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the NHS

By *abio OP Man over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

oh well... looks like labour have blown a huge hole in tory claims with regards to NHS not being part of the fabled uk-us post brexit trade deal...

1) do you mind?

2) do you actually care?

just interested... which party are you more likely to believe when it comes to NHS claims with what they will do to invest

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

To my mind, the NHS is too big for the tories to exert any control over so they are doing their best to divvy it up and sell it off just like all the other assets we once owned!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It was never in doubt that the NHS was up for sale..

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By *ethnmelvCouple over a year ago

Cardiff

They are clearly the party of liars

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What is disappointing to say the least is that fucking stupid journalist question about fucking antisemitism at a press conference about Boris's handling of the NHS documents.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"What is disappointing to say the least is that fucking stupid journalist question about fucking antisemitism at a press conference about Boris's handling of the NHS documents. "

If all else fails pull out your anti Semitic card.

The more they scream and foam at the mouth that Corbyn is an anti Semite the less credibility it has...

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By *oxychick35Couple over a year ago

thornaby

"What is disappointing to say the least is that fucking stupid journalist question about fucking antisemitism at a press conference about Boris's handling of the NHS documents.

If all else fails pull out your anti Semitic card.

The more they scream and foam at the mouth that Corbyn is an anti Semite the less credibility it has...

"
wasnt just the rabi didn’t all the faith leaders come out against him bob ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As long as it's well run and free at point of service I'm not really arsed who owns it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"What is disappointing to say the least is that fucking stupid journalist question about fucking antisemitism at a press conference about Boris's handling of the NHS documents.

If all else fails pull out your anti Semitic card.

The more they scream and foam at the mouth that Corbyn is an anti Semite the less credibility it has...

wasnt just the rabi didn’t all the faith leaders come out against him bob ?"

As an atheist the Flying Spaghetti Monster could accuse him of being anti pastafarian it’s all just guff and people would still vote Corbyn..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"What is disappointing to say the least is that fucking stupid journalist question about fucking antisemitism at a press conference about Boris's handling of the NHS documents.

If all else fails pull out your anti Semitic card.

The more they scream and foam at the mouth that Corbyn is an anti Semite the less credibility it has...

"
.

Will you let me finish, I've been against racism for 30 years, will you let me finish.

Will you let me finish, I hate racism, let me finish.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"oh well... looks like labour have blown a huge hole in tory claims with regards to NHS not being part of the fabled uk-us post brexit trade deal...

1) do you mind?

2) do you actually care?

just interested... which party are you more likely to believe when it comes to NHS claims with what they will do to invest"

Looks like you are not quite reporting the facts but your opinions are fine but it makes your questions a tad subjective.

No Labour have not done any such thing and yes I mind and care greatly because they are peddling a straw man argument and have no answers other than throwing even more £ Bns at the NHS.

They are doing all they can to divert attention from the Corbyn Car Crash yesterday and the only card they have left is the NHS. So they fabricate this so called 'proof'. And what this 'proof' shows is the previous Government opened up 'talks about talks' where both sides expressed what they wished to 'talk' about. the EU of course forbids us doing anything more. So Corbyn is on a loser right there. Most happened in 2017 and 2018 long before BoJo was PM by the way.

The Tories have repeatedly declared that the NHS itself is 'not up for sale' and it isn't and could not be. Its too big. However I am all for more competition in Pharma as we currently buy 90% from UK / EU Pharma companies. Yes those private companies.

And lets not forget who privatised hospital services, car parks, cleaning, catering and so many other internal services: One Tony B Liar.

GPs are of course all private businesses as are Opticians, Dentists, elderly care homes and other specialist services. Like funeral directors! Again who created that? Labour in '48 for GPs and Blair post '98.

if the Tories were up for 'selling the NHS' why did they announce a huge increase in NHS investment last year the first stage when TM was PM and a bigger one when BoJo became PM? To quote that Red Bus its not £350 Mn a week its actually £390 Mn a week. So to answer your last point I KNOW the Tories are investing in the NHS.

So I will take no lectures from Corbyn on NHS privatisation and until trade talks start and we know the outcomes this is all just fantasy accusations and rhetoric skewed for the Labour voters deserting Corbyn in droves. He is an absolute liar on this and incompetent on everything else.

Personally I don't believe he is antisemitic or racist but his inept leadership has allowed those who are to gain ground in his party.

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By *iltsguy200Man over a year ago

Warminster

"oh well... looks like labour have blown a huge hole in tory claims with regards to NHS not being part of the fabled uk-us post brexit trade deal...

1) do you mind?

2) do you actually care?

just interested... which party are you more likely to believe when it comes to NHS claims with what they will do to invest"

There are a total of 5 documents Mr Can I Finish has produced,

They are dated as follows,

24 - 25 July 2017

13 -14 November 2017

21 -22 March 2018

10 - 11 July 2018

2 - 7 November 2018

Could someone remind me who was PM then ?

In addition the documents were not from trade discussions where things were agreed, they were in fact from the working groups in which both the UK and US set out their starting positions for any future trade talks.

For working groups discussing trade, the NHS is barely mentioned in these documents.

Including all 451 pages, the NHS is mentioned 4 times, once regarding defending the NHS’s access to cheaper drugs for patients (which is a good thing). One sentence even spells out the US were “Sensitive to the particular sensitivities with the health sector in the UK”.

This was in regard to nursing qualifications and how closely the US has co-ordinated with Canada and Ireland. Canada having adopted the US exam and there being a compact between 25 - 30 states which allows nurses to move between those states.

The Americans were interested to know how problematic this could be for the UK to act in this area.

So basically it’s a whole lot of nothing and it’s Mr Can I Finish clutching at straws.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"oh well... looks like labour have blown a huge hole in tory claims with regards to NHS not being part of the fabled uk-us post brexit trade deal...

1) do you mind?

2) do you actually care?

just interested... which party are you more likely to believe when it comes to NHS claims with what they will do to invest

There are a total of 5 documents Mr Can I Finish has produced,

They are dated as follows,

24 - 25 July 2017

13 -14 November 2017

21 -22 March 2018

10 - 11 July 2018

2 - 7 November 2018

Could someone remind me who was PM then ?

For working groups discussing trade, the NHS is barely mentioned in these documents.

The Americans were interested to know how problematic this could be for the UK to act in this area.

So basically it’s a whole lot of nothing and it’s Mr Can I Finish clutching at straws.

Back of the net Sir!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think the good and decent citizens of Britain would like to keep the NHS out of America’s hands..

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

You'd need a particular blind spot in your political antennae not to have joined the dots on this one already.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think the good and decent citizens of Britain would like to keep the NHS out of America’s hands.."

Are you sure about that, already seen old types on social media heel turning and saying NHS is a mess so maybe we should sell it and let it be ran "better and fairer"

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By *ethnmelvCouple over a year ago

Cardiff

"I think the good and decent citizens of Britain would like to keep the NHS out of America’s hands..

Are you sure about that, already seen old types on social media heel turning and saying NHS is a mess so maybe we should sell it and let it be ran "better and fairer"

...any examples of where that has turned out well?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think the good and decent citizens of Britain would like to keep the NHS out of America’s hands..

Are you sure about that, already seen old types on social media heel turning and saying NHS is a mess so maybe we should sell it and let it be ran "better and fairer"

...any examples of where that has turned out well?

Canada? Single payer system like her. Free at the point of need like here. No compulsory health insurance like here. All services, ambulances and doctors run by the private sector who invest and build all the hospitals.

germany does OK with a multiple payer system and privately sourced hospitals.

The NHS itself is not a holy grail of medical care but the key principles of 'Single payer' (ie taxpayer) funding and 'free at point of need' are. Its how we deliver between those two fixed points needs discussion.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think the good and decent citizens of Britain would like to keep the NHS out of America’s hands..

