FabSwingers.com > Forums > Scotland > Is she right ( part 2 )
Is she right ( part 2 )
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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So 35 weeks after our last Fab unofficial survey , and following her first real test that is Covid
Is Nicola still correct and the majority of Scotland wants independence or is the media correct and the numbers are growing against indy.?
Fab unofficial vote. Mark 2
No political _iews or comments please ( same as last time ), to avoid debate or argument. just simply yes or no.
Should Scotland be independent. ?
I'm still a NO
In the interest of fairness , the last Fab vote showed Nicola ahead and a win for the indy supporters.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes  |
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I don't think NS is currently having to push the independence idea very hard, the UK government are doing most of the work for her.
I voted no last time round because I felt it important that we remain a part of the EU, but then the UK decided we should all leave anyway.
If we get another indyref then I will vote yes.
K |
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Still a no but defo starting to sway a little. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I have been a strong snp follower for 30 years along with independence and in 2014 helped out with stalls, letter drops, donations and much more.
during the last 2 years I have fully walked away from politics, I feel every party is just as bad as each other and I am sickened of it
so.... an Independent Scotland yes or no
I would like to be buried in an Independent Scotland, but I feel the party who would be in power do not have the ability to run an Independent Scotland, the freedoms they used to call for have drastically been removed and this will get much worse.
I will survive whether a Yes or No vote is delivered, and whilst this will take over so many peoples lives regardless of which side the consider is right, they will be caught up in politics regardless of side
and I will simply keep out of it, continue with my life without getting involved
either way I dont give a f..., . |
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Only if Shetland and the orkneys get their indyref too  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No. |
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By *iewMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Angus & Findhorn |
No |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No |
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By *exicolaMan
over a year ago
West Lothian |
YES - and then first opportunity vote the SNP out. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes...Nicola No. |
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It’s a no from us both!
Simple reason is that this current crisis has shown with the financial backing of the UK we can support people with the Furlough scheme. An SNP sponsored think tank reluctantly agreed that an independent Scotland couldn’t have afforded such a scheme |
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By *agluvrMan
over a year ago
Airdrie |
For me it’s still YES. I don’t think NS needs to campaign too hard for independence right now and in fairness to her, I don’t think she actually is. I think the Eton Mess in Westminster is doing the majority of the heavy lifting in that aspect. |
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Definate NO for me. My biggest fear is that England get sick of hearing the same old lunacy and call our bluff. We'd be a third world country overnight. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No. The challenges facing humanity require *more* unions, not fewer. Any country misguided enough to think it can go it alone will be left behind in the decades ahead.
I won't be happy until we're living under Skynet/Ultron. A one-world-order is the only way. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes
Don’t need to be a major player on the world scene just fair and decent at home |
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By *ikilovesCCouple
over a year ago
village life, closest main town inverness |
Her - Yes
Him - Maybe tending to probably, yes |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Both no |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes x |
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If you're a 'NO' to Scottish Independence, it might be an idea if you got out a bit more, or, if staying in, considered the implications of your decision. If not relevant to you, then maybe to your children and theirs? |
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"If you're a 'NO' to Scottish Independence, it might be an idea if you got out a bit more, or, if staying in, considered the implications of your decision. If not relevant to you, then maybe to your children and theirs? "
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Think its roughly +7 for independence so far . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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YES |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you're a 'NO' to Scottish Independence, it might be an idea if you got out a bit more, or, if staying in, considered the implications of your decision. If not relevant to you, then maybe to your children and theirs? "
Guess you're No too then  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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YES!!! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"If you're a 'NO' to Scottish Independence, it might be an idea if you got out a bit more, or, if staying in, considered the implications of your decision. If not relevant to you, then maybe to your children and theirs?
Guess you're No too then "
I did request yes or no replys so I seen the word "no" in there so good enough for me. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"If you're a 'NO' to Scottish Independence, it might be an idea if you got out a bit more, or, if staying in, considered the implications of your decision. If not relevant to you, then maybe to your children and theirs? "
I have been asked what the implications are that you warn us of. ? That said, I'm curious too. |
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[Removed by poster at 28/09/20 22:58:21] |
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Yes from both of us and while family both sides all yes |
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By *vcarolTV/TS
over a year ago
kilmarnockish |
No.
But, if she gets her way the future Baroness ??? will be ok.
If it is a collective yes, just makes sure you have candles in.... you’ll need them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Definate NO for me. My biggest fear is that England get sick of hearing the same old lunacy and call our bluff. We'd be a third world country overnight."
too true
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes |
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Am a definite YES especially after seeing how Boris The Buffoon handles power !! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Y-E-S |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No.
However if it was guaranteed Scotland had the necessary finances to go it alone and there was actually a party capable of running an independent country, then I may change my mind... |
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I voted for independence.
Would I now. NO |
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"No.
However if it was guaranteed Scotland had the necessary finances to go it alone and there was actually a party capable of running an independent country, then I may change my mind..."
Pretty much where I am. I voted yes in 2014 as being younger I got caught up in all the hysteria but as I’ve grown older I can see the SNP for what they are. It was a blessing in disguise. Until there’s a party I would trust to run an independent Scotland then for me it’s better the devil you know.
The SNP are utterly utterly useless and bordering on 1930s Germany. Scottish labour and Conservatives would be better outfits in office but not by very much.
They are a bunch of charlatans who’s sole purpose is to oppose everything and anything. Nothing more than a protest party. Yet they’ve had several mandates to call a referendum since due to the absurd FPTP voting system but haven’t taken it on. Some people like the cushion of being in power and all that it entails yet blaming someone else for their incompetence me thinks.
The way they reacted to the Brexit result is testament to that. They claimed to speak for the people of Scotland when in the GE 2017 they got less votes than Leave got in EU referendum in 2016.
It always brings a laugh to see Bully boy Blackford and previously Angus “shipman” Robertson making complete and utter tits of themselves when they get handed their arses on a weekly basis at PMQs.
As I’ve said previously as of the last meaningful poll which took place, December 2019, there isn’t an appetite for a referendum let alone full blown independence. For the hard of thinking who cry but 50odds seats just check the number of votes cast, call it the popular vote if you like.
In the words of Simon Cowell “it’s a NO from me” |
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Was No. Still No. Her poll evidence is based on inaccurate and unrepresentative closed polling groups of 1050 people. The reality is the numbers haven’t changed much, and it’s possible Covid has increased the No vote more as Scottish voters see how badly we need the U.K. back up to stay solvent up here. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No |
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Well said BeefyBanger. I completely agree with what you said there. I recently spoke to an SNP ex-mp and it was scary how she didn't have a clue about finance.
It is a bit like 1930s Germany when all other voices are stiffled and people told not to support businesses that supported the union like Tunnocks.
I've tried to have a rational debate with nationalists but it just ends with them calling me names like they were back in primary schoolwhen they realise that they are out of their depth and don't know the answer to any questions. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes from me |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Hell YES this is way bigger than the SNP having a majority or talk of being an independent country as a thing to be ashamed of.I’m not a huge SNP fan really and the way they do things sometimes is questionable but let’s face it nobody else is offering us this opportunity or a better alternative to the stale undemocratic status quo we are stuck in.
