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Labour manifesto
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Who gives a fuck eh.
Oggy Oggy Oggy | |||
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" Torys are just scum at this point. They have nothing to offer thats poitive so its smear smear smear all the way to the polls." Never thought it would get this bad to say but yes I fully agree. | |||
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"I agree but what do you make of labour manifesto ?" Not checked it out yet. Will have a read when I'm home. | |||
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" Torys are just scum at this point. They have nothing to offer thats poitive so its smear smear smear all the way to the polls. Never thought it would get this bad to say but yes I fully agree. " I’ve just googled their fake website. Jesus Christ these Conservative are really bottom dwellers. They’ve actually persuaded me to now vote labour instead of Lib Dem’s.. They really are the nasty party... | |||
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" Torys are just scum at this point. They have nothing to offer thats poitive so its smear smear smear all the way to the polls. Never thought it would get this bad to say but yes I fully agree. I’ve just googled their fake website. Jesus Christ these Conservative are really bottom dwellers. They’ve actually persuaded me to now vote labour instead of Lib Dem’s.. They really are the nasty party..." You know what Bob, I'm now thinking the same thing. A Labour government just cannot be this deceitful and treat the electorate as dumb bastards like the Conservative party are doing. | |||
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" Torys are just scum at this point. They have nothing to offer thats poitive so its smear smear smear all the way to the polls. Never thought it would get this bad to say but yes I fully agree. I’ve just googled their fake website. Jesus Christ these Conservative are really bottom dwellers. They’ve actually persuaded me to now vote labour instead of Lib Dem’s.. They really are the nasty party... You know what Bob, I'm now thinking the same thing. A Labour government just cannot be this deceitful and treat the electorate as dumb bastards like the Conservative party are doing. " It's impressive in a way. This current batch of Tories seems even more awful than the previous bunch of Tories. | |||
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" Torys are just scum at this point. They have nothing to offer thats poitive so its smear smear smear all the way to the polls. Never thought it would get this bad to say but yes I fully agree. I’ve just googled their fake website. Jesus Christ these Conservative are really bottom dwellers. They’ve actually persuaded me to now vote labour instead of Lib Dem’s.. They really are the nasty party... You know what Bob, I'm now thinking the same thing. A Labour government just cannot be this deceitful and treat the electorate as dumb bastards like the Conservative party are doing. " It’s got Cummings written all over it. Labour can now use these ridiculous smear tactics and fake news to their advantage.The conservatives are now the lying party. This isn’t America it’s not going to sit well in the media or with the public. I’ve never ever voted labour but I absolutely will now. | |||
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" Torys are just scum at this point. They have nothing to offer thats poitive so its smear smear smear all the way to the polls. Never thought it would get this bad to say but yes I fully agree. I’ve just googled their fake website. Jesus Christ these Conservative are really bottom dwellers. They’ve actually persuaded me to now vote labour instead of Lib Dem’s.. They really are the nasty party... You know what Bob, I'm now thinking the same thing. A Labour government just cannot be this deceitful and treat the electorate as dumb bastards like the Conservative party are doing. " Thats great news
Dont get me wrong labour are far from perfect and if i thought lib dems or greens had a could win an election id give them a vote.
Fact is at this point anything and anyone is better than the torys and for all intent and purposes its only really the labour party that can oust them this time around.
I think it will be good to see what this labour party will do in goverment as they are so far away as to what blairs goverment was.
If it doesnt work out hey at least we tried somthing different its not like we have to deal with them for next 100 years.
4-5 years and we just vote in new goverment.
I say lets give JC and labour those 4 years and see what happens.
You never know they might surprise us.
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"Since when avent they been the lying party bob there all the same full of shit like this manifesto lol" All politicians lie to a degree. The Tories are proving to be much, much worse, though. | |||
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"Labour intends to build 100,000 social houses a year for 5 years, just one question, who is going to do the work building these houses, in the past the irish did all the building work in the uk, all the young people in Ireland are highly educated now and all work in white collar jobs so they are not available, they were replaced in the construction industry by eastern europeans but Brexit wants to exclude them, do not expect the English to do any of the work, i worked in the English constitution industry in the 1980s, 95% of the workforce was irish and the few English men i came across on sites were totally work shy and were worse than useless, Don't know where labour is going to get replacement workers for the Irish and east Europeans to do all this heavy work " Thats all ancient history though I do agree that there wont be enough builders to go around but then again if Labour get into power and stop HS2 and the building boom in London slows down then there might be more builders around than you think. I guess we could always bring in Bulgarians and Romanians or even South Africans to do the work? I am joking of course....the real trouble with being a builder in this country is that nobody respects it as a career choice and the training schemes available are more about the physical practicalities then the business or design aspects of it. It is physically demanding and tends to attract kids who might struggle in desk jobs, a bit like being in the forces really. Maybe if we could get away from the idea that all builders are chancers rather than professionals this might change for the better? | |||
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"Im an snp supporter but think labours manifesto is quite good,the scum tories have doubled the national debt with nothing to show for it apart from thousands of foodbanks,im hoping labour win the election because if the scum tories win we are all doomed" so do you think labour manifesto will double it again then ? | |||
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" Torys are just scum at this point. They have nothing to offer thats poitive so its smear smear smear all the way to the polls. Never thought it would get this bad to say but yes I fully agree. I’ve just googled their fake website. Jesus Christ these Conservative are really bottom dwellers. They’ve actually persuaded me to now vote labour instead of Lib Dem’s.. They really are the nasty party... You know what Bob, I'm now thinking the same thing. A Labour government just cannot be this deceitful and treat the electorate as dumb bastards like the Conservative party are doing. Thats great news
Dont get me wrong labour are far from perfect and if i thought lib dems or greens had a could win an election id give them a vote.
Fact is at this point anything and anyone is better than the torys and for all intent and purposes its only really the labour party that can oust them this time around.
I think it will be good to see what this labour party will do in goverment as they are so far away as to what blairs goverment was.
If it doesnt work out hey at least we tried somthing different its not like we have to deal with them for next 100 years.
4-5 years and we just vote in new goverment.
I say lets give JC and labour those 4 years and see what happens.
You never know they might surprise us.
