FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > 1, 269,501 brexiteers
1, 269,501 brexiteers
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
Is the amount of people,
Who you could argue voted for brexit
Once you take away the 16+ million from the 17+ million .
you theoretically cancel out an awful lot of the brexit vote.
Can we as a Country of 60+million really be controlled by the will of just over 1 & a quarter million people? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"Is the amount of people,
Who you could argue voted for brexit
Once you take away the 16+ million from the 17+ million .
you theoretically cancel out an awful lot of the brexit vote.
Can we as a Country of 60+million really be controlled by the will of just over 1 & a quarter million people?"
Are you Diane Abbott ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Is the amount of people,
Who you could argue voted for brexit
Once you take away the 16+ million from the 17+ million .
you theoretically cancel out an awful lot of the brexit vote.
Can we as a Country of 60+million really be controlled by the will of just over 1 & a quarter million people?"
That's not quite how it works, but it is a tiny margin.
4% is in no way overwhelming. It also does not give carte blanche to impose the most extreme position.
However, what is pertinent is that targeted advertising can easily shift such a small number of voters one way or another.
Especially if facts aren't needed. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is the amount of people,
Who you could argue voted for brexit
Once you take away the 16+ million from the 17+ million .
you theoretically cancel out an awful lot of the brexit vote.
Can we as a Country of 60+million really be controlled by the will of just over 1 & a quarter million people?"
We have been controlled by that small margin.
And the number of Bristish people who will benefit from brexit will be a fraction of that again.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Is the amount of people,
Who you could argue voted for brexit
Once you take away the 16+ million from the 17+ million .
you theoretically cancel out an awful lot of the brexit vote.
Can we as a Country of 60+million really be controlled by the will of just over 1 & a quarter million people?"
Your barmy |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *lex46TV/TS
over a year ago
Near Wells |
"Is the amount of people,
Who you could argue voted for brexit
Once you take away the 16+ million from the 17+ million .
you theoretically cancel out an awful lot of the brexit vote.
Can we as a Country of 60+million really be controlled by the will of just over 1 & a quarter million people?"
This absolutely makes no sense. It's either the will of 17 million people over 60 million or 1.25 million over 27 million (16 and 17 million taken away from the 60 million). If you see what I mean. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Is the amount of people,
Who you could argue voted for brexit
Once you take away the 16+ million from the 17+ million .
you theoretically cancel out an awful lot of the brexit vote.
Can we as a Country of 60+million really be controlled by the will of just over 1 & a quarter million people?"
Well, it was the votes of 57 MPs who agreed to take us into it in the first place, and 5 MPs' votes who passed the legislation to do so. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Is the amount of people,
Who you could argue voted for brexit
Once you take away the 16+ million from the 17+ million .
you theoretically cancel out an awful lot of the brexit vote.
Can we as a Country of 60+million really be controlled by the will of just over 1 & a quarter million people?
This absolutely makes no sense. It's either the will of 17 million people over 60 million or 1.25 million over 27 million (16 and 17 million taken away from the 60 million). If you see what I mean. "
17,410,742 voted to leave and 16,141,241 voted to remain. 12,948,018 chose not to vote and there were 25,359 spoilt votes. 33,551,983 voted from a total electorate of 46,500,001 (By the Electoral Commissions figures).
The total population is not the same as the electorate.
For example under 18’s and foreign nationals weren’t eligible to vote in the referendum.
So basically 17,410,742 voted for Brexit not 1,269,501. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Is the amount of people,
Who you could argue voted for brexit
Once you take away the 16+ million from the 17+ million .
you theoretically cancel out an awful lot of the brexit vote.
Can we as a Country of 60+million really be controlled by the will of just over 1 & a quarter million people?
Well, it was the votes of 57 MPs who agreed to take us into it in the first place, and 5 MPs' votes who passed the legislation to do so."
Stop Blaming the politicians .
The Electorate voted for them .
Only 1 Mandate matters in that & that is the Conservative party one. Labour do not get to implement there manifesto as they didnt win the GE . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Is the amount of people,
Who you could argue voted for brexit
Once you take away the 16+ million from the 17+ million .
you theoretically cancel out an awful lot of the brexit vote.
Can we as a Country of 60+million really be controlled by the will of just over 1 & a quarter million people?
This absolutely makes no sense. It's either the will of 17 million people over 60 million or 1.25 million over 27 million (16 and 17 million taken away from the 60 million). If you see what I mean.
17,410,742 voted to leave and 16,141,241 voted to remain. 12,948,018 chose not to vote and there were 25,359 spoilt votes. 33,551,983 voted from a total electorate of 46,500,001 (By the Electoral Commissions figures).
The total population is not the same as the electorate.
For example under 18’s and foreign nationals weren’t eligible to vote in the referendum.
So basically 17,410,742 voted for Brexit not 1,269,501."
But i am only talking about the 1.25 million here .
They are the difference in the vote.
It is there vote than is controlling a drive for Brexit.
It is therefore not the ""WILL OF THE PEOPLE ". |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is the amount of people,
Who you could argue voted for brexit
Once you take away the 16+ million from the 17+ million .
you theoretically cancel out an awful lot of the brexit vote.
Can we as a Country of 60+million really be controlled by the will of just over 1 & a quarter million people?
This absolutely makes no sense. It's either the will of 17 million people over 60 million or 1.25 million over 27 million (16 and 17 million taken away from the 60 million). If you see what I mean.
17,410,742 voted to leave and 16,141,241 voted to remain. 12,948,018 chose not to vote and there were 25,359 spoilt votes. 33,551,983 voted from a total electorate of 46,500,001 (By the Electoral Commissions figures).
The total population is not the same as the electorate.
For example under 18’s and foreign nationals weren’t eligible to vote in the referendum.
So basically 17,410,742 voted for Brexit not 1,269,501.
But i am only talking about the 1.25 million here .
They are the difference in the vote.
It is there vote than is controlling a drive for Brexit.
It is therefore not the ""WILL OF THE PEOPLE "."
So no one voted to remain then  Easy this maths malarkey  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Is the amount of people,
Who you could argue voted for brexit
Once you take away the 16+ million from the 17+ million .
you theoretically cancel out an awful lot of the brexit vote.
Can we as a Country of 60+million really be controlled by the will of just over 1 & a quarter million people?
This absolutely makes no sense. It's either the will of 17 million people over 60 million or 1.25 million over 27 million (16 and 17 million taken away from the 60 million). If you see what I mean.
17,410,742 voted to leave and 16,141,241 voted to remain. 12,948,018 chose not to vote and there were 25,359 spoilt votes. 33,551,983 voted from a total electorate of 46,500,001 (By the Electoral Commissions figures).
The total population is not the same as the electorate.
For example under 18’s and foreign nationals weren’t eligible to vote in the referendum.
So basically 17,410,742 voted for Brexit not 1,269,501.
But i am only talking about the 1.25 million here .
They are the difference in the vote.
It is there vote than is controlling a drive for Brexit.
It is therefore not the ""WILL OF THE PEOPLE ".
So no one voted to remain then Easy this maths malarkey "
It's better than that....
