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Cobham, or the start
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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So now a private American company owns a UK defence and aerospace company, sold for a tidy £4 Billion, the deal was announced in the early hours as to not make major news, the current majority Tory Government have said this is one of many deals they can now make.
How's taking back control Brexit fans? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
I don't the issue had anything to do with Europe whatsoever.
It was whether a key supplier to the UK military should fall into foreign ownership.
For the really big UK defence contractors - BAE, Babcock etc - the Government owns a "golden share" to prevent foreign control.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I don't the issue had anything to do with Europe whatsoever.
It was whether a key supplier to the UK military should fall into foreign ownership.
For the really big UK defence contractors - BAE, Babcock etc - the Government owns a "golden share" to prevent foreign control.
"
It's more the hypocrisy of claiming Brexit is about taking back control and sending a message and yet we're already selling off our assets! And yes, that golden share is there for now, but let's see how many billions the conservatives can hold out for. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Well, it's the family who own it who are cashing in. It's not a state asset."
Approved by the Conservatives to allow it to be stripped and take over. It was one of our aerospace forces, are you just shrugging this off? |
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I’m fine with this, it is no different to Apple be big sold to a uk owner. It’s a private company which happens to supply uk military and aviation services (among many other companies). It also provides services to military and aviation services all over their world especially in the states.
This has bugger all to do with the recent election or the government.
It was never a uk asset but a private one ! |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I’m fine with this, it is no different to Apple be big sold to a uk owner. It’s a private company which happens to supply uk military and aviation services (among many other companies). It also provides services to military and aviation services all over their world especially in the states.
This has bugger all to do with the recent election or the government.
It was never a uk asset but a private one ! "
So why the fuss over Huawei?
You don't think anything has strategic value for a 'sovereign' country?
The inverted commas are because the word apparently means different things depending on whom people support without question  |
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The government did a thorough examination of the national security implications before allowing the deal to happen.
They decided that profit for a few was more important than national security for the many.
Cobham manufacture a device that allows any government to track a person's location via their phone - whilst they remain unaware of it.
There's a lot of money to be made out of providing democracies and dictatorships with that sort of power.
That money will now, presumably, no longer benefit the UK as much as it used to. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"This deal did not happen overnight,probably been negotiated for years,the election result was irrevilent to this deal"
It was not irrelevant to the approval of the deal.
Approval being given at 22:00 on the Friday before Christmas.
A curious time unless it were being buried. |
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"This deal did not happen overnight,probably been negotiated for years,the election result was irrevilent to this deal
It was not irrelevant to the approval of the deal.
Approval being given at 22:00 on the Friday before Christmas.
A curious time unless it were being buried."
How do you bury a story at 2200? Surely it sticks out like a sore thumb?! |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Strange, most of our defence stuff is French. Be interesting to see what they make if it."
Really? Most? Excluding IT these are the MODs biggest suppliers:
Boeing, BAE Systems, Rolls-Royce, Airbus, Lockheed Martin, Thales, QinetiQ, Leonardo, MBDA, Babcock, Atomic Weapons Establishment,COBHAM, General Dynamics, Raytheon
Not many completely British, but which ones are French? |
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"So now a private American company owns a UK defence and aerospace company, sold for a tidy £4 Billion, the deal was announced in the early hours as to not make major news, the current majority Tory Government have said this is one of many deals they can now make.
How's taking back control Brexit fans?"
So fuckin what |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So now a private American company owns a UK defence and aerospace company, sold for a tidy £4 Billion, the deal was announced in the early hours as to not make major news, the current majority Tory Government have said this is one of many deals they can now make.
How's taking back control Brexit fans?
So fuckin what"
There are somethings we agree on, some we don't. But I always like your directness  |
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"Strange, most of our defence stuff is French. Be interesting to see what they make if it.
Really? Most? Excluding IT these are the MODs biggest suppliers:
Boeing, BAE Systems, Rolls-Royce, Airbus, Lockheed Martin, Thales, QinetiQ, Leonardo, MBDA, Babcock, Atomic Weapons Establishment,COBHAM, General Dynamics, Raytheon
Not many completely British, but which ones are French?"
In these days of cyber attacks and other "electrical" warfare, it's pretty naive to say "excluding IT"... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"So fuckin what"
Ahh the expected response from a Tory supporter. The "I don't give a fuck as long as my team has won" attitude, will you be saying the same about these more deals they've admitted to making? Would you say the same about the NHS? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Strange, most of our defence stuff is French. Be interesting to see what they make if it.
Really? Most? Excluding IT these are the MODs biggest suppliers:
Boeing, BAE Systems, Rolls-Royce, Airbus, Lockheed Martin, Thales, QinetiQ, Leonardo, MBDA, Babcock, Atomic Weapons Establishment,COBHAM, General Dynamics, Raytheon
Not many completely British, but which ones are French?