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"This country is desperate for affordable social housing.Its needed. How about we train up and army of youngsters in the building trade. I’m on site today and there aren’t many apprentices here. "Trades are like the Premier League these days..... They'd rather get in job-ready workers rather than train up youngsters. Immediate returns are better for the bottom line. | |||
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" Torys are just scum at this point. They have nothing to offer thats poitive so its smear smear smear all the way to the polls. Never thought it would get this bad to say but yes I fully agree. I’ve just googled their fake website. Jesus Christ these Conservative are really bottom dwellers. They’ve actually persuaded me to now vote labour instead of Lib Dem’s.. They really are the nasty party... You know what Bob, I'm now thinking the same thing. A Labour government just cannot be this deceitful and treat the electorate as dumb bastards like the Conservative party are doing. It’s got Cummings written all over it. It seems like Cummings has given simple instructions to stare dead pan at the cameras and lie and act like a twat when challenged over it then repeat the lie over and over until the interviewer gives up. Job done, a few more million dumb believers "  | |||
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"Im an snp supporter but think labours manifesto is quite good,the scum tories have doubled the national debt with nothing to show for it apart from thousands of foodbanks,im hoping labour win the election because if the scum tories win we are all doomed so do you think labour manifesto will double it again then ? " If this lot gets into power in 10 years time we will be fighting to walk through the channel tunnel to escape the inevitable bankruptcy that will follow it LOL. It'll be like that bridge between columbia and venezuela. Gord fucking well help us. I suppose some of us will be happy though. I wonder how many of these misty eyed socialists on this forum will be. Not that many I suspect, but hey they can always blame the Tories for the next 10 years for making this mess. Oh how I wish Gordon Brown had won back in 2010 and had to form a minority government with Cleggy and co. We wouldn't have had any of this shit, just different shit I guess. I wish I could go back to 2010 and seen my posts because I bet I predicted this was gonna happen. How far does the forum go back. Do they archive this crap for future generations of swingers. | |||
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"Im an snp supporter but think labours manifesto is quite good,the scum tories have doubled the national debt with nothing to show for it apart from thousands of foodbanks,im hoping labour win the election because if the scum tories win we are all doomed so do you think labour manifesto will double it again then ? If this lot gets into power in 10 years time we will be fighting to walk through the channel tunnel to escape the inevitable bankruptcy that will follow it LOL. It'll be like that bridge between columbia and venezuela. Gord fucking well help us. I suppose some of us will be happy though. I wonder how many of these misty eyed socialists on this forum will be. Not that many I suspect, but hey they can always blame the Tories for the next 10 years for making this mess. Oh how I wish Gordon Brown had won back in 2010 and had to form a minority government with Cleggy and co. We wouldn't have had any of this shit, just different shit I guess. I wish I could go back to 2010 and seen my posts because I bet I predicted this was gonna happen. How far does the forum go back. Do they archive this crap for future generations of swingers." Who are you going to vote for ?? | |||
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" Oh how I wish Gordon Brown had won back in 2010 and had to form a minority government with Cleggy and co. We wouldn't have had any of this shit, just different shit I guess. " This has nothing to do with the coalition of 2010,it's all about the deceit and blatant lies from the Conservative party and the low handedness of their tactics. | |||
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" Oh how I wish Gordon Brown had won back in 2010 and had to form a minority government with Cleggy and co. We wouldn't have had any of this shit, just different shit I guess. This has nothing to do with the coalition of 2010,it's all about the deceit and blatant lies from the Conservative party and the low handedness of their tactics. " Hang on. Be fair to the Tories... Never mind. I've got nothing. | |||
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" Oh how I wish Gordon Brown had won back in 2010 and had to form a minority government with Cleggy and co. We wouldn't have had any of this shit, just different shit I guess. This has nothing to do with the coalition of 2010,it's all about the deceit and blatant lies from the Conservative party and the low handedness of their tactics. " think you will find this thread is about labour manifesto lol | |||
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"Tax the rich? Anyone thought about what happens when the rich become poor?" They'd switch to voting Labour | |||
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"Tax the rich? Anyone thought about what happens when the rich become poor?" The rich won't be taxed until they become poor. They'd still be rich. It's a bizarre trick that certain politicians pull. They convince the less well off that the rich shouldn't pay more tax, implying it'd be bad for the less well off...  | |||
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"Tax the rich? Anyone thought about what happens when the rich become poor?" Define rich and define poor? | |||
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"I’m fed up with people on £2500 an hour trying to convince people on £25 an hour that people on minimum wage are getting to much... " | |||
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"Who is this £ 2500/hour man. Be specific Sounds like nonsensical rhetoric to me." David Davis got a bullshit "job" earning more than £3000 an hour for JCB. These things sound crazy, but they really do happen. | |||
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"Who is this £ 2500/hour man. Be specific Sounds like nonsensical rhetoric to me." I think it's quite fucking simple to understand | |||
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"I daresay Jeremy Corbyn gets pretty similar too doesn't he. I don't suppose he gets nowt for writing in the Daily mirror or morning star or whatever his rag of choice is does he ? Or is he that much of a man of principle he writes for nothing. Maybe he does. One thing is for sure he is considerbaly richer than me and will always be so. Nope labour is absolutely barmy at the moment and you will never convince me otherwise. If they get in it will be could the last man out please switch off the lights." You asked for specific examples, so I provided 3 very easily. And I'm sure there are many more. | |||
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"Oh well You got me there. Doesn't make labour's manifesto any better though does it." I guess that is the thread's topic. What do you dislike or distrust about their manifesto? Specifically. | |||
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"Well I don't like the fact that my tax bill is going to rise by about 2500/year as when their crackpot ideas eventually cause economic meltdown they are going to have to get the money from somewhere and PAYE is the easiest place to get it. Fuel duty is going up. Air passenger duty is going up. VAT will have to rise. Interest rates will have to rise to stop the inevitable run on the pound. Would you like me to go on
"If you read their manifesto, you'd see where they plan to get the money. And unless you're far wealthier than average, you'd actually pay less in tax. (As far as I'm aware, the Tories haven't costed their own stuff at all yet. Just an interesting little thought.) I've seen nothing in their manifesto about fuel duty going up. Or air passenger duty going up. As to interest rates in the future, that's all guesswork for any party. It sounds as if you've been reading tabloids rather than the manifesto. | |||
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"Ah that old chestnut is brought out into the forum. The "you haven't read their manifesto." You are a crafty one, that's for sure. If you think their tax raising plans will work then I am sure you will vote for them on the 12th and that fortunately for you is your right but I am pretty sure I will not be doing the same. " I'm not trying to be crafty. I'm just trying to respond to your comments with facts. That's all. You will vote however you wish. That's absolutely your right. It does keep surprising me that people seem happy to accept the blatant lies of the Tories and theie press. But again, that's your right. | |||
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"Labour: A bunch of rich people Trying to convince poor people That "other" rich people Are the reason they are poor" | |||
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"If this manifesto was carried out you are voting for poverty,unemployment and no future for your kids.This manifesto is 10 times worse than a no deal Brexit. Seen nothing on defence yet but knowing Corbyn we know it would be bad. I feel and hope that if he does win the secret services will deal with him and maybe military rule till all tis left wing crap is removed from society.No room for communism in a democratic society and it has to be stopped. I am a democrat by the way and have voted labour in my time but this is not a socialist programme it is pure evil" In fairness to Labour. People with no concept of reality who like to spit on people who vote differently to them. Aren't their target audience. | |||
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"Ah that old chestnut is brought out into the forum. The "you haven't read their manifesto." You are a crafty one, that's for sure. If you think their tax raising plans will work then I am sure you will vote for them on the 12th and that fortunately for you is your right but I am pretty sure I will not be doing the same. I'm not trying to be crafty. I'm just trying to respond to your comments with facts. That's all. You will vote however you wish. That's absolutely your right. It does keep surprising me that people seem happy to accept the blatant lies of the Tories and theie press. But again, that's your right." I just have a brain and can work things out for myself. Even before I even saw that article about the tories claiming a 2.5K increase I worked it out for myself. Would you like to me to direct you to the post and you will see I posted it the day before the Tories came out with their rhetoric. I to be honest am very sceptical of tory promises too, especially with the present encumbant but have no choice. Labours policies are just mad. It would be like a turkey voting for christmas. | |||
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"If this manifesto was carried out you are voting for poverty,unemployment and no future for your kids.This manifesto is 10 times worse than a no deal Brexit. Seen nothing on defence yet but knowing Corbyn we know it would be bad. I feel and hope that if he does win the secret services will deal with him and maybe military rule till all tis left wing crap is removed from society.No room for communism in a democratic society and it has to be stopped. I am a democrat by the way and have voted labour in my time but this is not a socialist programme it is pure evil In fairness to Labour. People with no concept of reality who like to spit on people who vote differently to them. Aren't their target audience." Jesus Christ you’ve been spitting on leave voters for months practice what you preach lol | |||
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"If this manifesto was carried out you are voting for poverty,unemployment and no future for your kids.This manifesto is 10 times worse than a no deal Brexit. Seen nothing on defence yet but knowing Corbyn we know it would be bad. I feel and hope that if he does win the secret services will deal with him and maybe military rule till all tis left wing crap is removed from society.No room for communism in a democratic society and it has to be stopped. I am a democrat by the way and have voted labour in my time but this is not a socialist programme it is pure evil In fairness to Labour. People with no concept of reality who like to spit on people who vote differently to them. Aren't their target audience. Jesus Christ you’ve been spitting on leave voters for months practice what you preach lol" That's a very strange accusation. Spitting on someone isn't anything I've ever done. I enjoy pointing out the absolute lunacy of ordinary people voting leave. But I wouldn't spit on anyone. Ever. | |||
