FabSwingers.com > Forums > Scotland > Gender Recognition Act

Gender Recognition Act

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Whats Fabbers thoughts on Scotland potentially allowing self identification and the other changes this act will bring? Keen to hear from a range of gender identities!

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Whats Fabbers thoughts on Scotland potentially allowing self identification and the other changes this act will bring? Keen to hear from a range of gender identities!"

Well that died haha!

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By *uriousjay99Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Am all for it.

People should be free to identify however they choose. Will some people use it nefariously? Probably but that’s why there needs to be safeguards in the legislation.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Firmly against it.

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By *tirling DarkCouple over a year ago

Stirling

Definitely for it.

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By *bzboy66Man over a year ago

Aberdeen

...Meantime other countries are getting their economies back working, getting people employed and paid a decent remuneration....so probably against as we should be concentrating on the priorities....which all in all means it will come to pass....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Firmly against it."

Agree, for example...'I am a Male today i want to self-identify as a 20 year old woman tomorrow' ridiculous.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Firmly against it.

Agree, for example...'I am a Male today i want to self-identify as a 20 year old woman tomorrow' ridiculous. "

Are you allowed to change your age too? Damn..i didnt know that..well in that case im 21 again and ready to fk up all over again! Haha

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By *bzboy66Man over a year ago

Aberdeen

"Firmly against it.

Agree, for example...'I am a Male today i want to self-identify as a 20 year old woman tomorrow' ridiculous. "

Or if the fancy takes you tomorrow, identify as a Washing Machine...hover, teapot wtf....

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Firmly against it.

Agree, for example...'I am a Male today i want to self-identify as a 20 year old woman tomorrow' ridiculous.

Or if the fancy takes you tomorrow, identify as a Washing Machine...hover, teapot wtf...."

I assume if a washing maching youd only be able to take...non-biological washing powder?!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm for it only if your gonna carry it through!

If you wanna change identity do it but not just by clothes.you can only identify if you live your full lifestyle changed.

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

Couldn't care less how a person wants to identify.....massive problem with any attempt at telling me to conform to their vision

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You can only be male or female straight or gay what ever your choice to live life as your still a male or a female regardless of what you identify as in your mind I dont care what people choose or how they live just stop demanding more rights than everyone else ... I'll see myself out

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You can only be male or female straight or gay what ever your choice to live life as your still a male or a female regardless of what you identify as in your mind I dont care what people choose or how they live just stop demanding more rights than everyone else ... I'll see myself out

Quite right !!!

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By *iltycoupleCouple over a year ago

Greenock

How will it work in CJs when they reach their single man limit

"oh that's OK. I identify as a women"

"OK what's your name"

"Peter"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I have genuine sympathy for people who struggle with their bodies and believe they were born in the wrong body. It must be horrific to live each day when your perception of yourself and the image in the mirror do not align. As individuals, it is absolutely none of my or anyone else's business how a person identifies, dresses or who they want to fuck.

However, when we're talking about acceptance at a legal level and the societal changes this would involve I draw the line. You cannot change sex. Therefore, any man who identifies as a woman, regardless of how feminine they look does not belong in any single sex female space. No toilets no changing rooms, no prisons, no domestic violence houses, no r*pe crises centres.

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By *oannefife1982TV/TS over a year ago

Fife

Well I am going to put my 2p in as someone that will be effected by this bill if it is successful. Sorry about the war & peace.

What needs to happen is people need to split gender & sex. I would agree that for medical proposes there are only 2 sexs.

However this bill is not talking about sex its talking about gender.

The World Health Organisation descrbies gender as "A social construction which cannot be neatly divided into binary lines of a man and a woman"

Therefore I totally agree that it is possible to change gender idenity to something that you feel comfortable with i.e trans/non-binary etc.

Trans people will not have anymore rights than anyone else other than the ones they already hold as per Equalities Act 2010 as gender idenity is a protected characteristic.

The only part of this bill that I am against is the time period. I think that 3 months is such a short period of time. When I submitted a responce to the committee looking at this I said that 6 months with 6 months reflextion period would be the way forward.

Like someone said above (sorry forgot the username) this would give the trans person all the time to ensure all legal documents have been changed (passport driving licence etc). However in most cases there are 3 stages to transition.

1. Social Transition - This is basicly where you present to the world in your chossen gender but still legally are your gender at birth.

2. Legal Transition - This is were by way of a statutory declaration or deed poll (mainly in england) you change your name and then go about changing all your legal documents (passports driving liences etc)

3. Medical Transitions - When you start taking HRT or getting surgeries etc. It is important to say that not all trans people will go ahead with medical due to many different reasons.

So under the current system if a Trans person chooses not to seek medical treatment when they can't obtain a GRC, all this bill is looking to do is take away the need for a medical diagnosis and reduce the time before you can apply.

To the people that sometimes spread hateful comments on both sides of the debate. Please remember that trans people can be very vunerable so keep the converation to an acceptable tone. We are all intilited to our opinions which might be different but we should still respect each other.

Happy to answer any constructive questions in private.

