FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Will boris ask for an extension today?
Will boris ask for an extension today?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I think there are lots of twists and turns before Oct 31.
(In other words, I haven't a feckin clue  )"
Yes I think so too thete are that brexit is cancelled lol  |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
i think he may well ask but who knows what has been said by him to other leaders behind closed doors.while we are still in the e.u he is capable of throwing a spanner in the works of anything they want to be getting on with and they have important stuff coming up that needs agrement from everyone.i know lots on here think he is stupid but he is far from it.just leads people to think hes a twat
someone like him will have something up his sleeve |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"i think he may well ask but who knows what has been said by him to other leaders behind closed doors.while we are still in the e.u he is capable of throwing a spanner in the works of anything they want to be getting on with and they have important stuff coming up that needs agrement from everyone.i know lots on here think he is stupid but he is far from it.just leads people to think hes a twat
someone like him will have something up his sleeve"
He is not stupid when it comes to taking care of himself .
He is a slippery piglet.
He is a twat though. |
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"I think there are lots of twists and turns before Oct 31.
(In other words, I haven't a feckin clue )Yes I think so too thete are that brexit is cancelled lol "
I don't believe it will be cancelled but an extension is possible. It all depends on whether parliament have a proper vote or whether it'll be just an attempt at changing government. |
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
I think it will pass, albeit by a very close margin, Boris has used the DUP to get this far. He will now play one nation tory and go to the country saying he saved the country from No deal. More than likely he will win too.
The division and bitterness will be around for a long time, that is a seperate problem.
The DUP fucked themselves more than Boris did. They believed his lies and that he shared their interests. Their troubles have only just begun. |
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"The DUP fucked themselves more than Boris did. They believed his lies and that he shared their interests. Their troubles have only just begun."
I doubt they ever believed he shared their homophobic narrow minded interests. They seen personal gain with May and went for it, they met Boris who I said from day one would put the knife to their throat to either back UK interests or get out of his way.
So now they are looking for someone else to give them a billion. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I liked it how the dup said no british prime ministers will decide over us it as it was written down long time ago too, it is up to the northern irelands people  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I liked it how the dup said no british prime ministers will decide over us it as it was written down long time ago too, it is up to the northern irelands people "
They are debating it in the commons now. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Looks like half the Tories have gone home or not turned in so ...insider knowledge? "
The Letwin amendment requires the "deal" to only be approved once the necessary bills have been passed.
Time to be allowed for the 500 page document published today to be read.
For an economic assessment to be made.
All that boring, useless stuff
The Government seem to not like this very much and have gone off to sulk. |
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"Looks like half the Tories have gone home or not turned in so ...insider knowledge?
The Letwin amendment requires the "deal" to only be approved once the necessary bills have been passed.
Time to be allowed for the 500 page document published today to be read.
For an economic assessment to be made.
All that boring, useless stuff
The Government seem to not like this very much and have gone off to sulk."
You know, facts and experts. The usual enemies of the people.
(Jared o'mara has been seen in parliament, its been a while.) |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Looks like half the Tories have gone home or not turned in so ...insider knowledge?
The Letwin amendment requires the "deal" to only be approved once the necessary bills have been passed.
Time to be allowed for the 500 page document published today to be read.
For an economic assessment to be made.
All that boring, useless stuff
The Government seem to not like this very much and have gone off to sulk."
Seems you dont watch much parliament the house is never full until the vote and you cant blame them listening to some of the waffle going on.Its a bit like this forum. |
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By *izbitMan
over a year ago
St Helens |
"Looks like half the Tories have gone home or not turned in so ...insider knowledge?
The Letwin amendment requires the "deal" to only be approved once the necessary bills have been passed.
Time to be allowed for the 500 page document published today to be read.
For an economic assessment to be made.
All that boring, useless stuff
The Government seem to not like this very much and have gone off to sulk.Seems you dont watch much parliament the house is never full until the vote and you cant blame them listening to some of the waffle going on.Its a bit like this forum. "
Your assumptions are wrong then 
I do know the house very well but since this is a landmark sitting even from the very early address by the PM and statements to the house its ridiculous that empty benches are on show to the eyes of the world |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Looks like half the Tories have gone home or not turned in so ...insider knowledge?
The Letwin amendment requires the "deal" to only be approved once the necessary bills have been passed.
