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Can britain ever recover from brexit?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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With this I mean even tho it havent happened and probably never will it have caused a big devide and with the union too. I say it might but it will take a very long time  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"With this I mean even tho it havent happened and probably never will it have caused a big devide and with the union too. I say it might but it will take a very long time "
It will take time. When the older baby boomer generation who voted to leave gradually become extinct we can then rejoin . It will probably take 20-25 years |
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Brexit is just another step in the long slow decline of britain,what will mark this step as different will be the break up of the union and while scotland and a reunited Ireland will prosper in europe, we will then be referring to the long slow decline of England |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
No.
Because Brexit isn't really about the EU - it's about Britain and its continuing decline from imperial dominance.
It thought it could reverse that decline by throwing its hat into the ring with Europe.
But the compromise and negotiation required to be part of a club of equals is alien to a country that was used to simply imposing its rules on everyone else.
Now Britain has decided that's not what it wants after all, so it is back on the 20th century pathway that was stayed briefly through membership of the EU.
Britain simply has been unable to figure out its role in the world since losing its empire.
The creation of Great Britain and Northern Ireland was part of that imperial expansion and its disintegration will be the final act of imperial disintegration.
So, no, Britain in the sense you recognise it today will not recover, because it will not exist.
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
5 years from now after a rough time we will be fine,the EU will be falling apart and remoaners will have to amit thy where wrong.
To most people they will just get on with life.
Of course if Corbyn wins election then I hope we stay in because the EU will stop a lot of his nasty left wing plans |
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Brexit is just another step in the long slow decline of britain,what will mark this step as different will be the break up of the union and while scotland and a reunited Ireland will prosper in europe, we will then be referring to the long slow decline of England
I totally agree!  |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
Of course if Corbyn wins election then I hope we stay in because the EU will stop a lot of his nasty left wing plans"
Which Labour policy is contrary to the rules of the single market?
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"No.
Because Brexit isn't really about the EU - it's about Britain and its continuing decline from imperial dominance.
It thought it could reverse that decline by throwing its hat into the ring with Europe.
But the compromise and negotiation required to be part of a club of equals is alien to a country that was used to simply imposing its rules on everyone else.
Now Britain has decided that's not what it wants after all, so it is back on the 20th century pathway that was stayed briefly through membership of the EU.
Britain simply has been unable to figure out its role in the world since losing its empire.
The creation of Great Britain and Northern Ireland was part of that imperial expansion and its disintegration will be the final act of imperial disintegration.
So, no, Britain in the sense you recognise it today will not recover, because it will not exist.
"
Sarah you are right about us not knowing our role in the modern world and being in the EU I feel makes this harder.Assuming we leave we will have to find a new role, and strive together to make a new Britain,yes a different Britain.In time hopefuly unite more a nation,this will not happen right away I know.
Why you are so negative baffles me,and why so many are negative baffles me.
Yes there is a lot wrong in this land and in all nations,a lot wrong on this planet but the only way to get things right is to have a positive outlook about changes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"5 years from now after a rough time we will be fine,the EU will be falling apart and remoaners will have to amit thy where wrong.
To most people they will just get on with life.
Of course if Corbyn wins election then I hope we stay in because the EU will stop a lot of his nasty left wing plans"
In 5 years we will still be negotiating trade deals, So when does this ‘rough time ‘start ? And can you define ‘fine’ ? I can’t see many of you leave voters living long enough to witness the conclusion to Brexit, maybe that is why you voted to leave  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"5 years from now after a rough time we will be fine,the EU will be falling apart and remoaners will have to amit thy where wrong.
To most people they will just get on with life.
Of course if Corbyn wins election then I hope we stay in because the EU will stop a lot of his nasty left wing plans"
Short sightedness is whats wrong with this country. It may well be that you are right about the EU but its demise wont do any of us any good. The three great superpowers did not want a fourth and so are doing their best to destroy the EU. Have you ever wondered why Africa South America or the Arabian nations have not been able to become superpowers? Its called destabilisation and is the aim of our American allies and the CIA in particular, and now they are bringing it to Europe. If you think that Britain will ever be great again with friends like the USA then I think you should read a little history first. We are being used to break up what has become a major economic threat to USA interests (boeing vs airbus for instance) and our leaders are either dumber than we think or willing accomplices. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
Why you are so negative baffles me,and why so many are negative baffles me.
