FabSwingers.com > Forums > Scotland > 5 years in jail for immoral earnings
5 years in jail for immoral earnings
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Margaret Patterson, the Edinburgh madam, has been jailed for five years through immoral earnings from a prostitution ring.
It is unlikely she will spend the full term in jail.
I'm not into using prostitutes. If girls are forced into it, are controlled or have drug addictions then they should get help to leave.
But the girls were not walking the streets and did choose it, because of the money. Some from being single parents and in debt.
Can't the police do better things with their time?
I will accept she did have a business and probably wasn't paying tax. Lots if businesses accept cash in hand. But the tax payer now has to pay for her five years in jail.
Was the court justified in sending her to jail?
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There are a lot more people than her that deserve locking up.
As I am not familiar with the case then it needs to be seen if she was just controlling working girls or if there was any coersion or trafficking. Tax evasion is another one where they crack down hard.
Chances are that there was a list of charges and they have all been totted up. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Four girls gave evidence. None of them said they were forced. The judge said that she 'technically didn't control the women'.
No accusations of trafficking. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The police can't pick and choose what crimes should be reported or not. If people aren't happy that this woman was charged then they should lobby their MP to legalise prostitution, not have a go at the police. She broke he law and has to take responsibility for that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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So does the clubs on here pay tax as men have to pay for these places I'm sorry this lady is no different to the people that run these clubs as for police not doing there jobs may I add majority seem to me at these clubs maybe bosses should look right under there noses !! My motto is take a lady out for nice meal if there's no mutual conection fine there's no pressure as for clubs £25 to £30 to get in and all rides are free not my scene |
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By *lue4youCouple
over a year ago
Lanarkshire |
In my experience everyone pays for a social night at these clubs, with buffet and soft drinks included. deluded if one thinks that £25 or £30 entitles you to sex anywhere other than with a prostitute.  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The police can't pick and choose what crimes should be reported or not. If people aren't happy that this woman was charged then they should lobby their MP to legalise prostitution, not have a go at the police. She broke he law and has to take responsibility for that."
They do have some discretion on how to act, with orders sometimes coming from the top. Discretion too on how vigorous they investigate things. (I've had a few a few incidences were I've had to scream at the police to do something and been blatantly rude to them to get things done. Sometime being nicely nicely doesn't work).
I can see both points of view but if no one was injured or forced into it, I'm more inclined to be lenient. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Lets not digress into clubs please if we can. That would require a different posting. I'd like it if anyone who wishes to say anything to stick with the first posting.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"In my experience everyone pays for a social night at these clubs, with buffet and soft drinks included. deluded if one thinks that £25 or £30 entitles you to sex anywhere other than with a prostitute. "
So we don't pay for sex? Just the buffet & drinks ? |
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"So does the clubs on here pay tax as men have to pay for these places I'm sorry this lady is no different to the people that run these clubs as for police not doing there jobs may I add majority seem to me at these clubs maybe bosses should look right under there noses !! My motto is take a lady out for nice meal if there's no mutual conection fine there's no pressure as for clubs £25 to £30 to get in and all rides are free not my scene "
No you are not paying for the sex its somewhere you can go and socialise and all adults are consenting , yes you get buffet and drinks inc but you are failing to see the other cost involved electricity the renting of the property the cleaning and the washing of items, you are obv new to the scene .
Sorry to Mr Gemini as you did ask to keep to the right topic but i could not see how this man could say what he said . |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Fair enough. I'd maybe just like one posting that might stick to the subject and were folk, even if they disagree, to do so politely. So we could avoid aggression and a barney lol.
Don't upset him too much. You might get a free dinner out if it. 
I don't think some women might like to be referred to as 'free rides' or their protective husbands hearing that. |
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By *lue4youCouple
over a year ago
Lanarkshire |
Sorry again Mr Gemmini, but the attitude displayed here about paying for club entry, and therefore "all rides are free" mentality, is likening the experience to a visit to a brothel. It's almost like if my skirt is short I should expect a man to poke his finger in there, because he paid his £25 to get in. 
The only way to guarantee a "ride" is go to a prostitute or fall in love  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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To be blunt, its n use blaming the police as she broke a law that they are paid to uphold. If you disagree with that law, then, as someone said earlier, lobby your mp to get it changed! Until such a time, it is stil a crime and she knew she was breaking it! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Lobby MPs?
MPs are not wanting to rock the boat. Even if they did, there is the whip system to keep career politicians in check. They rarely have a free vote.