Time to be allowed for the 500 page document published today to be read.
For an economic assessment to be made.
All that boring, useless stuff
The Government seem to not like this very much and have gone off to sulk.Seems you dont watch much parliament the house is never full until the vote and you cant blame them listening to some of the waffle going on.Its a bit like this forum.
Your assumptions are wrong then
I do know the house very well but since this is a landmark sitting even from the very early address by the PM and statements to the house its ridiculous that empty benches are on show to the eyes of the world"
most have made their minds up and no end of waffle is going to change their minds. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Looks like half the Tories have gone home or not turned in so ...insider knowledge?
The Letwin amendment requires the "deal" to only be approved once the necessary bills have been passed.
Time to be allowed for the 500 page document published today to be read.
For an economic assessment to be made.
All that boring, useless stuff
The Government seem to not like this very much and have gone off to sulk.Seems you dont watch much parliament the house is never full until the vote and you cant blame them listening to some of the waffle going on.Its a bit like this forum. "
Like May supporting a slight modification of her bill but with fewer of the redlines included? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Looks like half the Tories have gone home or not turned in so ...insider knowledge?
The Letwin amendment requires the "deal" to only be approved once the necessary bills have been passed.
Time to be allowed for the 500 page document published today to be read.
For an economic assessment to be made.
All that boring, useless stuff
The Government seem to not like this very much and have gone off to sulk.Seems you dont watch much parliament the house is never full until the vote and you cant blame them listening to some of the waffle going on.Its a bit like this forum.
Your assumptions are wrong then
I do know the house very well but since this is a landmark sitting even from the very early address by the PM and statements to the house its ridiculous that empty benches are on show to the eyes of the worldmost have made their minds up and no end of waffle is going to change their minds."
Most probably
The Brexit beast needs one of two things
Either a rocket up it's ass and just get it done
Or
A bullet to the brain and throw it's carcass in the skip
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Looks like half the Tories have gone home or not turned in so ...insider knowledge?
The Letwin amendment requires the "deal" to only be approved once the necessary bills have been passed.
Time to be allowed for the 500 page document published today to be read.
For an economic assessment to be made.
All that boring, useless stuff
The Government seem to not like this very much and have gone off to sulk.Seems you dont watch much parliament the house is never full until the vote and you cant blame them listening to some of the waffle going on.Its a bit like this forum.
Your assumptions are wrong then
I do know the house very well but since this is a landmark sitting even from the very early address by the PM and statements to the house its ridiculous that empty benches are on show to the eyes of the worldmost have made their minds up and no end of waffle is going to change their minds.
Most probably
The Brexit beast needs one of two things
Either a rocket up it's ass and just get it done
Or
A bullet to the brain and throw it's carcass in the skip
"
It won't be "done" for decades.
That phrase is the biggest lie of all. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"and there is now a rumour that the DUP may... may... come in favour of a 2nd referendum
since johnson has stabbed them in the back... there vengence is coming....  "
excellent best news in ages |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
"Breaking news . Johnson is in a ditch
Yeah, great news best place for him. "
best place for all of em cant wait till they start canvassing will be asked once to get of my property if tjey dont will drag em out my gate dont care what party they are from.think its great eatching em all run round like headless chickens still think boris has either got something in place already or holding something back he a sly fucker well they all are he just more sly than the rest of em |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"and there is now a rumour that the DUP may... may... come in favour of a 2nd referendum
since johnson has stabbed them in the back... there vengence is coming.... "
Of course it’s now a choice for the DUP to remain within the UK via a second referendum or be outside the UK and closer to the EU with the Boris deal.
The DUP are now thinking they are better off as remainers ... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"and there is now a rumour that the DUP may... may... come in favour of a 2nd referendum
since johnson has stabbed them in the back... there vengence is coming....
Of course it’s now a choice for the DUP to remain within the UK via a second referendum or be outside the UK and closer to the EU with the Boris deal.
The DUP are now thinking they are better off as remainers ... "
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"and there is now a rumour that the DUP may... may... come in favour of a 2nd referendum
since johnson has stabbed them in the back... there vengence is coming.... "
Who would have thought that a Tory Toff, Sir Oliver Letwin, and the DUP's Nigel Dodds, would become heroes of the Left! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"and there is now a rumour that the DUP may... may... come in favour of a 2nd referendum
since johnson has stabbed them in the back... there vengence is coming....