Are you sure about that, already seen old types on social media heel turning and saying NHS is a mess so maybe we should sell it and let it be ran "better and fairer"

Please define 'old types' for me?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think the good and decent citizens of Britain would like to keep the NHS out of America’s hands..

Are you sure about that, already seen old types on social media heel turning and saying NHS is a mess so maybe we should sell it and let it be ran "better and fairer"

...any examples of where that has turned out well?

germany does OK with a multiple payer system and privately sourced hospitals.

Don't go breaking the myth for them, it's all they've got to hold on to

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By *oodmessMan over a year ago

yumsville

"oh well... looks like labour have blown a huge hole in tory claims with regards to NHS not being part of the fabled uk-us post brexit trade deal...

1) do you mind?

2) do you actually care?

just interested... which party are you more likely to believe when it comes to NHS claims with what they will do to invest"

For 'Corbynistas', this will be golden. From what I saw in the news it was a Working Group document from 2017.

Corbyn himself said it was 450 pages long - that's near as long as the WAB, but it's not a WAB, it's a Working Group Document.. you know, like when you have a work meeting and minutes are taken, good ideas are pondered, bad ones are laughed at - they don't mean shit overall.

The UK could have said "what about US missile defence systems access" does this then imply the US will give up is defence systems? Realistically, things get discussed, ideas get thrown out, it is not an agreement.

Even if medicines were discussed - US medicines are an important part of the NHS, because we either cannot or do not research certain types of illnesses. I think one has just been negotiated for cystic-fibrosis? That doesn't mean mass US encroachment on the NHS. And again... it's from 2017. 2017 when Bozo and his cabinet wasn't in government.

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

The US has made clear on several occasions it wants the NHS in the scope of a trade agreement:

* The President said so on several occasions

* The US Ambassador to the UK said so on several occasions

* The published negotiating strategy of the US identifies "complete market access" to the NHS as a priority.

The US knows the UK negotiating position is weak - and sees a state-run monopoly as rich pickings.

The UK has a prime minister who lies repeatedly on every other issue. It just amazes me that on the one issue that most voters say they trust the Tories least, the NHS, some people think Johnson has suddenly swallowed a truth pill.

That guy would sell his granny for self-aggrandisement.

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By *ostafunMan over a year ago

near ipswich

"The US has made clear on several occasions it wants the NHS in the scope of a trade agreement:

* The President said so on several occasions

* The US Ambassador to the UK said so on several occasions

* The published negotiating strategy of the US identifies "complete market access" to the NHS as a priority.

The US knows the UK negotiating position is weak - and sees a state-run monopoly as rich pickings.

That guy would sell his granny for self-aggrandisement. "
If there was any proof that the uk had agreed to any of these things rather than a wish list from the usa dont you think labour would produce it? just another diversion tactic to detract from corbyns disaster last night.

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By *oxychick35Couple over a year ago

thornaby

"The US has made clear on several occasions it wants the NHS in the scope of a trade agreement:

* The President said so on several occasions

* The US Ambassador to the UK said so on several occasions

* The published negotiating strategy of the US identifies "complete market access" to the NHS as a priority.

The US knows the UK negotiating position is weak - and sees a state-run monopoly as rich pickings.

That guy would sell his granny for self-aggrandisement. "
why wouldn’t the USA want access to the nhs I want to win the euro doesn’t mean I’ll get it lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think the good and decent citizens of Britain would like to keep the NHS out of America’s hands.."

I like you.

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By *oodmessMan over a year ago

yumsville

"oh well... looks like labour have blown a huge hole in tory claims with regards to NHS not being part of the fabled uk-us post brexit trade deal...

1) do you mind?

2) do you actually care?

just interested... which party are you more likely to believe when it comes to NHS claims with what they will do to invest

For 'Corbynistas', this will be golden. From what I saw in the news it was a Working Group document from 2017.

Just to big up myself. Kuenssberg has just said the same thing on the 6 o'clock. I on the other hand caught a 30sec Channel 4 and Labour (subtitled) soundbite

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The US has made clear on several occasions it wants the NHS in the scope of a trade agreement:

* The President said so on several occasions

* The US Ambassador to the UK said so on several occasions

* The published negotiating strategy of the US identifies "complete market access" to the NHS as a priority.

The US knows the UK negotiating position is weak - and sees a state-run monopoly as rich pickings.

That guy would sell his granny for self-aggrandisement. "

OK lets remind ourselves all Corbyn has produced is a summary of 'talks about 'scope' for 'talks' that took place in 2017 and 2018 by the previous Government. Nothing can be agreed because the EU will not allow it.

1. Sorry no it has not said any such thing. It wants access to the NHS as it has now...

2. the President has said no such thing. Indeed on an LBC interview with farage Trump said the NHS was not up for discussions and couldn't be.

3. The US Ambassador has said he wants US Pharma and service companies to have access to work FOR the NHS not take it over.

4. The US wants access to the market within the NHS like UK and EU firms currently have that does not mean anything is agreed. And has not been.

Some people seem unable to differentiate between a discussion document which is nothing more than 'Minutes' of meetings and a final agreement. And some even fabricate total crap to make it look more than it is

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By *ilkysmooth123Man over a year ago

nr sedbergh

[Removed by poster at 27/11/19 18:43:31]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As long as it's well run and free at point of service I'm not really arsed who owns it."

So it doesn't bother you that someone who is supposed to be looking after his people has been running the NHS into the ground so that people will be more accepting of it being sold? Obviously worked on you.

Is there ANYTHING that Boris Johnson could do to stop you being infatuated with him?

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By *osexyCouple over a year ago

ST AUSTELL

Spot on

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The US has made clear on several occasions it wants the NHS in the scope of a trade agreement:

* The President said so on several occasions

* The US Ambassador to the UK said so on several occasions

* The published negotiating strategy of the US identifies "complete market access" to the NHS as a priority.

The US knows the UK negotiating position is weak - and sees a state-run monopoly as rich pickings.

That guy would sell his granny for self-aggrandisement. "

Now you know why NHS is being run into the ground. So when collapses completely America can rush in and 'save the day'. So obvious except yo those so blind they will never see.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" Now you know why NHS is being run into the ground. So when collapses completely America can rush in and 'save the day'. So obvious except yo those so blind they will never see. "

yeah they are SO 'running it into the ground' by banging £390 Mn a week into the NHS ...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 27/11/19 19:28:50]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As long as it's well run and free at point of service I'm not really arsed who owns it.

Is there ANYTHING that Boris Johnson could do to stop you being infatuated with him? "

And is there ANYTHING that you won't fabricate to appease your confirmation bias against the Tories? And where is it being 'run into the ground'?

And you really think Corbyn will 'save the NHS'?

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

Yes, the US president did a U-turn.

It does not erase the fact he said on several occasions the US has its eyes on the NHS.

And if, as you insist, the US has no such interest any longer, why has its negotiating priorities paper not been amended to reflect this?

Because Trump will say anything to anyone at any time - just like his chum Johnson - and expect people to take every contradictory statement as truth that cannot be disputed.

The NHS is on the table, according to the US. Look on the White House website if you do not believe me.

The US has started discussing the NHS with UK officials.

Both parties have agreed that everything is included, unless specifically excluded.

The NHS is in there.

Politicians lie. None so more than Trump and Johnson.

The evidence is in front of your eyes, on both sides of the Atlantic.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" Now you know why NHS is being run into the ground. So when collapses completely America can rush in and 'save the day'. So obvious except yo those so blind they will never see.

yeah they are SO 'running it into the ground' by banging £390 Mn a week into the NHS ...

