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How will Brexit benefit you?
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"it wont make a blind bit of difference to my life" Do you ever travel to Europe?? | |||
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"it wont make a blind bit of difference to my life Do you ever travel to Europe??" not for the last decade i aint no.prefer to go further afield these days.if i travel now its to other continents.europe is becoming wqy to expensive for what it is and has been for years.have done the far east and north america the last few years aus. nz .or south america nxt for me.see im used to getting visas and going through immagration its not really a big deal | |||
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"it wont make a blind bit of difference to my life Do you ever travel to Europe?? not for the last decade i aint no.prefer to go further afield these days.if i travel now its to other continents.europe is becoming wqy to expensive for what it is and has been for years.have done the far east and north america the last few years aus. nz .or south america nxt for me.see im used to getting visas and going through immagration its not really a big deal" Fair enough | |||
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"it wont make a blind bit of difference to my life Do you ever travel to Europe?? not for the last decade i aint no.prefer to go further afield these days.if i travel now its to other continents.europe is becoming wqy to expensive for what it is and has been for years.have done the far east and north america the last few years aus. nz .or south america nxt for me.see im used to getting visas and going through immagration its not really a big deal" Of course if the pound keeps falling then your trips to far flung locations will also be more expensive. | |||
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"it wont make a blind bit of difference to my life Do you ever travel to Europe?? not for the last decade i aint no.prefer to go further afield these days.if i travel now its to other continents.europe is becoming wqy to expensive for what it is and has been for years.have done the far east and north america the last few years aus. nz .or south america nxt for me.see im used to getting visas and going through immagration its not really a big deal Of course if the pound keeps falling then your trips to far flung locations will also be more expensive." Workers rights, chlorinated chicken, water quality. Its all good , I suppose. | |||
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"it wont make a blind bit of difference to my life" Or do you have a job? Or ever buy things like food? | |||
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"it wont make a blind bit of difference to my life Or do you have a job? Or ever buy things like food?" yea i have a job we didnt get touched by the recession either high class stuff we sell and the peeps that can afford it have money to burn and as for food do u really think we will be like the ussr with empty shelves just like leavers beliving everything there told remainers suffer with the same condition i think you will find the truth somewhere inbetween both lots of bollox | |||
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"The only thing that will happen is the cost of food and goods that we buy in the supermarket " This is not a benefit but an extra living cost  | |||
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"It won't benefit me but I knew that when I voted to leave but I don't travel abroad so probably not as much as I thought" So how can you vote for something that is not beneficial?  | |||
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"It won't benefit me but I knew that when I voted to leave but I don't travel abroad so probably not as much as I thought So how can you vote for something that is not beneficial? "because I looked at the longer view and not just for me | |||
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"it wont make a blind bit of difference to my life Do you ever travel to Europe?? not for the last decade i aint no.prefer to go further afield these days.if i travel now its to other continents.europe is becoming wqy to expensive for what it is and has been for years.have done the far east and north america the last few years aus. nz .or south america nxt for me.see im used to getting visas and going through immagration its not really a big deal Of course if the pound keeps falling then your trips to far flung locations will also be more expensive." thats why i thinking s america nice and cheap mabey a bit dangerous but thats half the fun | |||
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"It won't benefit me but I knew that when I voted to leave but I don't travel abroad so probably not as much as I thought So how can you vote for something that is not beneficial? "also It doesn't have to benefit me I look at the bigger picture | |||
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"it wont make a blind bit of difference to my life Do you ever travel to Europe?? not for the last decade i aint no.prefer to go further afield these days.if i travel now its to other continents.europe is becoming wqy to expensive for what it is and has been for years.have done the far east and north america the last few years aus. nz .or south america nxt for me.see im used to getting visas and going through immagration its not really a big deal Of course if the pound keeps falling then your trips to far flung locations will also be more expensive. Workers rights, chlorinated chicken, water quality. Its all good , I suppose." have prob already eaten the chicken and gm foods wen in the u.s anyway and nothing extra has grown or fallen off and hows leaving the e.u gona change the quality of water? | |||
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"This is a genuine and simple question. If you think Brexit will benefit you, how do you think it will benefit you? I'm not looking to pick fights or fling mud. I genuinely want to understand what leavers think they will personally gain from Brexit. I can't see any benefits for the public or the country. Am I wrong? If so, why?" I lost my main research job due to horizon 2020 deciding not to renew the funding contract. I'm lucky, I had a back up asset, and got head hunted by the public sector which replaced that contract. I don't like what I'm doing 3 days of the week though, so I lost a dream job, and have taken a significant hit to my annual income and pension contributions. Helping the little man my arse, I grew up on a council estate and worked hard to get in a good profession, brexit is making it hard to progress. | |||
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"It will degrade my life and millions more, so can't ethically consider it. " How??? | |||
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"The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU. Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like." The question was why did you vote to leave the EU. Not why do you want to leave the UK. -Matt | |||
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"It will benefit us all in time I am sure,we will once again have idendity and pride,ok not at first but in the long run. I will know that when a new law is passed it is a British ,law and not a euro law. I also look forward to proving so many of you moaners wrong. As for going to Europe will holiday there as allways it will make no difference.I went to Europe before we joined the EU and nothing has changed exept the euro is convenient just glad we never had it and never will. " It will be interesting if someone has an actual response that is not just blind optimism based on nothing but thin air. -Matt | |||
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"As an "employer" , I'll be able to cut wages, not have to doll out sick or holiday pay, cut maternity leave to zero, persecute union types, BAN any toilet breaks whatsoever, close the canteen & my slaves will worship me for my understanding of humame interaction.. Thin/ undernourished persons only please, I have a side line in clearing industrial chimneys underground ducting &, sewers.. " You an domme, then?  | |||
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"The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU. Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like. The question was why did you vote to leave the EU. Not why do you want to leave the UK. -Matt" Exactly the same - though I didn't know about the plans for the EU army then. | |||
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"The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU. Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like. The question was why did you vote to leave the EU. Not why do you want to leave the UK. -Matt Exactly the same - though I didn't know about the plans for the EU army then. " But everything you have described is under control of the U.K. govt. So I’m not sure if you’ve understood the question. The question is what are the benefits of leaving the EU. Not the U.K. -Matt | |||
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Only drawback is the embroidered velvet gloves i leave behind as a trade mark will be more expensive  | |||
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"It will benefit us all in time I am sure,we will once again have idendity and pride,ok not at first but in the long run. " Why don't you have identity or pride, I do but don't know why you don't..... | |||
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"The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU. Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like. The question was why did you vote to leave the EU. Not why do you want to leave the UK. -Matt Exactly the same - though I didn't know about the plans for the EU army then. " Which we'd have to say yes to for it to become real | |||
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"As an "employer" , I'll be able to cut wages, not have to doll out sick or holiday pay, cut maternity leave to zero, persecute union types, BAN any toilet breaks whatsoever, close the canteen & my slaves will worship me for my understanding of humame interaction.. Thin/ undernourished persons only please, I have a side line in clearing industrial chimneys underground ducting &, sewers.. " Was the EU responsible for our minimum wage? Was the EU responsible for inroducing sick and holiday pay? Was it the EU resposible for giving women maternity leave? Most of our workers rights were brought in between the mid 1950s to the early 1980s. Thank the unions for them, not politicians. Rights have been eroded since the mid eighties to the benefit of big corporations. This has been allowed to happen under the watchful eye of the EU. The EU is as good for the workers as Uncle Joe was for the Russians. As someone mentioned water, if you were given a choice of an EU countries tap water to drink from, for the rest of your life. Which would you pick? | |||
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"It will benefit us all in time I am sure,we will once again have idendity and pride,ok not at first but in the long run. I will know that when a new law is passed it is a British ,law and not a euro law. I also look forward to proving so many of you moaners wrong. As for going to Europe will holiday there as allways it will make no difference.I went to Europe before we joined the EU and nothing has changed exept the euro is convenient just glad we never had it and never will. It will be interesting if someone has an actual response that is not just blind optimism based on nothing but thin air. -Matt"  | |||
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"As someone mentioned water, if you were given a choice of an EU countries tap water to drink from, for the rest of your life. Which would you pick?" Denmark. | |||
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"The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU. Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like." Utter bollocks. Your level of knowledge about UK and EU is tragic. But I am not surprised at all | |||
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"The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU. Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like." You've heard of the House of Lords, right? That group of unelected officials that effect our laws and lives in hugely influential ways? I do t think the EU is perfect, but to ditch it seems naive. Certainly when there are enough powerful people in Britain who will work to dissolve legislation that protects the environment, workers rights etc. A resulting system with inevitable decreases in regulation will make life worse for a lot of people that are already struggling. | |||
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"The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU. Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like. " Dear oh dear, I think someone has been telling porkies. It sounds great though, will you have concorde again, minus the french bits of course | |||
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"Water quality in your tap, inland waterways and surrounding coasts have all been improved by European Directives requiring members to eliminate certain practices and maintain and measure standards standards. For example, the practice of pumping raw untreated sewage has been eliminated due to the implementation EU directives. Wastewater treatment has also been improved. Consent to discharge permits are also better regulated thanks to EU directives." I don’t understand the negative view that as we leave the Eu we will erode workers rights or environmental controls, this will need us to vote parties manifestos repeatedly so unless we as a nation decide we want to take a different path this won’t happen. You may be super productive and loving the opportunities available, we have lived abroad, I have a degree and an association to a professional body, so I guess I’m a professional but in the wider world of everyday life what do I know, My opinion, let’s go for it. | |||
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"This is a genuine and simple question. If you think Brexit will benefit you, how do you think it will benefit you? I'm not looking to pick fights or fling mud. I genuinely want to understand what leavers think they will personally gain from Brexit. I can't see any benefits for the public or the country. Am I wrong? If so, why?" There are no benefits from leaving the EU. Any benefits brexiters talk about and write come from the world of fantasy and are unrealistic. Only the richest will benefit from brexit (they already have the benefits of this chaos). The richest have been making big money on brexit for the past three years. | |||
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"The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU. Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like. The question was why did you vote to leave the EU. Not why do you want to leave the UK. -Matt Exactly the same - though I didn't know about the plans for the EU army then. But everything you have described is under control of the U.K. govt. So I’m not sure if you’ve understood the question. The question is what are the benefits of leaving the EU. Not the U.K. -Matt " You are mistaken, nothing I have mentioned is in control on the UK Gov or about them. | |||
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 and have have plenty of fun since with women I probably wouldn’t have met otherwise. But still...... | |||
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"The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU. Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like. The question was why did you vote to leave the EU. Not why do you want to leave the UK. -Matt Exactly the same - though I didn't know about the plans for the EU army then. Which we'd have to say yes to for it to become real " Oh it will become real, with or without us - hopefully without if we ever manage to escape. And I have no doubt it will sooner or later be deployed in Europe. | |||
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"As an "employer" , I'll be able to cut wages, not have to doll out sick or holiday pay, cut maternity leave to zero, persecute union types, BAN any toilet breaks whatsoever, close the canteen & my slaves will worship me for my understanding of humame interaction.. Thin/ undernourished persons only please, I have a side line in clearing industrial chimneys underground ducting &, sewers.. Was the EU responsible for our minimum wage? Was the EU responsible for inroducing sick and holiday pay? Was it the EU resposible for giving women maternity leave? Most of our workers rights were brought in between the mid 1950s to the early 1980s. Thank the unions for them, not politicians. Rights have been eroded since the mid eighties to the benefit of big corporations. This has been allowed to happen under the watchful eye of the EU. The EU is as good for the workers as Uncle Joe was for the Russians. As someone mentioned water, if you were given a choice of an EU countries tap water to drink from, for the rest of your life. Which would you pick? " Our rights are better than the EU, we lead their standards, not the other way around. | |||
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"The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU. Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like. Utter bollocks. Your level of knowledge about UK and EU is tragic. But I am not surprised at all "My knowledge is fine thanks, been living and working in the UK and EU a long time and observed it all over 40 years. | |||
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"The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU. Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like. Utter bollocks. Your level of knowledge about UK and EU is tragic. But I am not surprised at all
My knowledge is fine thanks, been living and working in the UK and EU a long time and observed it all over 40 years."It's cool but it smells of hypocrisy | |||
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"For starters, our NHS will be better off by “£350 million a week”. It MUST be true, I read it on the side of a bus..." Was it a red bus with an unkept clown? | |||
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"Unfortunately once we’ve left they’ll realise it was never the eu that caused the sink estates and zero hours contracts." Actually I believe the UK is the only EU country left with zero hour contracts? | |||
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"The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU. Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like. Utter bollocks. Your level of knowledge about UK and EU is tragic. But I am not surprised at all
My knowledge is fine thanks, been living and working in the UK and EU a long time and observed it all over 40 years.
It's cool but it smells of hypocrisy "I don't do hypocrisy. | |||
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"The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU. Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like. Utter bollocks. Your level of knowledge about UK and EU is tragic. But I am not surprised at all
My knowledge is fine thanks, been living and working in the UK and EU a long time and observed it all over 40 years.
It's cool but it smells of hypocrisy
I don't do hypocrisy."After winning the leaving EU the country is full of hypocrites and hypocrisy. And this is also not a benefit for the country. Your heroes are lying to you all the time and still and they lie all the time and you still believe in this shit. You keep repeating the same benefits that are not and never will be. It's time to get down on the earth and start thinking sober. Get a grip. | |||
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"The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU. Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like. Utter bollocks. Your level of knowledge about UK and EU is tragic. But I am not surprised at all
My knowledge is fine thanks, been living and working in the UK and EU a long time and observed it all over 40 years.