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"Ah that old chestnut is brought out into the forum. The "you haven't read their manifesto." You are a crafty one, that's for sure. If you think their tax raising plans will work then I am sure you will vote for them on the 12th and that fortunately for you is your right but I am pretty sure I will not be doing the same. I'm not trying to be crafty. I'm just trying to respond to your comments with facts. That's all. You will vote however you wish. That's absolutely your right. It does keep surprising me that people seem happy to accept the blatant lies of the Tories and theie press. But again, that's your right. I just have a brain and can work things out for myself. Even before I even saw that article about the tories claiming a 2.5K increase I worked it out for myself. Would you like to me to direct you to the post and you will see I posted it the day before the Tories came out with their rhetoric. I to be honest am very sceptical of tory promises too, especially with the present encumbant but have no choice. Labours policies are just mad. It would be like a turkey voting for christmas." Vote for whoever you want. I'm not trying to change your mind or vote. I just offered facts. | |||
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"If this manifesto was carried out you are voting for poverty,unemployment and no future for your kids.This manifesto is 10 times worse than a no deal Brexit. Seen nothing on defence yet but knowing Corbyn we know it would be bad. I feel and hope that if he does win the secret services will deal with him and maybe military rule till all tis left wing crap is removed from society.No room for communism in a democratic society and it has to be stopped. I am a democrat by the way and have voted labour in my time but this is not a socialist programme it is pure evil In fairness to Labour. People with no concept of reality who like to spit on people who vote differently to them. Aren't their target audience. Jesus Christ you’ve been spitting on leave voters for months practice what you preach lol That's a very strange accusation. Spitting on someone isn't anything I've ever done. I enjoy pointing out the absolute lunacy of ordinary people voting leave. But I wouldn't spit on anyone. Ever." but you like to say others spit on ppl tho read yr own post mate lol | |||
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"Anyone seen it Boris was right when he said they have a money forest lol" Labour's intention is so everyone is treated fairly and the vulnerable aren't abandoned. Tory policy is to sell off public assets so revenue falls to the greedy parasitic elite instead of maintenance of public infrastructure like the railways, like the crumbling gas electric infrastructure, and now the "health industry" the elites fill their banks accounts while mugs like you swallow their lies and keep them scum in power | |||
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"If this manifesto was carried out you are voting for poverty,unemployment and no future for your kids.This manifesto is 10 times worse than a no deal Brexit. Seen nothing on defence yet but knowing Corbyn we know it would be bad. I feel and hope that if he does win the secret services will deal with him and maybe military rule till all tis left wing crap is removed from society.No room for communism in a democratic society and it has to be stopped. I am a democrat by the way and have voted labour in my time but this is not a socialist programme it is pure evil In fairness to Labour. People with no concept of reality who like to spit on people who vote differently to them. Aren't their target audience. Jesus Christ you’ve been spitting on leave voters for months practice what you preach lol That's a very strange accusation. Spitting on someone isn't anything I've ever done. I enjoy pointing out the absolute lunacy of ordinary people voting leave. But I wouldn't spit on anyone. Ever. but you like to say others spit on ppl tho read yr own post mate lol" Only this forum poster, who mentioned specifically that they would spit on anyone who voted remain in the referendum. | |||
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"It doesn’t help when you get knobheads on here slagging of British builders " | |||
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"It doesn’t help when you get knobheads on here slagging of British builders " I can only comment on my own experience of working on projects in London and Manchester in the 1980s, I presume there were some good English builders but i did not come across them, The other side of the coin is all the company's and there foremen were irish and they were the worst shower of bastards you could work for, no matter how hard you worked it was never enough for them, same with all irish owned company's today regardless of what industry they operate in | |||
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"I'm honestly convinced FAB is just populated by gammons, daily mail readers and Sun readers, since the lot of you prefer to argue about lies and when a fact is stated you lot ignore it and continue to argue about lies. "What a pleasant thing to say that if you don't support labour you are thick. Not so sure that will be a vote winner tbh. I think some of these sorts of words are leaking out of constituency meetings and it grates abit to be called thick by your MP. | |||
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"Im an snp supporter but think labours manifesto is quite good,the scum tories have doubled the national debt with nothing to show for it apart from thousands of foodbanks,im hoping labour win the election because if the scum tories win we are all doomed so do you think labour manifesto will double it again then ? " Yes but if they spend it wisely on free tuition fees,housing and creating jobs it will be worth it | |||
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It's not fair. | |||
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"About those free tuition fees. What about my kids who went to Uni 10 years ago and passed with flying colours. both now budding socialists, they are now somewhat grudgingly paying it back through their tax code. Are their debts going to be scrubbed too ? I'd be a bit browned off if I was my kids and watched present kids come through for free. If so how much is the current Student loan book. Hey and what about those that have paid off their debt. I think I'd want my money back too. It's not fair ? I went to college in the 80s and had to pay my tuition fees. When do I get my money back with the interest on it .
It's not fair."You can never step into the same river twice.. | |||
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"Torys are just scum at this point." At this point? They've never been anything else. They're just showing their true nature - because enough people think Boris is a good guy and Brexit is a good idea. They're incompatible with the greater good of humanity; but they usually conceal it more convincingly. | |||
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"If this manifesto was carried out you are voting for poverty,unemployment and no future for your kids.This manifesto is 10 times worse than a no deal Brexit. Seen nothing on defence yet but knowing Corbyn we know it would be bad. I feel and hope that if he does win the secret services will deal with him and maybe military rule till all tis left wing crap is removed from society.No room for communism in a democratic society and it has to be stopped. I am a democrat by the way and have voted labour in my time but this is not a socialist programme it is pure evil In fairness to Labour. People with no concept of reality who like to spit on people who vote differently to them. Aren't their target audience." There audience is the people with no concept of reality and generally lazy and of low intelligence | |||
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"There audience is the people with no concept of reality and generally lazy and of low intelligence" What do you mean? People that prefer to study and cross check facts or... People like you who refer to the common (dis)information and (un)reliable media outlets? Who if not sure, then searches on Google and click on the first link found on labour manifesto, without realising that's a fake link on the issue misguiding the likes of you, _oxychick35 and so on... Emmablu: Do you have an alternative for when the NHS is privatised by the Tories, in case they win? We may end up needing £10k a year just for that... You may live another 30 years after the NHS is privatised, extra £30k, perhaps you can afford it. But what about the 18 year old ones; what will happen to then when the amount rises to £15k a year? | |||
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"There audience is the people with no concept of reality and generally lazy and of low intelligence What do you mean? People that prefer to study and cross check facts or... People like you who refer to the common (dis)information and (un)reliable media outlets? Who if not sure, then searches on Google and click on the first link found on labour manifesto, without realising that's a fake link on the issue misguiding the likes of you, _oxychick35 and so on... Emmablu: Do you have an alternative for when the NHS is privatised by the Tories, in case they win? We may end up needing £10k a year just for that... You may live another 30 years after the NHS is privatised, extra £30k, perhaps you can afford it. But what about the 18 year old ones; what will happen to then when the amount rises to £15k a year? " I meant extra £300k in your case (30 years times £10k). Still, you can perhaps still afford it. | |||
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"The manifesto has been independently fact checked and found to be full of holes. No surprises there. It's all irrelevant anyway, Labour are going to be absolutely decimated at the polls!" Sadly you're right. The mass media has been out to destroy Corbyn since the day he became Labour leader. And people will vote Tory not matter how open and obvious their distain for normal people becomes. | |||
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"The manifesto has been independently fact checked and found to be full of holes. No surprises there. It's all irrelevant anyway, Labour are going to be absolutely decimated at the polls! Sadly you're right. The mass media has been out to destroy Corbyn since the day he became Labour leader. And people will vote Tory not matter how open and obvious their distain for normal people becomes." He who shouts the loudest is the one who's in control We who never listen are the ones who pay the toll | |||
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"The Tories are a disease, labour are the cure!" I would actually put that the other way around. The only problem for the Tories is that their medicine never tastes good. But take it you must.
Every Labour government has left the country in the shit.
After 5 years of Attlee people still had ration books.
The Wilson Callaghan era drove the country into hock with the IMF.
Blair/Brown literally ran out of money.
Of course there was a honeymoon period with all of them, as I'm sure there would be with Corbyn. However, as sure as night follows day, the money will run out and the Tories will have to sweep up the shit AGAIN! And get slagged off for doing it.
I would sum up the Labour manifesto as something like:
What do you want? EVERYTHING!
When do you want it? NOW!
It can't work, it won't work, and it WILL bankrupt the country. No if's, no but's no maybe's.
Bookmark this post and should (god forbid) Corbyn actually win. Come back and read it in around 5 years and we will see who is right and wrong.
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" The Wilson Callaghan era drove the country into hock with the IMF. " Sorry to spoil your story, but both Conservative and Labour chancellors went cap in hand to the IMF: In 1956, 1961, 1962, 1967, 1969 and 1974–5 | |||
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" Blair/Brown literally ran out of money. " Funny thing is I do not remember the country declaring bankruptcy. Fiat currency. Debt as share of GDP when Labour left office in 2010 - 65% Debt as a share of GDP in 2019 - 85% Sorry, whose literally run out of money, again? | |||
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" Blair/Brown literally ran out of money. Funny thing is I do not remember the country declaring bankruptcy. Fiat currency. Debt as share of GDP when Labour left office in 2010 - 65% Debt as a share of GDP in 2019 - 85% Sorry, whose literally run out of money, again? " Does that include the massive "smoke and mirrors" PFI figures that Labour ran up during their tenure? | |||
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"The annual payment made to consortia who built infrastructure under PFI contracts will appear in the revenue expenditure account of Government. Add the revenue expenditure to the capital expenditure for any year and you get a figure for total Government spending in that year. Subtract the income from that figure and you have the deficit, which is covered through borrowing. The amount you borrow each year is added to the national debt. In the case of Conservative chancellors since 2010, that is about £1 trillion. " . That's because they inherited a dire economy with record deficits from errr the labour party  | |||
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"The Tories are a disease, labour are the cure! I would actually put that the other way around. The only problem for the Tories is that their medicine never tastes good. But take it you must.
