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Vote Yes Part II - The Other filled up

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By *MD47 OP Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Just putting up another thread as Vote Yes PTI filled up.

Ok lets continue the debate....

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

it's still a No

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By *unknSoulCouple over a year ago

dumfries-ish

We will all be kicking ourselves in a years time after a general election . All the promises will be forgotten and business as normal.

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By *MD47 OP Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"We will all be kicking ourselves in a years time after a general election . All the promises will be forgotten and business as normal."

What is being offered is not promises but changes in the law. It will be a legal requirement and be part of the devolved powers. We already have a lot of devolved powers.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I honestly thought this site would be a safe haven away from the referendum debate,obviously not,the campaigning has gotten beyond a joke now,allow people to have their own opinions

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I do think it's going to be interesting to see what happens afterwards whatever way it goes.

Because either way a large proportion of the population are going to stuck in a country they don't want or no longer want to be a part of.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Just seen one of the most persuasive reasons to vote yes.

Piers Morgan has promised to go back to the USA if theres a yes vote

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By *unknSoulCouple over a year ago

dumfries-ish

"We will all be kicking ourselves in a years time after a general election . All the promises will be forgotten and business as normal.

What is being offered is not promises but changes in the law. It will be a legal requirement and be part of the devolved powers. We already have a lot of devolved powers."

Promises of changes in the law which none of the English party leaders can agree on.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"Just seen one of the most persuasive reasons to vote yes.

Piers Morgan has promised to go back to the USA if theres a yes vote

Not quite

“Dear People of Scotland,” his post read, “if you vote NO, I promise to go straight back to America. #indyref”

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By *MD47 OP Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"We will all be kicking ourselves in a years time after a general election . All the promises will be forgotten and business as normal.

What is being offered is not promises but changes in the law. It will be a legal requirement and be part of the devolved powers. We already have a lot of devolved powers.

Promises of changes in the law which none of the English party leaders can agree on."

English party leaders? You mean the leaders of the UK Parties? Yet again pushing the anti-English sentiment.

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By *unknSoulCouple over a year ago

dumfries-ish

"We will all be kicking ourselves in a years time after a general election . All the promises will be forgotten and business as normal.

What is being offered is not promises but changes in the law. It will be a legal requirement and be part of the devolved powers. We already have a lot of devolved powers.

Promises of changes in the law which noneEnglish party leaders can agree on.

English party leaders? You mean the leaders of the UK Parties? Yet again pushing the anti-English

sentiment."

No.no. I think you will find they are English. As for anti English I must hate myself being English.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A few reasons why we will be voting yes

Total control over our tax's.

A government that is not ran by born rich poeple.

Get nukes out of our country.

End going to war and bombing children in their homes.

To end foodbanks.

To see our prime minister and feel at least some connection to them.

To show the world and the BBC that we are more that capable of prospering.

And finally so I can look at my children and not feel I have left them to suffer anymore of Westminster's corrupt selfish governments that will put them last place in their concern's.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No.no. I think you will find they are English. As for anti English I must hate myself being English."

Lol

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

Im lost how exactly are they english partys im sure if independance is pushed through will be pretty much the same folk just diffrent named partys still be your eton sh**stains and money folk dictating what is best for the country only way to fix it now anarchy n start from the begining and nope that aint whats on offer pmal

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By *lba couple1Couple over a year ago

glasgow

No matter yes or no , I will never want to leave my country, I love Scotland , I'm not telling what I'm voting , not anti English, not anti gay not anti smoking, but if people want to put this on forums it's there choice, if you don't want involved don't click on it xxxx

Just my opinion

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Just seen one of the most persuasive reasons to vote yes.

Piers Morgan has promised to go back to the USA if theres a yes vote

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We will all be kicking ourselves in a years time after a general election . All the promises will be forgotten and business as normal.

What is being offered is not promises but changes in the law. It will be a legal requirement and be part of the devolved powers. We already have a lot of devolved powers."

Are you for real? Theres actually a video floating around online where William Hague clearly states, in the House of Commons, that these promises aren't actual party policy but are just the same as the promises that are made during general election campaigns. Promises, I may add, that are very rarely kept once they've got your vote. It's a massive yes from us!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

being an english man and living in England I hope its a yes.

Lets get rid of your moaning and costs, what do you think this referendam has cost us, let the uk get back to normal, where the voting laws , are what they have always been 18.

If its a no we will have all this bollocks again in a few years

just piss off and leave us alone.

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By *andemanMan over a year ago

bedforshire

"I honestly thought this site would be a safe haven away from the referendum debate,obviously not,the campaigning has gotten beyond a joke now,allow people to have their own opinions"

No problem about having own opinions that's cool. But u have to ask if you want to avoid any further debate why are you in a referendum chat thread? Just asking.

oh and I am still a no.

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By *andemanMan over a year ago

bedforshire

"Just seen one of the most persuasive reasons to vote yes.

Piers Morgan has promised to go back to the USA if theres a yes vote

Surely we can deport him without going so far as to mess up our country?

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By *hybutnaughtyoneWoman over a year ago

Glasgow

[Removed by poster at 14/09/14 19:08:34]

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By *hybutnaughtyoneWoman over a year ago

Glasgow

"A few reasons why we will be voting yes

Total control over our tax's.

A government that is not ran by born rich poeple.

Get nukes out of our country.

End going to war and bombing children in their homes.

To end foodbanks.

To see our prime minister and feel at least some connection to them.

To show the world and the BBC that we are more that capable of prospering.

And finally so I can look at my children and not feel I have left them to suffer anymore of Westminster's corrupt selfish governments that will put them last place in their concern's.

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

"being an english man and living in England I hope its a yes.

Lets get rid of your moaning and costs, what do you think this referendam has cost us, let the uk get back to normal, where the voting laws , are what they have always been 18.

If its a no we will have all this bollocks again in a few years

just piss off and leave us alone. "
lol this one I like

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

and thats why........we want you gone

leave the uk alone

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"and thats why........we want you gone

leave the uk alone"

well that's 2 of you

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By *andemanMan over a year ago

bedforshire

"A few reasons why we will be voting yes

Total control over our tax's. Devo max will give most of that.