It's cool but it smells of hypocrisy "In all the time the UK was in the EU, parliament was sovereign. Can you tell me a time when this wasn't the case. Similarly tell me a time when the UK couldn't decide it's foreign policy. The only time I can think of was the Suez crisis when America told Aden that gunboat diplomacy was a no go and used financial incentives to achieve this. But I cannot remember when the EU made the UK change its foreign policy. Tell me who is unelected in the EU? Do you think its a monarchy? With regard to aggressive military schemes, please tell me more, when were british forces used in the pursuance of EU policy? The lisbon treaty raised animal welfare standards, leaving the EU will make nigh impossible for British meat to be sold in Europe as it will have 3rd country status. The UK is now part of a trading block of about 513 million people. When you leave you will be one average size country of 66 million people against a trading block (competitors) of 447 million people. - In the real world this shows that you will never be able to get “better trade deals” than your big competitor next door. Remember that you are going to make the trade deals with the same countries that the EU already has trade deals The moment the UK leaves the EU it will be a competitor to the EU, how do you think the UK can compete against the EU? If possible facts will bolster your argument rather than beliefs. Belief without facts is called faith. Faith as you know, is generally found in religions when people believe in things they cannot prove With regard to your blue passport, as it currently stands freedom of movement will end at the transition period which is dec 2020. I think the blue passport will actually be made in france, yep google confirms this. | |||
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"How will it affect you just as important of a question" Affect or benefits? And the answer is very simple. There are no benefits but a lot of negative impacts. Each question has different answers. | |||
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"The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU. Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like. Utter bollocks. Your level of knowledge about UK and EU is tragic. But I am not surprised at all
My knowledge is fine thanks, been living and working in the UK and EU a long time and observed it all over 40 years.
It's cool but it smells of hypocrisy
In all the time the UK was in the EU, parliament was sovereign. Can you tell me a time when this wasn't the case.
Similarly tell me a time when the UK couldn't decide it's foreign policy. The only time I can think of was the Suez crisis when America told Aden that gunboat diplomacy was a no go and used financial incentives to achieve this. But I cannot remember when the EU made the UK change its foreign policy.
Tell me who is unelected in the EU? Do you think its a monarchy?
With regard to aggressive military schemes, please tell me more, when were british forces used in the pursuance of EU policy?
The lisbon treaty raised animal welfare standards, leaving the EU will make nigh impossible for British meat to be sold in Europe as it will have 3rd country status.
The UK is now part of a trading block of about 513 million people. When you leave you will be one average size country of 66 million people against a trading block (competitors) of 447 million people. - In the real world this shows that you will never be able to get “better trade deals” than your big competitor next door. Remember that you are going to make the trade deals with the same countries that the EU already has trade deals
The moment the UK leaves the EU it will be a competitor to the EU, how do you think the UK can compete against the EU?
If possible facts will bolster your argument rather than beliefs. Belief without facts is called faith. Faith as you know, is generally found in religions when people believe in things they cannot prove
With regard to your blue passport, as it currently stands freedom of movement will end at the transition period which is dec 2020. I think the blue passport will actually be made in france, yep google confirms this."They don't understand the answers to these questions, which are very good but unfortunately incomprehensible to them | |||
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"Oh it will become real, with or without us - hopefully without if we ever manage to escape. And I have no doubt it will sooner or later be deployed in Europe." No, it could not become real with the UK still in the EU, the US told the UK to veto it, to protect their influence in NATO. All other NATO members in the EU think they can do the job better than the US for cheaper, and getting every EU member to join up will make movements of troops within the EU much faster than NATO could ever do. I appreciate that could be scary for British people, having to go to war and die for something other than American oil, but it doesnt bother the rest of the EU. | |||
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"That's a loooooot of replies. Thank you. My original question was about what benefits leavers thought Brexit would bring. I asked that specifically because, as far as I can tell, the supposed benefits have been thoroughly debunked or proved false. I was curious what benefits leavers still believed in and why they believe in them. I think there's a real problem when opposite sides just try to shout each other down. That's why I'm trying to be civil and listen to why leavers still believe certain things." The problem is that leavers still believe in fantasy. | |||
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"That's a loooooot of replies. Thank you. My original question was about what benefits leavers thought Brexit would bring. I asked that specifically because, as far as I can tell, the supposed benefits have been thoroughly debunked or proved false. I was curious what benefits leavers still believed in and why they believe in them. I think there's a real problem when opposite sides just try to shout each other down. That's why I'm trying to be civil and listen to why leavers still believe certain things. The problem is that leavers still believe in fantasy. " no just democracy | |||
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"The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU. Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like. Utter bollocks. Your level of knowledge about UK and EU is tragic. But I am not surprised at all
My knowledge is fine thanks, been living and working in the UK and EU a long time and observed it all over 40 years.
It's cool but it smells of hypocrisy
I don't do hypocrisy.
After winning the leaving EU the country is full of hypocrites and hypocrisy. And this is also not a benefit for the country. Your heroes are lying to you all the time and still and they lie all the time and you still believe in this shit. You keep repeating the same benefits that are not and never will be. It's time to get down on the earth and start thinking sober. Get a grip. "What heroes? I have no heroes, I have wanted to leave the EU for 30 odd years based on my own observations. You seem to lack understanding. | |||
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"The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU. Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like. Utter bollocks. Your level of knowledge about UK and EU is tragic. But I am not surprised at all
My knowledge is fine thanks, been living and working in the UK and EU a long time and observed it all over 40 years.
It's cool but it smells of hypocrisy
In all the time the UK was in the EU, parliament was sovereign. Can you tell me a time when this wasn't the case.
Similarly tell me a time when the UK couldn't decide it's foreign policy. The only time I can think of was the Suez crisis when America told Aden that gunboat diplomacy was a no go and used financial incentives to achieve this. But I cannot remember when the EU made the UK change its foreign policy.
Tell me who is unelected in the EU? Do you think its a monarchy?
With regard to aggressive military schemes, please tell me more, when were british forces used in the pursuance of EU policy?
The lisbon treaty raised animal welfare standards, leaving the EU will make nigh impossible for British meat to be sold in Europe as it will have 3rd country status.
The UK is now part of a trading block of about 513 million people. When you leave you will be one average size country of 66 million people against a trading block (competitors) of 447 million people. - In the real world this shows that you will never be able to get “better trade deals” than your big competitor next door. Remember that you are going to make the trade deals with the same countries that the EU already has trade deals
The moment the UK leaves the EU it will be a competitor to the EU, how do you think the UK can compete against the EU?
If possible facts will bolster your argument rather than beliefs. Belief without facts is called faith. Faith as you know, is generally found in religions when people believe in things they cannot prove
With regard to your blue passport, as it currently stands freedom of movement will end at the transition period which is dec 2020. I think the blue passport will actually be made in france, yep google confirms this."QED. | |||
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"That's a loooooot of replies. Thank you. My original question was about what benefits leavers thought Brexit would bring. I asked that specifically because, as far as I can tell, the supposed benefits have been thoroughly debunked or proved false. I was curious what benefits leavers still believed in and why they believe in them. I think there's a real problem when opposite sides just try to shout each other down. That's why I'm trying to be civil and listen to why leavers still believe certain things. The problem is that leavers still believe in fantasy. no just democracy "For you democracy is based on lies? Congratulations on your idea of ??democracy | |||
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"That's a loooooot of replies. Thank you. My original question was about what benefits leavers thought Brexit would bring. I asked that specifically because, as far as I can tell, the supposed benefits have been thoroughly debunked or proved false. I was curious what benefits leavers still believed in and why they believe in them. I think there's a real problem when opposite sides just try to shout each other down. That's why I'm trying to be civil and listen to why leavers still believe certain things. The problem is that leavers still believe in fantasy. " Nah, it's remoaners denying truth. | |||
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"That's a loooooot of replies. Thank you. My original question was about what benefits leavers thought Brexit would bring. I asked that specifically because, as far as I can tell, the supposed benefits have been thoroughly debunked or proved false. I was curious what benefits leavers still believed in and why they believe in them. I think there's a real problem when opposite sides just try to shout each other down. That's why I'm trying to be civil and listen to why leavers still believe certain things. The problem is that leavers still believe in fantasy. no just democracy
For you democracy is based on lies? Congratulations on your idea of ??democracy "so what if it was I voted out knowing it would probably hurt me but don't give a fook I've never known a politician tell the truth most don't even use there proper name but we won | |||
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"That's a loooooot of replies. Thank you. My original question was about what benefits leavers thought Brexit would bring. I asked that specifically because, as far as I can tell, the supposed benefits have been thoroughly debunked or proved false. I was curious what benefits leavers still believed in and why they believe in them. I think there's a real problem when opposite sides just try to shout each other down. That's why I'm trying to be civil and listen to why leavers still believe certain things. The problem is that leavers still believe in fantasy. no just democracy
For you democracy is based on lies? Congratulations on your idea of ??democracy "so suck it up buttercup | |||
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"Can we try to keep this focussed on the original question? (Worth a try.)" None of my points have been debunked or proven false - they cannot be, they are true. | |||
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"That's a loooooot of replies. Thank you. My original question was about what benefits leavers thought Brexit would bring. I asked that specifically because, as far as I can tell, the supposed benefits have been thoroughly debunked or proved false. I was curious what benefits leavers still believed in and why they believe in them. I think there's a real problem when opposite sides just try to shout each other down. That's why I'm trying to be civil and listen to why leavers still believe certain things. The problem is that leavers still believe in fantasy. no just democracy
For you democracy is based on lies? Congratulations on your idea of ??democracy so what if it was I voted out knowing it would probably hurt me but don't give a fook I've never known a politician tell the truth most don't even use there proper name but we won "So why did you vote out? You just said you knew it'd prob hurt you. What was the benefit you were hoping for? And do you still you will get that benefit? | |||
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"Can we try to keep this focussed on the original question? (Worth a try.) None of my points have been debunked or proven false - they cannot be, they are true. "It's been a long thread. What benefits did you think Brexit would give you? And do you still think you will get those benefits? | |||
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"Can we try to keep this focussed on the original question? (Worth a try.) None of my points have been debunked or proven false - they cannot be, they are true.
It's been a long thread. What benefits did you think Brexit would give you? And do you still think you will get those benefits?"My answer was as follows: "The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU. Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like. But no, the current deal will not fully provide these, nor restore control of our fish stocks. | |||
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"The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU. Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like. Utter bollocks. Your level of knowledge about UK and EU is tragic. But I am not surprised at all
My knowledge is fine thanks, been living and working in the UK and EU a long time and observed it all over 40 years.
It's cool but it smells of hypocrisy
In all the time the UK was in the EU, parliament was sovereign. Can you tell me a time when this wasn't the case.
Similarly tell me a time when the UK couldn't decide it's foreign policy. The only time I can think of was the Suez crisis when America told Aden that gunboat diplomacy was a no go and used financial incentives to achieve this. But I cannot remember when the EU made the UK change its foreign policy.
Tell me who is unelected in the EU? Do you think its a monarchy?
With regard to aggressive military schemes, please tell me more, when were british forces used in the pursuance of EU policy?
The lisbon treaty raised animal welfare standards, leaving the EU will make nigh impossible for British meat to be sold in Europe as it will have 3rd country status.
The UK is now part of a trading block of about 513 million people. When you leave you will be one average size country of 66 million people against a trading block (competitors) of 447 million people. - In the real world this shows that you will never be able to get “better trade deals” than your big competitor next door. Remember that you are going to make the trade deals with the same countries that the EU already has trade deals
The moment the UK leaves the EU it will be a competitor to the EU, how do you think the UK can compete against the EU?
If possible facts will bolster your argument rather than beliefs. Belief without facts is called faith. Faith as you know, is generally found in religions when people believe in things they cannot prove
With regard to your blue passport, as it currently stands freedom of movement will end at the transition period which is dec 2020. I think the blue passport will actually be made in france, yep google confirms this.
QED."That's the easiest way | |||
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"Can we try to keep this focussed on the original question? (Worth a try.) None of my points have been debunked or proven false - they cannot be, they are true.
It's been a long thread. What benefits did you think Brexit would give you? And do you still think you will get those benefits?
My answer was as follows: "The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU.
Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like.
But no, the current deal will not fully provide these, nor restore control of our fish stocks."Thank you for replying. And what benefits do you think the current deal will give you? | |||
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"That's a loooooot of replies. Thank you. My original question was about what benefits leavers thought Brexit would bring. I asked that specifically because, as far as I can tell, the supposed benefits have been thoroughly debunked or proved false. I was curious what benefits leavers still believed in and why they believe in them. I think there's a real problem when opposite sides just try to shout each other down. That's why I'm trying to be civil and listen to why leavers still believe certain things. The problem is that leavers still believe in fantasy. no just democracy
For you democracy is based on lies? Congratulations on your idea of ??democracy so what if it was I voted out knowing it would probably hurt me but don't give a fook I've never known a politician tell the truth most don't even use there proper name but we won
So why did you vote out? You just said you knew it'd prob hurt you. What was the benefit you were hoping for? And do you still you will get that benefit?"there is no benefit for me the council's will still let the scroungers scrounge still allow immigrants to stop here after 3 months if not working so thought fook it see what happens | |||
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"That's a loooooot of replies. Thank you. My original question was about what benefits leavers thought Brexit would bring. I asked that specifically because, as far as I can tell, the supposed benefits have been thoroughly debunked or proved false. I was curious what benefits leavers still believed in and why they believe in them. I think there's a real problem when opposite sides just try to shout each other down. That's why I'm trying to be civil and listen to why leavers still believe certain things. The problem is that leavers still believe in fantasy. no just democracy
For you democracy is based on lies? Congratulations on your idea of ??democracy so what if it was I voted out knowing it would probably hurt me but don't give a fook I've never known a politician tell the truth most don't even use there proper name but we won
So why did you vote out? You just said you knew it'd prob hurt you. What was the benefit you were hoping for? And do you still you will get that benefit? there is no benefit for me the council's will still let the scroungers scrounge still allow immigrants to stop here after 3 months if not working so thought fook it see what happens "So why did you vote for something that you thought wouldn't benefit you? Something you even admitted would probably hurt you? Was it basically a protest vote? | |||
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"That's a loooooot of replies. Thank you. My original question was about what benefits leavers thought Brexit would bring. I asked that specifically because, as far as I can tell, the supposed benefits have been thoroughly debunked or proved false. I was curious what benefits leavers still believed in and why they believe in them. I think there's a real problem when opposite sides just try to shout each other down. That's why I'm trying to be civil and listen to why leavers still believe certain things. The problem is that leavers still believe in fantasy. no just democracy
For you democracy is based on lies? Congratulations on your idea of ??democracy so what if it was I voted out knowing it would probably hurt me but don't give a fook I've never known a politician tell the truth most don't even use there proper name but we won
So why did you vote out? You just said you knew it'd prob hurt you. What was the benefit you were hoping for? And do you still you will get that benefit? there is no benefit for me the council's will still let the scroungers scrounge still allow immigrants to stop here after 3 months if not working so thought fook it see what happens "Witch immigrants you mean? | |||
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"Can we try to keep this focussed on the original question? (Worth a try.) None of my points have been debunked or proven false - they cannot be, they are true.
