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Project Fear
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By *uxinteriorMan
over a year ago
south west , continental |
"To be fair I think all the party’s try it !"
Undoubtedly all political parties are equally guilty of this, who wouldn't try and persuade potential voters for their cross in the box?!
Everyone has their own slant on things, Everyone has their own truths, so they will naturally resonate toward the political bullshit that captivates them most. |
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"To be fair I think all the party’s try it !
Undoubtedly all political parties are equally guilty of this, who wouldn't try and persuade potential voters for their cross in the box?!
Everyone has their own slant on things, Everyone has their own truths, so they will naturally resonate toward the political bullshit that captivates them most. "
I don't think that this is done in anything like the same way by other parties.
Tory campaigns are almost purely negative.
More so this time than ever. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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This election is just stupid...
The serving Government normally points to their successes while they've been in office while campaigning for re-election but all I've heard is how the Tories plan to fix everything that they have been in charge over for the last 9 years.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This election is just stupid...
The serving Government normally points to their successes while they've been in office while campaigning for re-election but all I've heard is how the Tories plan to fix everything that they have been in charge over for the last 9 years.
"
I’m of the opinion all of these promises are irresponsible.The economic realities are being ignored.
Never before will so many be disappointed and dissatisfied with the economic realities of Brexit and the coming storm.
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"This election is just stupid...
The serving Government normally points to their successes while they've been in office while campaigning for re-election but all I've heard is how the Tories plan to fix everything that they have been in charge over for the last 9 years.
I’m of the opinion all of these promises are irresponsible.The economic realities are being ignored.
Never before will so many be disappointed and dissatisfied with the economic realities of Brexit and the coming storm.
"
That's a problem for another day.
All that's important is the news cycle. The next tweet, the next sound bite. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"This election is just stupid...
"
History shows that voters do not react kindly to parties that call snap elections.
We're being asked for a third time in four years. It sums up how dysfunctional politics has become when the politicians keep coming back asking for a different answer to the one they got before.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Watching James Cleverly on QT last night was a textbook example of a politician saying something again and again in a deep resonant impressively manly way until you could see the audience in Brighton almost falling for the utter tripe he was pushing. Depressing viewing to say the least. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This election is just stupid...
The serving Government normally points to their successes while they've been in office while campaigning for re-election but all I've heard is how the Tories plan to fix everything that they have been in charge over for the last 9 years.
I’m of the opinion all of these promises are irresponsible.The economic realities are being ignored.
Never before will so many be disappointed and dissatisfied with the economic realities of Brexit and the coming storm.
"
I think it's going to take Brexit happening for many to realise what we had was actually quite good. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This election is just stupid...
The serving Government normally points to their successes while they've been in office while campaigning for re-election but all I've heard is how the Tories plan to fix everything that they have been in charge over for the last 9 years.
I’m of the opinion all of these promises are irresponsible.The economic realities are being ignored.
Never before will so many be disappointed and dissatisfied with the economic realities of Brexit and the coming storm.
I think it's going to take Brexit happening for many to realise what we had was actually quite good. "
I agree.I think the majority only change direction when they are at the precipice feet on the edge staring into the abyss..
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Watching James Cleverly on QT last night was a textbook example of a politician saying something again and again in a deep resonant impressively manly way until you could see the audience in Brighton almost falling for the utter tripe he was pushing. Depressing viewing to say the least."
Interviewers should warn political interviewees, that failure to answer a straight "yes" or "no" question will result in the interview being terminated there and then!
I've seen politicians of all parties asked such questions this week, some five times, and all have just trotted out the party mantra.
Wasting my time will not endear themselves to me, and I suspect that many are the same. |
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Watching James Cleverly on QT last night was a textbook example of a politician saying something again and again in a deep resonant impressively manly way until you could see the audience in Brighton almost falling for the utter tripe he was pushing. Depressing viewing to say the least.
Interviewers should warn political interviewees, that failure to answer a straight "yes" or "no" question will result in the interview being terminated there and then!
I've seen politicians of all parties asked such questions this week, some five times, and all have just trotted out the party mantra.
Wasting my time will not endear themselves to me, and I suspect that many are the same. "
I agree, but there are also many who will lap it up.
