FabSwingers.com > Forums > Scotland > Would it be morally wrong for nurses to strike?
Would it be morally wrong for nurses to strike?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Reading an article online..states that nearly 70% of nursing staff in Scotland would support strike action. Thoughts?
https://nursingnotes.co.uk/news/workforce/poll-suggests-scotlands-nursing-staff-support-strike-action/
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Everyone should have the right to strike.
If the pay and conditions are crap.just because they are a public service the government have them over a barrel.
In my opinion that is lol |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Everyone should have the right to strike.
If the pay and conditions are crap.just because they are a public service the government have them over a barrel.
In my opinion that is lol"
Yeah, think because of the selfless image portrayed of the procession, the general public can often have a different view.
Mr 100% agrees with you. I'm unsure. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No.
People need to stand up for themselves and future generations.
The government are taking advantage of the NHS workers.
The Tories are hell bent on privatisation of the NHS. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Everyone should have the right to strike.
If the pay and conditions are crap.just because they are a public service the government have them over a barrel.
In my opinion that is lol
Yeah, think because of the selfless image portrayed of the procession, the general public can often have a different view.
Mr 100% agrees with you. I'm unsure."
why are you unsure miss? |
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Tbh a lot of the time certain wards are run by skeleton staff anyway the army etc would have to get sent in to help if they did, personally I would support strike action but I know for a fact one of my closest friends works in high dependency and she would never go out on strike she cares too much |
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However if other unions come together in other industries went on strike to support hospital staff eg rail, buses, manufacturing companies, haulage companies, shops,, communications workers staff, teachers, etc were all to down tools once a week for a few weeks and stop that might serve a better purpose |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Everyone should have the right to strike.
If the pay and conditions are crap.just because they are a public service the government have them over a barrel.
In my opinion that is lol
Yeah, think because of the selfless image portrayed of the procession, the general public can often have a different view.
Mr 100% agrees with you. I'm unsure.why are you unsure miss?"
Thinking about the implications for patients. Actually having to walk away from someone in need and thinking of innocent people who would suffer.
I can see why it's justified though. They've had the piss taken out of them for years. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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And that's why they wouldn't.but...that dosnt make it right?
Oh a train driver can fight for what they are worth..but a highly trained nurse that faces life ir death situations orob on a daily basis can't?
Seems really unfair. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"And that's why they wouldn't.but...that dosnt make it right?
Oh a train driver can fight for what they are worth..but a highly trained nurse that faces life ir death situations orob on a daily basis can't?
Seems really unfair."
I agree with you.
I just think in the situation myself I would find it incredibly hard to do. But then that's what the government are counting on. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Totally.its a shame as they couldn't really do what the police force are doing either as in work to rule...my cousin is a ward sister who was due for retirement but just couldn't bring herself to leave her wards in such a dire state with hardly no staff so she's staying on until she feels able to leave without the guilt. |
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"And that's why they wouldn't.but...that dosnt make it right?
Oh a train driver can fight for what they are worth..but a highly trained nurse that faces life ir death situations orob on a daily basis can't?
Seems really unfair.
I agree with you.
I just think in the situation myself I would find it incredibly hard to do. But then that's what the government are counting on."
Medical professionals tend not to strike in the way we generally think of strikes.
There are a number of alternative forms of industrial action available, work to rule is the normal option for nurses & docs.
Personally I think the question we should be asking is, is it morally wrong that medics have seen a 25-30% real terms cut in income since the tories came back in to power, while also seeing a reduction in staff numbers.
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I can remember striking over grading many years ago in London. I think there thankfully is a new breed of nurse unwilling to put up with the shit conditions and pay. The older ones are frankly tired, the ones in the middle have been shafted in terms of their pensions. I vote strike. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's hoping to have a knock-on effect for the younger generation of nurses as they are gonna say feck that there's no pay in that profession.. just like midwifes total shortage. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's a difficult one. My little ones mum is a nurse, ITU ward specifically and she gets 11.80 an hour on a normal shift, super market workers, bus drivers, bin men, street litter pickers are on more than that, not to say they don't deserve it, my point is it's a disgrace, they are literally dealing with peoples life.....if she does agency doing the same job she can get 48 an hour, why is the government happy to pay 48 an hour but not give them all a wage rise?