It's been a long thread. What benefits did you think Brexit would give you? And do you still think you will get those benefits?
My answer was as follows: "The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU.
Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like.
But no, the current deal will not fully provide these, nor restore control of our fish stocks.
Thank you for replying. And what benefits do you think the current deal will give you? "My jury is still out - it is only the start of the process but it might end the parliamentary shenanigans in that those trying to 'stop Brexit' will have to give up once it happens. But we will need a strong pro-brexit majority in the house to make any kind of a silk purse out of a sows ear. I would far rather exit on a managed WTO which would leave us in a far stronger position to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU. I suspect they will apply punitive measures in the next 14 months under the current WA. | |||
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"That's a loooooot of replies. Thank you. My original question was about what benefits leavers thought Brexit would bring. I asked that specifically because, as far as I can tell, the supposed benefits have been thoroughly debunked or proved false. I was curious what benefits leavers still believed in and why they believe in them. I think there's a real problem when opposite sides just try to shout each other down. That's why I'm trying to be civil and listen to why leavers still believe certain things. The problem is that leavers still believe in fantasy. no just democracy
For you democracy is based on lies? Congratulations on your idea of ??democracy so what if it was I voted out knowing it would probably hurt me but don't give a fook I've never known a politician tell the truth most don't even use there proper name but we won
So why did you vote out? You just said you knew it'd prob hurt you. What was the benefit you were hoping for? And do you still you will get that benefit? there is no benefit for me the council's will still let the scroungers scrounge still allow immigrants to stop here after 3 months if not working so thought fook it see what happens
So why did you vote for something that you thought wouldn't benefit you? Something you even admitted would probably hurt you? Was it basically a protest vote?"This is another one blinded by stupidity | |||
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"That's a loooooot of replies. Thank you. My original question was about what benefits leavers thought Brexit would bring. I asked that specifically because, as far as I can tell, the supposed benefits have been thoroughly debunked or proved false. I was curious what benefits leavers still believed in and why they believe in them. I think there's a real problem when opposite sides just try to shout each other down. That's why I'm trying to be civil and listen to why leavers still believe certain things. The problem is that leavers still believe in fantasy. no just democracy
For you democracy is based on lies? Congratulations on your idea of ??democracy so what if it was I voted out knowing it would probably hurt me but don't give a fook I've never known a politician tell the truth most don't even use there proper name but we won
So why did you vote out? You just said you knew it'd prob hurt you. What was the benefit you were hoping for? And do you still you will get that benefit? there is no benefit for me the council's will still let the scroungers scrounge still allow immigrants to stop here after 3 months if not working so thought fook it see what happens
So why did you vote for something that you thought wouldn't benefit you? Something you even admitted would probably hurt you? Was it basically a protest vote?"just to piss people off sit back and watch the Carnage and I'd still vote leave now | |||
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"Can we try to keep this focussed on the original question? (Worth a try.) None of my points have been debunked or proven false - they cannot be, they are true.
It's been a long thread. What benefits did you think Brexit would give you? And do you still think you will get those benefits?
My answer was as follows: "The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU.
Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like.
But no, the current deal will not fully provide these, nor restore control of our fish stocks.
Thank you for replying. And what benefits do you think the current deal will give you?
My jury is still out - it is only the start of the process but it might end the parliamentary shenanigans in that those trying to 'stop Brexit' will have to give up once it happens. But we will need a strong pro-brexit majority in the house to make any kind of a silk purse out of a sows ear. I would far rather exit on a managed WTO which would leave us in a far stronger position to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU. I suspect they will apply punitive measures in the next 14 months under the current WA."It seems the main benefit you still hope to get is better chances to trade. | |||
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"That's a loooooot of replies. Thank you. My original question was about what benefits leavers thought Brexit would bring. I asked that specifically because, as far as I can tell, the supposed benefits have been thoroughly debunked or proved false. I was curious what benefits leavers still believed in and why they believe in them. I think there's a real problem when opposite sides just try to shout each other down. That's why I'm trying to be civil and listen to why leavers still believe certain things. The problem is that leavers still believe in fantasy. no just democracy
For you democracy is based on lies? Congratulations on your idea of ??democracy so what if it was I voted out knowing it would probably hurt me but don't give a fook I've never known a politician tell the truth most don't even use there proper name but we won
So why did you vote out? You just said you knew it'd prob hurt you. What was the benefit you were hoping for? And do you still you will get that benefit? there is no benefit for me the council's will still let the scroungers scrounge still allow immigrants to stop here after 3 months if not working so thought fook it see what happens
So why did you vote for something that you thought wouldn't benefit you? Something you even admitted would probably hurt you? Was it basically a protest vote?
This is another one blinded by stupidity "sticks and stones | |||
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"That's a loooooot of replies. Thank you. My original question was about what benefits leavers thought Brexit would bring. I asked that specifically because, as far as I can tell, the supposed benefits have been thoroughly debunked or proved false. I was curious what benefits leavers still believed in and why they believe in them. I think there's a real problem when opposite sides just try to shout each other down. That's why I'm trying to be civil and listen to why leavers still believe certain things. The problem is that leavers still believe in fantasy. no just democracy
For you democracy is based on lies? Congratulations on your idea of ??democracy so what if it was I voted out knowing it would probably hurt me but don't give a fook I've never known a politician tell the truth most don't even use there proper name but we won
So why did you vote out? You just said you knew it'd prob hurt you. What was the benefit you were hoping for? And do you still you will get that benefit? there is no benefit for me the council's will still let the scroungers scrounge still allow immigrants to stop here after 3 months if not working so thought fook it see what happens
So why did you vote for something that you thought wouldn't benefit you? Something you even admitted would probably hurt you? Was it basically a protest vote? just to piss people off sit back and watch the Carnage and I'd still vote leave now "Just to piss people off. OK. Didn't expect that. | |||
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"That's a loooooot of replies. Thank you. My original question was about what benefits leavers thought Brexit would bring. I asked that specifically because, as far as I can tell, the supposed benefits have been thoroughly debunked or proved false. I was curious what benefits leavers still believed in and why they believe in them. I think there's a real problem when opposite sides just try to shout each other down. That's why I'm trying to be civil and listen to why leavers still believe certain things. The problem is that leavers still believe in fantasy. no just democracy
For you democracy is based on lies? Congratulations on your idea of ??democracy so what if it was I voted out knowing it would probably hurt me but don't give a fook I've never known a politician tell the truth most don't even use there proper name but we won
So why did you vote out? You just said you knew it'd prob hurt you. What was the benefit you were hoping for? And do you still you will get that benefit? there is no benefit for me the council's will still let the scroungers scrounge still allow immigrants to stop here after 3 months if not working so thought fook it see what happens
So why did you vote for something that you thought wouldn't benefit you? Something you even admitted would probably hurt you? Was it basically a protest vote? just to piss people off sit back and watch the Carnage and I'd still vote leave now ". So vote for the folly that's in the country. Is it a threat or a promise? | |||
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"That's a loooooot of replies. Thank you. My original question was about what benefits leavers thought Brexit would bring. I asked that specifically because, as far as I can tell, the supposed benefits have been thoroughly debunked or proved false. I was curious what benefits leavers still believed in and why they believe in them. I think there's a real problem when opposite sides just try to shout each other down. That's why I'm trying to be civil and listen to why leavers still believe certain things. The problem is that leavers still believe in fantasy. no just democracy
For you democracy is based on lies? Congratulations on your idea of ??democracy so what if it was I voted out knowing it would probably hurt me but don't give a fook I've never known a politician tell the truth most don't even use there proper name but we won
So why did you vote out? You just said you knew it'd prob hurt you. What was the benefit you were hoping for? And do you still you will get that benefit? there is no benefit for me the council's will still let the scroungers scrounge still allow immigrants to stop here after 3 months if not working so thought fook it see what happens
So why did you vote for something that you thought wouldn't benefit you? Something you even admitted would probably hurt you? Was it basically a protest vote?
This is another one blinded by stupidity sticks and stones "Try to write something smarter next time. I'm starting to feel sorry for you. How are you doing in real life? Probably the same as in this forum. | |||
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"Can we try to keep this focussed on the original question? (Worth a try.) None of my points have been debunked or proven false - they cannot be, they are true.
It's been a long thread. What benefits did you think Brexit would give you? And do you still think you will get those benefits?
My answer was as follows: "The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU.
Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like.
But no, the current deal will not fully provide these, nor restore control of our fish stocks.
Thank you for replying. And what benefits do you think the current deal will give you?
My jury is still out - it is only the start of the process but it might end the parliamentary shenanigans in that those trying to 'stop Brexit' will have to give up once it happens. But we will need a strong pro-brexit majority in the house to make any kind of a silk purse out of a sows ear. I would far rather exit on a managed WTO which would leave us in a far stronger position to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU. I suspect they will apply punitive measures in the next 14 months under the current WA.
It seems the main benefit you still hope to get is better chances to trade."It's mostly a question of freedom from coercive control. That, in principle, is reason enough, but freedom brings with it all manner of benefits in every area of a sovereign nation's life. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Can we try to keep this focussed on the original question? (Worth a try.) None of my points have been debunked or proven false - they cannot be, they are true.
It's been a long thread. What benefits did you think Brexit would give you? And do you still think you will get those benefits?
My answer was as follows: "The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU.
Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like.
But no, the current deal will not fully provide these, nor restore control of our fish stocks.
Thank you for replying. And what benefits do you think the current deal will give you?
My jury is still out - it is only the start of the process but it might end the parliamentary shenanigans in that those trying to 'stop Brexit' will have to give up once it happens. But we will need a strong pro-brexit majority in the house to make any kind of a silk purse out of a sows ear. I would far rather exit on a managed WTO which would leave us in a far stronger position to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU. I suspect they will apply punitive measures in the next 14 months under the current WA.
It seems the main benefit you still hope to get is better chances to trade.
It's mostly a question of freedom from coercive control. That, in principle, is reason enough, but freedom brings with it all manner of benefits in every area of a sovereign nation's life. "Whose slave are you? You can work freely in the EU or UK which is obvious. Reading you is the same as I'd hear idiote farage and clown lying to you. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"That's a loooooot of replies. Thank you. My original question was about what benefits leavers thought Brexit would bring. I asked that specifically because, as far as I can tell, the supposed benefits have been thoroughly debunked or proved false. I was curious what benefits leavers still believed in and why they believe in them. I think there's a real problem when opposite sides just try to shout each other down. That's why I'm trying to be civil and listen to why leavers still believe certain things. The problem is that leavers still believe in fantasy. no just democracy
For you democracy is based on lies? Congratulations on your idea of ??democracy so what if it was I voted out knowing it would probably hurt me but don't give a fook I've never known a politician tell the truth most don't even use there proper name but we won
So why did you vote out? You just said you knew it'd prob hurt you. What was the benefit you were hoping for? And do you still you will get that benefit? there is no benefit for me the council's will still let the scroungers scrounge still allow immigrants to stop here after 3 months if not working so thought fook it see what happens
So why did you vote for something that you thought wouldn't benefit you? Something you even admitted would probably hurt you? Was it basically a protest vote? just to piss people off sit back and watch the Carnage and I'd still vote leave now .
So vote for the folly that's in the country. Is it a threat or a promise? "I don't need to threat I'm quite happy being the folly or stupid what ever you like | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Can we try to keep this focussed on the original question? (Worth a try.) None of my points have been debunked or proven false - they cannot be, they are true.
It's been a long thread. What benefits did you think Brexit would give you? And do you still think you will get those benefits?
My answer was as follows: "The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU.
Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like.
But no, the current deal will not fully provide these, nor restore control of our fish stocks.
Thank you for replying. And what benefits do you think the current deal will give you?
My jury is still out - it is only the start of the process but it might end the parliamentary shenanigans in that those trying to 'stop Brexit' will have to give up once it happens. But we will need a strong pro-brexit majority in the house to make any kind of a silk purse out of a sows ear. I would far rather exit on a managed WTO which would leave us in a far stronger position to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU. I suspect they will apply punitive measures in the next 14 months under the current WA.
It seems the main benefit you still hope to get is better chances to trade.
It's mostly a question of freedom from coercive control. That, in principle, is reason enough, but freedom brings with it all manner of benefits in every area of a sovereign nation's life. "I guess you could sum up the benefit you hope for in 1 word. Freedom. That's a noble motive. I do think you've been severely lied to by the leave campaign. But I appreciate your honesty and motivation. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"That's a loooooot of replies. Thank you. My original question was about what benefits leavers thought Brexit would bring. I asked that specifically because, as far as I can tell, the supposed benefits have been thoroughly debunked or proved false. I was curious what benefits leavers still believed in and why they believe in them. I think there's a real problem when opposite sides just try to shout each other down. That's why I'm trying to be civil and listen to why leavers still believe certain things. The problem is that leavers still believe in fantasy. no just democracy
For you democracy is based on lies? Congratulations on your idea of ??democracy so what if it was I voted out knowing it would probably hurt me but don't give a fook I've never known a politician tell the truth most don't even use there proper name but we won
So why did you vote out? You just said you knew it'd prob hurt you. What was the benefit you were hoping for? And do you still you will get that benefit? there is no benefit for me the council's will still let the scroungers scrounge still allow immigrants to stop here after 3 months if not working so thought fook it see what happens
So why did you vote for something that you thought wouldn't benefit you? Something you even admitted would probably hurt you? Was it basically a protest vote?
This is another one blinded by stupidity sticks and stones
Try to write something smarter next time. I'm starting to feel sorry for you. How are you doing in real life? Probably the same as in this forum. "I'm doing ok in life I have 3 beautiful kids that are in uni or left with degrees I own 4 house and have a beautiful place in Cornwall and afew grand in the bank but thanks for asking | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Can we try to keep this focussed on the original question? (Worth a try.) None of my points have been debunked or proven false - they cannot be, they are true.