It's not just MPs anyway, but the house of lords and the hereditary peers, and the bishops from the church of England.
Some of their lordships are great, like Helena Kennedy, but would many of these multi-millionaires who are also related to the queen be sympathetic to 'working' girls.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Lobby MPs?
MPs are not wanting to rock the boat. Even if they did, there is the whip system to keep career politicians in check. They rarely have a free vote.
It's not just MPs anyway, but the house of lords and the hereditary peers, and the bishops from the church of England.
Some of their lordships are great, like Helena Kennedy, but would many of these multi-millionaires who are also related to the queen be sympathetic to 'working' girls.
"
They should be...bet most of them have paid an escort or two a visit at some point |
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"Lobby MPs?
MPs are not wanting to rock the boat. Even if they did, there is the whip system to keep career politicians in check. They rarely have a free vote.
It's not just MPs anyway, but the house of lords and the hereditary peers, and the bishops from the church of England.
Some of their lordships are great, like Helena Kennedy, but would many of these multi-millionaires who are also related to the queen be sympathetic to 'working' girls.
They should be...bet most of them have paid an escort or two a visit at some point "
Damn right KoK, MP's and lords are well documented for paying for 'visits'...that lot are just as kinky as us two lmao |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Lobby MPs?
MPs are not wanting to rock the boat. Even if they did, there is the whip system to keep career politicians in check. They rarely have a free vote.
It's not just MPs anyway, but the house of lords and the hereditary peers, and the bishops from the church of England.
Some of their lordships are great, like Helena Kennedy, but would many of these multi-millionaires who are also related to the queen be sympathetic to 'working' girls.
They should be...bet most of them have paid an escort or two a visit at some point "
Couldn't possibility comment. I've no experience of what goes on in their all male boarding schools.
No female MPs till 1919, so not much demand for female lavatories.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Lobby MPs?
MPs are not wanting to rock the boat. Even if they did, there is the whip system to keep career politicians in check. They rarely have a free vote.
It's not just MPs anyway, but the house of lords and the hereditary peers, and the bishops from the church of England.
Some of their lordships are great, like Helena Kennedy, but would many of these multi-millionaires who are also related to the queen be sympathetic to 'working' girls.
They should be...bet most of them have paid an escort or two a visit at some point
Damn right KoK, MP's and lords are well documented for paying for 'visits'...that lot are just as kinky as us two lmao "
Yep, and a Domme or two tucked away I bet...we're just more honest  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Sorry again Mr Gemmini, but the attitude displayed here about paying for club entry, and therefore "all rides are free" mentality, is likening the experience to a visit to a brothel. It's almost like if my skirt is short I should expect a man to poke his finger in there, because he paid his £25 to get in.
The only way to guarantee a "ride" is go to a prostitute or fall in love "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why should I go out everyday and work when they can break the law and make millions.
Let her fucking rot.
Moan the polis."
But, she was working as well. After all, isn't it said to be the oldest profession? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Nope I don't care seems the ones with club veries are making the most noise  must of hit an nerve !!!!
Never been to a club in my life and don't expect I ever will."
You should try it sometime. Think of all those intelligent, kind, caring, feminine ladies you are missing out on. The kind of ladies who set the standards here, both in their looks and characters. The resounding altruism they have. |
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It's against the law so we can't argue much with the proceedings.
However we can argue whether it should be criminal.
Sticking purely to this case I can't see any victims in this crime therefore I see no point in making it illegal.
In fact most of the arguments against tend to support legalising it
Guys will always want sex and sadly have to pay for it.
Women will always be around who need money and can supply said services
Why shouldn't they be able to get together and solve their problems.
As long as it is a personal choice I see nothing wrong with that
If someone wants to set up an agency to sell it then that's business.
By legalising it, we can tax it and license it to ensure girls safety and hygiene.
It seems incredible to me that some deluded souls think we can ban it. Best of luck with that one.
I know that drugs and violence are common in that world but that is surely largely due to it's underground nature.
A proper licensed sex industry would drive out the gangsters and the junkies etc.
Who knows it could even become a tourist attraction and bring money to an area. |
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"It's against the law so we can't argue much with the proceedings.
However we can argue whether it should be criminal.
Sticking purely to this case I can't see any victims in this crime therefore I see no point in making it illegal.
In fact most of the arguments against tend to support legalising it
Guys will always want sex and sadly have to pay for it.
Women will always be around who need money and can supply said services
Why shouldn't they be able to get together and solve their problems.
