FabSwingers.com > Forums > Scotland > Always wondered
Always wondered
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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With waiting lists before covid at rediculous levels , people waiting months for ops and only set to get worse post covid, why dont hospitals do routine hospital operations and general day time appointments 24 hours a day . ?. Have a day shift back shift and nightshift , 8 hour shifts. Rotating.
This would clear waiting lists , employ way more doctors, surgeons, nurses ect. Reduce the need of working hours for staff that need to work 12 hour shifts, unless of course they were happy doing 12's of course.
From my personal point of view if someone had a choice of waiting a long period of time for a hospital appointment or be seen next Thursday at 02.30 am, I'd take the early appointment. No traffic , no fighting for a parking space, no long waiting room queues. Win win win.
Genuinely curious, Thoughts. ???
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By *un44Man
over a year ago
GLASGOW |
On paper it's a good idea and if worked out it would probably work well. But in my experience of the public sector two things always get in the way of common sense.....management and unions. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Considering that where I work however it means more staff are required and they are just not available and that's from medical staff to nursing. "
Yeah personally I thought staffing would be a major factor.
My thought was though, you go to an appointment, there's normally 2 admin staff at reception, 2 or 3 nurses taking you to another waiting area outside a doctors door, surely that's 2 shifts worth of staff, 1 admin , and 1 nurse pointing you to a door, theres 16 hours covered instead of 9am - 5 pm surely. |
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They do surgeries & have clinics over weekends both Saturdays & Sundays as It is .
Both my last surgeries they called me on the Friday for surgery on the Sunday as they were trying to play catch up with long waiting times  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Considering that where I work however it means more staff are required and they are just not available and that's from medical staff to nursing.
Yeah personally I thought staffing would be a major factor.
My thought was though, you go to an appointment, there's normally 2 admin staff at reception, 2 or 3 nurses taking you to another waiting area outside a doctors door, surely that's 2 shifts worth of staff, 1 admin , and 1 nurse pointing you to a door, theres 16 hours covered instead of 9am - 5 pm surely."
Guess depends on the dept, obv not going to chat openly here. I'll drop you a note. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Considering that where I work however it means more staff are required and they are just not available and that's from medical staff to nursing. "
Perhaps if shifts were only 8hrs for this type of scenario, older staff might stay on longer instead if retiring from jobs they love. This could be like a bit easier future than slogging on wards. Again win win for staff and waiting lists. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"They do surgeries & have clinics over weekends both Saturdays & Sundays as It is .
Both my last surgeries they called me on the Friday for surgery on the Sunday as they were trying to play catch up with long waiting times "
I'm guessing that would be overtime miss D that could probably have paid for a backshift Monday to Friday, still good though that they are doing that. |
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"They do surgeries & have clinics over weekends both Saturdays & Sundays as It is .
Both my last surgeries they called me on the Friday for surgery on the Sunday as they were trying to play catch up with long waiting times
I'm guessing that would be overtime miss D that could probably have paid for a backshift Monday to Friday, still good though that they are doing that. "
Yes |
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By *edeWoman
over a year ago
the abyss |
I would say part of it comes down to funding - staff are paid more at night. I would also say part of it comes down to statistics that surgeries done at night may not be as good a standard as during the day for the pure fact humans 'function' at a higher level during the day generally. Hence why emergency ops only.
How would you chose who drew the potentially unlucky straw of surgery at night??  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I would say part of it comes down to funding - staff are paid more at night. I would also say part of it comes down to statistics that surgeries done at night may not be as good a standard as during the day for the pure fact humans 'function' at a higher level during the day generally. Hence why emergency ops only.
How would you chose who drew the potentially unlucky straw of surgery at night?? "
You don't need to draw straws, you offer during a gp visit, ie , the waiting list is quite lengthy dear patient but this department runs 24 hours, would you be willing to accept an unsociable hours appointment if it was much sooner, tick a box type thing yes or no. Most people I reckon would say sooner the better,
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By *edeWoman
over a year ago
the abyss |
"I would say part of it comes down to funding - staff are paid more at night. I would also say part of it comes down to statistics that surgeries done at night may not be as good a standard as during the day for the pure fact humans 'function' at a higher level during the day generally. Hence why emergency ops only.
How would you chose who drew the potentially unlucky straw of surgery at night??