Thanks

Joanne

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I have genuine sympathy for people who struggle with their bodies and believe they were born in the wrong body. It must be horrific to live each day when your perception of yourself and the image in the mirror do not align. As individuals, it is absolutely none of my or anyone else's business how a person identifies, dresses or who they want to fuck.

So of someone is identifying as a woman all day everyday..but was born male..they can do everything else as a woman..but they should still use male toilets? And changing rooms etc?

Not judging what youre saying just curious about it as i dont have an opinion on it either way just now.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So of someone is identifying as a woman all day everyday..but was born male..they can do everything else as a woman..but they should still use male toilets? And changing rooms etc?

Not judging what youre saying just curious about it as i dont have an opinion on it either way just now. "

Yes. Because they are a man.

Now realistically, I realise that this would potentially create a lot of hassle and potential harm for the trans woman because a lot of guys can be dicks and would freak out at a person in a dress in their toilets.

So create 3rd space for trans people. Obviously this costs £ so is unlikely to happen. Plus it goes against a lot of people's beliefs as they believe trans women are women (they're not) and asking them to use another space is "othering" them.

Men's lack of acceptance of trans women in their spaces isn't women's problem to solve.

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By *oannefife1982TV/TS over a year ago

Fife

Trans people can already access single gender spaces as there is no law that states a male can't use female facilities & vice versa.

The head of R*pe crisis Scotland said on Tuesday when asked by MSP's that they have been operating a model of self ID to access there services Scotland wide for 15 years and there has never been a reported issue. Individual risk assessments are carried out to ensure everyone is safe.

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By *eneralKenobiMan over a year ago

North Angus

Can’t see it affecting me if it helps those who need it fire on

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Can’t see it affecting me if it helps those who need it fire on "

That's because you are a man. A biological woman identifying as a man, in your spaces poses absolutely no threat although I'd argue some men could feel uncomfortable.

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By *eneralKenobiMan over a year ago

North Angus

"Can’t see it affecting me if it helps those who need it fire on

That's because you are a man. A biological woman identifying as a man, in your spaces poses absolutely no threat although I'd argue some men could feel uncomfortable."

As long as I know what proverbs or whatever they use I’m good. Wouldn’t want to offend anyone unnecessarily

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Trans people can already access single gender spaces as there is no law that states a male can't use female facilities & vice versa.

I'm not talking about single "gender" spaces. I'm talking about single sex spaces.

The Equality Act (2010) allows for the provision of single sex spaces and for trans people to be excluded on the basis of their biological sex.

Sadly, fewer and fewer organisations are applying this legislation for fear of being labelled transphobic.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Can’t see it affecting me if it helps those who need it fire on

That's because you are a man. A biological woman identifying as a man, in your spaces poses absolutely no threat although I'd argue some men could feel uncomfortable.

As long as I know what proverbs or whatever they use I’m good. Wouldn’t want to offend anyone unnecessarily "

Cool then.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'd be way more comfortable being in a female public toilet with a male dressed as a female than a guy identifying as a female.

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By *uietbloke67Man over a year ago

outside your bedroom window ;-)

I have every sympathy with someone struggling with their gender, Ill never truly understand it, I dont live in their shoes, however I empathise with their situation

In saying that no mattet what you think, you cannot ignore the bodies basic chromosomes are based around two modules, male and female. If you are born either, that is what you are until you die at base level and all the cutting off or adding on will not change that.

No offence to anyone intended.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Can’t see it affecting me if it helps those who need it fire on

That's because you are a man. A biological woman identifying as a man, in your spaces poses absolutely no threat although I'd argue some men could feel uncomfortable."

As long as you're comfortable then thats the main thing I suppose

Lots of people didn't want gays in their changing rooms either, maybe we should outlaw that too - or maybe you're just bigoted?

Trans women are already allowed in 'female spaces' (as are lesbians by the way - maybe that makes you uncomfortable too?) so objecting to this law will do fuck all to appease your unfounded concerns.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Lesbians are women going into womans spaces tho.thats sexual preferences not gender...a man looking like a man but identifying as a woman going into a say womans toilet or changing room would certainly make some..not all but some uncomfortable that's why I d prefare until a full change has happened then use alternative spaces.

If that makes sense.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Lesbians are women going into womans spaces tho.thats sexual preferences not gender...a man looking like a man but identifying as a woman going into a say womans toilet or changing room would certainly make some..not all but some uncomfortable that's why I d prefare until a full change has happened then use alternative spaces.

If that makes sense."

I know the difference between gender sex and sexuality but the implication is that a trans person is going to be attacking women because they are sexuality attracted to women - hence my reference to lesbians.

I know you are trying to be respectful (unlike the person I replied to) but you're forgetting that for someone who identifies as female - going into a male toilet makes THEM very uncomfortable and one does not trump the other just because it's how YOU feel. Do you realise trans women are murdered at far higher rates than cis women for example? And cis women being murdered or attacked by trans women is almost unheard of/ non existent. Men find ways of attacking women just fine without pretending to be one to use their toilets.