Perhaps we are talking about a different NHS.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As long as it's well run and free at point of service I'm not really arsed who owns it.

Is there ANYTHING that Boris Johnson could do to stop you being infatuated with him? "
.

I don't vote Tory!.

And secondly he's only been in charge for like two months, the NHS has been in my opinion run badly for years under every government, so no I'm not bothered who owns it, I'm bothered about it being well run and free at point of service.

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By *ethnmelvCouple over a year ago

Cardiff

"I think the good and decent citizens of Britain would like to keep the NHS out of America’s hands..

Are you sure about that, already seen old types on social media heel turning and saying NHS is a mess so maybe we should sell it and let it be ran "better and fairer"

...any examples of where that has turned out well?

germany does OK with a multiple payer system and privately sourced hospitals.

Ok, looked into Canada’s Medicare. It is very similar to the NHS and has been in existence since 1946/7. It is not a private system, nor has it been privatised, so my question still stands - where has a very, very large public institution been privatised and this went well for anyone other than the shareholders?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As long as it's well run and free at point of service I'm not really arsed who owns it.

Is there ANYTHING that Boris Johnson could do to stop you being infatuated with him?

And is there ANYTHING that you won't fabricate to appease your confirmation bias against the Tories? And where is it being 'run into the ground'?

And you really think Corbyn will 'save the NHS'?"

I have a problem with state capture. The fact that Boris Johnson acts in the best interest of his wealthy backers is a problem for me as it should be for every patriotic Briton.

No there is nothing Boris could do to change my opion of him. He's shown his spots and quite frankly find him to be a detestable piece of work. There was a time when people were executed for high treason for lying to their queen.

How can you say the NHS isn't in a state of collapse? Google 'NHS' and 'collapse' and see what comes back.

What did I fabricate?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We all should be worried, we will all be paying more, not to make people better , but to pay big American pharma .

That money leaves the U.K. .

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As long as it's well run and free at point of service I'm not really arsed who owns it.

Is there ANYTHING that Boris Johnson could do to stop you being infatuated with him? .

I don't vote Tory!.

Do you really think that politicians are anything more than puppets that people will vote for? Do you think they have autonomy?

Probably the last statesmen worldwide who went against their backers were JFK and Bobby.

Try watching 'Saving Capitalism' and decide for yourself whether politicians really run the show or whether they are singing, dancing puppets.

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By *oodmessMan over a year ago

yumsville

"We all should be worried, we will all be paying more, not to make people better , but to pay big American pharma .

That money leaves the U.K. . "

I suspect it will with Bozo.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The NHS is not for sale, try looking at the real factcheck. Corbyn is, quite simply, lying.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We all should be worried, we will all be paying more, not to make people better , but to pay big American pharma .

That money leaves the U.K. . "

What you need to worry about is monopolies. When every form of service is owned by the same entity then they can choose the price. Supply and demand goes out the window.

This is already happening with insulin. It is only manufactured by three major companies. It only costs about $100 to manufacture a years supply but in the UK it cost over $500. In the states it costs over $1200.

Imagine applying that to every aspect of commerce.

South Africa was sold by Jacob Zuma to the Gupta family. When South Africa no longer owned it's own coal mines electricity went from the cheapest in the world to some of the most expensive. The cost of lost investment and rolling power cuts is estimated to have cost SA between 500 billion and a trillion Rand. That's about R100 000 for every South African millions of whom live in tin shacks.

Jacob Zuma is now on trial for his criminal actions but this does not help the country whose credit worthiness is at junk status and still falling.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We all should be worried, we will all be paying more, not to make people better , but to pay big American pharma .

That money leaves the U.K. . "

What like the new cystic fibrosis costs go to the USA? Well we better not treat those patients then. Can't have people getting the best drugs can we ...?

#FacePalm

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The NHS is not for sale, try looking at the real factcheck. Corbyn is, quite simply, lying."

Its a waste of time mate. the lefties are fixated on it as their saving event ....

Joke is half the Labour Party don't want Jezzah as PM ...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The NHS is not for sale, try looking at the real factcheck. Corbyn is, quite simply, lying.

Its a waste of time mate. the lefties are fixated on it as their saving event ....

Joke is half the Labour Party don't want Jezzah as PM ..."

I know, just book marking so I can pop back and laugh at the bitterness

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan over a year ago

salisbury

Do you think it'll be a better service once the Americans are running it?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" I have a problem with state capture. The fact that Boris Johnson acts in the best interest of his wealthy backers is a problem for me as it should be for every patriotic Briton.

How can you say the NHS isn't in a state of collapse? Google 'NHS' and 'collapse' and see what comes back.

What did I fabricate? "

You get worse mate ... Have a quiet word with yourself.

* You fabricate BoJo is acting for unknown and unnamed 'wealthy backers' and yet you are happy to know the wealthy Union Barons Corbyn will act for.

* I am as patriotic as anyone else, have served my country and been to war so I will take NO lectures from a Leftie (especially a supporter of that treacherous moron Corbyn) about 'patriotism'. It has no political colour my friend.

* BoJo may be 'detestable' but you have given no facts to support your fixation ...

* Sorry The Queen was not 'lied to'. No court found him guilty of lying to or misleading anyone. Indeed BoJo was NOT charged with anything. The Court created a new law, backdated it to cover when the House was prorogued and then said his action was 'unlawful'. That is all. And mark the words- this will apply to every PM advising the Queen from now on.

* I'll pass on the Googling thanks because I can read other more reliable sources. But the NHS is no more badly funded than it has ever been. It is under huge pressure because more people are using it. And a factor in that demand is that GPs are seeing fewer people thanks to Labour's change of contracts. And other factors I won't go into here...

You lefties screech 'Save Our NHS' like its a bloody religion when its a public service. And a very expensive one at that.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Do you think it'll be a better service once the Americans are running it?"

Well done for fabricating a loaded and pointless question.

The Yanks will NOT be running the NHS.

Therefore your question is redundant

But you knew that of course ...

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By *risky_MareWoman over a year ago

...Up on the Downs

"oh well... looks like labour have blown a huge hole in tory claims with regards to NHS not being part of the fabled uk-us post brexit trade deal...

No they haven't - they're just scaremongering and lying about what's in the documents as Andrew Neil pointed out.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"oh well... looks like labour have blown a huge hole in tory claims with regards to NHS not being part of the fabled uk-us post brexit trade deal...

No they haven't - they're just scaremongering and lying about what's in the documents as Andrew Neil pointed out."

Then what was the point of Brexit from the point of view of the US funders of Farage and his leave campaign?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" I have a problem with state capture. The fact that Boris Johnson acts in the best interest of his wealthy backers is a problem for me as it should be for every patriotic Briton.

How can you say the NHS isn't in a state of collapse? Google 'NHS' and 'collapse' and see what comes back.

What did I fabricate?

You get worse mate ... Have a quiet word with yourself.

* You fabricate BoJo is acting for unknown and unnamed 'wealthy backers' and yet you are happy to know the wealthy Union Barons Corbyn will act for.

* BoJo may be 'detestable' but you have given no facts to support your fixation ...

You lefties screech 'Save Our NHS' like its a bloody religion when its a public service. And a very expensive one at that."

Are you ordering me around now. You know what you can do?

Those mysterious backers who are 'fabricated'...

"The Cabinet Office has been asked to investigate whether Boris Johnson could be in breach of the ministerial code by not declaring any financial connection to hedge fund donors who contributed substantially to his leadership election campaign"

It's actually a matter of public record.

I'm not a leftie. I just haven't been brainwashed. I happen to be a businessman who stands to make good money if the Tories win and will be totally screwed if labour get in.

I also fought for my country. But keeping the enemy away from your borders doesn't help when your own leaders are up for sale to yhe highest bidder.

