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Politics thread - adults only

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

A blog which pretty well sums up the thoughts of many of the new politicaly engaged people of Scotland.

Scottish Independence Is Coming - It's Not If It's When!

The independence issue is only going one way. How long it takes will be decided by various factors.

The Red Tories are finished in Scotland. Their policies may have some rationale in a Westminster context, but in Scotland, no one wants to know, especially after the referendum.

The imminent return of a majority Tory government, with the policies outlined at their conference, is making a large number of NO voters realise that they have again been landed with a government (and a fucking evil one at that) that they didn't vote for and are poles apart from.

Meanwhile, in Glasgow, new members of the SNP have been turned away from attending meetings, because the venues were jam-packed, and as full as a banana! I feel the next conference will have to change to a larger venue. As someone said on Facebook, let's make it Wembley and we can get the goalposts again!

And a large pro-indy rally is being held this weekend in George Square, under the banner of "HOPE NOT FEAR". A lot of Yes voters shall be attending, and according to the Facebook pages, a considerable amount of NO voters have already seen the light and defected. And this is to be encouraged, that 6% swing has to be gained and then some. The 45 is growing, that trickle will turn into a deluge.

Failure to deliver on the referendum pledges is inevitable, and even if the 'powers' are granted they are meaningless as a right to set income tax with consequent Barnett reduction gives us no more money to address the problems of austerity and inequality without ridiculous levels of income tax.

All this was predicted and 45% of the electorate understood this. Among the 55% many also did, but decided to remain with the status quo. Many now will feel cheated.

A Tory/UKIP coalition, or a majority Tory government, of the type we saw in action at their conference is very much a grim reality, despite the claims of the NO campaign pre-referendum.

It is all coming to pass, independence is certainly NOT dead. There are many who will move to the independence camp now. Few will go back to the union.

The SNP delivered more in the short period of time that they have had power than anything the RT's has achieved for Scotland in 30 or more years prior; Salmond placed the class traitorism of Labour in the spotlight and effected socially improving policies in the face of a disgraceful, spite-filled Tory party. He knew when to take the honourable action; something which the Westminster careerists and the bitches of big business and the whores of warmongers don't even blush over as they mutter trite mea culpas for their failures yet carry on as before.

"A house divided cannot stand", said Abraham Lincoln, and Scots need to remember this today. The Tories, with their Red chums following saying "Me too, me too!" are systematically demolishing the welfare state. Already, if you have a serious disability such as multiple sclerosis, you cannot expect to get a pittance from the state: you are out on the street. This is the UK we live in now, not the distinguished old country it is often thought of as still. A country that has abandoned all social conscience.

This is about getting out, not staying in. It is madness to hope that with some legislative autonomy Scotland will be safe from the new savage Tory order fast taking shape in the rest of the UK - the food bank and street begging Britain of Iain Duncan Smith (a Scotsman, ironically).

The priority now is to build up the SNP, make sure it gets a big majority in the next election and then have another referendum.

And Cameron now challenging Nicola to honour a pre-referendum pledge that the vote would decide the referendum question for a generation shows that Westminster are now experiencing squeaky bum syndrome.

Let's see you honour your 'vow' first Cameron. That now supercedes the Edinburgh agreement...

Or have you forgotten about that already?

Unless devo max (full fiscal autonomy) is delivered, Scotland will be perfectly within its rights to demand another referendum.

David Cameron knows little of Scotland, nor really cares. Elections are not won, or lost in Scotland. They are won in the south east of England, where the bulk of the population live. He must keep them happy to get re-elected next year. The Conservatives and Unionist Party in Scotland have problems, one MP and his jacket is on a shoogly nail and only 15 MSPs, mostly 'list' MSPs, including their leader, Ruth Davidson (who is being investigated by Police Scotland over her postal votes statement on the BBC just before the results started coming in). The chances of Scotland returning pro Unionist MPs or MSPs diminish with every day agreement on 'powers' to Holyrood pass with no result.

All it does is leave Scotland with a distrust of Westminster and it's politicians, while the SNP, delivering what it promised, gains all the time in Scotland.

The latest opinion polling in Scotland shows a massive swing to SNP with the Red Tories on course to lose half its scottish seats. This on paper would make the SNP larger than the Lib Dems in Westminster - and the SNPs position is clear, they will not enter into coalition with any party in Westminster and will vote against the government of the day all the time over every issue and in short paralyse Parliament.

It is not Nicola Sturgeon who will decide that there is to be another referendum. Nor is it the SNP or even the Scottish Government. And it certainly isn't David Cameron.

Imagine in May the largest number of Scottish MPs going to Westminster to represent the SNP.

Couple that with the real possibility of the need to strike deals with fringe parties to make government work in the UK.

I think you'll find that there are some serious cards to play for in Scotland.

Independence will arrive, within our lifetime - Westminster's bubble has burst. The game's a bogey.

Source huffpost.

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

Is it fling an americam blog at them that will change their minds the first 19 words read fine apart from one important word the word many was used replace with some the facts are plain of the people who voted the majority said no all the rest is conjecture plain and simple

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What a load of tripe...in case you missed it the MAJORITY of people in Scotland voted against this...lighten up and get laid instead.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

This was written by Alan McGee, a man who loves Scotland so much he loves in Wales.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It is the beginning of the end of the empire the vote for no relied very heavily on the older generation who got their info from state endorsed media. But unfortunately for the status quo supporters this is a demographic that is naturally going to pass away and a huge part of them will have died by the time the next vote comes along. They will be replaced by others but the next generation of pensioners will be internet Davy and not have to rely on msnm. The other point is the yes campaign will now know where they failed to get the message accross and will target pensioners to reassure there is little to fear from independance.

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

"It is the beginning of the end of the empire the vote for no relied very heavily on the older generation who got their info from state endorsed media. But unfortunately for the status quo supporters this is a demographic that is naturally going to pass away and a huge part of them will have died by the time the next vote comes along. They will be replaced by others but the next generation of pensioners will be internet Davy and not have to rely on msnm. The other point is the yes campaign will now know where they failed to get the message accross and will target pensioners to reassure there is little to fear from independance."
why is it when folk get old its decided that there point of _iew is off I will probably be a pensioner during one of these referendums and with the same campaigns placed before me I will still make an informed decision that no is the right choice to counter your fear from old folk I counter with give adolescents the vote and work up the freeeeeeeedom factor old young middle aged tory labour green makes no odds with what was placed before folk the decision was no accept it first then steps can be taken to move independance forward as long as this devide remains thats what is debated not scotlands proposed independance

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"What a load of tripe...in case you missed it the MAJORITY of people in Scotland voted against this...lighten up and get laid instead."

"Is it fling an americam blog at them that will change their minds the first 19 words read fine apart from one important word the word many was used replace with some the facts are plain of the people who voted the majority said no all the rest is conjecture plain and simple "

"This was written by Alan McGee, a man who loves Scotland so much he loves in Wales."

Constructive points indeed

Adults and any No voters who are not sheep feel free to join in

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"It is the beginning of the end of the empire the vote for no relied very heavily on the older generation who got their info from state endorsed media. But unfortunately for the status quo supporters this is a demographic that is naturally going to pass away and a huge part of them will have died by the time the next vote comes along. They will be replaced by others but the next generation of pensioners will be internet Davy and not have to rely on msnm. The other point is the yes campaign will now know where they failed to get the message accross and will target pensioners to reassure there is little to fear from independance.why is it when folk get old its decided that there point of _iew is off I will probably be a pensioner during one of these referendums and with the same campaigns placed before me I will still make an informed decision that no is the right choice to counter your fear from old folk I counter with give adolescents the vote and work up the freeeeeeeedom factor old young middle aged tory labour green makes no odds with what was placed before folk the decision was no accept it first then steps can be taken to move independance forward as long as this devide remains thats what is debated not scotlands proposed independance"

Deliver the vow without strings and on time.

Rid the media of London Bias.

Then just maybe Scotland will move forward as one.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"What a load of tripe...in case you missed it the MAJORITY of people in Scotland voted against this...lighten up and get laid instead.

This was written by Alan McGee, a man who loves Scotland so much he loves in Wales.

Constructive points indeed

Adults and any No voters who are not sheep feel free to join in

Many thanks for your permission but for the time being I'm done with it. I said my piece back in September. Since then I don't recall insulting any YES voters ...but there you go!

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"What a load of tripe...in case you missed it the MAJORITY of people in Scotland voted against this...lighten up and get laid instead.

This was written by Alan McGee, a man who loves Scotland so much he loves in Wales.

Constructive points indeed

Adults and any No voters who are not sheep feel free to join in

Many thanks for your permission but for the time being I'm done with it. I said my piece back in September. Since then I don't recall insulting any YES voters ...but there you go!