Who would have thought that a Tory Toff, Sir Oliver Letwin, and the DUP's Nigel Dodds, would become heroes of the Left! "
You know what’s stranger.Farage is talking like a remainer.. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"and there is now a rumour that the DUP may... may... come in favour of a 2nd referendum
since johnson has stabbed them in the back... there vengence is coming....
Who would have thought that a Tory Toff, Sir Oliver Letwin, and the DUP's Nigel Dodds, would become heroes of the Left!
You know what’s stranger.Farage is talking like a remainer.."
Maybe the mood is changing. I think even Farage realises that the sort of Brexit that he advocates is largely impossible.
Continually going cap in hand to the EU, is never an attractive look. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think he will do that which means that brexit is cancelled on the 31st october "
He can ask but he’s not likely to get, by the sound of it. Has to be unanimously agreed by EU and at least one not in favour. So.....election, anyone? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"and there is now a rumour that the DUP may... may... come in favour of a 2nd referendum
since johnson has stabbed them in the back... there vengence is coming....
Who would have thought that a Tory Toff, Sir Oliver Letwin, and the DUP's Nigel Dodds, would become heroes of the Left!
You know what’s stranger.Farage is talking like a remainer..
Maybe the mood is changing. I think even Farage realises that the sort of Brexit that he advocates is largely impossible.
Continually going cap in hand to the EU, is never an attractive look. "
I have also noticed that he is doing that, all of these populist leaders will sooner or later realise that their plan wont work, even boris is a secret remainer. |
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"I think he will do that which means that brexit is cancelled on the 31st october
He can ask but he’s not likely to get, by the sound of it. Has to be unanimously agreed by EU and at least one not in favour. So.....election, anyone?"
If he wants to be twattish he can ask for an extension but not bother negotiating
(didn't expect that result though) 52-48 thereabouts. parliament can be better than scripted TV. |
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"and there is now a rumour that the DUP may... may... come in favour of a 2nd referendum
since johnson has stabbed them in the back... there vengence is coming....
Who would have thought that a Tory Toff, Sir Oliver Letwin, and the DUP's Nigel Dodds, would become heroes of the Left!
You know what’s stranger.Farage is talking like a remainer..
Maybe the mood is changing. I think even Farage realises that the sort of Brexit that he advocates is largely impossible.
Continually going cap in hand to the EU, is never an attractive look. I have also noticed that he is doing that, all of these populist leaders will sooner or later realise that their plan wont work, even boris is a secret remainer."
bit like Corbyn been a secret leaver ? |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
i think the weirdest thing about today now ending up with people as very strange bedfellows (nigel dodds speech about NI and the unionists there being sold out which made a lot of conservative MPs look very sheepish)
I wonder how many of the infamous "spartans" who all said they would stick with the DUP thru thick and thin will now have 2nd thoughts....
also the other thing that got my attention is that amount of people who said this deal was a really bad deal.... but would hold their noses and vote for it anyway! which in a way is really really depressing |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"i think the weirdest thing about today now ending up with people as very strange bedfellows (nigel dodds speech about NI and the unionists there being sold out which made a lot of conservative MPs look very sheepish)
I wonder how many of the infamous "spartans" who all said they would stick with the DUP thru thick and thin will now have 2nd thoughts....
also the other thing that got my attention is that amount of people who said this deal was a really bad deal.... but would hold their noses and vote for it anyway! which in a way is really really depressing"
You do not get it Fabio we are all pissed off with all the childish crap that you seem to enjoy |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"i think the weirdest thing about today now ending up with people as very strange bedfellows (nigel dodds speech about NI and the unionists there being sold out which made a lot of conservative MPs look very sheepish)
I wonder how many of the infamous "spartans" who all said they would stick with the DUP thru thick and thin will now have 2nd thoughts....
also the other thing that got my attention is that amount of people who said this deal was a really bad deal.... but would hold their noses and vote for it anyway! which in a way is really really depressingYou do not get it Fabio we are all pissed off with all the childish crap that you seem to enjoy"
Not really.
Childish crap is expecting a 500 page legal document released today and effecting our country's future should be votes on immediately. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
The letter has gone in but not signed by Boris Johnson.