As long as it is a personal choice I see nothing wrong with that
If someone wants to set up an agency to sell it then that's business.
By legalising it, we can tax it and license it to ensure girls safety and hygiene.
It seems incredible to me that some deluded souls think we can ban it. Best of luck with that one.
I know that drugs and violence are common in that world but that is surely largely due to it's underground nature.
A proper licensed sex industry would drive out the gangsters and the junkies etc.
Who knows it could even become a tourist attraction and bring money to an area. "
well said that man ... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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so if prostitution is legalised how long wil it be before the health and safety wankers fuck it up (if you pardon the pun) and price it out of reach for some people |
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I think the issue in this particular case was that she was financially abusing the girls working for her as she was demanding most of their money.
I think legalising would make most sense as could be taxed n regulated. There are places where this is the case and it seems to work fairly well. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We can't blame the police, who are just doing their job, it is the sentencing that we should question. Is it right that this woman got five years for immoral earnings while Stuart Hall got fifteen months? The clue is in the word 'earnings' the state has always taken a harder line on crimes against the establishment or property than those against citizens. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"We can't blame the police, who are just doing their job, it is the sentencing that we should question. Is it right that this woman got five years for immoral earnings while Stuart Hall got fifteen months? The clue is in the word 'earnings' the state has always taken a harder line on crimes against the establishment or property than those against citizens."
Agreed. Heaven forbid if the state didn't raise enough money for MPs moats and duck ponds. Their foreign trips and expenses. The monarchy in unparalleled luxury. Nuclear weapons.
Although she did have an accomplice, I wonder if a man would have got as long as five years, had it been a man in charge? Her male companion has been able to use his army record as 'good' character. She doesn't have any army experience, maybe like many women of her generation.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"In my experience everyone pays for a social night at these clubs, with buffet and soft drinks included. deluded if one thinks that £25 or £30 entitles you to sex anywhere other than with a prostitute. "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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She should have paid her taxes. Although difficult when operating an illegal business. Catch 22. But he ho she will gain some notoriety from this and I'm sure her services will be even more in demand when she gets oot x |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
This is part of the 'clean up Scotland' campaign that's been going on for some time now.
Closing down sauna/ massage places in the big cities; clamping down on girls working from flats; stricter controls on clubs (Fox St was mentioned recently) etc. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Haven't read all the info on this case. Police and government tend to say that the main reason for stamping out brothels is to stop trafficking and abuse and links to drug trade, none of which seems to apply here but she still gets 5 years.
As for clubs being like brothels... is that coming from someone who has never been to a club? It strikes me that a big difference is that no one at a club is paid to have sex with anyone else and presumably anyone having sex is doing so because they want to and not to earn any cash for it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Haven't read all the info on this case. Police and government tend to say that the main reason for stamping out brothels is to stop trafficking and abuse and links to drug trade, none of which seems to apply here but she still gets 5 years.
As for clubs being like brothels... is that coming from someone who has never been to a club? It strikes me that a big difference is that no one at a club is paid to have sex with anyone else and presumably anyone having sex is doing so because they want to and not to earn any cash for it."
Aaaah. So these clubs are free to get into then? No 'charge' at the door? You don't pay, say, £30 to get in to shag a lass? |
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"
Aaaah. So these clubs are free to get into then? No 'charge' at the door? You don't pay, say, £30 to get in to shag a lass?"
Oh so if I went to a club I have to shag someone just because they pay to get in!!!!! Really |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Aaaah. So these clubs are free to get into then? No 'charge' at the door? You don't pay, say, £30 to get in to shag a lass?
Oh so if I went to a club I have to shag someone just because they pay to get in!!!!! Really "
Not at all. I'm just curious as to what the law would be if a 'brothel' charged at the door instead of handing cash to the lass! Maybe i worded it wrong! |
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"
Aaaah. So these clubs are free to get into then? No 'charge' at the door? You don't pay, say, £30 to get in to shag a lass?
Oh so if I went to a club I have to shag someone just because they pay to get in!!!!! Really
Not at all. I'm just curious as to what the law would be if a 'brothel' charged at the door instead of handing cash to the lass! Maybe i worded it wrong!"
Maybe the difference would be that they get paid to shag and don't have the choice..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Aaaah. So these clubs are free to get into then? No 'charge' at the door? You don't pay, say, £30 to get in to shag a lass?
Oh so if I went to a club I have to shag someone just because they pay to get in!!!!! Really
Not at all. I'm just curious as to what the law would be if a 'brothel' charged at the door instead of handing cash to the lass! Maybe i worded it wrong!