Steve boy never quoted or said you had jints. If you voted No thats fine if you voted no because of fear that fine as well. If you voted no because of lies and deceipt from ex back benchers and london that's entirely fine by me too.

Have a nice day.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Have a nice day.

Fully intend to thank you muchly. I shan't bother you with my reasoning for voting no....I'll leave you to enjoy your ramblings.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I was a yes voter

It saddens me the amount if hate and childish comments that's getting banded about makes us no better than the MPs

I'm still totally gutted about the outcome

Gutted we lost and yes we did lose

But also gutted that Cameron just the day after us already trying to change "the vow" so much so that Gordon brown felt the need to beg the same folk he promised a better Scotland to sign a petition to remind Cameron what he promised? ... Erm... Ok then

Yes the campaign was lost but please do not expect yes voter just to get over it? It's not gonna happen

I'm 41 and if it takes me until I'm 91 il still be fighting for an independent Scotland

Education is the key iv made my 3 kids watch the whole thing and hope n pray they will remember all the broken promises that were made when it's time for them to vote

Auds x

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I was a yes voter

It saddens me the amount if hate and childish comments that's getting banded about makes us no better than the MPs

I'm still totally gutted about the outcome

Gutted we lost and yes we did lose

Yes the campaign was lost but please do not expect yes voter just to get over it? It's not gonna happen

I'm 41 and if it takes me until I'm 91 il still be fighting for an independent Scotland

Education is the key iv made my 3 kids watch the whole thing and hope n pray they will remember all the broken promises that were made when it's time for them to vote

Auds x "

Nice post Auds, our children are our future.

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By *r and Mrs SnogalotCouple over a year ago

Glasgow

I understand the concerns about broken promises. But surely until we know the outcome of the Smiths Commission then nobody can claim the promises are not being kept.

Ever thought Browns plea for a petition might have been self serving?

Shy

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 14/10/14 11:35:38]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Agree

Nothing has been proposed yet ?

Browns plea didn't exactly fill us with confidence tho?

We can only hope

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

The one thing can be taken from the whole thing is no one is 100% happy in time the devide will close then as a nation we can step forward with whats right let our mps know what we want they are there to serve us not the other way round

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No one can deny that the landscape of politics in Britain has changed on the whole due to the refarendum .

But for the no voters to say enough is enough you've had your fun accept it is a joke , you don't give up at the 1st hurdle , if people believe in a independant scotland and are passionate about it then they'll fight for it ,

The national movement truly has momentum and is gathering pace ther is a national uprising now and it's not going away , this refarendum has only stoked the fire , a lot of no voters will not be aware of it due to mainstream media platforms simply won't report it due to the bias and one sided reporting shown , but be aware independant reporting shows that there is very much a movement of nationalist which is growing all the time , snp membership went thr the roof after the refarendum .

It's a matter of when scotland will become independant not if !

The youth represent the future it's them who will ultimately deliver , there engaged and awakened ,

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Education is the key iv made my 3 kids watch the whole thing and hope n pray they will remember all the broken promises that were made when it's time for them to vote

3 kids and still a great arse

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Education is the key iv made my 3 kids watch the whole thing and hope n pray they will remember all the broken promises that were made when it's time for them to vote

3 kids and still a great arse

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

"No one can deny that the landscape of politics in Britain has changed on the whole due to the refarendum .

It's a matter of when scotland will become independant not if !

The youth represent the future it's them who will ultimately deliver , there engaged and awakened ,

"
no one is asking anyone to give up but to keep trying to forcefeed your point of _iew on what is needed when folk already decided and are tired of hearing and reading as for bias lol its always we didnt get this or that during the referendum I tired of seeing pro yes programmes the no campaign had zero campaign till they believed it was close and yup they went into overdrive dont change that before this it was all the yes brigade plying the airwaves with our destiny and freedom let the devide heal stop picking the scab keep picking everyone digs their heels in result the same as last time

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"No one can deny that the landscape of politics in Britain has changed on the whole due to the refarendum .

It's a matter of when scotland will become independant not if !

The youth represent the future it's them who will ultimately deliver , there engaged and awakened ,

no one is asking anyone to give up but to keep trying to forcefeed your point of _iew on what is needed when folk already decided and are tired of hearing and reading as for bias lol its always we didnt get this or that during the referendum I tired of seeing pro yes programmes the no campaign had zero campaign till they believed it was close and yup they went into overdrive dont change that before this it was all the yes brigade plying the airwaves with our destiny and freedom let the devide heal stop picking the scab keep picking everyone digs their heels in result the same as last time"

The No voters should be hell bent on holding those to task for promises that we all know won't materialise.

Brown asking for a petition ?

Cameron begging ?

Clegg wondering who lied best so he can jump into bed with them ?

Prospect of a majority tory govt with Boris and Farrage in cahoots ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I saw clegg on TV last night and actually felt sorry for him

His party is a joke now

Just like labour

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

The promises or vow ?? Nothing specific was promised and most folk I know who voted no did so because of a pipedream independance proposal so how to you hold someone or some party to account when there is no specific promised other than more devolved powers its barely over there has been no time to put together a fair deal for all regions so much noise about "the vow" its the yes voters who have their knickers in a twistover Iit no one else

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I saw clegg on TV last night and actually felt sorry for him

His party is a joke now

Just like labour

Red tories ?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"The promises or vow ?? Nothing specific was promised and most folk I know who voted no did so because of a pipedream independance proposal so how to you hold someone or some party to account when there is no specific promised other than more devolved powers its barely over there has been no time to put together a fair deal for all regions so much noise about "the vow" its the yes voters who have their knickers in a twistover Iit no one else"

*shakes head in disbelief*

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

"
lol maybe my point was more that the vow or pledge or promises had zero specifics it was mearly a vow if scotland remained in the uk there wouldbe more devolved powers Iif they allow scotland to sell its own s**t then they live up to the vow as you cant hold to account when there is zero specifics

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

It worth mentioning the only place 'vow' appeared was in a newspaper headline.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Sorry I disagree kola I do honestly think a lot of undecided voters and yes voters changed their minds when the promise of devolution was made

You have to agree it was looking a bit bleak for the government until that promise was made and the trainful of MPs rolled into Glasgow

Even myself swayed a bit as in maybe it's easier to agree than fear if the unknown ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It worth mentioning the only place 'vow' appeared was in a newspaper headline."
which the majority of Scotland voters saw _nny

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

"Sorry I disagree kola I do honestly think a lot of undecided voters and yes voters changed their minds when the promise of devolution was made

You have to agree it was looking a bit bleak for the government until that promise was made and the trainful of MPs rolled into Glasgow

Even myself swayed a bit as in maybe it's easier to agree than fear if the unknown ? "
it may have swayed some folk it made zero diffrence to me I feel the biggest problem the yes campaign had wasnt the no campaign it was lack of a clearly defined proposal had a decent one been placed on the table I believe a landslide was there for the taking but the cry of freedom can only carry you so far Iim sure you saw the debates where mr salmond ended up looking like a fish out the water whenchallenged on his pproposals this is what lost the yes vote im sure there are many like me want a free scotland but not with a it will be alright we have oil attitude alot of folk believe it was wrong for 16yr olds to have a voice I mean vote for independance then tou cant vote who is in power for two yrs the yes campaign knew that was there biggest believers as some would say kids who dont grasp the full concept I do believe its those who voted yes who are making the most noise about the vow I believe most no voters did so without the vow being an issue

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"It worth mentioning the only place 'vow' appeared was in a newspaper headline.which the majority of Scotland voters saw _nny "

Does that mean the majority of Scotland's voters believe everything they see in newspapers?

The Record used 'vow' cos they couldn't fit 'promise' into the headline at that font size.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It worth mentioning the only place 'vow' appeared was in a newspaper headline.which the majority of Scotland voters saw _nny

Does that mean the majority of Scotland's voters believe everything they see in newspapers?

The Record used 'vow' cos they couldn't fit 'promise' into the headline at that font size."
sadly a lot did /do _nny

Fingers crossed it is a promise

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Sorry I disagree kola I do honestly think a lot of undecided voters and yes voters changed their minds when the promise of devolution was made

You have to agree it was looking a bit bleak for the government until that promise was made and the trainful of MPs rolled into Glasgow

Even myself swayed a bit as in maybe it's easier to agree than fear if the unknown ? it may have swayed some folk it made zero diffrence to me I feel the biggest problem the yes campaign had wasnt the no campaign it was lack of a clearly defined proposal had a decent one been placed on the table I believe a landslide was there for the taking but the cry of freedom can only carry you so far Iim sure you saw the debates where mr salmond ended up looking like a fish out the water whenchallenged on his pproposals this is what lost the yes vote im sure there are many like me want a free scotland but not with a it will be alright we have oil attitude alot of folk believe it was wrong for 16yr olds to have a voice I mean vote for independance then tou cant vote who is in power for two yrs the yes campaign knew that was there biggest believers as some would say kids who dont grasp the full concept I do believe its those who voted yes who are making the most noise about the vow I believe most no voters did so without the vow being an issue"
salmond couldn't and wouldn't promise anything cause he was in no position to

If a yes vote won it was all going to have to be negotiated

He couldn't come out and say we are gonna do A B C

Because the government held all control

Yes it was always gonna be a huge leap into the unknown

Unfortunatly the majority felt it was a leap to far

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Cameron not even turning up at the debate in the house of commons today.