It's also accompanyed by a covering letter saying that we don't really want an extension, and that the first letter is just there so we obey the law!
High games and chicanery at its finest. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The letter has gone in but not signed by Boris Johnson.
It's also accompanyed by a covering letter saying that we don't really want an extension, and that the first letter is just there so we obey the law!
High games and chicanery at its finest. "
Oh that crazy Etonian. Always clowning around.
It's even more hilarious when he's the Prime Minister of our country  |
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"The letter has gone in but not signed by Boris Johnson.
It's also accompanyed by a covering letter saying that we don't really want an extension, and that the first letter is just there so we obey the law!
High games and chicanery at its finest. "
Isn't there some paragraph in the Benn act that forbids Boris from doing that? That says the PM must sign it? That says he has broken the law if he attempts to thwart the spirit of the request for the extension?
I hope that we have the high court on speed dial for Monday morning. The repeated assurances given by number 10 to the judges that Mr Johnson was certainly going to obey the law - judges tend to get really pissed off with anybody that demonstrates contempt for their verdicts... |
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If the prime minister is allowed to successfully ignore the law, does this not create a precedent that invalidates all law? Next time i get a speeding ticket i shall argue that if the law of the country does not apply to the highest ranking member of the government, then the law of the country does not apply to any citizen of the country. The PM is in no way exempt from law, in fact any breach of the law by him or any member of his cabinet should be treated with the utmost severity. Or the whole of the law becomes utterly meaningless. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The letter has gone in but not signed by Boris Johnson.
It's also accompanyed by a covering letter saying that we don't really want an extension, and that the first letter is just there so we obey the law!
High games and chicanery at its finest. "
I’d call it rare honesty ! |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"The letter has gone in but not signed by Boris Johnson.
It's also accompanyed by a covering letter saying that we don't really want an extension, and that the first letter is just there so we obey the law!
High games and chicanery at its finest. "
and i bet the scottish high court will go absolutely spare on monday, as that was not the assurance they were given....
I wonder if they will find him in contempt of court.... i also wonder if an injunction will go in to try and stop the proceedings.... |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"The letter has gone in but not signed by Boris Johnson.
It's also accompanyed by a covering letter saying that we don't really want an extension, and that the first letter is just there so we obey the law!
High games and chicanery at its finest.
Isn't there some paragraph in the Benn act that forbids Boris from doing that? That says the PM must sign it? That says he has broken the law if he attempts to thwart the spirit of the request for the extension?
I hope that we have the high court on speed dial for Monday morning. The repeated assurances given by number 10 to the judges that Mr Johnson was certainly going to obey the law - judges tend to get really pissed off with anybody that demonstrates contempt for their verdicts..."
Indeed. The court explicitly stated that he must not try to “frustrate the process”. Which is what he is now doing. So he is acting in contempt of the courts.
-Matt |
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I have heard some of the more extreme end of the brexit spectrum say that the Benn Act is a piece of 'non-legislation' because it does not have any provision for legal sanctions against any (de Pfeffel) if ignored. This sort of sums up the hardline brexiteers because it ignores the fact that any deliberate breach of law by a person holding 'Public Office' (PM is the highest public office in Executive) is either the crime of 'Misconduct in Public Office' or Corrupting Public Office', both of which carry a maximum of life in prison. For all their sneering bluster I doubt that either de Pfeffel, JRM is willing to risk that punishment after giving a court assurances that they would not impede the will of Parliament. |
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"If Bercow ends up signing the letter if asked by the courts or parliament then the Brexiteers will explode... "
I think Boris would be quite happy for Bernie to sign it, if a signature is actually required as Tusk seems to have accepted it as it stands...
Boris has made it quite clear - this is Parliaments letter |
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"Be realistic, are you suggesting the British Prime Minister will ignore parliamentary sovereignty."
It is not a suggestion, it is now a documented fact that the British PM has ignored both parliamentary sovereignty and the judgement of the high court. He has knowingly and deliberately broken the law while occupying the highest position in the executive.
It's going to be very interesting to see what the courts do with him. What is certain is that he is finished in politics. It may take a while for the consequences to play out, but BJ has just finished himself off. Dead in a ditch indeed. |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
"Be realistic, are you suggesting the British Prime Minister will ignore parliamentary sovereignty.
