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Corbyn vs Johnson
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The women doing the refereeing was too lightweight.
Corbyn was on about the lack of Doctors and Nurses in the NHS.
But he also pledged to introduce a 4 day week for everyone. 
That should solve the problem then ( or not)  |
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So the nation is just as divided lol
Whether Brexit happens or not, we will remain divided with half the nation unhappy!
But would we be so unhappy and divided now if we hadn’t had the referendum in the first place? No |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So the nation is just as divided lol
Whether Brexit happens or not, we will remain divided with half the nation unhappy!
But would we be so unhappy and divided now if we hadn’t had the referendum in the first place? No"
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"So the nation is just as divided lol
Whether Brexit happens or not, we will remain divided with half the nation unhappy!
But would we be so unhappy and divided now if we hadn’t had the referendum in the first place? No"
I can only see it getting worse in the short to medium term and if we Brexit, the long term as the UK breaks apart. No sane country would ever have contemplated anything like Brexit on the votes of 37% of the electorate. |
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I stand somewhere between Lib-dems and labour. Labour with a different leader would defo get my vote. Torys won’t get my vote with any leader.
Despite what Boris says the NHS is slowly being sold off. Richard Branson has many contracts within the NHS. I have a nearby GP’s surgery which is run by a private American company on behalf of the NHS. It will only get worse. Our money going to the CEO’s of private medical companies |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So the nation is just as divided lol
Whether Brexit happens or not, we will remain divided with half the nation unhappy!
But would we be so unhappy and divided now if we hadn’t had the referendum in the first place? No
I can only see it getting worse in the short to medium term and if we Brexit, the long term as the UK breaks apart. No sane country would ever have contemplated anything like Brexit on the votes of 37% of the electorate. "
Sorry that is typical remainer 'sleight of fact' and playing the % game. But it was 52% of the electorate who took the trouble to go and vote. And btw in Psephology those who do not vote are deemed to be 'happy to go along with the majority decision' so you could add those 12 Mn to the 17.4 Mn who did vote to leave.
It was the biggest mandate ever given in a British vote. So to have had it betrayed for 3 1/2 years by a Remainer Parliament is utterly shameful!
In My Honest Brexiteer Opinion of course ... Other opinions are available
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I stand somewhere between Lib-dems and labour. Labour with a different leader would defo get my vote. Torys won’t get my vote with any leader.
Despite what Boris says the NHS is slowly being sold off. Richard Branson has many contracts within the NHS. I have a nearby GP’s surgery which is run by a private American company on behalf of the NHS. It will only get worse. Our money going to the CEO’s of private medical companies "
You do know that every GP is a private business and has been since 1948?
Would you stop all private involvement? Like Marie Curie cancer?
The Tories haven't added much more 'privatisation' than Burnahm did when he was Labour's Health Sec. And he oversaw the Stafford deaths... |
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"I stand somewhere between Lib-dems and labour. Labour with a different leader would defo get my vote. Torys won’t get my vote with any leader.
Despite what Boris says the NHS is slowly being sold off. Richard Branson has many contracts within the NHS. I have a nearby GP’s surgery which is run by a private American company on behalf of the NHS. It will only get worse. Our money going to the CEO’s of private medical companies
You do know that every GP is a private business and has been since 1948?
Would you stop all private involvement? Like Marie Curie cancer?
The Tories haven't added much more 'privatisation' than Burnahm did when he was Labour's Health Sec. And he oversaw the Stafford deaths..."
Richard Branson has many more contracts within the NHS under the Tories |
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"I stand somewhere between Lib-dems and labour. Labour with a different leader would defo get my vote. Torys won’t get my vote with any leader.
Despite what Boris says the NHS is slowly being sold off. Richard Branson has many contracts within the NHS. I have a nearby GP’s surgery which is run by a private American company on behalf of the NHS. It will only get worse. Our money going to the CEO’s of private medical companies
You do know that every GP is a private business and has been since 1948?
Would you stop all private involvement? Like Marie Curie cancer?
The Tories haven't added much more 'privatisation' than Burnahm did when he was Labour's Health Sec. And he oversaw the Stafford deaths...
Richard Branson has many more contracts within the NHS under the Tories"
Cuz its all a conspiracy.... innit... (sarcasm for those that don’t see it) |
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"The women doing the refereeing was too lightweight.
Corbyn was on about the lack of Doctors and Nurses in the NHS.
But he also pledged to introduce a 4 day week for everyone.
That should solve the problem then ( or not) "
Some Hospital nurses work a 3 day week so that wouldn't really be affected. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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They all spend our money n tax what we have more so they can claim feeding goldfish on expenses.
