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Scottish Independence - A Yes or No?
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"I'm against independence. I'm British and Scottish, I think you can be both. I would be in favour of more powers to Holyrood, but not outright independence. I'd also be in favour of England getting their own parliament (Westminster is the UK parliament, which just happens to also serve England) and leave Westminster for international issues and domestic issues which affect everyone in the country . This would be similar to America and other federations, where the States vote and legislate for their own issues, and the Federal Government is for National ones. "This makes a lot of sense... pity every man and his dog would accept this, apart from the 600 plus tossers in parliament. We are fed up of everyone else having their own mini parliaments, deciding their own issues, but also being able to vote on English issues. For that reason alone if we had the vote, (which we see as a UK wide issue, not just a Scottish issue), we would definitely vote for Scottish Independence. Plus if Scotland has independence there's absolutely no way FIFA could force us to have a GB Football Team! Now THAT'S an issue that the SNP haven't as yet exploited! | |||
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"Im a yes man through and through. Though I would be willing to concider funguys compromise. My reasons have been posted on other threads before but here they are. I remember when Scotland returned almost 100% Labour mps to westminster. And were still saddled with a Tory goverment. I believe in our right to govern ourselfs. As for the Alex and Nicola show... I dont see it continuing post Indipendence. Scots as a nation are naturally more left wing politicaly and I believe we would probably return a Labour goverment to Hollyrood in the first general ellection." Exactly this Independance is not about Salmond.......its about what is best for the future of Scotland. So its an emphatic YES from me | |||
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"Wow david bowie... well hes always be a voice of reason lol" Elton John has put his weight gain behind the Yes campaign, well he is the Rocket Man. | |||
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"oh no here we go again !!!!!!"
Nae point on here though. Am oot. | |||
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"If anyone hasn't watched Ivan McKee economic case for Scottish independence then I'd strongly recommend it. And although he has had his issues, Tommy Sheridan has a speech on YouTube which has had 64,000 views in 2 weeks. You'll see why if you watch it. Also a good reminder that this is not about one man or one party. " Tommy likes a good party. | |||
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"IFS says "Scotland's ageing population, declining North Sea oil revenues and higher borrowing costs will create a perfect storm if the country breaks away from Britain, Institute for Fiscal Studies warns Scotland faces "significant" tax rises and spending cuts if it breaks away from the UK, a report by the Institute for Fiscal Studies has warned, as an ageing population and declining North Sea oil revenues put the country on an unsustainable debt path." " The worlds oil revenues are declining....thankfully Scotland, as an independent nation, has more than enough to last 60 years plus the west coast has even been tapped into yet. So that's 60 years security for Scotland...that's something all the greedy public schoolboys in London certainly can't offer | |||
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"IFS says "Scotland's ageing population, declining North Sea oil revenues and higher borrowing costs will create a perfect storm if the country breaks away from Britain, Institute for Fiscal Studies warns Scotland faces "significant" tax rises and spending cuts if it breaks away from the UK, a report by the Institute for Fiscal Studies has warned, as an ageing population and declining North Sea oil revenues put the country on an unsustainable debt path." " IFS is 'just' a think tank though. Right? Above isn't 'IFS says' from the report either, its skewed with a Pro Union view, Telegraph perhaps? Here's the actual, unedited, conclusion from the report: 'Independence would provide Scotland with an opportunity to set its own fiscal course. In common with all countries, it would face constraints and would have to make – sometimes uncomfortable – choices. In broad terms, the short-run outlook for an independent Scotland looks as if it might be no more uncomfortable than that for the UK as a whole (assuming geographic assignment of oil revenues). The crucial unknown would be whether the financial markets might assess risk differently and thus raise the cost of the borrowing. In the longer term, the choices may be starker. Spending in Scotland is higher, per capita, on many public services than is the case elsewhere in the UK. Onshore tax revenues per capita are very similar. The balance is, in very broad terms, made up by North Sea revenues. This balance may not be sustainable in the face of volatile and, over the long run, probably diminishing North Sea revenues. That, alongside the same sort of demographic pressures that are affecting the UK and most other European countries, will force some choices on an independent Scotland. These choices – over fiscal rules and architecture, about how to design an effective tax and spending system, about how to plan for long-term pressures – are the same ones that all countries need to make. The next step must be to set out and quantify them in the Scottish context.' In short, we're not really any different to the UK or any other country really, sure we may have to tax more but we'll be taxing more to spend here. People always compare to Nowray and high taxes - yet fail to mention their salaries are typically 4.5x ours and really, their taxation isn't much more than our present rate. No one can guarantee the UK Gvnt won't tax more either as their borrowing spirals out of control (Scot Govnt in the black and within budget incidentally). Sure there will be tough choices, but it's tough choices we decide, unlike the bedroom tax that we didn't decide and voted against. We won't have trident, so there's £1bn per year in the pot already. Growth in Tourism, creatives, renewables, whisky (new distillery opening this year in Skye) to name a few. Concur with the Ivan McKee and Business For Scotland folks. Great stuff. | |||
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"Yes, because it'll get rid of English rule. But I've still to hear enough benefit of why we should vote yes, I'm unsure of the economic impact and what the tax situation will be like. .... "Have a watch of the videos mentioned above. Ivan McKee especially. Anyone who thinks we are somehow subsidised by down south and can't afford to make our own decisions has to ask themselves - why does this cruel Tory party who are victimising the poor and the vulnerable instead of the tax avoiders and corrupt bankers want to be suddenly charitable to a country who despises them and never votes for them. It's not for nostalgia! | |||
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"Yes, because it'll get rid of English rule. But I've still to hear enough benefit of why we should vote yes, I'm unsure of the economic impact and what the tax situation will be like. .... "Do you know what the UK future Tax situation will be? Have they made it clear? Of course not, no one does. I'd much rather have an increase in tax, if indeed it does rise by a "significant" amount, and that money be spent here on services, NHS, free education etc, than as we are and our money being used for illegal wars that we don't want to be involved in or nukes on our shores we don't want either. | |||
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"If we become independent Do we not need to have a vote to decide wether to join the eu" No. However if we wanted to leave it in the future then a referendum would be proposed (this is what is happening in the UK at the moment.) Basically independence puts the decisions over such things in our hands. Can you imagine voting no and then, despite the majority of us wanting to remain in the eu, we are taken out of it by votes down south? Entirely possible. | |||
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"Agree with a few of you I believe in the union, but also would love to be a nation on our own, but believe that we as a population have no definite answers to any questions ie currency, taxes, share of UK dept. What we need Alex salmon and the yes crowd to do is give us definitive answers to our questions and concerns then there would be more yes votes" The Scottish government can no more give you certainty than the UK government can. The yes camp can only give the same level of assurances the no camp can. The future is uncertain for everyone. The difference, for me, is that post independence it will be in our hands. | |||