I'm not trans btw and have no interest in using the women's toilets/changing rooms just to be clear but find it disgusting that people have such antiquated opinions that create a complete fantasy of trans women going about attacking women that is just that - a fantasy.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No-one said anything about attacking anyone...some female changing rooms are open. I for 1 wouldn't want to undress infront of a man and ok if she's a trans female but without surgery physically she's still a man hence my post on I'd be totally fine post op as I wouldn't know any difference.there are disabled or neutral changing or toilets that are alternatives.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Can’t see it affecting me if it helps those who need it fire on

That's because you are a man. A biological woman identifying as a man, in your spaces poses absolutely no threat although I'd argue some men could feel uncomfortable.

As long as you're comfortable then thats the main thing I suppose

Lots of people didn't want gays in their changing rooms either, maybe we should outlaw that too - or maybe you're just bigoted?

Trans women are already allowed in 'female spaces' (as are lesbians by the way - maybe that makes you uncomfortable too?) so objecting to this law will do fuck all to appease your unfounded concerns.

Was wondering how long it would take for the name calling to start. Well done you. I thought name calling was against forum rules?

Why would a lesbian threaten me? They're women.

And my objection to men in women's spaces isn't purely based on the risk of attack or assault. What about my 12 yr old daughter being made to feel uncomfortable by a fully intact male changing in the same space as her? She won't change in front of her Dad or brother. Why would it be ok in front of a total stranger who has a piece of paper saying he's a woman? What about allowing women some privacy and dignity?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I mind years ago being in a public toilet in Glasgow…I was just washing my hands and lifted my head up to see a man in a dress..hairy chest on full view with stubble standing next to me. For me personally I don’t agree with that

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I mind years ago being in a public toilet in Glasgow…I was just washing my hands and lifted my head up to see a man in a dress..hairy chest on full view with stubble standing next to me. For me personally I don’t agree with that "

Oh god you must be traumatised by that benign encounter

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 02/06/22 18:42:27]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Can’t see it affecting me if it helps those who need it fire on

That's because you are a man. A biological woman identifying as a man, in your spaces poses absolutely no threat although I'd argue some men could feel uncomfortable.

As long as you're comfortable then thats the main thing I suppose

Lots of people didn't want gays in their changing rooms either, maybe we should outlaw that too - or maybe you're just bigoted?

Trans women are already allowed in 'female spaces' (as are lesbians by the way - maybe that makes you uncomfortable too?) so objecting to this law will do fuck all to appease your unfounded concerns.

Was wondering how long it would take for the name calling to start. Well done you. I thought name calling was against forum rules?

Why would a lesbian threaten me? They're women.

Get a grip - calling you a bigot is because you are being bigoted.

Stop being so emotive about something that this law is fuck all to do with - a piece of paper is nothing to do with being allowed in a toilet.

Also 'in tact' jesus christ you are rancid. We are not talking about men in women spaces - we are talking about trans women in womens spaces.

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By *uietbloke67Man over a year ago

outside your bedroom window ;-)

Oh god you must be traumatised by that benign encounter"

Why trivialise the situation for the woman?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oh god you must be traumatised by that benign encounter

Why trivialise the situation for the woman?"

why trivialise the experience of trans women

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By *uietbloke67Man over a year ago

outside your bedroom window ;-)

Oh god you must be traumatised by that benign encounter

Why trivialise the situation for the woman?

why trivialise the experience of trans women"

Who trivilised it......away and find a phone box to have an argument it

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Can’t see it affecting me if it helps those who need it fire on

That's because you are a man. A biological woman identifying as a man, in your spaces poses absolutely no threat although I'd argue some men could feel uncomfortable.

As long as you're comfortable then thats the main thing I suppose

Lots of people didn't want gays in their changing rooms either, maybe we should outlaw that too - or maybe you're just bigoted?

Trans women are already allowed in 'female spaces' (as are lesbians by the way - maybe that makes you uncomfortable too?) so objecting to this law will do fuck all to appease your unfounded concerns.

Was wondering how long it would take for the name calling to start. Well done you. I thought name calling was against forum rules?

Why would a lesbian threaten me? They're women.

Get a grip - calling you a bigot is because you are being bigoted.

Stop being so emotive about something that this law is fuck all to do with - a piece of paper is nothing to do with being allowed in a toilet.

Also 'in tact' jesus christ you are rancid. We are not talking about men in women spaces - we are talking about trans women in womens spaces."

Rather be rancid than fucking deluded love.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oh god you must be traumatised by that benign encounter"

Yip was totally traumatised for a whole 2 seconds, my point is..to me that was a guy just wearing woman’s clothing in the FEMALE toilets

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oh god you must be traumatised by that benign encounter"

You have no idea of this woman's personal history or what was going through her head at the time.

I have sympathy for trans people. It cannot be an easy life to live.

You appear to have fuck all sympathy for anyone else though.

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By *oannefife1982TV/TS over a year ago

Fife

It's not helpful when we all start name calling.

The women that have raised an objection to the bill are absolutely entitled to there opinion, I disagree with them but calling some a bigoted isn't helpful we can agree to disagree.

I'm getting really sick of some trans people jumping on anything a woman says on this subject. They are totally entitled to there views.

I would be alarmed if when I'm in the female loo a man in a dress with beard and chest hair showing so trivialising these concerns aren't helpful.