They are skilled in lying bullying rude and not performing any other job they be sacked |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So the nation is just as divided lol
Whether Brexit happens or not, we will remain divided with half the nation unhappy!
But would we be so unhappy and divided now if we hadn’t had the referendum in the first place? No
I can only see it getting worse in the short to medium term and if we Brexit, the long term as the UK breaks apart. No sane country would ever have contemplated anything like Brexit on the votes of 37% of the electorate. "
Bremainers accuse brexitiers of miss information but your argument is is what they call a fallacy and miss information.
roughly 75% of the electorate (Highest in political history) voted, out of that 75% 52% voted to leave which as you say equates to roughly 37%, but by that same argument only 31% voted to remain.
So by your argument it would be 31% who would be deciding the future of the country as opposed to the 37%. that are.
Politicians keep banding round figures to suit their arguments and not the facts.
On the flip side if have a second referendum high proportion of the disenfranchised voters are not likely to vote again and they estimate second referendum would attract about 30-35% of the electorate one of the lowest in political history, poll suggest there would be roughly a 52%/48% split of the 30-35% who are likely to vote to remain, which equates roughly to about 16-18% of the voting electorate who will be deciding the future of the country - again this is pro remain democracy?
Saw Jo Swinson being interview earlier she kept saying most of the people want to remain in the EU - no most of the people voted to leave, she is using miss information to push to stop brexit which she openly accused the brexitiers of doing to get us to vote leave.
All the politicians/parties signed up to abide by the result of the referendum - I guess in the small print T &Cs - only if the vote went the way it wanted to. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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With my neutral head on - it was a draw. No disasters both sides - only fuckups were when both were laughed at once at individual points. Polls unlikely to drastically change as a result. |
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By *andKBCouple
over a year ago
Plymouth |
I still cant figure out what to do nor can C!! We are usually both lib dems voters. Which in recent years has been difficult.
Neither of us liked Farron much, mostly due to the fact he let religion interfere. And swinson is truly awful.
C is considering an actual vote of no confidence and I'm considering labour.
Corbyn isn't a strong leader though because a Blair type leader (not Blair just someone with his skills for debate, etc) would've had this election in the bag weeks ago! |
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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago
Hull |
I reckon we didn't get to see the full side of each of them, as we were limited to only 1 Hour, in favour of another hour of I'm a Celebrity.
If the debate had been 2 hours, it might have shown up weaknesses against strengths in more detail.
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"I still cant figure out what to do nor can C!! We are usually both lib dems voters. Which in recent years has been difficult.
Neither of us liked Farron much, mostly due to the fact he let religion interfere. And swinson is truly awful.
C is considering an actual vote of no confidence and I'm considering labour.
Corbyn isn't a strong leader though because a Blair type leader (not Blair just someone with his skills for debate, etc) would've had this election in the bag weeks ago! "
We tend to always vote on the person/party we least hate. I’d like Starmer as Labour leader I think |
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"it was 52% of the electorate who took the trouble to go and vote. And btw in Psephology those who do not vote are deemed to be 'happy to go along with the majority decision' so you could add those 12 Mn to the 17.4 Mn who did vote to leave.
It was the biggest mandate ever given in a British vote. "
The biggest mandate ever? In 1975 67.2% voted to join the EU. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"it was 52% of the electorate who took the trouble to go and vote. And btw in Psephology those who do not vote are deemed to be 'happy to go along with the majority decision' so you could add those 12 Mn to the 17.4 Mn who did vote to leave.
It was the biggest mandate ever given in a British vote.
The biggest mandate ever? In 1975 67.2% voted to join the EU. "
But how many people voted?
It's not about the percentage one way or the other but total voter turnout.
For example, Nicola Sturgeon and her SNP colleagues keep going on about the 62% of Scots who voted to remain - but that 62% amounts to just 1.5 million people (versus the 1 million Scots who voted for brexit)
The trouble is that she'd get nowhere with her argument if she bandied on about the 1.5 million Scots who voted to remain because that figure pales into insignificance against the 17.4 million Brits who voted to leave.
62% of course sounds more impressive. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"it was 52% of the electorate who took the trouble to go and vote. And btw in Psephology those who do not vote are deemed to be 'happy to go along with the majority decision' so you could add those 12 Mn to the 17.4 Mn who did vote to leave.
It was the biggest mandate ever given in a British vote.
The biggest mandate ever? In 1975 67.2% voted to join the EU. "
Just looked it up.
In 1975, 12,951,598 people voted in favour of remaining in the EEC
8,908,508 voted against.
Again, showing that using percentages is misleading. Yes, a higher proportion of the electorate voted to remain, but the tital number of votes cast was just under 22 million.
