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Conflict of interest
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I'm interested in hearing people's views on the whole Independence/EU membership conflict.
I'm of the opinion that if you're for the former you can't possibly be for the latter. I mean gaining control of your ultimate governance one day, then farming a sizeable portion of it out along with a big sack of cash the next.
Is the slogan to be "Yes for Independence*"
*apart from agriculture,fisheries,migration,financial regulation,top tier justice,trade.
Does anyone here intend on voting Yes, who also voted UKIP last week? If so, what do you plan on doing about Alex's plans to fight membership through in 18 months?
Or is it as I ultimately expect, an "anyone but the fucking English" protest vote which will win it, without proper thought to the consequences? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm a better together. I think we have done pretty well and to go it alone there are too many unknowns.
My job security is a major factor and as for Europe. I'm on the fence. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm in the no camp also and I posted the same question on my social network page last week. I'm at a lose with people that want independence but want governed by Brussels.
I voted ukip because I want Britain out of Europe |
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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago
Glasgow ish |
My job relies on both UK and EU funding.
I have yet to see where the funding for my future and the immediate future of those around me will come from in an independent Scotland.
The assumption in the White Paper that Scotland will get automatic entry to the EU and all the UK opt outs a the same time to be at least nieve if not disingenuous.
Time and again we, the public, are referred to this tome as if it was fact.
It is, in fact, an aspirational document.
Aspiration
noun
1. strong desire, longing, or aim; ambition: intellectual aspirations.
I wonder if the Snp really do want independence or are they really after Devo Max?
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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago
Glasgow ish |
My job relies on both UK and EU funding.
I have yet to see where the funding for my future and the immediate future of those around me will come from in an independent Scotland.
The assumption in the White Paper that Scotland will get automatic entry to the EU and all the UK opt outs a the same time to be at least nieve if not disingenuous.
Time and again we, the public, are referred to this tome as if it was fact.
It is, in fact, an aspirational document.
Aspiration
noun
1. strong desire, longing, or aim; ambition: intellectual aspirations.
I wonder if the Snp really do want independence or are they really after Devo Max?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm just trying to get my head round the concept and wondering if the two positions could coexist happily."
have to be honest from your op i wasnt sure where you were coming from, but in answer to the above, i dont see any reason why the two cant coexist.
After all the question at hand is should we be independent not should we be isolated.
my own opinion is there is more to be gained by being part of the EU than there is to being outwith the EU.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Really can't see the logic in getting independence from Westminster, then being ruled by an incompetent bunch of unelected burocrats in Brussels!!!   "
you make a fair point re: unelected bureaucrats bothy, i would happily vote no if westminster gave a guarantee that the unelected house of lords would be abolished and maybe do something about the unelected bureaucrats in the civil service. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I'm just trying to get my head round the concept and wondering if the two positions could coexist happily.
have to be honest from your op i wasnt sure where you were coming from, but in answer to the above, i dont see any reason why the two cant coexist.
After all the question at hand is should we be independent not should we be isolated.
my own opinion is there is more to be gained by being part of the EU than there is to being outwith the EU.
"
But surely you're already in the EU as part of the union? And part of the EU isn't true independence is it? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Really can't see the logic in getting independence from Westminster, then being ruled by an incompetent bunch of unelected burocrats in Brussels!!! "
You're going to have to stop being so sensible Bothy, the yes campaign won't tolerate it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm just trying to get my head round the concept and wondering if the two positions could coexist happily.
have to be honest from your op i wasnt sure where you were coming from, but in answer to the above, i dont see any reason why the two cant coexist.
After all the question at hand is should we be independent not should we be isolated.
my own opinion is there is more to be gained by being part of the EU than there is to being outwith the EU.
But surely you're already in the EU as part of the union? And part of the EU isn't true independence is it?"
in order to answer that i would need you to explain what you mean by "true independence" |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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An independant Scotland would be the richest country in eurpoe,(per head of population)
But, Eu membership would negate that as our EU contributions would be based on our ability to pay.
EU can never work financially as all the member nations have different size economies and wealth, therefor the membership taxes are uneven and unfair. The rich will always have to subsidise the poor countries.
Too many in the EU purely for handouts.
