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what happens to the state of the union now?
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
with tories basically winning with english nationalism, the SNP winning big in scotland, and Northern ireland about to be cut off in johnson's brexit deal....
is the union basically now dead?
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
I suspect the rubicon will be crossed on January 31.
After that, the union will be pulled in 3 different directions.
Is there anyone in Johnson's circle wise enough to spot the risks, to understand the choices and put the UK Government on the front foot instead of the back foot?
She was never in his circle, but Ruth Davidson was one of those wise enough.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"with tories basically winning with english nationalism, the SNP winning big in scotland, and Northern ireland about to be cut off in johnson's brexit deal....
is the union basically now dead?
"
Well if the UK Government never allows another referendum in Scotland again then that's one bit sorted.
Northern Ireland will still be there but may have to give out wetsuits to their customs officers 
The union will be held together within the iron grip of Johnson. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"with tories basically winning with english nationalism, the SNP winning big in scotland, and Northern ireland about to be cut off in johnson's brexit deal....
is the union basically now dead?
Well if the UK Government never allows another referendum in Scotland again then that's one bit sorted.
Northern Ireland will still be there but may have to give out wetsuits to their customs officers
The union will be held together within the iron grip of Johnson. "
That approach has only one outcome - to drive more reluctant SNP supporters into the Yes camp.
In the last Parliament, the Lords debated a number of times the question of a new Act of Union.
Basically, a recalibration of the UK constitution to address all the anomaly caused by a patchwork of devolution.
The Tory manifesto was vague enough, and Johnson unprincipled enough, to give him plenty room to get on the front foot, rather than just stick fingers in his ears.
Personally, a federal state offers the only realistic prospect of holding these countries together.
But I suspect Brexit will be all-consuming for the next Government, as it was for the last one.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The United Kingdom of England and Wales is now in effect - the Tories have got Brexit that’s all they wanted and fuck the consequences
Scotland and Northern Ireland will be consigned to the rubbish heap
The Little Englanders have won - |
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"The United Kingdom of England and Wales is now in effect - the Tories have got Brexit that’s all they wanted and fuck the consequences
Scotland and Northern Ireland will be consigned to the rubbish heap
The Little Englanders have won - "
Scotland and Northern Ireland seem to get the better of that deal.
Room for a couple more? |
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"I suspect the rubicon will be crossed on January 31.
After that, the union will be pulled in 3 different directions.
Is there anyone in Johnson's circle wise enough to spot the risks, to understand the choices and put the UK Government on the front foot instead of the back foot?
She was never in his circle, but Ruth Davidson was one of those wise enough.
Ruth Davidson was a one trick pony who got out because she could see which way the wind was blowing. She had no policies except no to indy ref 2 car crash carlaw tried to emulate her and it blew up in his face
"
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"with tories basically winning with english nationalism, the SNP winning big in scotland, and Northern ireland about to be cut off in johnson's brexit deal....
is the union basically now dead?
"
yup its now a matter of time and sooner rather than later |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The United Kingdom of England and Wales is now in effect - the Tories have got Brexit that’s all they wanted and fuck the consequences
Scotland and Northern Ireland will be consigned to the rubbish heap
The Little Englanders have won - "
Erm... People in Northern Ireland and Scotland voted leave too so don't forget them |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The United Kingdom of England and Wales is now in effect - the Tories have got Brexit that’s all they wanted and fuck the consequences
Scotland and Northern Ireland will be consigned to the rubbish heap
The Little Englanders have won -
Erm... People in Northern Ireland and Scotland voted leave too so don't forget them "
Think youll find that people in Scotland & the 6 counties voted to remain.
Boris & His Brexit deal isn't done yet. |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
"with tories basically winning with english nationalism, the SNP winning big in scotland, and Northern ireland about to be cut off in johnson's brexit deal....
is the union basically now dead?
"
The union is a strong as the people within it. People voted - they can accept the result, understand they have devolved administrations to run and move on or try and a dissolve it.
The ECJ will no way get involved in UK law on this one. |
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DUP fucked northern Ireland.
They were offered deals scotland would have snapped up, offered billions, told the tories they had their back, then turned on them.
Well look now. they are not needed, and not just are they not needed the way they played hardball with the tories means they are fucked.
But i dont think that automatically translates to NI leaving the Union, they can trigger a vote if they want, but they have been waiting as they cant gurantee a leave result. they will be able to guranteee a leave uk result later, in about 10-20 years, so even among nationalist there is a "wait and see" mentality. They basically don't trust middle ground unionists, or the children of unionists to vote to leave. They know unionists are a declining population, that nationalist is a growing population and the numbers will eventually be in their favour and then it wont matter about middle ground people. So why risk going for the vote now. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"with tories basically winning with english nationalism, the SNP winning big in scotland, and Northern ireland about to be cut off in johnson's brexit deal....
is the union basically now dead?