A government that is not ran by born rich poeple. Born or no rich they will be in an SNP goverment.

Get nukes out of our country. If they move them to Liverpool or Newcastle and they get bombed the radiation will not wait at the border for visa control.

End going to war and bombing children in their homes. We may not be going but we will have surrendered any say in stopping the UK from doing it. The kids will still die and we will have abandoned them to that fait.

To end food banks. I hope we do but you can not garentee that and if the economy goes tits up it will get worse not better.

To see our prime minister and feel at least some connection to them. I have never felt connected to any of them even the Scotish ones. The last two Scotish ones were shocking and I am a left winger.

To show the world and the BBC that we are more that capable of prospering. Again you don't need a tartan tory goverment to prove that we can do that now.

And finally so I can look at my children and not feel I have left them to suffer anymore of Westminster's corrupt selfish governments that will put them last place in their concern's. I am sorry does not matter what nationality a politician Is you know they are lieing when their mouth moves.

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By *andemanMan over a year ago

bedforshire

"being an english man and living in England I hope its a yes.

Lets get rid of your moaning and costs, what do you think this referendam has cost us, let the uk get back to normal, where the voting laws , are what they have always been 18.

If its a no we will have all this bollocks again in a few years

just piss off and leave us alone. "

I am a Scot and I live in London I care about my country Scotland and My nation uk. If you do not than get your Ass out of the lot!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

the Scots think it them and the English, the UK also has the welsh and Irish, we are all paying for your tantrums

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Think that's the other way round, Scotland is not a country yet and is In fact a nation and the country is UK.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"the Scots think it them and the English, the UK also has the welsh and Irish, we are all paying for your tantrums"

Was just away to type that and the majority of scots are not anti English, welsh or Northern Irish.

If Scotlands such a waste of time why do we have the Westminster parties tripping over them selves to keep Scotland part of the union??

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

well hopefully it will be yes, and you will be gone, and we want have to put up with your bollocks and winging any more.

ps that means you want be in the uk

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

"being an english man and living in England I hope its a yes.

Lets get rid of your moaning and costs, what do you think this referendam has cost us, let the uk get back to normal, where the voting laws , are what they have always been 18.

If its a no we will have all this bollocks again in a few years

just piss off and leave us alone. "

not according to Mr Salmond....second referendum ruled out

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

"well hopefully it will be yes, and you will be gone, and we want have to put up with your bollocks and winging any more.

ps that means you want be in the uk "

why are you being so vile?

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By *oxy_minxWoman over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

"well hopefully it will be yes, and you will be gone, and we want have to put up with your bollocks and winging any more.

ps that means you want be in the uk

why are you being so vile?"

I was wondering that myself TBH

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

"well hopefully it will be yes, and you will be gone, and we want have to put up with your bollocks and winging any more.

ps that means you want be in the uk "
to be honest I dont think you get just how much scotland leaving the uk will hurt it take away the revenue stream generated by scotland as has been said what scotland pays in and takes out is very diffrent the uk will have to pay for everything it is now with considerably less income for my money we are stronger together ........for now

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"well hopefully it will be yes, and you will be gone, and we want have to put up with your bollocks and winging any more.

ps that means you want be in the uk "

Tell your begging MPs up begging for the scottish to stay to fuck off then

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"well hopefully it will be yes, and you will be gone, and we want have to put up with your bollocks and winging any more.

ps that means you want be in the uk "

Tell your begging MPs up begging for the scottish to stay to fuck off then

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By *MD47 OP Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"well hopefully it will be yes, and you will be gone, and we want have to put up with your bollocks and winging any more.

ps that means you want be in the uk "

winging? this is a debate/discussion. The same can be said the other way around as well.

If we cannot debate then what hope is there for a Scotland if there is a YES vote as it seems that some people voting YES want to stamp out debate/discussion. This is democracy not a dictatorship.

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By *MD47 OP Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"being an english man and living in England I hope its a yes.

Lets get rid of your moaning and costs, what do you think this referendam has cost us, let the uk get back to normal, where the voting laws , are what they have always been 18.

If its a no we will have all this bollocks again in a few years

just piss off and leave us alone.

not according to Mr Salmond....second referendum ruled out"

He may have ruled it out but it is not upto him. Its upto the people to ask the politicians to push for another one. Salmond cannot make that call he is NOT the King of Scotland.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Have you looked at where that quote about whinging came from lol

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By *MD47 OP Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"well hopefully it will be yes, and you will be gone, and we want have to put up with your bollocks and winging any more.

ps that means you want be in the uk

Tell your begging MPs up begging for the scottish to stay to fuck off then "

Please dont lower the tone of this discussion/debate. There is no need for this at all.

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By *oxy_minxWoman over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

not according to Mr Salmond....second referendum ruled out

He may have ruled it out but it is not upto him. Its upto the people to ask the politicians to push for another one. Salmond cannot make that call he is NOT the King of Scotland. "

Are you sure he doesn't see himself as just that

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"being an english man and living in England I hope its a yes.

Lets get rid of your moaning and costs, what do you think this referendam has cost us, let the uk get back to normal, where the voting laws , are what they have always been 18.

If its a no we will have all this bollocks again in a few years

just piss off and leave us alone.

not according to Mr Salmond....second referendum ruled out

He may have ruled it out but it is not upto him. Its upto the people to ask the politicians to push for another one. Salmond cannot make that call he is NOT the King of Scotland. "

And it would the UK govt to agree. I don't see that happening.

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By *MD47 OP Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"the Scots think it them and the English, the UK also has the welsh and Irish, we are all paying for your tantrums"

You are mistaken if you think that its only Scottish people voting. Its anyone that is living in Scotland who meets the voting regulations. This means many people from various countries. Please take your vile racist comments somewhere else.

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By *MD47 OP Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"Have you looked at where that quote about whinging came from lol "

Yes but I dont like the abuse and racist undertone from both sides. No need for it ....

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By *andACouple over a year ago

glasgow

"well hopefully it will be yes, and you will be gone, and we want have to put up with your bollocks and winging any more.

ps that means you want be in the uk

why are you being so vile?"