Do you honestly believe that Boris Johnson was telling the truth? Yes we've had to create new laws to handle new depths that no one has ever sunk to before.

Why would you Google anything when the Daily Mail tells you everything you need to know? Well everything they need you to know.

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By *rufinWoman over a year ago

notts

The USA has always been very clear that it aims to make other countries pay more for pharmaceutical drugs. Prices in the USA are far higher than those paid by us. This will very obviously be a point of negotiation. I can't see us coming out of it better off. Like all things Brexit.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In 2016, the UK exported £24.9 billion of pharmaceutical products, of which £11.9 billion (48 per cent) went to the EU,22 a market of more than 446 million potential patients and consumers.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The USA has always been very clear that it aims to make other countries pay more for pharmaceutical drugs. Prices in the USA are far higher than those paid by us. This will very obviously be a point of negotiation. I can't see us coming out of it better off. Like all things Brexit."
it will be like everything else that was sold off, share holders need returns so it's going to be us the public who foots the bill one way or another. It should be not for profit.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan over a year ago

salisbury

Im kinda looking forward to a slick American style service. Maybe they could keep a "free" service, then a better service for those who can afford it.

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By *hybloke67Man over a year ago

ROMFORD

'And lets not forget who privatised hospital services, car parks, cleaning, catering and so many other internal services: One Tony B Liar.

So basically Labour are accusing the Conservative party of going to sell off the bits of the NHS that they didn't sell off themselves?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Do you want the NHS to be sold off?

"'And lets not forget who privatised hospital services, car parks, cleaning, catering and so many other internal services: One Tony B Liar.

So basically Labour are accusing the Conservative party of going to sell off the bits of the NHS that they didn't sell off themselves?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Im kinda looking forward to a slick American style service. Maybe they could keep a "free" service, then a better service for those who can afford it.

Actually what you end up with is an expensive medical facility that is no better than free facilities in most first world countries and then an atrocious alternative which is what the majority will need to cope with.

Here's how it works. To get that cover you require medical insurance. Once you have medical insurance the hospitals etc charge redicilous prices for everything including cotton wool swabs. The insurance companies happily pay because they pass these costs onto the consumer who doesn't have a choice but to pay more. Everyone wins except the man on the street.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Im kinda looking forward to a slick American style service. Maybe they could keep a "free" service, then a better service for those who can afford it.

Private health care is currently available. You don't need to wait for Brexit for it.

However I know you're just saying the most rediculous thing you can think of to get a rise out of people.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan over a year ago

salisbury

"Im kinda looking forward to a slick American style service. Maybe they could keep a "free" service, then a better service for those who can afford it.

So worse than bupa?

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By *hybloke67Man over a year ago

ROMFORD

"Do you want the NHS to be sold off?

'And lets not forget who privatised hospital services, car parks, cleaning, catering and so many other internal services: One Tony B Liar.

So basically Labour are accusing the Conservative party of going to sell off the bits of the NHS that they didn't sell off themselves?

I'd actually like NI number checks before any treatment is given.

It's a National Health Service not a World Health Service.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan over a year ago

salisbury

"Do you want the NHS to be sold off?

'And lets not forget who privatised hospital services, car parks, cleaning, catering and so many other internal services: One Tony B Liar.

So basically Labour are accusing the Conservative party of going to sell off the bits of the NHS that they didn't sell off themselves?

I'd actually like NI number checks before any treatment is given.

It's a National Health Service not a World Health Service."

That makes sense. And no real hassle. Might have to produce it after the event for A&E though lol

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By *hybloke67Man over a year ago

ROMFORD

"Do you want the NHS to be sold off?

'And lets not forget who privatised hospital services, car parks, cleaning, catering and so many other internal services: One Tony B Liar.

So basically Labour are accusing the Conservative party of going to sell off the bits of the NHS that they didn't sell off themselves?

I'd actually like NI number checks before any treatment is given.

It's a National Health Service not a World Health Service.

That makes sense. And no real hassle. Might have to produce it after the event for A&E though lol

No different from being in Europe when they ask for your insurance.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan over a year ago

salisbury

Could save money by having some elective procedures pay/private only.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Slick American health care system . Now I know someone is talking out their back side

Hilarious

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan over a year ago

salisbury

"Do you want the NHS to be sold off?

'And lets not forget who privatised hospital services, car parks, cleaning, catering and so many other internal services: One Tony B Liar.

So basically Labour are accusing the Conservative party of going to sell off the bits of the NHS that they didn't sell off themselves?

I'd actually like NI number checks before any treatment is given.

It's a National Health Service not a World Health Service.

That makes sense. And no real hassle. Might have to produce it after the event for A&E though lol

No different from being in Europe when they ask for your insurance. "

Hmm guess not.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan over a year ago

salisbury

"Slick American health care system . Now I know someone is talking out their back side

Hilarious "

Oh fuck really? I was thinking it couldn't get any worse.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Virgin Healthcare and CareUK. Both private companies who run many multi-treatment centres for the NHS. All NHS catering contracts are with private companies, as are many portering and auxiliary services. I think your NHS is more privately run than most of you realise. CareUK, interestingly, is part-owned by a South African company, Afrox Healthcare. CareUK were granted contracts in 2003, Virgin in 2007 - both under Labour governments. Food for thought.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan over a year ago

salisbury

"Virgin Healthcare and CareUK. Both private companies who run many multi-treatment centres for the NHS. All NHS catering contracts are with private companies, as are many portering and auxiliary services. I think your NHS is more privately run than most of you realise. CareUK, interestingly, is part-owned by a South African company, Afrox Healthcare. CareUK were granted contracts in 2003, Virgin in 2007 - both under Labour governments. Food for thought."

Forward thinking labour policies

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

all very well stating policies of past governments.how does that have any bearing to what is best for the U.K. today and the next 5 years .

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By *hybloke67Man over a year ago

ROMFORD

I haven't heard Mr Corbyn announce that Labour with re nationalise the parts of the NHS that Labour sold off.!

Do you think he will say this at his next press conference?

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan over a year ago

salisbury

"all very well stating policies of past governments.how does that have any bearing to what is best for the U.K. today and the next 5 years ."

End the decline. The nhs needs help.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The reason why South African companies are geared up for this is that have had private healthcare running alongside government facilities for a long time now. When I lived in SA my "medical aid" costs were more than my mortgage and food bill combined. On top of this the government had a special tax for medical aid conributions.

So you ended up paying 3 times. Once on your normal taxes, once through med aid contributions and again on tax on those contributions.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Forward thinking labour policies

Unfortunately, pay scales were set and agreed by the then-government. Both companies pay less than NHS banding rates, and both companies are missing their treatment targets by a long way but their contracts allow them too much leeway.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan over a year ago

salisbury

Forward thinking labour policies

Who'd have thought it!?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" I have a problem with state capture. The fact that Boris Johnson acts in the best interest of his wealthy backers is a problem for me as it should be for every patriotic Briton.

How can you say the NHS isn't in a state of collapse? Google 'NHS' and 'collapse' and see what comes back.

What did I fabricate?

You get worse mate ... Have a quiet word with yourself.

* You fabricate BoJo is acting for unknown and unnamed 'wealthy backers' and yet you are happy to know the wealthy Union Barons Corbyn will act for.

* BoJo may be 'detestable' but you have given no facts to support your fixation ...

You lefties screech 'Save Our NHS' like its a bloody religion when its a public service. And a very expensive one at that."
An excellent post that clearly illustrates a number of very important points. I always found it bizarre that Labour party supporters think that they have a monopoly on the health service .

Even more bizarre are claims that the Conservative party want to privatise the service. People seem to think that we should have to accept the privatisation comments without any evidence ever bring produced to support the claims.