It is not a suggestion, it is now a documented fact that the British PM has ignored both parliamentary sovereignty and the judgement of the high court. He has knowingly and deliberately broken the law while occupying the highest position in the executive.
It's going to be very interesting to see what the courts do with him. What is certain is that he is finished in politics. It may take a while for the consequences to play out, but BJ has just finished himself off. Dead in a ditch indeed."
i wouldnt be at all surprised if there is a GE Soon he will be back as p.m again.all those leavers now know who will see it through and who will stop it so they have one party to vote for most remainers will go lib dem as they want to stop it and who knows who will vote labour |
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"I don't know why he doesn't resign, if he doesn't want to sign it, surely that's the way to go?"
He's only in the Brexit catastrophe to gain and sustain the PM job, so that would be the opposite to his objective. He's a busted flush, of limited abilities, a serial liar and incompetent. Unfit for public office of any nature. |
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I suspect that whether GE or not, BJ will shortly be losing his job and not returning. The offences he has committed allow for a penalty up to life imprisonment, but i should think at the very least he can expect being banned from holding public office. There will also be pressure for a full investigation of his relationship with the American floozy, which may lead to opening up his financial affairs. Given that this could be a loose end that when pulled might give hard evidence about the whole network of deceit and financial/political wrongdoing surrounding the last several years of politics... Dead in a ditch indeed, would not be surprised. |
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"I don't know why he doesn't resign, if he doesn't want to sign it, surely that's the way to go?
He's only in the Brexit catastrophe to gain and sustain the PM job, so that would be the opposite to his objective. He's a busted flush, of limited abilities, a serial liar and incompetent. Unfit for public office of any nature."
I agree with everything you said However barring a scandal of astronomical proportion, he is likely to win a GE. The opposition are divided & JC isn't prime minister material. |
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"I suspect that whether GE or not, BJ will shortly be losing his job and not returning. The offences he has committed allow for a penalty up to life imprisonment, but i should think at the very least he can expect being banned from holding public office. There will also be pressure for a full investigation of his relationship with the American floozy, which may lead to opening up his financial affairs. Given that this could be a loose end that when pulled might give hard evidence about the whole network of deceit and financial/political wrongdoing surrounding the last several years of politics... Dead in a ditch indeed, would not be surprised."
Would be amazing if he went to prison, while Blair continued to enjoy freedom! |
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"I suspect that whether GE or not, BJ will shortly be losing his job and not returning. The offences he has committed allow for a penalty up to life imprisonment, but i should think at the very least he can expect being banned from holding public office. There will also be pressure for a full investigation of his relationship with the American floozy, which may lead to opening up his financial affairs. Given that this could be a loose end that when pulled might give hard evidence about the whole network of deceit and financial/political wrongdoing surrounding the last several years of politics... Dead in a ditch indeed, would not be surprised.
Would be amazing if he went to prison, while Blair continued to enjoy freedom! "
Problem with getting Blair has always been proving he actually broke the law. BJ however has just done it in full view of the entire world. There is no doubt whatsoever of his guilt, only what sanctions will be taken against him. |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Don't underestimate boris he keep within the law, but still get his way. He may act the fool but he's one off life's winner's. "
But he isn’t keeping within the law. That is the point. He has just flagrantly acted in contempt of court. The only question is what will the courts do about it?
-Matt |
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"Don't underestimate boris he keep within the law, but still get his way. He may act the fool but he's one off life's winner's. "
But boris has not kept within the law, he has already broken it. The Benn act expressly forbade attempting to thwart it's intention by sending multiple letters. He gave an undertaking to the Scottish high court that he would obey the law. He has deliberately, wilfully and knowingly broken the law, while occupying the highest seat of the executive. The courts must now apply the maximum possible sanctions, otherwise the very basis of the totality of law is destroyed. If the prime minister will not obey the law, and is allowed to ignore the law, then there is no law. |
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"Don't underestimate boris he keep within the law, but still get his way. He may act the fool but he's one off life's winner's.
But boris has not kept within the law, he has already broken it. The Benn act expressly forbade attempting to thwart it's intention by sending multiple letters. He gave an undertaking to the Scottish high court that he would obey the law. He has deliberately, wilfully and knowingly broken the law, while occupying the highest seat of the executive. The courts must now apply the maximum possible sanctions, otherwise the very basis of the totality of law is destroyed. If the prime minister will not obey the law, and is allowed to ignore the law, then there is no law."