Being online allows some people to show their true character without the normal social niceties that apply when speaking to someone in person. So I'd say it's just their character to be honest.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"He may have ruled it out but it is not upto him. Its upto the people to ask the politicians to push for another one. Salmond cannot make that call he is NOT the King of Scotland. "

Your right he's not but if it's NO on Thursday, I can't see us getting another chance because all your going to get from Westminster is there's no reason it would be different the people of Scotland have chosen the Union. So why would they do it all again?

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By *rsKandMrJCouple over a year ago

West Dunbartonshire ish

"it's still a No

Still no here too

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By *b430Man over a year ago

Tayside

"the Scots think it them and the English, the UK also has the welsh and Irish, we are all paying for your tantrums

"Racist comments" ?

They didn't say anything racist in the post you quoted, you may be seeing things in some posts that aren't actually there!

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

I must say I have enjoyed reading the debate today

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

but it is still a No

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By *oxy_minxWoman over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

"but it is still a No

My vote has already been cast

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"but it is still a No

My vote has already been cast

I will be there first thing

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think there is one side that would like to put anti English slant on things and if it's not there make it up.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"I think there is one side that would like to put anti English slant on things and if it's not there make it up."

don't be so down on yourself

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"He may have ruled it out but it is not upto him. Its upto the people to ask the politicians to push for another one. Salmond cannot make that call he is NOT the King of Scotland.

They (the Nats) would hope people get fed up and give in - against their better judgement.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think there is one side that would like to put anti English slant on things and if it's not there make it up.

don't be so down on yourself

Go into the lounge and have a little look in there plenty of it going round.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Just seen one of the most persuasive reasons to vote yes.

Piers Morgan has promised to go back to the USA if theres a yes vote

Not quite

“Dear People of Scotland,” his post read, “if you vote NO, I promise to go straight back to America. #indyref”

cheers _nny, imagine if i had tried quoting Robert Peston

theres a lesson, check these things for yourself, dont rely on what other people tell you

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By *oxy_minxWoman over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

"Just seen one of the most persuasive reasons to vote yes.

Piers Morgan has promised to go back to the USA if theres a yes vote

Not quite

“Dear People of Scotland,” his post read, “if you vote NO, I promise to go straight back to America. #indyref”

cheers _nny, imagine if i had tried quoting Robert Peston

theres a lesson, check these things for yourself, dont rely on what other people tell you

Now that's just showing too much common sense! I just hope others have done their own research and not voting on their bravehearts

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By *ifes journeyCouple over a year ago

scotland

"A few reasons why we will be voting yes

Total control over our tax's.

++Maybe. Will there be that much a change? Any governemnt still needs an income. What you gain in one hand, the other will lose++

A government that is not ran by born rich poeple.

++You mean, a Government that is not run by born rich people in Westminster but instead run by a Government of rich people born in Scotland?++

Get nukes out of our country.

++So they can start to extract the oil in the Clyde? Alt motive I would say++

End going to war and bombing children in their homes.

++Do you think that will automatically stop Scotland been a target for terrorism? Most of the anti terrorism in this country is carried out by the Metropolitan Police and MI5/6. What do Scotland have as an alternative?++

To end foodbanks.

++Foodbanks have existed for years and do so in all countries in some shape of form. Why do you think an independant Scotland would be different? The SNP's model of a country, Norway has foodbanks++

To see our prime minister and feel at least some connection to them.

++Refer to above about all been rich snobs with no idea of how its like to live on a normal wage++

To show the world and the BBC that we are more that capable of prospering.

++So you only want independence to show a middle finger to others?++

And finally so I can look at my children and not feel I have left them to suffer anymore of Westminster's corrupt selfish governments that will put them last place in their concern's.

++As above, Scottish MP's have been shown to be equally as corrupt... enough of them fiddled their expenses along with the rest++

See My comments between the ++'s

I just don't see its the right time to be going independent.

Were not yet out the woods from the mess that the whole of Europe has been in, we need to be in a better state IMO.

Would seem that when other countries have made the move, the vast majority agreed it was the right time. At the moment its pretty much a 50/50 split. Half a nation are going to be majorly disappointed whatever happens on Thursday. Is that the country we want to live in?

If you had a family of 10 people and had a choice of moving house, 5 said yes and 5 said no and it came down to a coin toss.... wouldn't you feel slightly guilty of forcing something on the other 5 that they didn't want? Now if 9 said yes and 1 said no..... different story?

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By *UNKIEMan over a year ago

south east

the House of Lords’ report states categorically that any further powers for Scotland should be subject to a UK -wide constitutional process, including the possibility of a UK-wide referendum. This means that the massive pool of MPs representing London and the South East, who benefit most from the union, effectively get a veto on whether or not to reform it.

A quote from business for scotland and also reiterated in the commons this week during pm's quetions with william hague.....gordon brown can come up with whatever he wants but dont be surprised if we get absolutely heehaw....so i'll definately be voting YES

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By *rof SalamanderMan over a year ago

glasgow

Salmond cant afford to meet pledges he is making. Also when anyone disagrees with him they are wrong or scaremongers...... NO THANKS

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

After the abuse I've just had from yes supporters... I've never been more certain of my vote. Absolutely appalling and I genuinely fear for an independent Scotland if that's the type of people having a say on my and my family's future. #voteno

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I was in Glasgow this weekend and it was a party atmosphere! Except for the UKIP animal that had kicked the pregnant woman and was still out campaigning and being very aggressive, it was at least 90% yes! Of course it looked the other way round on the BBC! But I'm getting very excited. We are going to be. Like the rest of the country and become a country that governs itself!

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

"I was in Glasgow this weekend and it was a party atmosphere! Except for the UKIP animal that had kicked the pregnant woman and was still out campaigning and being very aggressive, it was at least 90% yes! Of course it looked the other way round on the BBC! But I'm getting very excited. We are going to be. Like the rest of the country and become a country that governs it selfish! "
slow down getting a little ahead of yourself statements like we are going to become a country that governs itself has a way of biting the speaker in the ass

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By *MD47 OP Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"After the abuse I've just had from yes supporters... I've never been more certain of my vote. Absolutely appalling and I genuinely fear for an independent Scotland if that's the type of people having a say on my and my family's future. #voteno"

Oh dear your not allowed to say that you have been intimidated by YES people. Remember its there way or no way at all. I know people how are scared to put a NO sticker on thier car as their mates got keyed. Others have have been called names as people see the NO badge.