It's the same with my job, it's actually illegal for us to strike, it's against the law, so we have to take other actions such as working to rule, much much less effective but the only thing we can do as of now.
Personally, yes I think they should do it and as harsh as this sounds, if people die or become worse from lack of care, everyone knows it's not the medical staff thought specifically, they are just putting a firm foot down until they get the respect they deserve. Sadly people will suffer for that and hopefully the public will point fingers at them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's a difficult one. My little ones mum is a nurse, ITU ward specifically and she gets 11.80 an hour on a normal shift, super market workers, bus drivers, bin men, street litter pickers are on more than that, not to say they don't deserve it, my point is it's a disgrace, they are literally dealing with peoples life.....if she does agency doing the same job she can get 48 an hour, why is the government happy to pay 48 an hour but not give them all a wage rise?
It's the same with my job, it's actually illegal for us to strike, it's against the law, so we have to take other actions such as working to rule, much much less effective but the only thing we can do as of now.
Personally, yes I think they should do it and as harsh as this sounds, if people die or become worse from lack of care, everyone knows it's not the medical staff thought specifically, they are just putting a firm foot down until they get the respect they deserve. Sadly people will suffer for that and hopefully the public will point fingers at them."
Christ I need to spell check, I meant it's not there fault and the public will NOT point fingers at them. |
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Nurses and other hospital staff striking would be a lot more devastating than people think.
Support it or not would be based on the situation at the time.
But I think you'd find if they aranged a strike, they would still insist on a suitable number of people excempt exempt for it, so that peope in the hospital still got the care required and stillmake enough of an impact to be heard.
From what I've seen in the last year(ish) hospitals do tend to run on little to no staff at the weekend, so careful planning would avoid too many hassles for the NHS.
Sorry if that reads a bit disjointed.
Mandy |
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By *avie65Man
over a year ago
In the west. |
It would be right and I speak as someone who has been on strike nearly every year for the last 8 or so, until I didn't this year and that took a lot of thought and feeling like shite. I'm always on the picket line and vocal about the strike issues. I will add that the first time I went on strike was over 30 years ago in the days when all it took was a show of hands then you headed for home or the nearest pub.
Nurses have a lot of support in the wider community and they have a sense of duty.
It is the sense of duty that, I think, will stop the majority of nurses striking.
As for the support they will still have it but there will always be gadgies and elements of the press that are very vocal about them striking but they will forget over time.
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By *bcums3Couple
over a year ago
lanarkshire |
As much as a lot of us are in agreement, it may not be viable for most…and a lot of us will be sent somewhere else to help the already struggling areas that have no other options to keep working |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think they have every right to strike but also a duty of care to patients, so I would say all nurses not in critical roles like ICU or A&E should strike if they feel its the right thing to do, but it should never be allowed to get to that. |
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It’s a tough call, as going on strike will cause a media frenzy and will be the minority that instantly turn to anger because a relative or loved one is not getting the care and support as nurses have gone on strike.
However I’d fully back a strike as like any other career if your voice is not being heard and nothing is changing then the only other option is strike or find another career.
I’d fully support nurses striking the same as I would anyone who deserved to be heard and changes made.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"It's a difficult one. My little ones mum is a nurse, ITU ward specifically and she gets 11.80 an hour on a normal shift, super market workers, bus drivers, bin men, street litter pickers are on more than that, not to say they don't deserve it, my point is it's a disgrace, they are literally dealing with peoples life.....if she does agency doing the same job she can get 48 an hour, why is the government happy to pay 48 an hour but not give them all a wage rise?
It's the same with my job, it's actually illegal for us to strike, it's against the law, so we have to take other actions such as working to rule, much much less effective but the only thing we can do as of now.
Personally, yes I think they should do it and as harsh as this sounds, if people die or become worse from lack of care, everyone knows it's not the medical staff thought specifically, they are just putting a firm foot down until they get the respect they deserve. Sadly people will suffer for that and hopefully the public will point fingers at them."
My friend is a theatre nurse and she was saying the same last week about agency staff. Working alongside, same skill set and level of experience and she's getting considerably less. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I support the right of industrial action but I know many will not accept the NHS failing.