Major reset of politics is long overdue and desperately needed.This year is all the proof i need to confirm that for me.
Who knows the majority they hold could well collapse in the following election after a yes win and we could have a more balanced approach to politics going into the future.I would just like my and all of your votes to actually have meaning for us as voters.
Scotland is right now and always will be its own country.
The Union is an outdated idea with no relevance or sense of fairness in our modern age.
Ask yourself this would you vote to join the union now if it was the other way round?
Full devolution for evolution
Yes Yes Yes
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in 2014 I was yes. I am still in the yes camp but for me there were things highlighted by the opposition that still haven't been resolved
1. currency, should be in a position where the GBP is accepted as Scotland currency if we are to be independent if not we should have our own currency so that question needs to be answered
2. economy, again should be in a position where trade agreements can be put in place or should have been put in place by now.
3. Independence is also the wrong way to go about it, we need financial autonomy where we control all our money we are an independent country just now apart from finances so change vote to financial autonomy first as will give Scotland all powers in Edinburgh
For me nothing has changed since 2014 apart from Westminster making one cock up after another so we are relying on people's perception of the opposition but there will be a few people changed sides on both camps so if you want independence address these issues first and you will find independence will happen as its still 50 50 out there just now and losing again will definitely mean no independence ever for Scotland |
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I agree with what sexlicks says but it is not just the issue of currency that is swept under the carpet but the misinformation (basically lies) about things like rejoining the EU.
Sturgeon knows full well that the chance of getting back into the EU as an independent country is practically zero but she will never say that as it would lose her votes.
There are two reasons why she will never get in and that is a 9% deficit where EU rules state that a member state cannot have a deficit greater than 3%. The other reason is that the Spanish have already said that they would veto any application as they have their own problems with Catalonia.
To get to a 3% deficit there would need to be tax rises and public spending cuts totalling £10 billion a year. Sturgeon did admit to an enquiry back in 2018 that an independent Scotland would have a few years of "mild" austerity which is political speak for you're in for a rough ride. |
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Wee Nic has proven herself a fantastic leader. Clear info, honest comment and relatable through all this.
But it would be a No from me. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Both of us would vote yes, again |
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"It’s a no from us both!
Simple reason is that this current crisis has shown with the financial backing of the UK we can support people with the Furlough scheme. An SNP sponsored think tank reluctantly agreed that an independent Scotland couldn’t have afforded such a scheme "
An independent Scotland would have the borrowing power to extend the furlough scheme just as the uk government are doing. Currently we dont have these powers. Surely you dont think the so called big broad shoulders of the uk have a big pot of money they dip into in an emergency? They are borrowing today and we will all have to pay tomorrow. What this current situation has shown is that we are totally at the mercy of what the english politition or PM wants to do. Its an absolute yes from me. 60 odd countries in the last 80 or so years have become independent from the uk and none have asked to come back. Why should we be any different? |
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couple of posts referencing 1930s Germany, get a grip ffs. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So 35 weeks after our last Fab unofficial survey , and following her first real test that is Covid
Is Nicola still correct and the majority of Scotland wants independence or is the media correct and the numbers are growing against indy.?
Fab unofficial vote. Mark 2 always yes will never change my mind
No political _iews or comments please ( same as last time ), to avoid debate or argument. just simply yes or no.
Should Scotland be independent. ?
I'm still a NO
In the interest of fairness , the last Fab vote showed Nicola ahead and a win for the indy supporters. "
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Germany has placed Scotland as high risk and warns it’s citizens not to travel to Scotland.
Remind me how well Sturgeon has handled this pandemic again. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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SNP are a border line fascist fact |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"SNP are a border line fascist fact"
How do you work that out? |
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As good as she could , better than Boris , still begging London for money to do more ... if independent would have done more |
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"SNP are a border line fascist fact"
I completely agree. One guy said I should kneel to the SNP. If that's not a cult I don't know what is. |
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"Germany has placed Scotland as high risk and warns it’s citizens not to travel to Scotland.
Remind me how well Sturgeon has handled this pandemic again."
As well as Northern Ireland Wales and parts of England but hey bet thats Sturgeons fault too. |
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"SNP are a border line fascist fact
I completely agree. One guy said I should kneel to the SNP. If that's not a cult I don't know what is."
So one guy said something to you and now its a cult... behave |
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"It’s a no from us both!
Simple reason is that this current crisis has shown with the financial backing of the UK we can support people with the Furlough scheme. An SNP sponsored think tank reluctantly agreed that an independent Scotland couldn’t have afforded such a scheme
An independent Scotland would have the borrowing power to extend the furlough scheme just as the uk government are doing. Currently we dont have these powers. Surely you dont think the so called big broad shoulders of the uk have a big pot of money they dip into in an emergency? They are borrowing today and we will all have to pay tomorrow. What this current situation has shown is that we are totally at the mercy of what the english politition or PM wants to do. Its an absolute yes from me. 60 odd countries in the last 80 or so years have become independent from the uk and none have asked to come back. Why should we be any different? "
Scotland does have borrowing powers but is rarely used as Westminster has been putting extra money into Scotland. The rate of interest payable is considerably higher than the rate the UK pays. It's all there in the gov.scot website.
The UK also borrows from the BoE which is the country's central bank and not something Scotland has or can just magic out of thin air on day one of an independent Scotland.
The countries that you said became independent were already independent countries but what they did was remove the Queen as head of state.That's why we have a Commonwealth and not an Empire any longer as the status of those nations changed. |
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"SNP are a border line fascist fact
I completely agree. One guy said I should kneel to the SNP. If that's not a cult I don't know what is.
So one guy said something to you and now its a cult... behave"
Words of a similar nature has been said to me before. That was just the latest one because I disagreed with him. I just find it a bit worrying that some people are so blinkered that they can't see any other person point of _iew or even absorb facts. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"As good as she could , better than Boris , still begging London for money to do more ... if independent would have done more"
Saying that is easy, explain what more an independent scotland could or would have done and back it up with a simple explanation of how it would have been implemented or afforded. Remember the the bank of England borrowing route won't be an option. And if your answer contains any kind of borrowing plz say where from. |
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She’s looking more and more out her depth with each passing party political daily briefing.
The rolling of the eyes and gritted teeth as the journalists asks the questions then the bobbing of the head from side to side as she waffles on and on some nonsensical pish while answering.
Tick tock. |
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"SNP are a border line fascist fact
I completely agree. One guy said I should kneel to the SNP. If that's not a cult I don't know what is.
So one guy said something to you and now its a cult... behave
Words of a similar nature has been said to me before. That was just the latest one because I disagreed with him. I just find it a bit worrying that some people are so blinkered that they can't see any other person point of _iew or even absorb facts."
No blinkers here ..i believe that Scotland should be free to chose its own path, my partner however doesnt think Independence is a good idea but no one has ever told him to kneel to the Snp ..maybe its the company you keep. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
The Union is an outdated idea with no relevance or sense of fairness in our modern age.
Ask yourself this would you vote to join the union now if it was the other way round?