The bitterness this has caused will not go away.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The bitterness this has caused will not go away."

It's disgusting if I'm honest. Apparently because you choose to keep your reasons to yourself you know nothing and haven't done your research. I don't want to stand up and be proud of my decision... Blah blah blah. I just prefer to keep it to myself, it's a personal reason, I don't feel the need to bark on about it every day. It's horrible, I actually feel like I'm back at school..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Some of the campaigning on the streets has become truly ridiculous witnessed a confused bank customer ask at a local branch was it true if he voted yes all the banks would move south and he wouldn't be able to come to a bank or use a cshline the poor guy was genuinely concerned he wouldn't have access to his money. The girl in the bank very politely explained the head offices may move that was all. The confused customer said no the guy outside was saying different. Being nosey I went for a look f*ck me the guy was right this clown claiming to be from the better together campaign was telling people there would be no banks left in Scotland !

Things like that annoy me pure and utter lies yet how many people heard that clown ?

To be clear personally am now undecided and I am not saying similar things haven'thappened on the yes campaign but. Sadly think the whole thing has become a fares at times if it wasn't so serious it would be funny

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By *ifes journeyCouple over a year ago

scotland

"Some of the campaigning on the streets has become truly ridiculous witnessed a confused bank customer ask at a local branch was it true if he voted yes all the banks would move south and he wouldn't be able to come to a bank or use a cshline the poor guy was genuinely concerned he wouldn't have access to his money. The girl in the bank very politely explained the head offices may move that was all. The confused customer said no the guy outside was saying different. Being nosey I went for a look f*ck me the guy was right this clown claiming to be from the better together campaign was telling people there would be no banks left in Scotland !

Things like that annoy me pure and utter lies yet how many people heard that clown ?

Think these type of stories are happening on both sides and are awful to hear.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yeah sorry wasn't implying it only happens on one side right now think they are all as bad as each other.

Can see why the vast majority are totally put off politics tbh

Can only hope a decent turn out this time so that at least the majority have had their say I do worry about the after effects tho so bitter the campaigning has become makes both messages of unity a joke

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By *kooter75Man over a year ago

Dalkeith

"well hopefully it will be yes, and you will be gone, and we want have to put up with your bollocks and winging any more.

ps that means you want be in the uk

why are you being so vile?

I was wondering that myself TBH

I'll be very polite.

Because he's incredibly ignorant and has an unwavering belief that neither the scots, welsh or Irish have ever contributed anything to the United Kingdom of England. It was all them don't you know. Everything.

Mustn't get drawn into this. Lol.

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By *kooter75Man over a year ago

Dalkeith

"being an english man and living in England I hope its a yes.

Lets get rid of your moaning and costs, what do you think this referendam has cost us, let the uk get back to normal, where the voting laws , are what they have always been 18.

If its a no we will have all this bollocks again in a few years

just piss off and leave us alone. "

An English man living in England. Who'd have thought.

Easy to hide behind a keyboard. Me thinks you'll lack courage in your conviction.

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By *kooter75Man over a year ago

Dalkeith

I've long said the solution to the referendum is not independence. The solution is to shut Westminster and run the whole show from up here.

Can you hear them all squirming in their seats at the merest suggestion of such a thing.

Besides, the crown is more Scottish than English as well thanks to James VI. Of course, it's more German than either of us. Lol.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" Are you for real? Theres actually a video floating around online where William Hague clearly states, in the House of Commons, that these promises aren't actual party policy but are just the same as the promises that are made during general election campaigns. Promises, I may add, that are very rarely kept once they've got

your vote. It's a massive yes from us!"

Just like more powers for Scotland was Thatcher's policy in '79 you mean? And we can all trust William Hague, can't we? He's the only politician who' s never told a lie, after all. Oh, wait...

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By *kooter75Man over a year ago

Dalkeith

Spot on.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

your vote. It's a massive yes from us!

Just like more powers for Scotland was Thatcher's policy in '79 you mean? And we can all trust William Hague, can't we? He's the only politician who' s never told a lie, after all. Oh, wait... "

Don't forget it was the SNP who brought Thatcher to power.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

All devolved powers are the gift of Westminster and can be removed, as recently proven, at their whim.

It is likely that Boris will be the Tories' next leader. His stated position is that Scotland needs no more powers. But why would those naysayers who claim to agree that we should have more powers accept a proffer of a commission to discuss whether or not they might give us some powers over taking them all?

"Not the right time"? When will it be? Once the oil is all gone? Once the UK debt has gotten so large that even our share of it can never be paid off? And that silly house-buying analogy; you state that it is unfair for those who want to move to continue to wish to do so in a 50/50 split? So, they just have to abandon their aspirations? Give up in the vague hope that someday total perfection, risk-free and buckshee might appear on the horizon? How is that any fairer than going ahead with the move? Not that a tie is possible in this vote anyway, so it's a moot point.

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By *andemanMan over a year ago

bedforshire

your vote. It's a massive yes from us!

Just like more powers for Scotland was Thatcher's policy in '79 you mean? And we can all trust William Hague, can't we? He's the only politician who' s never told a lie, after all. Oh, wait...

Don't forget it was the SNP who brought Thatcher to power."

When do you know a politician Is lying? When his mouth moves!

Leppard spots SNP = tartan tory.