Yes there is a lot wrong in this land and in all nations,a lot wrong on this planet but the only way to get things right is to have a positive outlook about changes. "
You believe I am negative because you hold to the idea that Great Britain and Northern Ireland is indivisible.
It's not.
There was a time people like you held to the idea that the Empire was indivisible. It wasn't.
In fact, every time a country wanted to end rule from London, people here railed against it, believing no country could stand on its own two feet without the umbilical cord attached to such a superior nation.
Every time you were proved wrong.
The disintegration of Britain's imperial grandeur isn't finished.
You call that negative. I simply see it as inevitable.
The nationalism engulfing England today isn't GB & NI nationalism. It is English nationalism.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A bright future ahead for an independent uk ....I wonder if the eu feels the same ......they are in bigger shit than this great country ... im looking forward not back .
"
PMSL, you have written some bollocks in the past bit this is up there with your best work  |
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"Brexit is just another step in the long slow decline of britain,what will mark this step as different will be the break up of the union and while scotland and a reunited Ireland will prosper in europe, we will then be referring to the long slow decline of England
I totally agree! "
what a load of rubbish. |
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"A bright future ahead for an independent uk ....I wonder if the eu feels the same ......they are in bigger shit than this great country ... im looking forward not back .
PMSL, you have written some bollocks in the past bit this is up there with your best work "
you might think it's bollocks but it just might be true. Take the blinkers off |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A bright future ahead for an independent uk ....I wonder if the eu feels the same ......they are in bigger shit than this great country ... im looking forward not back .
PMSL, you have written some bollocks in the past bit this is up there with your best work you might think it's bollocks but it just might be true. Take the blinkers off"
Of course it ‘might ‘ be true. What are you basing your predictions on? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Yes, in the world of 2019 you are either writing the rules or following them.
There are three blocs that write the rules - USA, EU and China (BRICS).
The idea that UK can be the fourth is for the birds.
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
A majority in England want to take Britain in a different direction.
The problem I see is that different direction isn't being articulated very well.
I can deduce what a majority in England do not want.
I cannot deduce what they do want.
Unless or until that is articulated, the current mood of English nationalism comes across as insular and xenophobic.
That isn't any sort of vision for these islands.
England really needs to decide what it wants to do, before the rest of these islands make that decision for her.
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The decline started after ww1,the 30s were saw the beginning of the end of heavy industry like shipbuilding and steel, after ww2 Britain was bankrupt and lost its empire, it was only kept viable with American funds through marshall aid which paid for a building boom which rebuilt and modernized the country's infrastructure, by the 70s the country had descended onto a cold winter of discontent, again good fortune smiled on britain with the discovery of north sea oil and the coming to power of Margaret Thatcher and her labour reforms, mrs. Thatcher was the mother of the single European market and costume union which along with European and asian investment revived and modernised manufacturing like cars and aerospace,
Now all is being discarded,and i cannot see where Britain is going to find another lifesaver like north sea oil or Marshall aid to bail her out of the disaster of brexit |
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The markets like in the brexit vote, before and after went down and like all markets - are linked to politics wethr we like it or not - it goes up and down, up and down, there is always recovery - i think you can even bet on bookies sites now - so best take a bet the a day before the election ;p |
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Rejoining the EU after exiting would be insane.
The whole benefit for the UK was the extra vetos, the ability to control their own law, the ability to exclude romanians when every other EU country took them, to ignore EU human rights if they wanted, and to have the power to veto any and all EU laws.
Re-entry will mean all those perks will be gone. The UK will not be able to reneter the EU without fully accepting free movement of people, without accepting EU human rights etc etc etc.
Northern Ireland was always going to leave the demographics prove that nationalists will heavily outweigh unionists regardless of brexit within our life time.
Scotland could decide to leave purely because of brexit, however this wouldnt be a gigantic loss to the UK in a "Business" way. Not if northern Ireland left too. Any loss of scotland leaving would be saved by northern Ireland leaving.
But scotland could have left anyway, we cant say that they would have stayed forever.