As the leading force behind the union its quite sickening but not unexpected.

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

"Sorry I disagree kola I do honestly think a lot of undecided voters and yes voters changed their minds when the promise of devolution was made

You have to agree it was looking a bit bleak for the government until that promise was made and the trainful of MPs rolled into Glasgow

Even myself swayed a bit as in maybe it's easier to agree than fear if the unknown ? it may have swayed some folk it made zero diffrence to me I feel the biggest problem the yes campaign had wasnt the no campaign it was lack of a clearly defined proposal had a decent one been placed on the table I believe a landslide was there for the taking but the cry of freedom can only carry you so far Iim sure you saw the debates where mr salmond ended up looking like a fish out the water whenchallenged on his pproposals this is what lost the yes vote im sure there are many like me want a free scotland but not with a it will be alright we have oil attitude alot of folk believe it was wrong for 16yr olds to have a voice I mean vote for independance then tou cant vote who is in power for two yrs the yes campaign knew that was there biggest believers as some would say kids who dont grasp the full concept I do believe its those who voted yes who are making the most noise about the vow I believe most no voters did so without the vow being an issuesalmond couldn't and wouldn't promise anything cause he was in no position to

If a yes vote won it was all going to have to be negotiated

He couldn't come out and say we are gonna do A B C

Because the government held all control

Yes it was always gonna be a huge leap into the unknown

Unfortunatly the majority felt it was a leap to far "

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"It worth mentioning the only place 'vow' appeared was in a newspaper headline.which the majority of Scotland voters saw _nny

Does that mean the majority of Scotland's voters believe everything they see in newspapers?

The Record used 'vow' cos they couldn't fit 'promise' into the headline at that font size.sadly a lot did /do _nny

Fingers crossed it is a promise "

It IS a promise and will be kept despite Pete Wishart on Andrew Neil insisting it's all gone wrong and will never happen even BEFORE the start of the Commons debate.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"Sorry I disagree kola I do honestly think a lot of undecided voters and yes voters changed their minds when the promise of devolution was made

You have to agree it was looking a bit bleak for the government until that promise was made and the trainful of MPs rolled into Glasgow

Even myself swayed a bit as in maybe it's easier to agree than fear if the unknown ? it may have swayed some folk it made zero diffrence to me I feel the biggest problem the yes campaign had wasnt the no campaign it was lack of a clearly defined proposal had a decent one been placed on the table I believe a landslide was there for the taking but the cry of freedom can only carry you so far Iim sure you saw the debates where mr salmond ended up looking like a fish out the water whenchallenged on his pproposals this is what lost the yes vote im sure there are many like me want a free scotland but not with a it will be alright we have oil attitude alot of folk believe it was wrong for 16yr olds to have a voice I mean vote for independance then tou cant vote who is in power for two yrs the yes campaign knew that was there biggest believers as some would say kids who dont grasp the full concept I do believe its those who voted yes who are making the most noise about the vow I believe most no voters did so without the vow being an issuesalmond couldn't and wouldn't promise anything cause he was in no position to

If a yes vote won it was all going to have to be negotiated

He couldn't come out and say we are gonna do A B C

Because the government held all control

Yes it was always gonna be a huge leap into the unknown

Unfortunatly the majority felt it was a leap to far "

That's where Yes went wrong.

Salmond and the others insisted this and that (the pound, NATO, the EU and so on) WOULD happen despite the fact he was in no position to make such promises.

He blew it and has, rightly, fallen on his claymore.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I wish I had your faith _nny

Only time will tell

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"It IS a promise and will be kept despite Pete Wishart on Andrew Neil insisting it's all gone wrong and will never happen even BEFORE the start of the Commons debate."

The debate that Cameron et al can't be arsed attending as it's only Scotland.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"I wish I had your faith _nny

Only time will tell "

Have faith until you have reason not to.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The year is 2062 and what do I wake up to?

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"It IS a promise and will be kept despite Pete Wishart on Andrew Neil insisting it's all gone wrong and will never happen even BEFORE the start of the Commons debate.

The debate that Cameron et al can't be arsed attending as it's only Scotland. "

It's the job of the Leader of the House (which is possibly the reason Hague was moved).

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Cameron not even turning up at the debate in the house of commons today.

As the leading force behind the union its quite sickening but not unexpected. "

Cameron to busy trying to look big on the world stage for matters at home .

I'm sick of Britain invading countries in wars that in the past where clearly illegal stating countries had nuclear reactors when they didn't , making enemies which in turn is causing ethnic division on this very land !

If we pull out if Europe then that's the end for me , I'm moving to Ireland

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"He blew it and has, rightly, fallen on his claymore."

Salmond achieved much more for Scotland than Brown ever did.

3 years as PM he could have delivered then what he promised in september but failed to do so, in fact brown was opposed to more devolved powers.

Salmond went with dignity an act quite a few would do well to follow.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think a lot are thinking the same as me

Obama says jump

Cameron says how high

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"If we pull out if Europe then that's the end for me , I'm moving to Ireland

If we pull out of Europe then another referendum can be called for Scotland.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think a lot are thinking the same as me

Obama says jump

Cameron says how high

Although I do like Obama in humanitarian terms to bush !

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I think a lot are thinking the same as me

Obama says jump

Cameron says how high

I always pictured more a get on your knees and suck this bitch

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If we pull out if Europe then that's the end for me , I'm moving to Ireland

If we pull out of Europe then another referendum can be called for Scotland."

Is that another route ?

Britain don't won't be part of Europe because they don't have the power !

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By *wiftieeMan over a year ago

near Glasgow

OP joined just 4 weeks ago, when was the referendum?

OP, there is so much of what you say that is utter rubbish, untrue, and assumption. I simply don't have the time to discuss with you, and in fact attempting to have a civil discussion with you would no doubt be impossible.

I'll say just 2 things: Alex Salmond lost the referendum BECAUSE HE FAILED TO ANSWER PEOPLES' QUESTIONS! TOTALLY!! If the majority of NO voters were older folk, the simple reason for that is that they voted with their heads. not their hearts as obviously a lot of younger people did.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The unfortunate truth here is a helluva lot of NO voters did switch in the last week when Devo Max hit the table and the big guns came up to appease the peasants.

They read the media and believed Browns last minute plea and the "vow"

Thing is this so called vow is no more a leap of faith into the unknown as was voting YES nobody can tell the future. Business leaders can and have to make educated guesses for 3-5 years in advance

So far only the SNP have did this whether you like their findings or think its a pipe dream

If the Smith Commission deliver what the YES campaign are holding them too and believe me history has shown this won't happen, then we will have a chance to see them put majority of that pipe dream into action. If it works then there will be another Independance Referendum down the line and there will be no excuses the SNP will have proven Salmond was right.

If the commission does deliver and the Scottish Parliament fails to deliver in the next 5 years then the SNP will disappear with no credibility left

We have an uncertain 5 years ahead of us either way

Just a case of wait and see what happens

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"If we pull out if Europe then that's the end for me , I'm moving to Ireland

If we pull out of Europe then another referendum can be called for Scotland.

Is that another route ?

Britain don't won't be part of Europe because they don't have the power !

It is indeed another route which is why Cameron is at logger heads with UKIP

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The unfortunate truth here is a helluva lot of NO voters did switch in the last week when Devo Max hit the table and the big guns came up to appease the peasants.

They read the media and believed Browns last minute plea and the "vow"

Thing is this so called vow is no more a leap of faith into the unknown as was voting YES nobody can tell the future. Business leaders can and have to make educated guesses for 3-5 years in advance

So far only the SNP have did this whether you like their findings or think its a pipe dream

If the commission does deliver and the Scottish Parliament fails to deliver in the next 5 years then the SNP will disappear with no credibility left

We have an uncertain 5 years ahead of us either way

Just a case of wait and see what happens "

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"OP joined just 4 weeks ago, when was the referendum?

Sorry i thought anyone could post on forums or is it only clique ?

Feel free to add a worthwhile contribution anytime you wish or you could always stick to the cake and good morning threads.

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By *leasure domMan over a year ago

Edinburgh

The referendum was testament to the collapse of the labour core vote in Glasgow, which the cabal of labour apparatchiks in city chambers and their gangster friends have been able to rely on to give them a cushy and rewarding lifestyle .... result!

With libdums facing electoral annihilation, the tories remaining irrelevant and labour support jumping off the sinking ship in droves, we can look forward to better times in politics.