-1,269,501 voted to remain! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Well the SNP certainly think that the 1.5 million Scotish voted to remain in the EU somehow carry more weight than the 17.4 million UK wide votes to leave. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
I have often read that General Elections are won and lost on the votes of - oh, I cannot remember the exact number, but say 200,000 people.
These are the people characterised as Middle England - the voters in a number of known marginal constituencies who swing the overall outcome to the left or the right.
Elsewhere, the result is mostly a foregone conclusion.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Well the SNP certainly think that the 1.5 million Scotish voted to remain in the EU somehow carry more weight than the 17.4 million UK wide votes to leave."
Your point would be valid if the SNP was a UK party. It is not. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ky19Man
over a year ago
Plymouth OYO Hotel |
"I have often read that General Elections are won and lost on the votes of - oh, I cannot remember the exact number, but say 200,000 people.
These are the people characterised as Middle England - the voters in a number of known marginal constituencies who swing the overall outcome to the left or the right.
Elsewhere, the result is mostly a foregone conclusion.
"
This is why I thought that Alternative Vote was a good idea til it was nobbled.
Otherwise, some (more) scrap*ng of the barrel going on! 
Oh seriously, I had to change the i to a *! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Hope you get to find out how UK voting works, or you're going to be dissapointed again on the 13th.
60 million people do not have a vote. 45 million are on the register.
Each area, the winner is the one with the most votes (if you want to say but more people didn't vote for that one, do it on all candidates and you find the winner is still the winner).
If there was no choice on the voting slip, we would be in a one party nation. How's that working in those countries?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Hope you get to find out how UK voting works, or you're going to be dissapointed again on the 13th.
60 million people do not have a vote. 45 million are on the register.
Each area, the winner is the one with the most votes (if you want to say but more people didn't vote for that one, do it on all candidates and you find the winner is still the winner).
If there was no choice on the voting slip, we would be in a one party nation. How's that working in those countries?
"
60 million do not have a vote?
Population of the UK is approaching 67 million, of which around 46 million can vote.
That makes 21 million that can't vote. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Brexit won deal with it and get on with life. Don’t show yourself as a bad looser. "
Classic.
So you've split us into good losers and bad losers?
I am going to take a punt and say that you're suggesting remainers are the "bad" losers, because we're speaking out against ruining the country for the sake of some rich people getting richer.
Meanwhile the good losers (leavers). Are just blindly accepting that life will be worse, but aren't going to speak up about it.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *rufinWoman
over a year ago
notts |
How many of them are dead already?
How many will be dead by the time we actually leave?
While the young generation are mostly remain
If they thought it was really the will of the people, we would be allowed a confirmatory vote, ideally without Russian interference. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The referendum as a Binary vote was completely flawed anyway as the leave vote was lumped together when clearly there is Nigel Farages leave without a deal pure brexit zealots lumped together with Boris's leave with a deal type voter.
The only way out of this blind alley is to either have a proper 2nd preference vote or leave with the deal on offer as clearly the brexit zealots do not under any circumstances have a mandate to leave without a deal, unless of course the brexit party wins over 50% of the vote in the general election. There it's sorted ......... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The referendum as a Binary vote was completely flawed anyway as the leave vote was lumped together when clearly there is Nigel Farages leave without a deal pure brexit zealots lumped together with Boris's leave with a deal type voter.
The only way out of this blind alley is to either have a proper 2nd preference vote or leave with the deal on offer as clearly the brexit zealots do not under any circumstances have a mandate to leave without a deal, unless of course the brexit party wins over 50% of the vote in the general election. There it's sorted ........."
I don't necessarily agree.
We knew from the start that it would be a choice between a shitty deal, or a no deal (even shittier).
The average Daily Mail / Express reader doesn't have a clue what any of that means:
"Respect democracy!"
"What part of 'leave' don't you understand?!?"
Etc
I can't see why any leaver would have changed their minds. If they ignored the information last time, and believed the lies. They're likely to do it again. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The referendum as a Binary vote was completely flawed anyway as the leave vote was lumped together when clearly there is Nigel Farages leave without a deal pure brexit zealots lumped together with Boris's leave with a deal type voter.
The only way out of this blind alley is to either have a proper 2nd preference vote or leave with the deal on offer as clearly the brexit zealots do not under any circumstances have a mandate to leave without a deal, unless of course the brexit party wins over 50% of the vote in the general election. There it's sorted .........
I don't necessarily agree.
We knew from the start that it would be a choice between a shitty deal, or a no deal (even shittier).
The average Daily Mail / Express reader doesn't have a clue what any of that means:
"Respect democracy!"
"What part of 'leave' don't you understand?!?"
Etc
I can't see why any leaver would have changed their minds. If they ignored the information last time, and believed the lies. They're likely to do it again."
to be fair I don't necessarily think it was done deliberately like that. I just think the people in charge of deciding the question just simply didn't think it through properly to it's logical conclusion.
I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but sometimes you have to acknowledge a big mistake has been made and that the advisory referendum has such a deep flaw in it that it it's result should simply be called null and void or.......... leave with the deal on offer and try to make the best of a bad job.
It is the way out of the Kubayashi maru situation we are in. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The referendum as a Binary vote was completely flawed anyway as the leave vote was lumped together when clearly there is Nigel Farages leave without a deal pure brexit zealots lumped together with Boris's leave with a deal type voter.
The only way out of this blind alley is to either have a proper 2nd preference vote or leave with the deal on offer as clearly the brexit zealots do not under any circumstances have a mandate to leave without a deal, unless of course the brexit party wins over 50% of the vote in the general election. There it's sorted .........
I don't necessarily agree.
We knew from the start that it would be a choice between a shitty deal, or a no deal (even shittier).
The average Daily Mail / Express reader doesn't have a clue what any of that means:
"Respect democracy!"
"What part of 'leave' don't you understand?!?"
Etc
I can't see why any leaver would have changed their minds. If they ignored the information last time, and believed the lies. They're likely to do it again.
to be fair I don't necessarily think it was done deliberately like that. I just think the people in charge of deciding the question just simply didn't think it through properly to it's logical conclusion.
I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but sometimes you have to acknowledge a big mistake has been made and that the advisory referendum has such a deep flaw in it that it it's result should simply be called null and void or.......... leave with the deal on offer and try to make the best of a bad job.
It is the way out of the Kubayashi maru situation we are in. "
If you look back at where the Brexit campaigns and ads were all funded from. I think you can see that it was very carefully thought through, precise and purposeful.
Russians, Americans, business owners who want to exploit their workers (Aaron Banks, Tim Martin etc), those who wish to avoid paying taxes and make shit loads of cash shorting the pound on the stock market (ERG etc).
This is where the funding for Brexit came from and this is where the benefits will be seen.
Maybe a handful of people will realise. But all in all, I can't see that many people will have changed their minds.
But of course. I could be completely wrong. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"The referendum as a Binary vote was completely flawed anyway as the leave vote was lumped together when clearly there is Nigel Farages leave without a deal pure brexit zealots lumped together with Boris's leave with a deal type voter.
The only way out of this blind alley is to either have a proper 2nd preference vote or leave with the deal on offer as clearly the brexit zealots do not under any circumstances have a mandate to leave without a deal, unless of course the brexit party wins over 50% of the vote in the general election. There it's sorted ........."