Full devolution for evolution
Yes Yes Yes
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Can I ask you this. If scotland was an independent country , would you want to be in the EU. ? |
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No and will remain that way till someone tells me what the currency will be,. What the economic plan is and who is lender of last resort. Till then it is lemmings like to say yes. |
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Yes. It won't be easy, but it'll be worth it to live in a representative democracy. The UK absolutley isn't one.
What about the finances? Well, if New Zealand - a country with a similar climate, population, GDP and resources - can survive outside the EU, with a currency a fraction of the value of the Pound, thousands of miles from its largest export markets, without being a third world country; why is such a feat beyond an independent Scotland, so very much closer to England and the EU? Are we really so very inferior we can't even copy what New Zealand do? Really?
I've never heard a single person explain exactly how a newly independent Scotland would be doomed to failure - outcast by the world and its organisations; nobody trading with us, denied any form of currency, not allowed to run a deficit, not be allowed to borrow money. In short, not to be allowed to function in the same way over 90% of all the other countries do.
I know a lot of Scots don't want independence and that's fair enough; but, for me, some economic hardship (and I'm already one of the "working poor") is a price well worth paying, to be rid of the likes of our current UK government for generations to come.
Independence also offers Scotland the opportunity of a non-Blairite Labour government, eventually. That's never going to be an option in the UK again. |
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"No and will remain that way till someone tells me what the currency will be,. What the economic plan is and who is lender of last resort. Till then it is lemmings like to say yes."
Don't call me a lemming. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
I've never heard a single person explain exactly how a newly independent Scotland would be doomed to failure - outcast by the world and its organisations; nobody trading with us, denied any form of currency, not allowed to run a deficit, not be allowed to borrow money. In short, not to be allowed to function in the same way over 90% of all the other countries do."
Your right what you say nobody has explained how it would fail but your missing a humongous point. The SNP has never explained how it would work either. And for me that's way more important, we need to be shown by fact and figure HOW it will work , WHO will trade with us, HOW we will afford unpre_edented situations like covid. WHAT currency we will be using So many more important questions right there that have not been answered, yet your blinkered question is for us to explain how it wouldn't work. Most no voters are not saying it won't work we are saying , explain to us how it WILL work. Surely its not a hard question if the SNP are so sure its a good idea. Prove it , its simple. |
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"No and will remain that way till someone tells me what the currency will be,. What the economic plan is and who is lender of last resort. Till then it is lemmings like to say yes."
who you calling a lemming ? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"No and will remain that way till someone tells me what the currency will be,. What the economic plan is and who is lender of last resort. Till then it is lemmings like to say yes.
who you calling a lemming ?"
Is actually funny that people are challenging a lemming comment but nobody interested in replying to questions related to how an independent Scotland would work. Kind of similar to the SNP ducking and diving when asked direct logistics questions. |
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My point exactly. It is not a faith matter, give us facts and figures not "feelings and flag waving "
Oh and I consider it more patriotic to defend a Scottish working poor person by not voting to make them struggle even more. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No and will remain that way till someone tells me what the currency will be,. What the economic plan is and who is lender of last resort. Till then it is lemmings like to say yes.
who you calling a lemming ?
Is actually funny that people are challenging a lemming comment but nobody interested in replying to questions related to how an independent Scotland would work. Kind of similar to the SNP ducking and diving when asked direct logistics questions. "
How is your poll going? |
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"No and will remain that way till someone tells me what the currency will be,. What the economic plan is and who is lender of last resort. Till then it is lemmings like to say yes.
who you calling a lemming ?
Is actually funny that people are challenging a lemming comment but nobody interested in replying to questions related to how an independent Scotland would work. Kind of similar to the SNP ducking and diving when asked direct logistics questions. "
is it ..does it amuse you ..simple pleasures for simple minds. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"No and will remain that way till someone tells me what the currency will be,. What the economic plan is and who is lender of last resort. Till then it is lemmings like to say yes.
who you calling a lemming ?
Is actually funny that people are challenging a lemming comment but nobody interested in replying to questions related to how an independent Scotland would work. Kind of similar to the SNP ducking and diving when asked direct logistics questions.
How is your poll going?"
Not done a proper count as it has turned more to discussion, pretty much same as last one lol.
As for numbers , would say the yes 's are ahead again .
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"No and will remain that way till someone tells me what the currency will be,. What the economic plan is and who is lender of last resort. Till then it is lemmings like to say yes.
who you calling a lemming ?
Is actually funny that people are challenging a lemming comment but nobody interested in replying to questions related to how an independent Scotland would work. Kind of similar to the SNP ducking and diving when asked direct logistics questions.
is it ..does it amuse you ..simple pleasures for simple minds."
Still no answers though, insults are easy , answers not so . |
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"No and will remain that way till someone tells me what the currency will be,. What the economic plan is and who is lender of last resort. Till then it is lemmings like to say yes.
who you calling a lemming ?
Is actually funny that people are challenging a lemming comment but nobody interested in replying to questions related to how an independent Scotland would work. Kind of similar to the SNP ducking and diving when asked direct logistics questions.
is it ..does it amuse you ..simple pleasures for simple minds.
Still no answers though, insults are easy , answers not so . "
Im not a politician or an economic expert but i do believe that Scotland will not be any worse off away from westminister . What makes you think we will be when every other country thats left seems to do ok. Are you saying the people of Scotland are too stupid to manage their own affairs ? |
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"
I've never heard a single person explain exactly how a newly independent Scotland would be doomed to failure - outcast by the world and its organisations; nobody trading with us, denied any form of currency, not allowed to run a deficit, not be allowed to borrow money. In short, not to be allowed to function in the same way over 90% of all the other countries do.
Your right what you say nobody has explained how it would fail but your missing a humongous point. The SNP has never explained how it would work either. And for me that's way more important, we need to be shown by fact and figure HOW it will work , WHO will trade with us, HOW we will afford unpre_edented situations like covid. WHAT currency we will be using So many more important questions right there that have not been answered, yet your blinkered question is for us to explain how it wouldn't work. Most no voters are not saying it won't work we are saying , explain to us how it WILL work. Surely its not a hard question if the SNP are so sure its a good idea. Prove it , its simple. "
Clearly, there's more persuasion to be done, I'll grant you that. As for who will trade with us? All the countries that already do, I suppose. If our currency is worth less, they'll be getting a bargain and we'll have to create more jobs to keep up with the demand.
As for proving it'll work; the proof is out there already, in every other small country that's doing just fine. There are plenty of them. Their economies are not collapsing. Their people are not starving.
I ask again - and it's a legitimate question - what is it about the Scots that makes them uniquely incapable of running their own economy? Why are all the difficulties in that - which I have always acknowledged - impossible for us to solve, but not for others?
As you rightly point out, the SNP need to come up with solutions. Though, I suspect, given the nature of Unionist/Nationalist politics up here; even if they did, it wouldn't be good enough for some. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"No and will remain that way till someone tells me what the currency will be,. What the economic plan is and who is lender of last resort. Till then it is lemmings like to say yes.
who you calling a lemming ?