Indy within 5 - 10 years and the wastemonster gravy train permanently derailed for our parcel o' rogues.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The referendum was testament to the collapse of the labour core vote in Glasgow, which the cabal of labour apparatchiks in city chambers and their gangster friends have been able to rely on to give them a cushy and rewarding lifestyle .... result!

With libdums facing electoral annihilation, the tories remaining irrelevant and labour support jumping off the sinking ship in droves, we can look forward to better times in politics.

Indy within 5 - 10 years and the wastemonster gravy train permanently derailed for our parcel o' rogues."
.

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By *wiftieeMan over a year ago

near Glasgow

"Sorry i thought anyone could post on forums or is it only clique ?

Feel free to add a worthwhile contribution anytime you wish or you could always stick to the cake and good morning threads.

You obviously see yourself as a bit of a comedian OP. But thanks for your permission to post.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Sorry i thought anyone could post on forums or is it only clique ?

Feel free to add a worthwhile contribution anytime you wish or you could always stick to the cake and good morning threads.

You obviously see yourself as a bit of a comedian OP. But thanks for your permission to post.

Jints will be so proud of you

Have a nice days too

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

When does a no mean yes? To the "activist" of the yes campaign obviously.

We had a vote and "the people of Scotland" (as fish face and the bride of chucky ) would say said NO

I seems that some people can't handle democracy and is the bottom line.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Sorry i thought anyone could post on forums or is it only clique ?

Feel free to add a worthwhile contribution anytime you wish or you could always stick to the cake and good morning threads.

You obviously see yourself as a bit of a comedian OP. But thanks for your permission to post.

Jints will be so proud of you

Have a nice days too

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Now now adults lol

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"When does a no mean yes? To the "activist" of the yes campaign obviously.

We had a vote and "the people of Scotland" (as fish face and the bride of chucky ) would say said NO

I seems that some people can't handle democracy and is the bottom line.

So we should accept lies and bend over to take the next shafting ?

There is no polite way to say this but.

Fuck that !

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By *leasure domMan over a year ago

Edinburgh

"When does a no mean yes? To the "activist" of the yes campaign obviously.

We had a vote and "the people of Scotland" (as fish face and the bride of chucky ) would say said NO

I seems that some people can't handle democracy and is the bottom line.

Unionist "democracy" = one vote in 300 years.

Unionist "democracy" = subverting the will of the majority in 1979.

Unionist "democracy" = a campaign of lies, deception and scaremongering to swing the vote.

Unionist "democracy" talks about settling this for all time - yet the electoral roll changes every five years!!!!!

If that is your understanding of democracy, thanks but no thanks. A new voting roll will return to this in the not too distant future.

Just get used to that. The campaign for independence will only grow until it prevails - and time is on our side.

You can take that to the bank ..... in the currency of your choice!

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By *nvercoupleCouple over a year ago

Inverness

Im massive pro independence but now is not the time to be talking about it, and FAB is not the place to discuss it.

Westminster Elections coming up next Year and the full details of what new powers coming to Scotland will be released towards the end of this month.

Wait to see what we get and take it from there.

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By *unglasgow69Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Swinging Stevie & the rest of the yes the fact that your lot are still crying nearly 4 weeks later & yes you know what I am loving your pain. Your insane ramblings about Independence & how promises have been broken (which they have not) are a great source of amusement. How there is a movement towards independence erm is there really??? Fact is when u include the people who didn't vote they have to be included as Nos simply because they did not vote yes it works out the Yes campaign only got 37% of the votes opposed to 63% who either didn't vote or said No. That is not a movement it's not even close. Be proud to be Scottish & also be proud to be British Stevie ???????????????? U might even get rid of that xenophobic chip of your shoulder.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Swinging Stevie & the rest of the yes the fact that your lot are still crying nearly 4 weeks later & yes you know what I am loving your pain. Your insane ramblings about Independence & how promises have been broken (which they have not) are a great source of amusement. How there is a movement towards independence erm is there really??? Fact is when u include the people who didn't vote they have to be included as Nos simply because they did not vote yes it works out the Yes campaign only got 37% of the votes opposed to 63% who either didn't vote or said No. That is not a movement it's not even close. Be proud to be Scottish & also be proud to be British Stevie ???????????????? U might even get rid of that xenophobic chip of your shoulder. "

i voted yes and have excepted the result but to say we should just give up is an insult to the 1.6million who voted yes ,im with invercpl and will wait and see what new powers the vow will bring us if its not what we where promised then its up to everyone wether yes or no to use their vote at general election to wipe condems and labour out in scotland

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

I have been a 'No' voter the whole way through and nothing has changed my mind since.

The 'Yes' campaign should continue with their hope, it would be a terrible outcome if they didn't.

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By *r and Mrs SnogalotCouple over a year ago

Glasgow

When Martin Luther King was fighting for the rights if black people - do we honestly think he gave up at the first barrier?

When the suffragettes were fighting for woman's rights - they didn't stop when someone said no.

So for those who think the yes campaign should shut up - why the hell should they?

Many in our history fought for free speech and nobody has the right to demand silence just because their political beliefs differ from your own.

Me, am a No voter - never was going to vote Yes as I am as proud of my British heritage as I am of being born in Scotland.

Shy

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By *unglasgow69Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Not saying the 1.6m should give up. But end off the day 1.6m only equates to 37% of the electoral roll of Scotland. Fact 63% voted No or did not vote at all tells you that it's not just quite as close as the yes side are making out. I would Say thats quite a gulf. All we hear from the yes side is 1.6m blah blah & how your opinion & voices have to be heard. So what you are trying to do is force your opinions onto the 63% who said No. You had your chance u failed quite convincingly.. Before we start getting cries from Stevie again of broken promises today all the major parties have got round a table to discuss what extra powers will be given. These discussions will take weeks maybe months before a deal is struck that all 4 parties are happy with. So why don't we see what the final outcome is before the yes lot start crying foul again.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"When does a no mean yes? To the "activist" of the yes campaign obviously.

We had a vote and "the people of Scotland" (as fish face and the bride of chucky ) would say said NO

I seems that some people can't handle democracy and is the bottom line.

Is that the third time you've threw that democracy line in the forums? Democratic rule isn't always fair and equal. 99% of the time it will work in favour of the majority but not when millions have been lied to in order for 1 side to gain democratic power. Read a book.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"When Martin Luther King was fighting for the rights if black people - do we honestly think he gave up at the first barrier?

When the suffragettes were fighting for woman's rights - they didn't stop when someone said no.

So for those who think the yes campaign should shut up - why the hell should they?

Many in our history fought for free speech and nobody has the right to demand silence just because their political beliefs differ from your own.

Me, am a No voter - never was going to vote Yes as I am as proud of my British heritage as I am of being born in Scotland.

Shy

well said

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Im massive pro independence but now is not the time to be talking about it, and FAB is not the place to discuss it.

Westminster Elections coming up next Year and the full details of what new powers coming to Scotland will be released towards the end of this month.

Wait to see what we get and take it from there.

"
why is it not?

It's an open forum about anything someone wants to talk about

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" Not saying the 1.6m should give up. But end off the day 1.6m only equates to 37% of the electoral roll of Scotland. Fact 63% voted No or did not vote at all tells you that it's not just quite as close as the yes side are making out. I would Say thats quite a gulf. All we hear from the yes side is 1.6m blah blah & how your opinion & voices have to be heard. So what you are trying to do is force your opinions onto the 63% who said No. You had your chance u failed quite convincingly.. Before we start getting cries from Stevie again of broken promises today all the major parties have got round a table to discuss what extra powers will be given. These discussions will take weeks maybe months before a deal is struck that all 4 parties are happy with. So why don't we see what the final outcome is before the yes lot start crying foul again."

im not trying to force my opinion on anyone im giving my own opinion in an open forum ,and as i have said i have excepted the result and will wait for general election and will vote snp and im sure you will vote for whoever you choose,also pls use facts as result was 55-45 .

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By *wiftieeMan over a year ago

near Glasgow

"Sorry i thought anyone could post on forums or is it only clique ?

Feel free to add a worthwhile contribution anytime you wish or you could always stick to the cake and good morning threads.

You obviously see yourself as a bit of a comedian OP. But thanks for your permission to post.

Jints will be so proud of you

Have a nice days too

Ehhhh.............what has Jinty got to do with this??

Btw, I think you're a wonderful advert for the SNP and the independence cause! More power to your elbow sir.

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By *unglasgow69Man over a year ago

Glasgow

I am using facts but these are facts the yes voters like you do not want to hear. It was 55-45 split of those who voted. However if people did not vote yes then they are happy with the status quo. Then the 63% is accurate whether you want to accept it or not Funlovingcouple. Only 37% of the electoral roll of Scotland voted yes u might not like it but it's FACT!!!!??