I was watching an interview with David Liddington last week. He was asked what the EU would be like in 10 years time. His answer? "Totally different to what it is now, but I couldn't tell you in what way or how."
So if David Liddington, a remainer in Government, doesn't know what the EU will be like in even just 10 years, how was the remain vote any different to the leave vote in the number of options to it - we weren't told what the EU would be like in the future because nobody knows. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The referendum as a Binary vote was completely flawed anyway as the leave vote was lumped together when clearly there is Nigel Farages leave without a deal pure brexit zealots lumped together with Boris's leave with a deal type voter.
The only way out of this blind alley is to either have a proper 2nd preference vote or leave with the deal on offer as clearly the brexit zealots do not under any circumstances have a mandate to leave without a deal, unless of course the brexit party wins over 50% of the vote in the general election. There it's sorted .........
I was watching an interview with David Liddington last week. He was asked what the EU would be like in 10 years time. His answer? "Totally different to what it is now, but I couldn't tell you in what way or how."
So if David Liddington, a remainer in Government, doesn't know what the EU will be like in even just 10 years, how was the remain vote any different to the leave vote in the number of options to it - we weren't told what the EU would be like in the future because nobody knows."
Perhaps it will be more like the way we want it to be thanks to our stand that what is going on just doesn't QUITE feel right. And........... Donald Tusk says the door is always open if we want to rejoin under the wonderful new arrangements they make after we leave that we simply wont be able to resist  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Most of the brexiters that voted for brexit did so because daily mail told them to do so, which shows how badly informed they were. so now when it doesnt go their way they blame everyone else and the eu. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Most of the brexiters that voted for brexit did so because daily mail told them to do so, which shows how badly informed they were. so now when it doesnt go their way they blame everyone else and the eu."
The trouble with that argument is you are getting involved in the politics of a botched referendum and just get people's backs up as basically you are insulting their intelligence. In cold statistical terms it is obvious what was wrong with the referendum. It did not give the voter any opportunity to express their preference. Even our half cocked general electoral system give you something of an opportunity to do that so how can it be right that we accept a binary referendum.
You have to laugh and Nigel Farage's comment that Brexit is a cross party issue. Indeed it is because it was reinforced to be that way by the poor referendum. Hey the scots one will be exactly the same. I thought I used to like referendums but actually I am started to absolutely hate these daft binary ones that keep getting inflicted on us. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"The referendum as a Binary vote was completely flawed anyway as the leave vote was lumped together when clearly there is Nigel Farages leave without a deal pure brexit zealots lumped together with Boris's leave with a deal type voter.
The only way out of this blind alley is to either have a proper 2nd preference vote or leave with the deal on offer as clearly the brexit zealots do not under any circumstances have a mandate to leave without a deal, unless of course the brexit party wins over 50% of the vote in the general election. There it's sorted .........
I don't necessarily agree.
We knew from the start that it would be a choice between a shitty deal, or a no deal (even shittier).
The average Daily Mail / Express reader doesn't have a clue what any of that means:
"Respect democracy!"
"What part of 'leave' don't you understand?!?"
Etc
I can't see why any leaver would have changed their minds. If they ignored the information last time, and believed the lies. They're likely to do it again.
to be fair I don't necessarily think it was done deliberately like that. I just think the people in charge of deciding the question just simply didn't think it through properly to it's logical conclusion.
I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but sometimes you have to acknowledge a big mistake has been made and that the advisory referendum has such a deep flaw in it that it it's result should simply be called null and void or.......... leave with the deal on offer and try to make the best of a bad job.
It is the way out of the Kubayashi maru situation we are in. "
Referendums are used in other countries as part of representative democracy. They can be dangerous at the same time. Because of parliamentary sovereignty, it could only ever be advisory
To be blunt about it, the UK isn't very good at referendums and there's a few reasons for that. The electoral system isn't designed for them. A system that allows politicians to lie, make false promises, circumvent electoral spending isn't fit for purpose.
The ideology of English nationalism, exceptionalism and identity has been used to fracture the UK.
The UK media also has to take its share of the blame both long before the referendum and during the campaign.
Asking an electorate that has been lied to for years, a very complex macro economic decision that has long lasting and irreversible implications for the UK & NI has to be one of most arrogant short sighted political decision in modern history. Cameron promised the referendum for his own parties benefit.
Sometimes you have to save people from themselves, theres no going back from this but that doesn't mean the UK should drive off the cliff edge because of the 'will of the people |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Most of the brexiters that voted for brexit did so because daily mail told them to do so, which shows how badly informed they were. so now when it doesnt go their way they blame everyone else and the eu."
Do you really believe that the daily mail sells 17.4 million papers a day?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Most of the brexiters that voted for brexit did so because daily mail told them to do so, which shows how badly informed they were. so now when it doesnt go their way they blame everyone else and the eu.Do you really believe that the daily mail sells 17.4 million papers a day?"
No, but they have a online site dont they?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"Most of the brexiters that voted for brexit did so because daily mail told them to do so, which shows how badly informed they were. so now when it doesnt go their way they blame everyone else and the eu.Do you really believe that the daily mail sells 17.4 million papers a day?"
No but years of lies from the Mail, Express and Sun all fed and amplified lies about Europe and celebrated English Nationalism. All of this prepared the ground for Brexit even before the referendum
There was a particular journalist who didn't work for any of the forementioned who was sacked by his newspaper for telling lies about the EU. Boris was his name, I wonder what happened to him. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Most of the brexiters that voted for brexit did so because daily mail told them to do so, which shows how badly informed they were. so now when it doesnt go their way they blame everyone else and the eu."
I,ve read some things on here but boy this one takes the top prize,lmao you really believe this? Oh an I am sure you have proof too? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Most of the brexiters that voted for brexit did so because daily mail told them to do so, which shows how badly informed they were. so now when it doesnt go their way they blame everyone else and the eu.I,ve read some things on here but boy this one takes the top prize,lmao you really believe this? Oh an I am sure you have proof too? "
Do you have a better idea? Because no one seems to be able to suggest any other reasons why people were so easily persuaded to vote themselves into poverty for the benefit of the few at the top. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I am sure there are numerous reasons why everyone decided to vote the way they did but I cant buy that some 17 odd million people did so because of 1 newspaper, or even a couple of newspapers to be honest, but if you or anyone else has proof of this then fair enough. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I am sure there are numerous reasons why everyone decided to vote the way they did but I cant buy that some 17 odd million people did so because of 1 newspaper, or even a couple of newspapers to be honest, but if you or anyone else has proof of this then fair enough."
What are you talking about proof for?
The main point is that misinformation was promoted by a section of the media. People believed it. And then voted leave.
People still believe it. And this section of the media is still promoting the most damaging brexit possible. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Is the amount of people,
Who you could argue voted for brexit
Once you take away the 16+ million from the 17+ million .
you theoretically cancel out an awful lot of the brexit vote.
Can we as a Country of 60+million really be controlled by the will of just over 1 & a quarter million people?"
bollocks. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
From the horse’s mouth. Funny he hasn’t repeated this statement, even though he predicted the vote percentage!!!
