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Is it time for P R ?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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The lack of response unfortunately leads me to think the time still hasn’t come !
Perhaps the name P R doesn’t help .
I prefer percentage voting !
Get ten percent of the vote get ten per cent of the seats !
Simples ! |
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"Would it not be the right time to have a truly democratic election where every vote has a chance of meaning something ?
You mean like the one with the most votes across the country wins?"
haha, only a political group could turn a simple yes or no into something completely different. Good call ?? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Would it not be the right time to have a truly democratic election where every vote has a chance of meaning something ?
You mean like the one with the most votes across the country wins?"
Yes, but make this one legally binding and not advisory  |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"We had a referendum and the result was no we don't. Personally I think it would be more representative of the national view, but unclear how it works in practice. "
I believe Westminster elections are the only ones still clinging to the first-past-the-post system.
If you look at the elections to devolved and local institutions, all have moved to some form of proportional representation.
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Would it not be the right time to have a truly democratic election where every vote has a chance of meaning something ?
You mean like the one with the most votes across the country wins?
Yes, but make this one legally binding and not advisory "
Oooh oooh oooh! I know, I know!
Here are the options we could put on the ballot paper for it:
Which government do you want?
- This one
- A different one
Then afterwards we can spend years arguing over which one we meant!
Genius!
-Matt |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Here's the dilemma I face on the 12th December. I actually want to leave with the deal on offer, crappy though it may and Half way house Bla Bla Bla, I know all the arguments so don't start on that, This thread is not about Brexit.
Hang on..... hear me out. The trouble is I would like to vote for a party that wants PR which is the liberal democrats but......... the stupid twits now are outright remain with not even the senseless people's vote on the table. So where does that leave me. Probably not bothering to vote and leave it up to someone else I guess.
My guess is there will be an awful lot of people in the same boat as me. Fricking politicians, they are all an absolute bunch of tossers if you ask me. |
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"Would it not be the right time to have a truly democratic election where every vote has a chance of meaning something ?"
Yes. However, Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland would have to be independent countries for the fairness you seek to apply.
In a PR UK, votes in these countries, in a GE, would have even less impact on the result than they already do. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Here's the dilemma I face on the 12th December. I actually want to leave with the deal on offer, crappy though it may and Half way house Bla Bla Bla, I know all the arguments so don't start on that, This thread is not about Brexit.
Hang on..... hear me out. The trouble is I would like to vote for a party that wants PR which is the liberal democrats but......... the stupid twits now are outright remain with not even the senseless people's vote on the table. So where does that leave me. Probably not bothering to vote and leave it up to someone else I guess.
My guess is there will be an awful lot of people in the same boat as me. Fricking politicians, they are all an absolute bunch of tossers if you ask me."
That's one reason why Brexit should be sorted out before a general election. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Here's the dilemma I face on the 12th December. I actually want to leave with the deal on offer, crappy though it may and Half way house Bla Bla Bla, I know all the arguments so don't start on that, This thread is not about Brexit.
Hang on..... hear me out. The trouble is I would like to vote for a party that wants PR which is the liberal democrats but......... the stupid twits now are outright remain with not even the senseless people's vote on the table. So where does that leave me. Probably not bothering to vote and leave it up to someone else I guess.
My guess is there will be an awful lot of people in the same boat as me. Fricking politicians, they are all an absolute bunch of tossers if you ask me.
That's one reason why Brexit should be sorted out before a general election. "
Yep and with a 2nd preference vote. A binary "peoples vote" will not solve it. It just reinforces the previous botch job referendum. |
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"Here's the dilemma I face on the 12th December. I actually want to leave with the deal on offer, crappy though it may and Half way house Bla Bla Bla, I know all the arguments so don't start on that, This thread is not about Brexit.
Hang on..... hear me out. The trouble is I would like to vote for a party that wants PR which is the liberal democrats but......... the stupid twits now are outright remain with not even the senseless people's vote on the table. So where does that leave me. Probably not bothering to vote and leave it up to someone else I guess.
My guess is there will be an awful lot of people in the same boat as me. Fricking politicians, they are all an absolute bunch of tossers if you ask me."
I have no intention of listening to any election debate from now till we vote. They all talk shit and tell porkies anyway. My mind is made up already. I will vote for the party that offers leave...end of.... The rest can fuck off as I cannot forgive any of them. I'm looking forward to tomorrow now when that twisted little git Bercow goes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have no intention of listening to any election debate from now till we vote. They all talk shit and tell porkies anyway. My mind is made up already. I will vote for the party that offers leave...end of.... The rest can fuck off "
It's a little worrying so many people have this view, don't care about anything other than Brexit.
