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the "most stupid" tory of the day contest....
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
jacob rees mogg for his grenfell comments....
or
andrew bridgen for trying to defend jacob rees mogg's grenfell comments....
its not often then you "out-stupid" nadine dorries, andrea jenkyns or esther mcvey..... but these two dimwits are doing a spectactular job!!!  |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
I caught a bit of Mrs May speaking in the Commons on the day the first bit of the report was published.
She recalled visiting a survivor in hospital.
He and his child stayed in a flat.
Other residents followed the advice of the fire brigade and all gathered in his flat.
He took a chance and made a dash for it.
The two of them survived.
28 people perished in their flat.
Heart-breaking.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Mogg's comments on the radio were absolutely crass.
"
They were poorly chosen words on the spur of the moment.
Yes he made a prick of himself but the calls for him to resign are equally ridiculous |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Mogg's comments on the radio were absolutely crass.
They were poorly chosen words on the spur of the moment.
Yes he made a prick of himself but the calls for him to resign are equally ridiculous "
Resign from what? He is no longer an MP as of midnight.
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They aren't stupid. They're despicable - because they're smart enough to know better. They simply don't care.
Tories, by virtue of the policies they pursue, are demonstrably harmful, even to the point of causing excess deaths, to the vulnerable and less fortunate.
It has always been their way and it always will be. That people are content to support them in the harm they cause is regrettable. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
Actually, just for a change, I think that he did mean that in retrospect it would be common sense to not listen to the fire brigade if they told you to remain in a burning flat built against regulations.
He wasn't intending to be patronising or offensive.
He was, however, still being a twat. The fire brigade advice is there for a reason. In saying this he is jeapordising lives as he is saying don't listen to fire brigade advice.
He wins for a different reason than expected. |
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They struggle to out-do each other but Mogg should carry the sham. If unsure whether you are going to say something appropriate, the intelligent approach is to stay silent ! This is especially true when you are discussing such a large amount of people who faced horrific endings to their lives, leaving so many traumatised people behind. May and Mogg have demonstrated their unsuitability for senior public office, over their responses to this atrocious accident |
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I thought from the beginning that it was crazy to remain in a burning building. If there is a fire in the hotel I'm staying in then I leave immediately. I'm not going to wait in my room until they have put it out. It appears the fire brigade were trying to save the building rather than the people in it. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I thought from the beginning that it was crazy to remain in a burning building. If there is a fire in the hotel I'm staying in then I leave immediately. I'm not going to wait in my room until they have put it out. It appears the fire brigade were trying to save the building rather than the people in it."
Sure. That's exactly their priority 
You've said how clever you are and that people comment on it.
Why does the Fire service give the advice to remain in the room? What do you know about fire safety and combustion mechanics that they don't?
You'd take your carry on luggage off the plane with you too right? I mean, why follow the instructions?  |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"I thought from the beginning that it was crazy to remain in a burning building. If there is a fire in the hotel I'm staying in then I leave immediately. I'm not going to wait in my room until they have put it out. It appears the fire brigade were trying to save the building rather than the people in it."
No.
The fire advice was standard for a block of that type, based on the design principles.
The design principles state a fire will be contained within a flat for something like 30 mins before spreading.
30 mins is sufficient for the nearest fire crew to reach the scene and extinguish.
So the standard advice to other occupants is to remain.
The addition of the flammable cladding changed the design principles.
The next phase of the inquiry should establish whether a new fire risk assessment was carried out and why the advice was not changed as a result.
The criticism of the fire brigade was it was too slow to realise the gravity of the situation and abandon the standard fire-block advice.
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
And do you know why I think he apologised so quickly?
Someone reminded him we have had only part one of this inquiry.
Part two may well find the Conservative-run local council acted negligently.
When the deaths are attributed partly to the institutional snobbery of his chums on the council, those words will come back to haunt him.
Common sense.
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"Actually, just for a change, I think that he did mean that in retrospect it would be common sense to not listen to the fire brigade if they told you to remain in a burning flat built against regulations.
He wasn't intending to be patronising or offensive.
"
He was neither patronising nor offensive, simply misinterpreted when expressing sadness at the unnecessary loss of life. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"I thought from the beginning that it was crazy to remain in a burning building. If there is a fire in the hotel I'm staying in then I leave immediately. I'm not going to wait in my room until they have put it out. It appears the fire brigade were trying to save the building rather than the people in it."
In a hotel, you follow the advice on the emergency instruction card, which says leave immediately via the nearest fire route when the fire alarm rings.
In a tower block, you follow the advice on the emergency instruction card, which says remain in your flat when the fire alarm rings.