Nigel Farage warns today he would fight for a second referendum on Britain in Europe if the remain campaign won by a narrow margin next month.
The Ukip leader said a small defeat for his leave camp would be “unfinished business” and predicted pressure would grow for a re-run of the 23 June ballot.
Farage told the Mirror: “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.”
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I am sure there are numerous reasons why everyone decided to vote the way they did but I cant buy that some 17 odd million people did so because of 1 newspaper, or even a couple of newspapers to be honest, but if you or anyone else has proof of this then fair enough.
What are you talking about proof for?
The main point is that misinformation was promoted by a section of the media. People believed it. And then voted leave.
People still believe it. And this section of the media is still promoting the most damaging brexit possible. "
because as has been stated many times in these discussions about brexit " we are only interested in facts and not hearsay", so without proof this is just someones opinion and not factual based at all. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I am sure there are numerous reasons why everyone decided to vote the way they did but I cant buy that some 17 odd million people did so because of 1 newspaper, or even a couple of newspapers to be honest, but if you or anyone else has proof of this then fair enough.
What are you talking about proof for?
The main point is that misinformation was promoted by a section of the media. People believed it. And then voted leave.
People still believe it. And this section of the media is still promoting the most damaging brexit possible. because as has been stated many times in these discussions about brexit " we are only interested in facts and not hearsay", so without proof this is just someones opinion and not factual based at all."
You're funny.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I am sure there are numerous reasons why everyone decided to vote the way they did but I cant buy that some 17 odd million people did so because of 1 newspaper, or even a couple of newspapers to be honest, but if you or anyone else has proof of this then fair enough.
What are you talking about proof for?
The main point is that misinformation was promoted by a section of the media. People believed it. And then voted leave.
People still believe it. And this section of the media is still promoting the most damaging brexit possible. because as has been stated many times in these discussions about brexit " we are only interested in facts and not hearsay", so without proof this is just someones opinion and not factual based at all.
You're funny. Thankyou lol, but that's what is always thrown at me if I make a statement on here with no proof to back it up, so if its alright for brexit supporters to have to prove every word they say why should this not be the same for remainers, fairs fair after all.
"
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *m3232Man
over a year ago
maidenhead |
"Brexit won deal with it and get on with life. Don’t show yourself as a bad looser.
Classic.
So you've split us into good losers and bad losers?
I am going to take a punt and say that you're suggesting remainers are the "bad" losers, because we're speaking out against ruining the country for the sake of some rich people getting richer.
Meanwhile the good losers (leavers). Are just blindly accepting that life will be worse, but aren't going to speak up about it.
"
Yep losers. Wait till Europe goes broke in the next 10years than tell me how lucky we where if we ever manage to get out.
We voted in the correct way but most of you do to want to accept what the majority wanted. Bad bad losers.
Let’s cancel the next vote because we don’t like who won.
If your worried about richer getting richer become one of those if your brain can make you money as that’s how those made there’s. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Most of the brexiters that voted for brexit did so because daily mail told them to do so, which shows how badly informed they were. so now when it doesnt go their way they blame everyone else and the eu.I,ve read some things on here but boy this one takes the top prize,lmao you really believe this? Oh an I am sure you have proof too?
Do you have a better idea? Because no one seems to be able to suggest any other reasons why people were so easily persuaded to vote themselves into poverty for the benefit of the few at the top."
That is right and the the other reason was the demographics of brexiters, most come from the poorest parts of england which is northern england. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Brexit won deal with it and get on with life. Don’t show yourself as a bad looser.
Classic.
So you've split us into good losers and bad losers?
I am going to take a punt and say that you're suggesting remainers are the "bad" losers, because we're speaking out against ruining the country for the sake of some rich people getting richer.
Meanwhile the good losers (leavers). Are just blindly accepting that life will be worse, but aren't going to speak up about it.
Yep losers. Wait till Europe goes broke in the next 10years than tell me how lucky we where if we ever manage to get out.
We voted in the correct way but most of you do to want to accept what the majority wanted. Bad bad losers.
Let’s cancel the next vote because we don’t like who won.
If your worried about richer getting richer become one of those if your brain can make you money as that’s how those made there’s. "
I'm sure there's a point in there somewhere.
Do you want to try again? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I am sure there are numerous reasons why everyone decided to vote the way they did but I cant buy that some 17 odd million people did so because of 1 newspaper, or even a couple of newspapers to be honest, but if you or anyone else has proof of this then fair enough.
What are you talking about proof for?
The main point is that misinformation was promoted by a section of the media. People believed it. And then voted leave.
People still believe it. And this section of the media is still promoting the most damaging brexit possible. because as has been stated many times in these discussions about brexit " we are only interested in facts and not hearsay", so without proof this is just someones opinion and not factual based at all.
You're funny. Thankyou lol, but that's what is always thrown at me if I make a statement on here with no proof to back it up, so if its alright for brexit supporters to have to prove every word they say why should this not be the same for remainers, fairs fair after all.
"
I'm not sure what you're asking me to "prove"?
Just look at any of those newspapers. Mail, express, sun etc.
They still print things about the EU that are completely untrue. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"I am sure there are numerous reasons why everyone decided to vote the way they did but I cant buy that some 17 odd million people did so because of 1 newspaper, or even a couple of newspapers to be honest, but if you or anyone else has proof of this then fair enough.
What are you talking about proof for?
The main point is that misinformation was promoted by a section of the media. People believed it. And then voted leave.
People still believe it. And this section of the media is still promoting the most damaging brexit possible. because as has been stated many times in these discussions about brexit " we are only interested in facts and not hearsay", so without proof this is just someones opinion and not factual based at all.
You're funny. Thankyou lol, but that's what is always thrown at me if I make a statement on here with no proof to back it up, so if its alright for brexit supporters to have to prove every word they say why should this not be the same for remainers, fairs fair after all.
I'm not sure what you're asking me to "prove"?
Just look at any of those newspapers. Mail, express, sun etc.
They still print things about the EU that are completely untrue."
And no doubt they were doing it in 1975 as well. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Is the amount of people,
Who you could argue voted for brexit
Once you take away the 16+ million from the 17+ million .
you theoretically cancel out an awful lot of the brexit vote.
Can we as a Country of 60+million really be controlled by the will of just over 1 & a quarter million people?
That's not quite how it works, but it is a tiny margin.
4% is in no way overwhelming. It also does not give carte blanche to impose the most extreme position.
However, what is pertinent is that targeted advertising can easily shift such a small number of voters one way or another.
Especially if facts aren't needed."
It's interesting and likely pertinent that No 10 refuses to release the report into foreign influence on UK voting, until after the election  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Why would you think i am Diane Abbott ?
Because you maths ability is much the same"
17,410,742 ( leave )
-16,141,241 ( remain )
____________
1,269,501 ( difference) .
My Maths is fine .
No apology needed Numpties
 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Why would you think i am Diane Abbott ?
Because you maths ability is much the same
17,410,742 ( leave )
-16,141,241 ( remain )
____________
1,269,501 ( difference) .
My Maths is fine .
No apology needed Numpties
"
You can present in any way you like, leave won the referendum.
If you think it was flawed, please start a campaign to fix the issue for the next one we have, and not retrospective.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"Why would you think i am Diane Abbott ?