All women trans & biological have a right to be concerned as let's face it woman have suffered more sexual based violence than men.

It's some men's attitudes that need to change

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's not helpful when we all start name calling.

The women that have raised an objection to the bill are absolutely entitled to there opinion, I disagree with them but calling some a bigoted isn't helpful we can agree to disagree.

I'm getting really sick of some trans people jumping on anything a woman says on this subject. They are totally entitled to there views.

I would be alarmed if when I'm in the female loo a man in a dress with beard and chest hair showing so trivialising these concerns aren't helpful.

All women trans & biological have a right to be concerned as let's face it woman have suffered more sexual based violence than men.

It's some men's attitudes that need to change

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By *hrobbermanMan over a year ago

Lanarkshire

We didn't need a new Gender Recognition Act.

At birth babies are accorded their gender in line with their Biologicial Sex.

Once they are adults, people are free to identify as they wish. The vast, vast majority of people (more than 99%) are perfectly happy with the Biological Sex they were born. A minute, teeny-weeny fraction of a percent might wish to have realignment surgery. Some might even undergo it.

The Act does nothing to change these facts, nor can it ever change Biological Sex.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Whats Fabbers thoughts on Scotland potentially allowing self identification and the other changes this act will bring? Keen to hear from a range of gender identities!"

I think it’s a step forward. Unfortunately like these always just harbour loads of “I’m not transphobic BUT…” comments. A bunch of cis people really don’t need to sit around discussing what they think about transgender people’s rights to be treated as equals.

No, I don’t need any abuse, thanks. If anyone PMs me hassling me, as some people have before around this issue, I’ll block and report you.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's not helpful when we all start name calling.

The women that have raised an objection to the bill are absolutely entitled to there opinion, I disagree with them but calling some a bigoted isn't helpful we can agree to disagree.

I'm getting really sick of some trans people jumping on anything a woman says on this subject. They are totally entitled to there views.

I would be alarmed if when I'm in the female loo a man in a dress with beard and chest hair showing so trivialising these concerns aren't helpful.

All women trans & biological have a right to be concerned as let's face it woman have suffered more sexual based violence than men.

It's some men's attitudes that need to change

"
well said

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Against it x

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By *ellinever70Woman over a year ago

Ayrshire

I don't really know about the intricacies of the act.

But I don't feel it's enactment is going to pose a threat to my daily life

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There was one particular Saturday night I was in a club and I stepped out the cubicle to see a TV standing at the sink. I wasn't happy to see him there but I kept schtum because the likelihood is he would have reported me to the person in charge of the club. Im sorry but he should have used the male toilets. Just my opinion x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's not helpful when we all start name calling.

The women that have raised an objection to the bill are absolutely entitled to there opinion, I disagree with them but calling some a bigoted isn't helpful we can agree to disagree.

I'm getting really sick of some trans people jumping on anything a woman says on this subject. They are totally entitled to there views.

I would be alarmed if when I'm in the female loo a man in a dress with beard and chest hair showing so trivialising these concerns aren't helpful.

All women trans & biological have a right to be concerned as let's face it woman have suffered more sexual based violence than men.

It's some men's attitudes that need to change

I’m a cis woman. I couldn’t give a flying fuck if a person with a hairy chest and beard was in the same toilets. You don’t actually know that person’s gender anyway, just by looking at them.

Bigotry needs to be called out. Tolerating it is being complicit. Where someone urinates is irrelevant, as long as it’s in a toilet pan or urinal and transgender women have higher instances of sexual assaults than cis women.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

More labels for people to create more division.

Here’s what I know

My opinions, views etc have changed massively since I was in my 20’s and they’ll change again by time I reach 50

Why can’t we all start seeing each other as humans and whatever colour, religion, gender, sexuality you are or want to be just get on with it and stop labelling ourselves.

For example, I’m not attracted to men and never have been however what if some guy comes into my life in 5 years time who I completely fall for. You can’t control these emotions

See each other the way we should not by labels

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By *alcon43Woman over a year ago

Paisley

A lot of ignorance being shown on here. Personally, I have no issue with people self identifying their gender. I often go out with my trans friend and we use the same toilets without any issues.

It would make life easier for her to change documentation if she was allowed to self identify.

I also have another trans female friend who cannot take the hormones or have reassignment surgery because she’s had cancer. It doesn’t make her any less of a woman in my opinion.

What does need to change is the abuse, both physical and verbal, that mainly trans women receive.

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By *coobyBoobyDooWoman over a year ago

Markfield

Do you realise trans women are murdered at far higher rates than cis women for example? And cis women being murdered or attacked by trans women is almost unheard of/ non existent.

Do you happen to have these figures to hand or a ratio perhaps?

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By *oannefife1982TV/TS over a year ago

Fife

I couldn't agree with this more

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Can’t see it affecting me if it helps those who need it fire on

That's because you are a man. A biological woman identifying as a man, in your spaces poses absolutely no threat although I'd argue some men could feel uncomfortable.

As long as you're comfortable then thats the main thing I suppose

Lots of people didn't want gays in their changing rooms either, maybe we should outlaw that too - or maybe you're just bigoted?