It's been a long thread. What benefits did you think Brexit would give you? And do you still think you will get those benefits?
My answer was as follows: "The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU.
Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like.
But no, the current deal will not fully provide these, nor restore control of our fish stocks.
Thank you for replying. And what benefits do you think the current deal will give you?
My jury is still out - it is only the start of the process but it might end the parliamentary shenanigans in that those trying to 'stop Brexit' will have to give up once it happens. But we will need a strong pro-brexit majority in the house to make any kind of a silk purse out of a sows ear. I would far rather exit on a managed WTO which would leave us in a far stronger position to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU. I suspect they will apply punitive measures in the next 14 months under the current WA.
It seems the main benefit you still hope to get is better chances to trade.
It's mostly a question of freedom from coercive control. That, in principle, is reason enough, but freedom brings with it all manner of benefits in every area of a sovereign nation's life.
I guess you could sum up the benefit you hope for in 1 word. Freedom. That's a noble motive.
I do think you've been severely lied to by the leave campaign. But I appreciate your honesty and motivation."Both sides lied apparently, but as I say, I took virtually no notice of the campaigns because I have been dying to vote out for 30 years, millions of us have!! Their corruption and excessive waste (of our money) has long been on display. Only floating voters are influenced by campaigns, the rest of us already know exactly what we think. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Can we try to keep this focussed on the original question? (Worth a try.) None of my points have been debunked or proven false - they cannot be, they are true.
It's been a long thread. What benefits did you think Brexit would give you? And do you still think you will get those benefits?
My answer was as follows: "The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU.
Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like.
But no, the current deal will not fully provide these, nor restore control of our fish stocks.
Thank you for replying. And what benefits do you think the current deal will give you?
My jury is still out - it is only the start of the process but it might end the parliamentary shenanigans in that those trying to 'stop Brexit' will have to give up once it happens. But we will need a strong pro-brexit majority in the house to make any kind of a silk purse out of a sows ear. I would far rather exit on a managed WTO which would leave us in a far stronger position to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU. I suspect they will apply punitive measures in the next 14 months under the current WA.
It seems the main benefit you still hope to get is better chances to trade.
It's mostly a question of freedom from coercive control. That, in principle, is reason enough, but freedom brings with it all manner of benefits in every area of a sovereign nation's life.
I guess you could sum up the benefit you hope for in 1 word. Freedom. That's a noble motive.
I do think you've been severely lied to by the leave campaign. But I appreciate your honesty and motivation.
Both sides lied apparently, but as I say, I took virtually no notice of the campaigns because I have been dying to vote out for 30 years, millions of us have!! Their corruption and excessive waste (of our money) has long been on display. Only floating voters are influenced by campaigns, the rest of us already know exactly what we think."Interesting. I didn't realise your mind had been made up before the leave/remain campaigns. Do you know there is a huge list of euromyths that can easily be found online? This sums up the many lies certain UK papers have told about things involving the EU over the years. If you based your decision on what you read in papers over those years, you were comprehensively lied to. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Can we try to keep this focussed on the original question? (Worth a try.) None of my points have been debunked or proven false - they cannot be, they are true.
It's been a long thread. What benefits did you think Brexit would give you? And do you still think you will get those benefits?
My answer was as follows: "The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU.
Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like.
But no, the current deal will not fully provide these, nor restore control of our fish stocks.
Thank you for replying. And what benefits do you think the current deal will give you?
My jury is still out - it is only the start of the process but it might end the parliamentary shenanigans in that those trying to 'stop Brexit' will have to give up once it happens. But we will need a strong pro-brexit majority in the house to make any kind of a silk purse out of a sows ear. I would far rather exit on a managed WTO which would leave us in a far stronger position to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU. I suspect they will apply punitive measures in the next 14 months under the current WA.
It seems the main benefit you still hope to get is better chances to trade.
It's mostly a question of freedom from coercive control. That, in principle, is reason enough, but freedom brings with it all manner of benefits in every area of a sovereign nation's life. "When are you leaving? Please don’t forget to take the DUP and that racist bastard Farage with you. We won’t miss either of those. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Can we try to keep this focussed on the original question? (Worth a try.) None of my points have been debunked or proven false - they cannot be, they are true.
It's been a long thread. What benefits did you think Brexit would give you? And do you still think you will get those benefits?
My answer was as follows: "The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU.
Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like.
But no, the current deal will not fully provide these, nor restore control of our fish stocks.
Thank you for replying. And what benefits do you think the current deal will give you?
My jury is still out - it is only the start of the process but it might end the parliamentary shenanigans in that those trying to 'stop Brexit' will have to give up once it happens. But we will need a strong pro-brexit majority in the house to make any kind of a silk purse out of a sows ear. I would far rather exit on a managed WTO which would leave us in a far stronger position to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU. I suspect they will apply punitive measures in the next 14 months under the current WA.
It seems the main benefit you still hope to get is better chances to trade.
It's mostly a question of freedom from coercive control. That, in principle, is reason enough, but freedom brings with it all manner of benefits in every area of a sovereign nation's life.
I guess you could sum up the benefit you hope for in 1 word. Freedom. That's a noble motive.
I do think you've been severely lied to by the leave campaign. But I appreciate your honesty and motivation.
Both sides lied apparently, but as I say, I took virtually no notice of the campaigns because I have been dying to vote out for 30 years, millions of us have!! Their corruption and excessive waste (of our money) has long been on display. Only floating voters are influenced by campaigns, the rest of us already know exactly what we think.
Interesting. I didn't realise your mind had been made up before the leave/remain campaigns.
Do you know there is a huge list of euromyths that can easily be found online? This sums up the many lies certain UK papers have told about things involving the EU over the years. If you based your decision on what you read in papers over those years, you were comprehensively lied to."there probably like my parents who also voted out they have been waiting for a vote since the 70s when we got put in European market as for the papers I've never seen my mother read one more miles and boon or Jilly Cooper | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Can we try to keep this focussed on the original question? (Worth a try.) None of my points have been debunked or proven false - they cannot be, they are true.
It's been a long thread. What benefits did you think Brexit would give you? And do you still think you will get those benefits?
My answer was as follows: "The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU.
Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like.
But no, the current deal will not fully provide these, nor restore control of our fish stocks.
Thank you for replying. And what benefits do you think the current deal will give you?
My jury is still out - it is only the start of the process but it might end the parliamentary shenanigans in that those trying to 'stop Brexit' will have to give up once it happens. But we will need a strong pro-brexit majority in the house to make any kind of a silk purse out of a sows ear. I would far rather exit on a managed WTO which would leave us in a far stronger position to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU. I suspect they will apply punitive measures in the next 14 months under the current WA.
It seems the main benefit you still hope to get is better chances to trade.
It's mostly a question of freedom from coercive control. That, in principle, is reason enough, but freedom brings with it all manner of benefits in every area of a sovereign nation's life.
I guess you could sum up the benefit you hope for in 1 word. Freedom. That's a noble motive.
I do think you've been severely lied to by the leave campaign. But I appreciate your honesty and motivation.
Both sides lied apparently, but as I say, I took virtually no notice of the campaigns because I have been dying to vote out for 30 years, millions of us have!! Their corruption and excessive waste (of our money) has long been on display. Only floating voters are influenced by campaigns, the rest of us already know exactly what we think."I think once you leave the EU you will realise that you will just have to find a new scapegoat for the UKs ills. I’m just wondering who that will be? I’m betting they will be migrants, those less well off, and any other groups that are easily picked on. Scary times indeed. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Can we try to keep this focussed on the original question? (Worth a try.) None of my points have been debunked or proven false - they cannot be, they are true.
It's been a long thread. What benefits did you think Brexit would give you? And do you still think you will get those benefits?
My answer was as follows: "The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU.
Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like.
But no, the current deal will not fully provide these, nor restore control of our fish stocks.
Thank you for replying. And what benefits do you think the current deal will give you?
My jury is still out - it is only the start of the process but it might end the parliamentary shenanigans in that those trying to 'stop Brexit' will have to give up once it happens. But we will need a strong pro-brexit majority in the house to make any kind of a silk purse out of a sows ear. I would far rather exit on a managed WTO which would leave us in a far stronger position to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU. I suspect they will apply punitive measures in the next 14 months under the current WA.
It seems the main benefit you still hope to get is better chances to trade.
It's mostly a question of freedom from coercive control. That, in principle, is reason enough, but freedom brings with it all manner of benefits in every area of a sovereign nation's life.
I guess you could sum up the benefit you hope for in 1 word. Freedom. That's a noble motive.
I do think you've been severely lied to by the leave campaign. But I appreciate your honesty and motivation.
Both sides lied apparently, but as I say, I took virtually no notice of the campaigns because I have been dying to vote out for 30 years, millions of us have!! Their corruption and excessive waste (of our money) has long been on display. Only floating voters are influenced by campaigns, the rest of us already know exactly what we think.
Interesting. I didn't realise your mind had been made up before the leave/remain campaigns.
Do you know there is a huge list of euromyths that can easily be found online? This sums up the many lies certain UK papers have told about things involving the EU over the years. If you based your decision on what you read in papers over those years, you were comprehensively lied to."I didn't, I never read the papers. The corruption is self-evident...what ever did happen to that investigation that was hushed up? The ridiculous, wasteful, undeniable vanities like moving the parliament from Brussels to Strasbourg every month - lunacy!! The unaccounted for millions.... I noticed over the years that when politicians failed in the UK and were soundly rejected by the UK electorate, they popped up in Brussels to start a life long gravy train behind closed doors..... how can that be desirable? Earning huge fat pensions that cannot even be taxed in the UK. Back in the 80's they started banning life-saving veterinary medicines because they eat horses, though of course we do not....oh the list goes on and on, year by year, petty bureaucracy, butter mountains, the dumping of food, the rich farmers paid for producing nothing, the inability to save key industries......so much madness. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Can we try to keep this focussed on the original question? (Worth a try.) None of my points have been debunked or proven false - they cannot be, they are true.
It's been a long thread. What benefits did you think Brexit would give you? And do you still think you will get those benefits?
My answer was as follows: "The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU.
Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like.
But no, the current deal will not fully provide these, nor restore control of our fish stocks.
Thank you for replying. And what benefits do you think the current deal will give you?
My jury is still out - it is only the start of the process but it might end the parliamentary shenanigans in that those trying to 'stop Brexit' will have to give up once it happens. But we will need a strong pro-brexit majority in the house to make any kind of a silk purse out of a sows ear. I would far rather exit on a managed WTO which would leave us in a far stronger position to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU. I suspect they will apply punitive measures in the next 14 months under the current WA.
It seems the main benefit you still hope to get is better chances to trade.
It's mostly a question of freedom from coercive control. That, in principle, is reason enough, but freedom brings with it all manner of benefits in every area of a sovereign nation's life.
I guess you could sum up the benefit you hope for in 1 word. Freedom. That's a noble motive.
I do think you've been severely lied to by the leave campaign. But I appreciate your honesty and motivation.
Both sides lied apparently, but as I say, I took virtually no notice of the campaigns because I have been dying to vote out for 30 years, millions of us have!! Their corruption and excessive waste (of our money) has long been on display. Only floating voters are influenced by campaigns, the rest of us already know exactly what we think.
Interesting. I didn't realise your mind had been made up before the leave/remain campaigns.
Do you know there is a huge list of euromyths that can easily be found online? This sums up the many lies certain UK papers have told about things involving the EU over the years. If you based your decision on what you read in papers over those years, you were comprehensively lied to.
I didn't, I never read the papers. The corruption is self-evident...what ever did happen to that investigation that was hushed up? The ridiculous, wasteful, undeniable vanities like moving the parliament from Brussels to Strasbourg every month - lunacy!! The unaccounted for millions.... I noticed over the years that when politicians failed in the UK and were soundly rejected by the UK electorate, they popped up in Brussels to start a life long gravy train behind closed doors..... how can that be desirable? Earning huge fat pensions that cannot even be taxed in the UK. Back in the 80's they started banning life-saving veterinary medicines because they eat horses, though of course we do not....oh the list goes on and on, year by year, petty bureaucracy, butter mountains, the dumping of food, the rich farmers paid for producing nothing, the inability to save key industries......so much madness."If you didn't pay attention to the campaigns and never read papers, where did you hear all this? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"That's a loooooot of replies. Thank you. My original question was about what benefits leavers thought Brexit would bring. I asked that specifically because, as far as I can tell, the supposed benefits have been thoroughly debunked or proved false. I was curious what benefits leavers still believed in and why they believe in them. I think there's a real problem when opposite sides just try to shout each other down. That's why I'm trying to be civil and listen to why leavers still believe certain things. The problem is that leavers still believe in fantasy. no just democracy
For you democracy is based on lies? Congratulations on your idea of ??democracy so what if it was I voted out knowing it would probably hurt me but don't give a fook I've never known a politician tell the truth most don't even use there proper name but we won
So why did you vote out? You just said you knew it'd prob hurt you. What was the benefit you were hoping for? And do you still you will get that benefit? there is no benefit for me the council's will still let the scroungers scrounge still allow immigrants to stop here after 3 months if not working so thought fook it see what happens
So why did you vote for something that you thought wouldn't benefit you? Something you even admitted would probably hurt you? Was it basically a protest vote? just to piss people off sit back and watch the Carnage and I'd still vote leave now .
So vote for the folly that's in the country. Is it a threat or a promise? I don't need to threat I'm quite happy being the folly or stupid what ever you like "You are unfortunately. I feel sorry. Oh and don't forget about hypocrisy. Your hypocrisy. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Can we try to keep this focussed on the original question? (Worth a try.) None of my points have been debunked or proven false - they cannot be, they are true.
It's been a long thread. What benefits did you think Brexit would give you? And do you still think you will get those benefits?
My answer was as follows: "The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU.
Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like.
But no, the current deal will not fully provide these, nor restore control of our fish stocks.
Thank you for replying. And what benefits do you think the current deal will give you?
My jury is still out - it is only the start of the process but it might end the parliamentary shenanigans in that those trying to 'stop Brexit' will have to give up once it happens. But we will need a strong pro-brexit majority in the house to make any kind of a silk purse out of a sows ear. I would far rather exit on a managed WTO which would leave us in a far stronger position to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU. I suspect they will apply punitive measures in the next 14 months under the current WA.
