FabSwingers.com > Forums > Scotland > re: independence
re: independence
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"I was always told never trust a fish because they are slippery devils... so I cant trust a Salmon and a Sturgeon :P" The  | |||
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"You are not voting for Salmond to become King of Scotland FFS. You are voting for independance. Who leads an Independant scotland would be decided at that time. " We wont get to. Salmond already thinks he is lol | |||
"At least it will be by our own hand which is the whole point!" That sounds like the definition of suicide. | |||
"Regarding independence for scotland, would you really trust Alex Salmond, or Nicola Sturgeon, a woman who has defended a benefit fraudster in the courts twice, personally speaking I wouldnt trust them as far as I could throw them " Yip lets stay with and trust the con-dem millionaires and watch while they do there damdest to turn us into a 3rd world country,also the snp have done more for the working class in a few yrs than labour did in a generation il be voting for independence . | |||
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"Independence will reduce Scotland to the status of a 3rd world country. Unless of course you believe in "wee eck" where we can live on whisky, oil, which we don't own anyway and shortbread! Bollocks. " Get your facts right. We do own the revenue from any oil within our boundaries. Dont believe the no campaigners who say we dont. International law. So its bollocks to your post lol | |||
"Regarding independence for scotland, would you really trust Alex Salmond, or Nicola Sturgeon, a woman who has defended a benefit fraudster in the courts twice, personally speaking I wouldnt trust them as far as I could throw them " would you trust Blair brown Cameron millaband ect god save us fae self Hating scots | |||
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"oil revenue is all very well but when the well runs dry what do we do then and if you want independence then you will need to join the Euro as the UK constitution will not allow us to retain sterling, the Euro which every other country wishes never existed. Independence will guarantee inflation beyond belief, I would rather trust a double glazing salesman than that wee fat toad Salmond" We only need to join the euro if we join the EU. If we dont join the EU we can kick out all the eastern europeans etc and decide who we let into our own country. By the time the well runs dry we will have earned 50 billion in revenue which can be used to create new employment. We would be the most asset rich counrty in Europe. Thats an independant fact | |||
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"so, you would not trust Alex or Nicola????? But, you trust Cameron and Clegg or Milliband? Get a grip!!! Its about being an independent country nothing to do with SNP, get that into your heads!!!!!!NOTHING!!!!! " . Totally agree well said | |||
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"It kind of pisses me off that some people would continue to let people suffer and die, just because they don't like Alex Salmond. Oh but thats right, it's not happening to you, so why should you care?" The reality is, salmonds policies are causing people to suffer and die. The council tax freeze, free prescriptions, and free higher education is taking money away from the most vulnerable in society and giving it to others who don't have the same need | |||
"It kind of pisses me off that some people would continue to let people suffer and die, just because they don't like Alex Salmond. Oh but thats right, it's not happening to you, so why should you care?" The reality is, salmonds policies are causing people to suffer and die. The council tax freeze, free prescriptions, and free higher education is taking money away from the most vulnerable in society and giving it to others who don't have the same need | |||
"It kind of pisses me off that some people would continue to let people suffer and die, just because they don't like Alex Salmond. Oh but thats right, it's not happening to you, so why should you care? The reality is, salmonds policies are causing people to suffer and die. The council tax freeze, free prescriptions, and free higher education is taking money away from the most vulnerable in society and giving it to others who don't have the same need" You are being ironic/sarcastic i take it. (never can tell the difference) | |||
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"as far as my post is concerned, i still think Nicola Sturgeon, was wrong to defend someone who deliberately and fraudulently claimed money he wasn't entitled to, and got off with both charges because Nicola Sturgeon, defended this crook!! and thats what he was, pure and simple- crooks shouldnt go crawling to their MP for support, having flouted the law, no question this fraudster should have got jail time" He did, he got two years. It was his second conviction. He got 4 years previously for stealing from the Post Office he ran. | |||
"I'm assuming you don't have any idea of the (lack of) care for those who really need it?" Enlighten me. | |||