"
.
It's been dead for decades, it was only ever held together in the beginning by an iron fist and then by elitism.
But the times they are a changin  |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Nationalised industry used to hold British identity together - the car worker in Bathgate wore the same jacket as the car worker in Birmingham, the miners, the shipbuilders - all working for a common cause and the same British brand, all united.
All gone.
Now, when you ask people about the British "brands" that are common all over, I struggle.
The NHS, yes. Royal Family probably. British Army, yes. A team at the Olympic Games, probably.
Beyond that, what?
There is little left to identify with. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Nationalised industry used to hold British identity together - the car worker in Bathgate wore the same jacket as the car worker in Birmingham, the miners, the shipbuilders - all working for a common cause and the same British brand, all united.
All gone.
Now, when you ask people about the British "brands" that are common all over, I struggle.
The NHS, yes. Royal Family probably. British Army, yes. A team at the Olympic Games, probably.
Beyond that, what?
There is little left to identify with."
.
Ein volk ein pound ein Fuhrer |
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"Beyond that, what?
There is little left to identify with."
I was watching "who do you think you are", and Paul Merton was on it. It turns out he has some Irish in him, English dad, Irish mum, and he went to visit the place in Ireland, he walked around it, a small fishing village went into the pubs talked to people etc.
Then he got a bit melancholy and said "There is an enormous feeling of belonging here that I have never experienced before in England".
I think what you said is the reason why he felt it in the small Irish village and not in England. That he never lived in a place in England with an "english cultural idenity".
You're born in London, You're English, You see yourself as Engish, but in reality you feel like London is just a place you live. That your English identity is expressed instead in going to a rugby match.
I think this feeling has happened more in English cities than Irish/Scottish ones. When you go to Glasgow there is a sense of scottishness, which gets amplified by the falling in "britishness". |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Nationalised industry used to hold British identity together - the car worker in Bathgate wore the same jacket as the car worker in Birmingham, the miners, the shipbuilders - all working for a common cause and the same British brand, all united.
All gone.
Now, when you ask people about the British "brands" that are common all over, I struggle.
The NHS, yes. Royal Family probably. British Army, yes. A team at the Olympic Games, probably.
Beyond that, what?
There is little left to identify with."
Welcome to the one party state  No more wasting time debating about what's right and what's wrong. Just rubber stamp everything. Don't you love democracy.
They are keeping the get Brexit done posters so they can reuse them 2024.... (environmental policy) |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
I think this feeling has happened more in English cities than Irish/Scottish ones. When you go to Glasgow there is a sense of scottishness, which gets amplified by the falling in "britishness"."
I cannot recall a time I ever identified as "British".
Scottish, yes
UK citizen, yes.
British? What's that?
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"Beyond that, what?
There is little left to identify with.
I was watching "who do you think you are", and Paul Merton was on it. It turns out he has some Irish in him, English dad, Irish mum, and he went to visit the place in Ireland, he walked around it, a small fishing village went into the pubs talked to people etc.
Then he got a bit melancholy and said "There is an enormous feeling of belonging here that I have never experienced before in England".
I think what you said is the reason why he felt it in the small Irish village and not in England. That he never lived in a place in England with an "english cultural idenity".
You're born in London, You're English, You see yourself as Engish, but in reality you feel like London is just a place you live. That your English identity is expressed instead in going to a rugby match.
I think this feeling has happened more in English cities than Irish/Scottish ones. When you go to Glasgow there is a sense of scottishness, which gets amplified by the falling in "britishness"."
I dont need a natural identity to be given me I like to chose who I am and what makes me sentimental
I'm a human absolutely not British in any form of stereotyping meh
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don't identify as especially British, English yes but it does not really matter how I identify myself, I am what I am and if I'm born in Britain then I'm British, kind of end of really |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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One thing. Ms. Sturgeon speaks with great duplicity, especially on the definition of democracy, referenda and honouring them.
Personally I was gobsmacked when the first Scottish indyref didn't go through. Dumbfounded even. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"with tories basically winning with english nationalism, the SNP winning big in scotland, and Northern ireland about to be cut off in johnson's brexit deal....
is the union basically now dead?
Well if the UK Government never allows another referendum in Scotland again then that's one bit sorted.
Northern Ireland will still be there but may have to give out wetsuits to their customs officers
The union will be held together within the iron grip of Johnson. "
My BIG worry is a possibility the "troubles" may return  |
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