It seems the main benefit you still hope to get is better chances to trade.
It's mostly a question of freedom from coercive control. That, in principle, is reason enough, but freedom brings with it all manner of benefits in every area of a sovereign nation's life.
I guess you could sum up the benefit you hope for in 1 word. Freedom. That's a noble motive.
I do think you've been severely lied to by the leave campaign. But I appreciate your honesty and motivation.
Both sides lied apparently, but as I say, I took virtually no notice of the campaigns because I have been dying to vote out for 30 years, millions of us have!! Their corruption and excessive waste (of our money) has long been on display. Only floating voters are influenced by campaigns, the rest of us already know exactly what we think.
Interesting. I didn't realise your mind had been made up before the leave/remain campaigns.
Do you know there is a huge list of euromyths that can easily be found online? This sums up the many lies certain UK papers have told about things involving the EU over the years. If you based your decision on what you read in papers over those years, you were comprehensively lied to.
I didn't, I never read the papers. The corruption is self-evident...what ever did happen to that investigation that was hushed up? The ridiculous, wasteful, undeniable vanities like moving the parliament from Brussels to Strasbourg every month - lunacy!! The unaccounted for millions.... I noticed over the years that when politicians failed in the UK and were soundly rejected by the UK electorate, they popped up in Brussels to start a life long gravy train behind closed doors..... how can that be desirable? Earning huge fat pensions that cannot even be taxed in the UK. Back in the 80's they started banning life-saving veterinary medicines because they eat horses, though of course we do not....oh the list goes on and on, year by year, petty bureaucracy, butter mountains, the dumping of food, the rich farmers paid for producing nothing, the inability to save key industries......so much madness."Wow..just Wow!!!!...... based on the inaccuracies in what you’ve just spewed you might want to start reading newspapers after all. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Can we try to keep this focussed on the original question? (Worth a try.) None of my points have been debunked or proven false - they cannot be, they are true.
It's been a long thread. What benefits did you think Brexit would give you? And do you still think you will get those benefits?
My answer was as follows: "The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU.
Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like.
But no, the current deal will not fully provide these, nor restore control of our fish stocks.
Thank you for replying. And what benefits do you think the current deal will give you?
My jury is still out - it is only the start of the process but it might end the parliamentary shenanigans in that those trying to 'stop Brexit' will have to give up once it happens. But we will need a strong pro-brexit majority in the house to make any kind of a silk purse out of a sows ear. I would far rather exit on a managed WTO which would leave us in a far stronger position to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU. I suspect they will apply punitive measures in the next 14 months under the current WA.
It seems the main benefit you still hope to get is better chances to trade.
It's mostly a question of freedom from coercive control. That, in principle, is reason enough, but freedom brings with it all manner of benefits in every area of a sovereign nation's life.
I guess you could sum up the benefit you hope for in 1 word. Freedom. That's a noble motive.
I do think you've been severely lied to by the leave campaign. But I appreciate your honesty and motivation.
Both sides lied apparently, but as I say, I took virtually no notice of the campaigns because I have been dying to vote out for 30 years, millions of us have!! Their corruption and excessive waste (of our money) has long been on display. Only floating voters are influenced by campaigns, the rest of us already know exactly what we think.
Interesting. I didn't realise your mind had been made up before the leave/remain campaigns.
Do you know there is a huge list of euromyths that can easily be found online? This sums up the many lies certain UK papers have told about things involving the EU over the years. If you based your decision on what you read in papers over those years, you were comprehensively lied to.
I didn't, I never read the papers. The corruption is self-evident...what ever did happen to that investigation that was hushed up? The ridiculous, wasteful, undeniable vanities like moving the parliament from Brussels to Strasbourg every month - lunacy!! The unaccounted for millions.... I noticed over the years that when politicians failed in the UK and were soundly rejected by the UK electorate, they popped up in Brussels to start a life long gravy train behind closed doors..... how can that be desirable? Earning huge fat pensions that cannot even be taxed in the UK. Back in the 80's they started banning life-saving veterinary medicines because they eat horses, though of course we do not....oh the list goes on and on, year by year, petty bureaucracy, butter mountains, the dumping of food, the rich farmers paid for producing nothing, the inability to save key industries......so much madness."What idiocy you say. Hard to believe. I wish you less drinking and more realism | |||
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"Can we try to keep this focussed on the original question? (Worth a try.) None of my points have been debunked or proven false - they cannot be, they are true.
It's been a long thread. What benefits did you think Brexit would give you? And do you still think you will get those benefits?
My answer was as follows: "The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU.
Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like.
But no, the current deal will not fully provide these, nor restore control of our fish stocks.
Thank you for replying. And what benefits do you think the current deal will give you?
My jury is still out - it is only the start of the process but it might end the parliamentary shenanigans in that those trying to 'stop Brexit' will have to give up once it happens. But we will need a strong pro-brexit majority in the house to make any kind of a silk purse out of a sows ear. I would far rather exit on a managed WTO which would leave us in a far stronger position to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU. I suspect they will apply punitive measures in the next 14 months under the current WA.
It seems the main benefit you still hope to get is better chances to trade.
It's mostly a question of freedom from coercive control. That, in principle, is reason enough, but freedom brings with it all manner of benefits in every area of a sovereign nation's life.
I guess you could sum up the benefit you hope for in 1 word. Freedom. That's a noble motive.
I do think you've been severely lied to by the leave campaign. But I appreciate your honesty and motivation.
Both sides lied apparently, but as I say, I took virtually no notice of the campaigns because I have been dying to vote out for 30 years, millions of us have!! Their corruption and excessive waste (of our money) has long been on display. Only floating voters are influenced by campaigns, the rest of us already know exactly what we think.
Interesting. I didn't realise your mind had been made up before the leave/remain campaigns.
Do you know there is a huge list of euromyths that can easily be found online? This sums up the many lies certain UK papers have told about things involving the EU over the years. If you based your decision on what you read in papers over those years, you were comprehensively lied to.
I didn't, I never read the papers. The corruption is self-evident...what ever did happen to that investigation that was hushed up? The ridiculous, wasteful, undeniable vanities like moving the parliament from Brussels to Strasbourg every month - lunacy!! The unaccounted for millions.... I noticed over the years that when politicians failed in the UK and were soundly rejected by the UK electorate, they popped up in Brussels to start a life long gravy train behind closed doors..... how can that be desirable? Earning huge fat pensions that cannot even be taxed in the UK. Back in the 80's they started banning life-saving veterinary medicines because they eat horses, though of course we do not....oh the list goes on and on, year by year, petty bureaucracy, butter mountains, the dumping of food, the rich farmers paid for producing nothing, the inability to save key industries......so much madness.
If you didn't pay attention to the campaigns and never read papers, where did you hear all this?"First hand experience of it, discussions with other people with first hand experience, personal research, and of course a wide variety of news media. Everything I have mentioned is in the public domain and easily verified though. | |||
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"Can we try to keep this focussed on the original question? (Worth a try.) None of my points have been debunked or proven false - they cannot be, they are true.
It's been a long thread. What benefits did you think Brexit would give you? And do you still think you will get those benefits?
My answer was as follows: "The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU.
Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like.
But no, the current deal will not fully provide these, nor restore control of our fish stocks.
Thank you for replying. And what benefits do you think the current deal will give you?
My jury is still out - it is only the start of the process but it might end the parliamentary shenanigans in that those trying to 'stop Brexit' will have to give up once it happens. But we will need a strong pro-brexit majority in the house to make any kind of a silk purse out of a sows ear. I would far rather exit on a managed WTO which would leave us in a far stronger position to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU. I suspect they will apply punitive measures in the next 14 months under the current WA.
It seems the main benefit you still hope to get is better chances to trade.
It's mostly a question of freedom from coercive control. That, in principle, is reason enough, but freedom brings with it all manner of benefits in every area of a sovereign nation's life.
I guess you could sum up the benefit you hope for in 1 word. Freedom. That's a noble motive.
I do think you've been severely lied to by the leave campaign. But I appreciate your honesty and motivation.
Both sides lied apparently, but as I say, I took virtually no notice of the campaigns because I have been dying to vote out for 30 years, millions of us have!! Their corruption and excessive waste (of our money) has long been on display. Only floating voters are influenced by campaigns, the rest of us already know exactly what we think.
Interesting. I didn't realise your mind had been made up before the leave/remain campaigns.
Do you know there is a huge list of euromyths that can easily be found online? This sums up the many lies certain UK papers have told about things involving the EU over the years. If you based your decision on what you read in papers over those years, you were comprehensively lied to.
I didn't, I never read the papers. The corruption is self-evident...what ever did happen to that investigation that was hushed up? The ridiculous, wasteful, undeniable vanities like moving the parliament from Brussels to Strasbourg every month - lunacy!! The unaccounted for millions.... I noticed over the years that when politicians failed in the UK and were soundly rejected by the UK electorate, they popped up in Brussels to start a life long gravy train behind closed doors..... how can that be desirable? Earning huge fat pensions that cannot even be taxed in the UK. Back in the 80's they started banning life-saving veterinary medicines because they eat horses, though of course we do not....oh the list goes on and on, year by year, petty bureaucracy, butter mountains, the dumping of food, the rich farmers paid for producing nothing, the inability to save key industries......so much madness.
If you didn't pay attention to the campaigns and never read papers, where did you hear all this?
First hand experience of it, discussions with other people with first hand experience, personal research, and of course a wide variety of news media. Everything I have mentioned is in the public domain and easily verified though."ehhhhhhh no no it is not. It’s lies and delusion | |||
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"Santer, yes, that was the one I was thinking of, in 1999: "In 1999, Jacques Santer, the head of the European Commission, and his fellow commissioners, were forced to resign en masse over a corruption scandal. Santer had led the Commission until it collapsed after a devastating report on fraud and nepotism attacked the EU’s executive body for serious management failings. All 20 members of the Commission stepped down, in what was described at the time as the biggest crisis in the European Commission’s history. " There have been several other major corruption scandals over the years, and of course they are still going on - a number of the new commission seem to have been investigated or convicted for fraud or something similarly disreputable. Up to E990 billion a year is a recent estimate of the possible cost of corruption in the EU." Where did you read that? Apart from being utter nonsense it’s beyond hilarious that you are actually using that as a legitimate basis of your argument regarding your stance on being better off after Brexit. | |||
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"Santer, yes, that was the one I was thinking of, in 1999: "In 1999, Jacques Santer, the head of the European Commission, and his fellow commissioners, were forced to resign en masse over a corruption scandal. Santer had led the Commission until it collapsed after a devastating report on fraud and nepotism attacked the EU’s executive body for serious management failings. All 20 members of the Commission stepped down, in what was described at the time as the biggest crisis in the European Commission’s history. " There have been several other major corruption scandals over the years, and of course they are still going on - a number of the new commission seem to have been investigated or convicted for fraud or something similarly disreputable. Up to E990 billion a year is a recent estimate of the possible cost of corruption in the EU. Where did you read that? Apart from being utter nonsense .... " E990 million is the figure given in the report commissioned by the EU Parliament. | |||
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"Santer, yes, that was the one I was thinking of, in 1999: "In 1999, Jacques Santer, the head of the European Commission, and his fellow commissioners, were forced to resign en masse over a corruption scandal. Santer had led the Commission until it collapsed after a devastating report on fraud and nepotism attacked the EU’s executive body for serious management failings. All 20 members of the Commission stepped down, in what was described at the time as the biggest crisis in the European Commission’s history. " There have been several other major corruption scandals over the years, and of course they are still going on - a number of the new commission seem to have been investigated or convicted for fraud or something similarly disreputable. Up to E990 billion a year is a recent estimate of the possible cost of corruption in the EU. Where did you read that? Apart from being utter nonsense .... E990 million is the figure given in the report commissioned by the EU Parliament. " That’s corruption in the EU.....not CAUSED by the EU. The global figure for corruption costs is 3.6 trillion a year. If your quoting a figure at least get who causes it correct. | |||
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"Santer, yes, that was the one I was thinking of, in 1999: "In 1999, Jacques Santer, the head of the European Commission, and his fellow commissioners, were forced to resign en masse over a corruption scandal. Santer had led the Commission until it collapsed after a devastating report on fraud and nepotism attacked the EU’s executive body for serious management failings. All 20 members of the Commission stepped down, in what was described at the time as the biggest crisis in the European Commission’s history. " There have been several other major corruption scandals over the years, and of course they are still going on - a number of the new commission seem to have been investigated or convicted for fraud or something similarly disreputable. Up to E990 billion a year is a recent estimate of the possible cost of corruption in the EU. Where did you read that? Apart from being utter nonsense .... E990 million is the figure given in the report commissioned by the EU Parliament. " Sorry billion, not million - tired now, going to sleep. | |||
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"Can we try to keep this focussed on the original question? (Worth a try.) None of my points have been debunked or proven false - they cannot be, they are true.
It's been a long thread. What benefits did you think Brexit would give you? And do you still think you will get those benefits?
My answer was as follows: "The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU.
Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like.
But no, the current deal will not fully provide these, nor restore control of our fish stocks.
Thank you for replying. And what benefits do you think the current deal will give you?
My jury is still out - it is only the start of the process but it might end the parliamentary shenanigans in that those trying to 'stop Brexit' will have to give up once it happens. But we will need a strong pro-brexit majority in the house to make any kind of a silk purse out of a sows ear. I would far rather exit on a managed WTO which would leave us in a far stronger position to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU. I suspect they will apply punitive measures in the next 14 months under the current WA.
It seems the main benefit you still hope to get is better chances to trade.
It's mostly a question of freedom from coercive control. That, in principle, is reason enough, but freedom brings with it all manner of benefits in every area of a sovereign nation's life.
I guess you could sum up the benefit you hope for in 1 word. Freedom. That's a noble motive.
I do think you've been severely lied to by the leave campaign. But I appreciate your honesty and motivation.
Both sides lied apparently, but as I say, I took virtually no notice of the campaigns because I have been dying to vote out for 30 years, millions of us have!! Their corruption and excessive waste (of our money) has long been on display. Only floating voters are influenced by campaigns, the rest of us already know exactly what we think.
Interesting. I didn't realise your mind had been made up before the leave/remain campaigns.