"I'm assuming you don't have any idea of the (lack of) care for those who really need it? Enlighten me." Quite interested myself actually, do enlighten us. | |||
"At least it will be by our own hand which is the whole point! That sounds like the definition of suicide." Obviously you haven't understood what i said! | |||
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"I really dont know enough about it to commit to saying confidently, yes it will be fantastic if we become independant. Maybe if someone listed a few other countries that are and are doing brilliantly because they are i may understand the potential of it better?" The UK has a defecit of 6% on GDP. Norway has a surplus of 10%. They are a small nation . But of course the average Scotsman is incapable of running their own country. We need the public schoolboys from the home counties to keep us right. Well at least thats their argument | |||
"I really dont know enough about it to commit to saying confidently, yes it will be fantastic if we become independant. Maybe if someone listed a few other countries that are and are doing brilliantly because they are i may understand the potential of it better? The UK has a defecit of 6% on GDP. Norway has a surplus of 10%. They are a small nation . But of course the average Scotsman is incapable of running their own country. We need the public schoolboys from the home counties to keep us right. Well at least thats their argument" I would seriously question that assertion....look at recent history and the percentage of Scots who have held high office in cabinet. Quite impressive. | |||
"I really dont know enough about it to commit to saying confidently, yes it will be fantastic if we become independant. Maybe if someone listed a few other countries that are and are doing brilliantly because they are i may understand the potential of it better? The UK has a defecit of 6% on GDP. Norway has a surplus of 10%. They are a small nation . But of course the average Scotsman is incapable of running their own country. We need the public schoolboys from the home counties to keep us right. Well at least thats their argument I would seriously question that assertion....look at recent history and the percentage of Scots who have held high office in cabinet. Quite impressive." I was being sarcastic | |||
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"At least it will be by our own hand which is the whole point! That sounds like the definition of suicide. Obviously you haven't understood what i said!" I understood perfectly. | |||
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"Till you just keep talking the biggest pile of shite on this subject, you're the one claiming to be a true and genuine scot but you dont give a fuck about what's best for the country and just want to vote yes to spite the english even if does mean the ruin of scotland! Not giving a fuck about the future stability of your nation and a let it die just to fuck over the english attitude isn't a true and genuine scotsman! "Well said | |||
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"The SNP and the yes campaign have nothing to do with getting the english out, a lot of the members come from south of the border and want to fight for Scotland because they believe we can be independent. There is no place for racism in Scotland. None at all." . Totally agree with you ms p w can't stand the anti English bullshite | |||
"You know we built the best of everything in every profession centuries ago why can't it be done again. SNP and independence all the way" Did we?Did we really ? Gosh. | |||
"oil revenue is all very well but when the well runs dry what do we do then and if you want independence then you will need to join the Euro as the UK constitution will not allow us to retain sterling, the Euro which every other country wishes never existed. Independence will guarantee inflation beyond belief, I would rather trust a double glazing salesman than that wee fat toad Salmond We only need to join the euro if we join the EU. If we dont join the EU we can kick out all the eastern europeans etc and decide who we let into our own country. By the time the well runs dry we will have earned 50 billion in revenue which can be used to create new employment. We would be the most asset rich counrty in Europe. Thats an independant fact" These would the same Eastern Europeans that Alex Salmond is getting ready to welcome even more of when Bulgaria joins the EU in a month or so? 'New Scots' I think he called them? Or in other words, 'people who will hopefully vote for me if I welcome them with open arms'? Would those be the ones you said we can kick out? Yeah, doesn't look like Alex Salmond is planning on doing that anytime soon... | |||
