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Badon Powell statue
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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What's everyone s thoughts on the former scout leaders statue being removed .
I personally think it wouldn't be right due to what the scouts have achieved and if so the scout symbol should be put in replacement or the current leader bear grylls, But can understand why others would want it removed due to him being a fascist sympathizer . However if we were to remove other national monuments would this not be removing history ? For future generations. I'm fully in disagreement with white supremacists in any country and support the black lives matter campaign. But think that historical structures shouldn't be hidden or demolished if anything should have information added to it whether it is in modern times considered right or wrong and either preserved as warnings or as symbols of hope. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If you are suddenly offended by a statue of a scout leader that’s been there for years without it causing you offence then you have to have a look at yourself.
There are thousands of modern days issues that could be tackled before the pulling down of statues
I’ve not seen protester mention slave labour that still continues in other countries or the people trafficking and forced prostitution etc that happens here. |
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By *ljamMan
over a year ago
Edinburgh |
"If you are suddenly offended by a statue of a scout leader that’s been there for years without it causing you offence then you have to have a look at yourself.
There are thousands of modern days issues that could be tackled before the pulling down of statues
I’ve not seen protester mention slave labour that still continues in other countries or the people trafficking and forced prostitution etc that happens here. "
Modern slavery is a related issue, but it's a very different issue.
We have laws in place against slavery, Scotland even introduced new legislation in 2015. So that's being addressed within our own nation. What can we do to tackle it elsewhere? That takes international cooperation of the type which the UK is involved in.
So there's only so much you have direct control over when it comes to modern slavery. On the other hand, we have direct control over the type of society we want to live in, and the people and events which our society wants to celebrate through public monuments.
I'm not a reactionary on this issue, and I believe every case is different, but my instinct is that celebrating slavers, fascists, and racists is wrong. My own thoughts are that some of these statues should be taken down, some should have panels attached explaining the reality of their subjects, and some should be left alone.
Don't know enough about Baden Powell to decide which is more appropriate in my view, but I see little value in the hot air and outrage which billows from both sides. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you are suddenly offended by a statue of a scout leader that’s been there for years without it causing you offence then you have to have a look at yourself.
There are thousands of modern days issues that could be tackled before the pulling down of statues
I’ve not seen protester mention slave labour that still continues in other countries or the people trafficking and forced prostitution etc that happens here. "
Yes to this. They are only out because there is nothing to do. Everyday the statues offend them as some reminder of a historical event apparently. They then tweet about on their iPhones while in the queue for primark, nothing offensive there.
Also most people don't even who the statue is of anyways and those curious enough to look into it will find out everything anyways.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you are suddenly offended by a statue of a scout leader that’s been there for years without it causing you offence then you have to have a look at yourself.
There are thousands of modern days issues that could be tackled before the pulling down of statues
I’ve not seen protester mention slave labour that still continues in other countries or the people trafficking and forced prostitution etc that happens here.
Modern slavery is a related issue, but it's a very different issue.
We have laws in place against slavery, Scotland even introduced new legislation in 2015. So that's being addressed within our own nation. What can we do to tackle it elsewhere? That takes international cooperation of the type which the UK is involved in.
So there's only so much you have direct control over when it comes to modern slavery. On the other hand, we have direct control over the type of society we want to live in, and the people and events which our society wants to celebrate through public monuments.
I'm not a reactionary on this issue, and I believe every case is different, but my instinct is that celebrating slavers, fascists, and racists is wrong. My own thoughts are that some of these statues should be taken down, some should have panels attached explaining the reality of their subjects, and some should be left alone.
Don't know enough about Baden Powell to decide which is more appropriate in my view, but I see little value in the hot air and outrage which billows from both sides. "
You don’t think you could protest against modern day slavery as much as you could over a statue?
There is no doubt some influential people in our past had what would be considered contentious views in modern day society but that doesn’t mean they also didn’t do good and we should now view them as villains.
Why didn’t anyone want to rename Nelson Mandela place? Or protest against the high street brands using child labour?
I couldn’t have even told you the name of the scout guy until this week and I went to the scouts when I was a boy. Anything I’ve found offensive I haven’t just suddenly found offensive, it’s always bothered me. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone mention the scout guy or Robert peel etc |
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By *ljamMan
over a year ago
Edinburgh |
"If you are suddenly offended by a statue of a scout leader that’s been there for years without it causing you offence then you have to have a look at yourself.