Is actually funny that people are challenging a lemming comment but nobody interested in replying to questions related to how an independent Scotland would work. Kind of similar to the SNP ducking and diving when asked direct logistics questions.
is it ..does it amuse you ..simple pleasures for simple minds.
Still no answers though, insults are easy , answers not so .
Im not a politician or an economic expert but i do believe that Scotland will not be any worse off away from westminister . What makes you think we will be when every other country thats left seems to do ok. Are you saying the people of Scotland are too stupid to manage their own affairs ?"
Something must make you believe we won't be any worse off though , surely? You call me simple minded yet I'm the one asking the politicians, the experts , so to speak to explain it to me , and your the one going on the premise of thinking it won't be any worse.
I'm the same as you im not a politician or an expert on economics either but I have the sense to get facts before leaping into the unknown as you want to. Think about who is the simple one. ? |
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"My point exactly. It is not a faith matter, give us facts and figures not "feelings and flag waving "
Oh and I consider it more patriotic to defend a Scottish working poor person by not voting to make them struggle even more."
Here's a fact for you. The Party of current UK Government got 43.6% of the popular vote at the last General Election. They have a majority in the House of Commons.
I want to live in a country where that isn't possible. An independent Scotland would be such a country. It's even possible that your beloved Labour Party might form a Scottish Government again; one day.
It really isn't all about money. No matter how much many people want it to be. |
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By *edeWoman
over a year ago
the abyss |
The only thing I want to ask about the trade partners is.... Given the fact that England was shown as the the place most exports went to from Scotland... Do you think the demand will be as high?
Also creating new jobs isn't that easy in a place that relies heavily on tourism. Tourism which may drastically decrease if people decide not to venture over the border.... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
I've never heard a single person explain exactly how a newly independent Scotland would be doomed to failure - outcast by the world and its organisations; nobody trading with us, denied any form of currency, not allowed to run a deficit, not be allowed to borrow money. In short, not to be allowed to function in the same way over 90% of all the other countries do.
Your right what you say nobody has explained how it would fail but your missing a humongous point. The SNP has never explained how it would work either. And for me that's way more important, we need to be shown by fact and figure HOW it will work , WHO will trade with us, HOW we will afford unpre_edented situations like covid. WHAT currency we will be using So many more important questions right there that have not been answered, yet your blinkered question is for us to explain how it wouldn't work. Most no voters are not saying it won't work we are saying , explain to us how it WILL work. Surely its not a hard question if the SNP are so sure its a good idea. Prove it , its simple.
Clearly, there's more persuasion to be done, I'll grant you that. As for who will trade with us? All the countries that already do, I suppose. If our currency is worth less, they'll be getting a bargain and we'll have to create more jobs to keep up with the demand.
As for proving it'll work; the proof is out there already, in every other small country that's doing just fine. There are plenty of them. Their economies are not collapsing. Their people are not starving.
I ask again - and it's a legitimate question - what is it about the Scots that makes them uniquely incapable of running their own economy? Why are all the difficulties in that - which I have always acknowledged - impossible for us to solve, but not for others?
As you rightly point out, the SNP need to come up with solutions. Though, I suspect, given the nature of Unionist/Nationalist politics up here; even if they did, it wouldn't be good enough for some."
Your answer is mostly bluster, other countries can do it so we must be able to as well. And I don't expect you personally to have all the answers I expect our government to provide me with them if they want my vote. I not against indy by any means I just need to be sure it won't cost me , I want to know what the currency will be . Simple unanswered questions.
You are right though , no matter how viable or explained some will never sway. |
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Far from it,the Scots have been great inventors and innovators all through history. Unfortunately we never seem to have capitalised on this ability.
To think that an independent Scotland would have an easy progression from the Union to true independence is naive.
The Edinburgh financial sector would flee south. The costs of setting up a Defence ministry, border patrols,pension provisions of an aging population ,even down to something as mundane as issuing new driving licenses and passports are all very expensive. So it would be a rocky road and a brave vote . An act of faith rather than a considered decision |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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What will the UK national debt be in five years time and what will the deficit be? How much will the interest on the debt alone be.
I need to know these things before being convinced the union is worthwhile |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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[Removed by poster at 03/10/20 22:51:14] |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Are these things all free just now? |
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"Your answer is mostly bluster, other countries can do it so we must be able to as well. And I don't expect you personally to have all the answers I expect our government to provide me with them if they want my vote. I not against indy by any means I just need to be sure it won't cost me , I want to know what the currency will be . Simple unanswered questions.
You are right though , no matter how viable or explained some will never sway. "
It's not bluster, it's a legitimate question. I'll grant you it hasn't been answered yet - but why can't we? Nobody seems willing to answer it any more than the currency issue.
As far as costing you - it will. It will cost us all. I just happen to think it's a price worth paying.
How dare I play fast and loose with other people's money?
How dare they deny me representative government for nothing more than coin?
I want independence but I have my doubts that it will happen in my lifetime. I think it'll take a generation more; if it happens at all.
If it does, the world won't end - even for the Scots. |
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"
I've never heard a single person explain exactly how a newly independent Scotland would be doomed to failure - outcast by the world and its organisations; nobody trading with us, denied any form of currency, not allowed to run a deficit, not be allowed to borrow money. In short, not to be allowed to function in the same way over 90% of all the other countries do.
Your right what you say nobody has explained how it would fail but your missing a humongous point. The SNP has never explained how it would work either. And for me that's way more important, we need to be shown by fact and figure HOW it will work , WHO will trade with us, HOW we will afford unpre_edented situations like covid. WHAT currency we will be using So many more important questions right there that have not been answered, yet your blinkered question is for us to explain how it wouldn't work. Most no voters are not saying it won't work we are saying , explain to us how it WILL work. Surely its not a hard question if the SNP are so sure its a good idea. Prove it , its simple.
Clearly, there's more persuasion to be done, I'll grant you that. As for who will trade with us? All the countries that already do, I suppose. If our currency is worth less, they'll be getting a bargain and we'll have to create more jobs to keep up with the demand.
As for proving it'll work; the proof is out there already, in every other small country that's doing just fine. There are plenty of them. Their economies are not collapsing. Their people are not starving.
I ask again - and it's a legitimate question - what is it about the Scots that makes them uniquely incapable of running their own economy? Why are all the difficulties in that - which I have always acknowledged - impossible for us to solve, but not for others?
As you rightly point out, the SNP need to come up with solutions. Though, I suspect, given the nature of Unionist/Nationalist politics up here; even if they did, it wouldn't be good enough for some.
Your answer is mostly bluster, other countries can do it so we must be able to as well. And I don't expect you personally to have all the answers I expect our government to provide me with them if they want my vote. I not against indy by any means I just need to be sure it won't cost me , I want to know what the currency will be . Simple unanswered questions.
You are right though , no matter how viable or explained some will never sway. "
Do you not think brexit is going to cost you ? Or the cost to cover covid. We are all going to be hit in the pocket one way or another.
And yes your right some people wont be swayed, i personally dont think we could any worse off than we are now . |
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"Far from it,the Scots have been great inventors and innovators all through history. Unfortunately we never seem to have capitalised on this ability.