I would back any legitimate action but the noises from the government are any front line service will soon be banned from taking action. This government are hell bent on destroying all worker rights and widen the class and pay structure |
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When we (1970’s kids) grew up families could live comfortably on one wage. People were paid a fair days wage for a fair days work until companies got greedy. They started rewarding those at the top for reducing the wages of those below them. If nurses, policemen and women and firefighters feel the need for industrial action then this highlights a failed government and not society. There is an old Saint that we are born free and taxed to death but that was funny when it wasn’t so fuckin’ obvious. And if anyone thinks voting Tory makes sense then bite my shite. |
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Here’s an idea.
Give hospitals all the money they need without them begging. If we need to raise money to cover a shortfall let’s make it on defence. Can you imagine the PM coming onto our screens asking us to donate, do fun runs, the Race for Death sounds fitting, Stand up to Putin. They can fine money for war, invasions, planes and tanks but never for pensions, NHS, people on welfare. We live in communism disguised as democracy. |
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By *alcon43Woman
over a year ago
Paisley |
The NHS needs to start actually giving proper full time contracts to staff, stop using bank staff and agency staff. It’s not just nurses this applies to, it’s admin and support staff as well as other medical staff.
Staff are moved from other wards and aren’t familiar with patients. The QEUH has had dangerously low staffing levels recorded. This cannot be allowed to continue.
In the 90’s there was a P2000 project to train and recruit nurses and midwives and we are still not retaining enough of those in our hospitals. Millions was spent on buildings and staff in various universities in Scotland to increase the numbers of nurses.
Perhaps we need a national strike to support the public sector workers. The MPs vote on their own pay rises but don’t value those that we relied upon during covid and offer them a paltry pay rise that hardly covers the increased cost of living. |
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It's actually immoral to not pay them properly.
Lincslady was working last night in an understaffed ward where two staff members where from the uk and the rest africa...its not just pay its conditions and safety of staff and patients.
The tories have a lot to answer for here. |
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It is morally wrong for them to be underpaid and overworked, the gov are relying on them caring about patients to keep them going to work under increasingly difficult circumstances.
We should all support people who provide such a vital role and if they feel the need to stike then it should be a wake up call for everyone that it has gotten to this stage |
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"
The Tories are hell bent on privatisation of the NHS."
The Tories have been in government for something like 80% of the last century yet have never privatised the NHS.
Plus, in Scotland, it’s not theirs to privatise
But keep up the Kool-Aid rations  |
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"
The Tories are hell bent on privatisation of the NHS.
The Tories have been in government for something like 80% of the last century yet have never privatised the NHS.
Plus, in Scotland, it’s not theirs to privatise
But keep up the Kool-Aid rations "
They keep cutting scotlands budget though. |
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"
The Tories are hell bent on privatisation of the NHS.
The Tories have been in government for something like 80% of the last century yet have never privatised the NHS.
Look into who owns the majority of NHS GP practises. It’s already happened. Google Centene and come back to me.
Plus, in Scotland, it’s not theirs to privatise
But keep up the Kool-Aid rations "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The SNP hardly have a glowing record on public service
The police , trashed
The railways don’t work
Education, failing
Health service crumbling
All under the control of saint Nicola |
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"
The Tories are hell bent on privatisation of the NHS.
The Tories have been in government for something like 80% of the last century yet have never privatised the NHS.
Plus, in Scotland, it’s not theirs to privatise
But keep up the Kool-Aid rations
They keep cutting scotlands budget though. "
. Our budget is £37m a year from Westminster… The exchequer takes £50m in tax from our whisky industry alone. |
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"Reading an article online..states that nearly 70% of nursing staff in Scotland would support strike action. Thoughts?
https://nursingnotes.co.uk/news/workforce/poll-suggests-scotlands-nursing-staff-support-strike-action/
Yes strike every working person in the UK should strike. The government will then solve the infatuation and the other costs. People power , are we whimps?
"
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"No.
People need to stand up for themselves and future generations.
The government are taking advantage of the NHS workers.
The Tories are hell bent on
privatisation of the NHS."