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I was a yes voter

It saddens me the amount if hate and childish comments that's getting banded about makes us no better than the MPs

I'm still totally gutted about the outcome

Gutted we lost and yes we did lose

Yes the campaign was lost but please do not expect yes voter just to get over it? It's not gonna happen

I'm 41 and if it takes me until I'm 91 il still be fighting for an independent Scotland

Education is the key iv made my 3 kids watch the whole thing and hope n pray they will remember all the broken promises that were made when it's time for them to vote

Auds x "

Our teenage son just missed the cut off age for voting & he was gutted. He watched all the debates, researched online and took it very seriously. if nothing else this has encouraged a whole new generation to get involved in politics & make sure their voice is heard to change things for the better. I hope whatever way you voted your passion & enthusiasm doesn't lessen, I know mine won't. And for my children's sake I hope there is another referendum in my lifetime.

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By *r and Mrs SnogalotCouple over a year ago

Glasgow

"Our teenage son just missed the cut off age for voting & he was gutted. He watched all the debates, researched online and took it very seriously. if nothing else this has encouraged a whole new generation to get involved in politics & make sure their voice is heard to change things for the better. I hope whatever way you voted your passion & enthusiasm doesn't lessen, I know mine won't. And for my children's sake I hope there is another referendum in my lifetime.

Dx"

If this referendum has achieved one thing it is wakening people up to the importance of voting and I hope it continues

Shy x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"When does a no mean yes? To the "activist" of the yes campaign obviously.

We had a vote and "the people of Scotland" (as fish face and the bride of chucky ) would say said NO

I seems that some people can't handle democracy and is the bottom line.

So we should accept lies and bend over to take the next shafting ?

There is no polite way to say this but.

Fuck that !

Yes you should !!! don't fight the shafting you may enjoy it lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If this referendum has achieved one thing it is wakening people up to the importance of voting and I hope it continues

Shy x"
totally agree

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I am using facts but these are facts the yes voters like you do not want to hear. It was 55-45 split of those who voted. However if people did not vote yes then they are happy with the status quo. Then the 63% is accurate whether you want to accept it or not Funlovingcouple. Only 37% of the electoral roll of Scotland voted yes u might not like it but it's FACT!!!!??"

I think the reason it's called a vote is because you only count the people that voted. The clue is in the title !

I could be wrong though. It's far more likely that your wrong and your just using that electoral role line to make a point which kinda becomes irrelevent.

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

"I was a yes voter

It saddens me the amount if hate and childish comments that's getting banded about makes us no better than the MPs

I'm still totally gutted about the outcome

Gutted we lost and yes we did lose

Yes the campaign was lost but please do not expect yes voter just to get over it? It's not gonna happen

I'm 41 and if it takes me until I'm 91 il still be fighting for an independent Scotland

Education is the key iv made my 3 kids watch the whole thing and hope n pray they will remember all the broken promises that were made when it's time for them to vote

Auds x

Dx"
I sincerly wish this was the case im sure im not the only person who abstains from voting my reasons are I have zero faith in any politician or party to actually do as they say my belief is a period of anarchy is needed and from that true partys and values could emerge but as long as the system remains as is these folk in my opinion will continue to fill their pockets

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By *unglasgow69Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Typical yes voter oral marathon when u r giving facts u don't like u simply try to discredit them. Fact remains of a population of over 5m in Scotland only 1.6m voted yes!!!!! Where does that suggest a desire for change??? Only 37% of the nation share ur desire for change that is a Fact

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

ok you keep telling yourself that il stick with 55-45.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Sorry i thought anyone could post on forums or is it only clique ?

Feel free to add a worthwhile contribution anytime you wish or you could always stick to the cake and good morning threads.

You obviously see yourself as a bit of a comedian OP. But thanks for your permission to post.

Jints will be so proud of you

Have a nice days too

That's Miss McGinty to you, Mike!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I was a yes voter

It saddens me the amount if hate and childish comments that's getting banded about makes us no better than the MPs

I'm still totally gutted about the outcome

Gutted we lost and yes we did lose

Yes the campaign was lost but please do not expect yes voter just to get over it? It's not gonna happen

I'm 41 and if it takes me until I'm 91 il still be fighting for an independent Scotland

Education is the key iv made my 3 kids watch the whole thing and hope n pray they will remember all the broken promises that were made when it's time for them to vote

Auds x

Dx"

i was at george sqare rally on sunday with my daughter and it was great to see the all the teens and kids there and taking an interest in politics.

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By *unglasgow69Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Lovingfuncouple I will continue to report the FACTS only 37% of the nation of Scotland agrees with ur desire of Independence. So you keep clinging to your 55-45 split. Don't forget 28 out of 32 regions said no. The desire of the 63% is not there for independence.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If this referendum has achieved one thing it is wakening people up to the importance of voting and I hope it continues

Shy x"

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By *hybutnaughtyoneWoman over a year ago

Glasgow

"I was a yes voter

It saddens me the amount if hate and childish comments that's getting banded about makes us no better than the MPs

I'm still totally gutted about the outcome

Gutted we lost and yes we did lose

Yes the campaign was lost but please do not expect yes voter just to get over it? It's not gonna happen

I'm 41 and if it takes me until I'm 91 il still be fighting for an independent Scotland

Education is the key iv made my 3 kids watch the whole thing and hope n pray they will remember all the broken promises that were made when it's time for them to vote

Auds x "

I feel the exact same....I remember the years after 1979 and how Scotland was shafted by Westminster....x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Lovingfuncouple I will continue to report the FACTS only 37% of the nation of Scotland agrees with ur desire of Independence. So you keep clinging to your 55-45 split. Don't forget 28 out of 32 regions said no. The desire of the 63% is not there for independence. "

Does that mean that 54% of the scottish electorate DONT want to retain a union with Great Britian?

It's called a vote for a reason. People vote, those votes are counted and the results are made public.

I'll happily be a "typical yes voter" but I'm genuinely not sure what that is.

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By *unglasgow69Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Oral Marathon ur figures are baffling as was your comment. What I will say is 63% are happy to remain in the Union why???? Simply they did not vote yes. It can't be anymore clearer than that even to you though no doubt u will try to spin it.

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By *i_garyMan over a year ago

glasgow

I see the price of crude oil has continued to drop. In the space of 4 months it's gone from around $113 a barrell to $86.

The SNP predicted Oil revenues for 2013/14 would be between £8.3 and £7.1 billion. They were only £4 billion.

Will be interesting to see how far out their figures are for 2014/15 given the dramatic drop in price. I notice that when they were pulled up for the earlier figures being wrong they ignored that and just blindly went on about expected revenues (all based incorrectly on a price of $110 a barrel)

Being wrong by billions of pounds every year in an independent Scotland would be absolutely catastrophic for the economy. Thank god I voted no.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Could also bring up the oil they say they didn't have ... Then all of a sudden...bang!! Oh ... There it's there

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By *r and Mrs SnogalotCouple over a year ago

Glasgow

"Oral Marathon ur figures are baffling as was your comment. What I will say is 63% are happy to remain in the Union why???? Simply they did not vote yes. It can't be anymore clearer than that even to you though no doubt u will try to spin it. "

You are making an assumption that the 15(ish)% that did not vote chose not to because they were happy with the status quo. Not sure that isn't a bit of a leap.

There will be a variety of reasons - some which may be status quo....

Shy

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Could also bring up the oil they say they didn't have ... Then all of a sudden...bang!! Oh ... There it's there

Funny that, bit like a Paul Daniels magic trick.

Now you see it, now you don't, wave of the wand and there it is again!.... As if by magic.