Every Labour government has left the country in the shit.
After 5 years of Attlee people still had ration books.
The Wilson Callaghan era drove the country into hock with the IMF.
Blair/Brown literally ran out of money.
Of course there was a honeymoon period with all of them, as I'm sure there would be with Corbyn. However, as sure as night follows day, the money will run out and the Tories will have to sweep up the shit AGAIN! And get slagged off for doing it.
I would sum up the Labour manifesto as something like:
What do you want? EVERYTHING!
When do you want it? NOW!
It can't work, it won't work, and it WILL bankrupt the country. No if's, no but's no maybe's.
Bookmark this post and should (god forbid) Corbyn actually win. Come back and read it in around 5 years and we will see who is right and wrong.
"You do talk some old bollocks chump | |||
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" Blair/Brown literally ran out of money. Funny thing is I do not remember the country declaring bankruptcy. Fiat currency. Debt as share of GDP when Labour left office in 2010 - 65% Debt as a share of GDP in 2019 - 85% Sorry, whose literally run out of money, again? " . You don't run out of money but what you do when you follow this policy is you just devalue your currency, you know the very thing you've spent a year telling people brexit caused it. | |||
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" The Wilson Callaghan era drove the country into hock with the IMF. Sorry to spoil your story, but both Conservative and Labour chancellors went cap in hand to the IMF: In 1956, 1961, 1962, 1967, 1969 and 1974–5" Not exactly "Cap in Hand" for the earlier loans. Both Labour and Tory. They were just part of budgeted government borrowing. The 1976 loan was a bailout because Britain was skint. | |||
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"The annual payment made to consortia who built infrastructure under PFI contracts will appear in the revenue expenditure account of Government. Add the revenue expenditure to the capital expenditure for any year and you get a figure for total Government spending in that year. Subtract the income from that figure and you have the deficit, which is covered through borrowing. The amount you borrow each year is added to the national debt. In the case of Conservative chancellors since 2010, that is about £1 trillion. . That's because they inherited a dire economy with record deficits from errr the labour party "Stop with the half truths - the bankers fucked up - labour had to pick up the pieces and got kicked in the arse by a scared electorate fed lies by a right wing media. Gordon Brown did a lot more for this country than Boris will ever achieve. | |||
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"The annual payment made to consortia who built infrastructure under PFI contracts will appear in the revenue expenditure account of Government. Add the revenue expenditure to the capital expenditure for any year and you get a figure for total Government spending in that year. Subtract the income from that figure and you have the deficit, which is covered through borrowing. The amount you borrow each year is added to the national debt. In the case of Conservative chancellors since 2010, that is about £1 trillion. . That's because they inherited a dire economy with record deficits from errr the labour party
Stop with the half truths - the bankers fucked up - labour had to pick up the pieces and got kicked in the arse by a scared electorate fed lies by a right wing media. Gordon Brown did a lot more for this country than Boris will ever achieve.". Who was in charge of regulating the banks for 10 years before the crash?. | |||
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" Blair/Brown literally ran out of money. Funny thing is I do not remember the country declaring bankruptcy. Fiat currency. Debt as share of GDP when Labour left office in 2010 - 65% Debt as a share of GDP in 2019 - 85% Sorry, whose literally run out of money, again? " Nice spin by producing half a story. But it just doesn't wash. As you well know, the borrowing after 2010 mostly went on replenishing the coffers and keeping the country running after Labours p  igacy.
So you slag off the Tories for borrowing too much, then slag them off again for austerity.
You lot really do want it both ways. | |||
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" . That's because they inherited a dire economy with record deficits from errr the labour party "Yes, the Brown government, like every government faced with the liquidity crisis in the Atlantic financial system from 2007 onwards, turned on the spending taps. When banks cease lending, money dries up. When money dries up, businesses collapse and economies go into recession. Unless Government steps in to inject money, the recession turns into depression. Every government did the same. So did the central banks. At the 2010 election, both Labour and Conservative put forward plans to bring the budget back into balance. The Conservative Party by 2015, Labour a few years later. The last figure I heard from the Conservative Party for a balanced budget is 2024. So the borrowing has continued for a lot longer. Now, where has the borrowed money gone? When interest rates are so low, governments can effectively borrow money for free - the minuscule interest is eroded by inflation. The sensible thing to do is to invest that borrowing in capital projects, infrastructure, which in turn generates economic growth and tax receipts. It appears this government has used the borrowed money to pay for reductions in tax rates at the higher end of the scale. | |||
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If it wasn't so fucking unfunny we'd all have a good giggle. | |||
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" Blair/Brown literally ran out of money. Funny thing is I do not remember the country declaring bankruptcy. Fiat currency. Debt as share of GDP when Labour left office in 2010 - 65% Debt as a share of GDP in 2019 - 85% Sorry, whose literally run out of money, again? Nice spin by producing half a story. But it just doesn't wash. As you well know, the borrowing after 2010 mostly went on replenishing the coffers and keeping the country running after Labours p igacy.
So you slag off the Tories for borrowing too much, then slag them off again for austerity.
You lot really do want it both ways. "So what have the tories achieved in 9 years of austerity? We owe more money, the pound is losing value and investment is at an all time low? Is that success?  | |||
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"Wasn't us governor, it were dem evil bankers... Who errr we were in charge of regulating for a decade.
If it wasn't so fucking unfunny we'd all have a good giggle."Ok, if Labour caused the financial crash, how do you explain the collapse of the financial system in the US, Germany, France ad infinitum? | |||
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"Austerity was ideological. It had nothing to do with balancing the books. Indeed, economists will tell you that austerity leads to weaker recovery from recession. Why? Because it removes the spending power of people most likely to spend and keep the economy moving. Austerity was political cover for a redistribution of spending - removing money from areas where it was most likely to flow into the wider economy and using it to offset the tax bills of those who, to put in crudely, prefer to hoarde money rather than spend it. " . Horde? What did they do, put it under the mattress
Get the step ladder love, this mattress is 38ft high with the 6 billon I've got stuffed under it. | |||
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"Wasn't us governor, it were dem evil bankers... Who errr we were in charge of regulating for a decade.
If it wasn't so fucking unfunny we'd all have a good giggle.
Ok, if Labour caused the financial crash, how do you explain the collapse of the financial system in the US, Germany, France ad infinitum?
". How do you explain the far easts financial system didn't go under?. I didn't say they were the only ones poorly regulating their national banks but the fact remains labour were in charge of regulating the UK banks for 10 whole years, they were even pre warned about it when Gordon sold all our gold. Don't believe me though, read his memoirs yourself | |||
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"Reminds of the joke about where is the capital of England? In offshore bank accounts. " . You do know off shore bank accounts aren't actually on those tiny Islands don't you!. It's in the banking system, you know the one that lends people money for businesses and mortgages .