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"Agree with a few of you I believe in the union, but also would love to be a nation on our own, but believe that we as a population have no definite answers to any questions ie currency, taxes, share of UK dept. What we need Alex salmon and the yes crowd to do is give us definitive answers to our questions and concerns then there would be more yes votes The Scottish government can no more give you certainty than the UK government can. The yes camp can only give the same level of assurances the no camp can. The future is uncertain for everyone. The difference, for me, is that post independence it will be in our hands. " So, when Salmond says 'we WILL keep the £' and 'we WILL be in the EU but we WON'T use the euro' - it's all just bluster* and no certainty? * by bluster, I mean bollox. | |||
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"Agree with a few of you I believe in the union, but also would love to be a nation on our own, but believe that we as a population have no definite answers to any questions ie currency, taxes, share of UK dept. What we need Alex salmon and the yes crowd to do is give us definitive answers to our questions and concerns then there would be more yes votes" Already definitives in currency. £ union preferred. If that doesn't happen it's 99.9% certain the £ will still be used, like isle if man, Falklands etc. It will be a currency Union though. Business won't go for it any other way. Taxes as above, no one, not even UK can say what taxes are going to be going forward. Debt can't be decided completely until after referendum. Again, 2 options for that per head share or % share based on GDP - or none at all maybe, we might start with a clean slate. Pretty sure Ireland did. Many questions are deliberately being either misled, skewed (currency, EU etc) or just plain refused to be discussed in advance by WM. One thing that is a fact. No government can tell you what's happening a year from now definitively. Bank crisis was proof of that. Oh, an while I'm there RBS? Scotland, whether Indy or not, would have paid the same into RBS during the collapse. It's shite that we would have had to pick up the whole tab. The part that collapsed was and always has been London based and pretty much detached from the daily RBS we know up here. More scare and myth. | |||
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"Agree with a few of you I believe in the union, but also would love to be a nation on our own, but believe that we as a population have no definite answers to any questions ie currency, taxes, share of UK dept. What we need Alex salmon and the yes crowd to do is give us definitive answers to our questions and concerns then there would be more yes votes The Scottish government can no more give you certainty than the UK government can. The yes camp can only give the same level of assurances the no camp can. The future is uncertain for everyone. The difference, for me, is that post independence it will be in our hands. So, when Salmond says 'we WILL keep the £' and 'we WILL be in the EU but we WON'T use the euro' - it's all just bluster* and no certainty? * by bluster, I mean bollox." Correct. If you'd seen the parliament discussion with Fabian Zuleeg today he backed up that to the hilt and rubbished Barroso's intervention last week. | |||
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"Im a yes man through and through. Though I would be willing to concider funguys compromise. My reasons have been posted on other threads before but here they are. I remember when Scotland returned almost 100% Labour mps to westminster. And were still saddled with a Tory goverment. I believe in our right to govern ourselfs. As for the Alex and Nicola show... I dont see it continuing post Indipendence. Scots as a nation are naturally more left wing politicaly and I believe we would probably return a Labour goverment to Hollyrood in the first general ellection. Exactly this Independance is not about Salmond.......its about what is best for the future of Scotland. So its an emphatic YES from me" | |||
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"IFS says "Scotland's ageing population, declining North Sea oil revenues and higher borrowing costs will create a perfect storm if the country breaks away from Britain, Institute for Fiscal Studies warns Scotland faces "significant" tax rises and spending cuts if it breaks away from the UK, a report by the Institute for Fiscal Studies has warned, as an ageing population and declining North Sea oil revenues put the country on an unsustainable debt path." " You are doing exactly what the Westminster media. did. You are taking one part of the report. After considering all the things you quote( you don't quote the good points) the conclusion was as I quoted | |||
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"IFS says "Scotland's ageing population, declining North Sea oil revenues and higher borrowing costs will create a perfect storm if the country breaks away from Britain, Institute for Fiscal Studies warns Scotland faces "significant" tax rises and spending cuts if it breaks away from the UK, a report by the Institute for Fiscal Studies has warned, as an ageing population and declining North Sea oil revenues put the country on an unsustainable debt path." You are doing exactly what the Westminster media. did. You are taking one part of the report. After considering all the things you quote( you don't quote the good points) the conclusion was as I quoted" Nope, he's cut and pasted the opening part from the Telegraph. None of that is in the study. | |||
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"Agree with a few of you I believe in the union, but also would love to be a nation on our own, but believe that we as a population have no definite answers to any questions ie currency, taxes, share of UK dept. What we need Alex salmon and the yes crowd to do is give us definitive answers to our questions and concerns then there would be more yes votes The Scottish government can no more give you certainty than the UK government can. The yes camp can only give the same level of assurances the no camp can. The future is uncertain for everyone. The difference, for me, is that post independence it will be in our hands. So, when Salmond says 'we WILL keep the £' and 'we WILL be in the EU but we WON'T use the euro' - it's all just bluster* and no certainty? * by bluster, I mean bollox." I'm not making any declaration either way in this forum but both sides should have a read of this piece that deals with why the currency union is absolutely not in the interests of rUK. it goes a little way to setting out the some of the current legal issues that surround some of the points of the independence debate and seems to highlight that the SNP either actually have no idea about the currency union situation (which I very much doubt) or they're deliberately misleading the Scottish public. Breaking up the UK isn't as simple as we get 25% of everything. http://notesfromnorthbritain.wordpress.com/2014/01/28/the-hidden-costs-of-independence/ If Scotland IS to become Independent, it should be all in or all out. If Scotland wants to be truly independent, we go it alone, for better or worse. You don't ask to break up the Uk and then cherry-pick the juicy bits that you want to keep. | |||
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"Agree with a few of you I believe in the union, but also would love to be a nation on our own, but believe that we as a population have no definite answers to any questions ie currency, taxes, share of UK dept. What we need Alex salmon and the yes crowd to do is give us definitive answers to our questions and concerns then there would be more yes votes The Scottish government can no more give you certainty than the UK government can. The yes camp can only give the same level of assurances the no camp can. The future is uncertain for everyone. The difference, for me, is that post independence it will be in our hands. So, when Salmond says 'we WILL keep the £' and 'we WILL be in the EU but we WON'T use the euro' - it's all just bluster* and no certainty? * by bluster, I mean bollox. I'm not making any declaration either way in this forum but both sides should have a read of this piece that deals with why the currency union is absolutely not in the interests of rUK. it goes a little way to setting out the some of the current legal issues that surround some of the points of the independence debate and seems to highlight that the SNP either actually have no idea about the currency union situation (which I very much doubt) or they're deliberately misleading the Scottish public. Breaking up the UK isn't as simple as we get 25% of everything. http://notesfromnorthbritain.wordpress.com/2014/01/28/the-hidden-costs-of-independence/ If Scotland IS to become Independent, it should be all in or all out. If Scotland wants to be truly independent, we go it alone, for better or worse. You don't ask to break up the Uk and then cherry-pick the juicy bits that you want to keep." I don't read anything in that that hasn't already been said and acknowledged by the Yes camp, with regard to CU. It's pretty much what they're saying. Difficult, yes, requires negotiation, yes, must be in the interests of whole UK, yes. All as is. Why do we alway have the negative comparison of Panama and the USD instead of the more similar Hong Kong and the USD. Which is a more realistic outlook on how Scotland would be pegged to England in the event of no CU. It's all info though. Read both sides, come to your own conclusion. Similarly S, go have a look at Business for Scotland. You're exactly who they are aimed at. It's a great site. Almost 1500 business members from Scotland. | |||