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By *lassic1Man over a year ago

bellshill

"I was a yes voter

It saddens me the amount if hate and childish comments that's getting banded about makes us no better than the MPs

I'm still totally gutted about the outcome

Gutted we lost and yes we did lose

Yes the campaign was lost but please do not expect yes voter just to get over it? It's not gonna happen

I'm 41 and if it takes me until I'm 91 il still be fighting for an independent Scotland

Education is the key iv made my 3 kids watch the whole thing and hope n pray they will remember all the broken promises that were made when it's time for them to vote

Auds x

DxI sincerly wish this was the case im sure im not the only person who abstains from voting my reasons are I have zero faith in any politician or party to actually do as they say my belief is a period of anarchy is needed and from that true partys and values could emerge but as long as the system remains as is these folk in my opinion will continue to fill their pockets"

You are gutted you lost but still admitted you abstained ....I mean WTF...sounds like you are a wow at any political discusion ,...I dont think

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By *i_garyMan over a year ago

glasgow

"Could also bring up the oil they say they didn't have ... Then all of a sudden...bang!! Oh ... There it's there

You could, but I'm not sure how that addresses my post. Also, that could be countered by the SNP's over optimistic _iew of production increases (which is seperate from their over optimistic _iew of oil prices)

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

"I was a yes voter

It saddens me the amount if hate and childish comments that's getting banded about makes us no better than the MPs

I'm still totally gutted about the outcome

Gutted we lost and yes we did lose

Yes the campaign was lost but please do not expect yes voter just to get over it? It's not gonna happen

I'm 41 and if it takes me until I'm 91 il still be fighting for an independent Scotland

Education is the key iv made my 3 kids watch the whole thing and hope n pray they will remember all the broken promises that were made when it's time for them to vote

Auds x

You are gutted you lost but still admitted you abstained ....I mean WTF...sounds like you are a wow at any political discusion ,...I dont think

"
excuse me I abstain from politics the referendum vote I participated in as it was a major decision to take into consideration and lost?? I lost nothing if you actually read what I wrote I gave myreasons for abstaining from normal electoral votes just because I choose to show my displeasure by abstention does not mean I dont have a firm grasp of the situation

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I was a yes voter

It saddens me the amount if hate and childish comments that's getting banded about makes us no better than the MPs

I'm still totally gutted about the outcome

Gutted we lost and yes we did lose

Yes the campaign was lost but please do not expect yes voter just to get over it? It's not gonna happen

I'm 41 and if it takes me until I'm 91 il still be fighting for an independent Scotland

Education is the key iv made my 3 kids watch the whole thing and hope n pray they will remember all the broken promises that were made when it's time for them to vote

Auds x

You are gutted you lost but still admitted you abstained ....I mean WTF...sounds like you are a wow at any political discusion ,...I dont think

hate to be the one to tell you but, it was kola who posted about abstaining, janda1 who posted about being gutted.

two different people..... maybe redirect that WTF to yourself

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By *lassic1Man over a year ago

bellshill

"I was a yes voter

It saddens me the amount if hate and childish comments that's getting banded about makes us no better than the MPs

I'm still totally gutted about the outcome

Gutted we lost and yes we did lose

Yes the campaign was lost but please do not expect yes voter just to get over it? It's not gonna happen

I'm 41 and if it takes me until I'm 91 il still be fighting for an independent Scotland

Education is the key iv made my 3 kids watch the whole thing and hope n pray they will remember all the broken promises that were made when it's time for them to vote

Auds x

You are gutted you lost but still admitted you abstained ....I mean WTF...sounds like you are a wow at any political discusion ,...I dont think

excuse me I abstain from politics the referendum vote I participated in as it was a major decision to take into consideration and lost?? I lost nothing if you actually read what I wrote I gave myreasons for abstaining from normal electoral votes just because I choose to show my displeasure by abstention does not mean I dont have a firm grasp of the situation "

Sounds like you have a firm grasp of something but lets just say its not the situation

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

Oh dear my apparent no 1 fan has spotted his mistake and wants to turn to a backhanded dig lol pathetic

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In my heart of hearts I always knew it was gonna be a no vote

Did it stop me voting yes

Hell no !

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Come on peeps

It's a debate please don't turn personal

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

You are making an assumption that the 15(ish)% that did not vote chose not to because they were happy with the status quo. Not sure that isn't a bit of a leap.

There will be a variety of reasons - some which may be status quo....

Shy "

If the 15% had been unhappy with the status quo, each of them had the opportunity to vote Yes.

The didn't take it.

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By *r and Mrs SnogalotCouple over a year ago

Glasgow

You are making an assumption that the 15(ish)% that did not vote chose not to because they were happy with the status quo. Not sure that isn't a bit of a leap.

There will be a variety of reasons - some which may be status quo....

Shy

If the 15% had been unhappy with the status quo, each of them had the opportunity to vote Yes.

The didn't take it."

I agree - but I won't assume they were happy with it either.

Shy x

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman over a year ago

Glenrothes

Much as I was and still am passionate about Scotland becoming independent, I think the time for posting on here has had its day. Let's get back to having Fab for fun. Threads on this subject just seem to bring out the worst in some people.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Sorry I disagree

As before it's an open and over 100 posts so clearly still in people's thoughts

Just sometimes some get a bit childish

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

"Sorry I disagree

As before it's an open and over 100 posts so clearly still in people's thoughts

Just sometimes some get a bit childish "
agreed its a very enjoyable debate at times our _iews are slightly diffrent and I do enjoy reading your points and seeing the merits they hold

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Sorry I disagree

As before it's an open and over 100 posts so clearly still in people's thoughts

Just sometimes some get a bit childish agreed its a very enjoyable debate at times our _iews are slightly diffrent and I do enjoy reading your points and seeing the merits they hold"

Nothing wrong with being passionate either way, just keep it civil

I like a good debate.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Sorry I disagree

As before it's an open and over 100 posts so clearly still in people's thoughts

Just sometimes some get a bit childish agreed its a very enjoyable debate at times our _iews are slightly diffrent and I do enjoy reading your points and seeing the merits they hold"
snap x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"What a load of tripe...in case you missed it the MAJORITY of people in Scotland voted against this...lighten up and get laid instead.

This was written by Alan McGee, a man who loves Scotland so much he loves in Wales.

Constructive points indeed

Adults and any No voters who are not sheep feel free to join in

Many thanks for your permission but for the time being I'm done with it. I said my piece back in September. Since then I don't recall insulting any YES voters ...but there you go!

Well said

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If the 15% had been unhappy with the status quo, each of them had the opportunity to vote Yes.

The didn't take it."

Why didn't the 15% go and vote in support of the Union ??? You are continuely using non-voters in your statement regarding a result they did not take part in. Do you not get why that doesn't make sense ?

if you don't vote, you offer no opinion. It doesn't mean you give your opinion to whichever side claims it.

I'm happy with the Yea campaign, I'm happy with the political motivation the referendum gave the country.

I'm not happy about a bias media system having such an influence on the outcome. The British media system is in place to inform and to act as a watchdog. That didn't happen in this referendum and it won't happen again for some time. Britain is broken Im afraid. That's why it's time to leave now but i understand many people will have to wait a bit longer.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

If the 15% had been unhappy with the status quo, each of them had the opportunity to vote Yes.

The didn't take it.

if you don't vote, you offer no opinion. It doesn't mean you give your opinion to whichever side claims it.

...... "

The question wasn't 'do you support the Union?'. It was, at Salmond's behest 'should Scotland be an independent country?'

Anyone who wanted Scotland to be independent had to vote Yes. c 45% did so.

The remainder didn't.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If the 15% had been unhappy with the status quo, each of them had the opportunity to vote Yes.

The didn't take it.

if you don't vote, you offer no opinion. It doesn't mean you give your opinion to whichever side claims it.

......

The question wasn't 'do you support the Union?'. It was, at Salmond's behest 'should Scotland be an independent country?'

Anyone who wanted Scotland to be independent had to vote Yes. c 45% did so.

The remainder didn't."

Feel free to read my previous posts on this subject. I'm not disputing that. I'm disputing this whole 37% thing that people keep coming up with.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

The fact that only 37% voted Yes?

That's 100% true, no matter how uncomfortable it may be.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The fact that only 37% voted Yes?

That's 100% true, no matter how uncomfortable it may be."

This downward haggling is silly.

Its over for now. The 'No' camp won.

They got 55 - haggling it would be a blatant lie.

Just relax please 'No' camp...

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

If the 15% had been unhappy with the status quo, each of them had the opportunity to vote Yes.

The didn't take it.

if you don't vote, you offer no opinion. It doesn't mean you give your opinion to whichever side claims it.

......

The question wasn't 'do you support the Union?'. It was, at Salmond's behest 'should Scotland be an independent country?'

Anyone who wanted Scotland to be independent had to vote Yes. c 45% did so.

The remainder didn't."
not quite the case yes that was the question but I will never vote yes with a half baked proposal in my opinion and I want a free scotland but im not prepared to vote it in blind faith

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By *unglasgow69Man over a year ago

Glasgow

No haggling being done. A lot has been made by the yes voters since they lost that they had 1.6m voters 45% of the vote & they had "momentum" ahem such to speak & that irrelevant of the vote that Independence was going to happen.However this has to be challenged as they "momentum" they claim they have isn't quite as significant & the facts show this.Facts show 28 out of 32 regions said no. Facts show that out of a population of over 5million only 1.6m voted Yes. That means over 3.4m did not vote yes over double who voted yes. Fact remains yes only had 37% of the electoral vote voted yes that means 63% voted no or did not feel they wanted to vote yes. These are all facts. Simple maths will confirm the figures.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You may need to kola as Westminster will use every trick in the book and fight tooth n Nail to hold onto our money

As was shown

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

"You may need to kola as Westminster will use every trick in the book and fight tooth n Nail to hold onto our money

As was shown "
that I dont doubt that was never the question for me the question for me came down to do you trust this plan to become independant ...... I didnt with a better proposal and some hard proven facts it would have been yes the one positive to come out of this all partys will know with big decisions the people of scotland will be heard whichever way they voted

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

On the point of percentages it makes no diffrence about those who abstained the big point is it was a very close run thing 45% of those who voted is no small amount it shows that in the main the people of scotland aint happy with the leadership

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No haggling being done. A lot has been made by the yes voters since they lost that they had 1.6m voters 45% of the vote & they had "momentum" ahem such to speak & that irrelevant of the vote that Independence was going to happen.However this has to be challenged as they "momentum" they claim they have isn't quite as significant & the facts show this.Facts show 28 out of 32 regions said no. Facts show that out of a population of over 5million only 1.6m voted Yes. That means over 3.4m did not vote yes over double who voted yes. Fact remains yes only had 37% of the electoral vote voted yes that means 63% voted no or did not feel they wanted to vote yes. These are all facts. Simple maths will confirm the figures. "

Very patronizing and pedantic. If you want to be silly, you also forgot prisoners, expat Scots, the illiterate, illegal immigrants, travellers and the homeless.