Maybe the difference would be that they get paid to shag and don't have the choice..... "
True! But what about the folks that DO shag in clubs? Are they paying for sex by paying the entry fee? I personally haven't been to a club, (too shy, lol), so i'm not sure about the ins n outs, (pardon the pun). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Sorry any money handed over in swinging clubs or brothels are very wrong in my eyes in my job I would never dream of visiting these places I think our force takes enough stick & if they were to be raided who's to say who's getting the proceeds ? Owners ? Or girls at gangbangs ?? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Aaaah. So these clubs are free to get into then? No 'charge' at the door? You don't pay, say, £30 to get in to shag a lass?
Oh so if I went to a club I have to shag someone just because they pay to get in!!!!! Really
Not at all. I'm just curious as to what the law would be if a 'brothel' charged at the door instead of handing cash to the lass! Maybe i worded it wrong!
Maybe the difference would be that they get paid to shag and don't have the choice..... "
Escorts always have a choice and can turn away anyone they don't want to 'shag'  |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Sorry any money handed over in swinging clubs or brothels are very wrong in my eyes in my job I would never dream of visiting these places I think our force takes enough stick & if they were to be raided who's to say who's getting the proceeds ? Owners ? Or girls at gangbangs ??
Are you seriously saying that the women that go to clubs are getting payed to shag ??? "
I doubt that very much. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Are you seriously saying that the women that go to clubs are getting payed to shag ???
Indeed I'm not saying that but how would owners explain why people are having sex everywhere ? but then again you just pay for the social side of things buffet soft drinks & electricity I'm sure courts would agree its not illegal |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Are you seriously saying that the women that go to clubs are getting payed to shag ???
..............I'm sure courts would agree its not illegal "
Regardless, I think this is a matter we shouldn't get the courts involved in. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"MP's have fucked the country for years and got big pensions and pay offs for it
And this relates to the posting, because?
Fucking.....money....
Your a smart guy, figure it out "
Sometimes I would not really like to work anything out, but maybe try, if I can, for people to spell things out to me. Rather than just a few words, or a one liner - which there is nothing wrong with that - but for maybe some people to say why they agree or disagree, so a bit more of a debate can happen. For alternative views to be aired or for someone to play Devil's advocate.
Some of us might like to play the Devil and be naughty! hehe |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Aaaah. So these clubs are free to get into then? No 'charge' at the door? You don't pay, say, £30 to get in to shag a lass?"
Going to a club later today and quite happy to pay the £10 admission whether I 'shag a lass' or not and I don't expect that just because I paid to get in to the club that i am therefor entitled to 'shags' |
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"Aaaah. So these clubs are free to get into then? No 'charge' at the door? You don't pay, say, £30 to get in to shag a lass?
Going to a club later today and quite happy to pay the £10 admission whether I 'shag a lass' or not and I don't expect that just because I paid to get in to the club that i am therefor entitled to 'shags'"
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By *etLikeMan
over a year ago
most fundamental aspects |
"Prostitution isnt illegal.....
But a number of related activities, including soliciting in a public place, kerb crawling, owning or managing a brothel, pimping and pandering, are "
I think this is what saddens me about the case in question. The couple evaded tax, yet as already said, could hardly call up HMRC and say "hi, I'd like to register a brothel"
In the eyes of the law, a girl operating alone from a flat is within the law. As soon as she is joined by another adult who may be taking the money, also having sex for money, or just there as a form of "safety in numbers" it automatically becomes a brothel.
If working girls were brought into the tax system and allowed to work in regulated premises, there would be far fewer attacks on them, the tax system would benefit and society overall might understand that sex is not a bad word. After all, many of us are judged more harshly for our chosen lifestyles because of this insinuation that anything other than vanilla monogamy is somehow fair game to be attacked as deviant behaviour. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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" After all, many of us are judged more harshly for our chosen lifestyles "
Yes I know all about that. Being attacked, judged and dealing with the moral police, when my meets don't concern them - and they feel the need to go on and on, saying how I should do this and do that. Arrange my meets - and put what I want to do, and my own pleasure - before theirs. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
Killjoy MacAskill and his lackey Stephen House are quite clear about this.
Whilst there's the possibility that underagers nor trafficked women or anyone else who might be vulnerable are involved, they will intervene as and when they see fit and, if they trawl a few (or lots of) women who aren't vulnerable - that's just a bonus. |
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