Do you know there is a huge list of euromyths that can easily be found online? This sums up the many lies certain UK papers have told about things involving the EU over the years. If you based your decision on what you read in papers over those years, you were comprehensively lied to.
I didn't, I never read the papers. The corruption is self-evident...what ever did happen to that investigation that was hushed up? The ridiculous, wasteful, undeniable vanities like moving the parliament from Brussels to Strasbourg every month - lunacy!! The unaccounted for millions.... I noticed over the years that when politicians failed in the UK and were soundly rejected by the UK electorate, they popped up in Brussels to start a life long gravy train behind closed doors..... how can that be desirable? Earning huge fat pensions that cannot even be taxed in the UK. Back in the 80's they started banning life-saving veterinary medicines because they eat horses, though of course we do not....oh the list goes on and on, year by year, petty bureaucracy, butter mountains, the dumping of food, the rich farmers paid for producing nothing, the inability to save key industries......so much madness."I think most people agree the Brussels/Strasbourg move is stupid. It's due to a treaty, though. We've been in the EU for a long time. We could have thrown our weight behind a campaign to reform that. If our failed politicians pop up as MEPs, that's our fault for not taking those jobs seriously enough. I can't find what you mean about the vet medicines. Bureaucracy is depressingly inevitable in any country or large organisation. The butter mountain had mostly vanished by 2017. If you meant the EU were dumping food on the African market, export subsidies for agircultural products to Africa have been set at sero since 2009 and the EU agreed to ban it in 2014. On farming subsidies, I don't know a lot about that industry. Yes they get subsidies. But after Brexit, it seems the change will be that those subsidies will be paid by the UK rather than by the EU. The saving industry thing's a bit of a big and vague term for me to search. But wasn't the UK gov happy to let Thomas Cook go bust until Hays bought them? Maybe certain things you mentioned aren't as one-sided as you've been told. | |||
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"Santer, yes, that was the one I was thinking of, in 1999: "In 1999, Jacques Santer, the head of the European Commission, and his fellow commissioners, were forced to resign en masse over a corruption scandal. Santer had led the Commission until it collapsed after a devastating report on fraud and nepotism attacked the EU’s executive body for serious management failings. All 20 members of the Commission stepped down, in what was described at the time as the biggest crisis in the European Commission’s history. " There have been several other major corruption scandals over the years, and of course they are still going on - a number of the new commission seem to have been investigated or convicted for fraud or something similarly disreputable. Up to E990 billion a year is a recent estimate of the possible cost of corruption in the EU. Where did you read that? Apart from being utter nonsense .... E990 million is the figure given in the report commissioned by the EU Parliament. Sorry billion, not million - tired now, going to sleep. " I'm tired too. Sorry for any typos. Sleep well. | |||
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"Santer, yes, that was the one I was thinking of, in 1999: "In 1999, Jacques Santer, the head of the European Commission, and his fellow commissioners, were forced to resign en masse over a corruption scandal. Santer had led the Commission until it collapsed after a devastating report on fraud and nepotism attacked the EU’s executive body for serious management failings. All 20 members of the Commission stepped down, in what was described at the time as the biggest crisis in the European Commission’s history. " There have been several other major corruption scandals over the years, and of course they are still going on - a number of the new commission seem to have been investigated or convicted for fraud or something similarly disreputable. Up to E990 billion a year is a recent estimate of the possible cost of corruption in the EU. Where did you read that? Apart from being utter nonsense .... E990 million is the figure given in the report commissioned by the EU Parliament. Sorry billion, not million - tired now, going to sleep. " Tired and d*unk I’d say | |||
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"Santer, yes, that was the one I was thinking of, in 1999: "In 1999, Jacques Santer, the head of the European Commission, and his fellow commissioners, were forced to resign en masse over a corruption scandal. Santer had led the Commission until it collapsed after a devastating report on fraud and nepotism attacked the EU’s executive body for serious management failings. All 20 members of the Commission stepped down, in what was described at the time as the biggest crisis in the European Commission’s history. " There have been several other major corruption scandals over the years, and of course they are still going on - a number of the new commission seem to have been investigated or convicted for fraud or something similarly disreputable. Up to E990 billion a year is a recent estimate of the possible cost of corruption in the EU. Where did you read that? Apart from being utter nonsense .... E990 million is the figure given in the report commissioned by the EU Parliament. Sorry billion, not million - tired now, going to sleep. Tired and d*unk I’d say " No need for insults. The lady took the time to reply at length. We all seem to have veered away from the original question of benefits, though, don't we?  | |||
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"Santer, yes, that was the one I was thinking of, in 1999: "In 1999, Jacques Santer, the head of the European Commission, and his fellow commissioners, were forced to resign en masse over a corruption scandal. Santer had led the Commission until it collapsed after a devastating report on fraud and nepotism attacked the EU’s executive body for serious management failings. All 20 members of the Commission stepped down, in what was described at the time as the biggest crisis in the European Commission’s history. " There have been several other major corruption scandals over the years, and of course they are still going on - a number of the new commission seem to have been investigated or convicted for fraud or something similarly disreputable. Up to E990 billion a year is a recent estimate of the possible cost of corruption in the EU. Where did you read that? Apart from being utter nonsense .... E990 million is the figure given in the report commissioned by the EU Parliament. Sorry billion, not million - tired now, going to sleep. Tired and d*unk I’d say No need for insults. The lady took the time to reply at length. We all seem to have veered away from the original question of benefits, though, don't we? "I’d rather an insult than a biased lie | |||
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"Santer, yes, that was the one I was thinking of, in 1999: "In 1999, Jacques Santer, the head of the European Commission, and his fellow commissioners, were forced to resign en masse over a corruption scandal. Santer had led the Commission until it collapsed after a devastating report on fraud and nepotism attacked the EU’s executive body for serious management failings. All 20 members of the Commission stepped down, in what was described at the time as the biggest crisis in the European Commission’s history. " There have been several other major corruption scandals over the years, and of course they are still going on - a number of the new commission seem to have been investigated or convicted for fraud or something similarly disreputable. Up to E990 billion a year is a recent estimate of the possible cost of corruption in the EU. Where did you read that? Apart from being utter nonsense .... E990 million is the figure given in the report commissioned by the EU Parliament. Sorry billion, not million - tired now, going to sleep. Tired and d*unk I’d say No need for insults. The lady took the time to reply at length. We all seem to have veered away from the original question of benefits, though, don't we?
I’d rather an insult than a biased lie "I think she's telling the truth as she sees it. No reason to insult her. If opposite sides shout at and insult each other, we all just dig in our heels and become less willing to ever engage with the other side. | |||
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"Santer, yes, that was the one I was thinking of, in 1999: "In 1999, Jacques Santer, the head of the European Commission, and his fellow commissioners, were forced to resign en masse over a corruption scandal. Santer had led the Commission until it collapsed after a devastating report on fraud and nepotism attacked the EU’s executive body for serious management failings. All 20 members of the Commission stepped down, in what was described at the time as the biggest crisis in the European Commission’s history. " There have been several other major corruption scandals over the years, and of course they are still going on - a number of the new commission seem to have been investigated or convicted for fraud or something similarly disreputable. Up to E990 billion a year is a recent estimate of the possible cost of corruption in the EU." *************************** I have to say your comments here are, in my opinion, very well written, respectful, free from child-like content, totally verifiable and, (again, in my opinion), truthful. Thank you Dear, I appreciate your words. Please, try to avoid the baiting from the various members of T.W.A.T.T.s (The Wearisome, Abhorrent, Taunting Troll society.) Feeding them attracts the others. | |||
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"Most people voted out to take control nothing to do with money. But the money don't like it. Control who we sell or buy from and stop EU courts overruling UK courts. Plus EU parliament making laws that our parliament have to put into UK law, even if it made to disadvantage us crazy. " Which laws were made without the UKs agreement that you don't agree with? | |||
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"Most people voted out to take control nothing to do with money. But the money don't like it. Control who we sell or buy from and stop EU courts overruling UK courts. Plus EU parliament making laws that our parliament have to put into UK law, even if it made to disadvantage us crazy. Which laws were made without the UKs agreement that you don't agree with? " if you don't know then you never watch the news. It took 3 year's to remove a man who preached hate and to kill. But EU law said he had rights and uk courts was against his human rights | |||
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"Most people voted out to take control nothing to do with money. But the money don't like it. Control who we sell or buy from and stop EU courts overruling UK courts. Plus EU parliament making laws that our parliament have to put into UK law, even if it made to disadvantage us crazy. Which laws were made without the UKs agreement that you don't agree with? if you don't know then you never watch the news. It took 3 year's to remove a man who preached hate and to kill. But EU law said he had rights and uk courts was against his human rights " And how long will it take for the courts to remove a farage who also preached hatred? He preaches hatred all the time. | |||
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"Most people voted out to take control nothing to do with money. But the money don't like it. Control who we sell or buy from and stop EU courts overruling UK courts. Plus EU parliament making laws that our parliament have to put into UK law, even if it made to disadvantage us crazy. Which laws were made without the UKs agreement that you don't agree with? if you don't know then you never watch the news. It took 3 year's to remove a man who preached hate and to kill. But EU law said he had rights and uk courts was against his human rights And how long will it take for the courts to remove a farage who also preached hatred? He preaches hatred all the time. " dont think you can remove him lol he was born here the guy they used as an example wasnt | |||
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" Utter bollocks. Your level of knowledge about UK and EU is tragic. But I am not surprised at all "This is why most people don’t bother to post on these threads. There will be benefits for some, it’s ridiculous to think that no part of the economy will benefit. Whether the benefits out way the deficits is the real question. | |||
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"Most people voted out to take control nothing to do with money. But the money don't like it. Control who we sell or buy from and stop EU courts overruling UK courts. Plus EU parliament making laws that our parliament have to put into UK law, even if it made to disadvantage us crazy. Which laws were made without the UKs agreement that you don't agree with? if you don't know then you never watch the news. It took 3 year's to remove a man who preached hate and to kill. But EU law said he had rights and uk courts was against his human rights And how long will it take for the courts to remove a farage who also preached hatred? He preaches hatred all the time. " He’s going to live in the EU where his children have now got German passports.Hell leave soon enough.. | |||
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"Can we try to keep this focussed on the original question? (Worth a try.) None of my points have been debunked or proven false - they cannot be, they are true.
It's been a long thread. What benefits did you think Brexit would give you? And do you still think you will get those benefits?
My answer was as follows: "The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU.
Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like.
But no, the current deal will not fully provide these, nor restore control of our fish stocks.
Thank you for replying. And what benefits do you think the current deal will give you?
My jury is still out - it is only the start of the process but it might end the parliamentary shenanigans in that those trying to 'stop Brexit' will have to give up once it happens. But we will need a strong pro-brexit majority in the house to make any kind of a silk purse out of a sows ear. I would far rather exit on a managed WTO which would leave us in a far stronger position to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU. I suspect they will apply punitive measures in the next 14 months under the current WA.
It seems the main benefit you still hope to get is better chances to trade.
It's mostly a question of freedom from coercive control. That, in principle, is reason enough, but freedom brings with it all manner of benefits in every area of a sovereign nation's life. "You’ve said this before when you accidentally (or on purpose?) described the problems with the U.K. instead of answering the original question. Do you have an actual concrete example of this coercive control and how is has negatively affected us? -Matt | |||
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" Utter bollocks. Your level of knowledge about UK and EU is tragic. But I am not surprised at all
This is why most people don’t bother to post on these threads.
There will be benefits for some, it’s ridiculous to think that no part of the economy will benefit.
Whether the benefits out way the deficits is the real question."I think that was the point of the original al question. To try and find out what the benefits actually are perceived to be. As so far no-one can come up with any actual benefits other than random emotional feelings. -Matt | |||
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"Most people voted out to take control nothing to do with money. But the money don't like it. Control who we sell or buy from and stop EU courts overruling UK courts. Plus EU parliament making laws that our parliament have to put into UK law, even if it made to disadvantage us crazy. Which laws were made without the UKs agreement that you don't agree with? if you don't know then you never watch the news. It took 3 year's to remove a man who preached hate and to kill. But EU law said he had rights and uk courts was against his human rights " This is why we are in this mess. Because people can’t tell the difference between the ECJ and the ECHR. And as a result say stupid things like the above. -Matt | |||
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" Utter bollocks. Your level of knowledge about UK and EU is tragic. But I am not surprised at all
This is why most people don’t bother to post on these threads.
There will be benefits for some, it’s ridiculous to think that no part of the economy will benefit.
Whether the benefits out way the deficits is the real question.
I think that was the point of the original al question. To try and find out what the benefits actually are perceived to be. As so far no-one can come up with any actual benefits other than random emotional feelings.
-Matt"I did post on another thread the positives I have experienced at my company and witnessed at others. Customers looking to source more locally, shortening the supply chain logistics etc but gave up when posters who had no knowledge of industry kept telling me I didn’t know what I was talking about or we were an exception because it didn’t suit their narrative. Just because people can’t be bothered to post on here doesn’t mean there’s no positives. | |||
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" Utter bollocks. Your level of knowledge about UK and EU is tragic. But I am not surprised at all
This is why most people don’t bother to post on these threads.
There will be benefits for some, it’s ridiculous to think that no part of the economy will benefit.
Whether the benefits out way the deficits is the real question.
I think that was the point of the original al question. To try and find out what the benefits actually are perceived to be. As so far no-one can come up with any actual benefits other than random emotional feelings.
-Matt
I did post on another thread the positives I have experienced at my company and witnessed at others.
Customers looking to source more locally, shortening the supply chain logistics etc but gave up when posters who had no knowledge of industry kept telling me I didn’t know what I was talking about or we were an exception because it didn’t suit their narrative.