It was 45% any statistical haggling is childish. IMHO

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You also forgot abstainers...

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By *aucy3Couple over a year ago

glasgow

Lol

Manipulation of figures,don't come much better.

so how many actually voted no, percentages wise.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"You also forgot abstainers..."

I'm sure there were tea totallers on both sides.

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By *unglasgow69Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Not manipulation facts. How many voted no a lot more than who voted yes end of the day that's the only real result that counts. U want to know percentages well u got a calculator on your phone why don't u figure that out for yourself. What is not manipulation is yes lost & they lost convincingly . But u keep telling urself u have "momentum" whilst the remainder of the 3.2m who didn't vote yes will sleep soundly knowing we are still in the Union.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You also forgot abstainers...

I'm sure there were tea totallers on both sides."

lol

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By *yrshiremischiefMan over a year ago

Kilmarnock

Almost wearing mittens to stop myself replying to the initial post here. Kind of taking issue with both these posts - somewhat reluctantly with the second one. Initial post mentions facts - but seeks to misrepresent them. A partial - and I do mean that in both senses of the word, account. Flawed beyond comprehension. Why mention regions when votes are credited nationally? Why mention a population count - and not the eligible voter count? Why not mention the % of eligible voters who voted No? Not so much simple maths as someone getting there sums wrong - or wanting the rest of us to.

The second poster is wrong - only in so much as manipulation of figures does come better - ask Tesco! PS - They got found out too...

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By *unglasgow69Man over a year ago

Glasgow

No misrepresentation at all Ayrshire. Merely pointing out that the yes voters who are having huge difficulty ( I think you might be one of them) are continually telling us that there voices will be heard & they can't be ignored & that independence will happen blah blah blah. Whilst demanding your voices must be heard so on that theory that means the voices of the no voters should be ignored & not heard .... Irony anyone???? Fact remains yes have lost quite convincingly & if you think 1.6m voters out of a nation of over 5m is grounds to convince us that your beloved yes movement is going to get independence anytime soon then I'm sorry ur mistaken .

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By *leasure domMan over a year ago

Edinburgh

Back in 1979, the disgustingly anti-democratic labour party counted the abstainers, the dead and the departed as votes against, so it is no wonder that their activists would continue to manipulate statistics to make an argument.

Statistical nonsense and deeply deceptive, of course, but that's labour for you. They just can't help themselves.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Which statistic has been 'manipulated'?

37% of the electorate voted Yes.

I resisted the temptation to say Only 37% of the electorate .............

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Which statistic has been 'manipulated'?

37% of the electorate voted Yes.

I resisted the temptation to say Only 37% of the electorate .............

Devil's advocate lol

So by the same statistic, only 45.83 % of the electorate voted "No".

Both of which are academic.

It was 45 and 55.

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By *unglasgow69Man over a year ago

Glasgow

No it is 37% to 63% as those who did not vote are not yes voters therefore if they are not supporting ur yes campaign they can't want change if they did they would have voted yes.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No it is 37% to 63% as those who did not vote are not yes voters therefore if they are not supporting ur yes campaign they can't want change if they did they would have voted yes. "

Rubbish. Its 45% to 55% as those who did not vote are not no voters either...

They just couldn't give a crap.

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By *yrshiremischiefMan over a year ago

Kilmarnock

"No misrepresentation at all Ayrshire. Merely pointing out that the yes voters who are having huge difficulty ( I think you might be one of them) are continually telling us that there voices will be heard & they can't be ignored & that independence will happen blah blah blah. Whilst demanding your voices must be heard so on that theory that means the voices of the no voters should be ignored & not heard .... Irony anyone???? Fact remains yes have lost quite convincingly & if you think 1.6m voters out of a nation of over 5m is grounds to convince us that your beloved yes movement is going to get independence anytime soon then I'm sorry ur mistaken ."

I am a man who can multi-task - I can speak and I can listen. ( I am also very mathematically minded and re-state my assertion that your supposed facts are partial and used to support an opinion rather than to analyse and understand a complex set of relationships.

I have no interest in depriving fellow Scots of their voices or of elevating some above others. The majority of votes cast were indeed in favour of No -and I respect that-Independence is after all premised on Scots being able to determine the circumstances of our own lives. No irony - or contradiction here.

It is both my hope and belief that Scotland will be independent in my lifetime - regardless, I will continue to value the contrary thoughts and positions of my ain folk - whilst pointing out their inexact grasp of mathematics and logic.

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By *yrshiremischiefMan over a year ago

Kilmarnock

[Removed by poster at 14/10/14 23:51:33]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No it is 37% to 63% as those who did not vote are not yes voters therefore if they are not supporting ur yes campaign they can't want change if they did they would have voted yes. "

What's 85% of 55% ?

Do yourself a favour and get an adult to help you with this.

I also agree with the results of the referendum. Although I don't believe that this is the end and the support for SNP has been really impressive for them and their supporters. I myself won't join the SNP though, I'm quite disillusioned with politics and don't think we have any REAL candidates at the minute.

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By *yrshiremischiefMan over a year ago

Kilmarnock

"Which statistic has been 'manipulated'?

37% of the electorate voted Yes.

I resisted the temptation to say Only 37% of the electorate .............

Omission is as great as commission - What % voted No? Was it overwhelming? Is it insurmountable? Have political parties affiliated with No had any kind of post-referendum bounce or led to any increase in community engagement?

Gifting you the opportunity to say No again!

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By *unglasgow69Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Ayrshire my grasp of facts n figure are absolutely fine. Fact remains only 37% voted yes which was never going to be good enough. I'm glad I managed to draw u into the debate & I'm delighted to have debated with so many losers sorry errrrr yes voters tonight. Very gracious of you to accept a democratic vote Shame so many others yes voters can't be as gracious. Been good chat. I look forward to another round of debating another night.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Let's just sort this out now. Let's stop the fighting. Let's respect each other's right to have an opinion even though we may not share it. Let's not belittle someone else for what they believe or want for their future

The only way to do that ...

Put me in charge

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The only way to do that ...

Put me in charge

We should have a vote on that ...... maybe ?

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By *unglasgow69Man over a year ago

Glasgow

OralMarathon my maths is fine. Yip I get ur 85% however you cannot ignore those who did not vote they are still part of the nation. The yes sides failure to convince them to vote means that no vote for yes from them becomes a no vote as they are happy with the status quo. Only 37% voted yes simply not good enough

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The only way to do that ...

Put me in charge

We should have a vote on that ...... maybe ?"

Did I forget to mention I'm a dictator.. No vote .. Sorreee

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The only way to do that ...

Put me in charge

We should have a vote on that ...... maybe ?

Did I forget to mention I'm a dictator.. No vote .. Sorreee

Youre not a very good dictator if you need to mention it to people.

How do we get imprisoned in this dick-tatorship ?

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By *yrshiremischiefMan over a year ago

Kilmarnock

[Removed by poster at 15/10/14 00:06:16]

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By *yrshiremischiefMan over a year ago

Kilmarnock

"Let's just sort this out now. Let's stop the fighting. Let's respect each other's right to have an opinion even though we may not share it. Let's not belittle someone else for what they believe or want for their future

The only way to do that ...

Put me in charge

Having considered your proposal - and cleavage - mainly cleavage - I'm okay with your suggestion.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm giving peeps the opportunity to flee before I dish out flip flop beatings.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

One word ! FUD

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm giving peeps the opportunity to flee before I dish out flip flop beatings.

you just want Obama to invade you.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A sexy leader would rock!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A sexy leader would rock!"

If we ever had a PM with tits like NonBlonde's, I'd watch BBC Parliament every single hour.

If that channel doesn't exist anymore then they better start bringing it back.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Id like a BBC Parliament,

and a BBW House of Lords.

Change is coming, praise the lord!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"When does a no mean yes? To the "activist" of the yes campaign obviously.