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By *ir laugh a lotMan over a year ago

glasgow

in the event of a no vote how many are aware of what happened in 1979 Scotland was promised this and that and the next thing and then English mps in the commons said no chance and blocked them.. brown promises noo he gtees these extra powers well sad to say same thing can and no doubt will happen again ,I have engaged in all the tv and media coverage including social network and yesterday I was chatting to three friends who were quite adamant they were voting no , I asked each of them what makes you think that's the better option and to my surprise they all not even within earshot of each other said because ,I said because what and the only answer I was given was just because to me and this is only my opinion I think you need a better reason to vote no or yes rather than just because and this morning I decided to troll the web for an answer to something I was wondering and it was confirmed if a no vote were to be the result nothing and I mean not a thing can or could prevent the English government from scrapping holyrood and our current Scottish parliament if it decided to do so.,,they have the power to rescind the royal charter given to set up holyrood...so a yes vote we make our own mistakes and eventually in 50 years from now it will come together but a no vote they make more mistakes on our behalf and in another 300 years it still wont bring us together we will still have foodbanks and familys worse off than ever before and the southern heartlands will be a rich mans playground ,,even more than it is now,,,so ,with respect to everyone ,vote as you see fit but all I ask you in going to vote is to consider ,,this , nothing in an independent Scotland will change for at least 4 or 5 years and by that time you will be 4 or 5 years older and after Thursday a great deal wiser

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

Perhaps your freinds said ..... because as they knew you were a yes and are sick and tired of hearing the yes campaign nonsense (in their eyes) no one has to explain their reasons but I agree vote for a reason and not because of pipedreams promised

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A few reasons why we will be voting yes

Total control over our tax's.

A government that is not ran by born rich poeple.

Get nukes out of our country.

End going to war and bombing children in their homes.

To end foodbanks.

To see our prime minister and feel at least some connection to them.

To show the world and the BBC that we are more that capable of prospering.

And finally so I can look at my children and not feel I have left them to suffer anymore of Westminster's corrupt selfish governments that will put them last place in their concern's.

Jesus, how do you make it through every day without lashing out at someone? If you feel that strongly and have felt that way throughout your entire life, why do you still live in such a terrible country?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"being an english man and living in England I hope its a yes.

Lets get rid of your moaning and costs, what do you think this referendam has cost us, let the uk get back to normal, where the voting laws , are what they have always been 18.

If its a no we will have all this bollocks again in a few years

just piss off and leave us alone. "

No need for attitude like that. I think the 'moans' as you put it are debating the issues and given the magnitude of the decision the Scots face, completely necessary.

I have Scottish and English blood in my veins and I hope it's a no.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

your vote. It's a massive yes from us!

Just like more powers for Scotland was Thatcher's policy in '79 you mean? And we can all trust William Hague, can't we? He's the only politician who' s never told a lie, after all. Oh, wait...

Don't forget it was the SNP who brought Thatcher to power."

Actually, I'd disagree, they helped bring down the Labour government. The said Labour government had introduced a 40% rule which deprived Scotland of an assembly by shifting the goal posts. The majority of voters in Scotland voted for an assembly democratically but were fucked over by the labour government. The SNP, rightly so in my mind, helped bring them down. After that it was the electorate who brought Thatcher to power, not the SNP. That is.... the voters of the UK elected and returned the Tory party to power so don't give me the crap it was the SNP. I dare say there were a few people in Scotland at the time who felt totally cheated by the Labour party so would have gone out their way to punish them at the polls. Thatcher had been making promises of more powers etc in the event of a no vote, we believed it and we got royally screwed there too.....we won't be making that mistake again.

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By *UNKIEMan over a year ago

south east

Christopher Chope has told the BBC that there are enough back bench Conservative MPs in Parliament who are against more powers going to Scotland in the event of a No vote and who would vote against such a move.

Chope was discussing more powers on BBC Radio 4 when he was asked if he accepted that Westminster had now lost the power to veto further devolution as outlined by Gordon Brown this week. The MP replied: "No, I don't accept anything has been lost. If there is a No vote then it will be the status quo".

Challenged by the presenter that it would not be no change, Chope replied: "It will be, because we can't change the constitution without the approval of the United Kingdom Parliament and that seems to have been lost in this debate."

He added: "If for example the UK parliament had wanted to discuss Devo Max then the thing to have done would have been to put forward legislation on Devo Max two or three years ago so it was on the statute book and then the Scots could have been given the choice in the referendum between independence and Devo Max....

Asked if there were enough Conservative MPs opposed to more powers who would vote to prevent further devolution, Mr Chope replied: "Well in isolation I’m sure there would be, because those powers would be powers for us to Scotland but there wouldn't be any rebalance of the constitution and no discussion on some of the more basic issues that were raised in the MacKay report."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Still a big NO from me

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By *andemanMan over a year ago

bedforshire

Backbench tories always think they have more power than anyone else it's a congenital. They do not have more power than the rest of parlement combined and so it will go through.

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By *MD47 OP Man over a year ago

Glasgow

This would goto a vote in UK MPs. You seem to forget that the Tory dont have a majority. In order for it NOT to happen then a lot of MPs from the other parties would also have to oppose it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Interesting article from Robert Peston, sorry _nny i know its your thing quoting RP

There is something slightly odd about the links being widely made between the large capital outflows from the UK in July and August to fears that Scotland would vote for independence.At the time, opinion polls and bookies' odds were showing a very high probability of Scots voting to stay in the union. There was no evidence of investors being anxious about Scottish independence then......

Link to full article for those who wish to read it.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29190397

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By *MD47 OP Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"Interesting article from Robert Peston, sorry _nny i know its your thing quoting RP

Link to full article for those who wish to read it.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29190397"

Oh you cant quote or link to anything that is on the BBC. Apparently they are biased towards the No vote...

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By *UNKIEMan over a year ago

south east

This would goto a vote in UK MPs. You seem to forget that the Tory dont have a majority. In order for it NOT to happen then a lot of MPs from the other parties would also have to oppose it."

and if they do have enough to veto ....what happens then.....its a huge risk especially after they had already made sure devo max was NOT on the table during the referendum ....2 yrs ago.....also why do we have to wait until after the vote to hear what they powers would be....its all just a smoke screen to get the undecided to vote no.....i firmly believe scotland WILL get shafted by westminster if a no vote is retuned

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This would goto a vote in UK MPs. You seem to forget that the Tory dont have a majority. In order for it NOT to happen then a lot of MPs from the other parties would also have to oppose it.

exactly, the tories will veto any extra powers, or they will cave in to UKIP. only one way to get what we want

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By *andemanMan over a year ago

bedforshire

This would goto a vote in UK MPs. You seem to forget that the Tory dont have a majority. In order for it NOT to happen then a lot of MPs from the other parties would also have to oppose it."