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" Similarly S, go have a look at Business for Scotland. You're exactly who they are aimed at. It's a great site. Almost 1500 business members from Scotland." It doesn't seem to be working. | |||
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"and yet again everyone has missed one important point ,currently ALL the VAT collected in Scotland ends up in London with an independent Scotland that amongst other taxes would stay in Scotland to be spent for and on the people of Scotland so I am 100% yes not for me or wee alex but 75 years from the day scotland became independent your kids and your grandkids or great grandkids in some cases will live in a more equal society #kidsareourfuture give them a solid foundation to build on" Nonsense. Scottish VAT doesn't 'end up' in London but is administered via India St in Glasgow and distributed, amongst other monies, via Joel's wonderful sums. | |||
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SAOR ALBA | |||
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" Similarly S, go have a look at Business for Scotland. You're exactly who they are aimed at. It's a great site. Almost 1500 business members from Scotland. It doesn't seem to be working." No it's doesn't! Is it in the Inverclyde school catchment area? They blocked Yes Scotland's site - but not BTs. Will post when it's back up. | |||
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"and yet again everyone has missed one important point ,currently ALL the VAT collected in Scotland ends up in London with an independent Scotland that amongst other taxes would stay in Scotland to be spent for and on the people of Scotland so I am 100% yes not for me or wee alex but 75 years from the day scotland became independent your kids and your grandkids or great grandkids in some cases will live in a more equal society #kidsareourfuture give them a solid foundation to build on Nonsense. Scottish VAT doesn't 'end up' in London but is administered via India St in Glasgow and distributed, amongst other monies, via Joel's wonderful sums." if only it was that simple, westminster governments(both labour and conservative) have been very selective in the way they attribute the tax take throughout the uk. for example diageo pay their tax bill via their head office in london as a result the official figures dont attribute the relevent amounts to each area of the UK. It works in the opposite direction as well, the result being these figures are not a true reflection of the tax receipts for any part of the UK. and if you try to get a breakdown of the figures under FOI you get a polite letter telling you where to go, that'll be transparent government in action. | |||
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" Similarly S, go have a look at Business for Scotland. You're exactly who they are aimed at. It's a great site. Almost 1500 business members from Scotland. It doesn't seem to be working. No it's doesn't! Is it in the Inverclyde school catchment area? They blocked Yes Scotland's site - but not BTs. Will post when it's back up." They don't have schools in Inverclyde  | |||
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"Just now im leaning towards a yes vote , someone mentioned before that MP's from Scotland or Wales or N.I have been making decisions on English affairs , however English MP's have been making decisions that affect the rest of the UK for centuries and no one complained . It seems to me they are happy to dish it out but not take it . Also the financial side of things , well it cant really get that much worse in terms of running things , it was after all a UK government that managed to mess things up on a grand scale . Before you all jump on my head screaming im an anglophile or a nationalist , i got two kids with thick essex accents . However the more negative the better together campaign gets , and the more im told what we cant do , the more i think breaking away is a better idea . At least that way we might get screwed over , have to work forever , have high taxes etc etc but will be our taxes and pensions , my country , our laws etc etc instead of having some distant posh twat who only comes up here when shit hit the fan telling me what to do . "I think you may be confusing the word anglophile with something else. | |||
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"It's a big hell yes from me. I'm not into polticians and their agendas but go and have a look at the Business for Scotland site and watch some of their videos on YouTube. It's shocking for years we've been fed the line that we're subsidised by Westminster when it's actually the other way round. And don't take the "you couldn't have bailed your banks out" bullshite the bailout is made where the losses are run up .. in London not Edinburgh! Roll on 18 September and please god don't let us throw away the chance to be our own nation again in every sense []" It's even more shocking that people believe what they see on You Tube. | |||
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"It's a big hell yes from me. I'm not into polticians and their agendas but go and have a look at the Business for Scotland site and watch some of their videos on YouTube. It's shocking for years we've been fed the line that we're subsidised by Westminster when it's actually the other way round. And don't take the "you couldn't have bailed your banks out" bullshite the bailout is made where the losses are run up .. in London not Edinburgh! Roll on 18 September and please god don't let us throw away the chance to be our own nation again in every sense [] It's even more shocking that people believe what they see on You Tube." Well go along to one of their meetings then, doesn't mean they ain't talking sense | |||
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"Agree with a few of you I believe in the union, but also would love to be a nation on our own, but believe that we as a population have no definite answers to any questions ie currency, taxes, share of UK dept. What we need Alex salmon and the yes crowd to do is give us definitive answers to our questions and concerns then there would be more yes votes The Scottish government can no more give you certainty than the UK government can. The yes camp can only give the same level of assurances the no camp can. The future is uncertain for everyone. The difference, for me, is that post independence it will be in our hands. " Yes but would you not want certain assurances from yer man salmond, | |||
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"What's scotland going to do when orkney, shetland and the western Isles go independent too. there are not enough people here who work are make money for the country to pay for everything (ie nhs .police. fire.armed force and council are paid by the state) and all the folk that are retired or to young to work do contribute. the north sea money is only just enough to pay for the working age sick and unemployed. its a no from me." Isle of Man? Falklands? To all intents an purposes fully independent. | |||