To think that an independent Scotland would have an easy progression from the Union to true independence is naive.
The Edinburgh financial sector would flee south. The costs of setting up a Defence ministry, border patrols,pension provisions of an aging population ,even down to something as mundane as issuing new driving licenses and passports are all very expensive. So it would be a rocky road and a brave vote . An act of faith rather than a considered decision "
Indeed it would be rocky and brave. That doesn't bar it from being considered, though.
Are there no positives to an independent Scotland at all, in your opinion? I know you're no more a fan of the UK government than you are of the SNP.
Not one thing that might be better? |
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And one last thing ..do you believe Scotland should be denied another referendum ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"SNP are a border line fascist fact
How do you work that out? "
if Scotland had voted yes on independent Scotland and said yes to stay in Europe SNP would have went on there way doing there fascist movement there would have been no second vote unless you were a private party no tax money no help truth is look what happened in 1930s Germany that's how it started get your heads out the sand and have a look around family members different _iews different thinking from each other how did it start back then fact read up before replying |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And one last thing ..do you believe Scotland should be denied another referendum ?"
should be least 25 years till there is
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I am no fan of the the present govt in either country. My politics is for the betterment of all a rising in standards in our lives. A noble thought but truly it IS not one shared by the SNP.... They talk left but act right, tell you what I will vote Yes when they get our education levels back to where they were before the present muddled thinking has got us, dropping year after year under this incompetent administration |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"SNP are a border line fascist fact
How do you work that out? if Scotland had voted yes on independent Scotland and said yes to stay in Europe SNP would have went on there way doing there fascist movement there would have been no second vote unless you were a private party no tax money no help truth is look what happened in 1930s Germany that's how it started get your heads out the sand and have a look around family members different _iews different thinking from each other how did it start back then fact read up before replying"
I have read up on the rise of fascism in Europe over the years but always willing to learn. Thanks for your reply. So a sign of a fascist country is people from the same family having different _iews and thinking? I thought that might be a sign of the opposite, people being freely able to think for themselves.But I bow to your superior knowledge, you're clearly an expert |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"And one last thing ..do you believe Scotland should be denied another referendum ?"
I believe we shouldn't be asking for one. We had a vote that was billed once in a generation, if it wasn't brexit the excuse would have been covid for a second referendum. Alex and Nichola, don't care about the ins and outs of how it would work , they won't be the people that will struggle through. Its just about going down in history as the politician that accomplished it. It wouldnt surprise me if we got independence if Nicola moved to another country if things got tough here after her political term. That's not a dig thats simply what I think she'd do. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And one last thing ..do you believe Scotland should be denied another referendum ? should be least 25 years till there is "
Why? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And one last thing ..do you believe Scotland should be denied another referendum ?
I believe we shouldn't be asking for one. We had a vote that was billed once in a generation, if it wasn't brexit the excuse would have been covid for a second referendum. Alex and Nichola, don't care about the ins and outs of how it would work , they won't be the people that will struggle through. Its just about going down in history as the politician that accomplished it. It wouldnt surprise me if we got independence if Nicola moved to another country if things got tough here after her political term. That's not a dig thats simply what I think she'd do. "
Do you have any evidence to back this up or is it pure speculation? |
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"And one last thing ..do you believe Scotland should be denied another referendum ?
I believe we shouldn't be asking for one. We had a vote that was billed once in a generation, if it wasn't brexit the excuse would have been covid for a second referendum. Alex and Nichola, don't care about the ins and outs of how it would work , they won't be the people that will struggle through. Its just about going down in history as the politician that accomplished it. It wouldnt surprise me if we got independence if Nicola moved to another country if things got tough here after her political term. That's not a dig thats simply what I think she'd do. "
I dont think it was quite billed as once in a generation, there is no where in any written document that states once in a generation.
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Surely the way to convince people like me is to deliver competence in Health ,education, transport and the economy. Now can anyone claim things are better now than pre Holyrood?
On some measures we are certainly going backwards |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Not. At all but British people have went through alot together ok mistakes were made but as a country we have got through it fact is England is like a older brother or sister mite be better than u at something's we are better than them at some we argue we bicker but when push comes to shove how has out backs really we all the UK we have each other to lean on what Nicola sturgeon standing on the shores off Scotland waving her finger saying leave our fishing grounds and oil fields alone going to cut it fuck off no chance u need your family Scotland England Wales and Northern Ireland to stand together say no chance mate get tay |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And one last thing ..do you believe Scotland should be denied another referendum ? should be least 25 years till there is
Why?"
we voted in 2014 it should be next generation to decide if it's right or your look at a fascist movement that won't take no for a answer |
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Welcome to Scotland. The only country in the world where half of its population hates it that much that they would rather be controlled by another country. Its a very sad situation. The brexit vote was the exact example of why we should be independant. But hey we're to wee and stupid arent we..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It would sadden me greatly if Scotland left the UK, we're family (literally in my case). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It would sadden me greatly if Scotland left the UK, we're family (literally in my case). "
we all are 100% like all families u always get the belter like me for instance lol
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And one last thing ..do you believe Scotland should be denied another referendum ?
I believe we shouldn't be asking for one. We had a vote that was billed once in a generation, if it wasn't brexit the excuse would have been covid for a second referendum. Alex and Nichola, don't care about the ins and outs of how it would work , they won't be the people that will struggle through. Its just about going down in history as the politician that accomplished it. It wouldnt surprise me if we got independence if Nicola moved to another country if things got tough here after her political term. That's not a dig thats simply what I think she'd do. "
Can you show us anywhere that it was signed or agreed that it was a once in a generation vote? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"And one last thing ..do you believe Scotland should be denied another referendum ?
I believe we shouldn't be asking for one. We had a vote that was billed once in a generation, if it wasn't brexit the excuse would have been covid for a second referendum. Alex and Nichola, don't care about the ins and outs of how it would work , they won't be the people that will struggle through. Its just about going down in history as the politician that accomplished it. It wouldnt surprise me if we got independence if Nicola moved to another country if things got tough here after her political term. That's not a dig thats simply what I think she'd do.
Can you show us anywhere that it was signed or agreed that it was a once in a generation vote?"
Go and watch Alex Salmond talking on the Andrew Marr show, he clearly says all that needs to prove ,everything the SNP are doing is wrong. This was part of his campaigning going on the show
so you have to stand by what you say. He vowed to accept the result and he accepted that 18 year ish gap was acceptable, me to by the way . He not only said it would be a once in a generation but even perhaps a once in a lifetime. Verbal contracts are as good as ANY written documents. You need to stop reading "The National" who put a spin on these types of comments . There frying your brain. |
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"No and will remain that way till someone tells me what the currency will be,. What the economic plan is and who is lender of last resort. Till then it is lemmings like to say yes.
who you calling a lemming ?
Is actually funny that people are challenging a lemming comment but nobody interested in replying to questions related to how an independent Scotland would work. Kind of similar to the SNP ducking and diving when asked direct logistics questions.
is it ..does it amuse you ..simple pleasures for simple minds.