Trans women are already allowed in 'female spaces' (as are lesbians by the way - maybe that makes you uncomfortable too?) so objecting to this law will do fuck all to appease your unfounded concerns.

Was wondering how long it would take for the name calling to start. Well done you. I thought name calling was against forum rules?

Why would a lesbian threaten me? They're women.

Get a grip - calling you a bigot is because you are being bigoted.

Stop being so emotive about something that this law is fuck all to do with - a piece of paper is nothing to do with being allowed in a toilet.

Also 'in tact' jesus christ you are rancid. We are not talking about men in women spaces - we are talking about trans women in womens spaces."

Some people regularly cry name calling is against the rules while literally spouting transphobic comments that are classed as hate speech against a gender identity. The irony isn’t lost on me.

Imagine being so ignorant you think genitals determine someone’s gender but so arrogant you think you know enough to get on other people’s cases about their comments.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Can’t see it affecting me if it helps those who need it fire on

That's because you are a man. A biological woman identifying as a man, in your spaces poses absolutely no threat although I'd argue some men could feel uncomfortable.

As long as you're comfortable then thats the main thing I suppose

Lots of people didn't want gays in their changing rooms either, maybe we should outlaw that too - or maybe you're just bigoted?

Trans women are already allowed in 'female spaces' (as are lesbians by the way - maybe that makes you uncomfortable too?) so objecting to this law will do fuck all to appease your unfounded concerns.

Was wondering how long it would take for the name calling to start. Well done you. I thought name calling was against forum rules?

Why would a lesbian threaten me? They're women.

Get a grip - calling you a bigot is because you are being bigoted.

Stop being so emotive about something that this law is fuck all to do with - a piece of paper is nothing to do with being allowed in a toilet.

Also 'in tact' jesus christ you are rancid. We are not talking about men in women spaces - we are talking about trans women in womens spaces.

Some people regularly cry name calling is against the rules while literally spouting transphobic comments that are classed as hate speech against a gender identity. The irony isn’t lost on me.

Imagine being so ignorant you think genitals determine someone’s gender but so arrogant you think you know enough to get on other people’s cases about their comments. "

I think genitals determine their sex.

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By *uietbloke67Man over a year ago

outside your bedroom window ;-)

"It's not helpful when we all start name calling.

The women that have raised an objection to the bill are absolutely entitled to there opinion, I disagree with them but calling some a bigoted isn't helpful we can agree to disagree.

I'm getting really sick of some trans people jumping on anything a woman says on this subject. They are totally entitled to there views.

I would be alarmed if when I'm in the female loo a man in a dress with beard and chest hair showing so trivialising these concerns aren't helpful.

All women trans & biological have a right to be concerned as let's face it woman have suffered more sexual based violence than men.

It's some men's attitudes that need to change

I’m a cis woman. I couldn’t give a flying fuck if a person with a hairy chest and beard was in the same toilets. You don’t actually know that person’s gender anyway, just by looking at them.

What about the women who could give a Flying F about the situation, are their emotions, feelings and rights not equal?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Do you realise trans women are murdered at far higher rates than cis women for example? And cis women being murdered or attacked by trans women is almost unheard of/ non existent.

Do you happen to have these figures to hand or a ratio perhaps? "

Here's an article which suggests otherwise....written by a mother of a trans person.

"Uherd- The Truth about trans murders".

Will pm you the link.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's not helpful when we all start name calling.

The women that have raised an objection to the bill are absolutely entitled to there opinion, I disagree with them but calling some a bigoted isn't helpful we can agree to disagree.

I'm getting really sick of some trans people jumping on anything a woman says on this subject. They are totally entitled to there views.

I would be alarmed if when I'm in the female loo a man in a dress with beard and chest hair showing so trivialising these concerns aren't helpful.

All women trans & biological have a right to be concerned as let's face it woman have suffered more sexual based violence than men.

It's some men's attitudes that need to change

I’m a cis woman. I couldn’t give a flying fuck if a person with a hairy chest and beard was in the same toilets. You don’t actually know that person’s gender anyway, just by looking at them.

What about the women who could give a Flying F about the situation, are their emotions, feelings and rights not equal?

They probably said the same about the white folk who didn’t want to end racial segregation. More recently the people complaining gay marriage somehow affects their rights, when all it is doing is creating equality. Transgender women using a toilet harms no one.

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By *uietbloke67Man over a year ago

outside your bedroom window ;-)

"Can’t see it affecting me if it helps those who need it fire on

That's because you are a man. A biological woman identifying as a man, in your spaces poses absolutely no threat although I'd argue some men could feel uncomfortable.

As long as you're comfortable then thats the main thing I suppose

Lots of people didn't want gays in their changing rooms either, maybe we should outlaw that too - or maybe you're just bigoted?

Trans women are already allowed in 'female spaces' (as are lesbians by the way - maybe that makes you uncomfortable too?) so objecting to this law will do fuck all to appease your unfounded concerns.

Was wondering how long it would take for the name calling to start. Well done you. I thought name calling was against forum rules?

Why would a lesbian threaten me? They're women.

Get a grip - calling you a bigot is because you are being bigoted.

Stop being so emotive about something that this law is fuck all to do with - a piece of paper is nothing to do with being allowed in a toilet.