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"When all is said and done, the whole debate revolves around whether you want Scotland to be an independent country or not. All the rest is either petty point scoring, bluster or speculation, although admittedly some of that is informed. Scotland CAN be a successful independent nation, that is obvious. If the former war-torn states of the former Yugoslavia can do it, so can we. If the states that broke away from the Soviet Union can do it, so can we. Especially as we have more natural resources and a stronger economic base than they had from which to build. Questions like what percentage of the UK's historical debt we inherit, the currency, membership of the EU and Nato, etc, all these things will be sorted out by negotiation. In those negotiations, we might feel we have won some arguments, we might feel we have lost others, but there is no doubt that compromises will be made on both sides and that what will emerge will be a settlement both sides believe will be in their own best interests. We are already members of the EU and Nato as part of the UK. There would be two new nations created - Scotland and "the rest of the UK". Do you think that those two organisations are going to kick out one of the those new nations, i.e. Scotland, but keep the other one? Of course not. It will all be sorted out by negotiation. So it all boils down to whether you want Scotland to be independent or not. You might want to decide that out of economic self-interest - by believing one side or the others' claims about whether the new nation (and yourself) might be richer or poorer as a result. Personally, as neither side (or even independent forecasters) has a strong enough argument either way or can see that far into the future anyway, I prefer to make my decision on what I do know from experience. I do know from experience that decentralising power tends to produce better government and that similar, smaller nations like Norway have been successful. I do know that the UK economy has become so skewed towards London - and particularly the City of London - that it is almost impossible to see a British government being able to break the cycle of tax avoidance, big bank bonuses and a general trend towards the top few percent of the population owning most of the wealth. That will continue no matter the colour of the party in power - unless the Greens suddenly become a major force - and this week's revelation about Tony Blair's relationship with Rebekah Brooks shows how much Labour has itself become part of the establishment. For all our flag-waving and sing-songing, I do know that Scots (there are exceptions of course) have a certain lack of self-confidence that is partly the result of being the junior partner to the English in the present UK. Some of the most passionate supporters of independence I know are non-Scots - Europeans and North Americans living here who tell me that we need to assert ourselves more because, back where they come from, England and the UK are synonymous. Yes, considering the population size, a high percentage of Scots compared to many other nations have become successful on the world stage, in business, politics, science, or whatever. Just think how much more influential we could be if we could add a new self-confidence that being a nation again would bring." | |||
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"When all is said and done, the whole debate revolves around whether you want Scotland to be an independent country or not. All the rest is either petty point scoring, bluster or speculation, although admittedly some of that is informed. Scotland CAN be a successful independent nation, that is obvious. If the former war-torn states of the former Yugoslavia can do it, so can we. If the states that broke away from the Soviet Union can do it, so can we. Especially as we have more natural resources and a stronger economic base than they had from which to build. Questions like what percentage of the UK's historical debt we inherit, the currency, membership of the EU and Nato, etc, all these things will be sorted out by negotiation. In those negotiations, we might feel we have won some arguments, we might feel we have lost others, but there is no doubt that compromises will be made on both sides and that what will emerge will be a settlement both sides believe will be in their own best interests. We are already members of the EU and Nato as part of the UK. There would be two new nations created - Scotland and "the rest of the UK". Do you think that those two organisations are going to kick out one of the those new nations, i.e. Scotland, but keep the other one? Of course not. It will all be sorted out by negotiation. So it all boils down to whether you want Scotland to be independent or not. You might want to decide that out of economic self-interest - by believing one side or the others' claims about whether the new nation (and yourself) might be richer or poorer as a result. Personally, as neither side (or even independent forecasters) has a strong enough argument either way or can see that far into the future anyway, I prefer to make my decision on what I do know from experience. I do know from experience that decentralising power tends to produce better government and that similar, smaller nations like Norway have been successful. I do know that the UK economy has become so skewed towards London - and particularly the City of London - that it is almost impossible to see a British government being able to break the cycle of tax avoidance, big bank bonuses and a general trend towards the top few percent of the population owning most of the wealth. That will continue no matter the colour of the party in power - unless the Greens suddenly become a major force - and this week's revelation about Tony Blair's relationship with Rebekah Brooks shows how much Labour has itself become part of the establishment. For all our flag-waving and sing-songing, I do know that Scots (there are exceptions of course) have a certain lack of self-confidence that is partly the result of being the junior partner to the English in the present UK. Some of the most passionate supporters of independence I know are non-Scots - Europeans and North Americans living here who tell me that we need to assert ourselves more because, back where they come from, England and the UK are synonymous. Yes, considering the population size, a high percentage of Scots compared to many other nations have become successful on the world stage, in business, politics, science, or whatever. Just think how much more influential we could be if we could add a new self-confidence that being a nation again would bring." Well said.... YES YES YES | |||
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"No no no " Ok diamond tell us why | |||
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"No no no Ok diamond tell us why " . There I are a million & one reasons why . To be honest this is not a place I want to spill my politics. We are BRITISH & always will be whatever September brings | |||
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"There I are a million & one reasons why . To be honest this is not a place I want to spill my politics. We are BRITISH & always will be whatever September brings" What do you mean by British? I respect that you wish to withhold your personal politics but without stating any of those 'million & one reasons why' then you will not be able to convince anyone who is undecided to vote no never mind being able to get folk like me to change my vote. | |||
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"Fuck not this old cherry again....would the last person out please put the lights out and close the door" please feel free to post on the Happy Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, etc posts if they are more to your taste | |||
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"According to the Labour party....Scottish people aren't genetically programmed to make political decisions!!! Glad to see that the not so far right thinks so highly of us.....the sooner we are rid the better!!!" You don't think making decisions on the available facts is more sensible than genetic programming? | |||
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"According to the Labour party....Scottish people aren't genetically programmed to make political decisions!!! You don't think making decisions on the available facts is more sensible than genetic programming?" What ya talkin about Onny???? | |||
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"This would be similar to America and other federations, where the States vote and legislate for their own issues, and the Federal Government is for National ones. "If you read the book Union, you will discover that in the five years leading upto 1707 Andrew Fletcher actualy proposed a federal goverment system instead of the amalgamation of the parliments. | |||
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"According to the Labour party....Scottish people aren't genetically programmed to make political decisions!!! You don't think making decisions on the available facts is more sensible than genetic programming? What ya talkin about Onny????" Answering Deep's point. | |||
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"This would be similar to America and other federations, where the States vote and legislate for their own issues, and the Federal Government is for National ones.