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I thought from the beginning that it was crazy to remain in a burning building. If there is a fire in the hotel I'm staying in then I leave immediately. I'm not going to wait in my room until they have put it out. It appears the fire brigade were trying to save the building rather than the people in it.
In a hotel, you follow the advice on the emergency instruction card, which says leave immediately via the nearest fire route when the fire alarm rings.
In a tower block, you follow the advice on the emergency instruction card, which says remain in your flat when the fire alarm rings.
"
It depends on the hotel... |
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"Where in the interview does he express sadness, or condolences, with the victims?
"
He was commenting on the report, and expressed the view that it was so very tragic because many more people could have survived had they fled the building.
To be told to stay put in a building that in the end could not be saved is utterly, utterly tragic.
For the Fire Brigade's advice to unwittingly lead to the deaths of so many people that they were desperately trying to save is utterly, utterly tragic.
And for a building to have been 'improved' by adding cladding that actually turned it into a deathtrap is utterly, utterly tragic.
The whole thing is a fucking tragedy, but to try to turn it into political point-scoring is despicable. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The tragedy, according to Rees-Mogg, was that people did not use common sense and just ignore the emergency instructions.
"The more one's read over the weekend about the report and about the chances of people surviving, if you just ignore what you're told and leave you are so much safer. And I think if either of us were in a fire, whatever the fire brigade said, we would leave the burning building. It just seems the common sense thing to do. And it is such a tragedy that that didn't happen."
Try spinning it all you like, it just does not read any better however many times you read it.
You said his sadness has been misinterpreted.
I asked you where was his expression of sadness.
There is none.
Only sanctimonious bullshit, exacerbated by Bridgen and his claim that Rees-Moog is simply cleverer than the tenants.
I imagine both will be kept well hidden from the media now by Tory central office for the next six weeks.
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Where in the interview does he express sadness, or condolences, with the victims?
He was commenting on the report, and expressed the view that it was so very tragic because many more people could have survived had they fled the building.
To be told to stay put in a building that in the end could not be saved is utterly, utterly tragic.
For the Fire Brigade's advice to unwittingly lead to the deaths of so many people that they were desperately trying to save is utterly, utterly tragic.
And for a building to have been 'improved' by adding cladding that actually turned it into a deathtrap is utterly, utterly tragic.
The whole thing is a fucking tragedy, but to try to turn it into political point-scoring is despicable."
I agree with you on most of this.
However, what he did was imply that the fire service should be ignored in the future. That people should use "common sense" in the future. This is something hugely lacking in a crisis.
This will lead to another tragedy when advice is ignored.
You will have noticed that the correction was only to save face and embarrassment not to make it clear that fire service advice should still be followed... |
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"The tragedy, according to Rees-Mogg, was that people did not use common sense and just ignore the emergency instructions.
"The more one's read over the weekend about the report and about the chances of people surviving, if you just ignore what you're told and leave you are so much safer. And I think if either of us were in a fire, whatever the fire brigade said, we would leave the burning building. It just seems the common sense thing to do. And it is such a tragedy that that didn't happen."
Try spinning it all you like, it just does not read any better however many times you read it.
You said his sadness has been misinterpreted.
I asked you where was his expression of sadness.
There is none.
Only sanctimonious bullshit, exacerbated by Bridgen and his claim that Rees-Moog is simply cleverer than the tenants.
I imagine both will be kept well hidden from the media now by Tory central office for the next six weeks.
"
As I say, the only hatred is in your mind, I have no hatred, and to me he was clearly expressing deep regret at the tragic circumstances. |
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
James Cleverly has been sent out by the Conservatives on "clean up" duty this morning... how well do you think that went...
got destroyed by piers morgan on good morning britain
and by nick robinson on radio 4....
and by louise minchin on bbc breakfast...
and then no showed kay burley of sky news and got 3 minutes of being empty chaired.....
the remember the advice to "stay put" is there because the fire in itself should have been self contained.... the fire didn't spread from the inside.... it spread from the outside up the building due to the cladding!!!!!
what rees mogg said was grossly offensive and grossly stupid.....
bridgen in trying to defend him made it a whole lot worse! |
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"Where in the interview does he express sadness, or condolences, with the victims?
He was commenting on the report, and expressed the view that it was so very tragic because many more people could have survived had they fled the building.
To be told to stay put in a building that in the end could not be saved is utterly, utterly tragic.
For the Fire Brigade's advice to unwittingly lead to the deaths of so many people that they were desperately trying to save is utterly, utterly tragic.
And for a building to have been 'improved' by adding cladding that actually turned it into a deathtrap is utterly, utterly tragic.
The whole thing is a fucking tragedy, but to try to turn it into political point-scoring is despicable.