Given the size of the likely turn out no party (small section of nut jobbies perhaps) will dare block a devo max vote. They will be so glad to avoid desaster they might throw in a few of their wives along with it.!

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By *MD47 OP Man over a year ago

Glasgow

This would goto a vote in UK MPs. You seem to forget that the Tory dont have a majority. In order for it NOT to happen then a lot of MPs from the other parties would also have to oppose it.

1. It would mean all the Tory MPs voting against plus the LibDems.

2. With regards Devomax that would have meant 3 options on the ballot paper which would have split things 3 ways.

The SNP were pushing for DevoMax to be on the ballot paper for some reason, why they would want that rather than just Yes or No, well I will leave others to draw their own conclusions.

3. Smoke Screen - I dont agree. We already have more devolved powers coming into play soon.

4. Shafted - I doubt that very much but going by SNP Stilars he will be shafting the companies that are saying a Yes vote is bad for Scotland.

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By *MD47 OP Man over a year ago

Glasgow

This would goto a vote in UK MPs. You seem to forget that the Tory dont have a majority. In order for it NOT to happen then a lot of MPs from the other parties would also have to oppose it.

exactly, the tories will veto any extra powers, or they will cave in to UKIP. only one way to get what we want"

They cant veto it. It will goto a vote, where does it say they can veto things?

If you read the extract from the House of Lords Report it does not say veto at all.

Its Business for Scotland that say this is "effectivley a veto" the document does not state that MPs can veto it. They can vote yes or no or abstain.

So there is no veto. Again people not reading what is actually in print but others like BFS putting thier on spin on it.

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By *UNKIEMan over a year ago

south east

1. It would mean all the Tory MPs voting against plus the LibDems.

After watching pm's questions on wednesday with hague at the helm..there seemed to be ALOT of support for the veto from ALL parties

2. With regards Devomax that would have meant 3 options on the ballot paper which would have split things 3 ways.

The SNP were pushing for DevoMax to be on the ballot paper for some reason, why they would want that rather than just Yes or No, well I will leave others to draw their own conclusions.

the goverment did not want to give away devo powers hence they refused to have it on the ballot paper ..they believed they had a vast majority (at that time) in favour of a no vote....its only been in the last week in a fit of panic at the polls coming through they hastily promised to bring these powers to the table

3. Smoke Screen - I dont agree. We already have more devolved powers coming into play soon.

I wouldnt count on it

4. Shafted - I doubt that very much but going by SNP Stilars he will be shafting the companies that are saying a Yes vote is bad for Scotland.

Sillars is former SNP ...in fact hes not an mp nowadays....and what he said was out of order....Scotland will want and need these companies to help secure our future...he will have no power to shaft them

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By *UNKIEMan over a year ago

south east

They cant veto it. It will goto a vote, where does it say they can veto things?

If you read the extract from the House of Lords Report it does not say veto at all.

Its Business for Scotland that say this is "effectivley a veto" the document does not state that MPs can veto it. They can vote yes or no or abstain.

So there is no veto. Again people not reading what is actually in print but others like BFS putting thier on spin on it."

ok take veto off the table ...now what will you call it if the majority in westminster vote no on the devo powers ?????

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By *UNKIEMan over a year ago

south east

Why even discuss what scraps we can get from westminster when we can vote yes and have the power to shape our OWN FUTURE on OUR terms

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By *MD47 OP Man over a year ago

Glasgow

1. It would mean all the Tory MPs voting against plus the LibDems.

After watching pm's questions on wednesday with hague at the helm..there seemed to be ALOT of support for the veto from ALL parties

*** There is no Veto. Read my previous post.

2. With regards Devomax that would have meant 3 options on the ballot paper which would have split things 3 ways.

The SNP were pushing for DevoMax to be on the ballot paper for some reason, why they would want that rather than just Yes or No, well I will leave others to draw their own conclusions.

**** The Devomax was put forward to split the vote simple as that. This is a Yes or No vote simple enough.

3. Smoke Screen - I dont agree. We already have more devolved powers coming into play soon.

I wouldnt count on it

*** I wouldnt count on the 113 dollar per barrall for oil that the SNP have done all thier figures on in their white paper.

4. Shafted - I doubt that very much but going by SNP Stilars he will be shafting the companies that are saying a Yes vote is bad for Scotland.

**** So why did Salmond bring him back into play then? All he did was put the back up of business people. The guy from Iceland summed him up "Bollocks"

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By *MD47 OP Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"Why even discuss what scraps we can get from westminster when we can vote yes and have the power to shape our OWN FUTURE on OUR terms"

Shape our own future? We have a whitepaper that is full of holes. The economical side of it does not add up. They are already Billions short in thier calculations due to the $16 dollar per barrell of oil. Does not sound a lot but based on millions being produced its massive.

With regards our Terms its NOT our terms its the Terms of the Scottish Gov that is in place at the time and what they have stated they want to do i.e. their manifesto.

Salmond is saying that it will be better for the poor peole of Scotland, but when asked if he will put up income tax for the high earners he will not answer but he is willing to cut the coperation tax for companies.

The currency is another total farce. Yes we can use the pound, we can use the US Dollar, we can use whatever we want but we dont have a central bank, that alone creates economic issues.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Sillars rather thrust himself on Yes. He and Salmond have hated each other for years and it only got worse when the Nats dumped Sillars wife off the MSP 'list'.

This may be Sillars revenge.

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By *MD47 OP Man over a year ago

Glasgow

They cant veto it. It will goto a vote, where does it say they can veto things?

If you read the extract from the House of Lords Report it does not say veto at all.

Its Business for Scotland that say this is "effectivley a veto" the document does not state that MPs can veto it. They can vote yes or no or abstain.

So there is no veto. Again people not reading what is actually in print but others like BFS putting thier on spin on it.

ok take veto off the table ...now what will you call it if the majority in westminster vote no on the devo powers ?????"

