"If Scotland don't get a vote opportunity until after we have left the EU.
Would they still want a vote if they had to wait to join the EU ?"
Scotland are not in the EU the UK is, so it doesn't matter.
If they are part of the UK when it leaves, Scotland is out of the EU.
If they leave the UK whilst the UK is in the EU Scotland is out of the EU.
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"If Scotland don't get a vote opportunity until after we have left the EU.
Would they still want a vote if they had to wait to join the EU ?"
My concerns with IndyRef2 is that it'll just be like Brexit. A Yes/No vote where we don't actually know what Yes means. I seriously hope that if we go down this route, the SNP get a plan in place first with regards to future trade relationships and rejoining the EU. It would need to extend beyond that too and show how Scotland could increase investment and strengthen the economy. Also, it's important that the UK has negotiated a deal with the EU that would work for a Scotland that subsequently rejoins the EU. It would be a bit risky to join a EU that has no deal with the UK.
In term of waiting though, I believe Scotland will be fast tracked. We didn't vote to leave. |
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"If Scotland don't get a vote opportunity until after we have left the EU.
Would they still want a vote if they had to wait to join the EU ?
My concerns with IndyRef2 is that it'll just be like Brexit. A Yes/No vote where we don't actually know what Yes means. I seriously hope that if we go down this route, the SNP get a plan in place first with regards to future trade relationships and rejoining the EU. It would need to extend beyond that too and show how Scotland could increase investment and strengthen the economy. Also, it's important that the UK has negotiated a deal with the EU that would work for a Scotland that subsequently rejoins the EU. It would be a bit risky to join a EU that has no deal with the UK.
In term of waiting though, I believe Scotland will be fast tracked. We didn't vote to leave."
No way can I see Scotland being fast tracked into the EU.
Spain will block that in my opinion. |
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"If Scotland don't get a vote opportunity until after we have left the EU.
Would they still want a vote if they had to wait to join the EU ?
My concerns with IndyRef2 is that it'll just be like Brexit. A Yes/No vote where we don't actually know what Yes means. I seriously hope that if we go down this route, the SNP get a plan in place first with regards to future trade relationships and rejoining the EU. It would need to extend beyond that too and show how Scotland could increase investment and strengthen the economy. Also, it's important that the UK has negotiated a deal with the EU that would work for a Scotland that subsequently rejoins the EU. It would be a bit risky to join a EU that has no deal with the UK.
In term of waiting though, I believe Scotland will be fast tracked. We didn't vote to leave.
No way can I see Scotland being fast tracked into the EU.
Spain will block that in my opinion."
What makes you think that? |
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"If Scotland don't get a vote opportunity until after we have left the EU.
Would they still want a vote if they had to wait to join the EU ?
My concerns with IndyRef2 is that it'll just be like Brexit. A Yes/No vote where we don't actually know what Yes means. I seriously hope that if we go down this route, the SNP get a plan in place first with regards to future trade relationships and rejoining the EU. It would need to extend beyond that too and show how Scotland could increase investment and strengthen the economy. Also, it's important that the UK has negotiated a deal with the EU that would work for a Scotland that subsequently rejoins the EU. It would be a bit risky to join a EU that has no deal with the UK.
In term of waiting though, I believe Scotland will be fast tracked. We didn't vote to leave.
No way can I see Scotland being fast tracked into the EU.
Spain will block that in my opinion.
What makes you think that?"
They've previously said they would so as not to encourage the Catalonians. |
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"If Scotland don't get a vote opportunity until after we have left the EU.
Would they still want a vote if they had to wait to join the EU ?
My concerns with IndyRef2 is that it'll just be like Brexit. A Yes/No vote where we don't actually know what Yes means. I seriously hope that if we go down this route, the SNP get a plan in place first with regards to future trade relationships and rejoining the EU. It would need to extend beyond that too and show how Scotland could increase investment and strengthen the economy. Also, it's important that the UK has negotiated a deal with the EU that would work for a Scotland that subsequently rejoins the EU. It would be a bit risky to join a EU that has no deal with the UK.
In term of waiting though, I believe Scotland will be fast tracked. We didn't vote to leave.
No way can I see Scotland being fast tracked into the EU.
Spain will block that in my opinion.
What makes you think that?
They've previously said they would so as not to encourage the Catalonians."
It's a completely different situation. Scotland has been dragged out of the EU against the will of the Scottish people. The reasons for independence will be because of this.