Fuck future generations they are not here. It is us the now generations let us rise and strike |
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"It's a difficult one. My little ones mum is a nurse, ITU ward specifically and she gets 11.80 an hour on a normal shift, super market workers, bus drivers, bin men, street litter pickers are on more than that, not to say they don't deserve it, my point is it's a disgrace, they are literally dealing
with peoples life.....if she does agency doing the same job she can
get 48 an hour, why is the government happy to pay 48 an hour but not give them all a wage rise?
It's the same with my job, it's actually illegal for us to strike, it's against the law, so we have to take other actions such as working to rule, much much less effective but the only thing we can do as of now.
Personally, yes I think they should do it and as harsh as this sounds, if people die or become worse from lack of care, everyone knows it's not the medical staff thought specifically, they are just putting a firm foot down until they get the respect they deserve. Sadly people will suffer for that and hopefully the public will point fingers at them.
My friend is a theatre nurse and she was saying the same last week about agency staff. Working alongside, same skill set and level of experience and she's getting considerably less."
well my advice to your friend is to resign and work as an agency nurse. An increase in pay |
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By *alcon43Woman
over a year ago
Paisley |
It’s not just about understaffing, they should look at the number of staff on long term sick as their positions can only be covered by temporary staff while they remain on the payroll.
The NHS needs to have someone with an expertise in logistics to actually make it function better. How much money is wasted transporting meals, laundry, equipment, etc when there’s no doubt a more economical way to do it. It’s not about more funding, the current budget could be used more efficiently. I’ve seen first hand the way money is wasted.
A patient not turning up for a CT scan and x-ray for example is a cost of £1200. A missed consultant appointment is £120. It’s all in the way their budgets work eg one missed CT and X-ray appointment per week costs one hospital costs £62,400 you can see how it soon adds up. That would easily pay for one senior member of nursing staff or two new nurses.
I worked in Adult Mental Health dealing with dementia patients, so unless another member of their family took them or were informed of the appointment, many of them are missed. Its all about how the budgets and resources are used. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"It’s not just about understaffing, they should look at the number of staff on long term sick as their positions can only be covered by temporary staff while they remain on the payroll.
The NHS needs to have someone with an expertise in logistics to actually make it function better. How much money is wasted transporting meals, laundry, equipment, etc when there’s no doubt a more economical way to do it. It’s not about more funding, the current budget could be used more efficiently. I’ve seen first hand the way money is wasted.
A patient not turning up for a CT scan and x-ray for example is a cost of £1200. A missed consultant appointment is £120. It’s all in the way their budgets work eg one missed CT and X-ray appointment per week costs one hospital costs £62,400 you can see how it soon adds up. That would easily pay for one senior member of nursing staff or two new nurses.
I worked in Adult Mental Health dealing with dementia patients, so unless another member of their family took them or were informed of the appointment, many of them are missed. Its all about how the budgets and resources are used. "
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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago
south east |
100% agree nhs staff are always getting shafted and understand the want to strike but also the need for them not to due to the repercussions it could lead to with patient health ..here's a solution ... the unions get together and start singing from the same sheet and get other industries to strike on behalf of nurses and i dont mean a token gesture strike  |
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By *bostCouple
over a year ago
glasgow |
Like the fire service, I’m sure that they wouldn’t go completely on strike. Life threatening situations would still be dealt with.
We as a society can’t ask people to risk their lives (Covid wards or running into a burning building) and then expect to thank them with banging some pots together on a Thursday night. We need to pay them a proper wage and give them decent working conditions. |
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By *avie65Man
over a year ago
In the west. |
"100% agree nhs staff are always getting shafted and understand the want to strike but also the need for them not to due to the repercussions it could lead to with patient health ..here's a solution ... the unions get together and start singing from the same sheet and get other industries to strike on behalf of nurses and i dont mean a token gesture strike "
These other sectors need to have a dispute before it can be escalated up to an indicative ballot, then if that has overwhelming support a strike ballot would be issued by the union executives.
Who would pay the wages of those going on strike on behalf of the nurses, which I'm sure is illegal?
You also have to consider that the other sectors won't earn as much as a nurse.
Striking is a last resort and the money you lose can never be made up. Employers can engineer a strike and the money lost by the workers is then used to pay for their own wage rise. I have been there on many occasions. |
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No.