Sod them, bring back the Empire  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My enemy's enemy is a problem for another day  first we need to get free from being ruled by posh davie and his 1mp and cleggie the cardboard cutout with his doomed party from darkest westminster, then we can work out how to escape the clutches of Brussels |
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By *lassic1Man
over a year ago
bellshill |
"Wow, lot of interesting stuff in here. and I still can't even make my mind up to vote Yes or No......"
My god you are damned right.....I wondered what the op would expect at first but .....geesso ....are we any further on ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'll be honest I've read a lot of stuff here that's going to make me go look stuff up. OP thanks for starting this, and everyone else for the reasonable discusiion  |
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I will very likely be voting no to independence but I am also worried by the rise of UKIP. I am pro-Europe (generally). My father fought in WW2 and people are beginning to forget how fragile peace in Europe has been in the past. Although the EU has significant problems and does need reform in some areas it has,I think, contributed to keeping a largely peaceful continent and built a large trading block from which we (the UK) significantly benefit.
Alex Salmond is pro-EU and assumes an independent Scotland would automatically be admitted but this is not certain.
UKIP does change the dynamic as a lot of pro-Europe people in Scotland may be thinking what happens if we vote to stay in the UK and then the UK (as a whole) vote to leave the EU.
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Just one more point about un-elected bureaucrats - this is a common complaint about the EU but misunderstands how the EU actually functions. The Commission are the EU civil service and can only propose new rules or regulations. Proposals are debated and must be voted on and adopted by the EU Parliament and the council of Ministers which are both elected. In the same way the UK, or Scotland, has an un-elected civil service who advise the government and draft legislation - but it is voted into power by the elected members of parliament. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"There are also the people who go the other way who are anti independence and also anti Europe. How can you be against Scotland governing itself when you want independence from Brussels???"
They're called UKIP!
But that's a very good point also. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I just don't think the eu works there are many different cultures throughout Europe not 1 country is the same and I think that's lost on Brussels
IMO Britain has become very PC because of Europe also, Scottish people are known for their kind of aggressive, cutting, straight to the point humour and I think it's being frowned on now. How many times to you hear people saying oh you can't say that. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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The EU has nothing to do with standardization of culture or race. It's purely a beuracracy. (Is that spelled correctly?? :-/)
And I think that yes there are some things you can't say in public anymore, and that's a good thing. It's nothing to do with political correctness gone mad, it's just common sense and not wanting to hurt someone. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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A lot of interesting topics in here. I personally think that there will be a mass rubbing of heads in Europe as the shock results from all over Europe basically has told the fat cats in Brussels enough is enough. The common market policy in principle should work for all concerned but over the years the EU has developed too much for itself and now the member states have in some small way rebelled. They have to change and will. As for Independence I for one am for it and will be voting Yes, I am of the opinion that Scotland as an Independent country will flourish, it's off putting when the negativity of the better together campaign is basically bashing us all. There is a lot of information out there, who knew for example that there is a growing number of Labour, Lib-Dems, Conservatives all wanting an Independent Scotland, check them out in a simple google search. Wealthy Nation is also another good site to check out. Some of the other things you don't hear is for example Tesco Bank has vowed to remain in Scotland if it becomes independent. Fun times to come. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Scotland just as much deserves to be a free , Independent self determining country just as much as every country on this planet .But if the day comes and a section of the people of Scotland vote to give our freedom and right to self determination away to another country , a country that has a very dubious reputation on the world stage , do they also give away the right to be called a a people at all , if you give away your rights to freedom you give away everything and become at best slaves. As for europe , well Scotland wasn't a free country when the concept of the European collective was created and we were took into it , but you fight one battle at a time , freedom from the cold dead hand of westminster toryism first , then the rest of our problems can be looked at |
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By *elboy34Man
over a year ago
midlothian |
Am no big into polticts but what's the point of people saying I dident vote but would have done this if I did if you don't bother to vote or put ur x in a box nothing is going to change ? I'm not haveing a dig at anyone, I think all the parties are the same we will do this and this and even that as soon as there arse is in the chair they do fuck all britain used to be a majour exporter of all goods now we just inport all manner of goods when we could sustain brittish jobs and even better scottish jobs ! Just me on ma soap box
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