If the Catalonians split from Spain they would leave the EU by choice.
Also, a Spanish diplomat stated that Spain would not block Scotland joining the EU. He was subsequently fired. Can only assume that this as because this wasn't the official line. I am sure that the EU and member states would put pressure on the Spanish. Allowing Scotland to rejoin is morally the right thing to do. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
The eu has said that there will be no new members for at least 5 years.Albania,Montenegro and north Macedonia have just been refused recently.Poor old macedonia even changed its name to north as greece insisted on it before they join. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Spain has never stated it would block Scotland joining the EU.
Scotland, as part of the UK, will leave the UK on 31st January 2020. Come a vote for independence, it would negotiate to return. All the structures are in place, or will have been in place, making it a different proposition to any of the countries mentioned. |
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"The eu has said that there will be no new members for at least 5 years.Albania,Montenegro and north Macedonia have just been refused recently.Poor old macedonia even changed its name to north as greece insisted on it before they join. "
IF they've said that, can you link to it? I am sure the link will also provide a rationale. |
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"Spain has never stated it would block Scotland joining the EU.
Scotland, as part of the UK, will leave the UK on 31st January 2020. Come a vote for independence, it would negotiate to return. All the structures are in place, or will have been in place, making it a different proposition to any of the countries mentioned."
Exactly. We are already 100% aligned to rules and laws. No other "new" country will be. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If Scotland don't get a vote opportunity until after we have left the EU.
Would they still want a vote if they had to wait to join the EU ?
My concerns with IndyRef2 is that it'll just be like Brexit. A Yes/No vote where we don't actually know what Yes means. I seriously hope that if we go down this route, the SNP get a plan in place first with regards to future trade relationships and rejoining the EU. It would need to extend beyond that too and show how Scotland could increase investment and strengthen the economy. Also, it's important that the UK has negotiated a deal with the EU that would work for a Scotland that subsequently rejoins the EU. It would be a bit risky to join a EU that has no deal with the UK.
In term of waiting though, I believe Scotland will be fast tracked. We didn't vote to leave.
No way can I see Scotland being fast tracked into the EU.
Spain will block that in my opinion.
What makes you think that?
They've previously said they would so as not to encourage the Catalonians.
It's a completely different situation. Scotland has been dragged out of the EU against the will of the Scottish people. The reasons for independence will be because of this.
If the Catalonians split from Spain they would leave the EU by choice.
Also, a Spanish diplomat stated that Spain would not block Scotland joining the EU. He was subsequently fired. Can only assume that this as because this wasn't the official line. I am sure that the EU and member states would put pressure on the Spanish. Allowing Scotland to rejoin is morally the right thing to do."
Nothing morally about it |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
re
"The eu has said that there will be no new members for at least 5 years.Albania,Montenegro and north Macedonia have just been refused recently.Poor old macedonia even changed its name to north as greece insisted on it before they join.
IF they've said that, can you link to it? I am sure the link will also provide a rationale."
sure https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Future_enlargement_of_the_European_U...
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The clamour for Indyref2 is being driven to mask Scotland's failings at the hand of SNP on Health and public services.
I think that before a 2nd ref that a proper economic assessment be done to establish how they would fair given they receive c. £6k per head from Westminster in Barnet Formula subsidy and free uni education. What public services they would run and how they would fund them and currency policy is it to be £ or € & control over interest rates.
That way Scots can establish if they would be finacially better of or not. Remove the passion and look at the facts. |
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"reThe eu has said that there will be no new members for at least 5 years.Albania,Montenegro and north Macedonia have just been refused recently.Poor old macedonia even changed its name to north as greece insisted on it before they join.
IF they've said that, can you link to it? I am sure the link will also provide a rationale.sure https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Future_enlargement_of_the_European_U...
"
Thanks for sharing the link...
Unfortunately, I can't see any reference to 5 years. I can see a reference of a comment in 2014 by Junker stating that "the EU had no plans to expand before 2019". Given that there won't be a Scottish Referendum in the next 17 days, I don't think we need to worry too much about that.
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"The clamour for Indyref2 is being driven to mask Scotland's failings at the hand of SNP on Health and public services.
I think that before a 2nd ref that a proper economic assessment be done to establish how they would fair given they receive c. £6k per head from Westminster in Barnet Formula subsidy and free uni education. What public services they would run and how they would fund them and currency policy is it to be £ or € & control over interest rates.