So I guess the question becomes, will the individual countries of the UK recover to positions they formally had.
I think they will all get close, but they will never do better than their best days in the EU. Depending on how it happens the people of England might not care, they could end up with better lives outside of the EU, if this happens for them, then it could have happened inside the EU too, as all the benefits to the UK of leaving are already there while in the EU.
Basically if you dont like UK imigration policy, then it is not the fault of the EU, the UK could have made its own but decided to accept the EU ones. If you think the UK is too soft on former ISIS terrorists, then it is the UKs fault not the EU's as they could have gotten rid of EU human rights at any time.
The reason the UK defaulted to accept all EU laws is pretty clear now, they cant manage Brexit, they cant manage coming up with their own policies, the EU policies probably broadly aligned with their wishes, so just accept them, and if people dont like something with it, blame the EU and if they like stuff on it, take credit.
It allowed them to sit around doing nothing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A bright future ahead for an independent uk ....I wonder if the eu feels the same ......they are in bigger shit than this great country ... im looking forward not back .
"
This is just insane. There is no evidence for this at all. You just believe any old bollocks if you think it justifies your vote to leave.
What about the vast quantities of data and information addressing the disasterous effets of brexit, and the huge negative effect that brexit has already had on the economy, businesses leaving etc etc, and when Combined with not a single piece of vague positive information about the effect of brexit. Makes you think there is a bright future ahead?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A bright future ahead for an independent uk ....I wonder if the eu feels the same ......they are in bigger shit than this great country ... im looking forward not back .
PMSL, you have written some bollocks in the past bit this is up there with your best work you might think it's bollocks but it just might be true. Take the blinkers off"
Let's just nip this one in the bud. It's not true. There is no evidence to suggest it's true.
It's pure insanity to believe the exact opposite of what's going on in reality. |
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The nationalists in Scotland were really "in your face" in the run up to their failed attempt to split the United Kingdom back in 2014 - there are still divides across Scotland to this day - lets hope that any Brexit wounds mend quickly !!! |
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By *ild_oatsMan
over a year ago
the land of saints & sinners |
If Brexit happens and I really hope that it does not....
The clamour for Scottish independence will only increase from the SNP leading to Indyref2. Which will all probably lead to independence majority vote. With Scotland seeking to rejoin the E.U.
The other nations of the UK will probably all try and follow suit with N.l. next followed by Wales. Both will also seek membership of the E.U. as well leaving little England in it own Brexit “paradise”.
Isn’t it funny how Nigel Farage has sought German citizenship for his children and with it the benefits of being an E.U. Citizen. Yet he wants to deny it for the rest of us.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"With this I mean even tho it havent happened and probably never will it have caused a big devide and with the union too. I say it might but it will take a very long time
It will take time. When the older baby boomer generation who voted to leave gradually become extinct we can then rejoin . It will probably take 20-25 years "
Yes it will take a very long time |
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There will still be conflict in society about it in 300 years time. There are places where the war of the roses is still an issue, anger over Culloden, Cromwell's atrocities in Ireland. Whichever way brexit goes, whatever the outcome, there will be near as dammit 50% of the population blaming the other 50% of the population for generations to come. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The nationalists in Scotland were really "in your face" in the run up to their failed attempt to split the United Kingdom back in 2014 - there are still divides across Scotland to this day - lets hope that any Brexit wounds mend quickly !!!"
The effects for brexit will take longer than most of our lifetimes to recover from.
I can't see any reconstruction anytime soon. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"
Why you are so negative baffles me,and why so many are negative baffles me.
Yes there is a lot wrong in this land and in all nations,a lot wrong on this planet but the only way to get things right is to have a positive outlook about changes.
You believe I am negative because you hold to the idea that Great Britain and Northern Ireland is indivisible.
It's not.
There was a time people like you held to the idea that the Empire was indivisible. It wasn't.
In fact, every time a country wanted to end rule from London, people here railed against it, believing no country could stand on its own two feet without the umbilical cord attached to such a superior nation.
Every time you were proved wrong.
The disintegration of Britain's imperial grandeur isn't finished.
You call that negative. I simply see it as inevitable.
The nationalism engulfing England today isn't GB & NI nationalism. It is English nationalism.