"A NO vote means you have done NOTHING. A NO vote means you will get NOTHING. A NO vote means you deserve NOTHING." What utter tub-thumping nonsense! This is the kind of sensationalist garbage that the SNP is brilliant at pumping out. Along with their favourite word, scaremongering. Let me ask you something. Lets assume the SNP win the vote, Independence goes ahead and its the day after our officially independence day, can you tell us EXACTLY how your life will have changed? WHat happens if you've been sold a dummy by the SNP and taxes have to go up, the oil revenue has to be adjusted down the way, public sector cuts have to be made but its ok, we're in charge of our own destiny! Its by our own hand so that makes it ok? I run my own business and believe me, being in charge of your own destiny can be a f***ing scary place sometimes, The odd month when its been a bit quiet and you can't pay yourself (or at least not as much as you need to), I've never sat there, looked at the bills with a big smile on my face and though 'its ok though, I'M in control here! | |||
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"A NO vote means you have done NOTHING. A NO vote means you will get NOTHING. A NO vote means you deserve NOTHING. What utter tub-thumping nonsense! This is the kind of sensationalist garbage that the SNP is brilliant at pumping out. Along with their favourite word, scaremongering. Let me ask you something. Lets assume the SNP win the vote, Independence goes ahead and its the day after our officially independence day, can you tell us EXACTLY how your life will have changed? WHat happens if you've been sold a dummy by the SNP and taxes have to go up, the oil revenue has to be adjusted down the way, public sector cuts have to be made but its ok, we're in charge of our own destiny! Its by our own hand so that makes it ok? I run my own business and believe me, being in charge of your own destiny can be a f***ing scary place sometimes, The odd month when its been a bit quiet and you can't pay yourself (or at least not as much as you need to), I've never sat there, looked at the bills with a big smile on my face and though 'its ok though, I'M in control here!"
Well said | |||
"I'm assuming you don't have any idea of the (lack of) care for those who really need it? Enlighten me. Quite interested myself actually, do enlighten us." I'm waiting for the explanation of this as well. | |||
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".............its the only way " Look how well it's suited Iceland, Ireland and Cyprus. | |||
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"and norway and holland and sweden and denmark , its amazing how successful a country can be once the shackles from the fag end of the english empire have been broken . " I wasn't aware Norway and Holland and Sweden and Denmark had ever been part of the 'English' empire, but there you go, eh? | |||
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"that is why they are sussesful countrys , because they are lucky not to have much to do with england , "There are lots of successful countries which have had nothing to do with England. The reason standards of living/ happiness quotient in Scandinavian countries is so good, is because of very high taxes - as you'll have seen if you've ever tried to take out a mortgage on a bevvy in Bergen or a swally in Stockholm. | |||
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"........... no country on the planet freely gives its money away to another country in the hope that they might give us some of it back , and expect us to be grateful for it .......... "That of course is to completely, perhaps deliberately, misunderstand Joel Barnett's legacy. | |||
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"........ Exporting electricity south is not an issue at current, and once the high speed train is built there are plans to transport water to the south east. ........." Why wait for HS2? Does water go off in transit? | |||
"........ Exporting electricity south is not an issue at current, and once the high speed train is built there are plans to transport water to the south east. ......... Why wait for HS2? Does water go off in transit?" Well if we don't wait for the train they have to build one big ass pipeline. From what I gather they were going to have trains dedicated to transporting water. | |||
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"........ Exporting electricity south is not an issue at current, and once the high speed train is built there are plans to transport water to the south east. ......... Why wait for HS2? Does water go off in transit? Well if we don't wait for the train they have to build one big ass pipeline. From what I gather they were going to have trains dedicated to transporting water. " You've been listening to too much Alex (baw-face) Neil. | |||
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"rather have alex looking out for us than posh dave ,........." You'll soon have neither. | |||
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"The SNP and the yes campaign have nothing to do with getting the english out, a lot of the members come from south of the border and want to fight for Scotland because they believe we can be independent. There is no place for racism in Scotland. None at all." | |||