Like I said if lefties ideas about economics weren't so fucking unfunny we'd all giggle | |||
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"The Gaul of it all is they've spent 10 years slagging off Tory austerity when the real culprits for it were... The labour party." Have the tories lowered the national debt? What has austerity achieved? Did the previous labour government cause the global crisis in 2008? | |||
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"I see the conservatives are at it again... After changing one of their own site to a factchecked site and being ridiculed for it they have now set up another site attacking labour called lanourmanifesto . Com Can the torys not just focus on their own campaign and what they intend to do to make the country better instead of using street gutter tactics and smear campaigns. Not sure why anyone would see a postive in what the torys keep doing, they edited and put up a fake video on their website when good morning britain did a interview with a labour MP too. Torys are just scum at this point. They have nothing to offer thats poitive so its smear smear smear all the way to the polls." Good bit of deflection their but what are your thoughts on Labour's manifesto? Pot calling kettle black. | |||
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"Austerity was ideological. It had nothing to do with balancing the books. Indeed, economists will tell you that austerity leads to weaker recovery from recession. Why? Because it removes the spending power of people most likely to spend and keep the economy moving. Austerity was political cover for a redistribution of spending - removing money from areas where it was most likely to flow into the wider economy and using it to offset the tax bills of those who, to put in crudely, prefer to hoarde money rather than spend it. . Horde? What did they do, put it under the mattress
Get the step ladder love, this mattress is 38ft high with the 6 billon I've got stuffed under it."They were supposed to use the excess money on re paying the national debt? Why has it increased ?? | |||
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"Gordon sold all our gold. Don't believe me though, read his memoirs yourself "Oh dear. The liquidity crisis in the Atlantic financial system did not occur because the UK Government reduced its holdings of gold. | |||
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"Remember quantitative easing? How much money did the BoE magic up from thin air and invest in the City of London to repair its balance sheets? £465 billion. So the City slickers soon got back on their feet and rewarding themselves again with huge bonuses. The flip side to that was austerity. While money was pouring into the financial system, the political wing of the City (i.e. the Conservative Party) started pulling the rug from under the feet of the ordinary person through savage cuts across the public sector. A consequence of that was a huge widening of inequality in the UK. The payback was Brexit. " You do realise that, one way or another, around 25% of the governments tax take comes from the financial sector. So go for it. Crucify the banks and investment houses Etc. Then when they've all fucked off to Singapore Labour will have to find another bogey man. | |||
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"Remember quantitative easing? How much money did the BoE magic up from thin air and invest in the City of London to repair its balance sheets? £465 billion. So the City slickers soon got back on their feet and rewarding themselves again with huge bonuses. The flip side to that was austerity. While money was pouring into the financial system, the political wing of the City (i.e. the Conservative Party) started pulling the rug from under the feet of the ordinary person through savage cuts across the public sector. A consequence of that was a huge widening of inequality in the UK. The payback was Brexit. " ..QE just transferred bad bank debt from there balance sheet onto the BoE balance sheet. No actual money changed hands. Deficit spending by the government was out of control due to the economic hit the country took from the crash and needed to be reigned in eventually, that's what we're seeing today, we did actually continue borrowing and spending for quite a few years after the crash, it can't go on forever, somebody (and it's always the Tories) has to real in the over spending. I wasn't actually in favour of QE myself, I was in favour of capitalism where the investers took the hit, Iceland proved that the system doesn't fail, it just crashes and reboots, however crashes tend to affect everybody rich and poor, bailouts tend to hit the poor the hardest well because they don't have anything to bailout | |||
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" Oh how I wish Gordon Brown had won back in 2010 and had to form a minority government with Cleggy and co. We wouldn't have had any of this shit, just different shit I guess. This has nothing to do with the coalition of 2010,it's all about the deceit and blatant lies from the Conservative party and the low handedness of their tactics. " But I honestly don't see why that's a good reason for switching from the LibDems to Labour. | |||
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"Remember quantitative easing? How much money did the BoE magic up from thin air and invest in the City of London to repair its balance sheets? £465 billion. So the City slickers soon got back on their feet and rewarding themselves again with huge bonuses. The flip side to that was austerity. While money was pouring into the financial system, the political wing of the City (i.e. the Conservative Party) started pulling the rug from under the feet of the ordinary person through savage cuts across the public sector. A consequence of that was a huge widening of inequality in the UK. The payback was Brexit. You do realise that, one way or another, around 25% of the governments tax take comes from the financial sector. So go for it. Crucify the banks and investment houses Etc. Then when they've all fucked off to Singapore Labour will have to find another bogey man." That's partly the reason that the banks crashed in the UK. Brown and Blair allowed deregulation to go unchecked, as they were reaping in the huge tax incomes from the City. | |||
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" Oh how I wish Gordon Brown had won back in 2010 and had to form a minority government with Cleggy and co. We wouldn't have had any of this shit, just different shit I guess. This has nothing to do with the coalition of 2010,it's all about the deceit and blatant lies from the Conservative party and the low handedness of their tactics. But I honestly don't see why that's a good reason for switching from the LibDems to Labour. " It was reason enough for me... | |||
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"Gordon sold all our gold. Don't believe me though, read his memoirs yourself
Oh dear.
The liquidity crisis in the Atlantic financial system did not occur because the UK Government reduced its holdings of gold.". Oh dear, you've not read his memoirs then?. He clearly states he sold the gold to prop up Goldman Sachs who were in the hock balance sheet wise on derivatives... You know derivatives? The thing that caused the liquidity problem in the Atlantic (those people who'd badly regulated their banks, not the far East ) financial system. | |||
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"Remember quantitative easing? How much money did the BoE magic up from thin air and invest in the City of London to repair its balance sheets? £465 billion. So the City slickers soon got back on their feet and rewarding themselves again with huge bonuses. The flip side to that was austerity. While money was pouring into the financial system, the political wing of the City (i.e. the Conservative Party) started pulling the rug from under the feet of the ordinary person through savage cuts across the public sector. A consequence of that was a huge widening of inequality in the UK. The payback was Brexit. ..QE just transferred bad bank debt from there balance sheet onto the BoE balance sheet. No actual money changed hands. Deficit spending by the government was out of control due to the economic hit the country took from the crash and needed to be reigned in eventually, that's what we're seeing today, we did actually continue borrowing and spending for quite a few years after the crash, it can't go on forever, somebody (and it's always the Tories) has to real in the over spending. I wasn't actually in favour of QE myself, I was in favour of capitalism where the investers took the hit, Iceland proved that the system doesn't fail, it just crashes and reboots, however crashes tend to affect everybody rich and poor, bailouts tend to hit the poor the hardest well because they don't have anything to bailout "Do yourself a favour and watch a documentary called "The Inside Job" presented by Matt Damon. | |||
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"Remember quantitative easing? How much money did the BoE magic up from thin air and invest in the City of London to repair its balance sheets? £465 billion. So the City slickers soon got back on their feet and rewarding themselves again with huge bonuses. The flip side to that was austerity. While money was pouring into the financial system, the political wing of the City (i.e. the Conservative Party) started pulling the rug from under the feet of the ordinary person through savage cuts across the public sector. A consequence of that was a huge widening of inequality in the UK. The payback was Brexit. You do realise that, one way or another, around 25% of the governments tax take comes from the financial sector. So go for it. Crucify the banks and investment houses Etc. Then when they've all fucked off to Singapore Labour will have to find another bogey man." Maybe they will all go to Germany , that will make you happy | |||