We probably need to do a detailed analysis of every single service provided by the NHS , who uses it and why.

Is current funding being used in the most efficient manner possible ..? We need rigorous checks to ensure that only those entitled to use use the service use it. Can some of the work undertaken by Doctors be done by nurses instead?

The health service in France is very good but comes at a cost. Do we consider charging for some of the services in order to have greatèr accounabilty ?

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By *illianbTV/TS over a year ago

Stockton-On-Tees

The nhs is badly run and will swallow however much money is thrown at it , no private company could survive with its level of waste ,

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"I think the good and decent citizens of Britain would like to keep the NHS out of America’s hands..

Are you sure about that, already seen old types on social media heel turning and saying NHS is a mess so maybe we should sell it and let it be ran "better and fairer"

...any examples of where that has turned out well?

germany does OK with a multiple payer system and privately sourced hospitals.

Most German hospitals are state run.

They are paid for by a ring fenced tax based on a percentage of your salary.

The majority of Canadian hospitals are not-for-profit charitable foundations.

Not sure what point your making based on that.

If money is being removed in profit then it is not being paid on medical care. Is that factual?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Im kinda looking forward to a slick American style service. Maybe they could keep a "free" service, then a better service for those who can afford it.

Were currently paying 132 billion pounds a year for health, it isn't free.

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"oh well... looks like labour have blown a huge hole in tory claims with regards to NHS not being part of the fabled uk-us post brexit trade deal...

1) do you mind?

2) do you actually care?

just interested... which party are you more likely to believe when it comes to NHS claims with what they will do to invest"

I don't think that this means that the Conservatives will, in fact, agree to this.

It will be very difficult to do now because it will be under such close scrutiny as will any food standards.

The upshot is we will actually get a pretty crappy trade deal with the US which is one of the big prizes of leaving the EU

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"oh well... looks like labour have blown a huge hole in tory claims with regards to NHS not being part of the fabled uk-us post brexit trade deal...

1) do you mind?

2) do you actually care?

just interested... which party are you more likely to believe when it comes to NHS claims with what they will do to invest

I don't think that this means that the Conservatives will, in fact, agree to this.

It will be very difficult to do now because it will be under such close scrutiny as will any food standards.

The upshot is we will actually get a pretty crappy trade deal with the US which is one of the big prizes of leaving the EU

"
.

We don't need a deal, just walk away, currently we sell them more than they sell us.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The NHS is an amazing thing and envied the world over! We have free, at point of service health care, it would be a crime to let that change.

The only thing that needs to change is staffing levels, there are nowhere near enough nurses, doctors etc and the NHS is on its knees.

Ambulance staff numbers have dropped as well and staff retention is shit across trusts.

All aspects are working ridiculous hours, with little or no breaks because there is a shortfall, plus the money is gash so OT shifts are needed to survive!!

If the Tories do sell to the Yanks then the mortality rate in the UK is going to be shocking as people won't be able to afford the prices that will bring! However, it's the people that this will tend to affect directly that are voting conservative because they are blinded by Brexit, something else that will affect the NHS as a lot of the staff employed now will leave as the will be EU nationals and not UK nationals!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The NHS is an amazing thing and envied the world over! We have free, at point of service health care, it would be a crime to let that change.

The only thing that needs to change is staffing levels, there are nowhere near enough nurses, doctors etc and the NHS is on its knees.

Ambulance staff numbers have dropped as well and staff retention is shit across trusts.

All aspects are working ridiculous hours, with little or no breaks because there is a shortfall, plus the money is gash so OT shifts are needed to survive!!

Free at point of service that costs 132 billion a year.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The NHS is an amazing thing and envied the world over! We have free, at point of service health care, it would be a crime to let that change.

The only thing that needs to change is staffing levels, there are nowhere near enough nurses, doctors etc and the NHS is on its knees.

Ambulance staff numbers have dropped as well and staff retention is shit across trusts.

All aspects are working ridiculous hours, with little or no breaks because there is a shortfall, plus the money is gash so OT shifts are needed to survive!!

Free at point of service that costs 132 billion a year.

Have you ever walked out with a bill for what treatment you have been given?? What is paid in tax is for the buildings, the upkeep, cleaning of all NHS buildings!! You literally have no idea how much it costs for scans, operations, long term bed take up etc etc!!

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By *rufinWoman over a year ago

notts

Take a little look at schools if you want to see what happens when institutions move from public to privately run. (Of course, you could just look at any uk industry that applies to, and compare it to its state owned counterparts across the Channel)

Asset stripping, massive wage rises for the top two or three in the school, corruption, court cases ... Hurrah for the private sector.

I give you last week's news about the asset stripping. That's just last week!

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/nov/18/yorkshire-schools-will-not-get-back-millions-lost-in-trusts-collapse

That's academies - apparently not allowed to make a profit.

My arse.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The NHS is not for sale, try looking at the real factcheck. Corbyn is, quite simply, lying."

He is not!

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By *ethnmelvCouple over a year ago

Cardiff

"The NHS is an amazing thing and envied the world over! We have free, at point of service health care, it would be a crime to let that change.

The only thing that needs to change is staffing levels, there are nowhere near enough nurses, doctors etc and the NHS is on its knees.

Ambulance staff numbers have dropped as well and staff retention is shit across trusts.

All aspects are working ridiculous hours, with little or no breaks because there is a shortfall, plus the money is gash so OT shifts are needed to survive!!

Free at point of service that costs 132 billion a year.

Which is £5.50 per person, per day - pretty reasonable really. Just give up your mochachino and you won’t even notice it!

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By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

"oh well... looks like labour have blown a huge hole in tory claims with regards to NHS not being part of the fabled uk-us post brexit trade deal...

1) do you mind?

2) do you actually care?

just interested... which party are you more likely to believe when it comes to NHS claims with what they will do to invest

I don't think that this means that the Conservatives will, in fact, agree to this.

It will be very difficult to do now because it will be under such close scrutiny as will any food standards.

The upshot is we will actually get a pretty crappy trade deal with the US which is one of the big prizes of leaving the EU

We don't need a deal, just walk away, currently we sell them more than they sell us.

It’s like the last 3 years just never happened to some people. It’s like they have stuck their fingers in the ears and decided to learn absolutely nothing. How can you *still* be so completely and utterly incapable of just simple maths?

You know that our trade with the EU makes up a bigger proportion of our overall trade than our trade is as a proportion of the EU’s total trade. And yet still you fall back to complete and utter claptrap like this.

-Matt

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"oh well... looks like labour have blown a huge hole in tory claims with regards to NHS not being part of the fabled uk-us post brexit trade deal...

1) do you mind?

2) do you actually care?

just interested... which party are you more likely to believe when it comes to NHS claims with what they will do to invest

I don't think that this means that the Conservatives will, in fact, agree to this.

It will be very difficult to do now because it will be under such close scrutiny as will any food standards.

The upshot is we will actually get a pretty crappy trade deal with the US which is one of the big prizes of leaving the EU

We don't need a deal, just walk away, currently we sell them more than they sell us.

-Matt"

Matt, some people are willfully ignorant.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Take a little look at schools if you want to see what happens when institutions move from public to privately run. (Of course, you could just look at any uk industry that applies to, and compare it to its state owned counterparts across the Channel)

Asset stripping, massive wage rises for the top two or three in the school, corruption, court cases ... Hurrah for the private sector.

I give you last week's news about the asset stripping. That's just last week!

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/nov/18/yorkshire-schools-will-not-get-back-millions-lost-in-trusts-collapse

That's academies - apparently not allowed to make a profit.

My arse."