I agree with you on most of this.
However, what he did was imply that the fire service should be ignored in the future. That people should use "common sense" in the future. This is something hugely lacking in a crisis.
This will lead to another tragedy when advice is ignored.
You will have noticed that the correction was only to save face and embarrassment not to make it clear that fire service advice should still be followed..."
For sure, his words were ambiguous, and so liable to misinterpretation on that point, for which he was obviously apologetic.
Listening to it I am not sure what he meant - whether he was saying 'Bugger what the fire brigade say, I'm gonna run from a burning building' or 'It's totally counter-intuitive to stay put in a burning building and how tragic that turned out not to be the right advice in this case and how tragic that they didn't all say 'Bugger off, I'm out of here' - on this occasion. I think he meant the latter which of course raises questions about following fire brigade advice, which of course, most of the time, one should.
But, I will certainly be a lot happier after the fire brigade has announced what changes it is going to make to protocol in future, Grenfell DOES raise the spectre of 'How much can we trust Fire Brigade advice?' |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
We'll find out in part two, when the role of the council, the housing organisation and the contractors is examined.
It ought to tell us why the emergency instructions did not change when a decision was taken to wrap a fire-proof building in petrol.
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"The Honourable member for Somerset should do the decent thing and resign. I used to quite like him in a strange way. He was good value for a laugh.
But now he’s a dumb ass. "
Nonsense, he has done nothing wrong. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The Honourable member for Somerset should do the decent thing and resign. I used to quite like him in a strange way. He was good value for a laugh.
But now he’s a dumb ass. "
I absolutely agree he’s a disgrace.Maybe his constituents will do the country a favour and finish him . |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"The Honourable member for Somerset should do the decent thing and resign. I used to quite like him in a strange way. He was good value for a laugh.
But now he’s a dumb ass.
Nonsense, he has done nothing wrong."
When you are in a hole, the first rule is to stop digging.
The chairman of the Conservative Party, Cleverly, says the comments caused "a huge amount of distress and hurt".
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I see Jezza has waded in with his penny worth. Is he OK to do it then because his point of view is more right than JRMs ? Why can't these stupid politicians just button it and stop using this awful incident to score political points. We all know it was a tragic accident waiting to happen and the consequences will last decades but this sort of stuff just ferments hatred and nastiness. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There are a lot of issues that need investigating in greater depth, particularly regarding the fact that the Building Research Establishment has endorsed manufacturers who use plastic foam backed aluminium cladding to basically create a potential inferno on so many buildings. The fire brigade advice is correct because the potential to create a chimney effect in tall buildings if you allow air to flow rapidly by opening doors is enormous and that is why they use intumescent strips and fire breaks to contain any fire. The bottom line in all of this is that a product that is entirely inappropriate for a human habitation was available and chosen because of cost rather than quality. JRM really should be on the shortlist for a Darwin award!  |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Where in the interview does he express sadness, or condolences, with the victims?
He was commenting on the report, and expressed the view that it was so very tragic because many more people could have survived had they fled the building.
To be told to stay put in a building that in the end could not be saved is utterly, utterly tragic.
For the Fire Brigade's advice to unwittingly lead to the deaths of so many people that they were desperately trying to save is utterly, utterly tragic.
And for a building to have been 'improved' by adding cladding that actually turned it into a deathtrap is utterly, utterly tragic.
The whole thing is a fucking tragedy, but to try to turn it into political point-scoring is despicable.
I agree with you on most of this.
However, what he did was imply that the fire service should be ignored in the future. That people should use "common sense" in the future. This is something hugely lacking in a crisis.
This will lead to another tragedy when advice is ignored.
You will have noticed that the correction was only to save face and embarrassment not to make it clear that fire service advice should still be followed...
For sure, his words were ambiguous, and so liable to misinterpretation on that point, for which he was obviously apologetic.
Listening to it I am not sure what he meant - whether he was saying 'Bugger what the fire brigade say, I'm gonna run from a burning building' or 'It's totally counter-intuitive to stay put in a burning building and how tragic that turned out not to be the right advice in this case and how tragic that they didn't all say 'Bugger off, I'm out of here' - on this occasion. I think he meant the latter which of course raises questions about following fire brigade advice, which of course, most of the time, one should.
But, I will certainly be a lot happier after the fire brigade has announced what changes it is going to make to protocol in future, Grenfell DOES raise the spectre of 'How much can we trust Fire Brigade advice?'"
It does not raise the spectre of how much can we trust the Fire Brigade because I guarantee that out "common sense" means far less than their knowledge and experience.
They're experts though, and we've had enough of them, right?