There are thousands of modern days issues that could be tackled before the pulling down of statues
I’ve not seen protester mention slave labour that still continues in other countries or the people trafficking and forced prostitution etc that happens here.
Modern slavery is a related issue, but it's a very different issue.
We have laws in place against slavery, Scotland even introduced new legislation in 2015. So that's being addressed within our own nation. What can we do to tackle it elsewhere? That takes international cooperation of the type which the UK is involved in.
So there's only so much you have direct control over when it comes to modern slavery. On the other hand, we have direct control over the type of society we want to live in, and the people and events which our society wants to celebrate through public monuments.
I'm not a reactionary on this issue, and I believe every case is different, but my instinct is that celebrating slavers, fascists, and racists is wrong. My own thoughts are that some of these statues should be taken down, some should have panels attached explaining the reality of their subjects, and some should be left alone.
Don't know enough about Baden Powell to decide which is more appropriate in my view, but I see little value in the hot air and outrage which billows from both sides.
You don’t think you could protest against modern day slavery as much as you could over a statue?
There is no doubt some influential people in our past had what would be considered contentious views in modern day society but that doesn’t mean they also didn’t do good and we should now view them as villains.
Why didn’t anyone want to rename Nelson Mandela place? Or protest against the high street brands using child labour?
I couldn’t have even told you the name of the scout guy until this week and I went to the scouts when I was a boy. Anything I’ve found offensive I haven’t just suddenly found offensive, it’s always bothered me. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone mention the scout guy or Robert peel etc "
As I said, modern slavery is a different issue, and not one which is as publicly visible as these statues. It has little to do with the debate on the statues.
There are many organisations which support the fight against modern slavery. Ask me about them and I'll tell you I'm firmly against it. Likewise with child labour. Irrelevant to the point at hand, but I'm against that too.
The rest of your post has little to do with my points. I didn't say I'd advocate for treating the subject of these statues as villains, but some of them almost certainly aren't worthy of the celebratory prominence of a public statue, and would be better served in a museum.
At the very least this whole debate has been educational. I actually did know who Baden Powell was despite never having been a scout. I didn't know he supported fascism though, and naturally that has changed my opinion of him.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It is mindless vandalism , pure and simple, conducted by groups of hypocritical people who ,like sheep follow the crowd and have the inability to think for themselves or take responsibility for there own actions. The statues of Baden Powel were erected to celebrate the work he done starting the scout organisations. An organisation that still continues to enhance millions of young people's lives today. It’s not relevant to his political views or moral stances on particular issues. We don’t look to him for a way to live our lives … Of course we wouldn’t look to him as being a role model, and he’s not a role model, he’s a pioneer of the scout movement.”
Anyone who thinks it's OK to tear statues down better get off there sofas and out onto the streets and start tearing down statues of our very own Rabbie Burns. His we chequered past may not be as bad as days gone by slave trading but by today's standards his statutes must come down too if that's how we look back and deal with history.
Raise your glasses to celebrate Rabbie Burns but tear statues down of others . Yeah very good.
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By *tew008Man
over a year ago
edinburgh |
I’ve never been keen on statues of people anyway. I prefer a statue of the achievement, then give the person a plaque attached to it. Avoids the whole issue around idolizing the person. Everyone is flawed.
Statues are distraction from the actual issues but hey, who cares. |
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By *ljamMan
over a year ago
Edinburgh |
"I’ve never been keen on statues of people anyway. I prefer a statue of the achievement, then give the person a plaque attached to it. Avoids the whole issue around idolizing the person. Everyone is flawed.
Statues are distraction from the actual issues but hey, who cares."
Agree with this. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you are suddenly offended by a statue of a scout leader that’s been there for years without it causing you offence then you have to have a look at yourself.
There are thousands of modern days issues that could be tackled before the pulling down of statues
I’ve not seen protester mention slave labour that still continues in other countries or the people trafficking and forced prostitution etc that happens here.
Modern slavery is a related issue, but it's a very different issue.
We have laws in place against slavery, Scotland even introduced new legislation in 2015. So that's being addressed within our own nation. What can we do to tackle it elsewhere? That takes international cooperation of the type which the UK is involved in.
So there's only so much you have direct control over when it comes to modern slavery. On the other hand, we have direct control over the type of society we want to live in, and the people and events which our society wants to celebrate through public monuments.
I'm not a reactionary on this issue, and I believe every case is different, but my instinct is that celebrating slavers, fascists, and racists is wrong. My own thoughts are that some of these statues should be taken down, some should have panels attached explaining the reality of their subjects, and some should be left alone.