Also 'in tact' jesus christ you are rancid. We are not talking about men in women spaces - we are talking about trans women in womens spaces.

Some people regularly cry name calling is against the rules while literally spouting transphobic comments that are classed as hate speech against a gender identity. The irony isn’t lost on me.

Imagine being so ignorant you think genitals determine someone’s gender but so arrogant you think you know enough to get on other people’s cases about their comments. "

Genitals do sorta determine your sex at birth but dont they.

There is not many females born with a willie...noo cmon.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Can’t see it affecting me if it helps those who need it fire on

That's because you are a man. A biological woman identifying as a man, in your spaces poses absolutely no threat although I'd argue some men could feel uncomfortable.

As long as you're comfortable then thats the main thing I suppose

Lots of people didn't want gays in their changing rooms either, maybe we should outlaw that too - or maybe you're just bigoted?

Trans women are already allowed in 'female spaces' (as are lesbians by the way - maybe that makes you uncomfortable too?) so objecting to this law will do fuck all to appease your unfounded concerns.

Was wondering how long it would take for the name calling to start. Well done you. I thought name calling was against forum rules?

Why would a lesbian threaten me? They're women.

Get a grip - calling you a bigot is because you are being bigoted.

Stop being so emotive about something that this law is fuck all to do with - a piece of paper is nothing to do with being allowed in a toilet.

Also 'in tact' jesus christ you are rancid. We are not talking about men in women spaces - we are talking about trans women in womens spaces.

Some people regularly cry name calling is against the rules while literally spouting transphobic comments that are classed as hate speech against a gender identity. The irony isn’t lost on me.

Imagine being so ignorant you think genitals determine someone’s gender but so arrogant you think you know enough to get on other people’s cases about their comments.

I think genitals determine their sex."

Good thing we’re discussing the GENDER Recognition Act then. Since sex and gender aren’t the same thing.

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By *ola cubesMan over a year ago

coatbridge

"Can’t see it affecting me if it helps those who need it fire on

That's because you are a man. A biological woman identifying as a man, in your spaces poses absolutely no threat although I'd argue some men could feel uncomfortable.

As long as you're comfortable then thats the main thing I suppose

Lots of people didn't want gays in their changing rooms either, maybe we should outlaw that too - or maybe you're just bigoted?

Trans women are already allowed in 'female spaces' (as are lesbians by the way - maybe that makes you uncomfortable too?) so objecting to this law will do fuck all to appease your unfounded concerns.

Was wondering how long it would take for the name calling to start. Well done you. I thought name calling was against forum rules?

Why would a lesbian threaten me? They're women.

Get a grip - calling you a bigot is because you are being bigoted.

Stop being so emotive about something that this law is fuck all to do with - a piece of paper is nothing to do with being allowed in a toilet.

Also 'in tact' jesus christ you are rancid. We are not talking about men in women spaces - we are talking about trans women in womens spaces."
the part alot of people miss is highlighted here.

You want everyone to accept your version of reality while claiming what they believe is wrong.

Like it or lump it the societal norm is males are male females are female.

The big issue with what is happening now is the encroachment of a minority into the societal norm and attempting to change the majorities perceptions to one which the minority like.

I for one will never conform to someone else's perception.

As someone said above if the trans folk really want recognition then it simply has to be as what they are ie trans-male or trans-female.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's not helpful when we all start name calling.

The women that have raised an objection to the bill are absolutely entitled to there opinion, I disagree with them but calling some a bigoted isn't helpful we can agree to disagree.

I'm getting really sick of some trans people jumping on anything a woman says on this subject. They are totally entitled to there views.

I would be alarmed if when I'm in the female loo a man in a dress with beard and chest hair showing so trivialising these concerns aren't helpful.

All women trans & biological have a right to be concerned as let's face it woman have suffered more sexual based violence than men.

It's some men's attitudes that need to change

I’m a cis woman. I couldn’t give a flying fuck if a person with a hairy chest and beard was in the same toilets. You don’t actually know that person’s gender anyway, just by looking at them.

What about the women who could give a Flying F about the situation, are their emotions, feelings and rights not equal?

It's not just the fucking toilets though is it.

If a transwoman is a woman, in every way, then that means extremely vulnerable women like those in prison could find themselves sharing intimate spaces with male bodied people. Do they not count? Women who have a very high instance of having suffered domestic violence or sexual assault....and then they're faced with a a biological man in a confined space. This is already happening in Scotland btw.

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By *uietbloke67Man over a year ago

outside your bedroom window ;-)

"It's not helpful when we all start name calling.

The women that have raised an objection to the bill are absolutely entitled to there opinion, I disagree with them but calling some a bigoted isn't helpful we can agree to disagree.

I'm getting really sick of some trans people jumping on anything a woman says on this subject. They are totally entitled to there views.

I would be alarmed if when I'm in the female loo a man in a dress with beard and chest hair showing so trivialising these concerns aren't helpful.

All women trans & biological have a right to be concerned as let's face it woman have suffered more sexual based violence than men.