If you read the book Union, you will discover that in the five years leading upto 1707 Andrew Fletcher actualy proposed a federal goverment system instead of the amalgamation of the parliments. "He also promoted Darien, and we all know how well that worked out. | |||
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"According to the Labour party....Scottish people aren't genetically programmed to make political decisions!!! You don't think making decisions on the available facts is more sensible than genetic programming? What ya talkin about Onny???? Answering Deep's point." Didnt read like to me it reads like youre agreeing with him. | |||
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"If you read the book Union, you will discover that in the five years leading upto 1707 Andrew Fletcher actualy proposed a federal goverment system instead of the amalgamation of the parliments. He also promoted Darien, and we all know how well that worked out." Darien was a tragedy. Im not going to deny Fletcher was a supporter of it. He wasnt the only one. Though in the aftermath of it he was one of the few who didnt vote with their purse as their brain and stuck to his convictions and beliefs about Scots and their right to atonimous self rule. | |||
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"According to the Labour party....Scottish people aren't genetically programmed to make political decisions!!! You don't think making decisions on the available facts is more sensible than genetic programming? What ya talkin about Onny???? Answering Deep's point. Didnt read like to me it reads like youre agreeing with him." I cannot be held responsible for your lack of understanding of my post. | |||
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" I cannot be held responsible for your lack of understanding of my post." Would mind explaining it to me please? | |||
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"Trying to change the subject won't work. Yesterday (or last week) - TSB. Today - Standard Life. Tomorrow - Scottish Widows? RBS? 7 months to go?" Today standard life what? | |||
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"Standard Life are making plans to move parts of their organisation to other parts of the UK should Scotland commit political suicide by voting for independance. Why does Alex Salmond persist is assuming that eveyone is going to back track and folow his plan? All the polotical leaders have said that an independant Scotland would not keep the pound. Alex Salmond - "they're bluffing". Gets told that it is unlikely that Scotland would get into the EU. Alex Salmond - "they're bluffing". Gets told that it is not automatic that Scotland would join NATO. Guess the response! That man is so arrogant in presuming that everyone is going to agree to everything he says that he hasn't even bothered to have a Plan B just in case it doesn't quite work out. " No he isn't. He just has a bit more political savvy than some. If you think it is unlikely we will be in the eu then, in my belief, you have very little polictical savvy. Why wouldn't we be in the eu? You also think there isn't a plan b. There is, of course. Strange that you think there isn't. Did the bbc tell you there wasn't one by the way? NATO? So they are going to chuck us out to are they? Leaving a big gap in the North Atlantic? Why would they do that? Speaking for myself, I don't just listen to Alex Salmond for my info, I source it myself and make up my own mind. | |||
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"Standard Life are making plans to move parts of their organisation to other parts of the UK should Scotland commit political suicide by voting for independance. " And if course, no they are not. Who told you this? The bbc? | |||
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"No doubt Mr Salmond will tell is the Twitter statement was posted by Better Together. Somehow they also managed to post it on Standard Life's website. Time Salmond stopped burying his head up his own arse." Time you learned how to read. | |||
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"...and there we have it. Straight from the horses mouth. Not quite what was being reported was it? They are making plans to reassure their customers. If you want to spin this the other way - "Standard life support currency union." " The horse is Lloyds. They're probably offski too. | |||
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"No doubt Mr Salmond will tell is the Twitter statement was posted by Better Together. Somehow they also managed to post it on Standard Life's website. Time Salmond stopped burying his head up his own arse. Time you learned how to read." Did you read their statement too?  | |||
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"Nowhere in that statement does it say Standard Life are quitting Scotland in the event of a Yes vote." They'll vanish like snaw aff a dyke. | |||
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"Nowhere in that statement does it say Standard Life are quitting Scotland in the event of a Yes vote." From what I heard on the BBC news was that they were looking at how they could move parts of their business out of Scotland if they needed to if there was a yes vote - I believe that is what they say in their own statement? or have I read it wrong? | |||
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" They'll vanish like snaw aff a dyke." Right. You know they came out with a similar thing before devolution, don't you? (you don't) Did they go then? (they didn't) Perhaps they are just trying to reassure their customers? (they are) | |||
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" From what I heard on the BBC news was that they were looking at how they could move parts of their business out of Scotland if they needed to if there was a yes vote - I believe that is what they say in their own statement? or have I read it wrong? "Well what they have said is "we have started work to establish additional registered companies to operate outside Scotland, into which we could transfer parts of our operations if it was necessary to do so." You and the BBC are reading that simply as "if there was a yes vote." There is also a very real possibility that is not necessary to do so, for example if the UK government decide to allow negotiations with the Scottish Government on a plan in the event of a Yes vote. Another example would be if there was a currency union. Like I say, they have said similar before and it transpired that no move was needed. | |||
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"Nowhere in that statement does it say Standard Life are quitting Scotland in the event of a Yes vote. From what I heard on the BBC news was that they were looking at how they could move parts of their business out of Scotland if they needed to if there was a yes vote - I believe that is what they say in their own statement? or have I read it wrong? "what they are doing is registering subsiduary companies, a prudent move in case they end up dealing with two regulators. just as they have at the moment in various countries including Germany, Canada, Hong kong and a number of others. | |||
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"No doubt Mr Salmond will tell is the Twitter statement was posted by Better Together. Somehow they also managed to post it on Standard Life's website. Time Salmond stopped burying his head up his own arse." He could plug it with Lamont's big mincey heid. About all it's good for. This is taken from the Herald, 28 June 1995 in relation to the then, upcoming, referendum on devolution: 'He said Scottish business such as Scottish and Newcastle, Morrison Construction Group, Standard Life, and Scottish Widows were very closely integrated with the rest of the UK and their ability to create and maintain wealth depended on this. But devolution could result in them moving their headquarters south of the Border, he claimed.' We've heard it all before. Pish then, pish now. Standard Life's shares fell 11p today by the way. | |||
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" They'll vanish like snaw aff a dyke. Right. You know they came out with a similar thing before devolution, don't you? (you don't) Did they go then? (they didn't) Perhaps they are just trying to reassure their customers? (they are)" Ah, so it's all bluff and scaremongering... The same accusation the SNP make about anyone who doesn't agree with them. | |||
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" Ah, so it's all bluff and scaremongering... The same accusation the SNP make about anyone who doesn't agree with them." Did I say that? No I said they are simply reassuring their customers. It is the BBC and the mainstream unionist media who are scaremongering. Delve deeper into this stuff. | |||
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" From what I heard on the BBC news was that they were looking at how they could move parts of their business out of Scotland if they needed to if there was a yes vote - I believe that is what they say in their own statement? or have I read it wrong?
Well what they have said is "we have started work to establish additional registered companies to operate outside Scotland, into which we could transfer parts of our operations if it was necessary to do so."
You and the BBC are reading that simply as "if there was a yes vote."
There is also a very real possibility that is not necessary to do so, for example if the UK government decide to allow negotiations with the Scottish Government on a plan in the event of a Yes vote. Another example would be if there was a currency union.