Don't know enough about Baden Powell to decide which is more appropriate in my view, but I see little value in the hot air and outrage which billows from both sides.
You don’t think you could protest against modern day slavery as much as you could over a statue?
There is no doubt some influential people in our past had what would be considered contentious views in modern day society but that doesn’t mean they also didn’t do good and we should now view them as villains.
Why didn’t anyone want to rename Nelson Mandela place? Or protest against the high street brands using child labour?
I couldn’t have even told you the name of the scout guy until this week and I went to the scouts when I was a boy. Anything I’ve found offensive I haven’t just suddenly found offensive, it’s always bothered me. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone mention the scout guy or Robert peel etc
As I said, modern slavery is a different issue, and not one which is as publicly visible as these statues. It has little to do with the debate on the statues.
There are many organisations which support the fight against modern slavery. Ask me about them and I'll tell you I'm firmly against it. Likewise with child labour. Irrelevant to the point at hand, but I'm against that too.
The rest of your post has little to do with my points. I didn't say I'd advocate for treating the subject of these statues as villains, but some of them almost certainly aren't worthy of the celebratory prominence of a public statue, and would be better served in a museum.
At the very least this whole debate has been educational. I actually did know who Baden Powell was despite never having been a scout. I didn't know he supported fascism though, and naturally that has changed my opinion of him.
"
What was your opinion of Baden Powell and what have you learned about him that makes his views change your opinion? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It is mindless vandalism , pure and simple, conducted by groups of hypocritical people who ,like sheep follow the crowd and have the inability to think for themselves or take responsibility for there own actions. The statues of Baden Powel were erected to celebrate the work he done starting the scout organisations. An organisation that still continues to enhance millions of young people's lives today. It’s not relevant to his political views or moral stances on particular issues. We don’t look to him for a way to live our lives … Of course we wouldn’t look to him as being a role model, and he’s not a role model, he’s a pioneer of the scout movement.”
Anyone who thinks it's OK to tear statues down better get off there sofas and out onto the streets and start tearing down statues of our very own Rabbie Burns. His we chequered past may not be as bad as days gone by slave trading but by today's standards his statutes must come down too if that's how we look back and deal with history.
Raise your glasses to celebrate Rabbie Burns but tear statues down of others . Yeah very good.
"
Are we agreeing on something 
I’m actually surprised rabbie burns has went this long without criticism as the masons divide opinion but people must be ok with that now |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Are we agreeing on something
I’m actually surprised rabbie burns has went this long without criticism as the masons divide opinion but people must be ok with that now "
Give me 5 minutes I'm sure I will find another thread where I will disagree with you.
As always I just type an honest opinion that's why I get into so much bother. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Are we agreeing on something
I’m actually surprised rabbie burns has went this long without criticism as the masons divide opinion but people must be ok with that now
Give me 5 minutes I'm sure I will find another thread where I will disagree with you.
As always I just type an honest opinion that's why I get into so much bother. "
Yeah it’s the same people that clash but it’s probably due to them having the same types of personalities. |
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"If you are suddenly offended by a statue of a scout leader that’s been there for years without it causing you offence then you have to have a look at yourself.
There are thousands of modern days issues that could be tackled before the pulling down of statues
I’ve not seen protester mention slave labour that still continues in other countries or the people trafficking and forced prostitution etc that happens here. "
It's actually only been there since 2008, to celebrate the centenary of the scouting movement |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you are suddenly offended by a statue of a scout leader that’s been there for years without it causing you offence then you have to have a look at yourself.
There are thousands of modern days issues that could be tackled before the pulling down of statues
I’ve not seen protester mention slave labour that still continues in other countries or the people trafficking and forced prostitution etc that happens here.
It's actually only been there since 2008, to celebrate the centenary of the scouting movement "
12 years without causing offence |
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"If you are suddenly offended by a statue of a scout leader that’s been there for years without it causing you offence then you have to have a look at yourself.
There are thousands of modern days issues that could be tackled before the pulling down of statues
I’ve not seen protester mention slave labour that still continues in other countries or the people trafficking and forced prostitution etc that happens here.
It's actually only been there since 2008, to celebrate the centenary of the scouting movement
12 years without causing offence "
Well, that may not be entirely true, it may well have offended certain people 
But, you would have thought that the local council would have weighed all the pros and cons, and representations, before commissioning it |
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By *hav02Man
over a year ago
Glasgow/London |
ffs.. and now Suddenly statues have become a problem?