I wonder if Brexit would be worth it if you found out after the election, whoever you voted for and they got into power that they had in their manifesto to make everything transgender etc illegal
Obviously a massive exaggeration but the underlying principle stands valid.
Would Brexit still be worth it to you? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Here's the dilemma I face on the 12th December. I actually want to leave with the deal on offer, crappy though it may and Half way house Bla Bla Bla, I know all the arguments so don't start on that, This thread is not about Brexit.
Hang on..... hear me out. The trouble is I would like to vote for a party that wants PR which is the liberal democrats but......... the stupid twits now are outright remain with not even the senseless people's vote on the table. So where does that leave me. Probably not bothering to vote and leave it up to someone else I guess.
My guess is there will be an awful lot of people in the same boat as me. Fricking politicians, they are all an absolute bunch of tossers if you ask me.I have no intention of listening to any election debate from now till we vote. They all talk shit and tell porkies anyway. My mind is made up already. I will vote for the party that offers leave...end of.... The rest can fuck off as I cannot forgive any of them. I'm looking forward to tomorrow now when that twisted little git Bercow goes. "
hmmmm fair enough but that crappy referendum lumped you in with people like me didn't it ? Wishy washy left of centre ites that can't make their mind up LOL. Me thinks you might be rather disappointed on the 13th December. I know I already am  and is why I am so fed up of it just as much as you are. Yep agreed, best thing to do is switch of Telly and like always I'll make my mind up at the very last second with my trembling pencil on the 12th December or maybe I wont. tbh I hardly care any more, it's all so fucking stupid. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"We had a referendum and the result was no we don't. Personally I think it would be more representative of the national view, but unclear how it works in practice. "
No we didn’t that was a stupid mush mash not true percentage voting !
It was a farce referendum , proved by the fact some people think it was about or ! |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Would it not be the right time to have a truly democratic election where every vote has a chance of meaning something ?
You mean like the one with the most votes across the country wins?
Yes, but make this one legally binding and not advisory "
Or, you could make it advisory, then when it doesn't go your way pass an act making it binding, then spend all your time trying to find a way out of doing what you've just put into law. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Would it not be the right time to have a truly democratic election where every vote has a chance of meaning something ?
You mean like the one with the most votes across the country wins?"
Exactly !!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Here's the dilemma I face on the 12th December. I actually want to leave with the deal on offer, crappy though it may and Half way house Bla Bla Bla, I know all the arguments so don't start on that, This thread is not about Brexit.
Hang on..... hear me out. The trouble is I would like to vote for a party that wants PR which is the liberal democrats but......... the stupid twits now are outright remain with not even the senseless people's vote on the table. So where does that leave me. Probably not bothering to vote and leave it up to someone else I guess.
My guess is there will be an awful lot of people in the same boat as me. Fricking politicians, they are all an absolute bunch of tossers if you ask me.I have no intention of listening to any election debate from now till we vote. They all talk shit and tell porkies anyway. My mind is made up already. I will vote for the party that offers leave...end of.... The rest can fuck off as I cannot forgive any of them. I'm looking forward to tomorrow now when that twisted little git Bercow goes. "
So angry, so bitter. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Would it not be the right time to have a truly democratic election where every vote has a chance of meaning something ?
You mean like the one with the most votes across the country wins?
Yes, but make this one legally binding and not advisory
Or, you could make it advisory, then when it doesn't go your way pass an act making it binding, then spend all your time trying to find a way out of doing what you've just put into law."
Or you could just make it legally binding from the start  |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"I have no intention of listening to any election debate from now till we vote. They all talk shit and tell porkies anyway. My mind is made up already. I will vote for the party that offers leave...end of.... The rest can fuck off
It's a little worrying so many people have this view, don't care about anything other than Brexit.
I wonder if Brexit would be worth it if you found out after the election, whoever you voted for and they got into power that they had in their manifesto to make everything transgender etc illegal
Obviously a massive exaggeration but the underlying principle stands valid.
Would Brexit still be worth it to you? "
Tbh, Parliament has done nothing but talk about Brexit for the last 3 1/2 years..... Now MPs are saying that the election should not be about Brexit... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Here's the dilemma I face on the 12th December. I actually want to leave with the deal on offer, crappy though it may and Half way house Bla Bla Bla, I know all the arguments so don't start on that, This thread is not about Brexit.
Hang on..... hear me out. The trouble is I would like to vote for a party that wants PR which is the liberal democrats but......... the stupid twits now are outright remain with not even the senseless people's vote on the table. So where does that leave me. Probably not bothering to vote and leave it up to someone else I guess.
My guess is there will be an awful lot of people in the same boat as me. Fricking politicians, they are all an absolute bunch of tossers if you ask me."
the irony is that the present system saved them last time !