In these days of cyber attacks and other "electrical" warfare, it's pretty naive to say "excluding IT"... "
That answered the first question.
Oh wait, no it didn't
HP, Leidos, DXC, Ultra Electronics, and KBR
Which ones are French?  |
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"Strange, most of our defence stuff is French. Be interesting to see what they make if it.
Really? Most? Excluding IT these are the MODs biggest suppliers:
Boeing, BAE Systems, Rolls-Royce, Airbus, Lockheed Martin, Thales, QinetiQ, Leonardo, MBDA, Babcock, Atomic Weapons Establishment,COBHAM, General Dynamics, Raytheon
Not many completely British, but which ones are French?"
But to answer your question, Thales. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Strange, most of our defence stuff is French. Be interesting to see what they make if it.
Really? Most? Excluding IT these are the MODs biggest suppliers:
Boeing, BAE Systems, Rolls-Royce, Airbus, Lockheed Martin, Thales, QinetiQ, Leonardo, MBDA, Babcock, Atomic Weapons Establishment,COBHAM, General Dynamics, Raytheon
Not many completely British, but which ones are French?
But to answer your question, Thales."
That is "most of our defence stuff" then?
Did you mean "some"?
Why would you only interested in the opinion of one defence contractor that happens to be French?
Why not the Americans who we already by a lot from and might possibly find ourselves buying more from when we want to conclude a trade deal with the US? |
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"Strange, most of our defence stuff is French. Be interesting to see what they make if it.
Really? Most? Excluding IT these are the MODs biggest suppliers:
Boeing, BAE Systems, Rolls-Royce, Airbus, Lockheed Martin, Thales, QinetiQ, Leonardo, MBDA, Babcock, Atomic Weapons Establishment,COBHAM, General Dynamics, Raytheon
Not many completely British, but which ones are French?
But to answer your question, Thales.
That is "most of our defence stuff" then?
Did you mean "some"?
Why would you only interested in the opinion of one defence contractor that happens to be French?
Why not the Americans who we already by a lot from and might possibly find ourselves buying more from when we want to conclude a trade deal with the US?"
Thales is in everything... |
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"So fuckin what
Ahh the expected response from a Tory supporter. The "I don't give a fuck as long as my team has won" attitude, will you be saying the same about these more deals they've admitted to making? Would you say the same about the NHS?"
They’ve done more trade deals ???? Yay . The NHS?... the thing being sold off?. People still believe that labour porky pie ? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Strange, most of our defence stuff is French. Be interesting to see what they make if it.
Really? Most? Excluding IT these are the MODs biggest suppliers:
Boeing, BAE Systems, Rolls-Royce, Airbus, Lockheed Martin, Thales, QinetiQ, Leonardo, MBDA, Babcock, Atomic Weapons Establishment,COBHAM, General Dynamics, Raytheon
Not many completely British, but which ones are French?
But to answer your question, Thales.
That is "most of our defence stuff" then?
Did you mean "some"?
Why would you only interested in the opinion of one defence contractor that happens to be French?
Why not the Americans who we already by a lot from and might possibly find ourselves buying more from when we want to conclude a trade deal with the US?
Thales is in everything..."
Ah. Is it an Illuminati thing? |
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"Strange, most of our defence stuff is French. Be interesting to see what they make if it.
Really? Most? Excluding IT these are the MODs biggest suppliers:
Boeing, BAE Systems, Rolls-Royce, Airbus, Lockheed Martin, Thales, QinetiQ, Leonardo, MBDA, Babcock, Atomic Weapons Establishment,COBHAM, General Dynamics, Raytheon
Not many completely British, but which ones are French?
But to answer your question, Thales.
That is "most of our defence stuff" then?
Did you mean "some"?
Why would you only interested in the opinion of one defence contractor that happens to be French?
Why not the Americans who we already by a lot from and might possibly find ourselves buying more from when we want to conclude a trade deal with the US?
Thales is in everything...
Ah. Is it an Illuminati thing? "
Nope. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Strange, most of our defence stuff is French. Be interesting to see what they make if it.
Really? Most? Excluding IT these are the MODs biggest suppliers:
Boeing, BAE Systems, Rolls-Royce, Airbus, Lockheed Martin, Thales, QinetiQ, Leonardo, MBDA, Babcock, Atomic Weapons Establishment,COBHAM, General Dynamics, Raytheon
Not many completely British, but which ones are French?
But to answer your question, Thales.
That is "most of our defence stuff" then?
Did you mean "some"?
Why would you only interested in the opinion of one defence contractor that happens to be French?