That way Scots can establish if they would be finacially better of or not. Remove the passion and look at the facts."
Completely agree with most of this. Brexit referendum was given before there was any real analysis done on the impact financially. The SNP needs to demonstrate how an independent Scotland would look and what it would do to attract business from outside (including pinching those wanting to leave a post-Brexit UK). Also, how it would go about attracting young remainers and talented EU citizens escaping the UK. There will be plenty of graduates with a couple of years of experience wanting to leave the UK but unable to work abroad because of the language barrier. Scotland solves a problem for them and businesses can take advantage. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"reThe eu has said that there will be no new members for at least 5 years.Albania,Montenegro and north Macedonia have just been refused recently.Poor old macedonia even changed its name to north as greece insisted on it before they join.
IF they've said that, can you link to it? I am sure the link will also provide a rationale.sure https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Future_enlargement_of_the_European_U...
Thanks for sharing the link...
Unfortunately, I can't see any reference to 5 years. I can see a reference of a comment in 2014 by Junker stating that "the EU had no plans to expand before 2019". Given that there won't be a Scottish Referendum in the next 17 days, I don't think we need to worry too much about that.
"
You should have carried on reading about the countries i mentioned, the next 3 in line will not be allowed until 2025 at the earliest.So i would take that as no one will be joining for just over the next 5 years and if you carry on reading these applied in 2004 what makes you think scotland will jump this queue? |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
" what makes you think scotland will jump this queue?
Politics.
If the EU believes the collapse of the United Kingdom is in the strategic interest of its member states.
"
Why would they want the collapse of the uk that doesnt make sense at all.You are beginning to sound like some of the leavers on here a while back who wanted the eu to fail.  |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
Why would they want the collapse of the uk that doesnt make sense at all.You are beginning to sound like some of the leavers on here a while back who wanted the eu to fail. "
That's my point.
There are people on the right whose objective goes beyond simply Brexit to threaten the destruction of the EU.
If that view is prevalent in the Conservative Party, and manifests itself in the behaviour of the UK Government, perhaps in a tripartite alliance with Trump and Putin, then yes it will be in the strategic interest of the EU to remove that threat by facilitating the collapse of the UK.
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"
Why would they want the collapse of the uk that doesnt make sense at all.You are beginning to sound like some of the leavers on here a while back who wanted the eu to fail.
That's my point.
There are people on the right whose objective goes beyond simply Brexit to threaten the destruction of the EU.
If that view is prevalent in the Conservative Party, and manifests itself in the behaviour of the UK Government, perhaps in a tripartite alliance with Trump and Putin, then yes it will be in the strategic interest of the EU to remove that threat by facilitating the collapse of the UK.
"
Who are these people on the right any names? i was talking about a couple of people on a swingers site. The uk would not want the collapse of its nearest trading partner no more than the eu would want it.You seem to be mixing up politicians with a few single minded people on here. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
An independent UK is always going to struggle to escape the shadow of the EU, for the simple reason the bloc is 10 times bigger in every sense.
For those infused with a sense of British exceptionalism about the UK's place in the world, that will soon become a source of great frustration.
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
Who are these people on the right any names? i was talking about a couple of people on a swingers site. The uk would not want the collapse of its nearest trading partner no more than the eu would want it.You seem to be mixing up politicians with a few single minded people on here."
I think you are being naive about the exceptionalism that exists within some quarters of the Conservative Party.
I'm sure it will not take long to find statements from Conservative politicians who see the EU as the devil incarnate.
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"An independent UK is always going to struggle to escape the shadow of the EU, for the simple reason the bloc is 10 times bigger in every sense.
For those infused with a sense of British exceptionalism about the UK's place in the world, that will soon become a source of great frustration.
"
Dont agree at all but love the conspiracy theories coming out so soon. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Conspiracy theory?
I think you need to looking up its meaning.
No, the question was asked - why would it be in the interests of the EU to fast-track Scotland's accession.
To quote Alex Ferguson, if it helps to quieten the "noisy neighbour".
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Conspiracy theory?
I think you need to looking up its meaning.
No, the question was asked - why would it be in the interests of the EU to fast-track Scotland's accession.
To quote Alex Ferguson, if it helps to quieten the "noisy neighbour".
"
Its not a football match,do you think after jan 31st the eu will not want to sell us anything anymore? |
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Nobody takes Scottish currency seriously now. We live there and hear Scottish people asking Scottish banks for English currency to take abroad.