It wouldn't be morally wrong for nurses to go on strike or take industrial action.
Is it morally wrong to sell elderly people's homes to pay for their Nursing Home care?
Is it morally wrong to use drone strikes on weddings in the Middle East?
Is it morally wrong for BAE Systems to sell 36 Million worth of ordnance in one month to the Saudis in order that the Saudis can drop the ordnance on innocent Yemeni civilians?
Once you start deciding on what is "morally wrong" are you not choosing to target and simplify a pay & conditions bargaining system of industrial action which is entirely legal & morally justified and deciding to ignore the indefenceable? |
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By *lic101Woman
over a year ago
edinburgh |
No I wouldn’t say it is morally wrong. The care sector is awful since covid hit. A lot of staff have left the care sector due to the strain and pressure that they were put under. Having to literally risk their own health and their families health to look after those sick and vulnerable. I know nurses who at that time had to leave their children under the care of other family members as they were concerned about bringing covid back home.
Since loosing so many of those staff the health sector now has to reply on bank or agency staff who do not provide that same level of support as your regular staff yet they get paid more if in an agency. It’s very unfair. I’m all for nurses and health care workers getting a pay rise.
As previously stated other roles with less responsibility are being paid more and that’s shocking
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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NO . Under rated underpaid and a national disgrace that so many unskilled or very much less skilled workers are paid 3 times what these poor people are paid.
Nhs is an credit to this country and should be rewarded and held to that regard not named and shamed cause the fat cats can't run a piss up in a brewery, the nurses that looked after me last year were amazing and I'm grateful and thankful to them all  |
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I still say go for an out out walk out day in support of the NHS everyone call in sick in all sectors a national sick day
We’re all fuxking sick of our taxes being used for the financial gain of private sector businesses/ back handed contracts and general mismanagement of public purse
What they going to do sack an entire workforce ?
They do a national walk out in other countries in protest, France are big on public protest
But no we’re the uk sit up and shut up mentality, it’s always someone else’s problem or we don’t do politics until it directly affects us |
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By *un44Man
over a year ago
GLASGOW |
"Reading an article online..states that nearly 70% of nursing staff in Scotland would support strike action. Thoughts?
https://nursingnotes.co.uk/news/workforce/poll-suggests-scotlands-nursing-staff-support-strike-action/
"
Yes definitely, but they shouldn't need to. Unfortunately we live in a society where a train driver can get 60k and we support them because it interrupts out lives when they strike so we cant go on a night out. But when you have the capability to save someone's life its acceptable to pay crap wages, treat them like shite and verbally abuse them. They should be treated like the highly trained professionals that they are and rewarded in a way that reflects their skills. Sturgeon and her partners in crime should be ashamed of themselves and embarrassed at the 'thank you bonus'.....rant over.... |
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When my work went on strike, they legally need to have some many people still working or it won’t go ahead. Ours got cancelled due to that. So I think no matter if they go on strike or not, there will be a bare minimum number of staff available to look after patients etc. although not fair on those staff members to be run off their feet. |
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"I can remember striking over grading many years ago in London. I think there thankfully is a new breed of nurse unwilling to put up with the shit conditions and pay. The older ones are frankly tired, the ones in the middle have been shafted in terms of their pensions. I vote strike."
I remember the strike over grading in about 1987. I was working for the NHS and crossed the picket line. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Swinging site? "
Aye.
You don't need to read or comment if it doesn't interest you. Thought I'd break the monotony of the 267 CJs threads, the mysterious wank club (sssh don't talk about it) and the "why can't I get a ride?" threads.
Plus, I find some serious debate can often show forumites in a different light and I've subsequently ended up speaking to them privately. |
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By *un44Man
over a year ago
GLASGOW |
"Swinging site?
Aye.
You don't need to read or comment if it doesn't interest you. Thought I'd break the monotony of the 267 CJs threads, the mysterious wank club (sssh don't talk about it) and the "why can't I get a ride?" threads.
Plus, I find some serious debate can often show forumites in a different light and I've subsequently ended up speaking to them privately. "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Definitely NO..when people take a career as a nurse doctor policeman fireman ambulance service..armed forces you are servant of the nation caring and defending the people. Morally wrong too strike in those professions. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Nurses and doctors are human beings and have bills to pay and food to buy the same as the rest of us.