"
Sarah we are the least nationalistic race I know to be honest.As for imperial grandeur that is gone and so has the empire which you go opn about it does not exist most know this I thought all did.
All we want is to be independent and control are own destiny I think.
It is you who live in the past not the brexiteers do not be scared to embrace the future.
You where not scared to transform into Sarah and your better for it I an sure you agree so no fear now.
Yes we are all scared of change but we grit are teeth and make it work
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"With this I mean even tho it havent happened and probably never will it have caused a big devide and with the union too. I say it might but it will take a very long time "
Depends on what type of Brexit we are inflicted with in the end really. That will have a bearing on how long it will take to get back even the economic loss we've suffered so far because of Brexit nevermind the potential ongoing economic loss from a actual Brexit.
Whether we ever get to a point where we are better off after Brexit compared to if we'd stayed in is one impossible projection that would need the most complex set of economic forecasts ever which would never get unanimous agreement on anyway.
Even the most ardent leavers must acknowledge by now that economically Brexit or types of Brexit are only damage limitations economically. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Why you are so negative baffles me,and why so many are negative baffles me.
Yes there is a lot wrong in this land and in all nations,a lot wrong on this planet but the only way to get things right is to have a positive outlook about changes.
You believe I am negative because you hold to the idea that Great Britain and Northern Ireland is indivisible.
It's not.
There was a time people like you held to the idea that the Empire was indivisible. It wasn't.
In fact, every time a country wanted to end rule from London, people here railed against it, believing no country could stand on its own two feet without the umbilical cord attached to such a superior nation.
Every time you were proved wrong.
The disintegration of Britain's imperial grandeur isn't finished.
You call that negative. I simply see it as inevitable.
The nationalism engulfing England today isn't GB & NI nationalism. It is English nationalism.
Sarah we are the least nationalistic race I know to be honest.As for imperial grandeur that is gone and so has the empire which you go opn about it does not exist most know this I thought all did.
All we want is to be independent and control are own destiny I think.
It is you who live in the past not the brexiteers do not be scared to embrace the future.
You where not scared to transform into Sarah and your better for it I an sure you agree so no fear now.
Yes we are all scared of change but we grit are teeth and make it work
"
Noble but perhaps misguided sentiment Emma - I think Emma knows her own mind rather more than you do. As for being scared, I would say personally thats its more a case of being rational than anything else. Fools rush in and all that!  |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
Yes we are all scared of change but we grit are teeth and make it work
"
Scared, no.
It is the inevitable logic of taking back control. That is nationalism rather than internationalism.
I do not believe in it right now.
But I might after Jan 31.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Oh no way ...out most of the day though ...nice lunch ..bit of shopping ...and now out for evening of fun ....with my girlfriend ....do u know what that is like ...."
No, I do my shopping online |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Yes, that was what the Leave campaign was all about, wasn't it?
Restoring the full sovereignty of Parliament to decide the direction of the United Kingdom.
Dunno why they are complaining.
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Oh no way ...out most of the day though ...nice lunch ..bit of shopping ...and now out for evening of fun ....with my girlfriend ....do u know what that is like ....
No, I do my shopping online "
Now that made my day....witty, acerbic and aposite....top marks |
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By *hMyGawdCouple
over a year ago
Midlands |
Here's how it'll unfold:
General election - big Tory majority
Leave with Boris' deal
Short term dip in the economy. Maybe.
Long term prosperity as we're able to make our own trade deals and aren't paying EU membership.
Sovereign debt crisis in Italy, Greece and Spain eventually causes an EU collapse when Germany and France grow tired of bailing them out. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
If you think a single market of 65 million consumers has a stronger negotiating hand in trade talks than a single market of 600 million consumers . . . I'll take the rest of your predictions with an equally big pinch of salt.
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By *hMyGawdCouple
over a year ago
Midlands |
No need to be rude. We're going from zero freedom to strike deals, to full freedom to strike deals.
Several of our economic sectors are world class. We have favour in both the US, the commonwealth and emergring economies. So yes, we do have some leverage.
Either way we're not going to sink with the EU if and when Greece/Spain/Italy fails. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No need to be rude. We're going from zero freedom to strike deals, to full freedom to strike deals.