Still no answers though, insults are easy , answers not so .
Im not a politician or an economic expert but i do believe that Scotland will not be any worse off away from westminister . What makes you think we will be when every other country thats left seems to do ok. Are you saying the people of Scotland are too stupid to manage their own affairs ?
Something must make you believe we won't be any worse off though , surely? You call me simple minded yet I'm the one asking the politicians, the experts , so to speak to explain it to me , and your the one going on the premise of thinking it won't be any worse.
I'm the same as you im not a politician or an expert on economics either but I have the sense to get facts before leaping into the unknown as you want to. Think about who is the simple one. ? "
Im far from simple and you have yet to answer the question what makes you think Scotland cant do it , when every other country seems to manage ?
What makes you think its beyond the realms of possibility for Scotland to manage its own affairs.
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"And one last thing ..do you believe Scotland should be denied another referendum ?
I believe we shouldn't be asking for one. We had a vote that was billed once in a generation, if it wasn't brexit the excuse would have been covid for a second referendum. Alex and Nichola, don't care about the ins and outs of how it would work , they won't be the people that will struggle through. Its just about going down in history as the politician that accomplished it. It wouldnt surprise me if we got independence if Nicola moved to another country if things got tough here after her political term. That's not a dig thats simply what I think she'd do.
Can you show us anywhere that it was signed or agreed that it was a once in a generation vote?
Go and watch Alex Salmond talking on the Andrew Marr show, he clearly says all that needs to prove ,everything the SNP are doing is wrong. This was part of his campaigning going on the show
so you have to stand by what you say. He vowed to accept the result and he accepted that 18 year ish gap was acceptable, me to by the way . He not only said it would be a once in a generation but even perhaps a once in a lifetime. Verbal contracts are as good as ANY written documents. You need to stop reading "The National" who put a spin on these types of comments . There frying your brain. "
Ok so being told the only way to stay in Europe is to stay part of the uk ? Did they stand by what they said .
The vow that was thrown out just before the vote, did the uk government stand by what they said ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And one last thing ..do you believe Scotland should be denied another referendum ?
I believe we shouldn't be asking for one. We had a vote that was billed once in a generation, if it wasn't brexit the excuse would have been covid for a second referendum. Alex and Nichola, don't care about the ins and outs of how it would work , they won't be the people that will struggle through. Its just about going down in history as the politician that accomplished it. It wouldnt surprise me if we got independence if Nicola moved to another country if things got tough here after her political term. That's not a dig thats simply what I think she'd do.
Can you show us anywhere that it was signed or agreed that it was a once in a generation vote?
Go and watch Alex Salmond talking on the Andrew Marr show, he clearly says all that needs to prove ,everything the SNP are doing is wrong. This was part of his campaigning going on the show
so you have to stand by what you say. He vowed to accept the result and he accepted that 18 year ish gap was acceptable, me to by the way . He not only said it would be a once in a generation but even perhaps a once in a lifetime. Verbal contracts are as good as ANY written documents. You need to stop reading "The National" who put a spin on these types of comments . There frying your brain. "
So everything Alex Salmond says on The Andrew Marr Show is legally binding in law? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And one last thing ..do you believe Scotland should be denied another referendum ?
I believe we shouldn't be asking for one. We had a vote that was billed once in a generation, if it wasn't brexit the excuse would have been covid for a second referendum. Alex and Nichola, don't care about the ins and outs of how it would work , they won't be the people that will struggle through. Its just about going down in history as the politician that accomplished it. It wouldnt surprise me if we got independence if Nicola moved to another country if things got tough here after her political term. That's not a dig thats simply what I think she'd do.
Can you show us anywhere that it was signed or agreed that it was a once in a generation vote?
Go and watch Alex Salmond talking on the Andrew Marr show, he clearly says all that needs to prove ,everything the SNP are doing is wrong. This was part of his campaigning going on the show
so you have to stand by what you say. He vowed to accept the result and he accepted that 18 year ish gap was acceptable, me to by the way . He not only said it would be a once in a generation but even perhaps a once in a lifetime. Verbal contracts are as good as ANY written documents. You need to stop reading "The National" who put a spin on these types of comments . There frying your brain. "
So thats a no then that there is nothing signed or agreed about once in a generation,oh and I've never read the national but maybe you should stop watching marr as it seems to be frying your brain lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Can't be arsed seeing how many for yes or no but think the OP might wait until the no outweigh the yes to stop the post lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No point arguing with any SNP followers on here there always going to force there opinions on u as said 1930s Germany wee all seen how that went lol it's a fascist movement SNP fact would not be surprised if all the ones on here have blocked the none SNP followers what's the bet there |
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"Can't be arsed seeing how many for yes or no but think the OP might wait until the no outweigh the yes to stop the post lol"
or we just keep posting and posting till thread becomes too big.Although that might start a part 3. |
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"No point arguing with any SNP followers on here there always going to force there opinions on u as said 1930s Germany wee all seen how that went lol it's a fascist movement SNP fact would not be surprised if all the ones on here have blocked the none SNP followers what's the bet there "
Who has forced their opinion on you ? If you post in forums then you expect people to answer with their _iews.. in the same way you are tryng to force people to see the SNP as a fascist political party. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Happy Sunday folks  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"No and will remain that way till someone tells me what the currency will be,. What the economic plan is and who is lender of last resort. Till then it is lemmings like to say yes.
who you calling a lemming ?
Is actually funny that people are challenging a lemming comment but nobody interested in replying to questions related to how an independent Scotland would work. Kind of similar to the SNP ducking and diving when asked direct logistics questions.
is it ..does it amuse you ..simple pleasures for simple minds.
Still no answers though, insults are easy , answers not so .
Im not a politician or an economic expert but i do believe that Scotland will not be any worse off away from westminister . What makes you think we will be when every other country thats left seems to do ok. Are you saying the people of Scotland are too stupid to manage their own affairs ?
Something must make you believe we won't be any worse off though , surely? You call me simple minded yet I'm the one asking the politicians, the experts , so to speak to explain it to me , and your the one going on the premise of thinking it won't be any worse.
I'm the same as you im not a politician or an expert on economics either but I have the sense to get facts before leaping into the unknown as you want to. Think about who is the simple one. ?
Im far from simple and you have yet to answer the question what makes you think Scotland cant do it , when every other country seems to manage ?
What makes you think its beyond the realms of possibility for Scotland to manage its own affairs.
"
I have never ever said they couldn't do it , I have only ever said , prove to me we can, simply by showing some kind of budget plan . Not an unreasonable question. We know what we have now, show me what would change financially. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Can't be arsed seeing how many for yes or no but think the OP might wait until the no outweigh the yes to stop the post lol"
I have happily gave up to date counts as best I can so your attempt at criticising how I have handled the thread is just your bitter personal attitude towards me, nothing more even though I reminded everyone at the start of the thread that the yes camp won the last vote and the yes camp were showing ahead this time you still feel the need to add sad childish comments to the conversation . Oldie , grow up, if you have no actual relevant comment to make on the thread , best, as the rules state , simply by pass it. Not rocket science is it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No and will remain that way till someone tells me what the currency will be,. What the economic plan is and who is lender of last resort. Till then it is lemmings like to say yes.
who you calling a lemming ?
