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How would you feel if your Brexit Referendum vote hadn’t Counted ?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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As you all know I’m passionate about PR . I said to someone on here my vote doesn’t count where I live unless you vote labour .
It got me thinking imagine if the referendum had been on a conscience basis first past the post !
How would people have fealt if they were a remainer or leaver in an area dominated by the other side ? |
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The referendum was run on a first past the post system, just on a national bases, and, as the side I voted for lost, my vote has been effectively ignored and I might just as well have stayed at home.
PR has its advantages but also its disadvantages especially if the whole country is treated as one massive PR constituency. For example regional parties such as SDLP, DUP, SNP, Pliad etc would find it more difficult to get seats as would independents. The only way around that problem is to divide the country up into smaller constituencies, however the smaller the constituency the more it mirrors FPTP (North East Euro constituency returns 3 MEPs. If you didn't vote BREXIT
Party or Labour there you may as well have not voted).
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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All votes "count" in any election or referendum as all votes are counted and published which gives a result of how people think to that scenario.
Just because the vote didn't go your way doesn't mean it didn't count in my view. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
All votes count only within the boundary of the constituency.
Let's say a Conservative or Labour candidate wins the constituency with 35% share of the vote.
That person is sent to Westminster to take part in the next vote - one where the electorate is only 650.
The other 65% of votes do not count in the vote to form a government.
They have been discarded at the boundary of the constituency, basically.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The referendum was run on a first past the post system, just on a national bases, and, as the side I voted for lost, my vote has been effectively ignored and I might just as well have stayed at home.
PR has its advantages but also its disadvantages especially if the whole country is treated as one massive PR constituency. For example regional parties such as SDLP, DUP, SNP, Pliad etc would find it more difficult to get seats as would independents. The only way around that problem is to divide the country up into smaller constituencies, however the smaller the constituency the more it mirrors FPTP (North East Euro constituency returns 3 MEPs. If you didn't vote BREXIT
Party or Labour there you may as well have not voted).
"
The SNP and DUP May do better as people living in the whole of the U.K. could vote for them !
I’d vote SNP to help get English Independance ! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"All votes count only within the boundary of the constituency.
Let's say a Conservative or Labour candidate wins the constituency with 35% share of the vote.
That person is sent to Westminster to take part in the next vote - one where the electorate is only 650.
The other 65% of votes do not count in the vote to form a government.
They have been discarded at the boundary of the constituency, basically.
"
Correct ! Think you should join me and Bobs lefty Righty Party !
I’m the Right of course ! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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You could argue the remain votes didn't count, as leavers were voting on misinformation.
We're now in a situation where we're actually leaving the EU based on a load of lies and misinformation. |
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"You could argue the remain votes didn't count, as leavers were voting on misinformation.
We're now in a situation where we're actually leaving the EU based on a load of lies and misinformation."
you haven’t stopped argueing that for ages mate no ones listening lol |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"You could argue the remain votes didn't count, as leavers were voting on misinformation.
"
To be fair, every single time we're asked to vote we have to sift our way through the misinformation, the mistruths and the downright deceptions. The referendum was no different.
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"You could argue the remain votes didn't count, as leavers were voting on misinformation.
We're now in a situation where we're actually leaving the EU based on a load of lies and misinformation.you haven’t stopped argueing that for ages mate no ones listening lol"
I'm listening.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You could argue the remain votes didn't count, as leavers were voting on misinformation.
We're now in a situation where we're actually leaving the EU based on a load of lies and misinformation.you haven’t stopped argueing that for ages mate no ones listening lol
I'm listening.
"
So am I. It is only the blinkered , brain washed leave voter who aren’t |
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"The referendum was run on a first past the post system, just on a national bases, and, as the side I voted for lost, my vote has been effectively ignored and I might just as well have stayed at home.
PR has its advantages but also its disadvantages especially if the whole country is treated as one massive PR constituency. For example regional parties such as SDLP, DUP, SNP, Pliad etc would find it more difficult to get seats as would independents. The only way around that problem is to divide the country up into smaller constituencies, however the smaller the constituency the more it mirrors FPTP (North East Euro constituency returns 3 MEPs. If you didn't vote BREXIT
Party or Labour there you may as well have not voted).