Several of our economic sectors are world class. We have favour in both the US, the commonwealth and emergring economies. So yes, we do have some leverage.
Either way we're not going to sink with the EU if and when Greece/Spain/Italy fails."
If we as a country was able to negotiate good deals then I'd feel optimistic  |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
".
Several of our economic sectors are world class. We have favour in both the US, the commonwealth and emergring economies. So yes, we do have some leverage.
."
What leverage is that?
Certainly not the UK's track record in negotiating anything these past three years.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Here's how it'll unfold:
General election - big Tory majority
Leave with Boris' deal
Short term dip in the economy. Maybe.
Long term prosperity as we're able to make our own trade deals and aren't paying EU membership.
Sovereign debt crisis in Italy, Greece and Spain eventually causes an EU collapse when Germany and France grow tired of bailing them out."
Do you actually believe this. Despite 100% of the information and evidence pointing to a disaster for this countries economy in the short, medium, and long term. Combined with the complete lack of negotiating power compared to what we had with the EU. It's not looking good.
Why do you think the US and Russia put so much money into the leave campaign? It certainly wasn't so they could get worse trade deals, from their perspective. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Here's how it'll unfold:
General election - big Tory majority
Leave with Boris' deal
Short term dip in the economy. Maybe.
Long term prosperity as we're able to make our own trade deals and aren't paying EU membership.
Sovereign debt crisis in Italy, Greece and Spain eventually causes an EU collapse when Germany and France grow tired of bailing them out.
Do you actually believe this. Despite 100% of the information and evidence pointing to a disaster for this countries economy in the short, medium, and long term. Combined with the complete lack of negotiating power compared to what we had with the EU. It's not looking good.
Why do you think the US and Russia put so much money into the leave campaign? It certainly wasn't so they could get worse trade deals, from their perspective."
True  |
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By *hMyGawdCouple
over a year ago
Midlands |
Even if there is economic damage, which is by no means certain... Brexit is worthwhile just to stick a middle finger up to all the lefties who voted Remain. It's for all the jibes against Trump. It's for blaming the Tories for everything. It's for all the man-hating, politically correct, Guardian reading muppets who voted Remain.
THAT is why we voted Leave. Simply because the people doing the most damage to this country were pushing Remain.
Wasn't just us either, look up the Ashcroft polls... it shows a strong correlation on other Leave voters feelings on these topics.
By the way - we understand not all Remain voters are bad people |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Even if there is economic damage, which is by no means certain... Brexit is worthwhile just to stick a middle finger up to all the lefties who voted Remain. It's for all the jibes against Trump. It's for blaming the Tories for everything. It's for all the man-hating, politically correct, Guardian reading muppets who voted Remain.
THAT is why we voted Leave. Simply because the people doing the most damage to this country were pushing Remain.
Wasn't just us either, look up the Ashcroft polls... it shows a strong correlation on other Leave voters feelings on these topics.
By the way - we understand not all Remain voters are bad people "
What a phenomenally ridiculous point of view - I think you will find there are plenty of people who are not lefties who have enough nous to see that trump is no friend of ours, let alone all the other nonsense you spout. If you think your protest vote will only hurt the man hating lefties and wont hurt the less able then maybe you should try and get a bit of perspective because really I doubt that you are suffering personally in any way from being in the EU. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Even if there is economic damage, which is by no means certain... Brexit is worthwhile just to stick a middle finger up to all the lefties who voted Remain. It's for all the jibes against Trump. It's for blaming the Tories for everything. It's for all the man-hating, politically correct, Guardian reading muppets who voted Remain.
THAT is why we voted Leave. Simply because the people doing the most damage to this country were pushing Remain.
Wasn't just us either, look up the Ashcroft polls... it shows a strong correlation on other Leave voters feelings on these topics.
By the way - we understand not all Remain voters are bad people "
Well you sound like one of life's winners!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face
"
I know, I think it gets most fucking stupid ludicrous post on here ever and that's saying something |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face
I know, I think it gets most fucking stupid ludicrous post on here ever and that's saying something "
I don’t know dude over the years there has been some classics.
I do enjoy the rightists having a meltdown over the leftists..,
But yeah this can go in the hall of fame... |
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