and more sharply from 2010 onwards) and the cost of extracting it has increased steeply.
I'll email business for Scotland to see how they came to their conclusions as they don't seem to have any basis in reality. Will let you know the outcome. |
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Over the last few years i have been thinking that our first past the post elections were inherently unfair and this election has just proven that.
Snp get 1.4 million votes and 56 seats. Ukip get 12.6 million votes and just one mp. 50% of voters in scotland voted snp but they got 95% of the seats.
These days the electorate will vote for anything with a yellow rosette shown by a 20 yo foul mouthed student winning Paisley. |
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By *lue4youCouple
over a year ago
Lanarkshire |
Be careful what you wish for... I do agree with PR, but the scary factor of ending up with whole bunch of UKIP really makes me lean to getting separate from the rest. At least up here they got no chance. Anyways Labour failed not just in this campaign, but in years of treating Scotland like a branch party. So much so that even a 20 yr old foul mouthed student gets in? I think that says more about Labours pathetic attitude than about the electorate... as said post referendum by the unionists. the people have spoken ... get over it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Be careful what you wish for... I do agree with PR, but the scary factor of ending up with whole bunch of UKIP really makes me lean to getting separate from the rest. At least up here they got no chance. Anyways Labour failed not just in this campaign, but in years of treating Scotland like a branch party. So much so that even a 20 yr old foul mouthed student gets in? I think that says more about Labours pathetic attitude than about the electorate... as said post referendum by the unionists. the people have spoken ... get over it "
I believe the war cry was, "you wanted a vote, you got a vote. The people of Scotland have given your their decision, now shut up & accept it".
Or does that not apply when it doesn't go your way?
Funny that!
Dx |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Let's not forget that the House of Commons had a vote on changing first past the post and the vote didn't go through as the main parties didn't want it changed.
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"Cameron will push the offer of FFA which will put the wind up Sturgeon (no more Westminster to blame). The loss of the Barnet £7.6bn cash will will lead to MacSterity Max north of the border - Service cuts or higher taxes being her only option to balance the books.
Strap yourselves in cause its going to be a costly and rocky road for at least the next 10 years. "
Good , well considered comments. Totally agree...... Also love the 'macsteritty ' reference . Brilliant ! Lol |
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By *wiftieeMan
over a year ago
near Glasgow |
"Cameron will push the offer of FFA which will put the wind up Sturgeon (no more Westminster to blame). The loss of the Barnet £7.6bn cash will will lead to MacSterity Max north of the border - Service cuts or higher taxes being her only option to balance the books.
Strap yourselves in cause its going to be a costly and rocky road for at least the next 10 years. "
If Cameron has any sense, he'll do this ASAP, and then we'll see just how flawed the SNP strategy really is.
Then it'll be roll on the next election, and just watch the reaction and change of mind of all the 'voting with their hearts' folk. Alex Salmond was getting caught out right left and centre with his lying, blustering, and half-truths, so it'll be interesting to see how NS gets on when all the buck stops with her. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Cameron will push the offer of FFA which will put the wind up Sturgeon (no more Westminster to blame). The loss of the Barnet £7.6bn cash will will lead to MacSterity Max north of the border - Service cuts or higher taxes being her only option to balance the books.
Strap yourselves in cause its going to be a costly and rocky road for at least the next 10 years.
If Cameron has any sense, he'll do this ASAP, and then we'll see just how flawed the SNP strategy really is.
Then it'll be roll on the next election, and just watch the reaction and change of mind of all the 'voting with their hearts' folk. Alex Salmond was getting caught out right left and centre with his lying, blustering, and half-truths, so it'll be interesting to see how NS gets on when all the buck stops with her."
Tough times ahead for the whole of the UK....Labour (and I'm a member) just didn't come up with a good enough strategy to refute the SNP and the Tories down South. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Those of us old enough to remember Margaret thatcher will remember how during her reign the scots abandoned the Tory party. Now they have in similar fashion abandoned the Labour Party . Thank god we don't hold a grudge though I mean labour can take heart from the surge in Tory votes and MPs over the 30 yrs or so after we abandoned them OH WAIT A MiNUTE no they can't |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Those of us old enough to remember Margaret thatcher will remember how during her reign the scots abandoned the Tory party. Now they have in similar fashion abandoned the Labour Party . Thank god we don't hold a grudge though I mean labour can take heart from the surge in Tory votes and MPs over the 30 yrs or so after we abandoned them OH WAIT A MiNUTE no they can't "
just asking...who should I have voted for..givemn the fact I trust none of them...its pretty evident everyones fucked us..there IS no perfect system.