Just think what would happen with the 'Thistle' or whatever unit is decided on.
Oil is worth a fraction of what it was for the first referendum.......Indyref2 is a recipe for disaster.
Thankfully we have a choice of homes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Nobody takes Scottish currency seriously now. We live there and hear Scottish people asking Scottish banks for English currency to take abroad.
Just think what would happen with the 'Thistle' or whatever unit is decided on.
Oil is worth a fraction of what it was for the first referendum.......Indyref2 is a recipe for disaster.
Thankfully we have a choice of homes."
Scottish money isn't money,it's a promissory. The bank of England agreed to treat it like sterling but it's not. Next time you're in the bank as for sterling as it's the only legal tender in the UK.
As for leaving the UK mist polls I've seen are sitting at 56 percent remain in the UK. People know the UK is our biggest market and only the bank if England guarantees your savings and covers Scotland's debt. The Scottish government has no history of doing either.
Apart from all that the vote in 2014 was once in a generation,35yrs so Boris will honour this and put sturgeon in her cage no matter how often she dons the mantle of victimhood. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
Scottish money isn't money,it's a promissory. The bank of England agreed to treat it like sterling but it's not. Next time you're in the bank as for sterling as it's the only legal tender in the UK.d."
"Legal tender" is a term applicable only in court, regards some kind of debt.
We live in a the single currency zone.
Four nations, all sharing the same currency.
Monetary policy controlled from the centre.
Three banks in Northern Ireland issue Sterling, four in Scotland, and one in England.
Each is as good as the other.
Unless you know different?
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Conspiracy theory?
I think you need to looking up its meaning.
No, the question was asked - why would it be in the interests of the EU to fast-track Scotland's accession.
To quote Alex Ferguson, if it helps to quieten the "noisy neighbour".
Its not a football match,do you think after jan 31st the eu will not want to sell us anything anymore?"
Politics and trade are two different things.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Scottish money isn't money,it's a promissory. The bank of England agreed to treat it like sterling but it's not. Next time you're in the bank as for sterling as it's the only legal tender in the UK.d.
"Legal tender" is a term applicable only in court, regards some kind of debt.
We live in a the single currency zone.
Four nations, all sharing the same currency.
Monetary policy controlled from the centre.
Three banks in Northern Ireland issue Sterling, four in Scotland, and one in England.
Each is as good as the other.
Unless you know different?
"
As far as I know and Google backs me up so far is that only Money minted by The Bank of England has legal tender status. That's why shops don't have to accept Scottish notes even though they obviously are worth the same as BOE issued notes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The term "legal tender" has been taken from court cases of debt and applied to generally currency exchange. It's the ultimate in "fake news"."
Yes but the only money that can be classed as legal tender is coins and notes issued by the BOE. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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In England and Wales, it’s Royal Mint coins and Bank of England notes. In Scotland and Northern Ireland it’s only Royal Mint coins and not banknotes.
There, from the BOE  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think I’m right in saying English bank notes are not legal tender in Scotland. They’re still universally accepted, though."
Indeed but coins are funnily enough |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
Legal tender is all to do with the promise of payment.
Should the Clydesdale Bank suddenly go bust, then all their banknotes would become worthless. The BoE would have no compulsion to pay any value on these notes, and it would probably be illegal to do so, and that's why many retailers in England refuse to take them. |
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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago
London - till 25th |
"The seven Scottish and Northern Ireland banks must, by law, set aside assets that are worth at least the value of all of the banknotes they have in circulation.
This ensures that people with genuine banknotes issued by the seven banks receive a level of protection similar to people who have genuine Bank of England banknotes."
From the Bank of England website. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"No, that’s not true. Alistair Darling put in place a guarantee of payment for both English and Scottish notes in the late 80’s I think. "
Just checked it. It was Alistair Darling in 2009.
The adage "you learn something new everyday" is true in this case. |
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""The seven Scottish and Northern Ireland banks must, by law, set aside assets that are worth at least the value of all of the banknotes they have in circulation.
This ensures that people with genuine banknotes issued by the seven banks receive a level of protection similar to people who have genuine Bank of England banknotes."
From the Bank of England website."
I wonder how many banknotes that is? Is it fewer now than it was 10 years ago? More?
Are they actually able to do it?
Presumably, they can, if it's a legal requirement? |
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