Because you maths ability is much the same
17,410,742 ( leave )
-16,141,241 ( remain )
____________
1,269,501 ( difference) .
My Maths is fine .
No apology needed Numpties
"
If you say so, perhaps you need to look up the difference between majority and total votes, next you will be claiming that everyone who didnt vote wanted to remain and therefore remain won |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Why would you think i am Diane Abbott ?
Because you maths ability is much the same
17,410,742 ( leave )
-16,141,241 ( remain )
____________
1,269,501 ( difference) .
My Maths is fine .
No apology needed Numpties
If you say so, perhaps you need to look up the difference between majority and total votes, next you will be claiming that everyone who didnt vote wanted to remain and therefore remain won "
Why would i do that.
I am merely pointing out that
1 large group effectively cancels out
90%+ of another large group.
Therefore only a tiny percentage of a vote is left relevant.
This is not about whether you are a leaver or a remainer.
It is to show that only a tiny majority of the Vote
Effectively wants leave .
It also shows why a small number of politicians
Can decide if they wish to block leave
Or to enable leave.
It is not 17.4 million
It is not 16.1 million
It is a small % who wish to dictate how things are run.
Always has been always will be.
This General Election is not about that tiny majority .
It is about the Entirety of the population.
Vote or no vote. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Why would you think i am Diane Abbott ?
Because you maths ability is much the same
17,410,742 ( leave )
-16,141,241 ( remain )
____________
1,269,501 ( difference) .
My Maths is fine .
No apology needed Numpties
If you say so, perhaps you need to look up the difference between majority and total votes, next you will be claiming that everyone who didnt vote wanted to remain and therefore remain won
Why would i do that.
I am merely pointing out that
1 large group effectively cancels out
90%+ of another large group.
Therefore only a tiny percentage of a vote is left relevant.
This is not about whether you are a leaver or a remainer.
It is to show that only a tiny majority of the Vote
Effectively wants leave .
It also shows why a small number of politicians
Can decide if they wish to block leave
Or to enable leave.
It is not 17.4 million
It is not 16.1 million
It is a small % who wish to dictate how things are run.
Always has been always will be.
This General Election is not about that tiny majority .
It is about the Entirety of the population.
Vote or no vote."
This becomes circular.
There is no willingness to understand why percentages are used to describe opinion.
It indicates how popular a course of action is relative to population size.
A 4% majority expresses marginally more support.
It makes no sense to describe this as a binary win/lose scenario.
There very clear difference of opinion as to what Brexit means (Farage Vs Boger).
Leave does not mean leave.
Beyond that imposing such a radical change on a reluctant population, particularly if it causes severe disruption to their lives, will lead to failure.
Organisational change is hugely difficult in companies which know exactly what they want to achieve and what their strategy is. Changing a country with a lesser that has no idea what it wants except for power is nuts. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Why would you think i am Diane Abbott ?
Because you maths ability is much the same
17,410,742 ( leave )
-16,141,241 ( remain )
____________
1,269,501 ( difference) .
My Maths is fine .
No apology needed Numpties
If you say so, perhaps you need to look up the difference between majority and total votes, next you will be claiming that everyone who didnt vote wanted to remain and therefore remain won
Why would i do that.
I am merely pointing out that
1 large group effectively cancels out
90%+ of another large group.
Therefore only a tiny percentage of a vote is left relevant.
This is not about whether you are a leaver or a remainer.
It is to show that only a tiny majority of the Vote
Effectively wants leave .
It also shows why a small number of politicians
Can decide if they wish to block leave
Or to enable leave.
It is not 17.4 million
It is not 16.1 million
It is a small % who wish to dictate how things are run.
Always has been always will be.
This General Election is not about that tiny majority .
It is about the Entirety of the population.
Vote or no vote.
This becomes circular.
There is no willingness to understand why percentages are used to describe opinion.
It indicates how popular a course of action is relative to population size.
A 4% majority expresses marginally more support.
It makes no sense to describe this as a binary win/lose scenario.
There very clear difference of opinion as to what Brexit means (Farage Vs Boger).
Leave does not mean leave.
Beyond that imposing such a radical change on a reluctant population, particularly if it causes severe disruption to their lives, will lead to failure.
Organisational change is hugely difficult in companies which know exactly what they want to achieve and what their strategy is. Changing a country with a lesser that has no idea what it wants except for power is nuts."
It only becomes Circular if you do not see the
Aspect of a percentage vote.
A winning margin of just 4%.
Regardless of who had won , 4 % of a voting population
Is far to small to be steering the ship so to speak.
MPs will react to that & challenge a 4% majority vote. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Why would you think i am Diane Abbott ?
Because you maths ability is much the same
17,410,742 ( leave )
-16,141,241 ( remain )
____________
1,269,501 ( difference) .
My Maths is fine .
No apology needed Numpties
If you say so, perhaps you need to look up the difference between majority and total votes, next you will be claiming that everyone who didnt vote wanted to remain and therefore remain won
Why would i do that.
I am merely pointing out that
1 large group effectively cancels out
90%+ of another large group.
Therefore only a tiny percentage of a vote is left relevant.
This is not about whether you are a leaver or a remainer.
It is to show that only a tiny majority of the Vote
Effectively wants leave .
It also shows why a small number of politicians
Can decide if they wish to block leave
Or to enable leave.
It is not 17.4 million
It is not 16.1 million
It is a small % who wish to dictate how things are run.
Always has been always will be.
This General Election is not about that tiny majority .
It is about the Entirety of the population.
Vote or no vote.
This becomes circular.
There is no willingness to understand why percentages are used to describe opinion.
It indicates how popular a course of action is relative to population size.
A 4% majority expresses marginally more support.
It makes no sense to describe this as a binary win/lose scenario.
There very clear difference of opinion as to what Brexit means (Farage Vs Boger).
Leave does not mean leave.
Beyond that imposing such a radical change on a reluctant population, particularly if it causes severe disruption to their lives, will lead to failure.
Organisational change is hugely difficult in companies which know exactly what they want to achieve and what their strategy is. Changing a country with a lesser that has no idea what it wants except for power is nuts.
It only becomes Circular if you do not see the
Aspect of a percentage vote.
A winning margin of just 4%.
Regardless of who had won , 4 % of a voting population
Is far to small to be steering the ship so to speak.
MPs will react to that & challenge a 4% majority vote."
Although a winning margin of 1 in the HOC gets nodded through.... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *anbrCouple
over a year ago
Edinburgh |
Here is my perspective, for what it's worth! I am old enough to remember Ted Heath's tory government taking us into the "common market". Within a short space of time, we had butter mountains and milk lakes to starve supply and force prices up. Similar commodities were treated the same way - yet we were told it would be good for us. Normal, every day items became scarce. The apparent frivolous spending on buildings etc to house this common market and all of the staff etc was way beyond the ken of normal working people. Fast forward just over a decade to the Thatcher era and she seduced the working man by telling everyone that they could buy their homes (nothing ever spent to replace all of the "social housing" as we now know it. My father was a miner but during the strike, he wasn't angry at Thatcher, rather it was his own union and Arthur Scargill for not allowing him to vote. He would have followed the outcome of a ballot faithfully and hence the miners were broken.