Like I say, they have said similar before and it transpired that no move was needed. "And as always Duncan you are reading it the way you want to i.e. as a good thing - you will always be blinkered into believing a yes vote is a good thing and that is up to you but not everyone believes the same... That's the trouble with politics, both sides can spin any story to suit their own needs! | |||
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" Ah, so it's all bluff and scaremongering... The same accusation the SNP make about anyone who doesn't agree with them. Did I say that? No I said they are simply reassuring their customers. It is the BBC and the mainstream unionist media who are scaremongering. Delve deeper into this stuff." Well, yes I do believe you did say they're bluffing... I quote "Right. You know they came out with a similar thing before devolution, don't you? (you don't) Did they go then? (they didn't)" Looks awful like you're say they bluffed before so they'll do it again, just the way I read it. | |||
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" And as always Duncan you are reading it the way you want to i.e. as a good thing - you will always be blinkered into believing a yes vote is a good thing and that is up to you but not everyone believes the same... That's the trouble with politics, both sides can spin any story to suit their own needs!" No I am not. I am reading it the way it is. The BBC is funded by us and today they spun a story about Standard Life's statement as being "They are leaving in the event of a Yes vote" and that is clearly not the case. I have given my reasons why and I have given an example of when they said this before and it didn't happen. Someone else has helpfully posted the exact story. Further evidence of my point being true is that Scotland, today, received the good news that a credit rating agency has said "Even excluding North Sea output and calculating per capita GDP only by looking at onshore income, Scotland would qualify for our highest economic assessment. Higher GDP per capita, in our view, gives a country a broader potential tax and funding base to draw from, which supports creditworthiness." How did the BBC get on with this then? Is this today's story? Read it again, and explain to me why not. | |||
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" Well, yes I do believe you did say they're bluffing... I quote "Right. You know they came out with a similar thing before devolution, don't you? (you don't) Did they go then? (they didn't)" Looks awful like you're say they bluffed before so they'll do it again, just the way I read it." No I didn't. I am not calling it a bluff. There is a difference between bluffing and letting your customers know that you, as a company looking after their investments, are covering all options. It's not bluff. But it is also not "Vote yes and we are leaving!" | |||
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" And as always Duncan you are reading it the way you want to i.e. as a good thing - you will always be blinkered into believing a yes vote is a good thing and that is up to you but not everyone believes the same... That's the trouble with politics, both sides can spin any story to suit their own needs! No I am not. I am reading it the way it is. The BBC is funded by us and today they spun a story about Standard Life's statement as being "They are leaving in the event of a Yes vote" and that is clearly not the case. I have given my reasons why and I have given an example of when they said this before and it didn't happen. Someone else has helpfully posted the exact story. Further evidence of my point being true is that Scotland, today, received the good news that a credit rating agency has said "Even excluding North Sea output and calculating per capita GDP only by looking at onshore income, Scotland would qualify for our highest economic assessment. Higher GDP per capita, in our view, gives a country a broader potential tax and funding base to draw from, which supports creditworthiness." How did the BBC get on with this then? Is this today's story? Read it again, and explain to me why not." TBH Duncan I could explain a lot to you but you are so blinkered that a yes vote is going to turn Scotland into the most wonderful place in the world to live that it isn't worth the effort - I'll leave you to your wee dream and let you argue politics on this thread with yourself! | |||
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" And as always Duncan you are reading it the way you want to i.e. as a good thing - you will always be blinkered into believing a yes vote is a good thing and that is up to you but not everyone believes the same... That's the trouble with politics, both sides can spin any story to suit their own needs! No I am not. I am reading it the way it is. The BBC is funded by us and today they spun a story about Standard Life's statement as being "They are leaving in the event of a Yes vote" and that is clearly not the case. I have given my reasons why and I have given an example of when they said this before and it didn't happen. Someone else has helpfully posted the exact story. Further evidence of my point being true is that Scotland, today, received the good news that a credit rating agency has said "Even excluding North Sea output and calculating per capita GDP only by looking at onshore income, Scotland would qualify for our highest economic assessment. Higher GDP per capita, in our view, gives a country a broader potential tax and funding base to draw from, which supports creditworthiness." How did the BBC get on with this then? Is this today's story? Read it again, and explain to me why not." Not from the BBC. "Scotland would struggle to match the UK’s AAA credit rating with Standard & Poor’s if it failed to negotiate a currency union with London or the eurozone, the credit rating agency warned on Thursday." | |||
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" "Scotland would struggle to match the UK’s AAA credit rating with Standard & Poor’s if it failed to negotiate a currency union with London or the eurozone, the credit rating agency warned on Thursday." " From the Fabswingers Gazette "Onny in currency union support shock" You starting to see how this works? | |||
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" From the Fabswingers Gazette "Onny in currency union support shock" You starting to see how this works?" "Onny in Union support. No shock" | |||
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" And as always Duncan you are reading it the way you want to i.e. as a good thing - you will always be blinkered into believing a yes vote is a good thing and that is up to you but not everyone believes the same... That's the trouble with politics, both sides can spin any story to suit their own needs! No I am not. I am reading it the way it is. The BBC is funded by us and today they spun a story about Standard Life's statement as being "They are leaving in the event of a Yes vote" and that is clearly not the case. I have given my reasons why and I have given an example of when they said this before and it didn't happen. Someone else has helpfully posted the exact story. Further evidence of my point being true is that Scotland, today, received the good news that a credit rating agency has said "Even excluding North Sea output and calculating per capita GDP only by looking at onshore income, Scotland would qualify for our highest economic assessment. Higher GDP per capita, in our view, gives a country a broader potential tax and funding base to draw from, which supports creditworthiness." How did the BBC get on with this then? Is this today's story? Read it again, and explain to me why not. Not from the BBC. "Scotland would struggle to match the UK’s AAA credit rating with Standard & Poor’s if it failed to negotiate a currency union with London or the eurozone, the credit rating agency warned on Thursday." " If anyone is interested in reading the entire story instead of a single paragraph this is from the financial times. | |||
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"We were sent an email from the CEO of our company the other day warning us that is we believe the "lies of the SNP" we would put our jobs on the line because of the EU rules that would come in to play and Scotland wouldn't be allowed to trade with EU countries for 3 years, I have tried to find such facts of this and can't find these fact. What I have found is speculation , as this situation has never happened within the EU there isn't any provision for this. My point is should employers tell their workforce how to vote in a referendum ,using jobs as the carrot? mX" Absolutely not. Disgraceful. Is it a big company? | |||
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"We were sent an email from the CEO of our company the other day warning us that is we believe the "lies of the SNP" we would put our jobs on the line because of the EU rules that would come in to play and Scotland wouldn't be allowed to trade with EU countries for 3 years, I have tried to find such facts of this and can't find these fact. What I have found is speculation , as this situation has never happened within the EU there isn't any provision for this. My point is should employers tell their workforce how to vote in a referendum ,using jobs as the carrot? mX" That letter should never have been written, regardless of which direction it pointed voters. As for the 3 years, in the increasingly unlikely event of Separation, it COULD be 3 years, it COULD be forever. | |||