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"Remember quantitative easing? How much money did the BoE magic up from thin air and invest in the City of London to repair its balance sheets? £465 billion. So the City slickers soon got back on their feet and rewarding themselves again with huge bonuses. The flip side to that was austerity. While money was pouring into the financial system, the political wing of the City (i.e. the Conservative Party) started pulling the rug from under the feet of the ordinary person through savage cuts across the public sector. A consequence of that was a huge widening of inequality in the UK. The payback was Brexit. ..QE just transferred bad bank debt from there balance sheet onto the BoE balance sheet. No actual money changed hands. Deficit spending by the government was out of control due to the economic hit the country took from the crash and needed to be reigned in eventually, that's what we're seeing today, we did actually continue borrowing and spending for quite a few years after the crash, it can't go on forever, somebody (and it's always the Tories) has to real in the over spending. I wasn't actually in favour of QE myself, I was in favour of capitalism where the investers took the hit, Iceland proved that the system doesn't fail, it just crashes and reboots, however crashes tend to affect everybody rich and poor, bailouts tend to hit the poor the hardest well because they don't have anything to bailout
Do yourself a favour and watch a documentary called "The Inside Job" presented by Matt Damon. ". I'm not keen on internet conspiracy theories or Matt Damon | |||
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"The Gaul of it all is they've spent 10 years slagging off Tory austerity when the real culprits for it were... The labour party." Try researching credible materials the next time. It's just embarrassing to read otherwise | |||
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"Remember quantitative easing? How much money did the BoE magic up from thin air and invest in the City of London to repair its balance sheets? £465 billion. So the City slickers soon got back on their feet and rewarding themselves again with huge bonuses. The flip side to that was austerity. While money was pouring into the financial system, the political wing of the City (i.e. the Conservative Party) started pulling the rug from under the feet of the ordinary person through savage cuts across the public sector. A consequence of that was a huge widening of inequality in the UK. The payback was Brexit. You do realise that, one way or another, around 25% of the governments tax take comes from the financial sector. So go for it. Crucify the banks and investment houses Etc. Then when they've all fucked off to Singapore Labour will have to find another bogey man. Maybe they will all go to Germany , that will make you happy "Nah! Spain's warmer.  | |||
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"The Gaul of it all is they've spent 10 years slagging off Tory austerity when the real culprits for it were... The labour party. Try researching credible materials the next time. It's just embarrassing to read otherwise " . I can't be doing with the guardian gender studies, they bore the pants off me | |||
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"The irony is, that if Labour get elected, they will have to use a capitalist system to raise money. I did see some quotes from leading Bond traders, that they weren't keen in the slightest in buying up massive amounts of Goverment stock. " I’m all for socially and environmentally responsible capitalism . What’s not to like.., | |||
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"We have had a decade of people on below-average and average incomes being squeezed until the pips squeak. Supposedly to help the country get back on its feet. Am I concerned that Labour says it is now the turn of those earning well-well-above average incomes to feel the squeeze, too? Not in the fucking slightest. ". Again there not a captive audience, good luck trying though. | |||
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"We have had a decade of people on below-average and average incomes being squeezed until the pips squeak. Supposedly to help the country get back on its feet. Am I concerned that Labour says it is now the turn of those earning well-well-above average incomes to feel the squeeze, too? Not in the fucking slightest. "Robert Kiyosaki said it best in "Rich Dad Poor Dad". The poor vote for higher taxes because they don't earn enough for it to affect them. The rich can afford to hire clever accountants who find ways for them to avoid taxes. The tax burden then rests on the shoulders of the middle class. | |||
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"Anyway, speaking of books, I'll leave this with a couple of recommendations of books well worth reading: "Crashed - How a Decade of Financial Crises Changed the World" by Adam Tooze "Eurotragedy - A Drama in Nine Acts" by Ashoka Mody Heavy-going, for sure. But very informative. And very insightful of the fundamental flaws in policy and structure of the Eurozone. " . EVERYBODY knows the eurozone is fundamentally flawed, alas nobody had a plan B of what to do when it went tits so they stagger on to the end, it's like all other financial decisions, they much prefer to kick the can down the road so they don't get called evil austerity mongers. The Japanese don't do blame only solutions. So let's talk solutions instead of the endless blame game for a change  | |||
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"Remember quantitative easing? How much money did the BoE magic up from thin air and invest in the City of London to repair its balance sheets? £465 billion. So the City slickers soon got back on their feet and rewarding themselves again with huge bonuses. The flip side to that was austerity. While money was pouring into the financial system, the political wing of the City (i.e. the Conservative Party) started pulling the rug from under the feet of the ordinary person through savage cuts across the public sector. A consequence of that was a huge widening of inequality in the UK. The payback was Brexit. You do realise that, one way or another, around 25% of the governments tax take comes from the financial sector. So go for it. Crucify the banks and investment houses Etc. Then when they've all fucked off to Singapore Labour will have to find another bogey man. Maybe they will all go to Germany , that will make you happy
Nah! Spain's warmer. "Yeah , or Spain, anywhere but Britain for you ?? | |||
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"Anyway, speaking of books, I'll leave this with a couple of recommendations of books well worth reading: "Crashed - How a Decade of Financial Crises Changed the World" by Adam Tooze "Eurotragedy - A Drama in Nine Acts" by Ashoka Mody Heavy-going, for sure. But very informative. And very insightful of the fundamental flaws in policy and structure of the Eurozone. . EVERYBODY knows the eurozone is fundamentally flawed, alas nobody had a plan B of what to do when it went tits so they stagger on to the end, it's like all other financial decisions, they much prefer to kick the can down the road so they don't get called evil austerity mongers. The Japanese don't do blame only solutions. So let's talk solutions instead of the endless blame game for a change "Come on then - tell us how things should be done in the world of man on fire? It would be fascinating to hear you put forward some positive thinking  | |||
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"Remember quantitative easing? How much money did the BoE magic up from thin air and invest in the City of London to repair its balance sheets? £465 billion. So the City slickers soon got back on their feet and rewarding themselves again with huge bonuses. The flip side to that was austerity. While money was pouring into the financial system, the political wing of the City (i.e. the Conservative Party) started pulling the rug from under the feet of the ordinary person through savage cuts across the public sector. A consequence of that was a huge widening of inequality in the UK. The payback was Brexit. You do realise that, one way or another, around 25% of the governments tax take comes from the financial sector. So go for it. Crucify the banks and investment houses Etc. Then when they've all fucked off to Singapore Labour will have to find another bogey man. Maybe they will all go to Germany , that will make you happy
Nah! Spain's warmer.
Yeah , or Spain, anywhere but Britain for you ??"So you have (again) run out of intelligent argument so resort to this childish nonsense. It is quite typical of the Labour party and it's supporters these days though. I've explained why I live where I do quite a few times on here, and cheap shots are just water off a ducks back. | |||
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"The irony is, that if Labour get elected, they will have to use a capitalist system to raise money. I did see some quotes from leading Bond traders, that they weren't keen in the slightest in buying up massive amounts of Goverment stock. " Where is the irony? Their not a Communist party, or you think it is?  | |||
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"Remember quantitative easing? How much money did the BoE magic up from thin air and invest in the City of London to repair its balance sheets? £465 billion. So the City slickers soon got back on their feet and rewarding themselves again with huge bonuses. The flip side to that was austerity. While money was pouring into the financial system, the political wing of the City (i.e. the Conservative Party) started pulling the rug from under the feet of the ordinary person through savage cuts across the public sector. A consequence of that was a huge widening of inequality in the UK. The payback was Brexit. You do realise that, one way or another, around 25% of the governments tax take comes from the financial sector. So go for it. Crucify the banks and investment houses Etc. Then when they've all fucked off to Singapore Labour will have to find another bogey man. Maybe they will all go to Germany , that will make you happy
Nah! Spain's warmer.
Yeah , or Spain, anywhere but Britain for you ??
So you have (again) run out of intelligent argument so resort to this childish nonsense.
It is quite typical of the Labour party and it's supporters these days though.
I've explained why I live where I do quite a few times on here, and cheap shots are just water off a ducks back.