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"Absolutely correct. The UK isn't working any more, it's a shambles. It served a purpose for many years but it's time to move on now. Could things really be any worse with Independence? Do we really want to continue to be governed by that bunch of numpties Cameron-Clegg-Milliband? Do we really want another 10/20/30 years of the same? I certainly don't. The difference between Scotland and England/Wales is that in Scotland we have a choice. Unfortunately for them England/Wales is stuck with the Cameron-Clegg-Milliband bunch. I hope Scotland votes YES for Independence, but I don't expect it will, because as the referendum gets closer the tabloids will start the usual campaign of negative scare tactics, the usual one-sided stories of how England subsidises Scotland, when in reality Scotland subsidises England! Ask yourself this: If Scotland is such a drain on the UK economy why does the Westminster government put up such a fight to stop us becoming independent? The truth is that the UK economy would be even more broke without Scotlands input. Don't listen to the scaremongers, Scotland is very capable of looking after it's own affairs." Here here .... Time to believe in ourselves again!!! | |||
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"Check out what the SNP have planned for "The Homecoming" in 2014(the last one being an utter disaster). One of the "highlights" is a renactment of the Battle of Bannockburn !!! Jesus H Christ . " Eck'll probably manage to lose that too. | |||
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"Makes a change from being reminded about 1966 & 2003. This is all part of our history and heritage. There is nothing to be ashamed of in celebrating & recognising bannock burn. Rightly so we do it on Remembrance Day why not for home coming. " rembembering it and doing a reanactment are two very different things. Thousands died there.seems pretty poor taste. Also to hold it 3mmths before the vote seems shameless. And who pays for it ? Us.the last one was a huge financial disaster. | |||
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"Makes a change from being reminded about 1966 & 2003. This is all part of our history and heritage. There is nothing to be ashamed of in celebrating & recognising bannock burn. Rightly so we do it on Remembrance Day why not for home coming. rembembering it and doing a reanactment are two very different things. Thousands died there.seems pretty poor taste. Also to hold it 3mmths before the vote seems shameless. And who pays for it ? Us.the last one was a huge financial disaster. " whats shameless is what they done, how they went about the highland clearances that's what's shameless. | |||
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"Scotland has no deficit , for 300 years we have been lorded over and ruled from london , they are the bunch of dafties that have managed to run up a huge deficit , its all theirs , not a single penny of it was run up by Scotland , not a single penny of it needs to be paid back by Scotland . its going to be so funny watching the south trying to pay off their debts without the oil revenues "You're trolling right? No-one can be that narrow minded in this day and age surely? | |||
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"as far as my post is concerned, i still think Nicola Sturgeon, was wrong to defend someone who deliberately and fraudulently claimed money he wasn't entitled to, and got off with both charges because Nicola Sturgeon, defended this crook!! and thats what he was, pure and simple- crooks shouldnt go crawling to their MP for support, having flouted the law, no question this fraudster should have got jail time" Is your post about independence or this? I'm confused  | |||
"nothing narrow minded about it , westminster called the shots for 300 years , westminster made a total fuck up of things , but as soon as Scotland wants freedom then the debt becomes ours ? its certianly a neet con trick worthy of the best snake oil salesmen on the planet ,hope the people of Scotland wont be too gullable as toget taken in by it "Part of the national debt is Scotlands. I think it currently runs at around 40k per head of population and rising. Anyone who has ever used a single public service is part cause of it. It's been building up since the end of WW2 and has become worse due to financial mismanagement by politicians that WE elected. So you're getting part of it! You cant wash your hands and say you weren't part of it because it happened in London. | |||
"in all honesty if being an independant scotland means being associated with some of the muppets spouting nonsense here am off to azerbajahn find a shady spot and sell coconuts "Make me a piña colada then cause I'm with ya in that!!! Makes we wanna vote no simply to annoy him  | |||
"Scotland has no deficit , for 300 years we have been lorded over and ruled from london , they are the bunch of dafties that have managed to run up a huge deficit , its all theirs , not a single penny of it was run up by Scotland , not a single penny of it needs to be paid back by Scotland . its going to be so funny watching the south trying to pay off their debts without the oil revenues "Sorry to butt in on a private tragedy, but as a Scotland loving Englander with a wee dram of Scottish blood, who spent most of his life in Scotlands 2nd capital (Blackpool ) I thought I'd stick my two penny worth in.