Fact is under our system too many votes don’t count ! |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Would it not be the right time to have a truly democratic election where every vote has a chance of meaning something ?
Yes. However, Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland would have to be independent countries for the fairness you seek to apply.
In a PR UK, votes in these countries, in a GE, would have even less impact on the result than they already do."
So you think there should be more representation per person for countries with a smaller population? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The problem with PR is the left and right would lose out so they are in no hurry to push for it .I do think the public would now endorse it."
Agreed , because labour and cons only care about thier own party’s !
What people fail to realise is that under a straight percentage vote a Scotsman living in London could vote SNP or a Tory in Belfast could vote conservative . Democracy !
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The problem with PR is the left and right would lose out so they are in no hurry to push for it .I do think the public would now endorse it.
Agreed , because labour and cons only care about thier own party’s !
What people fail to realise is that under a straight percentage vote a Scotsman living in London could vote SNP or a Tory in Belfast could vote conservative . Democracy !
"
I dont agree with a lot of what you post but I rather like your thinking here - could be the return of the monster raving loony party to democracy? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Would it not be the right time to have a truly democratic election where every vote has a chance of meaning something ?
Yes. However, Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland would have to be independent countries for the fairness you seek to apply.
In a PR UK, votes in these countries, in a GE, would have even less impact on the result than they already do."
Not necessarily as it would enable Scots living in n Ireland wales England to vote for them !
Tho I would also recommend an independence poll at the same time ! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The problem with PR is the left and right would lose out so they are in no hurry to push for it .I do think the public would now endorse it.
Agreed , because labour and cons only care about thier own party’s !
What people fail to realise is that under a straight percentage vote a Scotsman living in London could vote SNP or a Tory in Belfast could vote conservative . Democracy !
I dont agree with a lot of what you post but I rather like your thinking here - could be the return of the monster raving loony party to democracy? "
If that’s what people want bring it on ! |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"We had a referendum and the result was no we don't. Personally I think it would be more representative of the national view, but unclear how it works in practice. "
Probably even more chaos than we have now
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Don’t see why we would have chaos !
How can every vote counting for something be chaos ?
It’s called Democracy !
Do we want to be like the Yanks where the Democrats got 3 million more votes but lost to Trump !
It could happen here !
Under our system the loser can Win ! |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The system we have for Westminster is adversarial and confrontational.
All about one party winning complete power with fewer than half the votes.
Even the design of the House of Commons is adversarial - the sword lengths between the opposing front benches just encourages braying.
One thing PR does is foster compromise and coalition. It prevents domination by one party at the expense of all other views.
It works in Europe, it works here in the devolved administrations, but Westminster unfortunately is obsessive about winning control to the exclusion of all others.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We had a referendum and the result was no we don't. Personally I think it would be more representative of the national view, but unclear how it works in practice. Probably even more chaos than we have now"
How? |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Here's the dilemma I face on the 12th December. I actually want to leave with the deal on offer, crappy though it may and Half way house Bla Bla Bla, I know all the arguments so don't start on that, This thread is not about Brexit.
Hang on..... hear me out. The trouble is I would like to vote for a party that wants PR which is the liberal democrats but......... the stupid twits now are outright remain with not even the senseless people's vote on the table. So where does that leave me. Probably not bothering to vote and leave it up to someone else I guess.
My guess is there will be an awful lot of people in the same boat as me. Fricking politicians, they are all an absolute bunch of tossers if you ask me."
Indeed. I’m in similar but opposite position. I want to vote Lib Dem in terms of their support for remaining in the EU, but tactically will be voting labour as best chance to get the Tories out.
But no doubt pundits will then claim that my vote for labour implies I support leave in some way.
This is the problem with using a GE to answer a single question. This is why we should be having a referendum instead.
-Matt |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Here's the dilemma I face on the 12th December. I actually want to leave with the deal on offer, crappy though it may and Half way house Bla Bla Bla, I know all the arguments so don't start on that, This thread is not about Brexit.
Hang on..... hear me out. The trouble is I would like to vote for a party that wants PR which is the liberal democrats but......... the stupid twits now are outright remain with not even the senseless people's vote on the table. So where does that leave me. Probably not bothering to vote and leave it up to someone else I guess.
My guess is there will be an awful lot of people in the same boat as me. Fricking politicians, they are all an absolute bunch of tossers if you ask me.
Indeed. I’m in similar but opposite position. I want to vote Lib Dem in terms of their support for remaining in the EU, but tactically will be voting labour as best chance to get the Tories out.
But no doubt pundits will then claim that my vote for labour implies I support leave in some way.
This is the problem with using a GE to answer a single question. This is why we should be having a referendum instead.
-Matt"
We should be having both at the same time see my Super Election Thread ?? |
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