Just because people can’t be bothered to post on here doesn’t mean there’s no positives."Ahh, excellent. I missed that. So great your company has some benefits. I guess some domestic manufacturers and producers will see benefits provided the govt doesn’t zero rate import duties on their overseas competitors. But still it is a pretty small drop in the ocean compared to all the companies that can see hinderances as a result of leaving the EU. -Matt | |||
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"Most people voted out to take control nothing to do with money. But the money don't like it. Control who we sell or buy from and stop EU courts overruling UK courts. Plus EU parliament making laws that our parliament have to put into UK law, even if it made to disadvantage us crazy. Which laws were made without the UKs agreement that you don't agree with? if you don't know then you never watch the news. It took 3 year's to remove a man who preached hate and to kill. But EU law said he had rights and uk courts fwas against his human rights And how long will it take for the courts to remove a farage who also preached hatred? He preaches hatred all the time. He’s going to live in the EU where his children have now got German passports.Hell leave soon enough.. "really is he hows he gona manage that? we keep being told over and over again once we leave we will find it near on impossible to move to the e.u and just going on holiday is gona be so much harder.and why have his kids got german pasdports oh yea his mrs is german so there entitled to them and correct me if im wrong ive never heard him calling for peeps to have there heads chopped off.but hey unless someo.e has the same views as you there not allowed an opinion. | |||
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"Most people voted out to take control nothing to do with money. But the money don't like it. Control who we sell or buy from and stop EU courts overruling UK courts. Plus EU parliament making laws that our parliament have to put into UK law, even if it made to disadvantage us crazy. Which laws were made without the UKs agreement that you don't agree with? if you don't know then you never watch the news. It took 3 year's to remove a man who preached hate and to kill. But EU law said he had rights and uk courts was against his human rights And how long will it take for the courts to remove a farage who also preached hatred? He preaches hatred all the time. dont think you can remove him lol he was born here the guy they used as an example wasnt" I meant prison. Sorry for the wrong word. | |||
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" I think most people agree the Brussels/Strasbourg move is stupid. It's due to a treaty, though. We've been in the EU for a long time. We could have thrown our weight behind a campaign to reform that. If our failed politicians pop up as MEPs, that's our fault for not taking those jobs seriously enough. I can't find what you mean about the vet medicines. Bureaucracy is depressingly inevitable in any country or large organisation. The butter mountain had mostly vanished by 2017. If you meant the EU were dumping food on the African market, export subsidies for agircultural products to Africa have been set at sero since 2009 and the EU agreed to ban it in 2014. On farming subsidies, I don't know a lot about that industry. Yes they get subsidies. But after Brexit, it seems the change will be that those subsidies will be paid by the UK rather than by the EU. The saving industry thing's a bit of a big and vague term for me to search. But wasn't the UK gov happy to let Thomas Cook go bust until Hays bought them? Maybe certain things you mentioned aren't as one-sided as you've been told." The Gov would have been prevented from saving Thomas Cook by EU regulations anyway, same with British Steel, did you not realise? And at least some of the shipbuilding which is due to go abroad, along with our fish if we do not get out........yes, it may have been possible to reform the EU, I think we did try, a lot of people have, and got nowhere - because they are totally unaccountable. They are a layer of extremely expensive unelected bureaucrats which we just don't need, and their goal is not one we aspire to anyway - we do not want to be a cash cow for their 'European Empire', well I don't anyway, lets spend that money at home! A lot of the money wasted in the CAP can be saved - yes, we will need to support our hill farmers and the like, but we certainly do not need to pay the Heseltine's of this world 90K a year not to grow wheat on their most unproductive land (they laugh all the way to the bank). Oh I enjoy riding over the thousands of acres of set aside that the EU sponsors, but I think that money could be better spent in our schools and hospitals. | |||
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"Santer, yes, that was the one I was thinking of, in 1999: "In 1999, Jacques Santer, the head of the European Commission, and his fellow commissioners, were forced to resign en masse over a corruption scandal. Santer had led the Commission until it collapsed after a devastating report on fraud and nepotism attacked the EU’s executive body for serious management failings. All 20 members of the Commission stepped down, in what was described at the time as the biggest crisis in the European Commission’s history. " There have been several other major corruption scandals over the years, and of course they are still going on - a number of the new commission seem to have been investigated or convicted for fraud or something similarly disreputable. Up to E990 billion a year is a recent estimate of the possible cost of corruption in the EU. *************************** I have to say your comments here are, in my opinion, very well written, respectful, free from child-like content, totally verifiable and, (again, in my opinion), truthful. Thank you Dear, I appreciate your words. Please, try to avoid the baiting from the various members of T.W.A.T.T.s (The Wearisome, Abhorrent, Taunting Troll society.) Feeding them attracts the others." Thank you, I do try to ignore those obviously incapable of reasoned and mannered discussion lol! As Maggie used to say 'If they attack you personally, it means they have not a single political argument left' | |||
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"Most people voted out to take control nothing to do with money. But the money don't like it. Control who we sell or buy from and stop EU courts overruling UK courts. Plus EU parliament making laws that our parliament have to put into UK law, even if it made to disadvantage us crazy. Which laws were made without the UKs agreement that you don't agree with? if you don't know then you never watch the news. It took 3 year's to remove a man who preached hate and to kill. But EU law said he had rights and uk courts fwas against his human rights And how long will it take for the courts to remove a farage who also preached hatred? He preaches hatred all the time. He’s going to live in the EU where his children have now got German passports.Hell leave soon enough..
really is he hows he gona manage that? we keep being told over and over again once we leave we will find it near on impossible to move to the e.u and just going on holiday is gona be so much harder.and why have his kids got german pasdports oh yea his mrs is german so there entitled to them and correct me if im wrong ive never heard him calling for peeps to have there heads chopped off.but hey unless someo.e has the same views as you there not allowed an opinion."So explain me cleverly why he moved his business to the EU? He officially said he did not want to be affected his business by brexit. So normal people can be suffer but people like him can't? | |||
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" Which laws were made without the UKs agreement that you don't agree with? if you don't know then you never watch the news. It took 3 year's to remove a man who preached hate and to kill. But EU law said he had rights and uk courts was against his human rights " Yes, there are many such instances I disagree with, their law has an entirely different interpretation of justice to ours. | |||
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"Can we try to keep this focussed on the original question? (Worth a try.) None of my points have been debunked or proven false - they cannot be, they are true.
It's been a long thread. What benefits did you think Brexit would give you? And do you still think you will get those benefits?
My answer was as follows: "The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU.
Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like.
But no, the current deal will not fully provide these, nor restore control of our fish stocks.
Thank you for replying. And what benefits do you think the current deal will give you?
My jury is still out - it is only the start of the process but it might end the parliamentary shenanigans in that those trying to 'stop Brexit' will have to give up once it happens. But we will need a strong pro-brexit majority in the house to make any kind of a silk purse out of a sows ear. I would far rather exit on a managed WTO which would leave us in a far stronger position to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU. I suspect they will apply punitive measures in the next 14 months under the current WA.
It seems the main benefit you still hope to get is better chances to trade.
It's mostly a question of freedom from coercive control. That, in principle, is reason enough, but freedom brings with it all manner of benefits in every area of a sovereign nation's life.
You’ve said this before when you accidentally (or on purpose?) described the problems with the U.K. instead of answering the original question.
Do you have an actual concrete example of this coercive control and how is has negatively affected us?
-Matt"This expression 'coercive control' was puzzling me so I fired up the search engines. It was coined by an expert on domestic violence, Dr Evan Stark. The expression makes its way into the brexit debate when used on a pro brexit blog in a article called "Is Theresa May under the coercive control of the European Union?" The article suggests that Mrs May was “subjected to a pattern of domination that includes tactics to isolate, degrade, exploit and control”. This article is written by a member of Economists for Free Trade formerly known as Economists for Brexit. Economists for Brexit are one of the few groups that predict positive benefits to a no deal brexit. It is closely aligned with leading Brexiteers wit the advisory board including Rees Mogg, Owen Patersopn and Matt Ridley. So here we are, on a sex positive forum asking a lady for examples of how UK has been treated like a victim of domestic violence. | |||
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" Which laws were made without the UKs agreement that you don't agree with? if you don't know then you never watch the news. It took 3 year's to remove a man who preached hate and to kill. But EU law said he had rights and uk courts was against his human rights Yes, there are many such instances I disagree with, their law has an entirely different interpretation of justice to ours." Yes, and as you keep demonstrating your views are based on your own misunderstandings. Is there a particular reason you are still trying to support the opinion of someone who thinks the ECHR is something to do with the EU? -Matt | |||
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"Can we try to keep this focussed on the original question? (Worth a try.) None of my points have been debunked or proven false - they cannot be, they are true.
It's been a long thread. What benefits did you think Brexit would give you? And do you still think you will get those benefits?
My answer was as follows: "The benefit is I get to live in a country free from coercive control by a corrupt, protectionist bunch of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who do not have our best interests at heart but simply want to milk us for money to spend on their excesses and their aggressive military schemes. We will be able to trade freely round the world, or rescue British Steel if we see fit, or build our own ships at home, apply much better animal cruelty prevention laws, decide our own immigration and foreign policy etc, etc, etc and I believe prosper far more than inside the the failing block that is the EU.
Oh and I get a proper blue passport back - what's not to like.
But no, the current deal will not fully provide these, nor restore control of our fish stocks.
Thank you for replying. And what benefits do you think the current deal will give you?
My jury is still out - it is only the start of the process but it might end the parliamentary shenanigans in that those trying to 'stop Brexit' will have to give up once it happens. But we will need a strong pro-brexit majority in the house to make any kind of a silk purse out of a sows ear. I would far rather exit on a managed WTO which would leave us in a far stronger position to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU. I suspect they will apply punitive measures in the next 14 months under the current WA.
It seems the main benefit you still hope to get is better chances to trade.
It's mostly a question of freedom from coercive control. That, in principle, is reason enough, but freedom brings with it all manner of benefits in every area of a sovereign nation's life.
You’ve said this before when you accidentally (or on purpose?) described the problems with the U.K. instead of answering the original question.
Do you have an actual concrete example of this coercive control and how is has negatively affected us?
-Matt
This expression 'coercive control' was puzzling me so I fired up the search engines. It was coined by an expert on domestic violence, Dr Evan Stark. The expression makes its way into the brexit debate when used on a pro brexit blog in a article called "Is Theresa May under the coercive control of the European Union?"
The article suggests that Mrs May was “subjected to a pattern of domination that includes tactics to isolate, degrade, exploit and control”. This article is written by a member of Economists for Free Trade formerly known as Economists for Brexit. Economists for Brexit are one of the few groups that predict positive benefits to a no deal brexit. It is closely aligned with leading Brexiteers wit the advisory board including Rees Mogg, Owen Patersopn and Matt Ridley.
So here we are, on a sex positive forum asking a lady for examples of how UK has been treated like a victim of domestic violence.
"Jeez. Well thanks for the research. It seems in a lot of these cases you can trace particular phrases or wording back to a specific single source. The funniest recently had been watching the Boris-backing bots on social media malfunctioning and revealing themselves. -Matt | |||
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"Santer, yes, that was the one I was thinking of, in 1999: "In 1999, Jacques Santer, the head of the European Commission, and his fellow commissioners, were forced to resign en masse over a corruption scandal. Santer had led the Commission until it collapsed after a devastating report on fraud and nepotism attacked the EU’s executive body for serious management failings. All 20 members of the Commission stepped down, in what was described at the time as the biggest crisis in the European Commission’s history. " There have been several other major corruption scandals over the years, and of course they are still going on - a number of the new commission seem to have been investigated or convicted for fraud or something similarly disreputable. Up to E990 billion a year is a recent estimate of the possible cost of corruption in the EU. *************************** I have to say your comments here are, in my opinion, very well written, respectful, free from child-like content, totally verifiable and, (again, in my opinion), truthful. Thank you Dear, I appreciate your words. Please, try to avoid the baiting from the various members of T.W.A.T.T.s (The Wearisome, Abhorrent, Taunting Troll society.) Feeding them attracts the others. Thank you, I do try to ignore those obviously incapable of reasoned and mannered discussion lol! As Maggie used to say 'If they attack you personally, it means they have not a single political argument left' "Political argument? And what is this in this mess? Why do those who leave each time try to be smarter than experts who know economics etc. Why is it so hard to believe that the British Empire no longer exists? The truth is that no one will take the country seriously and trade agreements will be concluded on the terms of other countries rather than the UK. | |||
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" The Gov would have been prevented from saving Thomas Cook by EU regulations anyway, same with British Steel, did you not realise? And at least some of the shipbuilding which is due to go abroad, along with our fish if we do not get out........ " That is untrue. There is nothing in any regulations that prevent state ownership of any business. Only that state ownership isn't used to distort the market. The biggest operator in the North Sea is state-owned. The biggest supplier of electricity in the UK is state-owned. Most of the train operating companies are state-owned. By foreign states, not the British state. The Scottish Government recently took ownership of a shipyard in Glasgow to prevent its closure. Perfectly legal. Just as it was when the Scottish Government took ownership of Prestwick Airport to prevent its closure. Again, perfectly legal. If that's the reason you think the EU is bad for Britain, it is a reason with no substance in fact. | |||
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"Most people voted out to take control nothing to do with money. But the money don't like it. Control who we sell or buy from and stop EU courts overruling UK courts. Plus EU parliament making laws that our parliament have to put into UK law, even if it made to disadvantage us crazy. Which laws were made without the UKs agreement that you don't agree with? if you don't know then you never watch the news. It took 3 year's to remove a man who preached hate and to kill. But EU law said he had rights and uk courts fwas against his human rights And how long will it take for the courts to remove a farage who also preached hatred? He preaches hatred all the time. He’s going to live in the EU where his children have now got German passports.Hell leave soon enough..
really is he hows he gona manage that? we keep being told over and over again once we leave we will find it near on impossible to move to the e.u and just going on holiday is gona be so much harder.and why have his kids got german pasdports oh yea his mrs is german so there entitled to them and correct me if im wrong ive never heard him calling for peeps to have there heads chopped off.but hey unless someo.e has the same views as you there not allowed an opinion.
So explain me cleverly why he moved his business to the EU? He officially said he did not want to be affected his business by brexit. So normal people
can be suffer but people like him can't? "this is what i dont understand also keep being told brexit is because of new e.u tax laws comibg in yet as you say farrage moving his buisness to germany and rees mogg moving his to ireland??? dont seem like the actions of peeps wanting brexit because of e.u tax laws i would of thought ireland and germany would be the last places they would want there money in and of course people will do whats best for THEM why u think so many m.ps are against brexit fuck all to do with the country more to do with them missing out on a cushy job when there political carrers are over.i know you assume im a leaver im not i dont even vote but was under the impression when we had a vote in the u.k whoever got more votes that is what was carried out.all brexit has done is. convince me i was right to think politics is just to let the masses think they have a say now that illusion is broke perhaps we will get back to m.ps being m.ps because they give a fuck instead of them being m.ps for what they can get out of it personaly | |||
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How can it possibly be that after more than 3 years, people who voted remain still have the unshakeable belief that those who didn't vote remain give a shit about what they think, what they say or what they do? It's just ludicrously naive. Keep it up guys, you're keeping the whole world laughing.