Should Scotland opt for independence there will be many pro's and quite a lot of con's. I've read this whole thread and a lot of the points made by the pro independence people are quite valid on face value, but dig a little deeper and they soon become threadbare.
Everyone should be entitled to self determination, but where would that leave Scotland? Salmond has made it clear that he wants to retain EU membership so when you have swapped London for Brussels how independent would you really be? What is happening in Cyprus should be a big wake up call to any ideas of re-joining the EU as a small independent country.
So you could go it alone, 50 billion in oil revenue would last say 5 years (assuming you start with a clean piece of paper with no inherited debt) then what? Parts of Scotland (like England) have a massive benefit culture problem so either swingeing cuts or heavy tax hikes will be the only way. The days of small countries (or even large ones) borrowing to the hilt are rapidly coming to and end.
Scotland's only hope as an independent nation would be to stay out of the EU. and become a low tax offshore economy with its own currency and central bank.
It would need a big change in thinking, and some good Scottish prudence rather than Mediterranean greed and corruption but it could be done.
Oh and by the way, the "dafties" who ran up the UK deficit were both SCOTTISH. | |||
But when all is said and done it will be the southern folk that will set us free believe it or not . was chatting to a bloke in a pub in Scrabster last week , he was english and had a remarcable view of Scotls and all thing scottish , he cant waite to get rid of the lot of us for never has such a race of scroungers ever excisted before on the planet as us Scots . no matter how many folk living in Scotland who are desperate to still be ruled by the south happen to be , there are far far many more folk accross the border who are desperate to get shot of us , but keep the oil , ofcourse | |||
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"Scotland has no deficit , for 300 years we have been lorded over and ruled from london , they are the bunch of dafties that have managed to run up a huge deficit , its all theirs , not a single penny of it was run up by Scotland , not a single penny of it needs to be paid back by Scotland . its going to be so funny watching the south trying to pay off their debts without the oil revenues
You're trolling right? No-one can be that narrow minded in this day and age surely?"Oh yes they can. Welcome to the fantasy world of the cybernats. | |||
"Makes a change from being reminded about 1966 & 2003. This is all part of our history and heritage. There is nothing to be ashamed of in celebrating & recognising bannock burn. Rightly so we do it on Remembrance Day why not for home coming. rembembering it and doing a reanactment are two very different things. Thousands died there.seems pretty poor taste. Also to hold it 3mmths before the vote seems shameless. And who pays for it ? Us.the last one was a huge financial disaster. whats shameless is what they done, how they went about the highland clearances that's what's shameless." The Clearances was perpetrated BY Scots ON Scots. | |||
"there has never ever been a government in westminster ruling my life that i have ever been so misguided as to have voted for them .who inScotland would ever vote for a southern public school party to rule them from another country ?
But when all is said and done it will be the southern folk that will set us free believe it or not . was chatting to a bloke in a pub in Scrabster last week , he was english and had a remarcable view of Scotls and all thing scottish , he cant waite to get rid of the lot of us for never has such a race of scroungers ever excisted before on the planet as us Scots . no matter how many folk living in Scotland who are desperate to still be ruled by the south happen to be , there are far far many more folk accross the border who are desperate to get shot of us , but keep the oil , ofcourse "One random englishman,,ehh in a pub? Maybe a bit pished into the bargain? Not exactly swaying the vote is it.  | |||
"there has never ever been a government in westminster ruling my life that i have ever been so misguided as to have voted for them .who inScotland would ever vote for a southern public school party to rule them from another country ?