It depends very much in the preparation of the interviewer too.
Michael Gove denied saying something several times on Today on Radio 4 yesterday. (That's a confusing sentence!). The interviewer got steadily more exasperated and concluded by stating that he had the transcript in front of him from the previous interview.
That's the point we've got to though. Bare faced lying. Full Trump. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Priti Patel refused to say if she wanted immigration to go up down .She was asked the same question a dozen times..
Surely conservatives want it to go down??  |
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Priti Patel refused to say if she wanted immigration to go up down .She was asked the same question a dozen times..
Surely conservatives want it to go down?? "
They don't want immigrants with the same rights as us... |
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"That's what the Conservative party does every single election isn't it?Yes and labour make promises it is impossible to keep"
Are you saying that the Conservatives are not doing that?
How much are they planning to spend? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"That's what the Conservative party does every single election isn't it?
Yes and labour make promises it is impossible to keep"
Boris lies to the faces of the public and they know it and they still vote for him...
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"Priti Patel refused to say if she wanted immigration to go up down .She was asked the same question a dozen times..
Surely conservatives want it to go down?? "
No. Conservative voters, and quite a few Labour voters too, want it to go down but, with an ageing population, most politicians know it's actually going to have to rise. Hence both parties trying to sound tough on immigration but not actually giving any clear answers when pressed on the issue. Hence Pritti Patel not giving a straight answer and Rebecca Long-Baily getting tied in knots the other day as to whether free movement would end, stay the same or be extended under a Labour Party BREXIT.
And what does extending 'free movement' actually mean anyway?
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
Distraction techniques. The Daily Mash summary. Parody is often more succinct:
Man about to be shafted by Tories somehow worried about Marxism
8th May 2017
A MAN who is likely to suffer under a Tory government is deeply concerned about Labour politicians being Marxist.
Roy Hobbs was alarmed by media claims that Labour is a ‘hotbed of Marxism’, despite there being actual Tory policies that will screw him over in real life.
Hobbs said: “I know things keep getting more expensive and my daughter has to pay crippling tuition fees, but I’m seriously worried about a Marxist revolution.
“With all these Brexit problems and the NHS in crisis the last thing we need is the working class all getting into Das Kapital and seizing the means of production by force.”
He added: “As a family we’ve noticed it’s getting harder to make ends meet, but finding an affordable care home for my wife’s mother is a doddle compared to working on a collective farm.”
Daughter Lauren Hobbs said: “Dad doesn’t seem to realise the chances of him waiting ages for a vital operation are somewhat higher than being put in a gulag.” |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Priti Patel refused to say if she wanted immigration to go up down .She was asked the same question a dozen times..
Surely conservatives want it to go down?? "
The answer could be complicated. Given the needs of UK after brexit, jobs based immigration has to increase. But the refugee intake could be possibly reduced. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Regarding fear, it is true in every country. Right wing parties base their strategy on fear and left wing parties base their strategy on fake promises about equality and justice. Both sides don't give a fuck about either. They just want to come to power and earn money. |
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Priti Patel refused to say if she wanted immigration to go up down .She was asked the same question a dozen times..
Surely conservatives want it to go down??
The answer could be complicated. Given the needs of UK after brexit, jobs based immigration has to increase. But the refugee intake could be possibly reduced."
What if the refugees are highly skilled? 
You think that doctors and engineers don't flee conflict? |
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Regarding fear, it is true in every country. Right wing parties base their strategy on fear and left wing parties base their strategy on fake promises about equality and justice. Both sides don't give a fuck about either. They just want to come to power and earn money."
I'm not sure that's true.
There certainly was a time when both sides had more or less the same goal of improving life for most people. They had a different approach bit most acknowledged that was the aim.
In the latest iteration the right appears more nakedly bidding for power by promising everything and blaming it on everyone who isn't the same as "us". However, the route to this is through making the wealthy better off and deregulating everything in the name of "freedom".
The left seem to have the intention of trying to improve the lot of most people but this time blaming companies and the wealthy for everything. Their solution is overregulation.
The answer, as it has always been, is somewhere in the middle. That requires pragmatism and compromise, neither of which is very fashionable as people use words like "betrayal" and "weakness"  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Priti Patel refused to say if she wanted immigration to go up down .She was asked the same question a dozen times..