Compare that to the 2016 vote where there were about 33.5 million votes cast - hence, the biggest vote in our history. |
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By *hechapMan
over a year ago
Derry |
Dec 12th people will vote for a corrupt politican who will promise you the sun, moon and the stars and once they get your X and get in power they will shite on you.
I hope they dont make anymore cuts to mental health as it would be a direct slap in the teeth to the voters who are not very well...
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We are swing voters "excuse the euphemism" don't have any party affiliations. We don't believe that voting one way or another because your parents did and their parents.
We are only interested in the party that will work best for the country and on behalf of their electorate as a whole and not certain groups within that electorate. That goes for all parties.
Most of JC/Labour policies are economically unsustainable.
Free university education is a wonderful idea in theory but economically unsustainable, what the they don't tell you is that it would mean far fewer university places for English students as in the Scottish system. So yes free education would be great for the few that could get it - so University would have to look to elsewhere for to recoup losses in foreign students or those from privileged backgrounds that could pay, oooooops JC not very socialist.
Yes students vole for JC and get free education for a select few which probably won't include you.
12 December election is not about who's best but who's least worst |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
Free university education is a wonderful idea in theory but economically unsustainable, what the they don't tell you is that it would mean far fewer university places for English students as in the Scottish system. So yes free education would be great for the few that could get it - so University would have to look to elsewhere for to recoup losses in foreign students or those from privileged backgrounds that could pay, "
I think you need to re-look at the experience of Scotland and the abolition of tuition fees.
These were scrapped in 2001 for students whose primary residence is in Scotland (or, more accurately, the bill was picked up by the state rather than the student).
To avoid further and higher education establishments being swamped by applications for free education places from the rest of the UK, fees were retained for those students whose primary address was elsewhere in the UK.
So, no, the scrapping of tuition fees in Scotland did not result in fewer students from Scotland going to university.
The only country with fees comparable to England is the USA.
Germany has scrapped tuition fees and most European countries have low or no fees.
England is quite an exception.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Couldn't vote for either, but Corbyn came across as incredibly evasive and a bit sly.
he's just another snake oil salesman like Blair, the only difference is Blair went under the New Labour banner, whereas Corbyn is Momentum Labour, an entirely different and frankly quite scary entity in itself.
Either way, both Boris & Corbyn were quite superficial and lacked substance.
I can't wait for the renationalisation lies to tumbling out during the coming debates, as Jezza knows, whilst we're in the EU he cannot nationalise anything.
Still, the free money tree we're all going to get should Momentum win the GE might come in handy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"All i heard was get brexit done over and over again from the Dominic Cummings clone "
He’s started looking like a one trick pony .If he keeps that mantra up he’ll not get a majority.
Boris has most to lose..  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The women doing the refereeing was too lightweight.
Corbyn was on about the lack of Doctors and Nurses in the NHS.
But he also pledged to introduce a 4 day week for everyone.
That should solve the problem then ( or not) "
Do you know how shift patterns work? Or do you think Labour are going to ban work on Fri/Sat/Sun? |
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"Couldn't vote for either, but Corbyn came across as incredibly evasive and a bit sly.
he's just another snake oil salesman like Blair, the only difference is Blair went under the New Labour banner, whereas Corbyn is Momentum Labour, an entirely different and frankly quite scary entity in itself.
Either way, both Boris & Corbyn were quite superficial and lacked substance.
I can't wait for the renationalisation lies to tumbling out during the coming debates, as Jezza knows, whilst we're in the EU he cannot nationalise anything.
Still, the free money tree we're all going to get should Momentum win the GE might come in handy. "
How do you figure that?
Our utilities are already nationalised. For example the French government holds 83% shares in EDF.
Deutche Bahn runs a few rail franchises, majority shareholder the German government.
SNCF is state run and is the majority shareholder in the company that a chunk of the others. With the Dutch government running the rest...
Our government can borrow as much as it likes to cover the acquisition costs anyway. So it just depends on how the services are run, and how soon the profits can be put back into the treasury. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"The women doing the refereeing was too lightweight.
Corbyn was on about the lack of Doctors and Nurses in the NHS.
But he also pledged to introduce a 4 day week for everyone.
That should solve the problem then ( or not)
Do you know how shift patterns work? Or do you think Labour are going to ban work on Fri/Sat/Sun?"
Shift patterns or not they will need an extra 20% more doctors and nurses and raise the cost by an extra 20% too.Thats just to stand still. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I can't wait for the renationalisation lies to tumbling out during the coming debates, as Jezza knows, whilst we're in the EU he cannot nationalise anything.
False."
Exactly this
The EU stops the bailing out of ailing private companies by using public money!