But when all is said and done it will be the southern folk that will set us free believe it or not . was chatting to a bloke in a pub in Scrabster last week , he was english and had a remarcable view of Scotls and all thing scottish , he cant waite to get rid of the lot of us for never has such a race of scroungers ever excisted before on the planet as us Scots . no matter how many folk living in Scotland who are desperate to still be ruled by the south happen to be , there are far far many more folk accross the border who are desperate to get shot of us , but keep the oil , ofcourse
One random englishman,,ehh in a pub? Maybe a bit pished into the bargain?
Not exactly swaying the vote is it. "Just another cybernat clutching at straws. | |||
"there has never ever been a government in westminster ruling my life that i have ever been so misguided as to have voted for them .who inScotland would ever vote for a southern public school party to rule them from another country ?
But when all is said and done it will be the southern folk that will set us free believe it or not . was chatting to a bloke in a pub in Scrabster last week , he was english and had a remarcable view of Scotls and all thing scottish , he cant waite to get rid of the lot of us for never has such a race of scroungers ever excisted before on the planet as us Scots . no matter how many folk living in Scotland who are desperate to still be ruled by the south happen to be , there are far far many more folk accross the border who are desperate to get shot of us , but keep the oil , ofcourse "Firstly England would have only ever had one Labour government since WW2 if it wasn't for Scottish and Welsh Labour voters. So who foisted what on who? As for getting shot of Scotland I for one and most level headed English would be horrified at the thought. While we have had a few ups and downs our union is of equals and long may it continue in spite of a few xenophobes on both sides of the border. Stirling Bridge, Bannockburn, The Boyne, and Culloden are all ancient history, and together we have defeated Bonaparte, Kaiser Bill, and Hitler, we even managed to get rid of a French usurper. So lets celebrate what we have achieved together and look forward to a future rather than living in the past. As for the oil? England doesn't really need it in the long term. Production has been declining for a while now and will eventually run out, while the shale gas bonanza in Lancashire will more than cover any losses. | |||
"there has never ever been a government in westminster ruling my life that i have ever been so misguided as to have voted for them .who inScotland would ever vote for a southern public school party to rule them from another country ?
But when all is said and done it will be the southern folk that will set us free believe it or not . was chatting to a bloke in a pub in Scrabster last week , he was english and had a remarcable view of Scotls and all thing scottish , he cant waite to get rid of the lot of us for never has such a race of scroungers ever excisted before on the planet as us Scots . no matter how many folk living in Scotland who are desperate to still be ruled by the south happen to be , there are far far many more folk accross the border who are desperate to get shot of us , but keep the oil , ofcourse
One random englishman,,ehh in a pub? Maybe a bit pished into the bargain?
Not exactly swaying the vote is it.
Just another cybernat clutching at straws."Ehh ? | |||
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"there has never ever been a government in westminster ruling my life that i have ever been so misguided as to have voted for them .who inScotland would ever vote for a southern public school party to rule them from another country ?
But when all is said and done it will be the southern folk that will set us free believe it or not . was chatting to a bloke in a pub in Scrabster last week , he was english and had a remarcable view of Scotls and all thing scottish , he cant waite to get rid of the lot of us for never has such a race of scroungers ever excisted before on the planet as us Scots . no matter how many folk living in Scotland who are desperate to still be ruled by the south happen to be , there are far far many more folk accross the border who are desperate to get shot of us , but keep the oil , ofcourse
One random englishman,,ehh in a pub? Maybe a bit pished into the bargain?
Not exactly swaying the vote is it.
Just another cybernat clutching at straws.
Ehh ?"As you say, he found one random Englishman and has tried to build a case on the basis of that experience. Straw clutching at its worst. | |||
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its fact , a larger proportion of the population from the south want shot of us than the proportion of the population residing here in the north that is desperate for the continuance of rule from london | |||
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"the anti English xenophobia from till is simply racism cloaked as patriotism and on any other thread would be rightly removed . " Xenophobic perhaps but not racist. | |||
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