People need a new hobby, or need to get back to work 
History is history, destroying a statue won't change that. Otherwise let's destroy Stirling and the Wallace monument too! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you are suddenly offended by a statue of a scout leader that’s been there for years without it causing you offence then you have to have a look at yourself.
There are thousands of modern days issues that could be tackled before the pulling down of statues
I’ve not seen protester mention slave labour that still continues in other countries or the people trafficking and forced prostitution etc that happens here.
It's actually only been there since 2008, to celebrate the centenary of the scouting movement
12 years without causing offence
Well, that may not be entirely true, it may well have offended certain people
But, you would have thought that the local council would have weighed all the pros and cons, and representations, before commissioning it "
To be honest I couldn’t care what statues there are around the country. What bothers me is, take the Robert peel one in Glasgow as an example, that a group decided this statue wasn’t to their liking so want it pulled down. That’s fascist behaviour even if they want to mask their actions by shouting anti fascist slogans
If it’s genuinely causing offence raise it through the proper channels, let it be debated and let the people of Glasgow decide democratically. |
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"ffs.. and now Suddenly statues have become a problem?
People need a new hobby, or need to get back to work
History is history, destroying a statue won't change that. Otherwise let's destroy Stirling and the Wallace monument too! "
I'm sure by today's standards Wallace may not have been a paragon of virtue
And let's face it, its better than a statue of Mel Gibson |
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"If you are suddenly offended by a statue of a scout leader that’s been there for years without it causing you offence then you have to have a look at yourself.
There are thousands of modern days issues that could be tackled before the pulling down of statues
I’ve not seen protester mention slave labour that still continues in other countries or the people trafficking and forced prostitution etc that happens here.
It's actually only been there since 2008, to celebrate the centenary of the scouting movement
12 years without causing offence
Well, that may not be entirely true, it may well have offended certain people
But, you would have thought that the local council would have weighed all the pros and cons, and representations, before commissioning it
To be honest I couldn’t care what statues there are around the country. What bothers me is, take the Robert peel one in Glasgow as an example, that a group decided this statue wasn’t to their liking so want it pulled down. That’s fascist behaviour even if they want to mask their actions by shouting anti fascist slogans
If it’s genuinely causing offence raise it through the proper channels, let it be debated and let the people of Glasgow decide democratically. "
Exactly |
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By *ayscotMan
over a year ago
Central |
My question is where does it end? Slavery is plastered all over the place in history. Is that the end goal, removing pieces of history that people don't like?
Whats next, the colosseum gets took down because its offensive?  |
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"My question is where does it end? Slavery is plastered all over the place in history. Is that the end goal, removing pieces of history that people don't like?
Whats next, the colosseum gets took down because its offensive? "
ISIS made a good go at destroying ancient cities in Syria because they didn't agree with the history |
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All fucked up if ask me, went off the tracks when started destroying peoples place of work and rioting..different engender there..what happened to loving and respecting one another regardless colour? Were all rab tamsoms bairns lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We can't charge the past or forget nor should we, we need to continue educating people that racism is wrong and slavery is bad and still happing now in some parts of the world.
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I know a town around here that has a street named after him and a community centre as well. So what we to do? Change the street name and know down the centre in case if offends someone. Come on FFS this is part of our history that made us who we are. |
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Most of the BLM haven't got a clue about history so it is just rent a mob getting fired up about something that didn't bother them a month ago.
The Nazis were the biggest slave nation in history. Their whole economy revolved round slave labour. The family who own BMW had 50,000 slaves working for them during the war. Their Hanover factory had it own execution yard. Why is no one picketing BMW or Mercedes or all the other companies who benefitted from Jewish slaves as well as all the others? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Most of the BLM haven't got a clue about history so it is just rent a mob getting fired up about something that didn't bother them a month ago.
The Nazis were the biggest slave nation in history. Their whole economy revolved round slave labour. The family who own BMW had 50,000 slaves working for them during the war. Their Hanover factory had it own execution yard. Why is no one picketing BMW or Mercedes or all the other companies who benefitted from Jewish slaves as well as all the others?"
Hugo boss made nazi uniforms. Adi dassler was a Nazi yet the group that went around changing street names In the city centre and charged down North Hanover street at the counter protesters celebrate and welcome Adidas money as they are their football team of choices new strip supplier.
Selective on what to be offended by. |
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