It's some men's attitudes that need to change

I’m a cis woman. I couldn’t give a flying fuck if a person with a hairy chest and beard was in the same toilets. You don’t actually know that person’s gender anyway, just by looking at them.

What about the women who could give a Flying F about the situation, are their emotions, feelings and rights not equal?

Cmon noo, there are not Hangings, slayings, deny of all voting rights and mass state brutalty involved here.

Bit of perspective please... there are issue but lets keep our comparisons relevant.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Can’t see it affecting me if it helps those who need it fire on

That's because you are a man. A biological woman identifying as a man, in your spaces poses absolutely no threat although I'd argue some men could feel uncomfortable.

As long as you're comfortable then thats the main thing I suppose

Lots of people didn't want gays in their changing rooms either, maybe we should outlaw that too - or maybe you're just bigoted?

Trans women are already allowed in 'female spaces' (as are lesbians by the way - maybe that makes you uncomfortable too?) so objecting to this law will do fuck all to appease your unfounded concerns.

Was wondering how long it would take for the name calling to start. Well done you. I thought name calling was against forum rules?

Why would a lesbian threaten me? They're women.

Get a grip - calling you a bigot is because you are being bigoted.

Stop being so emotive about something that this law is fuck all to do with - a piece of paper is nothing to do with being allowed in a toilet.

Also 'in tact' jesus christ you are rancid. We are not talking about men in women spaces - we are talking about trans women in womens spaces.

Some people regularly cry name calling is against the rules while literally spouting transphobic comments that are classed as hate speech against a gender identity. The irony isn’t lost on me.

Imagine being so ignorant you think genitals determine someone’s gender but so arrogant you think you know enough to get on other people’s cases about their comments.

I think genitals determine their sex.

Good thing we’re discussing the GENDER Recognition Act then. Since sex and gender aren’t the same thing."

Yes. And I was talking earlier about how it impacts on access to single SEX spaces.

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By *oanne_MacTV/TS over a year ago

Perth

I swore I wasnt going to comment on this thread when i saw it opened to avoid another ban.

But the level of ignorance, and lack of respect is frankly fucking ridiculous and not unexpected.

And im not saying anymore as i would get a ban

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By *coobyBoobyDooWoman over a year ago

Markfield

https://unherd.com/2022/01/the-truth-about-trans-murders/

I did a quick Google and found the article above. I haven’t researched it directly myself or fact checked but it’s an interesting piece.

With regard to my opinion, I’d be labelled a terf in the general trans population but what I am fighting for is the protection of women’s rights including safe single sex spaces and the right to exclude people who self id with no thought to permanent transition from using safe single sex spaces. I would also like to ensure support for people who transition to have gender specific safe spaces and supportive medical categorisation for thorough access to testing for sex specific conditions (ovarian cancer, prostate cancer, endometrial cancer, testicular cancer, menopause etc).

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"https://unherd.com/2022/01/the-truth-about-trans-murders/

I did a quick Google and found the article above. I haven’t researched it directly myself or fact checked but it’s an interesting piece.

You're far to sensible for this debate....close the door on your way out

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's not helpful when we all start name calling.

The women that have raised an objection to the bill are absolutely entitled to there opinion, I disagree with them but calling some a bigoted isn't helpful we can agree to disagree.

I'm getting really sick of some trans people jumping on anything a woman says on this subject. They are totally entitled to there views.

I would be alarmed if when I'm in the female loo a man in a dress with beard and chest hair showing so trivialising these concerns aren't helpful.

All women trans & biological have a right to be concerned as let's face it woman have suffered more sexual based violence than men.

It's some men's attitudes that need to change

I’m a cis woman. I couldn’t give a flying fuck if a person with a hairy chest and beard was in the same toilets. You don’t actually know that person’s gender anyway, just by looking at them.

What about the women who could give a Flying F about the situation, are their emotions, feelings and rights not equal?

Cmon noo, there are not Hangings, slayings, deny of all voting rights and mass state brutalty involved here.

Bit of perspective please... there are issue but lets keep our comparisons relevant."

That shows how little you know about this subject. Transgender people are one of the most marginalised groups in society and the number of them murdered last year alone, for being transgender is disgusting.

Last year in the UK there were 2630 hate crimes against transgender individuals, though the estimate of actual crimes is around 80-90% higher as the vast majority are unreported. Last year in America, 375 transgender people were killed. More than days of the year.

So yes, there is murder. There is sexual violence. Not to mention transgender people also have the highest suicide rate of any minority group. No doubt constantly having ignorant people discussing if they deserve to be left to live their lives in peace and with equality to cis people may play a part in their state of mind.

Maybe learn something about it before downplaying it?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So basically anyone disagreeing is ignorant?

Come on.

I'm a woman born and bread with all the bits to go with it.

Where's my rights as a woman to feel safe or comfortable?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So basically anyone disagreeing is ignorant?

Come on.

I'm a woman born and bread with all the bits to go with it.

Where's my rights as a woman to feel safe or comfortable? "

Bigot.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's not helpful when we all start name calling.

The women that have raised an objection to the bill are absolutely entitled to there opinion, I disagree with them but calling some a bigoted isn't helpful we can agree to disagree.

I'm getting really sick of some trans people jumping on anything a woman says on this subject. They are totally entitled to there views.