You don't need to draw straws, you offer during a gp visit, ie , the waiting list is quite lengthy dear patient but this department runs 24 hours, would you be willing to accept an unsociable hours appointment if it was much sooner, tick a box type thing yes or no. Most people I reckon would say sooner the better,
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That depends on if they understand the full impact and difference it can make. It also doesn't make a difference to the costs unless they were willing to pay extra. In which case they can go private |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Also many Dr's work from private clinics & hospitals too and have set days & evenings for surgeries there "
But miss D that's the fault of the nhs waiting lists, my op was rescheduled at Ross hall through the nhs. Wasted money, pre op meeting east Kilbride, second meeting east Kilbride, no surgeon available, rescheduled, at Ross hall, pre op meeting Ross hall, second meeting ross hall same east Kilbride surgeon at should have done it at eastkilbride doing op at oss hall, he hadn't a fuckin clue even what ankle was to be operated on then escalated from a simple fix to major op, erm fuck off. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The stats on the success of weekend operations and admissions make this idea a non-starter.
How many specialists at the top of their game want the weekend off with their families, or be at home of an evening. Will the NHS be able to find skilled staff who will work regular unsocial hours of the nature described? |
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There is the shift allowance to consider when working out costs and I’m led to believe it increases their wages substantially as some nursing staff prefer shift work to mon-fri 9-5 Due to the wages even at the same grade so they might not view it as cost effective.
There will be pros and cons to everything I suppose - suggest it to the NHS and see if they give you an advance on your next waiting list as a reward  |
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By *un44Man
over a year ago
GLASGOW |
Like many areas and industry's the traditional 9-5 isn't something that fits into modern life. It needs to be looked at as a 24/7 service in all areas. Lots of trades are doing this as they get busier and also to service those who work nights. |
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By *un44Man
over a year ago
GLASGOW |
"Maybe try sorting out the problems of people abusing the NHS and using it unnecessarily - then the funds for it may be available. "
Couldn't have put it any better
Then look at all the other areas the same thing is happening and stop throwing money away on these people
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Who are all these NHS abusers?
Who are all the others?
Have you ever worked in a hospital on a ward?"
No
But I'd imagine if someone is admitted to a ward, it's for a reason |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Who are all these NHS abusers?
Who are all the others?
Have you ever worked in a hospital on a ward?
No
But I'd imagine if someone is admitted to a ward, it's for a reason "
Yes your right but it depends on the reason, if you watch ambulance documentaries on TV, people abuse the ambulance service by dialing 999 for non emergencies. Repeat offenders well known by staff but policy dictates the must attend as it's protocol. I have no doubt hospitals are the same, not everyone going will have genuine ailments but staff cannot let them go home without following procedures, possibly even though it's repeated abuse of the system. |
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By *edeWoman
over a year ago
the abyss |
"Who are all these NHS abusers?
Who are all the others?
Have you ever worked in a hospital on a ward?
No
But I'd imagine if someone is admitted to a ward, it's for a reason "
Usually yes. But often you find it difficult when they are fit and healthy to be discharged to do so. The excuses can be wide a varied. Some valid, many not.
Some like the fact their meals are brought to them and they don't need to do anything, some like the company, some unfortunately just like the attention they get. Some feel the NHS should pay for chairs and mattresses to make their life at home more comfortable.
Note I am saying some not all. Many patients just want to get home, they are often the ones that need to stay in more.
But one patient here and there staying one or two nights than is medically required adds up to a ridiculous cost to the NHS. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Who are all these NHS abusers?
Who are all the others?
Have you ever worked in a hospital on a ward?
No
But I'd imagine if someone is admitted to a ward, it's for a reason
Usually yes. But often you find it difficult when they are fit and healthy to be discharged to do so. The excuses can be wide a varied. Some valid, many not.
Some like the fact their meals are brought to them and they don't need to do anything, some like the company, some unfortunately just like the attention they get. Some feel the NHS should pay for chairs and mattresses to make their life at home more comfortable.
Note I am saying some not all. Many patients just want to get home, they are often the ones that need to stay in more.
But one patient here and there staying one or two nights than is medically required adds up to a ridiculous cost to the NHS."
Is it not maybe the case that some are anxious about going home after being hospitalised for something? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Who are all these NHS abusers?
Who are all the others?
Have you ever worked in a hospital on a ward?
No
But I'd imagine if someone is admitted to a ward, it's for a reason
Usually yes. But often you find it difficult when they are fit and healthy to be discharged to do so. The excuses can be wide a varied. Some valid, many not.
Some like the fact their meals are brought to them and they don't need to do anything, some like the company, some unfortunately just like the attention they get. Some feel the NHS should pay for chairs and mattresses to make their life at home more comfortable.
Note I am saying some not all. Many patients just want to get home, they are often the ones that need to stay in more.
But one patient here and there staying one or two nights than is medically required adds up to a ridiculous cost to the NHS.