During covid I feel they were used and abused and now I would totally understand and support their decision to strike.
#toriesout. |
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By *avie65Man
over a year ago
In the west. |
"Definitely NO..when people take a career as a nurse doctor policeman fireman ambulance service..armed forces you are servant of the nation caring and defending the people. Morally wrong too strike in those professions."
That is discrimination. The police and armed forces are the only groups in the public sector that are not allowed to strike. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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In that theory then no-one ever becomes a nurse or doctor because there are less skilled jobs for more money, who then has blood on there hands.
They can't and shouldn't be treated in this way so perhaps the unions of other trades should be stepping in and doing the strikes for the nurses instead patients looked after and nurses get a staged demonstration on there behalf.... |
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By *avie65Man
over a year ago
In the west. |
"Not discrimination..they would have blood on their hands if they went on strike. Could a nurse or doc live with that ?"
If you take away the right to strike fromsomeone or a specific group of people you are discriminating against them. The rules and regulations around striking are very stringent in the UK.
You need to have a certain percentage of the union members voting and have over 50% of them voting to take strike action or ASOS before the dates for action can be announced.
As for having blood on their hands get a grip. The health service is on its knees in this country because of successive governments and it is them that have "blood on their hands". |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Did train drivers or refuse have blood on there hands when people in those profession couldn't get to work on time or at all due to there strike or causing public health issues due to rat infestations etc every part of the working force plays it's part and should have the same rights yes the impacts and severity are higher the further up the chain of skills you go doesn't mean they should just put up n shut up it's a disgrace what's going on now. |
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"Not discrimination..they would have blood on their hands if they went on strike. Could a nurse or doc live with that ?"
Same way as the government could have blood on their hands if they work them into the ground and the end up ill or off with stress leaving hospitals understaffed delaying essential treatment or operations or a police force operating under resourced and unable to attend calls |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Typical of today's society..not happy with work just down tools ! I not happy with mine..lost 30% of my earnings since covid due to restructuring. But I would never go on strike. |
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By *bcums3Couple
over a year ago
lanarkshire |
"Not discrimination..they would have blood on their hands if they went on strike. Could a nurse or doc live with that ?"
with words like that why not just guilt us into continuing to be underpaid, over worked and under valued and I’m pretty sure most will be able to live with it, if it makes positive changes and helps our staff and nhs |
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"Not discrimination..they would have blood on their hands if they went on strike. Could a nurse or doc live with that ?"
If they do feel bad then they can take advice from any tory as they all seem more than happy to have blood on their hands. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Typical of today's society..not happy with work just down tools ! I not happy with mine..lost 30% of my earnings since covid due to restructuring. But I would never go on strike."
Are you regularly physically threatened or been actually assaulted at work? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Not discrimination..they would have blood on their hands if they went on strike. Could a nurse or doc live with that ?
Same way as the government could have blood on their hands if they work them into the ground and the end up ill or off with stress leaving hospitals understaffed delaying essential treatment or operations or a police force operating under resourced and unable to attend calls"
this is actually happening now..hence the need for action as the tory government not giving a toss. |
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"Typical of today's society..not happy with work just down tools ! I not happy with mine..lost 30% of my earnings since covid due to restructuring. But I would never go on strike.
Are you regularly physically threatened or been actually assaulted at work?"
 |
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"Not discrimination..they would have blood on their hands if they went on strike. Could a nurse or doc live with that ?
Same way as the government could have blood on their hands if they work them into the ground and the end up ill or off with stress leaving hospitals understaffed delaying essential treatment or operations or a police force operating under resourced and unable to attend callsthis is actually happening now..hence the need for action as the tory government not giving a toss."
It is and probably more than most realise |
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"Not discrimination..they would have blood on their hands if they went on strike. Could a nurse or doc live with that ?"
Why would they have blood on their hands when there is still going to be staff working during the strike. Legally there needs to be so many staff to allow strike to happen in this sort of profession so no matter what, the patients are still going to be cared for but on skeleton staff. |
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"Definitely NO..when people take a career as a nurse doctor policeman fireman ambulance service..armed forces you are servant of the nation caring and defending the people. Morally wrong too strike in those professions."