The U.K. can however renationalise companies once the contract is up |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Can do more than that?
Do you know how many commercial railway companies are owned by the UK Government?
Do you know how many commercial shipping lines are owned by the UK Government?
The largest supplier of electricity in the UK is government-owned.
The largest operator in the North Sea is government-owned.
How many of the train-operating companies are government-owned?
The answer to those questions tell you some people are talking nonsense when it comes to state ownership of industry and the rules governing "state aid".
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"The women doing the refereeing was too lightweight.
Corbyn was on about the lack of Doctors and Nurses in the NHS.
But he also pledged to introduce a 4 day week for everyone.
That should solve the problem then ( or not)
Do you know how shift patterns work? Or do you think Labour are going to ban work on Fri/Sat/Sun?"
Ah, so we're looking at the end of weekends i guess. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I can't wait for the renationalisation lies to tumbling out during the coming debates, as Jezza knows, whilst we're in the EU he cannot nationalise anything.
False."
.
Sort of, again your not being wholly honest like the original poster.
The fourth rail package comes in in 2023 where all member states will be forced to open up railways to the private sector, EU States that subsidise travel massively now will have to rethink in four years time.
Personally I'm in favour of nationalisation of the railways providing it's ring fenced and ran well. |
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"So the nation is just as divided lol
Whether Brexit happens or not, we will remain divided with half the nation unhappy!
But would we be so unhappy and divided now if we hadn’t had the referendum in the first place? No
I can only see it getting worse in the short to medium term and if we Brexit, the long term as the UK breaks apart. No sane country would ever have contemplated anything like Brexit on the votes of 37% of the electorate.
Sorry that is typical remainer 'sleight of fact' and playing the % game. But it was 52% of the electorate who took the trouble to go and vote. And btw in Psephology those who do not vote are deemed to be 'happy to go along with the majority decision' so you could add those 12 Mn to the 17.4 Mn who did vote to leave.
It was the biggest mandate ever given in a British vote. So to have had it betrayed for 3 1/2 years by a Remainer Parliament is utterly shameful!
In My Honest Brexiteer Opinion of course ... Other opinions are available
"
It’s not really “sleight of fact”. It’s an actual fact. About a third of the electorate votes to leave, and about two thirds didn’t.
And Labour’s proposal of a final say on a deal is hardly betraying anything. It seems perfectly reasonable, given that so much about the original vote flawed, and around 5% of the voters have since died, and there are around 5% new voters who weren’t old enough in 2016. That’s 10% difference since 2016. |
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"I stand somewhere between Lib-dems and labour. Labour with a different leader would defo get my vote. Torys won’t get my vote with any leader.
Despite what Boris says the NHS is slowly being sold off. Richard Branson has many contracts within the NHS. I have a nearby GP’s surgery which is run by a private American company on behalf of the NHS. It will only get worse. Our money going to the CEO’s of private medical companies "
GP's practices have always been run by the private sector. Most doctors usually work for a partnership which is/was normally owned by the partners, not dissimilar to the way most law firms and other true professional services are provided.
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"it was 52% of the electorate who took the trouble to go and vote. And btw in Psephology those who do not vote are deemed to be 'happy to go along with the majority decision' so you could add those 12 Mn to the 17.4 Mn who did vote to leave.
It was the biggest mandate ever given in a British vote.
The biggest mandate ever? In 1975 67.2% voted to join the EU.
But how many people voted?
It's not about the percentage one way or the other but total voter turnout.
For example, Nicola Sturgeon and her SNP colleagues keep going on about the 62% of Scots who voted to remain - but that 62% amounts to just 1.5 million people (versus the 1 million Scots who voted for brexit)
The trouble is that she'd get nowhere with her argument if she bandied on about the 1.5 million Scots who voted to remain because that figure pales into insignificance against the 17.4 million Brits who voted to leave.
62% of course sounds more impressive."
I don’t think the size of the mandate is determined by the total number of people who vote.
If there was 100% turn out in the election, but no party had an overall majority, would you argue that they had the “biggest ever mandate to govern”? |
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"The women doing the refereeing was too lightweight.
Corbyn was on about the lack of Doctors and Nurses in the NHS.
But he also pledged to introduce a 4 day week for everyone.
That should solve the problem then ( or not)
Do you know how shift patterns work? Or do you think Labour are going to ban work on Fri/Sat/Sun?Shift patterns or not they will need an extra 20% more doctors and nurses and raise the cost by an extra 20% too.Thats just to stand still."
There are currently around 39,000 nurse vacancies.
Why would labour ban work on Friday / Saturday / Sunday? That’s like saying work is already banned on Saturday and Sunday. |
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