Now, I'm sure I'll get some whiney responses - the less intelligent amongst you may just mash away at the keyboard and do an eye-roll emoticon, but to reiterate - I don't care what you think, nobody does! The sooner you former remain voters can understand that, the sooner this country will recover. | |||
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" This expression 'coercive control' was puzzling me so I fired up the search engines. It was coined by an expert on domestic violence, Dr Evan Stark. The expression makes its way into the brexit debate when used on a pro brexit blog in a article called "Is Theresa May under the coercive control of the European Union?" The article suggests that Mrs May was “subjected to a pattern of domination that includes tactics to isolate, degrade, exploit and control”. This article is written by a member of Economists for Free Trade formerly known as Economists for Brexit. Economists for Brexit are one of the few groups that predict positive benefits to a no deal brexit. It is closely aligned with leading Brexiteers wit the advisory board including Rees Mogg, Owen Patersopn and Matt Ridley. So here we are, on a sex positive forum asking a lady for examples of how UK has been treated like a victim of domestic violence. " Haha, interesting - it's not a phrase I have heard used by anyone else to apply to Brexit, and I certainly do not see Mrs May as a victim. You will find I often use words in a context people to not expect to hear them. Coercive control was defined in a new law that went on the statue books in 2015 thus: The law defines coercive control as a “continuing act, or pattern of acts, of ..... threats, humiliation and intimidation or other abuse that is used to harm, punish, or frighten their victim”. Controlling behaviour, which is also an offence under the law, is a range of acts designed to make a person subordinate or dependent." That describes to me exactly the behaviour of the EU towards the UK since 2016. Or their behaviour towards Greece in the past, and they are trying it now with Switzerland (who aren't even in the bloody EU!!) and Hungary, threatening punitive action.......I find them to be a thoroughly malevolent force. | |||
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" This expression 'coercive control' was puzzling me so I fired up the search engines. It was coined by an expert on domestic violence, Dr Evan Stark. The expression makes its way into the brexit debate when used on a pro brexit blog in a article called "Is Theresa May under the coercive control of the European Union?" The article suggests that Mrs May was “subjected to a pattern of domination that includes tactics to isolate, degrade, exploit and control”. This article is written by a member of Economists for Free Trade formerly known as Economists for Brexit. Economists for Brexit are one of the few groups that predict positive benefits to a no deal brexit. It is closely aligned with leading Brexiteers wit the advisory board including Rees Mogg, Owen Patersopn and Matt Ridley. So here we are, on a sex positive forum asking a lady for examples of how UK has been treated like a victim of domestic violence. Haha, interesting - it's not a phrase I have heard used by anyone else to apply to Brexit, and I certainly do not see Mrs May as a victim. You will find I often use words in a context people to not expect to hear them. Coercive control was defined in a new law that went on the statue books in 2015 thus: The law defines coercive control as a “continuing act, or pattern of acts, of ..... threats, humiliation and intimidation or other abuse that is used to harm, punish, or frighten their victim”. Controlling behaviour, which is also an offence under the law, is a range of acts designed to make a person subordinate or dependent." That describes to me exactly the behaviour of the EU towards the UK since 2016. Or their behaviour towards Greece in the past, and they are trying it now with Switzerland (who aren't even in the bloody EU!!) and Hungary, threatening punitive action.......I find them to be a thoroughly malevolent force." I’m sure you can give some examples of how the EU had been threatening, humiliating or intimidating us? I’ll remind you that Farage is on ‘our’ side. So his speeches in the EU chambers don’t count. -Matt | |||
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" This expression 'coercive control' was puzzling me so I fired up the search engines. It was coined by an expert on domestic violence, Dr Evan Stark. The expression makes its way into the brexit debate when used on a pro brexit blog in a article called "Is Theresa May under the coercive control of the European Union?" The article suggests that Mrs May was “subjected to a pattern of domination that includes tactics to isolate, degrade, exploit and control”. This article is written by a member of Economists for Free Trade formerly known as Economists for Brexit. Economists for Brexit are one of the few groups that predict positive benefits to a no deal brexit. It is closely aligned with leading Brexiteers wit the advisory board including Rees Mogg, Owen Patersopn and Matt Ridley. So here we are, on a sex positive forum asking a lady for examples of how UK has been treated like a victim of domestic violence. Haha, interesting - it's not a phrase I have heard used by anyone else to apply to Brexit, and I certainly do not see Mrs May as a victim. You will find I often use words in a context people to not expect to hear them. Coercive control was defined in a new law that went on the statue books in 2015 thus: The law defines coercive control as a “continuing act, or pattern of acts, of ..... threats, humiliation and intimidation or other abuse that is used to harm, punish, or frighten their victim”. Controlling behaviour, which is also an offence under the law, is a range of acts designed to make a person subordinate or dependent." That describes to me exactly the behaviour of the EU towards the UK since 2016. Or their behaviour towards Greece in the past, and they are trying it now with Switzerland (who aren't even in the bloody EU!!) and Hungary, threatening punitive action.......I find them to be a thoroughly malevolent force." So help me out, the way you perceive this EU-Uk relationship is akin to a woman in a controlling degrading relationship with a partner that uses threats, intimidation and financial control? In short a battered spouse? | |||
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" The Gov would have been prevented from saving Thomas Cook by EU regulations anyway, same with British Steel, did you not realise? And at least some of the shipbuilding which is due to go abroad, along with our fish if we do not get out........ That is untrue. There is nothing in any regulations that prevent state ownership of any business. Only that state ownership isn't used to distort the market. The biggest operator in the North Sea is state-owned. The biggest supplier of electricity in the UK is state-owned. Most of the train operating companies are state-owned. By foreign states, not the British state. The Scottish Government recently took ownership of a shipyard in Glasgow to prevent its closure. Perfectly legal. Just as it was when the Scottish Government took ownership of Prestwick Airport to prevent its closure. Again, perfectly legal. If that's the reason you think the EU is bad for Britain, it is a reason with no substance in fact. " From the first article that came up on google, a BBC news one: Under EU rules, member-state governments are allowed to provide state aid only with approval from the European Commission.... ........Do the rules prevent support for the steel industry? The EU Commission says too much steel is produced in Europe. As a result, it has been inclined to take a fairly tough line on state aid in this sector. In 2016 for example, the commission ordered Belgium to recover 211m euros in illegal state aid it had given to its steel industry. That does not mean all state aid is impossible, but the government would have to make a case that assistance was within the rules, or fell under one of the exemptions. One possibility would be to argue that the steel industry was essential for national security, but it is far from clear the commission would accept that. Do you know, having looked at a few articles about this I have found one in the Spectator which suggest the effing EU actually PULLED THE PLUG on British Steel!! "The final trigger for British Steel’s collapse into administration, however, was not low steel prices but arguably a demand from the EU for £120 million worth of payments under its Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) – which is supposed to provide an incentive for heavy polluters to cut their carbon emissions. Under the scheme, heavy industries which face international competition are given free allowances of carbon credits to meet EU demands – a circular economy of paper which does rather little to help the planet. The trouble for British Steel is that the EU has decided to stop issuing free allowances to UK firms – at least until Britain has voted to ratify the EU withdrawal agreement." If true, that is another perfect example of coercive control to a t..... | |||
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. Biggest hiccup is now that a provisional license cant be applied for and not long off for college and university applications | |||
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"As an "employer" , I'll be able to cut wages, not have to doll out sick or holiday pay, cut maternity leave to zero, persecute union types, BAN any toilet breaks whatsoever, close the canteen & my slaves will worship me for my understanding of humame interaction.. Thin/ undernourished persons only please, I have a side line in clearing industrial chimneys underground ducting &, sewers.. " That all sounds about the state that we are currently in compared to the rights, pensions etc that people had years ago. The slide has all happened whilst we have been in the EU!!! People have very short memories. | |||
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"As an "employer" , I'll be able to cut wages, not have to doll out sick or holiday pay, cut maternity leave to zero, persecute union types, BAN any toilet breaks whatsoever, close the canteen & my slaves will worship me for my understanding of humame interaction.. Thin/ undernourished persons only please, I have a side line in clearing industrial chimneys underground ducting &, sewers.. That all sounds about the state that we are currently in compared to the rights, pensions etc that people had years ago. The slide has all happened whilst we have been in the EU!!! People have very short memories." But it’s not, is it? Just your rose tinted glasses. Pensions are certainly not what they were. Of course that has nothing to do with the EU. But we certainly have more protection in terms of employee rights than at previous points in history. -Matt | |||
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"As an "employer" , I'll be able to cut wages, not have to doll out sick or holiday pay, cut maternity leave to zero, persecute union types, BAN any toilet breaks whatsoever, close the canteen & my slaves will worship me for my understanding of humame interaction.. Thin/ undernourished persons only please, I have a side line in clearing industrial chimneys underground ducting &, sewers.. That all sounds about the state that we are currently in compared to the rights, pensions etc that people had years ago. The slide has all happened whilst we have been in the EU!!! People have very short memories. But it’s not, is it? Just your rose tinted glasses. Pensions are certainly not what they were. Of course that has nothing to do with the EU. But we certainly have more protection in terms of employee rights than at previous points in history. -Matt" And many of those rights are to a much higher standard than as legislated by the EU. I would have thought if the tories were hellbent on reducing workers rights, they would have reduced them to the bare minimum that the EU requires. | |||
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" This expression 'coercive control' was puzzling me so I fired up the search engines. It was coined by an expert on domestic violence, Dr Evan Stark. The expression makes its way into the brexit debate when used on a pro brexit blog in a article called "Is Theresa May under the coercive control of the European Union?" The article suggests that Mrs May was “subjected to a pattern of domination that includes tactics to isolate, degrade, exploit and control”. This article is written by a member of Economists for Free Trade formerly known as Economists for Brexit. Economists for Brexit are one of the few groups that predict positive benefits to a no deal brexit. It is closely aligned with leading Brexiteers wit the advisory board including Rees Mogg, Owen Patersopn and Matt Ridley. So here we are, on a sex positive forum asking a lady for examples of how UK has been treated like a victim of domestic violence. Haha, interesting - it's not a phrase I have heard used by anyone else to apply to Brexit, and I certainly do not see Mrs May as a victim. You will find I often use words in a context people to not expect to hear them. Coercive control was defined in a new law that went on the statue books in 2015 thus: The law defines coercive control as a “continuing act, or pattern of acts, of ..... threats, humiliation and intimidation or other abuse that is used to harm, punish, or frighten their victim”. Controlling behaviour, which is also an offence under the law, is a range of acts designed to make a person subordinate or dependent." That describes to me exactly the behaviour of the EU towards the UK since 2016. Or their behaviour towards Greece in the past, and they are trying it now with Switzerland (who aren't even in the bloody EU!!) and Hungary, threatening punitive action.......I find them to be a thoroughly malevolent force." Your claim that use of the term 'coercive control' and context is coincidental, simply put lacks plausibility. Why was Hungary threatened with punitive actions? Because it was breaking the rules. The Law & Justice party in Poland has also being advised their policies have broken the core values of the EU. Trying to present the national government of Hungary as a bastion of freedom against the EU is beyond misleading. | |||
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"As an "employer" , I'll be able to cut wages, not have to doll out sick or holiday pay, cut maternity leave to zero, persecute union types, BAN any toilet breaks whatsoever, close the canteen & my slaves will worship me for my understanding of humame interaction.. Thin/ undernourished persons only please, I have a side line in clearing industrial chimneys underground ducting &, sewers.. That all sounds about the state that we are currently in compared to the rights, pensions etc that people had years ago. The slide has all happened whilst we have been in the EU!!! People have very short memories. But it’s not, is it? Just your rose tinted glasses. Pensions are certainly not what they were. Of course that has nothing to do with the EU. But we certainly have more protection in terms of employee rights than at previous points in history. -Matt And many of those rights are to a much higher standard than as legislated by the EU. I would have thought if the tories were hellbent on reducing workers rights, they would have reduced them to the bare minimum that the EU requires." It actually seems the tories are trying to diminish workers' rights after Brexit. You can easily look this up if you wish. | |||
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"It is possible my industry, which works with international tourists, will see increasing numbers of people visit the uk as the value of the £ plummets So my job might be safe It's a benefit of sorts in a world of shit" Clouds. Silver linings and all that. (Seriously, I hope you and your job are ok x.) | |||
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"It is possible my industry, which works with international tourists, will see increasing numbers of people visit the uk as the value of the £ plummets So my job might be safe It's a benefit of sorts in a world of shit" That would and should have happened by now. According to “Visit Britain” the number of international tourists coming to to the U.K. between 2017-2018 actually fell. Their forecast for 2019 is that the numbers may claw back to 2017 levels. #BrexitWin - who wants foreigners coming here anyway??? | |||
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"As an "employer" , I'll be able to cut wages, not have to doll out sick or holiday pay, cut maternity leave to zero, persecute union types, BAN any toilet breaks whatsoever, close the canteen & my slaves will worship me for my understanding of humame interaction.. Thin/ undernourished persons only please, I have a side line in clearing industrial chimneys underground ducting &, sewers.. That all sounds about the state that we are currently in compared to the rights, pensions etc that people had years ago. The slide has all happened whilst we have been in the EU!!! People have very short memories. But it’s not, is it? Just your rose tinted glasses. Pensions are certainly not what they were. Of course that has nothing to do with the EU. But we certainly have more protection in terms of employee rights than at previous points in history. -Matt And many of those rights are to a much higher standard than as legislated by the EU. I would have thought if the tories were hellbent on reducing workers rights, they would have reduced them to the bare minimum that the EU requires." They have literally removed those rights from the legal withdrawal bill and put them in the political declaration. Why? -Matt | |||
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