Fast forward to today and there can be no doubt that within the tory party and its perifery that they are all betting on the outcome - stay or leave - looking to make a killing.
The fact of the matter is, no matter how close, how low or high the turnout is a vote is binding, end off.
It pains me to see all these arguments between leavers and remainers as it is pointless.
Politically this country is broken. Whilst I am a socialist by nature, I cannot justify voting Labour. I would never, ever trust the tories as they are all in it for themselves (rees-mogg makes my blood boil). And I am certainly not a nationalist (how can we ever fit the criteria to be in the eu?).
I want to leave the EU as it seems to be a busted flush and all indications are that it will probably implode in the next decade. But I want to leave as the United Kingdom so that we can find our own way in the world, as we once did. The tories will continue to asset strip the country by selling us off to whoever lines their pockets. Labour will most probably bankrupt us and the snp - well all they've ever wanted was for us to vote for independence until we get it right!
A revolution of some sorts needs to take place but what that looks like, God only knows but somethings got to give! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Here is my perspective, for what it's worth! I am old enough to remember Ted Heath's tory government taking us into the "common market". Within a short space of time, we had butter mountains and milk lakes to starve supply and force prices up. Similar commodities were treated the same way - yet we were told it would be good for us. Normal, every day items became scarce. The apparent frivolous spending on buildings etc to house this common market and all of the staff etc was way beyond the ken of normal working people. Fast forward just over a decade to the Thatcher era and she seduced the working man by telling everyone that they could buy their homes (nothing ever spent to replace all of the "social housing" as we now know it. My father was a miner but during the strike, he wasn't angry at Thatcher, rather it was his own union and Arthur Scargill for not allowing him to vote. He would have followed the outcome of a ballot faithfully and hence the miners were broken.
Fast forward to today and there can be no doubt that within the tory party and its perifery that they are all betting on the outcome - stay or leave - looking to make a killing.
The fact of the matter is, no matter how close, how low or high the turnout is a vote is binding, end off.
It pains me to see all these arguments between leavers and remainers as it is pointless.
Politically this country is broken. Whilst I am a socialist by nature, I cannot justify voting Labour. I would never, ever trust the tories as they are all in it for themselves (rees-mogg makes my blood boil). And I am certainly not a nationalist (how can we ever fit the criteria to be in the eu?).
I want to leave the EU as it seems to be a busted flush and all indications are that it will probably implode in the next decade. But I want to leave as the United Kingdom so that we can find our own way in the world, as we once did. The tories will continue to asset strip the country by selling us off to whoever lines their pockets. Labour will most probably bankrupt us and the snp - well all they've ever wanted was for us to vote for independence until we get it right!
A revolution of some sorts needs to take place but what that looks like, God only knows but somethings got to give! "
You have made some assertions about the EU imploding which are only those.
There has been an attempt to adhere to the referendum result, bibutt Parliament reflects the population. It is not its job to back government policy without question.
The definition of "Brexit means Brexit" was never agreed so how can you be surprised that there is no agreement?
Finding our own way in the world when it is split into economic and military super powers is foolish. Every mid to all country is trying to organise itself into a grouping or becoming a client state of a superpower.
Giving up our position leading one of the three most powerful groups is strategically crazy.
Leaving will begin the destruction of the UK. This process may already be inevitable now.
There is no successful Brexit so you can add that to your counsel of doom. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is the amount of people,
Who you could argue voted for brexit
Once you take away the 16+ million from the 17+ million .
you theoretically cancel out an awful lot of the brexit vote.
Can we as a Country of 60+million really be controlled by the will of just over 1 & a quarter million people?
Are you Diane Abbott ?"
Pmsl  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *anbrCouple
over a year ago
Edinburgh |
"Here is my perspective, for what it's worth! I am old enough to remember Ted Heath's tory government taking us into the "common market". Within a short space of time, we had butter mountains and milk lakes to starve supply and force prices up. Similar commodities were treated the same way - yet we were told it would be good for us. Normal, every day items became scarce. The apparent frivolous spending on buildings etc to house this common market and all of the staff etc was way beyond the ken of normal working people. Fast forward just over a decade to the Thatcher era and she seduced the working man by telling everyone that they could buy their homes (nothing ever spent to replace all of the "social housing" as we now know it. My father was a miner but during the strike, he wasn't angry at Thatcher, rather it was his own union and Arthur Scargill for not allowing him to vote. He would have followed the outcome of a ballot faithfully and hence the miners were broken.
Fast forward to today and there can be no doubt that within the tory party and its perifery that they are all betting on the outcome - stay or leave - looking to make a killing.
The fact of the matter is, no matter how close, how low or high the turnout is a vote is binding, end off.
It pains me to see all these arguments between leavers and remainers as it is pointless.
Politically this country is broken. Whilst I am a socialist by nature, I cannot justify voting Labour. I would never, ever trust the tories as they are all in it for themselves (rees-mogg makes my blood boil). And I am certainly not a nationalist (how can we ever fit the criteria to be in the eu?).
I want to leave the EU as it seems to be a busted flush and all indications are that it will probably implode in the next decade. But I want to leave as the United Kingdom so that we can find our own way in the world, as we once did. The tories will continue to asset strip the country by selling us off to whoever lines their pockets. Labour will most probably bankrupt us and the snp - well all they've ever wanted was for us to vote for independence until we get it right!
A revolution of some sorts needs to take place but what that looks like, God only knows but somethings got to give!
You have made some assertions about the EU imploding which are only those.
There has been an attempt to adhere to the referendum result, bibutt Parliament reflects the population. It is not its job to back government policy without question.
The definition of "Brexit means Brexit" was never agreed so how can you be surprised that there is no agreement?
Finding our own way in the world when it is split into economic and military super powers is foolish. Every mid to all country is trying to organise itself into a grouping or becoming a client state of a superpower.
Giving up our position leading one of the three most powerful groups is strategically crazy.
Leaving will begin the destruction of the UK. This process may already be inevitable now.
There is no successful Brexit so you can add that to your counsel of doom."
And you are making an assumption that leaving will be a disaster! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Here is my perspective, for what it's worth! I am old enough to remember Ted Heath's tory government taking us into the "common market". Within a short space of time, we had butter mountains and milk lakes to starve supply and force prices up. Similar commodities were treated the same way - yet we were told it would be good for us. Normal, every day items became scarce. The apparent frivolous spending on buildings etc to house this common market and all of the staff etc was way beyond the ken of normal working people. Fast forward just over a decade to the Thatcher era and she seduced the working man by telling everyone that they could buy their homes (nothing ever spent to replace all of the "social housing" as we now know it. My father was a miner but during the strike, he wasn't angry at Thatcher, rather it was his own union and Arthur Scargill for not allowing him to vote. He would have followed the outcome of a ballot faithfully and hence the miners were broken.
Fast forward to today and there can be no doubt that within the tory party and its perifery that they are all betting on the outcome - stay or leave - looking to make a killing.
The fact of the matter is, no matter how close, how low or high the turnout is a vote is binding, end off.
It pains me to see all these arguments between leavers and remainers as it is pointless.