"Unlike the Tory party creating a fake Labour manifesto web site? Get a grip. | |||
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"Anyone seen it Boris was right when he said they have a money forest lol" Actually seems not too bad. There's a belated sovereign wealth oil fund. Funding the nationalisation is the least likely follow through. No companies will flee the country and few individuals will, especially if we remain in the EU. It's doable. No less so than the Tory "plans" | |||
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"Anyway, speaking of books, I'll leave this with a couple of recommendations of books well worth reading: "Crashed - How a Decade of Financial Crises Changed the World" by Adam Tooze "Eurotragedy - A Drama in Nine Acts" by Ashoka Mody Heavy-going, for sure. But very informative. And very insightful of the fundamental flaws in policy and structure of the Eurozone. . EVERYBODY knows the eurozone is fundamentally flawed, alas nobody had a plan B of what to do when it went tits so they stagger on to the end, it's like all other financial decisions, they much prefer to kick the can down the road so they don't get called evil austerity mongers. The Japanese don't do blame only solutions. So let's talk solutions instead of the endless blame game for a change
Come on then - tell us how things should be done in the world of man on fire? It would be fascinating to hear you put forward some positive thinking ". Well we could start at the beginning seen as it's where were at. Break up the banks and regulate them on risk just like pension companies are. Let casino banks be free to indulge in craziness at the expense of the investors. Ring fence NHS spending, we all put X amount in a week via national insurance so we can see what we get and how much it costs, everybody loves transparency. Instead of policies aimed at general GDP increase we should policy towards GDP per capita. Interest rates need to return to 5 or 6% asap, capital will look elsewhere otherwise causing asset bubbles. Most importantly we've got to reconcile that there's a percentage of our population that are by all accounts unemployable, there needs to be a government scheme for these people to long term work.. Potato picking, hedgerow clearing, rock breaking should of course be reserved for prisoners. | |||
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" Come on then - tell us how things should be done in the world of man on fire? It would be fascinating to hear you put forward some positive thinking "There was a quote on the DP today .. for all the time Blair was in government, despite pledges, they built 3000 houses total. If you cannot see the irony in what Labour plan to do, then no amount of explanation even from the IFS will sway your your thought process. | |||
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"The claim: Boris Johnson unexpectedly unveiled the Conservatives' plan to raise the threshold at which people start paying National Insurance contributions. He said: "If we're lucky enough to be elected, so the first Budget we will go up to the £9,500 threshold and that will, as I say, put £500 into the pockets of everybody." Reality Check verdict: That's not the correct figure. The Conservatives' own press release says the benefit from raising the threshold to £9,500 in 2020-21 would be £100 per year. The Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) says it would be £85 per year. " That's correct but, if you're really going tell the whole truth then you should also say that the intension is to raise it £12,000 over 5 years and at £12,000 that would be worth about £500 a year. Johnson actually said that they intend to raise the starting rate for NI to £12,000 and in the first year it would increase to £9,500. That's £500 a year for everyone. Still not enough to convince me to vote Conservative but, if you're going to call people out about dishonesty then you do need to check fully what they actually said. | |||
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"There audience is the people with no concept of reality and generally lazy and of low intelligence What do you mean? People that prefer to study and cross check facts or... People like you who refer to the common (dis)information and (un)reliable media outlets? Who if not sure, then searches on Google and click on the first link found on labour manifesto, without realising that's a fake link on the issue misguiding the likes of you, _oxychick35 and so on... Emmablu: Do you have an alternative for when the NHS is privatised by the Tories, in case they win? We may end up needing £10k a year just for that... You may live another 30 years after the NHS is privatised, extra £30k, perhaps you can afford it. But what about the 18 year old ones; what will happen to then when the amount rises to £15k a year? " What do you mean by privatise? The NHS will remain free at the point of delivery regardless who wins the GE. This whole "The NHS is going to sold off" is the biggest single lie of this election. | |||
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"There audience is the people with no concept of reality and generally lazy and of low intelligence What do you mean? People that prefer to study and cross check facts or... People like you who refer to the common (dis)information and (un)reliable media outlets? Who if not sure, then searches on Google and click on the first link found on labour manifesto, without realising that's a fake link on the issue misguiding the likes of you, _oxychick35 and so on... Emmablu: Do you have an alternative for when the NHS is privatised by the Tories, in case they win? We may end up needing £10k a year just for that... You may live another 30 years after the NHS is privatised, extra £30k, perhaps you can afford it. But what about the 18 year old ones; what will happen to then when the amount rises to £15k a year? What do you mean by privatise? The NHS will remain free at the point of delivery regardless who wins the GE. This whole "The NHS is going to sold off" is the biggest single lie of this election. " It makes a massive difference. It's not just about how we receive it at the point of necessity. They key point is that the more that the NHS is opened up to the market and market forces, the more that private providers can get their claws in then the more profit is made. This means that less of the money put into the NHS goes in to front line service as it's pocketed away by shareholders and billionaires. So it's a crucial question! Our NHS is one of the most efficient health services in the world, and the more privatisation that creeps in the worse that becomes. It is a vital, vital question. | |||
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"There audience is the people with no concept of reality and generally lazy and of low intelligence What do you mean? People that prefer to study and cross check facts or... People like you who refer to the common (dis)information and (un)reliable media outlets? Who if not sure, then searches on Google and click on the first link found on labour manifesto, without realising that's a fake link on the issue misguiding the likes of you, _oxychick35 and so on... Emmablu: Do you have an alternative for when the NHS is privatised by the Tories, in case they win? We may end up needing £10k a year just for that... You may live another 30 years after the NHS is privatised, extra £30k, perhaps you can afford it. But what about the 18 year old ones; what will happen to then when the amount rises to £15k a year? What do you mean by privatise? The NHS will remain free at the point of delivery regardless who wins the GE. This whole "The NHS is going to sold off" is the biggest single lie of this election. " Its all that they have got and as for waving a piece of paper around on the debate great theatre but no proof. | |||
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"There audience is the people with no concept of reality and generally lazy and of low intelligence What do you mean? People that prefer to study and cross check facts or... People like you who refer to the common (dis)information and (un)reliable media outlets? Who if not sure, then searches on Google and click on the first link found on labour manifesto, without realising that's a fake link on the issue misguiding the likes of you, _oxychick35 and so on... Emmablu: Do you have an alternative for when the NHS is privatised by the Tories, in case they win? We may end up needing £10k a year just for that... You may live another 30 years after the NHS is privatised, extra £30k, perhaps you can afford it. But what about the 18 year old ones; what will happen to then when the amount rises to £15k a year? What do you mean by privatise? The NHS will remain free at the point of delivery regardless who wins the GE. This whole "The NHS is going to sold off" is the biggest single lie of this election. It makes a massive difference. It's not just about how we receive it at the point of necessity. They key point is that the more that the NHS is opened up to the market and market forces, the more that private providers can get their claws in then the more profit is made. This means that less of the money put into the NHS goes in to front line service as it's pocketed away by shareholders and billionaires. So it's a crucial question! Our NHS is one of the most efficient health services in the world, and the more privatisation that creeps in the worse that becomes. It is a vital, vital question." . France, Germany and Holland all seem to manage it ok, are you sure your not just stuck in the 50s. | |||
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"We already pay for the NHS, it isn't free. If Tories sell it, we'll just be paying for it in a fairer way." If they sell the NHS, we will all end up paying far more for treatment and medicine. Just look at the USA. | |||
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"We already pay for the NHS, it isn't free. If Tories sell it, we'll just be paying for it in a fairer way. If they sell the NHS, we will all end up paying far more for treatment and medicine. Just look at the USA." The USA, the world leader in pioneering healthcare. Miles ahead of our NHS. | |||
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"We already pay for the NHS, it isn't free. If Tories sell it, we'll just be paying for it in a fairer way. If they sell the NHS, we will all end up paying far more for treatment and medicine. Just look at the USA. The USA, the world leader in pioneering healthcare. Miles ahead of our NHS." The USA, where people go bankrupt just to pay their healthcare bills. | |||
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"We already pay for the NHS, it isn't free. If Tories sell it, we'll just be paying for it in a fairer way. If they sell the NHS, we will all end up paying far more for treatment and medicine. Just look at the USA. The USA, the world leader in pioneering healthcare. Miles ahead of our NHS." There's a much worse record in health over in America. How do you explain that? | |||
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"We already pay for the NHS, it isn't free. If Tories sell it, we'll just be paying for it in a fairer way. If they sell the NHS, we will all end up paying far more for treatment and medicine. Just look at the USA. The USA, the world leader in pioneering healthcare. Miles ahead of our NHS. There's a much worse record in health over in America. How do you explain that? " That person's either trolling or they just haven't read any of the damning assessments of the USA healthcare system and its costs. | |||
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"There audience is the people with no concept of reality and generally lazy and of low intelligence What do you mean? People that prefer to study and cross check facts or... People like you who refer to the common (dis)information and (un)reliable media outlets? Who if not sure, then searches on Google and click on the first link found on labour manifesto, without realising that's a fake link on the issue misguiding the likes of you, _oxychick35 and so on... Emmablu: Do you have an alternative for when the NHS is privatised by the Tories, in case they win? We may end up needing £10k a year just for that... You may live another 30 years after the NHS is privatised, extra £30k, perhaps you can afford it. But what about the 18 year old ones; what will happen to then when the amount rises to £15k a year? What do you mean by privatise? The NHS will remain free at the point of delivery regardless who wins the GE. This whole "The NHS is going to sold off" is the biggest single lie of this election. " Absolutely right. Not one shred of evidence that the Conservatives, or indeed any other party, plans to sell off the NHS. And its a bit rich coming from the Labour Party, the party that oversaw the massive PFI scandal in the NHS during their last tenure. That policy has probably done more to harm the NHS than anything else. | |||