My kids were in a school that became an academy and is now an academy trust running a number of schools and in that time the head and his assistant who were both on five figure salaries are now on six figure salaries - they worked hard to get the trust set up but in the process teachers hours have increased (many of those unpaid) and retention has gone down. The schools results are better but the standard of teaching is now formulaic and whereas my own kids school was once reknowned for its music they now are employing someone who is just inadequate because he is cheaper.and good enough. This is the way of the world now - run schools like a supermarket because if you want extended learning you will only get that in the paid for private world - normal education will become dull and formulaic.

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By *rufinWoman over a year ago

notts

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/27/us-trade-deal-nhs-investigation-brexit-drugs

Today's latest

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By *oxychick35Couple over a year ago

thornaby

Asset stripping, massive wage rises for the top two or three in the school, corruption, court cases ... Hurrah for the private sector.

I give you last week's news about the asset stripping. That's just last week!

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/nov/18/yorkshire-schools-will-not-get-back-millions-lost-in-trusts-collapse

That's academies - apparently not allowed to make a profit.

My arse.

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By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

Asset stripping, massive wage rises for the top two or three in the school, corruption, court cases ... Hurrah for the private sector.

I give you last week's news about the asset stripping. That's just last week!

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/nov/18/yorkshire-schools-will-not-get-back-millions-lost-in-trusts-collapse

That's academies - apparently not allowed to make a profit.

My arse.

What's that got to do with Brexit? Other than Brexit sucking all the political time and energy out of every other area of politics?

-Matt

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Asset stripping, massive wage rises for the top two or three in the school, corruption, court cases ... Hurrah for the private sector.

I give you last week's news about the asset stripping. That's just last week!

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/nov/18/yorkshire-schools-will-not-get-back-millions-lost-in-trusts-collapse

That's academies - apparently not allowed to make a profit.

My arse.

There's a maximum working hrs of 40 a week.

If there doing more than that they can take them to a tribunal, if there making them work without pay, they can take them to a tribunal.

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

What's that got to do with Brexit? Other than Brexit sucking all the political time and energy out of every other area of politics?

-Matt"

The reason why we hear nothing from the Conservative Party about all the great policy achievements of their time in office is precisely this.

Government in the UK since 2016 has been completely swallowed up by Brexit, to the exclusion of just about everything else.

You need to be really gullible to think this election is about getting Brexit done, too. It is only just beginning - a year from now we will be facing the No Deal scenario for the umpteenth time.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Asset stripping, massive wage rises for the top two or three in the school, corruption, court cases ... Hurrah for the private sector.

I give you last week's news about the asset stripping. That's just last week!

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/nov/18/yorkshire-schools-will-not-get-back-millions-lost-in-trusts-collapse

That's academies - apparently not allowed to make a profit.

My arse.

There's a maximum working hrs of 40 a week.

If there doing more than that they can take them to a tribunal, if there making them work without pay, they can take them to a tribunal.

I am sure you know all about workplace bullying and people being sidelined if they dont play the game dont you? Private companies tend to step on whistleblowers quite heavily and if you are known for having stepped out of line and made trouble word gets around quite quickly especially in a small town let alone having to explain to your next employer why you took the last one to a tribunal. Sorry but the real world doesn’t play nice.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Asset stripping, massive wage rises for the top two or three in the school, corruption, court cases ... Hurrah for the private sector.

I give you last week's news about the asset stripping. That's just last week!

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/nov/18/yorkshire-schools-will-not-get-back-millions-lost-in-trusts-collapse

That's academies - apparently not allowed to make a profit.

My arse.

I dont want to get into a dumbass conversation about how up my own arse I am but my point is that privatised business drives down costs at the expense of quality like a supermarket does (think Tesco or Asda or Morrisons) unless you have the advantage of charitable status like most private schools have which is an artificial advantage that lets them pay their staff more and offer a wider choice of curriculum. Take the piss if you like lovely....I’ll just cry myself to sleep ??

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By *oodmessMan over a year ago

yumsville

To get this back on thread.. a commentator on the news announced, the word "NHS" was mentioned 4 times total in the 450 page document.

Labour has certainly hit the headlines with this, which was the intention. I don't like the use of nurses holding the document up. Like many, people would not have read or understood what it actually was but it would have left an imprint that the NHS was up for sale, when in fact the document (and the NHS itself), was being used as a media tool.

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

Yes, I was surprised to see public sector workers in such an overtly partisan display, especially dressed in clothing issued by their employer.

There may be consequences for them once the election is over (the employer will do nothing during the election to make an issue of it).

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yes, I was surprised to see public sector workers in such an overtly partisan display, especially dressed in clothing issued by their employer.

There may be consequences for them once the election is over (the employer will do nothing during the election to make an issue of it)."

Staff and patients booing Johnson did make me chuckle

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oh and one other thing....another poster mentioned that all the canadian hospitals have charitable status which like private schools in our country gives them an advantage that our nhs does not have. Anyone have any views on that?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If the NHS isn’t for sale then why was it discussed in these six meetings.

Surely after the first meeting a firm no wouldn’t of lead to further discussion..

It dies seem there was something to discuss and the government didn’t say hands off .

It will be a barter chip in trade negotiations under a conservative government.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"The US has made clear on several occasions it wants the NHS in the scope of a trade agreement:

* The President said so on several occasions

* The US Ambassador to the UK said so on several occasions

* The published negotiating strategy of the US identifies "complete market access" to the NHS as a priority.

The US knows the UK negotiating position is weak - and sees a state-run monopoly as rich pickings.

That guy would sell his granny for self-aggrandisement. "

Even if all that is true that's not selling the NHS. They are areas of concern that could lead the NHS paying more, especially as we would be entering into trade negotiations with the US from a position of weakness, but that's not the same thing as selling the NHS. In fact I don't even know how you could sell the NHS. I can see how you could sell the NHS's hospitals and leave them back, similar to the PFI builds in the 90s, and I can see how you could sell sell of contracts for service provision, because we do both of those things now and have been for over 20 years. But I can't see how you can sell off the NHS itself.

Labour should concentrate its efforts on what's possible, and in a bad trade deal with the US the NHS could possibly pay a lot more for drugs and have to offer discount deals to US service providers.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"oh well... looks like labour have blown a huge hole in tory claims with regards to NHS not being part of the fabled uk-us post brexit trade deal...

1) do you mind?

2) do you actually care?

just interested... which party are you more likely to believe when it comes to NHS claims with what they will do to invest"

Sorry Fabio but you've called this one wrong.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Does anyone trust what is said by the Tories.

Proven liars.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think politics should be taken out of the NHS altogether. For doctors to run the NHS and to stop using it as a political football. For instance GPS are now saying they can no longer do home visits and politicians saying that will never happen.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If the NHS isn’t for sale then why was it discussed in these six meetings.

Surely after the first meeting a firm no wouldn’t of lead to further discussion..

It dies seem there was something to discuss and the government didn’t say hands off .

It will be a barter chip in trade negotiations under a conservative government."

You fabricate a link to support your PoV. Fair enough but you cannot argue two negatives like 'If its not for sale then..'

The NHS itself was mentioned (in passing) 4 times in 450 pages of Minutes. These Minutes are the record of meetings held 2 years ago which were 'talks about scoping of talks'. Nothing more. By definition both sides lay out waht they wish to discuss and how it will be discussed. There was no, and could be no, agreement / commitment on ANYTHING!

The USA are concerned about Pharma Patents and want that discussed. It also wants to sell more US Pharma to the NHS as they currently only have about 10% of its purchases and want it discussed.

Nowhere in that document was the proposition 'We want to buy up your NHS' mentioned. So where would the UK side say 'No'?