Is actually funny that people are challenging a lemming comment but nobody interested in replying to questions related to how an independent Scotland would work. Kind of similar to the SNP ducking and diving when asked direct logistics questions.
is it ..does it amuse you ..simple pleasures for simple minds.
Still no answers though, insults are easy , answers not so .
Im not a politician or an economic expert but i do believe that Scotland will not be any worse off away from westminister . What makes you think we will be when every other country thats left seems to do ok. Are you saying the people of Scotland are too stupid to manage their own affairs ?
Something must make you believe we won't be any worse off though , surely? You call me simple minded yet I'm the one asking the politicians, the experts , so to speak to explain it to me , and your the one going on the premise of thinking it won't be any worse.
I'm the same as you im not a politician or an expert on economics either but I have the sense to get facts before leaping into the unknown as you want to. Think about who is the simple one. ?
Im far from simple and you have yet to answer the question what makes you think Scotland cant do it , when every other country seems to manage ?
What makes you think its beyond the realms of possibility for Scotland to manage its own affairs.
I have never ever said they couldn't do it , I have only ever said , prove to me we can, simply by showing some kind of budget plan . Not an unreasonable question. We know what we have now, show me what would change financially. "
What we have just now is a national debt of around two trillion pounds of which the interest alone is more than we spend annually on the military. Add the long term cost of covid to this. This is hardly sustainable economics |
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"No and will remain that way till someone tells me what the currency will be,. What the economic plan is and who is lender of last resort. Till then it is lemmings like to say yes.
who you calling a lemming ?
Is actually funny that people are challenging a lemming comment but nobody interested in replying to questions related to how an independent Scotland would work. Kind of similar to the SNP ducking and diving when asked direct logistics questions.
is it ..does it amuse you ..simple pleasures for simple minds.
Still no answers though, insults are easy , answers not so .
Im not a politician or an economic expert but i do believe that Scotland will not be any worse off away from westminister . What makes you think we will be when every other country thats left seems to do ok. Are you saying the people of Scotland are too stupid to manage their own affairs ?
Something must make you believe we won't be any worse off though , surely? You call me simple minded yet I'm the one asking the politicians, the experts , so to speak to explain it to me , and your the one going on the premise of thinking it won't be any worse.
I'm the same as you im not a politician or an expert on economics either but I have the sense to get facts before leaping into the unknown as you want to. Think about who is the simple one. ?
Im far from simple and you have yet to answer the question what makes you think Scotland cant do it , when every other country seems to manage ?
What makes you think its beyond the realms of possibility for Scotland to manage its own affairs.
I have never ever said they couldn't do it , I have only ever said , prove to me we can, simply by showing some kind of budget plan . Not an unreasonable question. We know what we have now, show me what would change financially. "
Actually we dont know what we have now , the brexit shit hasnt quite hit home as yet.
Im sure once a referendum date is agreed that their will be plans and budgets announced, I dont think, or at least i hope they wont, make the same mistakes twice in regards to currency questions etc |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Can't be arsed seeing how many for yes or no but think the OP might wait until the no outweigh the yes to stop the post lol
I have happily gave up to date counts as best I can so your attempt at criticising how I have handled the thread is just your bitter personal attitude towards me, nothing more even though I reminded everyone at the start of the thread that the yes camp won the last vote and the yes camp were showing ahead this time you still feel the need to add sad childish comments to the conversation . Oldie , grow up, if you have no actual relevant comment to make on the thread , best, as the rules state , simply by pass it. Not rocket science is it. "
oh someone rattle your cage today?
Not your bright cheery self? 
Not rocket science so why feel the need to keep rattling your im a no voter tin? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"No and will remain that way till someone tells me what the currency will be,. What the economic plan is and who is lender of last resort. Till then it is lemmings like to say yes.
who you calling a lemming ?
Is actually funny that people are challenging a lemming comment but nobody interested in replying to questions related to how an independent Scotland would work. Kind of similar to the SNP ducking and diving when asked direct logistics questions.
is it ..does it amuse you ..simple pleasures for simple minds.
Still no answers though, insults are easy , answers not so .
Im not a politician or an economic expert but i do believe that Scotland will not be any worse off away from westminister . What makes you think we will be when every other country thats left seems to do ok. Are you saying the people of Scotland are too stupid to manage their own affairs ?
Something must make you believe we won't be any worse off though , surely? You call me simple minded yet I'm the one asking the politicians, the experts , so to speak to explain it to me , and your the one going on the premise of thinking it won't be any worse.
I'm the same as you im not a politician or an expert on economics either but I have the sense to get facts before leaping into the unknown as you want to. Think about who is the simple one. ?
Im far from simple and you have yet to answer the question what makes you think Scotland cant do it , when every other country seems to manage ?
What makes you think its beyond the realms of possibility for Scotland to manage its own affairs.
I have never ever said they couldn't do it , I have only ever said , prove to me we can, simply by showing some kind of budget plan . Not an unreasonable question. We know what we have now, show me what would change financially.
What we have just now is a national debt of around two trillion pounds of which the interest alone is more than we spend annually on the military. Add the long term cost of covid to this. This is hardly sustainable economics"
And do you think being independent, scotland will be able to just wash there hands of this and walk away, it wont work like that in afraid. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No and will remain that way till someone tells me what the currency will be,. What the economic plan is and who is lender of last resort. Till then it is lemmings like to say yes.
who you calling a lemming ?
Is actually funny that people are challenging a lemming comment but nobody interested in replying to questions related to how an independent Scotland would work. Kind of similar to the SNP ducking and diving when asked direct logistics questions.
is it ..does it amuse you ..simple pleasures for simple minds.
Still no answers though, insults are easy , answers not so .
Im not a politician or an economic expert but i do believe that Scotland will not be any worse off away from westminister . What makes you think we will be when every other country thats left seems to do ok. Are you saying the people of Scotland are too stupid to manage their own affairs ?
Something must make you believe we won't be any worse off though , surely? You call me simple minded yet I'm the one asking the politicians, the experts , so to speak to explain it to me , and your the one going on the premise of thinking it won't be any worse.
I'm the same as you im not a politician or an expert on economics either but I have the sense to get facts before leaping into the unknown as you want to. Think about who is the simple one. ?
Im far from simple and you have yet to answer the question what makes you think Scotland cant do it , when every other country seems to manage ?
What makes you think its beyond the realms of possibility for Scotland to manage its own affairs.
I have never ever said they couldn't do it , I have only ever said , prove to me we can, simply by showing some kind of budget plan . Not an unreasonable question. We know what we have now, show me what would change financially.
What we have just now is a national debt of around two trillion pounds of which the interest alone is more than we spend annually on the military. Add the long term cost of covid to this. This is hardly sustainable economics
And do you think being independent, scotland will be able to just wash there hands of this and walk away, it wont work like that in afraid."