I'm told I should have voted for someone...I question do I really have to?...I know we live in a capitalist society, so no extreme is going to have a big hold on what happens.. left..the right..the center...they all just appear the same to me..
I can moan ten years ago about this and that, if I voted i could moan about this upcoming few years..is that not fucking pointless |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
After having a wee read at the Smith Commission i found this...
18. It is agreed that nothing in this report prevents Scotland becoming an independent country in the future should the people of Scotland so choose.
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"After having a wee read at the Smith Commission i found this...
18. It is agreed that nothing in this report prevents Scotland becoming an independent country in the future should the people of Scotland so choose.
"
How will that choice be made, short of another Referendum? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Seems a lot of unionists are hurting just like we nationalists were after the referendum ,well deal with it just like we had to do "
But not in the same childish vitriolic manner presumably!  |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"After having a wee read at the Smith Commission i found this...
18. It is agreed that nothing in this report prevents Scotland becoming an independent country in the future should the people of Scotland so choose.
How will that choice be made, short of another Referendum?"
Well there will be an in/out referendum on EU membership for the UK. Assuming the polls are right (now a bigger caveat than it used to be) and also factoring in the percentage share of vote (if not seats) won by Ukip then it looks likely that Scotland will vote Yes and also highly probable that the rest of the UK will vote No to EU membership. This will result in Scotland being forced out of the EU against its wishes and that would create a UK that is fundamentally different to the one to which the No vote committed us. |
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Snp got 50% of the votes cast and 95% of the seats. The other 50% have 3 mps. Ukip got 12.6% of the uk votes and one seat.
Seems that sturgeon is saying it is not a vote for independence and salmond saying it is. Who is in charge of the snp these days?
The snp are a one policy party. Anything that involves basic arithmetic i.e. balancing the books is just alien to them. The last i heard was that they wanted ffa but to keep the barnett formula. You couldn't make it up. |
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"Snp got 50% of the votes cast and 95% of the seats. The other 50% have 3 mps. Ukip got 12.6% of the uk votes and one seat.
Seems that sturgeon is saying it is not a vote for independence and salmond saying it is. Who is in charge of the snp these days?
The snp are a one policy party. Anything that involves basic arithmetic i.e. balancing the books is just alien to them. The last i heard was that they wanted ffa but to keep the barnett formula. You couldn't make it up."
Its not the SNP's fault that the Westminster election is first past the post. Never heard labour complain about it in the past when they were taking the majority of the seats in Scotland, but I guess because they lost all but one of their seats they will be claiming its an unfair system now.
Nicoloa Sturgeon is in charge of the SNP as im sure you already know.
Your comment that the SNP are a one policy party is absolute drivel. If that was the case why would so many people that voted no in the referendum vote SNP for this election? The SNP have many of the beliefs that Labour used to stand for but have forgotten/ignored. The SNP are the only real working man/womans choice in Scotland now.
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"Snp got 50% of the votes cast and 95% of the seats. The other 50% have 3 mps. Ukip got 12.6% of the uk votes and one seat.
Seems that sturgeon is saying it is not a vote for independence and salmond saying it is. Who is in charge of the snp these days?
The snp are a one policy party. Anything that involves basic arithmetic i.e. balancing the books is just alien to them. The last i heard was that they wanted ffa but to keep the barnett formula. You couldn't make it up.
Its not the SNP's fault that the Westminster election is first past the post. Never heard labour complain about it in the past when they were taking the majority of the seats in Scotland, but I guess because they lost all but one of their seats they will be claiming its an unfair system now.
Nicoloa Sturgeon is in charge of the SNP as im sure you already know.
Your comment that the SNP are a one policy party is absolute drivel. If that was the case why would so many people that voted no in the referendum vote SNP for this election? The SNP have many of the beliefs that Labour used to stand for but have forgotten/ignored. The SNP are the only real working man/womans choice in Scotland now.
"
this I definatly agree with they certainly aint sqeezing the middle ground |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
" Nicoloa Sturgeon is in charge of the SNP as im sure you already know. "
I'm not sure Eck would agree with that.
" Your comment that the SNP are a one policy party is absolute drivel. If that was the case why would so many people that voted no in the referendum vote SNP for this election? "
Without knowing how everyone voted, you're just making that up. What we DO know is that c 1.6 million voted Yes and c 1.6 million voted SNP.