When I was negotiating quite large contracts in the Automotive sector where you started from had no relationship to where you ended up and sometimes I walked away and sometimes I just lost out. An ITT or RFP was never a final deal. These talks were 'RFP' discussions or 'hello guys what are we going to discuss?' meetings.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Does anyone trust what is said by the Tories.

Proven liars. "

I couldn’t trust them as far as I could spit..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Does anyone trust what is said by the Tories.

Proven liars.

I couldn’t trust them as far as I could spit..

And you trust Labour who have never ever lied? Or the Liberals who lied to thousands of students?

They are politicians so they lie to gain power and a plague on all their houses IMHO. But to me the economy is what counts as a sound economy funds the public services we rely on (like the NHS) and on this I feel safer with Tory hands on those levers than Labour. And I make that call having lived through 3 Labour catastrophes followed by Tory economic revivals.

You can tell when a politician is lying because their lips are moving ..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I’m normally a green voter but this election I’ll go labour for the first time.

I don’t trust conservatives and Boris with Brexit or the NHS .

As a remainer I was going with the liberals but didn’t like what I saw with Swinson .So switched to labour.After Brexit I’ll go back to green.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I’m normally a green voter but this election I’ll go labour for the first time.

I don’t trust conservatives and Boris with Brexit or the NHS .

As a remainer I was going with the liberals but didn’t like what I saw with Swinson .So switched to labour.After Brexit I’ll go back to green.

"
.

Jesus,It's like you've got multiple personalities

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I’m normally a green voter but this election I’ll go labour for the first time.

I don’t trust conservatives and Boris with Brexit or the NHS .

As a remainer I was going with the liberals but didn’t like what I saw with Swinson .So switched to labour.After Brexit I’ll go back to green.

Jesus,It's like you've got multiple personalities

Jesus titty Christ you still going with this .,

The foil is strong in this one ..

Do you still think me and easy and Fabio are the same account??!

Care to list the multiple accounts you think I have hear??

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By *ostafunMan over a year ago

near ipswich

"I’m normally a green voter but this election I’ll go labour for the first time.

I don’t trust conservatives and Boris with Brexit or the NHS .

As a remainer I was going with the liberals but didn’t like what I saw with Swinson .So switched to labour.After Brexit I’ll go back to green.

"
Was it the amount of trees corbyn has promised to plant that swayed you?

seems someone will be busy as it works out 200 trees every minute until 2040.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I’m normally a green voter but this election I’ll go labour for the first time.

I don’t trust conservatives and Boris with Brexit or the NHS .

As a remainer I was going with the liberals but didn’t like what I saw with Swinson .So switched to labour.After Brexit I’ll go back to green.

Was it the amount of trees corbyn has promised to plant that swayed you?

seems someone will be busy as it works out 200 trees every minute until 2040.

The more the merrier..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I’m normally a green voter but this election I’ll go labour for the first time.

I don’t trust conservatives and Boris with Brexit or the NHS .

As a remainer I was going with the liberals but didn’t like what I saw with Swinson .So switched to labour.After Brexit I’ll go back to green.

good man

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By *oodmessMan over a year ago

yumsville

I don't see why Swinson is getting a hard time for her revoke position. If she gets in she has a mandate to revoke. If she offers revoke or referendum the party is no different to Labour. Yet the policy is getting a hammering for the Revoke policy (and her climb down from wanting to be PM). Seems absurd.

Labour are offering Brexit or remain

Libs are offering Revoke - effectively Remain. Why would they offer a referendum? They would get a hammering for having a policy similar to Labour?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I’m normally a green voter but this election I’ll go labour for the first time.

I don’t trust conservatives and Boris with Brexit or the NHS .

As a remainer I was going with the liberals but didn’t like what I saw with Swinson .So switched to labour.After Brexit I’ll go back to green.

Jesus,It's like you've got multiple personalities

Jesus titty Christ you still going with this .,

The foil is strong in this one ..

Do you still think me and easy and Fabio are the same account??!

Care to list the multiple accounts you think I have hear??

"
.

I think your paranoid now pal,I was talking about your flip flopping on voting!.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I’m normally a green voter but this election I’ll go labour for the first time.

I don’t trust conservatives and Boris with Brexit or the NHS .

As a remainer I was going with the liberals but didn’t like what I saw with Swinson .So switched to labour.After Brexit I’ll go back to green.

Jesus,It's like you've got multiple personalities

Jesus titty Christ you still going with this .,

The foil is strong in this one ..

Do you still think me and easy and Fabio are the same account??!

Care to list the multiple accounts you think I have hear??

I think your paranoid now pal,I was talking about your flip flopping on voting!."

No fella you’ve accused easy of being me and vice versa.

You’ve accused me of having multiple accounts..,

Don’t be shy now fella ..

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

The Lib Dems are saying we are for the 48 and to hell with the 52.

The Tories are saying we are with the 52 and to hell with the 48.

You can say both policies are clear, which is important.

But both perpetuate and accentuate the division. Neither seeks any healing.

The only way to heal is compromise.

In the sound-byte age, that is harder to communicate, as Corbyn is finding.

My main concern is that the outcome of this election actually makes the problem worse and deepens the divide.

A hung parliament is more likely to yield a compromise by forcing these toxic forces to moderate in a search for consensus.

I do fear the genie is out of the bottle, however.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't see why Swinson is getting a hard time for her revoke position. If she gets in she has a mandate to revoke. If she offers revoke or referendum the party is no different to Labour. Yet the policy is getting a hammering for the Revoke policy (and her climb down from wanting to be PM). Seems absurd.

Labour are offering Brexit or remain

Libs are offering Revoke - effectively Remain. Why would they offer a referendum? They would get a hammering for having a policy similar to Labour? "

I see entirely why the LibDems are being hammered for 'revoke Art 50'. The UK Electorate gave a decision and yet for the first time in our history that decision has not been enacted because of the Remain majority in Parliament. This has very serious implications for our democracy. And now the Remainers just wish it stopped. Like it never happened. Because they know best?

Even if she gets in then she still wouldn't have a bigger mandate than that given in 2016 unless she garners more than 17.4 Mn votes. To put THAT into context the Labour + Libdem vote in 2017 was 13.5 Mn! And having established the principle of ignoring mandates BoJo could say "Sorry we are not changing Governments because 'we know best' / 'its an act of economic self harm' / 'copy & paste any remainer slogan". We either enact democratic decisions or we have no democracy.

And lastly there is only one difference between the Libdems and Labour on Brexit. Libdems are honest in their betrayal of democracy and Labour are not. Labour's choice in a 2nd Ref will be 'Remainish vs Remain' and they will campaign AGAINST their own 'Remainish' deal. With Corbyn on the fence. Again.

Make it up you couldn't ..

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By *oxychick35Couple over a year ago

thornaby

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The Lib Dems are saying we are for the 48 and to hell with the 52.

The Tories are saying we are with the 52 and to hell with the 48.

You can say both policies are clear, which is important.

But both perpetuate and accentuate the division. Neither seeks any healing.

The only way to heal is compromise.

In the sound-byte age, that is harder to communicate, as Corbyn is finding.

My main concern is that the outcome of this election actually makes the problem worse and deepens the divide.

A hung parliament is more likely to yield a compromise by forcing these toxic forces to moderate in a search for consensus.

I do fear the genie is out of the bottle, however."

What does compromise look like..?

These toxic forces are entrenched if you ask me .

People will vote along Brexit lines forever more..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The Lib Dems are saying we are for the 48 and to hell with the 52.

The Tories are saying we are with the 52 and to hell with the 48.

You can say both policies are clear, which is important.

But both perpetuate and accentuate the division. Neither seeks any healing.

The only way to heal is compromise.

In the sound-byte age, that is harder to communicate, as Corbyn is finding.