"
A country the size of Britain would probably not be a single constituency.
The Electoral Reform Society webpage suggests breaking down the UK into 26 constituencies each with 25 representatives.
We could copy the fiendishly complex German system,
Germans elect their members of parliament with two votes. The first vote is for a direct candidate, who ought to receive a plurality vote in their electoral district. The second vote is used to elect a party list in each state as established by its respective party caucus. The Bundestag comprises seats representing each electoral district, with the remainder of seats being allocated to maintain proportionality based on the second vote. Common practice is that direct candidates are also placed on the electoral lists at higher rankings as a fall-back if they do not win their districts.
I won’t go on about 1st vote, 2nd vote, 5% thresholds and the 3 constituency rule. You can all look it up yourselves  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You could argue the remain votes didn't count, as leavers were voting on misinformation.
We're now in a situation where we're actually leaving the EU based on a load of lies and misinformation.you haven’t stopped argueing that for ages mate no ones listening lol"
If only leavers were paying attention during the referendum eh!
Then we wouldn't be in this clusterfuck. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
I won’t go on about 1st vote, 2nd vote, 5% thresholds and the 3 constituency rule. You can all look it up yourselves "
It sounds very similar to the system used in elections to the Scottish Parliament.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The referendum vote didn't count. The result was advisory.
I had a leaflet put through my door saying the government will do whatever the majority voted.
How is that advisory? "
Because the act of parliament that covered the referendum trumps a leaflet pushed through your door. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The referendum vote didn't count. The result was advisory.
I had a leaflet put through my door saying the government will do whatever the majority voted.
How is that advisory? "
What does the majority want?
A deal? Canada+, Norway something else? No deal?
I'd like a referendum on having to pay no tax but having exactly the same level of government spending.
Could we "get it done"? |
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By *lex46TV/TS
over a year ago
Near Wells |
"The referendum vote didn't count. The result was advisory.
I had a leaflet put through my door saying the government will do whatever the majority voted.
How is that advisory?
Because the act of parliament that covered the referendum trumps a leaflet pushed through your door."
So why bother having a referendum in the first place if no one's going to act on it? |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"The referendum vote didn't count. The result was advisory.
I had a leaflet put through my door saying the government will do whatever the majority voted.
How is that advisory?
Because the act of parliament that covered the referendum trumps a leaflet pushed through your door.
So why bother having a referendum in the first place if no one's going to act on it? "
logic is wasted in here.  |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The referendum vote didn't count. The result was advisory.
I had a leaflet put through my door saying the government will do whatever the majority voted.
How is that advisory?
Because the act of parliament that covered the referendum trumps a leaflet pushed through your door.
So why bother having a referendum in the first place if no one's going to act on it? "
It's a big opinion poll. It indicates that at that time there was a concern. For the years before nobody had been particularly bothered incidentally.
However, it was ,and is a fairly even split. So the question is to find out exactly what people like or dislike and see how to fix it.
If that means leaving fine, but identify why and under what circumstances.
That's what it was supposed to be for.
In reality it was for the Conservative party to try to stop UKIP stealing its votes. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Yes, the Conservative Party had a disease and decided to infect the whole country.
We've been living with the consequences ever since, and the fuckers responsible for it disappeared faster than snow off a dyke in July.
But let's not think about that.
Oh look, Mr Corbyn, what a wanker.
Some people keep falling for it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You could argue the remain votes didn't count, as leavers were voting on misinformation.
We're now in a situation where we're actually leaving the EU based on a load of lies and misinformation."
That makes it even then....If you look at the equivalent load of lies and misinformation we were given when they held the first referendum to join the 'Common Market' as it was then. |
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"The referendum vote didn't count. The result was advisory.
I had a leaflet put through my door saying the government will do whatever the majority voted.
How is that advisory?
Because the act of parliament that covered the referendum trumps a leaflet pushed through your door.
So why bother having a referendum in the first place if no one's going to act on it?
It's a big opinion poll. It indicates that at that time there was a concern. For the years before nobody had been particularly bothered incidentally.
However, it was ,and is a fairly even split. So the question is to find out exactly what people like or dislike and see how to fix it.