Surely conservatives want it to go down??
The answer could be complicated. Given the needs of UK after brexit, jobs based immigration has to increase. But the refugee intake could be possibly reduced.
What if the refugees are highly skilled?
You think that doctors and engineers don't flee conflict?"
Ha ha. They do. But when it comes to jobs based immigration, it is a win-win for them. They get exactly what they want. These people are on visa for limited period and can be easily kicked out when they are not necessary. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Regarding fear, it is true in every country. Right wing parties base their strategy on fear and left wing parties base their strategy on fake promises about equality and justice. Both sides don't give a fuck about either. They just want to come to power and earn money."
If that's true.
Is it better to have the party who openly has contempt for the people. Or the party who has fake promises about equality and justice?
To be fair. Talking global politics for a second. I don't think all the promises are fake, from either side. I think the system is set up to stop the leaders making too much change. The states is a good example. Obama promised loads of good stuff. Delivered on very little. Trump promised lots of terrible stuff, and delivered on very little. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Regarding fear, it is true in every country. Right wing parties base their strategy on fear and left wing parties base their strategy on fake promises about equality and justice. Both sides don't give a fuck about either. They just want to come to power and earn money.
If that's true.
Is it better to have the party who openly has contempt for the people. Or the party who has fake promises about equality and justice?
To be fair. Talking global politics for a second. I don't think all the promises are fake, from either side. I think the system is set up to stop the leaders making too much change. The states is a good example. Obama promised loads of good stuff. Delivered on very little. Trump promised lots of terrible stuff, and delivered on very little."
True to an extent. It is close to impossible to make drastic changes on big societies we have now. My point is that politicians know they can't really fulfill their promises when they make them. Take the case of Elizabeth Warren. She is promising that she will split all big tech companies. Do you really think she is going to fulfill it? US economy depends a lot on these companies. Everything is way too mangled that no one can predict what would happen if she actually breaks these companies.
The best we could hope for, is that they would at least fulfill smaller promises like more budget for X, better infrastructure improvements etc. |
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Priti Patel refused to say if she wanted immigration to go up down .She was asked the same question a dozen times..
Surely conservatives want it to go down??
The answer could be complicated. Given the needs of UK after brexit, jobs based immigration has to increase. But the refugee intake could be possibly reduced.
What if the refugees are highly skilled?
You think that doctors and engineers don't flee conflict?
Ha ha. They do. But when it comes to jobs based immigration, it is a win-win for them. They get exactly what they want. These people are on visa for limited period and can be easily kicked out when they are not necessary. "
You mean employers getting what they want?
Workers with weak employment rights who lose their recidency if they lose their job and have limited scope to look for other positions and make salary demands? They also feel obliged to bend to unreasonable demands.
It does end up in the curious situation where a company could be better off filling its highly skilled jobs with foreigners because they could work them harder and pay them less and not have to train anyone. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Regarding fear, it is true in every country. Right wing parties base their strategy on fear and left wing parties base their strategy on fake promises about equality and justice. Both sides don't give a fuck about either. They just want to come to power and earn money.
I'm not sure that's true.
There certainly was a time when both sides had more or less the same goal of improving life for most people. They had a different approach bit most acknowledged that was the aim.
In the latest iteration the right appears more nakedly bidding for power by promising everything and blaming it on everyone who isn't the same as "us". However, the route to this is through making the wealthy better off and deregulating everything in the name of "freedom".
The left seem to have the intention of trying to improve the lot of most people but this time blaming companies and the wealthy for everything. Their solution is overregulation.
The answer, as it has always been, is somewhere in the middle. That requires pragmatism and compromise, neither of which is very fashionable as people use words like "betrayal" and "weakness" "
Yes. It is a matter of comprise in the end. I think it is cyclic. I see right wing ideology growing around the world recently. Maybe it will last for a decade before left wing coming back to power. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Regarding fear, it is true in every country. Right wing parties base their strategy on fear and left wing parties base their strategy on fake promises about equality and justice. Both sides don't give a fuck about either. They just want to come to power and earn money.
If that's true.