Why not the Americans who we already by a lot from and might possibly find ourselves buying more from when we want to conclude a trade deal with the US?
Thales is in everything...
Ah. Is it an Illuminati thing?
Nope. "
Thank you. That was helpful. |
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"Strange, most of our defence stuff is French. Be interesting to see what they make if it.
Really? Most? Excluding IT these are the MODs biggest suppliers:
Boeing, BAE Systems, Rolls-Royce, Airbus, Lockheed Martin, Thales, QinetiQ, Leonardo, MBDA, Babcock, Atomic Weapons Establishment,COBHAM, General Dynamics, Raytheon
Not many completely British, but which ones are French?
But to answer your question, Thales.
That is "most of our defence stuff" then?
Did you mean "some"?
Why would you only interested in the opinion of one defence contractor that happens to be French?
Why not the Americans who we already by a lot from and might possibly find ourselves buying more from when we want to conclude a trade deal with the US?
Thales is in everything...
Ah. Is it an Illuminati thing?
Nope.
Thank you. That was helpful."
I'm not here to help you. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Strange, most of our defence stuff is French. Be interesting to see what they make if it.
Really? Most? Excluding IT these are the MODs biggest suppliers:
Boeing, BAE Systems, Rolls-Royce, Airbus, Lockheed Martin, Thales, QinetiQ, Leonardo, MBDA, Babcock, Atomic Weapons Establishment,COBHAM, General Dynamics, Raytheon
Not many completely British, but which ones are French?
But to answer your question, Thales.
That is "most of our defence stuff" then?
Did you mean "some"?
Why would you only interested in the opinion of one defence contractor that happens to be French?
Why not the Americans who we already by a lot from and might possibly find ourselves buying more from when we want to conclude a trade deal with the US?
Thales is in everything...
Ah. Is it an Illuminati thing?
Nope.
Thank you. That was helpful.
I'm not here to help you. "
...or anyone else.
What was your actual point? |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Having looked at this today a very bad and stupid move by the government.No problem with selling to another company like say Boing but to an equity company,pretty short sighted not good"
With what reasoning do you say that?
Maybe the Equity firm wants to drive the Chobham forwards to bigger and better things. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Having looked at this today a very bad and stupid move by the government.No problem with selling to another company like say Boing but to an equity company,pretty short sighted not good
With what reasoning do you say that?
Maybe the Equity firm wants to drive the Chobham forwards to bigger and better things. "
Advent have borrowed £2.8bn of the £4bn purchase price. This debt will be loaded on the company to be paid back with interest.
£2.8bn borrowed to spend on r&d and capital equipment may see a return for a company over time. £2.8bn borrowed to give away gives no benefit.
Do you think that Advent will provide £2.8bn of management expertise that will increase profits by loan+interest+new value over even 10 years? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Having looked at this today a very bad and stupid move by the government.No problem with selling to another company like say Boing but to an equity company,pretty short sighted not good
With what reasoning do you say that?
Maybe the Equity firm wants to drive the Chobham forwards to bigger and better things.
Advent have borrowed £2.8bn of the £4bn purchase price. This debt will be loaded on the company to be paid back with interest.
£2.8bn borrowed to spend on r&d and capital equipment may see a return for a company over time. £2.8bn borrowed to give away gives no benefit.
Do you think that Advent will provide £2.8bn of management expertise that will increase profits by loan+interest+new value over even 10 years?"
10 years should be a profit horizon for a large engineering group like this. Advent will not be that patient so is likely to want a return in between 3-5 years so will want to extract several hundred million from the company in that time and either leave the debt or make sales to cover it over that timeframe. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Having looked at this today a very bad and stupid move by the government.No problem with selling to another company like say Boing but to an equity company,pretty short sighted not good
With what reasoning do you say that?
Maybe the Equity firm wants to drive the Chobham forwards to bigger and better things. "
Equity companies tend to be asset strippers |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Having looked at this today a very bad and stupid move by the government.No problem with selling to another company like say Boing but to an equity company,pretty short sighted not good
With what reasoning do you say that?
Maybe the Equity firm wants to drive the Chobham forwards to bigger and better things. Equity companies tend to be asset strippers"
And so it begins..... |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"To give the Cobham workforce an undertaking, that 90% of them will still be employed in 5 years time, is a pretty big thing to do in term of the Defence Industry! "
What did Nestle say about Cadbury's? |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"To give the Cobham workforce an undertaking, that 90% of them will still be employed in 5 years time, is a pretty big thing to do in term of the Defence Industry!
What did Nestle say about Cadbury's?"
I don't know. I assume you mean Kraft taking over Cadbury? |
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"To give the Cobham workforce an undertaking, that 90% of them will still be employed in 5 years time, is a pretty big thing to do in term of the Defence Industry!