My main concern is that the outcome of this election actually makes the problem worse and deepens the divide.

A hung parliament is more likely to yield a compromise by forcing these toxic forces to moderate in a search for consensus.

I do fear the genie is out of the bottle, however."

Hear Hear - I totally agree. And I am a Brexiteer. However in a democracy the majority wins and the minority loses. And the UK Electorate decided (in the biggest mandate ever given) to leave the EU.

There is in a democracy the concept of 'Losers Consent'. In other words when Blair won in 1997 I accepted the result even though I despised the man even then. The other parties accepted it. We all moved on. Right there is the compromise you and I want.

However since 2016 and all the promises then of everyone to accept that decision the Remainers (who have the money, power and political influence) have waged a guerrilla war of words, misrepresentation epitomised by the Project Fear campaign they ran and are still running and blocked all bar one step of enacting the 2016 mandate. 3 1/2 years in and we are still trapped in the EU after TWO extensions. That biggest ever mandate has STILL not been enacted.

This election will either lance that boil, we will leave and we can all move on or we will have 2 more years of argument, a 2nd Scottish Ref. and the two factions will move further apart and become even more entrenched.

If you think I will accept the result of the 2nd referendum if I lose when the Remainers never accepted the 1st one you are dreaming. Why would I and 17.4 Mn others have to? And why indeed should we? What goes round comes round.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The American side asked, doesn't automatically mean the UK offered, don't believe all the lies from one side against another..

They are all liars, and will sya and do whatever they can to discredit the other... M

I'll be happy once this is all over and done with... Whatever the decision is.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The Lib Dems are saying we are for the 48 and to hell with the 52.

The Tories are saying we are with the 52 and to hell with the 48.

You can say both policies are clear, which is important.

But both perpetuate and accentuate the division. Neither seeks any healing.

The only way to heal is compromise.

In the sound-byte age, that is harder to communicate, as Corbyn is finding.

My main concern is that the outcome of this election actually makes the problem worse and deepens the divide.

A hung parliament is more likely to yield a compromise by forcing these toxic forces to moderate in a search for consensus.

I do fear the genie is out of the bottle, however.

Hear Hear - I totally agree. And I am a Brexiteer. However in a democracy the majority wins and the minority loses. And the UK Electorate decided (in the biggest mandate ever given) to leave the EU.

Do you want people to roll over and just accept the brexit shit sandwich based on the campaign to leave, which was based on lies, which undermined democracy.

Maybe leavers could try pointing out some positives from brexit? Instead of repeating the mantras "we won, get over it", "respect democracy", and other such meaningless catchphrases.

As, no doubt you will remember, we were told the process of leaving would take a minimum of five years. People voted for this, and then got angry when the arguments started over which form of Brexit would be pushed through.

Many former remainers are just fighting for the least damaging form of brexit, not to cancel brexit.

A large portion of the additional delay has come from the Tories. For example Boris Johnson who voted against TMs deal, before rebranding it as his own and then voting for it.

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

I accept the 2016 result and recognise the failure to implement it after 3+ years.

Populism is defined as an electoral pitch to the masses that blames an elite for thwarting their legitimate expectations.

Brexit in a nutshell - before 2016 and since 2016.

Now, some might say the ruling class - in its broadest sense - is that elite.

When I look at how they have behaved and compare with, say, how Norway's ruling class dealt with an almost identical situation, it confirms my feeling that our political leaders, without exception, are all out their depth and incapable of providing real leadership.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"I’m normally a green voter but this election I’ll go labour for the first time.

I don’t trust conservatives and Boris with Brexit or the NHS .

As a remainer I was going with the liberals but didn’t like what I saw with Swinson .So switched to labour.After Brexit I’ll go back to green.

I'm waiting to see how Swinson does against Andrew Neil next week but, as my constituency isn't marginal, I'll probably still go LibDem as I remain totally unconvinced by Corbyn's and Labour's offerings so far.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The Lib Dems are saying we are for the 48 and to hell with the 52.

The Tories are saying we are with the 52 and to hell with the 48.

You can say both policies are clear, which is important.

But both perpetuate and accentuate the division. Neither seeks any healing.

The only way to heal is compromise.

In the sound-byte age, that is harder to communicate, as Corbyn is finding.

My main concern is that the outcome of this election actually makes the problem worse and deepens the divide.

A hung parliament is more likely to yield a compromise by forcing these toxic forces to moderate in a search for consensus.

I do fear the genie is out of the bottle, however.

Hear Hear - I totally agree. And I am a Brexiteer. However in a democracy the majority wins and the minority loses. And the UK Electorate decided (in the biggest mandate ever given) to leave the EU.

Still trying to work out who you are by your strident tone - a couple of candidates come to mind - both of whom went unlos either by choice or were b*nned from the forums - care to tell?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" Do you want people to roll over and just accept the brexit shit sandwich based on the campaign to leave, which was based on lies, which undermined democracy.

Maybe leavers could try pointing out some positives from brexit? Instead of repeating the mantras "we won, get over it", "respect democracy", and other such meaningless catchphrases.

Many former remainers are just fighting for the least damaging form of brexit, not to cancel brexit.

A large portion of the additional delay has come from the Tories. For example Boris Johnson who voted against TMs deal, before rebranding it as his own and then voting for it."

Oh look another Remainer project a false premise and then dishing more fear and 'sleight of fact' Same shit different day.

1. No I expect the democratic decision of the UK electorate to be implemented. Just like every other one has been.

2. "the brexit shit sandwich" - You have proof of this colourful falsehood? Have we left yet?

3. "Which was based on lies, which undermined democracy" - What 'lies'? It was a referendum not an election. Both sides were offering visions and suggestions. Want lies? We all got a £9 Mn leaflet that was full of predictions, Project Fear and promises. remember the 'immediate recession'? the 'emergency budget'? The Remain Government led by Cameron PROMISED to enact our decision. That was the biggest lie right there.

4. "Maybe leavers could try pointing out some positives from brexit?" - Oh like the Remain offered ONE advantage of staying in the EU? No they went on a negative campaign and lost. I can give you a long list, starting with £13 Bn a year cost if you have the attention span....Please let me know. You're welcome.

5. "respect democracy and other such meaningless catchphrases" - Oh right. So democracy is just a 'catchphrase' when it suits you? Tells us so much about the Remainer attitude. It stinks.

6. We were not asked about any 'deal' or 'how'. We entrusted that to our Government and by acceptance our Parliament. The voters do not enact. That is the job of Parliament. they asked us, we decided and then they reneged on theiat promise and implied commitment.

I can't be arsed with the rest of your Remainer monologue but suffice to say personally I want an FTA with the EU. To get that we need to leave by any means possible (night follows day) but if the EU want to be twats so be it we leave on WTO terms and trade as we do with the rest of the world which takes 60% of our trade. And can we just remember the EU countries (not the EU itself) run a £100 Bn surplus in Goods trading with the UK every year. So they want an FTA as much as we do and given our total alignment on all matters that can be achieved.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" Still trying to work out who you are by your strident tone - a couple of candidates come to mind - both of whom went unlos either by choice or were b*nned from the forums - care to tell? "

Oh dearie me - still on the personal abuse shit? Throw in a conspiracy theory why not? And 'strident'? Oh you mean factually supported argument....

No Soft Lad I am just me, always have been. You know the one you called 'FartyOldMan'? Its obvious that you are good at dishing the sh*t out but get wound up when someone argues back at you. You add the square root of feck all to the discussions on here and just throw personally offensive crap hoping some will stick. Well as I said to you before good luck with that with me. You will get both barrels when you have a pop at me rather than what I have written. Argue the point and thats fine.

And yet again you prove wonderfully what I have said now many times about you ....you play the man not the ball when someone disagrees.