I would be alarmed if when I'm in the female loo a man in a dress with beard and chest hair showing so trivialising these concerns aren't helpful.

All women trans & biological have a right to be concerned as let's face it woman have suffered more sexual based violence than men.

It's some men's attitudes that need to change

I’m a cis woman. I couldn’t give a flying fuck if a person with a hairy chest and beard was in the same toilets. You don’t actually know that person’s gender anyway, just by looking at them.

What about the women who could give a Flying F about the situation, are their emotions, feelings and rights not equal?

It's not just the fucking toilets though is it.

Are you unaware SA already happens in cis male and female prisons?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Going to make some popcorn

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's not helpful when we all start name calling.

The women that have raised an objection to the bill are absolutely entitled to there opinion, I disagree with them but calling some a bigoted isn't helpful we can agree to disagree.

I'm getting really sick of some trans people jumping on anything a woman says on this subject. They are totally entitled to there views.

I would be alarmed if when I'm in the female loo a man in a dress with beard and chest hair showing so trivialising these concerns aren't helpful.

All women trans & biological have a right to be concerned as let's face it woman have suffered more sexual based violence than men.

It's some men's attitudes that need to change

I’m a cis woman. I couldn’t give a flying fuck if a person with a hairy chest and beard was in the same toilets. You don’t actually know that person’s gender anyway, just by looking at them.

What about the women who could give a Flying F about the situation, are their emotions, feelings and rights not equal?

It's not just the fucking toilets though is it.

Are you unaware SA already happens in cis male and female prisons? "

I'm tuning out now as a brain cell dies every time I engage with you. I'm nearly 48....this could be my last summer, don't have time to waste.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So basically anyone disagreeing is ignorant?

Come on.

I'm a woman born and bread with all the bits to go with it.

Where's my rights as a woman to feel safe or comfortable?

Bigot."
yip il get back to my kitchen sink..that's unless someone hasn't taken that place also

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So basically anyone disagreeing is ignorant?

Come on.

I'm a woman born and bread with all the bits to go with it.

Where's my rights as a woman to feel safe or comfortable? "

What do you call people talking shit about literally any other minority group? Bigots. But you think it’s different because it’s a group you want to talk shit about?

Your genitals have nothing to do with anything and if you’re uncomfortable with a person using the same bathroom due to their genitalia (which you wouldn’t even know unless they showed you), that’s a you problem and you should take a look at your own bias. It’s something everyone has for whatever subject and everyone can improve on.

Not aimed at you specifically but so I don’t need to make another comment:

I’m aware there’s probably no point replying to the comments of people who are clearly not supportive of transgender people’s rights, (though no doubt they say they are. “I’m not transphobic BUT…”). And I don’t come on here to debate. It’s not what this site is for.

But I need to speak up for the transgender people who may see this thread (which is becoming a running theme) and be hurt deeply by a giant fanny-filled echo chamber with no cis people interested in defending their human rights because they’ve decided it doesn’t affect them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Please do stop engaging. But every time you pull your TERF routine, you will be called out on it

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By *uietbloke67Man over a year ago

outside your bedroom window ;-)

"It's not helpful when we all start name calling.

The women that have raised an objection to the bill are absolutely entitled to there opinion, I disagree with them but calling some a bigoted isn't helpful we can agree to disagree.

I'm getting really sick of some trans people jumping on anything a woman says on this subject. They are totally entitled to there views.

I would be alarmed if when I'm in the female loo a man in a dress with beard and chest hair showing so trivialising these concerns aren't helpful.

All women trans & biological have a right to be concerned as let's face it woman have suffered more sexual based violence than men.

It's some men's attitudes that need to change

I’m a cis woman. I couldn’t give a flying fuck if a person with a hairy chest and beard was in the same toilets. You don’t actually know that person’s gender anyway, just by looking at them.

What about the women who could give a Flying F about the situation, are their emotions, feelings and rights not equal?

Cmon noo, there are not Hangings, slayings, deny of all voting rights and mass state brutalty involved here.

Bit of perspective please... there are issue but lets keep our comparisons relevant.

Maybe learn something about it before downplaying it?"

Well before you UP PLAY ...no one said violence was right.

What I did say was context and your comparsons are just not equavical.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So basically anyone disagreeing is ignorant?

Come on.

I'm a woman born and bread with all the bits to go with it.

Where's my rights as a woman to feel safe or comfortable?

What do you call people talking shit about literally any other minority group? Bigots. But you think it’s different because it’s a group you want to talk shit about?

Not aimed at you specifically but so I don’t need to make another comment:

There's my bug bear just because others don't see their prefared gender they assume that every other gender has to go the same way.

As I said alot pre op and post op are completely different visually so yes as most in a toilet cubical wouldn't know any different from a post op they would a pre op and that could be the problem.

This topic is always going to have different opinions but no one can demand what others think personally.

Slightly different but ..your kids at nursery then comes a new teacher ..male..just out if jail for looking at images he shouldn't be..you ok with that? What about his rights to be who wants..what about his right as a guy that's done his time and now wants to be a teacher?

I know not the same context.. but his right surely?

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