If that means leaving fine, but identify why and under what circumstances.
That's what it was supposed to be for.
In reality it was for the Conservative party to try to stop UKIP stealing its votes."
Well I guess from that prospective it's been quite a successful strategy.  |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"You could argue the remain votes didn't count, as leavers were voting on misinformation.
We're now in a situation where we're actually leaving the EU based on a load of lies and misinformation.
That makes it even then....If you look at the equivalent load of lies and misinformation we were given when they held the first referendum to join the 'Common Market' as it was then."
This again! Repetition of a repetition of a repetition.
I'm tired to writing it.
We joined under the Treaty of Rome.
ARTICLE 2
"The Community shall have as its task, by establishing a common market and
progressively approximating the economic policies of Member States, to promote
throughout the Community a harmonious development of economic activities, a
continuous and balanced expansion, an increase in stability, an accelerated raising of the
standard of living and closer relations between the States belonging to it."
It was never sold as economic. Those who fought in the WWII were more drawn to the integration and maintenance of peace than even the economic arguments. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Pissed off like the 17 odd million who,s vote still hasnt counted after 3 years. "
Like the 1,661,191 (62%) of Scottish citizens who voted to stay in the EU but are being pulled out against their will I guess  |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Pissed off like the 17 odd million who,s vote still hasnt counted after 3 years.
Like the 1,661,191 (62%) of Scottish citizens who voted to stay in the EU but are being pulled out against their will I guess "
no not quiet as it was a uk referendum. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Pissed off like the 17 odd million who,s vote still hasnt counted after 3 years.
Like the 1,661,191 (62%) of Scottish citizens who voted to stay in the EU but are being pulled out against their will I guess no not quiet as it was a uk referendum."
Scotland is still a seperate country not a region It has every right to choose considering during the Indy ref we were told if you stay in the uk well guarantee your place in the EU and oh look at that! |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Pissed off like the 17 odd million who,s vote still hasnt counted after 3 years.
Like the 1,661,191 (62%) of Scottish citizens who voted to stay in the EU but are being pulled out against their will I guess "
62% is taken from the votes cast.
62% is certainly not all of the citizens in Scotland, nor is it even 62% of the eligible Scottish vote. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Pissed off like the 17 odd million who,s vote still hasnt counted after 3 years.
Like the 1,661,191 (62%) of Scottish citizens who voted to stay in the EU but are being pulled out against their will I guess
62% is taken from the votes cast.
62% is certainly not all of the citizens in Scotland, nor is it even 62% of the eligible Scottish vote. "
It looks like even if 100% of the people Scotland voted and voted to stay in the EU We’d still be dragged out against our will |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Pissed off like the 17 odd million who,s vote still hasnt counted after 3 years. "
It counted. It's been attempted.
Which version of Brexit?
Define. Reach a consensus.
Negotiate it.
...or does "Brexit mean Brexit"? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You could argue the remain votes didn't count, as leavers were voting on misinformation.
We're now in a situation where we're actually leaving the EU based on a load of lies and misinformation.
That makes it even then....If you look at the equivalent load of lies and misinformation we were given when they held the first referendum to join the 'Common Market' as it was then.
This again! Repetition of a repetition of a repetition.
I'm tired to writing it.
We joined under the Treaty of Rome.
ARTICLE 2
"The Community shall have as its task, by establishing a common market and
progressively approximating the economic policies of Member States, to promote
throughout the Community a harmonious development of economic activities, a
continuous and balanced expansion, an increase in stability, an accelerated raising of the
standard of living and closer relations between the States belonging to it."
It was never sold as economic. Those who fought in the WWII were more drawn to the integration and maintenance of peace than even the economic arguments."
Who's talking about the actual treaty? Im talking about the lies and misinformation sold to us in the newspapers and by the Tory government of the time (In actual fact at this point it was Labour who were staunchly eurosceptic with Tony Benn and a young Jeremy Corbyn leading the charge against Europe). Newspapers like The Sun, The Daily Mail and The Daily Express all campaigned to keep Britain in Europe. Every national newspaper backed a vote to stay in, I believe it was only The Morning Star who opposed it.