Is it not maybe the case that some are anxious about going home after being hospitalised for something?"
You should stop kidding on your naive, your anything but naive, you know as well as EVERYONE else where there is a free system people will abuse it. You could name anxiousness or 100 other genuine reasons and nursing staff could probably name the same amount of abusive situations. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I don't think folk fake illness for a few nights in a hospital bed and some bland food just for kicks"
Do you have any views on the original topic or just looking for a bite from the many NHS staff on Fab who know your talking about something you know nothing about. |
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"Like many areas and industry's the traditional 9-5 isn't something that fits into modern life. It needs to be looked at as a 24/7 service in all areas. Lots of trades are doing this as they get busier and also to service those who work nights."
Well atleast if not 24/7 then at least move to 7days aweek as already stated above modern life in alot of industries is no longer mon-fri or payed extra for weekends as its classed as a normal working day think the nhs has been lucky in that regard but it could be time for the nhs to move with the times i know this might not be a popular view dont intend to offend just my opinion(male) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don't think folk fake illness for a few nights in a hospital bed and some bland food just for kicks
Do you have any views on the original topic or just looking for a bite from the many NHS staff on Fab who know your talking about something you know nothing about. "
I don't think it would be workable |
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"Considering that where I work however it means more staff are required and they are just not available and that's from medical staff to nursing. "
Snap and it is not just medical and nursing staff required |
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By *edeWoman
over a year ago
the abyss |
"Like many areas and industry's the traditional 9-5 isn't something that fits into modern life. It needs to be looked at as a 24/7 service in all areas. Lots of trades are doing this as they get busier and also to service those who work nights.
Well atleast if not 24/7 then at least move to 7days aweek as already stated above modern life in alot of industries is no longer mon-fri or payed extra for weekends as its classed as a normal working day think the nhs has been lucky in that regard but it could be time for the nhs to move with the times i know this might not be a popular view dont intend to offend just my opinion(male)"
There are surgeries over the weekend that are trauma but not emergency. For example hip fractures are not classed as and emergency and are usually carried out the next day but sometimes the list was so full or emergencies came in so some would have to wait until the day after. So surgeons etc do work weekends and many are on the ward before 8am and are still wandering around talking to patients out of surgery at 8pm.
I can only talk from experience that I have seen and will not be the same for everywhere. |
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By *un44Man
over a year ago
GLASGOW |
"Who are all these NHS abusers?
Who are all the others?"
Have you ever been in casualty? Watch doctors, nurses and staff being physical and verbally abused, those who claim to be sick and cant work but will happily claim money and float between the pub and the bookies all day. The list of abusers of the system goes on and on yet we keep handing out money that should be spent elsewhere. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Who are all these NHS abusers?
Who are all the others?
Have you ever been in casualty? Watch doctors, nurses and staff being physical and verbally abused, those who claim to be sick and cant work but will happily claim money and float between the pub and the bookies all day. The list of abusers of the system goes on and on yet we keep handing out money that should be spent elsewhere. "
Are they injuring themselves in the pub or the bookies? |
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An interesting idea but with so many real world hurdles that it would take a decade and billions to get over them.
More wards for post op= bigger or more hospitals.
More highly skilled staff at all levels = years of planning and investment if you can find the people wanting to do it.
8 hour shifts sound great but what about when 8 hours isn't enough? I had an 11 hour surgery and I'm sure once I rolled out the theatre that the team didn't just clcok off and go home; reports, handovers ect. It's not like a shift change mid surgery would be a good idea.
The NHS is brilliant staffed with amazing people. Is it perfect no but is still one of the best systems in the world and we need to force our politicians to fund it and support it with more than clapping. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Obviously it's not a one fix for all situations and perhaps my saying a nightshift was stretching the idea to the extreme but I definitely think with some thought , the 9-5 could be changed to 2 shifts, 6-2 and 2-10 instantly doubling the appointment times. Many surgeries don't require " extremely highly skilled specialised" surgeons. Clear the backlog of very routine things, things that come under day surgery , and then home. No bed or extra ward required, with a growing population I reckon this will need to happen eventually. Weekend working is great but it's still just 2 extra days as opposed 4 mon-thur 5 5 if you added a Friday. Would still take years to catch up but could work. |
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They have done and assuming will do things at weekends, when I worked in a surgical ward there were quite often clinics and day surgery case lists at a weekend.
Doing waiting lists 24hrs a day requires a lot of staff not only medical/nursing but theatre staff, lab staff etc.
The plan in Scotland seems to be to utilise the Louisa Jordan to help clear the back log. |
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