That would all be part of any future negotiations between Scotland and the UK. I still haven't seen your long term plan for the economy from the UK government backed up with facts and figures. Maybe if you can show me I will be convinced to change from yes to no. That is if you can also address the democratic deficit we have in Scotland. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"No and will remain that way till someone tells me what the currency will be,. What the economic plan is and who is lender of last resort. Till then it is lemmings like to say yes.
who you calling a lemming ?
Is actually funny that people are challenging a lemming comment but nobody interested in replying to questions related to how an independent Scotland would work. Kind of similar to the SNP ducking and diving when asked direct logistics questions.
is it ..does it amuse you ..simple pleasures for simple minds.
Still no answers though, insults are easy , answers not so .
Im not a politician or an economic expert but i do believe that Scotland will not be any worse off away from westminister . What makes you think we will be when every other country thats left seems to do ok. Are you saying the people of Scotland are too stupid to manage their own affairs ?
Something must make you believe we won't be any worse off though , surely? You call me simple minded yet I'm the one asking the politicians, the experts , so to speak to explain it to me , and your the one going on the premise of thinking it won't be any worse.
I'm the same as you im not a politician or an expert on economics either but I have the sense to get facts before leaping into the unknown as you want to. Think about who is the simple one. ?
Im far from simple and you have yet to answer the question what makes you think Scotland cant do it , when every other country seems to manage ?
What makes you think its beyond the realms of possibility for Scotland to manage its own affairs.
I have never ever said they couldn't do it , I have only ever said , prove to me we can, simply by showing some kind of budget plan . Not an unreasonable question. We know what we have now, show me what would change financially.
What we have just now is a national debt of around two trillion pounds of which the interest alone is more than we spend annually on the military. Add the long term cost of covid to this. This is hardly sustainable economics
And do you think being independent, scotland will be able to just wash there hands of this and walk away, it wont work like that in afraid.
That would all be part of any future negotiations between Scotland and the UK. I still haven't seen your long term plan for the economy from the UK government backed up with facts and figures. Maybe if you can show me I will be convinced to change from yes to no. That is if you can also address the democratic deficit we have in Scotland. "
Your completely missing the point of most "no" voters. I don't need to show anything where indy is concerned, we are in the UK, part of the UK and know what our taxes will be as part of all that . Its the SNP 's and perhaps even other people from the yes vote side of the debate to prove or convince me its a good idea to vote yes. Don't turn it round and say I should disprove this or that or show this or that its just plain daft as an argument.
Its like me being in a club and you telling me to prove my club is rubbish so I can join your club. If I thought your club was better I would simply leave my club and join yours. See how silly your argument is.
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I think the fact that 6yrs after the referendum that the fundamental questions on the economy, currency, pensions and trade are still needing to be answered shows the paucity of the independence case. |
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By *iboy69Couple
over a year ago
glasgow |
You tube ,professor off economics, politics and accountancy Richard Murphy on Scotland debt should put you right |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"You tube ,professor off economics, politics and accountancy Richard Murphy on Scotland debt should put you right "
Whats he saying about it. I'm assuming its not good or the SNP would be telling us to listen to him and he can explain how it will work. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Thought it was a simple yes or no????
Richard Murphy is the man. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I voted no ..... would vote yes now . Having reflected since 2016 . Uk government or to be more precise Boris is an absolute joke |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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2014 before I get jumped on |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
Richard Murphy is the man. "
He certainly is , you should go have a look at his squirming during a hollyrood committee meeting.
Not sure i would trust change from a 20 pence piece from him let alone his advice on running a countries finances .lol.
Even wee Nics not quoting him or his advice. Lmao |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Probably time to drop it OP . Knocked out in the second round |
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The SNP quietly admitted in the 2018 report of the Sustainable Growth Commission that a period of mild austerity might have to be in force for some years after independence. If a politician says it will be mild then you can bet your bottom dollar that your eye will start watering.
The Scottish government's own figures reveal the problem. Income £66 billion, expenditure £81 billion. Overdraft £15 billion. No one can say how that deficit will be brought down and after a year like 2020 I can't imagine what the numbers will be like.
It's not just the deficit that needs to be brought down but there is also a share of the national debt to be repaid as well. Again, no one can give an answer as to how this can be achieved.
The SNP keep on banging on about rejoining the EU but they know that would be years down the line if ever as the Spanish have already indicated that they would block membership even if, by some miracle, the deficit was brought down from 9% to under 3% which is what is required before membership can be considered.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The SNP quietly admitted in the 2018 report of the Sustainable Growth Commission that a period of mild austerity might have to be in force for some years after independence. If a politician says it will be mild then you can bet your bottom dollar that your eye will start watering.
The Scottish government's own figures reveal the problem. Income £66 billion, expenditure £81 billion. Overdraft £15 billion. No one can say how that deficit will be brought down and after a year like 2020 I can't imagine what the numbers will be like.
It's not just the deficit that needs to be brought down but there is also a share of the national debt to be repaid as well. Again, no one can give an answer as to how this can be achieved.
The SNP keep on banging on about rejoining the EU but they know that would be years down the line if ever as the Spanish have already indicated that they would block membership even if, by some miracle, the deficit was brought down from 9% to under 3% which is what is required before membership can be considered.
"
How will the deficit be brought down or the national debt repaid? That is a good question, what is the answer? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Hear Don your the worst off it all do u work do u have kids that will go onto uni ect take it not unless your pure rich me a get buy for my kids right now can give them a good life at uni ect SNP fuck will in fact not wasting any more time on this fascist SNP post |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" No political _iews or comments please ( same as last time ), to avoid debate or argument. just simply yes or no."
That first post aged well, didn't it. |
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |
"The SNP quietly admitted in the 2018 report of the Sustainable Growth Commission that a period of mild austerity might have to be in force for some years after independence. If a politician says it will be mild then you can bet your bottom dollar that your eye will start watering.
The Scottish government's own figures reveal the problem. Income £66 billion, expenditure £81 billion. Overdraft £15 billion. No one can say how that deficit will be brought down and after a year like 2020 I can't imagine what the numbers will be like.
It's not just the deficit that needs to be brought down but there is also a share of the national debt to be repaid as well. Again, no one can give an answer as to how this can be achieved.
The SNP keep on banging on about rejoining the EU but they know that would be years down the line if ever as the Spanish have already indicated that they would block membership even if, by some miracle, the deficit was brought down from 9% to under 3% which is what is required before membership can be considered.
How will the deficit be brought down or the national debt repaid? That is a good question, what is the answer?"
There is no answer from the SNP because they have not worked it out yet. Alex Salmond said that it would be paid by selling oil as $120 a barrel only problem is that it is currently selling at $43 a barrel and demand is falling. In 10 years time all cars will have to be electric so demand will decrease even further.
There are really only two ways of clearing debt and that is tax rises and cuts to public spending. You could try to grow the economy so that more people are in work and paying taxes but that takes years and it just takes something like Covid to come along and everyone's plans go up in smoke. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Well the yes camp wins again.
Don't think though, when or if it ever comes to another real vote the yes camp will be smiling afterwards.
But hey , won't stop them stamping their feet and keeping the country in its devisive state it's been for the last 6 years.
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