Politically this country is broken. Whilst I am a socialist by nature, I cannot justify voting Labour. I would never, ever trust the tories as they are all in it for themselves (rees-mogg makes my blood boil). And I am certainly not a nationalist (how can we ever fit the criteria to be in the eu?).
I want to leave the EU as it seems to be a busted flush and all indications are that it will probably implode in the next decade. But I want to leave as the United Kingdom so that we can find our own way in the world, as we once did. The tories will continue to asset strip the country by selling us off to whoever lines their pockets. Labour will most probably bankrupt us and the snp - well all they've ever wanted was for us to vote for independence until we get it right!
A revolution of some sorts needs to take place but what that looks like, God only knows but somethings got to give!
You have made some assertions about the EU imploding which are only those.
There has been an attempt to adhere to the referendum result, bibutt Parliament reflects the population. It is not its job to back government policy without question.
The definition of "Brexit means Brexit" was never agreed so how can you be surprised that there is no agreement?
Finding our own way in the world when it is split into economic and military super powers is foolish. Every mid to all country is trying to organise itself into a grouping or becoming a client state of a superpower.
Giving up our position leading one of the three most powerful groups is strategically crazy.
Leaving will begin the destruction of the UK. This process may already be inevitable now.
There is no successful Brexit so you can add that to your counsel of doom.
And you are making an assumption that leaving will be a disaster! "
Is anyone seriously arguing that it's not going to be a disaster?
When I say "seriously", I mean anyone with any evidence. IE not just people repeating the lies and or repeating catchphrases. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"Here is my perspective, for what it's worth! I am old enough to remember Ted Heath's tory government taking us into the "common market". Within a short space of time, we had butter mountains and milk lakes to starve supply and force prices up. Similar commodities were treated the same way - yet we were told it would be good for us. Normal, every day items became scarce. The apparent frivolous spending on buildings etc to house this common market and all of the staff etc was way beyond the ken of normal working people. Fast forward just over a decade to the Thatcher era and she seduced the working man by telling everyone that they could buy their homes (nothing ever spent to replace all of the "social housing" as we now know it. My father was a miner but during the strike, he wasn't angry at Thatcher, rather it was his own union and Arthur Scargill for not allowing him to vote. He would have followed the outcome of a ballot faithfully and hence the miners were broken.
Fast forward to today and there can be no doubt that within the tory party and its perifery that they are all betting on the outcome - stay or leave - looking to make a killing.
The fact of the matter is, no matter how close, how low or high the turnout is a vote is binding, end off.
It pains me to see all these arguments between leavers and remainers as it is pointless.
Politically this country is broken. Whilst I am a socialist by nature, I cannot justify voting Labour. I would never, ever trust the tories as they are all in it for themselves (rees-mogg makes my blood boil). And I am certainly not a nationalist (how can we ever fit the criteria to be in the eu?).
I want to leave the EU as it seems to be a busted flush and all indications are that it will probably implode in the next decade. But I want to leave as the United Kingdom so that we can find our own way in the world, as we once did. The tories will continue to asset strip the country by selling us off to whoever lines their pockets. Labour will most probably bankrupt us and the snp - well all they've ever wanted was for us to vote for independence until we get it right!
A revolution of some sorts needs to take place but what that looks like, God only knows but somethings got to give!
You have made some assertions about the EU imploding which are only those.
There has been an attempt to adhere to the referendum result, bibutt Parliament reflects the population. It is not its job to back government policy without question.
The definition of "Brexit means Brexit" was never agreed so how can you be surprised that there is no agreement?
Finding our own way in the world when it is split into economic and military super powers is foolish. Every mid to all country is trying to organise itself into a grouping or becoming a client state of a superpower.
Giving up our position leading one of the three most powerful groups is strategically crazy.
Leaving will begin the destruction of the UK. This process may already be inevitable now.
There is no successful Brexit so you can add that to your counsel of doom.
And you are making an assumption that leaving will be a disaster! "
If you look at the Uk as a single entity, Brexit isn't a positive step. Sure they're individuals and some sectors will benefit but overall it will be a negative step. As to how negative, it depends on the type of brexit. Using the word brexit conceals what leaving the EU actually means. It was a term coined by one of Cameron's advisors as a shorthand term for Britain exiting the EU.
Much of the political chaos since the 2016 referendum has been down working out what does it actually entail. Its not a black & white thing. Brexit means Brexit is in effect gibberish.
Even if Boris gets his majority to get his withdrawal agreement passed by Jan 31, that isn't Brexit done. Its the easy part and look how hard that was to get passed. Next will be the trade agreements and the UK will be against the wall. The EU has been very accommodating of the UK so far. When it comes to the trade negotiations, the UK will be a smaller weaker competitor. The trade negotiations will be done on a tighter deadline. Then there is some 40 odd years of legislation to be replaced, there's workers rights, food standards, environmental regulations, manufacturing standards, health and safety........
To believe that Brexit will be a success is ignoring reality and more a matter of faith by this stage. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Indeed.
The deadline for completion of all the bilaterals, including trade, is December 31, 2020.
That date was set because it marks the start of the new EU financial planning cycle.
As that date nears, and the UK faces the prospect of being out in the cold unless an agreement is reached, who do you think will have the upper hand?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Indeed.
The deadline for completion of all the bilaterals, including trade, is December 31, 2020.
That date was set because it marks the start of the new EU financial planning cycle.
As that date nears, and the UK faces the prospect of being out in the cold unless an agreement is reached, who do you think will have the upper hand?
"
Well if we have learnt anything the eu have bent over backwards to extend the deadline even though macron didnt want to.Saying a no deal would be disastrous for everyone says to me they want to get an agreement too. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
I'm sure they do.
But this is not a negotiation of equals.
And when the deadline is approaching, who will blink first?
By your calculation, Farage is right - this agreement will tie the UK to the EU for ever and day, because the next phase will drag out for years and years.
Vote Brexit Party if you want Brexit.
Vote Conservative if you want to remain in the EU.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"Indeed.
The deadline for completion of all the bilaterals, including trade, is December 31, 2020.
That date was set because it marks the start of the new EU financial planning cycle.
As that date nears, and the UK faces the prospect of being out in the cold unless an agreement is reached, who do you think will have the upper hand?
Well if we have learnt anything the eu have bent over backwards to extend the deadline even though macron didnt want to.Saying a no deal would be disastrous for everyone says to me they want to get an agreement too. "
No deal was the worst possible case scenario for all parties involved. But none more than the UK. And whilst the EU wants to avoid that there has been massive contingency planning on the side of the EU to deal with that possibility.
But Boris has a deal, all he has to do now is get it past parliament, and then negotiations on trade agreements can start. Assuming the bill passes, the UKs relationship with the EU then changes. The UK then becomes a smaller weaker competitor to the EU in trade negotiations. And then there is the ticking clock that can't be negotiated or the UK will default to trading on WTO rules which will be disastrous for UK trade.
Then there is the Americans who will be ruthless, the American trade negotiations in the past has been the US sending an agreement to the other party just looking for a signature. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I'm sure they do.
But this is not a negotiation of equals.
And when the deadline is approaching, who will blink first?