The same people? Dunno, but it's a safe bet. |
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" Nicoloa Sturgeon is in charge of the SNP as im sure you already know.
I'm not sure Eck would agree with that.
Your comment that the SNP are a one policy party is absolute drivel. If that was the case why would so many people that voted no in the referendum vote SNP for this election?
Without knowing how everyone voted, you're just making that up. What we DO know is that c 1.6 million voted Yes and c 1.6 million voted SNP.
The same people? Dunno, but it's a safe bet."
safe bet wouldnt think so no 16 to 18 yr olds voting this time so a chunk of those must be removed is it so far fetched that some like snps policys but thought the climate was wrong to go it alone |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Europe may also want the uk but not scotland on its own in the event of a split these are all things that im sure the snp will be bringing up"
I am pretty sure that Europe are not going to turn down the country with the largest renewable energy output and the second biggest oil and gas fields in European Union
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"Europe may also want the uk but not scotland on its own in the event of a split these are all things that im sure the snp will be bringing upI am pretty sure that Europe are not going to turn down the country with the largest renewable energy output and the second biggest oil and gas fields in European Union "
why are you so sure we would have to apply and then have all of the eu partys accept that lol lots of established countrys cant even join as being blocked by other countrys who wont accept that they are a free state ehy would scotland be any diffrent
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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago
south east |
On the topic of europe ....i do believe a referendum SHOULD take place , the people should always have their rightful say ..however i do not believe for 1 minute the uk will vote to leave ...as for whether europe would accept an independent scotland ..i was watching dateline london at the weekend on bbc news on which they had a french political commentator saying europe would of course welcome scotland with open arms and any talk of the opposite was disgraceful fear mongering brought on by the no campaign during the independence referendum....personally speaking i tend to believe that rather than the bile spread by tories/labour and libs who based their entire election campaign on fear of what each other would do as they did with the referendum |
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A referendum should always take place on such large scale moves and yes some members would welcome all comers (as long as it suits them) but try telling that to long term established countries who are still in theacension stage who some eu members wont even recognise them as a independant country the point I was making is its not a given take icelands proposed inclusion as an example |
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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago
south east |
The slight difference being scotland although part of the united kingdom is already a member think the point made was that europe would not exile scotland if it were to end up independent due to it being a member and its huge resources |
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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago
south east |
" Nicoloa Sturgeon is in charge of the SNP as im sure you already know.
I'm not sure Eck would agree with that.
"
ohh i'm prity sure Eck is 100% behind Nicola Sturgeon as is every elected member of the SNP....for once there is a party with unity something all the other main political parties could only dream of ...just wait and watch the tories ripped apart over the coming months from their own back benches and the in fighting and smearing that will come from within labour as they look for direction and party leadership |
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" Nicoloa Sturgeon is in charge of the SNP as im sure you already know.
I'm not sure Eck would agree with that.
ohh i'm prity sure Eck is 100% behind Nicola Sturgeon as is every elected member of the SNP....for once there is a party with unity something all the other main political parties could only dream of ...just wait and watch the tories ripped apart over the coming months from their own back benches and the in fighting and smearing that will come from within labour as they look for direction and party leadership "
not an snp voter but would agree they are the only party the sing from the same sheet it amuses me the die hard labour supporters who try to be little snp giving that their policys are very reminisant of those that founded the labour party my how times change |
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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago
south east |
It seems to me some people are only interested in and praying nicola sturgeon fails and falls flat on her face at the expense of the scottish people instead of saying ok not what i wanted but for the sake of scotlands people i hope they got it right...very sad in my opinion .... am i happy there is again a tory gov ...no i am not in the slightest but im hopeful something good CAN come from it IF Cameron and Sturgeon have the desire and the balls to work with instead of against each other and find solutions for the benefit of all ...if the tories treat scotland with the same contempt as they have always done the divide WILL grow beyond repair and the union will disintegrate it is going to be a very interesting couple of years .