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"We already pay for the NHS, it isn't free. If Tories sell it, we'll just be paying for it in a fairer way." Selling off an asset for what? Explain to me where you see that as a positive? I am genuinely mystified because unless you are in the medical insurance business I cant see the benefit to anyone unless the already well paid consultants feel the meed to compete with American levels of remuneration. Do you have a rationale for your point of view? | |||
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" Most importantly we've got to reconcile that there's a percentage of our population that are by all accounts unemployable, there needs to be a government scheme for these people to long term work.. Potato picking, hedgerow clearing, rock breaking should of course be reserved for prisoners. "There was just such a scheme, but we got rid of it in the 1980s. It was called nationalised industry, which meant everyone who could work was guaranteed a job. Now we pay people NOT to work. | |||
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"There audience is the people with no concept of reality and generally lazy and of low intelligence What do you mean? People that prefer to study and cross check facts or... People like you who refer to the common (dis)information and (un)reliable media outlets? Who if not sure, then searches on Google and click on the first link found on labour manifesto, without realising that's a fake link on the issue misguiding the likes of you, _oxychick35 and so on... Emmablu: Do you have an alternative for when the NHS is privatised by the Tories, in case they win? We may end up needing £10k a year just for that... You may live another 30 years after the NHS is privatised, extra £30k, perhaps you can afford it. But what about the 18 year old ones; what will happen to then when the amount rises to £15k a year? What do you mean by privatise? The NHS will remain free at the point of delivery regardless who wins the GE. This whole "The NHS is going to sold off" is the biggest single lie of this election. Absolutely right. Not one shred of evidence that the Conservatives, or indeed any other party, plans to sell off the NHS. And its a bit rich coming from the Labour Party, the party that oversaw the massive PFI scandal in the NHS during their last tenure. That policy has probably done more to harm the NHS than anything else. " So we now have lots of new hospitals which were funded through PFI which wasnt the greatest idea but the question is what alternative was there at the time? If you can show me a tory proposal that would have been better then I would be happy to see it but as far as I can see there wasnt one at the time. Also I imagine lots of tory supporters have done quite well out of investing in these companies that built them and many are more than happy to use them too. | |||
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"The claim: Boris Johnson unexpectedly unveiled the Conservatives' plan to raise the threshold at which people start paying National Insurance contributions. He said: "If we're lucky enough to be elected, so the first Budget we will go up to the £9,500 threshold and that will, as I say, put £500 into the pockets of everybody." Reality Check verdict: That's not the correct figure. The Conservatives' own press release says the benefit from raising the threshold to £9,500 in 2020-21 would be £100 per year. The Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) says it would be £85 per year. That's correct but, if you're really going tell the whole truth then you should also say that the intension is to raise it £12,000 over 5 years and at £12,000 that would be worth about £500 a year. Johnson actually said that they intend to raise the starting rate for NI to £12,000 and in the first year it would increase to £9,500. That's £500 a year for everyone. Still not enough to convince me to vote Conservative but, if you're going to call people out about dishonesty then you do need to check fully what they actually said." Johnson didn't actually state his intention did he? He just put the big number in to sound good. How does that effect the deficit with the spending promises? There's no increase in higher rate taxes to compensate are there? They are just not making a corporation tax cut that they were going to which apparently "creates" more money to spend | |||
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"Well I don't like the fact that my tax bill is going to rise by about 2500/year as when their crackpot ideas eventually cause economic meltdown they are going to have to get the money from somewhere and PAYE is the easiest place to get it. Fuel duty is going up. Air passenger duty is going up. VAT will have to rise. Interest rates will have to rise to stop the inevitable run on the pound. Would you like me to go on
"So you earn about £120,000 per year. Or about 5 times the median household income. And you are being asked to pay a bit more tax. My heart bleeds for you. -Matt | |||
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"There audience is the people with no concept of reality and generally lazy and of low intelligence What do you mean? People that prefer to study and cross check facts or... People like you who refer to the common (dis)information and (un)reliable media outlets? Who if not sure, then searches on Google and click on the first link found on labour manifesto, without realising that's a fake link on the issue misguiding the likes of you, _oxychick35 and so on... Emmablu: Do you have an alternative for when the NHS is privatised by the Tories, in case they win? We may end up needing £10k a year just for that... You may live another 30 years after the NHS is privatised, extra £30k, perhaps you can afford it. But what about the 18 year old ones; what will happen to then when the amount rises to £15k a year? What do you mean by privatise? The NHS will remain free at the point of delivery regardless who wins the GE. This whole "The NHS is going to sold off" is the biggest single lie of this election. " Your social views are quite liberal I think, but you are a proper capitalist and have a business head. The Tories created an "internal market" for the NHS to promote "best practice" (not competition of course). More lucrative procedures carried out in private hospitals. Complex stuff stays on the state books. GPs become "budget holders". Exactly the skills that they are taught at medical school...oh wait, no they aren't. More practise managers and GP commissioning groups. Chronic underfunding leads to discontent with the service. You really think this is not slow privatisation? Brexit then leads to a US trade "deal" which will be easy with no UK concessions on access to the NHS "internal market" or agriculture. Come on! | |||
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"Well I don't like the fact that my tax bill is going to rise by about 2500/year as when their crackpot ideas eventually cause economic meltdown they are going to have to get the money from somewhere and PAYE is the easiest place to get it. Fuel duty is going up. Air passenger duty is going up. VAT will have to rise. Interest rates will have to rise to stop the inevitable run on the pound. Would you like me to go on
So you earn about £120,000 per year. Or about 5 times the median household income.
And you are being asked to pay a bit more tax.
My heart bleeds for you.
-Matt"You only earn £120 000 per year? My heart bleeds for you too. I had no idea so many people were so exploited. | |||
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"The Labour Party the Conservative both pull exactly the same trick. PFI was an iteration of a previous Conservative policy. Both were dreamt up as window dressing for the books. Keeping big-ticket items off the public accounts, so that in a few years time each could go to voters and say: "Look how good we have been." It is crazy, but a symptom of five-year policy planning. Take Hinkley Point C. It would have been cheaper for the government to borrow its construction costs. No, that would've made the books look bad. So instead they concoct a crazy scheme where electricity users will be paying a premium rate for 50 years. The Government gets a big shiny plant that isn't on the books; the public gets a super-inflated bill in return. Just as mad. " . Yes I agree, completely bonkers. Infrastructure is exactly what government spending should be about. | |||
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"Now that is a hard one....Just who should we vote for ? Do we do it for ourselves or what we think others moan about. Ex Armed Forces that fought terrorists. Never claimed a Penny from the State. Put kids through Uni, when we were eating Beans on toast do do it. Both in Public Sector uniformed Services. Homeowners. Worked since we were 16/18. Scrimped and saved bloody hard and have shares in some Ex Nationalised Industries. No Brainer for Us." . If you have never claimed a penny from the state you maybe entitled to some money , you mention that your kids went to uni ,it maybe that you had previously been entitled to child benefit , might be worth you looking into | |||
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"Ohmygawd, you could read up on the USA helthcare system. If you did, you might see how incredibly flawed it is. " Watch this: https://youtu.be/-GB8nq6CW-8 While we consider getting am American style healthcare system some Americans are pushing for a system thats more like the NHS. Watch this and see it as a warning. Link it to what said in the debate. Is the NHS for sale? | |||
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" Blair/Brown literally ran out of money. Funny thing is I do not remember the country declaring bankruptcy. Fiat currency. Debt as share of GDP when Labour left office in 2010 - 65% Debt as a share of GDP in 2019 - 85% Sorry, whose literally run out of money, again? Nice spin by producing half a story. But it just doesn't wash. As you well know, the borrowing after 2010 mostly went on replenishing the coffers and keeping the country running after Labours p igacy.
So you slag off the Tories for borrowing too much, then slag them off again for austerity.
You lot really do want it both ways.
So what have the tories achieved in 9 years of austerity? We owe more money, the pound is losing value and investment is at an all time low? Is that success? "Well it was sort of working, even if the price in loss of service was too high, but unfortunately they went and fucked it all by taking their eyes of the ball and messing around with BREXIT instead. | |||
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"Well I don't like the fact that my tax bill is going to rise by about 2500/year as when their crackpot ideas eventually cause economic meltdown they are going to have to get the money from somewhere and PAYE is the easiest place to get it. Fuel duty is going up. Air passenger duty is going up. VAT will have to rise. Interest rates will have to rise to stop the inevitable run on the pound. Would you like me to go on
So you earn about £120,000 per year. Or about 5 times the median household income.
And you are being asked to pay a bit more tax.
My heart bleeds for you.
-Matt
You only earn £120 000 per year?
My heart bleeds for you too.
I had no idea so many people were so exploited. "Not as bad as that twazzock on Question Time last night that kept calling Labour liars and insisting that because he earns over £80K that he is not in the top 5%. He even thought he wasn't in the top 50%. Some people are just so disconnected from reality. -Matt | |||
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"Austerity was ideological. It had nothing to do with balancing the books. Indeed, economists will tell you that austerity leads to weaker recovery from recession. Why? Because it removes the spending power of people most likely to spend and keep the economy moving. Austerity was political cover for a redistribution of spending - removing money from areas where it was most likely to flow into the wider economy and using it to offset the tax bills of those who, to put in crudely, prefer to hoarde money rather than spend it. " But if austerity really was just a political choice why did Alistair Darrling introduce it in 2008, and why did both Gordon Brown and Ed Milliband include it in their election campaigns in both 2010 & 2015. | |||
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