By your calculation, Farage is right - this agreement will tie the UK to the EU for ever and day, because the next phase will drag out for years and years.
Vote Brexit Party if you want Brexit.
Vote Conservative if you want to remain in the EU.
"
not at all we have the choice to walk away after the transition time ends we will also be free to negotiate trade deals with others once we have left.The transition gives us time to do that. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
This is from Business Insider.
Brexit always finds itself in a paradox because it is about emotion not logic, yet tries to continue the pretence.
Remain has the opposite problem but doesn't even try to be emotional because membership of the EU is a purely pragmatic choce.
'Speaking at a meeting of local Conservatives in Northern Ireland on Thursday evening, the prime minister said: "Actually, Northern Ireland has got a great deal. You keep free movement, you keep access to the single market, but you also, as it says in the deal, have unfettered access to [Great Britain]."
This poses a rather obvious question.
If retaining free movement and staying in the single market is such a "great deal" for Northern Ireland, then why has Johnson prioritised a Brexit plan which ensures the rest of the UK is prevented from having that same access and freedom?' |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"How many of them are dead already?
How many will be dead by the time we actually leave?
While the young generation are mostly remain
If they thought it was really the will of the people, we would be allowed a confirmatory vote, ideally without Russian interference."
This has got to be in the top 5 of the thickest excuses for losing in 2016 by whining Remoaners . Can’t your remoaner brain comprehend that if x number of us old people have died we are replaced by the next generation that obviously getting older ? The population age distribution will stay the same ! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"How many of them are dead already?
How many will be dead by the time we actually leave?
While the young generation are mostly remain
If they thought it was really the will of the people, we would be allowed a confirmatory vote, ideally without Russian interference.
This has got to be in the top 5 of the thickest excuses for losing in 2016 by whining Remoaners . Can’t your remoaner brain comprehend that if x number of us old people have died we are replaced by the next generation that obviously getting older ? The population age distribution will stay the same ! "
i bet his mum and dad nan and grandad are really proud of him.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"How many of them are dead already?
How many will be dead by the time we actually leave?
While the young generation are mostly remain
If they thought it was really the will of the people, we would be allowed a confirmatory vote, ideally without Russian interference.
This has got to be in the top 5 of the thickest excuses for losing in 2016 by whining Remoaners . Can’t your remoaner brain comprehend that if x number of us old people have died we are replaced by the next generation that obviously getting older ? The population age distribution will stay the same ! "
I think the assumption is around the younger people who were 15-18 are strongly remain. And the older folks who are no longer with us were mostly leave.
I'm not saying I agree with the assumption. But I that's what they're getting at. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"How many of them are dead already?
How many will be dead by the time we actually leave?
While the young generation are mostly remain
If they thought it was really the will of the people, we would be allowed a confirmatory vote, ideally without Russian interference.
This has got to be in the top 5 of the thickest excuses for losing in 2016 by whining Remoaners . Can’t your remoaner brain comprehend that if x number of us old people have died we are replaced by the next generation that obviously getting older ? The population age distribution will stay the same ! "
You really don't understand this? 
You don't suddenly support Leave the day after your birthday
It's a generational shift. Those who fought in WW2 were strongly in favour of the European integration to ensure the peace amongst other things.
The Baby boomers who grew up watching films about WW2 but benefitted the most from economic and political and military stability don't like the EU.
The younger generation who have grown up with travel and an international group of friends and colleagues are pro-remain.
None of that changes with age.
Way to go not bragging about your ignorance. Great self-own |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Lies, damm lies, and statistics lol
Who pays to use a discount warehouse?
Do you always get your money, as in subscription, back?
On the eu we pay in and effectively except fit the ‘benefits’ of trade get no financial out. So if you could get a free warehouse to buy from, using the analogy here, why would you choose to pay for the same ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Lies, damm lies, and statistics lol
Who pays to use a discount warehouse?
Do you always get your money, as in subscription, back?
On the eu we pay in and effectively except fit the ‘benefits’ of trade get no financial out. So if you could get a free warehouse to buy from, using the analogy here, why would you choose to pay for the same ? "
Are you saying that there is no benefit in all of the international trade deals done from within a large block?
No benefit from common regulations?
No benefit from our internal market being the entire EU rather than just the UK?
No social benefits from diversity and ease of travel and work?
No geopolitical benefit from leading an organisation as strong as the USA or China?
Similar to warehouses in some way. Interesting. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The referendum as a Binary vote was completely flawed anyway as the leave vote was lumped together when clearly there is Nigel Farages leave without a deal pure brexit zealots lumped together with Boris's leave with a deal type voter.
The only way out of this blind alley is to either have a proper 2nd preference vote or leave with the deal on offer as clearly the brexit zealots do not under any circumstances have a mandate to leave without a deal, unless of course the brexit party wins over 50% of the vote in the general election. There it's sorted .........
I was watching an interview with David Liddington last week. He was asked what the EU would be like in 10 years time. His answer? "Totally different to what it is now, but I couldn't tell you in what way or how."
So if David Liddington, a remainer in Government, doesn't know what the EU will be like in even just 10 years, how was the remain vote any different to the leave vote in the number of options to it - we weren't told what the EU would be like in the future because nobody knows."
The simple answer is that the future EU will likely be more attuned to the needs of the UK if the UK is a member of it, than if it's outside of it, though remaining subject to its influence. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
not at all we have the choice to walk away after the transition time ends we will also be free to negotiate trade deals with others once we have left.The transition gives us time to do that."
Three times the Conservative Party had the choice to leave the EU this year and three times they bottled it.
You may be inspired by that record. I'm not.
The Conservative Party is lead by someone who, at heart, believes in Remain. Just like Mrs May.
Welcome to BRINO.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Lies, damm lies, and statistics lol
Who pays to use a discount warehouse?
Do you always get your money, as in subscription, back?
On the eu we pay in and effectively except fit the ‘benefits’ of trade get no financial out. So if you could get a free warehouse to buy from, using the analogy here, why would you choose to pay for the same ?
Are you saying that there is no benefit in all of the international trade deals done from within a large block?
No benefit from common regulations?
No benefit from our internal market being the entire EU rather than just the UK?
No social benefits from diversity and ease of travel and work?
No geopolitical benefit from leading an organisation as strong as the USA or China?
Similar to warehouses in some way. Interesting."
I don't think they're saying any of that.
The posters main point is that they don't understand international trade agreements and don't understand what the EU is and what it does.
But they would buy stuff from a "free warehouse". |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is the amount of people,
Who you could argue voted for brexit
Once you take away the 16+ million from the 17+ million .
you theoretically cancel out an awful lot of the brexit vote.
Can we as a Country of 60+million really be controlled by the will of just over 1 & a quarter million people?
Are you Diane Abbott ?"
LMAO touche |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Lies, damm lies, and statistics lol
Who pays to use a discount warehouse?
Do you always get your money, as in subscription, back?
On the eu we pay in and effectively except fit the ‘benefits’ of trade get no financial out. So if you could get a free warehouse to buy from, using the analogy here, why would you choose to pay for the same ? "
Lies, damed lies, statistics and Boris Johnson lies.
With the first three lies you actually care whether people know you're a liar or not. With the last you don't have enough self respect to care. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