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"We were sent an email from the CEO of our company the other day warning us that is we believe the "lies of the SNP" we would put our jobs on the line because of the EU rules that would come in to play and Scotland wouldn't be allowed to trade with EU countries for 3 years, I have tried to find such facts of this and can't find these fact. What I have found is speculation , as this situation has never happened within the EU there isn't any provision for this. My point is should employers tell their workforce how to vote in a referendum ,using jobs as the carrot? mX" Whiiiiiiiit?!!! That's complete tosh. We had a guy at work pulled up for wearing a yes badge, now we all wear them and hats and drink out of yes mugs. | |||
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" As for the 3 years, in the increasingly unlikely event of Separation, it COULD be 3 years, it COULD be forever." Or it could be 2.8 nanoseconds. You are getting more ridiculous by the post. And now are party political broadcasts from the We are too poor and stupid to run our own country party. "Hey everyone.....Look behind you....BOO!!!!!! oooh scary" | |||
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"We were sent an email from the CEO of our company the other day warning us that is we believe the "lies of the SNP" we would put our jobs on the line because of the EU rules that would come in to play and Scotland wouldn't be allowed to trade with EU countries for 3 years, I have tried to find such facts of this and can't find these fact. What I have found is speculation , as this situation has never happened within the EU there isn't any provision for this. My point is should employers tell their workforce how to vote in a referendum ,using jobs as the carrot? mX" This idea that the EU will impose a ban of trade with Scotland - For what? Why? They don't want our products, no? They don't want to sell us theirs? They are going to veto us cos we left the UK (who are holding an in/out referendum on EU themselves) and for no other reason. I can't believe anyone (apart from Onny) would believe that for a second. | |||
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"We were sent an email from the CEO of our company the other day warning us that is we believe the "lies of the SNP" we would put our jobs on the line because of the EU rules that would come in to play and Scotland wouldn't be allowed to trade with EU countries for 3 years, I have tried to find such facts of this and can't find these fact. What I have found is speculation , as this situation has never happened within the EU there isn't any provision for this. My point is should employers tell their workforce how to vote in a referendum ,using jobs as the carrot? mX This idea that the EU will impose a ban of trade with Scotland - For what? Why? They don't want our products, no? They don't want to sell us theirs? They are going to veto us cos we left the UK (who are holding an in/out referendum on EU themselves) and for no other reason. I can't believe anyone (apart from Onny) would believe that for a second." Protectionism is a strange beast. Who knows, perhaps the Irish would think their whiskey could fill some of the gap left in the EU by there being no access to whisky. | |||
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" Who knows, perhaps the Irish would think their whiskey could fill some of the gap left in the EU by there being no access to whisky." Haha, you do give us a laugh I suppose. So the Irish policy is now to sabotage a neighbouring country, vetoing their access to the EU and severing any hope of a continuing friendship between the two states, not to mention how this looks to the rest of Europe, all on the hope that whisky lovers everywhere will suddenly prefer Jamieson's to Jura. This is just getting silly now. | |||
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" Who knows, perhaps the Irish would think their whiskey could fill some of the gap left in the EU by there being no access to whisky. Haha, you do give us a laugh I suppose. So the Irish policy is now to sabotage a neighbouring country, vetoing their access to the EU and severing any hope of a continuing friendship between the two states, not to mention how this looks to the rest of Europe, all on the hope that whisky lovers everywhere will suddenly prefer Jamieson's to Jura. This is just getting silly now. " They might just take a punt on it
All's fair in love and (trade) war. | |||
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"Yeah that's a nightmare right enough. Imagine being a rich country? Feck that. It's foodbanks for me all the way. " There's a difference between 'rich' and 'expensive'. | |||
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" There's a difference between 'rich' and 'expensive'." Ok let's have a wee look at this list of yours. Other hellholes listed in the top 5 include such hovels as Sydney and Zurich. Looking down at the bottom of the list, clearly doing things right, is Mumbai and Damascus. Are you serious? Norway is an expensive country, yes. But do you grasp why? Or do you imagine they are all lying in the streets starving because a tin of beans cost £40? What you continually fail to understand is that the average wage in Norway is 50k a year! In Scotland it £24k. Scotland's average net wage is £19k and norways is £35k. That's effective tax rates of 22% and 30% respectively. Higher tax, sure. But not that higher! And a better standard of living for it and they still have more money that us at the end of the month. | |||
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"Manchester, not so different from Scottish cities, came 49th. It ain't all about income and tax." how does Norway compare with the UK in terms of equality and social justice _nny, any info on these areas by any chance ? | |||
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"Manchester, not so different from Scottish cities, came 49th. It ain't all about income and tax. how does Norway compare with the UK in terms of equality and social justice _nny, any info on these areas by any chance ?" Google is your friend. Whatever I post will suffer accusations of bias. | |||
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"Manchester, not so different from Scottish cities, came 49th. It ain't all about income and tax. how does Norway compare with the UK in terms of equality and social justice _nny, any info on these areas by any chance ? Google is your friend. Whatever I post will suffer accusations of bias." ok, would you agree that its better to live in a more equal society with high levels of social justice ? | |||
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"I don't know anyone touting a landslide and I involve myself in this debate everyday! I've also seen lots of polls. I also saw a poll just before that 2011 Scottish elections that predicted a labour win." What's the relevance of a 2011 poll in a general election? | |||
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"Manchester, not so different from Scottish cities, came 49th. It ain't all about income and tax. how does Norway compare with the UK in terms of equality and social justice _nny, any info on these areas by any chance ? Google is your friend. Whatever I post will suffer accusations of bias. ok, would you agree that its better to live in a more equal society with high levels of social justice ?" Didn't Google give you the answer you wanted? | |||
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" What's the relevance of a 2011 poll in a general election?" Erm...that polls are wrong sometimes. | |||
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"Manchester, not so different from Scottish cities, came 49th. It ain't all about income and tax. how does Norway compare with the UK in terms of equality and social justice _nny, any info on these areas by any chance ? Google is your friend. Whatever I post will suffer accusations of bias. ok, would you agree that its better to live in a more equal society with high levels of social justice ? Didn't Google give you the answer you wanted?" i cant get your opinion from google, the question was directed to you. Are you avoiding answering the question ? | |||
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"Manchester, not so different from Scottish cities, came 49th. It ain't all about income and tax. how does Norway compare with the UK in terms of equality and social justice _nny, any info on these areas by any chance ? Google is your friend. Whatever I post will suffer accusations of bias. ok, would you agree that its better to live in a more equal society with high levels of social justice ? Didn't Google give you the answer you wanted?" google said...vote yes or you're a fud | |||
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"Manchester, not so different from Scottish cities, came 49th. It ain't all about income and tax. how does Norway compare with the UK in terms of equality and social justice _nny, any info on these areas by any chance ? Google is your friend. Whatever I post will suffer accusations of bias. ok, would you agree that its better to live in a more equal society with high levels of social justice ? Didn't Google give you the answer you wanted? i cant get your opinion from google, the question was directed to you. Are you avoiding answering the question ?" You asked for info, not my opinion. | |||
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"Manchester, not so different from Scottish cities, came 49th. It ain't all about income and tax. how does Norway compare with the UK in terms of equality and social justice _nny, any info on these areas by any chance ? Google is your friend. Whatever I post will suffer accusations of bias. ok, would you agree that its better to live in a more equal society with high levels of social justice ? Didn't Google give you the answer you wanted? i cant get your opinion from google, the question was directed to you. Are you avoiding answering the question ? You asked for info, not my opinion." and after you answered i asked the following: Would you agree that its better to live in a more equal society with high levels of social justice ? The question is there for all to see, how about an answer ! | |||