The british people want change ..old school politics is dying ..who in their right mind would have predicted snp taking all but 3 seats in scotland and ukip coming away with over 4 million votes .....take heed westminster |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I was just wondering when the snp are bringing in the mansion tax for Scotland or was it only when it was when London was going to take the biggest burden. Just curious when it will happen as it was one of the many manifesto pledges lifted from Labour. |
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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago
south east |
"I was just wondering when the snp are bringing in the mansion tax for Scotland or was it only when it was when London was going to take the biggest burden. Just curious when it will happen as it was one of the many manifesto pledges lifted from Labour."
quite possibly when or IF scotland gets the powers devolved it needs to bring in such a tax |
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"The slight difference being scotland although part of the united kingdom is already a member think the point made was that europe would not exile scotland if it were to end up independent due to it being a member and its huge resources "
I watched an episode of Question time during the scottish referendum, and they had an EU representative from Spain on the programme. He said Spain would block any attempt by an independent Scotland to join the EU. Spain would be very worried it would give the green light for Catalonia to have a referendum and become independent from Spain then Catalonia join the EU, if they saw the Sots do it. So Spain would use all its influence and power in the EU to block an independent Scotland from joining the EU. |
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"The slight difference being scotland although part of the united kingdom is already a member think the point made was that europe would not exile scotland if it were to end up independent due to it being a member and its huge resources
I watched an episode of Question time during the scottish referendum, and they had an EU representative from Spain on the programme. He said Spain would block any attempt by an independent Scotland to join the EU. Spain would be very worried it would give the green light for Catalonia to have a referendum and become independent from Spain then Catalonia join the EU, if they saw the Sots do it. So Spain would use all its influence and power in the EU to block an independent Scotland from joining the EU. "
Sorry was an episode of Newsnight, not Question time. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We'll here in Falkirk we had one d*unk and one that even wee red Ed called the police in to sort out as the unions wanted a local lad but they parachuted someone in that head office wanted. And they wonder why SNP got in. As for wee Jim from Glasgow 18 years a MP but I still can't work out what he did in that time. KISS BLARES ASS  |
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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago
glasgow |
"Labour are feverishly promoting the £7.6bn black hole scare-story to put people off FFA but it’s a myth; firstly because it assumes oil prices won’t ever recover, and even a moderate increase to $70/80 would wipe out any additional deficit. Secondly FFA will give the Scottish Government powers to balance income and expenditure. The UK has failed to do this and so the UK is running a deficit of £75billion and a debt of £1.5trillion. As black holes go, Westminster has what’s known as a “super massive”.
estminster never wanted to give Scotland any more powers – they fought tooth and nail to keep devo max off the ballot paper because they knew it would either win or split the No vote, allowing Yes to win out right. They only promised more powers when their own polling suggested they were in danger of losing, and they have been backtracking ever since.
They know that more powers, specifically the vow of substantial new devolution is very popular and they know they can’t attack it or be seen to obviously backtrack. So they have chosen the deceitful tactic of targeting one of the foundation stones of more powers full fiscal autonomy, because they see it as vulnerable to political spin, since people don’t really understand what it means. They are clearly about to throw the mother of all scaremongering campaigns against full fiscal autonomy, but we have been here before.
We will hear fears of a big deficit with full fiscal autonomy, that differing tax rates will mean confusion and a race to the bottom. We will hear from Westminster’s friends in big business who will talk about uncertainty affecting investment; they will claim it will cause a huge black-hole and threaten pensions, to place older people in fear of losing their paltry incomes. And why not? It worked during the Independence referendum and they calculate that it will work again. You might think its a suicidal tactic, after all, talking Scotland down and referendum scaremongering sunk them in the polls. But a Labour insider boasted to me that the more powers argument is keeping the SNP vote high, and if they destroy the case for more powers then they destroy the surge.
Project fear is alive and well, Westminster’s new ‘No to more powers’ campaign has Jim Murphy as its new cheerleader and will come in three stages.
Dont know how to do links but cpl of cut and pastes you can easily research these things
There's only one point in that article that shows any figures and it is completely wrong. I note they don't actually show how they came to their conclusion but I'll show why it's wrong.
The deficit figure is £9.1bn if we don't include income from oil. If we go back a couple of years to 2012/13 when oil was always above $80 and sometimes over $100 then the income from oil that year was under £5bn so it still leaves a massive deficit. We also have to take into account that production has been decreasing since 1999 (and more sharply from 2010 onwards) and the cost of extracting it has increased steeply.
I'll email business for Scotland to see how they came to their conclusions as they don't seem to have any basis in reality. Will let you know the outcome."
Okay, so I messaged BusinessforScotland over the article, that someone posted on here, with the ridiculous claim about oil increasing to $70/$80 wiping out any additional deficit. They've made a subtle change to their article without actually acknowledging that they've changed the claim they were making.
I was gonna say you couldn't make it up, but clearly they do...
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