We had a vote and "the people of Scotland" (as fish face and the bride of chucky ) would say said NO

I seems that some people can't handle democracy and is the bottom line.

totally agree....some seem to be struggling to accept the outcome of a democratic process. And continue to fuel bitterness and division. Unpleasant to see.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Im confused now after reading all the facts and stats are the 45 bunch still the 45 bunch?

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By *aucy3Couple over a year ago

glasgow

"Which statistic has been 'manipulated'?

37% of the electorate voted Yes.

I resisted the temptation to say Only 37% of the electorate .............

Devil's advocate lol

So by the same statistic, only 45.83 % of the electorate voted "No".

Both of which are academic.

It was 45 and 55.

Thank you.

Hmmmmmmm so less than half the population voted no.

So by default,we've thrown off the shackles of Westminster,

And we're free at last.

I would likely sound happier,

and be a wee bit more enthusiastic,

Over our new found freeeeeeeedom,

Had I voted yes.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"When does a no mean yes? To the "activist" of the yes campaign obviously.

We had a vote and "the people of Scotland" (as fish face and the bride of chucky ) would say said NO

I seems that some people can't handle democracy and is the bottom line.

totally agree....some seem to be struggling to accept the outcome of a democratic process. And continue to fuel bitterness and division. Unpleasant to see."

who hasn't accepted the outcome? Just because a large group of Yes voters want to build on the momentum from the Yes campaign, that doesn't mean they haven't accepted it. Not accepting democratic process means the Yes camp would have taken power through force or they would urge riots, political unrest and maybe boycott trade in certain parts.

Democracy doesn't always guarentee the correct outcome.

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By *ustcutieWoman over a year ago

edinburgh

"When does a no mean yes? To the "activist" of the yes campaign obviously.

We had a vote and "the people of Scotland" (as fish face and the bride of chucky ) would say said NO

I seems that some people can't handle democracy and is the bottom line.

totally agree....some seem to be struggling to accept the outcome of a democratic process. And continue to fuel bitterness and division. Unpleasant to see.

Democracy doesn't always guarentee the correct outcome."

Correct in whose opinion ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"When does a no mean yes? To the "activist" of the yes campaign obviously.

We had a vote and "the people of Scotland" (as fish face and the bride of chucky ) would say said NO

I seems that some people can't handle democracy and is the bottom line.

totally agree....some seem to be struggling to accept the outcome of a democratic process. And continue to fuel bitterness and division. Unpleasant to see.

Democracy doesn't always guarentee the correct outcome."

'democracy doesn't always guarentee' [sic] the correct outcome? Wow! I guess we should keep holding costly referenda until the outcome is 'correct' as adjudicated by yourself.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"When does a no mean yes? To the "activist" of the yes campaign obviously.

We had a vote and "the people of Scotland" (as fish face and the bride of chucky ) would say said NO

I seems that some people can't handle democracy and is the bottom line.

totally agree....some seem to be struggling to accept the outcome of a democratic process. And continue to fuel bitterness and division. Unpleasant to see.

Democracy doesn't always guarentee the correct outcome.

'democracy doesn't always guarentee' [sic] the correct outcome? Wow! I guess we should keep holding costly referenda until the outcome is 'correct' as adjudicated by yourself.

there will be another referendum, maybe by 2025. By that time, Scotland could have more control over its affairs and it would be a more decisive outcome. Or it could swing completely to a yes vote.

Democracy only works when the people are represented equally. Scotland is NOT represented equally. Hitler got elected democratically so you have to accept that democracy does have flaws. Especially when our political system is so heavily influenced by media.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Cameron not even turning up at the debate in the house of commons today.

As the leading force behind the union its quite sickening but not unexpected. "

He didn't debate the issues with Wee Eck...if he had been at the debate he would have copped a bucketing for being a gloater. Can't win either way.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

And if democracy doesn't suit, you can always have a coronation.

Welcome Queen Nicola.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"And if democracy doesn't suit, you can always have a coronation.

Welcome Queen Nicola."

I think you meant monarchy and we already have 1 of those.

Since monarchs no longer interfere in politics, that seems a bit silly. Nothing new there.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Least Nicola was voted in

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

good luck to her, it is good to see women reach the top in politics

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

"When does a no mean yes? To the "activist" of the yes campaign obviously.

We had a vote and "the people of Scotland" (as fish face and the bride of chucky ) would say said NO

I seems that some people can't handle democracy and is the bottom line.

totally agree....some seem to be struggling to accept the outcome of a democratic process. And continue to fuel bitterness and division. Unpleasant to see.

Democracy doesn't always guarentee the correct outcome.

'democracy doesn't always guarentee' [sic] the correct outcome? Wow! I guess we should keep holding costly referenda until the outcome is 'correct' as adjudicated by yourself.

there will be another referendum, maybe by 2025. By that time, Scotland could have more control over its affairs and it would be a more decisive outcome. Or it could swing completely to a yes vote.

"
sorry but hitler was democratically ie the people voted him into power just because he was nuts dosnt mean he wasnt democratically appointed as for representation equally of course we were the entire population of eligible scots had the right to vote and a result was found

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

sorry but hitler was democratically ie the people voted him into power just because he was nuts dosnt mean he wasnt democratically appointed as for representation equally of course we were the entire population of eligible scots had the right to vote and a result was found "

Hitler was democratically elected, that was my point. I don't know if you were disputing that or agreeing.

Political representation isn't just about votes you know. It's about people having choices and being represented fairly by those who are elected. Is giving multinational companies a tax cut despite having thousands upon thousands of Scottish families in poverty actually fair?

If you think so, then good luck with that.

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

Hitler was democratically elected, that was my point. I don't know if you were disputing that or agreeing.

If you think so, then good luck with that.

"
the point I was making is it makes no odds if he was the nut in the fruit cake the people democrattically elected him from high society to workhouse paupergoes hand in hand with equal representation all people are given the oppwrrunity to vote whether the silver spoon is in their mouth or not the main problem is all politicians lie and say they will do this that or the other it was everyones choice to put their faith in this set of lies or the others

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"good luck to her, it is good to see women reach the top in politics"

Suggesting that becoming leader of the SNP is 'reaching the top in politics' is stretching credibility more than a bit.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"good luck to her, it is good to see women reach the top in politics

Suggesting that becoming leader of the SNP is 'reaching the top in politics' is stretching credibility more than a bit."

you are better than that, to lead a party is significant and be the first minister.

good luck to her

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"good luck to her, it is good to see women reach the top in politics

Suggesting that becoming leader of the SNP is 'reaching the top in politics' is stretching credibility more than a bit.

you are better than that, to lead a party is significant and be the first minister.

good luck to her"
exactly _iew x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I was a yes voter

It saddens me the amount if hate and childish comments that's getting banded about makes us no better than the MPs

I'm still totally gutted about the outcome

Gutted we lost and yes we did lose

Yes the campaign was lost but please do not expect yes voter just to get over it? It's not gonna happen

I'm 41 and if it takes me until I'm 91 il still be fighting for an independent Scotland

Education is the key iv made my 3 kids watch the whole thing and hope n pray they will remember all the broken promises that were made when it's time for them to vote

Auds x "

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By *unglasgow69Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Omg OralMarathon your insane ramblings are really getting bad now.

So hang on let me get this right the yes campaign only lost according to you because the media wouldn't comply & totally back a yes campaign?!!!!

So because of that it makes our democratic vote when the majority of Scots said No this now equates it to fascism in your eyes. Really!!!! Seriously!!!! You are trying to compare the yes voters loss to that fascism even by your standards OralMarathin that is a belter hahahaha.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Which statistic has been 'manipulated'?

37% of the electorate voted Yes.

I resisted the temptation to say Only 37% of the electorate .............

Devil's advocate lol

So by the same statistic, only 45.83 % of the electorate voted "No".

Both of which are academic.

It was 45 and 55.

Thank you.

Hmmmmmmm so less than half the population voted no.

So by default,we've thrown off the shackles of Westminster,

And we're free at last.

I would likely sound happier,

and be a wee bit more enthusiastic,

Over our new found freeeeeeeedom,

Had I voted yes.

You've totally confused me, with your bogus statistics and the u-turning. It was 45 and 55. The no's one, but some of you just hate the yes voters with a vengeance. Just let it go... Drop the hate...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"good luck to her, it is good to see women reach the top in politics

Suggesting that becoming leader of the SNP is 'reaching the top in politics' is stretching credibility more than a bit.

you are better than that, to lead a party is significant and be the first minister.

good luck to her"

well said

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"good luck to her, it is good to see women reach the top in politics

Suggesting that becoming leader of the SNP is 'reaching the top in politics' is stretching credibility more than a bit.

you are better than that, to lead a party is significant and be the first minister.

good luck to her

well said

She must be the only party leader to celebrate her coronation by running a Defeat Tour of Scotland 2014.

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