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"Manchester, not so different from Scottish cities, came 49th. It ain't all about income and tax. how does Norway compare with the UK in terms of equality and social justice _nny, any info on these areas by any chance ? Google is your friend. Whatever I post will suffer accusations of bias." doesnt stop u any other time,or do u not want to answer the question? | |||
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"Manchester, not so different from Scottish cities, came 49th. It ain't all about income and tax. how does Norway compare with the UK in terms of equality and social justice _nny, any info on these areas by any chance ? Google is your friend. Whatever I post will suffer accusations of bias. doesnt stop u any other time,or do u not want to answer the question?" I've been listening to Eck accusing London of being the "Dark Star". | |||
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"Manchester, not so different from Scottish cities, came 49th. It ain't all about income and tax. how does Norway compare with the UK in terms of equality and social justice _nny, any info on these areas by any chance ? Google is your friend. Whatever I post will suffer accusations of bias. ok, would you agree that its better to live in a more equal society with high levels of social justice ? Didn't Google give you the answer you wanted? i cant get your opinion from google, the question was directed to you. Are you avoiding answering the question ? You asked for info, not my opinion. and after you answered i asked the following: Would you agree that its better to live in a more equal society with high levels of social justice ? The question is there for all to see, how about an answer !" as expected no answer, so much for debate/discussion. if anyone is interested in equality & social issues i recommend a book called the spirit level by Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett. recommended to me by Bob Thomson former chairman and treasurer of scottish labour party. | |||
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" I've been listening to Eck accusing London of being the "Dark Star"." I don't expect you to know, or care (you not a keen fan of facts) but the dark star reference was a quote from prof Tony Travers of the London school of economics. Its fair comment when you consider all the money and talent that is sucked down south. Remember, Scotland is a rich country on paper. Look around. Where the hell is it all? (That's a rhetorical question so focus on the other questions asked). | |||
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"A defo no for me. I just dont think its been thought through properly. The referendum has been pushed upon far too early for a start, to coincide with 700 year anniversary of Battle of Bannockburn, then the Mickey Mouse games as well as the Golf, all a SNP tactic hoping that a wave of Scottishness with engulf us all. I also think Scotland will be bankrupt within 5 year. Salmond is fueled by his ego end Sturgeon is a horrible woman, both not fit to run the country. Even David Bowie called for sense on the Brits last night. You only have to look at the 2 most recent bi elections, which give you an idea of how the vote will go. " It was the Tories who insisted upon pushing it through so quickly (very apt, lol), I can't think why they would want to do that, can you???? Vote 'YES', Scotland; it makes sense!!! | |||
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"Do you notice a trend on these debates? Yes supports tend to have facts and figures and reasoned analysis. No supports tend to just say "it won't happen but offer little reason. They do say that the more people know about the issues, the more likely they are to vote yes. Look at the news. Foodbanks and unemployment. A rich nation. What is going wrong? Better together for whom? " to be fair theres good and bad in both camps. Have had some good discussions with both yes and no voters and also a lot of people who are undecided. | |||
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"Do you notice a trend on these debates? Yes supports tend to have facts and figures and reasoned analysis. No supports tend to just say "it won't happen but offer little reason. They do say that the more people know about the issues, the more likely they are to vote yes. Look at the news. Foodbanks and unemployment. A rich nation. What is going wrong? Better together for whom? " better together since you want to keep pound sterling......
so... whats plan b??? same questions thats been asked for weeks... same answer thats been given by everyone in the yes camp
"la la la... i'm not listening!"
for those people who say all the power is at westminster..... well actually all decisions made at a local scottish level are actually made by holyrood at the scottish parliament... and I am sure you all vote in those elections (well... half of you did.. turnout was 50%)
so lets see what decisions are already made at a local level.....
agriculture, fisheries and forestry
economic development;
education;
the environment;
food standards;
health;
housing;
local government and planning;
social work;
some transport policy, such as Scottish ports and roads;
tourism | |||
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"Do you notice a trend on these debates? Yes supports tend to have facts and figures and reasoned analysis. No supports tend to just say "it won't happen but offer little reason. They do say that the more people know about the issues, the more likely they are to vote yes. Look at the news. Foodbanks and unemployment. A rich nation. What is going wrong? Better together for whom? better together since you want to keep pound sterling......
so... whats plan b??? same questions thats been asked for weeks... same answer thats been given by everyone in the yes camp
"la la la... i'm not listening!"
for those people who say all the power is at westminster..... well actually all decisions made at a local scottish level are actually made by holyrood at the scottish parliament... and I am sure you all vote in those elections (well... half of you did.. turnout was 50%)
so lets see what decisions are already made at a local level.....
agriculture, fisheries and forestry
economic development;
education;
the environment;
food standards;
health;
housing;
local government and planning;
social work;
some transport policy, such as Scottish ports and roads;
tourism"Well said that (English)man. | |||
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"Do you notice a trend on these debates? Yes supports tend to have facts and figures and reasoned analysis. No supports tend to just say "it won't happen but offer little reason. They do say that the more people know about the issues, the more likely they are to vote yes. Look at the news. Foodbanks and unemployment. A rich nation. What is going wrong? Better together for whom? better together since you want to keep pound sterling......
so... whats plan b??? same questions thats been asked for weeks... same answer thats been given by everyone in the yes camp
"la la la... i'm not listening!"
for those people who say all the power is at westminster..... well actually all decisions made at a local scottish level are actually made by holyrood at the scottish parliament... and I am sure you all vote in those elections (well... half of you did.. turnout was 50%)
so lets see what decisions are already made at a local level.....
agriculture, fisheries and forestry
economic development;
education;
the environment;
food standards;
health;
housing;
local government and planning;
social work;
some transport policy, such as Scottish ports and roads;
tourism"if only it was that dimple _abio, but much of Westminster policy doesnt work in favour of the majority of the UK never mind just Scotland. heres one example, Mr Osbourne increased the surcharge paid on northsea oil and gas taxation to 38% (creating effective tax rates of between 64% and 81%) One of the knock on effects of this is that the maintenance yard at Nigg has made every apprentice redundant due to a decline in spend on maintenance and decommissioning by oil companies. this was a good move for the treasury but not for industry or local communities. | |||
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"Can't wait for the next 'Onnyism'! As said above, those supporting independence seem to go out of their way to find information and facts from a wide variety of sources while supporters of the union just seem to take everything that's said in the papers,and main stream media, as fact without actually researching it for themselves. " Because the no camp can only offer the status quo...which let's face it, isn't an attractive prospect so they are left to try and twist any positive comments on pro independence into negatives.. .that is all they can do... .and for those (one in particular) who say it will never happen, they seem to take great pains in rubbishing any positive comments...why bother if its never going to happen.....worried that Scots people might realise we've been getting shafted for years? | |||
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" so... whats plan b??? same questions thats been asked for weeks... same answer thats been given by everyone in the yes camp "la la la... i'm not listening!"
"I think you are the one not listening. Plan b is to keep the pound. It's been mentioned here about a hundred times. | |||
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" so... whats plan b??? same questions thats been asked for weeks... same answer thats been given by everyone in the yes camp "la la la... i'm not listening!"
I think you are the one not listening. Plan b is to keep the pound. It's been mentioned here about a hundred times. "so you want to keep a currency you have no control over in a one way union... and who will be your "lender of last resort"? | |||
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