Is it better to have the party who openly has contempt for the people. Or the party who has fake promises about equality and justice?
To be fair. Talking global politics for a second. I don't think all the promises are fake, from either side. I think the system is set up to stop the leaders making too much change. The states is a good example. Obama promised loads of good stuff. Delivered on very little. Trump promised lots of terrible stuff, and delivered on very little.
True to an extent. It is close to impossible to make drastic changes on big societies we have now. My point is that politicians know they can't really fulfill their promises when they make them. Take the case of Elizabeth Warren. She is promising that she will split all big tech companies. Do you really think she is going to fulfill it? US economy depends a lot on these companies. Everything is way too mangled that no one can predict what would happen if she actually breaks these companies.
The best we could hope for, is that they would at least fulfill smaller promises like more budget for X, better infrastructure improvements etc."
I agree.
I think to get anything done they have to make so many compromises and water down their policies so much that they become worthless.
I would rather see realistic promises too. But those dont seem to sway voters these days.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Priti Patel refused to say if she wanted immigration to go up down .She was asked the same question a dozen times..
Surely conservatives want it to go down??
The answer could be complicated. Given the needs of UK after brexit, jobs based immigration has to increase. But the refugee intake could be possibly reduced.
What if the refugees are highly skilled?
You think that doctors and engineers don't flee conflict?
Ha ha. They do. But when it comes to jobs based immigration, it is a win-win for them. They get exactly what they want. These people are on visa for limited period and can be easily kicked out when they are not necessary.
You mean employers getting what they want?
Workers with weak employment rights who lose their recidency if they lose their job and have limited scope to look for other positions and make salary demands? They also feel obliged to bend to unreasonable demands.
It does end up in the curious situation where a company could be better off filling its highly skilled jobs with foreigners because they could work them harder and pay them less and not have to train anyone."
Yes. Employers get what they want. I am not saying that's the right thing to do. But that's how a capitalism driven world works. Then they will try to reach a compromise by setting rules on minimum wage for skilled immigrants. It is already a matter of debate in the US. Trump promised to increase the minimum salary for skilled immigrants that will force companies to hire local talent. Of course he didn't do it because the companies did not like the idea. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Regarding fear, it is true in every country. Right wing parties base their strategy on fear and left wing parties base their strategy on fake promises about equality and justice. Both sides don't give a fuck about either. They just want to come to power and earn money.
If that's true.
Is it better to have the party who openly has contempt for the people. Or the party who has fake promises about equality and justice?
To be fair. Talking global politics for a second. I don't think all the promises are fake, from either side. I think the system is set up to stop the leaders making too much change. The states is a good example. Obama promised loads of good stuff. Delivered on very little. Trump promised lots of terrible stuff, and delivered on very little.
True to an extent. It is close to impossible to make drastic changes on big societies we have now. My point is that politicians know they can't really fulfill their promises when they make them. Take the case of Elizabeth Warren. She is promising that she will split all big tech companies. Do you really think she is going to fulfill it? US economy depends a lot on these companies. Everything is way too mangled that no one can predict what would happen if she actually breaks these companies.
The best we could hope for, is that they would at least fulfill smaller promises like more budget for X, better infrastructure improvements etc.
I agree.
I think to get anything done they have to make so many compromises and water down their policies so much that they become worthless.
I would rather see realistic promises too. But those dont seem to sway voters these days.
"
You pointed out the problem right there. Voters seem to believe anything that is super dramatic and cast their votes based on that. I am not sure about UK. But back home in India, I have seen many sensible candidates making sensible promises on what the people actually need. But that party didn't even manage to get a decent percentage votes. Most people from that party gave up on politics and entered social service to educate people about law, economy etc. so that they will start making an informed decision later at some point of time  |
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Regarding fear, it is true in every country. Right wing parties base their strategy on fear and left wing parties base their strategy on fake promises about equality and justice. Both sides don't give a fuck about either. They just want to come to power and earn money.
I'm not sure that's true.
There certainly was a time when both sides had more or less the same goal of improving life for most people. They had a different approach bit most acknowledged that was the aim.
In the latest iteration the right appears more nakedly bidding for power by promising everything and blaming it on everyone who isn't the same as "us". However, the route to this is through making the wealthy better off and deregulating everything in the name of "freedom".