Thank you regarding the veto. The party leaders have said they will push this thru. The issues we have is that there are some loud mouth MPs who will try and block anything and everything but I am positive that there will be a majority vote in favour of more powers.

I am also sure that Wales will get more and that Engalnd will see the assembleys for the various regions which they badly need.

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By *MD47 OP Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"Sillars rather thrust himself on Yes. He and Salmond have hated each other for years and it only got worse when the Nats dumped Sillars wife off the MSP 'list'.

This may be Sillars revenge."

Your not the first one to say that with regards Sillars revenge. If it is then its very poor indeed that he did it. There was no need for it at all. I know that Sturgeon did say that it did not represent her _iews or the SNP _iews.

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By *UNKIEMan over a year ago

south east

They can only push it thru with the backing of their party members which isnt a done deal ....plus they WONT TELL US what powers they plan to put on the table until after the referendum........WHY NOT ????

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By *MD47 OP Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"They can only push it thru with the backing of their party members which isnt a done deal ....plus they WONT TELL US what powers they plan to put on the table until after the referendum........WHY NOT ????"

There are already a number of powers coming into play shortly these have been passed. The new ones that have been talked about are all to do with various tax, but not the vat or higher rate of income tax, we can already adjust the standard tax level.

We alredy have a big list of things that are devolved including the NHS.

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By *andemanMan over a year ago

bedforshire

Look yes there are some great smelly Jobbies on the Tory back benches. Actually all of them are jobbies. But if we vote no there is not a hope in hell of them backing out a devo max. The chance that the Scotish Goverment just declare UDI if they did would be too high and they would have a huge majority of public support even from the no camp to do it.

No the powers will come it's not credible to think they will not.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

In the event of a considerable raft of additional powers for Holyrood being presented at Westminster, I wonder how the SNP MPs would vote.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Sorry but fuck them all. I'm watching the news tonight and this referendum pish is making the headlines every day and night. It's all over this forum as well you want to vote YES/NO then that's fine will it make a huge difference does anybody actually know?. Take a moment and spare a thought for the poor individuals who are being captured and be headed and what their families are going through right now. It's about time something was done to find these evil bastards.

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By *ootlover456Man over a year ago

Paisley

exactly the kind of talk that gets us involved in illegal wars and makes us enemies.

don't take that statement for apathy however I do feel for those who are being beheaded by the very small group of extremists.

however it is not our right to interfere in the problems of other countries. especially if were going to pick and chose who we assist. all that does is make the situation worse

lets all remember that it was western interference during the cold war that caused most of the issues in the middle east that the British and American armies are gone to clear up and systematically managed to make worse every time in the first place.

and yes. a vote for yes will make a difference for the country will be run by the Scottish people instead of by Westminster. so no longer will we e dragged into illegal wars that cause nothing but hatred and bigotry to emerge in the first place.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We are ostensibly a peaceful nation, we've never as a nation alone crossed seas to invade other countries. We have ventured into the north of England of an evening but on the whole we have mainly defended ourselves. Our men have in centuries thrice past been involved in Unionist wars and even then, like the Ghurka, have been used as a forefront to any campaign conducted in the name of what we now know as the UK. We may say without question that since we joined the union we have paid a heavy price when it comes to war.

If we become an independent nation we will no longer suffer the tragedy of trident possibly, a peaceable nation with a rich diversity in populous, talented beyond our imagination, creative and cultured, sensible, hardened when we are threatened and stoic in our passion for equality.

I am dismayed that we have billions in revenue just off the west coast that is untapped because of trident and our politicians are at pains to deny its existence, I am dismayed when people say we have a fairer just society and health system because we are part of a union, I am perplexed its even a question of sovereignty, baffled that my fellow countrymen cannot have those healthy impassioned debates and still think we cannot be friends after.

This country, our country does not need a by your leave devolved assembly, if anything devolution has shown that with a little we can do a lot and its not because we are part of a union, its because of who we are. Yes its because Scots in the main have delivered so much with so.little that I shall vote yes

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By *andemanMan over a year ago

bedforshire

I too feel for the families of all the people killed in the name of false religion ( for clerity IS are fake Muslims Islam does not support their actions anymore than Christianity supports the westburough Baptidts) fanatics and madmen do not work on the rules of civilised society.

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By *andemanMan over a year ago

bedforshire

The oil. Big problem it's oil. Fossil fuels are coming to an end if we are serious about building a better world for our children. Than the truly ethical thing to do would be to shut the oil fields down. Global warming is no joke.

Then what?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The oil. Big problem it's oil. Fossil fuels are coming to an end if we are serious about building a better world for our children. Than the truly ethical thing to do would be to shut the oil fields down. Global warming is no joke.

Then what?"

There are billions being invested in cleaner greener energy, this current government stopped it. Where's the ethics there?

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By *MD47 OP Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Then what?

There are billions being invested in cleaner greener energy, this current government stopped it. Where's the ethics there?"

The snp need the oil revenue to come up with the goods. they used the 113 dollar price and now thats dropped by at least 16 dollars a barrel thats wiped millions if not billions off the figures. this is why they were warned not to use high figures.

As for renewables i think a chunk of it is a total con. All these windfarms and the cost of electricity has not gone.done. how many more do we need installed before we see the economic benifit.

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By *andemanMan over a year ago

bedforshire

Then what?

There are billions being invested in cleaner greener energy, this current government stopped it. Where's the ethics there?"

Not here to defend the Westminster Goverment bunch of tossers. The Scotish Goverment could and should have been supporting greener energy and industry creating Clean jobs. They have not and so now can not afford to run an economy without poisoning the planet. Where is the ethics in that.

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By *andemanMan over a year ago

bedforshire

Then what?

There are billions being invested in cleaner greener energy, this current government stopped it. Where's the ethics there?

As for renewables i think a chunk of it is a total con. All these windfarms and the cost of electricity has not gone.done. how many more do we need installed before we see the economic benifit.

Sadly a hell of a lot. But tidel and geo thirmal and solar Could do a lot to reduce that. Combo green generation is the way to go. Stirling uni is a world leader in the research but what has the SNP done with it? Not a lot and so now we poison the country of our great grand children.