The armed forces aren’t allowed to strike, they get paid a daily rate every day which means during a normal working week 8-5, (theoretically you get paid to go to the pub and sleep).you get exactly the same as you do on exercise or operations where you might have worked 72 hours without a break. When you join the forces there is an acceptance that it’s not a normal job and you don’t have the same workers rights as other professions.
NHS staff have unions and have the same rights as every other worker. The NHS have had a pay rise in 2021 which was the first pay rise since the start of austerity in 2010. For the last 2 and a half years staff have borne the brunt of the pandemic. While most were in the house during lockdown NHS and other public sector staff and other key private sector staff were keeping the country going, working long hours.
Staff within the NHS are tired and fed up being a political football. Staff just want to earn a decent wage they can live off not take what is in effect a wage cut due to the cost of living and inflation. |
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By *avie65Man
over a year ago
In the west. |
"Definitely NO..when people take a career as a nurse doctor policeman fireman ambulance service..armed forces you are servant of the nation caring and defending the people. Morally wrong too strike in those professions.
The armed forces aren’t allowed to strike, they get paid a daily rate every day which means during a normal working week 8-5, (theoretically you get paid to go to the pub and sleep).you get exactly the same as you do on exercise or operations where you might have worked 72 hours without a break. When you join the forces there is an acceptance that it’s not a normal job and you don’t have the same workers rights as other professions.
NHS staff have unions and have the same rights as every other worker. The NHS have had a pay rise in 2021 which was the first pay rise since the start of austerity in 2010. For the last 2 and a half years staff have borne the brunt of the pandemic. While most were in the house during lockdown NHS and other public sector staff and other key private sector staff were keeping the country going, working long hours.
Staff within the NHS are tired and fed up being a political football. Staff just want to earn a decent wage they can live off not take what is in effect a wage cut due to the cost of living and inflation. "
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As they’re public sector, they actually get better pay and conditions than many workers in the private sector. In comparison to other key workers who also worked the pandemic & Lockdown, they’re well paid. |
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Think your confused. Only 1 or 2 “Supermarkets” pay their workers more than what you mentioned, and that comes at a cost to those staff (less staff but higher pay rate)
The rest get less, almost £2/h less to be exact, as I’m one of them and I work for a Big name U.K. food retailer. |
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"It's a difficult one. My little ones mum is a nurse, ITU ward specifically and she gets 11.80 an hour on a normal shift, super market workers, bus drivers, bin men, street litter pickers are on more than that, not to say they don't deserve it, my point is it's a disgrace, they are literally dealing with peoples life.....if she does agency doing the same job she can get 48 an hour, why is the government happy to pay 48 an hour but not give them all a wage rise?
It's the same with my job, it's actually illegal for us to strike, it's against the law, so we have to take other actions such as working to rule, much much less effective but the only thing we can do as of now.
Personally, yes I think they should do it and as harsh as this sounds, if people die or become worse from lack of care, everyone knows it's not the medical staff thought specifically, they are just putting a firm foot down until they get the respect they deserve. Sadly people will suffer for that and hopefully the public will point fingers at them."
Agency work is via Private Sector hence the higher pay rate.
It’s the same with most agency staff in any job, the agency rate is higher than the employer pay rate.
I did agency work in an office and got a higher rate than their own staff solely because I was via an agency. Employers pay the higher rate as they get the staff instantly and don’t need to train them themselves. |
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All the workers talking about striking are all Public Sector workers.
Private Sector workers dont get this luxury. For many, striking = Termination of Contract as many employers refuse to recognise unions or permit them entry to the premises (especially in Retail).
Yet these same workers were called Key workers and worked through the full lockdown to keep the nation running and got little or no thanks for doing it, and when payrise time came up it was 2-3% mandatory enforced rise, no negotiations. |
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Not read the thread but if anyone is going to work struggling to survive saving lives while rich fat cats watch profits rise then I wouldn’t blame anyone in the NHS. I would look solely to those who have a duty to it’s human population than it does to investors or politicians |
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By *bcums3Couple
over a year ago
lanarkshire |
"Definitely NO..when people take a career as a nurse doctor policeman fireman ambulance service..armed forces you are servant of the nation caring and defending the people. Morally wrong too strike in those professions.