What did Nestle say about Cadbury's?
I don't know. I assume you mean Kraft taking over Cadbury? "
like Nestle taking over Rowntrees |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To give the Cobham workforce an undertaking, that 90% of them will still be employed in 5 years time, is a pretty big thing to do in term of the Defence Industry!
What did Nestle say about Cadbury's?
I don't know. I assume you mean Kraft taking over Cadbury? "
Being bought out by a competitor is rather different though to what is actually going on here |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To give the Cobham workforce an undertaking, that 90% of them will still be employed in 5 years time, is a pretty big thing to do in term of the Defence Industry!
What did Nestle say about Cadbury's?
I don't know. I assume you mean Kraft taking over Cadbury? like Nestle taking over Rowntrees"
Yes kraft bought out cadbury and shifted production to Poland and broke their promise to keep the cadbury plant down this way open. The directors had previously appointed an american chief executive who groomed them into selling off the company to nestle kraft and he and they all had a very nice tidy pay out while taking advantage of a new purpose built factory and eager workforce in Poland which was probably enabled by the EU. Thats business though isnt it? Or just plain old greed? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"To give the Cobham workforce an undertaking, that 90% of them will still be employed in 5 years time, is a pretty big thing to do in term of the Defence Industry!
What did Nestle say about Cadbury's?
I don't know. I assume you mean Kraft taking over Cadbury? "
Kraft. Apologies.
They made a promise to keep production in the UK which they promptly broke. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"This deal did not happen overnight,probably been negotiated for years,the election result was irrevilent to this dealyou are talking to a brick wall trying to tell the moaners anything "
Why was the decision released at 22:00 on a Friday night before Christmas.
Is that usual unless there is something to hide? |
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"This deal did not happen overnight,probably been negotiated for years,the election result was irrevilent to this dealyou are talking to a brick wall trying to tell the moaners anything
Why was the decision released at 22:00 on a Friday night before Christmas.
Is that usual unless there is something to hide?"
Yes why ?. I mean; why?? Why ??? Why ?? Erm..... but why ???? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"This deal did not happen overnight,probably been negotiated for years,the election result was irrevilent to this dealyou are talking to a brick wall trying to tell the moaners anything
Why was the decision released at 22:00 on a Friday night before Christmas.
Is that usual unless there is something to hide?
Yes why ?. I mean; why?? Why ??? Why ?? Erm..... but why ???? "
Asking questions is truly a terrible thing.
Best just to accept and do as you're told
Do you have an answer? |
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"To give the Cobham workforce an undertaking, that 90% of them will still be employed in 5 years time, is a pretty big thing to do in term of the Defence Industry! "
Some years ago i worked for a defence company that was taken over by a competitor. Everyone was given a cast iron guarantee that our jobs were totally secure for a minimum of two years. During that period the intellectual property and sundry contracts were transferred to the new owners. At two years and one day everybody was given redundancy notices and the company was closed down. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So now a private American company owns a UK defence and aerospace company, sold for a tidy £4 Billion, the deal was announced in the early hours as to not make major news, the current majority Tory Government have said this is one of many deals they can now make.
How's taking back control Brexit fans?"
So many people have concern fatigue, People cannot be arsed. |
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"To give the Cobham workforce an undertaking, that 90% of them will still be employed in 5 years time, is a pretty big thing to do in term of the Defence Industry!
What did Nestle say about Cadbury's?
I don't know. I assume you mean Kraft taking over Cadbury? like Nestle taking over Rowntrees
Yes kraft bought out cadbury and shifted production to Poland and broke their promise to keep the cadbury plant down this way open. The directors had previously appointed an american chief executive who groomed them into selling off the company to nestle kraft and he and they all had a very nice tidy pay out while taking advantage of a new purpose built factory and eager workforce in Poland which was probably enabled by the EU. Thats business though isnt it? Or just plain old greed? "
Poland? Surely we should have been pleased that production remained within the EU? |
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"To give the Cobham workforce an undertaking, that 90% of them will still be employed in 5 years time, is a pretty big thing to do in term of the Defence Industry!
What did Nestle say about Cadbury's?
I don't know. I assume you mean Kraft taking over Cadbury? like Nestle taking over Rowntrees
Yes kraft bought out cadbury and shifted production to Poland and broke their promise to keep the cadbury plant down this way open. The directors had previously appointed an american chief executive who groomed them into selling off the company to nestle kraft and he and they all had a very nice tidy pay out while taking advantage of a new purpose built factory and eager workforce in Poland which was probably enabled by the EU. Thats business though isnt it? Or just plain old greed?
Poland? Surely we should have been pleased that production remained within the EU? "
You do realise that Cadburys was taken over during the last Labour government.
The deal was done 10th January 2010! |
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