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By *ane DTV/TS over a year ago

Glasgow ish

From Eck this morning. ..

Asked whether an independent Scotland would have to pay more to borrow money, the first minister replies: "No, you have to have sustainable level of borrowing and debt. As far as the cost is concerned, we'll be borrowing at Sterling rates."

Oh ffs, an iScotland will pay rates the international bond market thinks appropriate to the risk of an iScotland defaulting on its debt.

If you walk away from the UK debt, it will count against you in the international markets.

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By *andemanMan over a year ago

bedforshire

"From Eck this morning. ..

Oh ffs, an iScotland will pay rates the international bond market thinks appropriate to the risk of an iScotland defaulting on its debt.

If you walk away from the UK debt, it will count against you in the international markets."

Yep here we go again with a lying politician contemptuously trading on his personal belief that the people are stupid!

You are absolutely correct about this. It'd no different to your own credit card default on your responsibilities and the company will charge you more as a high risk.

And did you notice the Tory doctrine of only spend what you urn? So much for improving public service without a massive hike in tax. Tax that will be paid by young j_nny Magregor the Tesco manager in Fife and not by Syngin Smyth the tax dodger accountent in Farnham!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yes, still a yes.

As to the green energy, the Scottish gov along with the Dutch are world leaders in this field. "ah I think its a con" ha ha pmsl at the logic applied.

No voters, why is there no coverage about the worlds largest oil discovery outside of the middle east in the west coast of Scotland?

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By *ane DTV/TS over a year ago

Glasgow ish

From March...

Finance secretary John Swinney has promised to update figures on oil revenues after claims they were “inflated” to support the case for independence.

Mr Swinney made the commitment during a Conservative-led debate on the Scottish Government’s financial projections for the country after a Yes vote in the referendum.

“The government intends to publish its third oil and gas analytical bulletin, which will set out the impact recent developments have on the outlook for future production and revenues as a consequence,” Mr Swinney told MSPs.

Still no update!

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By *ane DTV/TS over a year ago

Glasgow ish

"Yes, still a yes.

As to the green energy, the Scottish gov along with the Dutch are world leaders in this field. "ah I think its a con" ha ha pmsl at the logic applied.

No voters, why is there no coverage about the worlds largest oil discovery outside of the middle east in the west coast of Scotland? "

The Clar field. . Wow that one again.

Had there been any significant find, then the company that finds it are duty bound to report any major changes to their shareholders.

See..

Transparency Obligations Directive - the Act brings into force the European Directive imposing obligations on main list companies in relation to financial reporting, disclosure of major acquisitions or disposals of its shares and the dissemination of information about the company to its shareholders and the public generally. The Act gives the Financial Services Authority power to make rules to implement the requirements of the Directive, which would be implemented by way of changes to the existing Listing Rules and Disclosure Rules. The Act also introduces a statutory compensation scheme for misleading or inaccurate statements in reports.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 16/09/14 10:13:25]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ok I get it clearly now.

I've changed my mind, voting no now thanks for that Jane

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By *ane DTV/TS over a year ago

Glasgow ish

"Still no answer Jane to.my question?

Cos it blows you oil argument out of the water?

Did you also know the UK government told the Scottish people in 1970's that there was only 10 years worth of oil?

Stop looking to the south and pleading with puppies eyes and sore paws for permission."

Wow, oil, the panacea for the Scottish economy. It's not just about oil, it's about a broad based supportive economy that can sustain the nation into the future.

BNP Paribas Bank - 40,000 jobs lost in financial services.

Credit Suisse 180-300 basis points on iScotland debt charges.

Independence at any cost...

Everyone's wrong except the Eck and his cult of personality -

A cult of personality arises when an individual uses mass media, propaganda, or other methods, to create an idealized, heroic, and at times, worshipful image, often through unquestioning flattery and praise.

Sociologist Max Weber developed a tripartite classification of authority; the cult of personality holds parallels with what Weber defined as "charismatic authority". A cult of personality is similar to hero worship, except that it is established by mass media and propaganda usually by the state, especially intotalitarian states.

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By *andemanMan over a year ago

bedforshire

"Still no answer Jane to.my question?

Cos it blows you oil argument out of the water?

Did you also know the UK government told the Scottish people in 1970's that there was only 10 years worth of oil?

Stop looking to the south and pleading with puppies eyes and sore paws for permission.

Wow, oil, the panacea for the Scottish economy. It's not just about oil, it's about a broad based supportive economy that can sustain the nation into the future.

BNP Paribas Bank - 40,000 jobs lost in financial services.

Credit Suisse 180-300 basis points on iScotland debt charges.

Independence at any cost...

Everyone's wrong except the Eck and his cult of personality -

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Alistair Darling has you in spades then.eh? As for Cameron and Milliband, from you're perspective at least I.only got that once

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By *ane DTV/TS over a year ago

Glasgow ish

"Alistair Darling has you in spades then.eh? As for Cameron and Milliband, from you're perspective at least I.only got that once

God know where you get that rubbish from.

Yet again you accuse me of being in the thrall of Westminster. What next an Uncle Jock or how about Not a True Scot.

As my other half is 50% english you could throw the race traitor quip in too?

All I'm trying to do is point out the utter failure of the Yes campaign to provide any coherent financial plan.

Echoing this - "yesterday, a group of 13 of the country’s leading economic academics signed a joint letter warning of the dangers of a Yes vote.

They included Dr Simon Clark, head of the department of economics at the University of Edinburgh, and Christian Ewald, professor of financial economics at the University of Glasgow. “Our main contention is that Scotland is unlikely to be richer and fairer if there is a Yes vote in the referendum,” it stated.

“Our message is simple, the First Minister’s economic case for independence is not proven.”

How about the £450 million black hole in NHS funding being hidden by the SNP?

The papers were passed to the BBC and The Herald by a senior NHS whistleblower, who said they had become frustrated by the argument of the "Yes" campaign that the biggest threat to the NHS comes from the UK government.

The documents state: "The status quo and preservation of existing models of care are no longer an option given the pressing challenges we face."

The whistleblower has alleged that pressures on the NHS come from Scottish government policies."