The armed forces aren’t allowed to strike, they get paid a daily rate every day which means during a normal working week 8-5, (theoretically you get paid to go to the pub and sleep).you get exactly the same as you do on exercise or operations where you might have worked 72 hours without a break. When you join the forces there is an acceptance that it’s not a normal job and you don’t have the same workers rights as other professions.
NHS staff have unions and have the same rights as every other worker. The NHS have had a pay rise in 2021 which was the first pay rise since the start of austerity in 2010. For the last 2 and a half years staff have borne the brunt of the pandemic. While most were in the house during lockdown NHS and other public sector staff and other key private sector staff were keeping the country going, working long hours.
Staff within the NHS are tired and fed up being a political football. Staff just want to earn a decent wage they can live off not take what is in effect a wage cut due to the cost of living and inflation. "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"However if other unions come together in other industries went on strike to support hospital staff eg rail, buses, manufacturing companies, haulage companies, shops,, communications workers staff, teachers, etc were all to down tools once a week for a few weeks and stop that might serve a better purpose "
Exactly they would in France if the unions did unite together and all walked out together for a day or two in support of the nurses and hospital staff "don't just clap for them garbage" we need to stand together to make sure they don't have to strike because the government know a lot of nurses won't strike because they care so much about the people they are looking after |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Any person should have the right to strike and use the disruption to the workplace to highlight a grievance such as low pay, poor working practices, unsafe working conditions or a shit derisory/no increase to salary.
A short and managed disruption is much better for all involved rather than an en masse resignation of the workforce. |
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"Definitely NO..when people take a career as a nurse doctor policeman fireman ambulance service..armed forces you are servant of the nation caring and defending the people. Morally wrong too strike in those professions.
The armed forces aren’t allowed to strike, they get paid a daily rate every day which means during a normal working week 8-5, (theoretically you get paid to go to the pub and sleep).you get exactly the same as you do on exercise or operations where you might have worked 72 hours without a break. When you join the forces there is an acceptance that it’s not a normal job and you don’t have the same workers rights as other professions.
NHS staff have unions and have the same rights as every other worker. The NHS have had a pay rise in 2021 which was the first pay rise since the start of austerity in 2010. For the last 2 and a half years staff have borne the brunt of the pandemic. While most were in the house during lockdown NHS and other public sector staff and other key private sector staff were keeping the country going, working long hours.
Staff within the NHS are tired and fed up being a political football. Staff just want to earn a decent wage they can live off not take what is in effect a wage cut due to the cost of living and inflation. "
For information, military nurses, dentists, doctors etc can join a union. In fact the Royal College of Nursing has represented military nurses in tribunals brought against the MOD. Mostly notably a very senior RAF won a case of sex descrimination against the RAF, she was represented by the RCN.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jun/25/raf-nurse-damages-sexual-discrimination |
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of course they should. I'm a union rep been involved in many pay negotiations over the years. Most workers and most union reps never want to strike. In the 5 years I've been a rep I have only balloted for industrial action once which resulted in 3.1 offer being raised to 4.5. when then company was in shit we accepted 1.5 as good faith to company. unfortunately when company was posting record results. a5million loss to 100k loss they still didn't want to share with employees who without the company couldn't function. Same with nurses the NHS can't function without them and any pay rise will still be a real terms wage cut with cpi at near 10 percent |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Rep here aswell and going on strike soon, it's a travesty the way NHS staff are treated.
Billions wasted on track and trace but they can't find the money for our caring hard working NHS staff at the lower wage end.
Shame |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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You can't blame anyone for going on strike, especially the NHS, police etc. The government have had ridiculous increases in salaries over the years, while theirs have been frozen and money has been cut! We all appreciated them over last 2 years and now they're being slated again, all the while the government are doing fuck all apart from arguing between themselves!!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No I don't think it would be immoral for nurses to strike but if the there where those that felt they could not for the patients sake then they shouldn't be tarred as scabs |
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"You can't strike without their being sacrifices and people effected. Unfortunately it's people's health we are talking about "
What about the nurse health. They are stretched to the limit and should be fairly paid.
They are hardly going to walk out en masses and leave patients to die |
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