The left seem to have the intention of trying to improve the lot of most people but this time blaming companies and the wealthy for everything. Their solution is overregulation.
The answer, as it has always been, is somewhere in the middle. That requires pragmatism and compromise, neither of which is very fashionable as people use words like "betrayal" and "weakness"
Yes. It is a matter of comprise in the end. I think it is cyclic. I see right wing ideology growing around the world recently. Maybe it will last for a decade before left wing coming back to power."
The problem is that right wing governments tend to dismantle the democratic process. Far more than the left which is idealogically wedded to it through the bureaucratic structures that support it, but at its communist extreme the outcome is the same.
Look at Turkey and Hungary and Poland and even the US.
The press is cowed or discredited, the judiciary is state controlled, government agencies lose their ability to disagree with policy.
All of this is enthusiastically supported by the population.
At a certain point those in power cannot be removed. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Regarding fear, it is true in every country. Right wing parties base their strategy on fear and left wing parties base their strategy on fake promises about equality and justice. Both sides don't give a fuck about either. They just want to come to power and earn money.
I'm not sure that's true.
There certainly was a time when both sides had more or less the same goal of improving life for most people. They had a different approach bit most acknowledged that was the aim.
In the latest iteration the right appears more nakedly bidding for power by promising everything and blaming it on everyone who isn't the same as "us". However, the route to this is through making the wealthy better off and deregulating everything in the name of "freedom".
The left seem to have the intention of trying to improve the lot of most people but this time blaming companies and the wealthy for everything. Their solution is overregulation.
The answer, as it has always been, is somewhere in the middle. That requires pragmatism and compromise, neither of which is very fashionable as people use words like "betrayal" and "weakness"
Yes. It is a matter of comprise in the end. I think it is cyclic. I see right wing ideology growing around the world recently. Maybe it will last for a decade before left wing coming back to power.
The problem is that right wing governments tend to dismantle the democratic process. Far more than the left which is idealogically wedded to it through the bureaucratic structures that support it, but at its communist extreme the outcome is the same.
Look at Turkey and Hungary and Poland and even the US.
The press is cowed or discredited, the judiciary is state controlled, government agencies lose their ability to disagree with policy.
All of this is enthusiastically supported by the population.
At a certain point those in power cannot be removed."
That's unfortunately true 
Some parties in some countries go as far as rigging the devices used for elections. The left wing has been reasonable in this aspect. Except the communist parties, I haven't seen any of these parties trying to break the democratic structure to stay in power forever  |
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
News Thump has an expert summary on this topic:
"Tories who dismissed ‘Project Fear’ now trying to terrify you about Corbyn’s dystopian nightmare
December 9, 2019
Written by Dan Sweryt
The Tories who laughed off the concerns of ‘Project Fear’ in the 2016 EU Referendum are now happy to attempt terrifying a nation with visions of a nightmare dystopian future that Jeremy Corbyn will apparently bring.
Simon Williams, said, “Telling people what might happen is just a desperate political tactic based on trying to scare people into voting a particular way, usually relying on biased economists that you simply can’t trust.
“That said, if you vote for Jeremy Corbyn, antisemitic communist robot cyborgs will probably kill you and your children, even if you’re not Jewish.
“If that doesn’t happen – but it almost certainly, definitely will – then all those trees Labour plant will suffocate you as they breathe oxygen during the night. Oh, didn’t anyone tell you THAT?!
“Or, poor people will rob and kill you, because they no longer have to waste their time queuing at food banks. Is that what you want? Fully fed people taken out of poverty, just so they now have time to rob and murder you?
“Anyway, all the situations we’ve painted above will definitely probably maybe happen, if Labour are voted in on Thursday.
“But make sure you don’t take in those ‘Project Fear’ – type lies that other parties propagate.”
“I voted Tory for a kinder, fairer society for all”, said no-one, ever – get the T-shirt! |
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It's always the standard right wing approach, including in the referendum.
It's the easiest way to get people hooked, beyond common sense and intellect, ad played well since Nazi Germany onwards. Many seem happiest if they have their minds hijacked, as it gives them free reign to hate others, not wasting energy having to think about things too much. |
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