To make up a new protocol on the fly in a situation where whatever decision they took would be wrong. Full marks for criticism in hindsight 
I wonder if vaccinations are safe? We're still reaping the rewards of that second guessing of the experts. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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What amazes me is Jezza has the gall to stand there and say in his oh so calm, patronising way, " I will rise above name calling and personal attacks. If they do come at me like that I will take the high ground and if they go lower I will just go higher". Then virtually within 5 mins of that launches a below the belt personal attack. I just shake my head in disbelief at the hypocrisy of what he said. |
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By *ild_oatsMan
over a year ago
the land of saints & sinners |
Surely the best question to ask is name the "least stupid" tory of the day contest....
You have a chance of picking someone as you will have a smaller field of candidates to choose from.....  |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Surely the best question to ask is name the "least stupid" tory of the day contest....
You have a chance of picking someone as you will have a smaller field of candidates to choose from..... "
Weren't the least stupid ones booted out or stood down?
If you consider that the last cabinet was made of the very best people available... |
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"The Honourable member for Somerset should do the decent thing and resign. I used to quite like him in a strange way. He was good value for a laugh.
But now he’s a dumb ass.
Nonsense, he has done nothing wrong.
When you are in a hole, the first rule is to stop digging.
The chairman of the Conservative Party, Cleverly, says the comments caused "a huge amount of distress and hurt".
"
No hole, he did nothing wrong, the cynical political spin has caused way more damage that a few innocent words ever could. |
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"What amazes me is Jezza has the gall to stand there and say in his oh so calm, patronising way, " I will rise above name calling and personal attacks. If they do come at me like that I will take the high ground and if they go lower I will just go higher". Then virtually within 5 mins of that launches a below the belt personal attack. I just shake my head in disbelief at the hypocrisy of what he said."
He's been a total hypocrite his entire life, maybe he can't bear the fact that he was born wealthy, was educated privately, and has never had a job in the real world! Man of the people my arse! |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"jacob rees mogg for his grenfell comments....
or
andrew bridgen for trying to defend jacob rees mogg's grenfell comments....
its not often then you "out-stupid" nadine dorries, andrea jenkyns or esther mcvey..... but these two dimwits are doing a spectactular job!!! "
It should say politition your bias is sad.Dianne Abbot has probably been gagged but other left wing nasties will make gaffs |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Actually, just for a change, I think that he did mean that in retrospect it would be common sense to not listen to the fire brigade if they told you to remain in a burning flat built against regulations.
He wasn't intending to be patronising or offensive.
He was, however, still being a twat. The fire brigade advice is there for a reason. In saying this he is jeapordising lives as he is saying don't listen to fire brigade advice.
He wins for a different reason than expected."
Fire brigade advice was based on the building meeting Fire brigade standards, and it wasn't. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Actually, just for a change, I think that he did mean that in retrospect it would be common sense to not listen to the fire brigade if they told you to remain in a burning flat built against regulations.
He wasn't intending to be patronising or offensive.
He was, however, still being a twat. The fire brigade advice is there for a reason. In saying this he is jeapordising lives as he is saying don't listen to fire brigade advice.
He wins for a different reason than expected.
Fire brigade advice was based on the building meeting Fire brigade standards, and it wasn't. "
Still a difficult choice |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
Today's entry.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-news-live-general-election-kwasi-kwarteng-labour-spending-a9197021.html
Tory minister refuses to say how much PM's plans will cost, despite releasing analysis of Labour's spending
Follow the latest updates from Westminster and beyond
Business minister Kwasi Kwarteng has refused to say how much Boris Johnson’s election pledges will cost - despite attacking Labour’s “reckless” spending plans.
The Conservative MP repeatedly failed to answer the question during a TV interview after repeating his party’s claim that Jeremy Corbyn’s plans amounted to £1.2 trillion over five years.
In what what quickly described as a “car crash interview”, Mr Kwarteng told Sky News's Sophy Ridge on Sunday: “I’m not going to bandy around figures.” Ms Ridge replied: “But that’s what you’ve been doing for Labour.” |
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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago
carrbrook stalybridge |
"Actually, just for a change, I think that he did mean that in retrospect it would be common sense to not listen to the fire brigade if they told you to remain in a burning flat built against regulations.
He wasn't intending to be patronising or offensive.
He was, however, still being a twat. The fire brigade advice is there for a reason. In saying this he is jeapordising lives as he is saying don't listen to fire brigade advice.
He wins for a different reason than expected.
Fire brigade advice was based on the building meeting Fire brigade standards, and it wasn't. "
the firebrigade the ones who turn up when everybody elses risk assesment failed to try and clean up the mess whilst those with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight wait to nail them for the slughtest error |
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