Try speaking to the people who voted in the 1975 referendum and ask what they were told or read in the papers instead of simply quoting the Treaty of Rome, you'll find that they were mainly sold the idea of an economic community and I agree an end to wars in Europe. But they weren't told it was going to be a superstate of over 27 countries and that Britain would lose its rights to be an independent country governing itself and making its own laws and become subject to the superstate and its court of justice...and before we get the 'we are still able to govern and make our own laws' all those rights were signed away by John Major when he signed the Mastricht Treaty where and when the European Economic Community became simply the European Community to reflect its expanded controls over things other than the economic community.
The majority of those 1975 voters who voted for the EEC now say if they had known what they were truly voting for they would have said no. The only repetitions I'm fed up of are those same ones that people keep repeating about how the leave voters dont know what we voted for or how stupid we are. The fact is in a democracy majority rules and a referendum was held where the majority of people voted to leave.
Deal with it! |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"You could argue the remain votes didn't count, as leavers were voting on misinformation.
We're now in a situation where we're actually leaving the EU based on a load of lies and misinformation.
That makes it even then....If you look at the equivalent load of lies and misinformation we were given when they held the first referendum to join the 'Common Market' as it was then.
This again! Repetition of a repetition of a repetition.
I'm tired to writing it.
We joined under the Treaty of Rome.
ARTICLE 2
"The Community shall have as its task, by establishing a common market and
progressively approximating the economic policies of Member States, to promote
throughout the Community a harmonious development of economic activities, a
continuous and balanced expansion, an increase in stability, an accelerated raising of the
standard of living and closer relations between the States belonging to it."
It was never sold as economic. Those who fought in the WWII were more drawn to the integration and maintenance of peace than even the economic arguments.
Who's talking about the actual treaty? Im talking about the lies and misinformation sold to us in the newspapers and by the Tory government of the time (In actual fact at this point it was Labour who were staunchly eurosceptic with Tony Benn and a young Jeremy Corbyn leading the charge against Europe). Newspapers like The Sun, The Daily Mail and The Daily Express all campaigned to keep Britain in Europe. Every national newspaper backed a vote to stay in, I believe it was only The Morning Star who opposed it.
Try speaking to the people who voted in the 1975 referendum and ask what they were told or read in the papers instead of simply quoting the Treaty of Rome, you'll find that they were mainly sold the idea of an economic community and I agree an end to wars in Europe. But they weren't told it was going to be a superstate of over 27 countries and that Britain would lose its rights to be an independent country governing itself and making its own laws and become subject to the superstate and its court of justice...and before we get the 'we are still able to govern and make our own laws' all those rights were signed away by John Major when he signed the Mastricht Treaty where and when the European Economic Community became simply the European Community to reflect its expanded controls over things other than the economic community.
The majority of those 1975 voters who voted for the EEC now say if they had known what they were truly voting for they would have said no. The only repetitions I'm fed up of are those same ones that people keep repeating about how the leave voters dont know what we voted for or how stupid we are. The fact is in a democracy majority rules and a referendum was held where the majority of people voted to leave.
Deal with it! "
Endless repetition of half-truths.
People remember what they choose to remember.
The papers had a bias in 1975 just as the papers had a bias the other way in 2016.
Look up "lse 1975 referendum leaflets"
You'll find that everything is discussed.
The UK has not lost the right to so any of the things that you claim. It's balanced benefits against liabilities just as is done in any agreement.
The UK's sovereign government modified it's agreements with the EU. That's how Parliamentary democracy works.
A referendum indicates a preference which then had to be defined and enacted.
Define "Brexit means Brexit" for me then. Why is Johnson's Brexit different to Farage's Brexit? Which is the "real" Brexit that was so knowledgeably votes for?
Shall we have a referendum on paying zero tax and maintaining public services and then demand that somebody "gets it done"?
The majority who voted to remain in the EEC are dead. 20% of those who survive changed their minds. That's about 6% of those who voted in 2016.
I don't think that leave voters are stupid. I think leave voters made a choice based on the information that they had or chose to believe or just on what they felt.
Acting stupid by blaming everything on other people and not acknowledging complexity is a different matter.
Were those who voted to remain in 1975 stupid?
Deal with it? I'm dealing with it by opposing it. It's a democracy. |
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