And yet the EU have received and acknowledged the letter and have acted upon it ...
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"Don't underestimate boris he keep within the law, but still get his way. He may act the fool but he's one off life's winner's.
But boris has not kept within the law, he has already broken it. The Benn act expressly forbade attempting to thwart it's intention by sending multiple letters. He gave an undertaking to the Scottish high court that he would obey the law. He has deliberately, wilfully and knowingly broken the law, while occupying the highest seat of the executive. The courts must now apply the maximum possible sanctions, otherwise the very basis of the totality of law is destroyed. If the prime minister will not obey the law, and is allowed to ignore the law, then there is no law.
And yet the EU have received and acknowledged the letter and have acted upon it ...
"
That is a completely separate matter now. The documented fact is that Johnson attempted to subvert the intention of the letter, after having given (via his lawyers) assurances to the high court of Scotland that he would not. He involved Lord Keen, the UK government’s law officer for Scotland, in lying to the court. This is no longer a trival matter like lying to the public or lying to his previous employers (several of whom have dismissed him for this offence). This is the prime minister, and officers of his government, disrupting the very basis of the law.
We have heard a lot over the last three years about "the death of democracy". This is now about the death of the law and the death of the entire constitution.
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"Don't underestimate boris he keep within the law, but still get his way. He may act the fool but he's one off life's winner's.
But boris has not kept within the law, he has already broken it. The Benn act expressly forbade attempting to thwart it's intention by sending multiple letters. He gave an undertaking to the Scottish high court that he would obey the law. He has deliberately, wilfully and knowingly broken the law, while occupying the highest seat of the executive. The courts must now apply the maximum possible sanctions, otherwise the very basis of the totality of law is destroyed. If the prime minister will not obey the law, and is allowed to ignore the law, then there is no law.
And yet the EU have received and acknowledged the letter and have acted upon it ...
That is a completely separate matter now. The documented fact is that Johnson attempted to subvert the intention of the letter, after having given (via his lawyers) assurances to the high court of Scotland that he would not. He involved Lord Keen, the UK government’s law officer for Scotland, in lying to the court. This is no longer a trival matter like lying to the public or lying to his previous employers (several of whom have dismissed him for this offence). This is the prime minister, and officers of his government, disrupting the very basis of the law.
We have heard a lot over the last three years about "the death of democracy". This is now about the death of the law and the death of the entire constitution.
"
He has done what the law required him to do. |
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"Don't underestimate boris he keep within the law, but still get his way. He may act the fool but he's one off life's winner's.
But boris has not kept within the law, he has already broken it. The Benn act expressly forbade attempting to thwart it's intention by sending multiple letters. He gave an undertaking to the Scottish high court that he would obey the law. He has deliberately, wilfully and knowingly broken the law, while occupying the highest seat of the executive. The courts must now apply the maximum possible sanctions, otherwise the very basis of the totality of law is destroyed. If the prime minister will not obey the law, and is allowed to ignore the law, then there is no law.
And yet the EU have received and acknowledged the letter and have acted upon it ...
That is a completely separate matter now. The documented fact is that Johnson attempted to subvert the intention of the letter, after having given (via his lawyers) assurances to the high court of Scotland that he would not. He involved Lord Keen, the UK government’s law officer for Scotland, in lying to the court. This is no longer a trival matter like lying to the public or lying to his previous employers (several of whom have dismissed him for this offence). This is the prime minister, and officers of his government, disrupting the very basis of the law.
We have heard a lot over the last three years about "the death of democracy". This is now about the death of the law and the death of the entire constitution.
He has done what the law required him to do."
But he has not. He did not sign the letter, therefore it was not an official letter from the PM. The Benn act also expressly forbade him from sending any second letter or otherwise interferring with the intention of asking for an extension. He has deliberately acted against the law. Furthermore he has demonstrated contempt for the high court of Scotland, by giving assurances to the judges that he would obey the law, then going against those assurances.
It is no longer anything to do with the outcome of his actions, with the eventual result of brexit. The offence has been committed, it is publicly documented, it is a matter of fact. All that remains is to see what sanctions ensue. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The question for the court will be whether the 2nd letter is an attempt to frustrate the objective of the first, which is a legal requirement.
If a court rules it is an attempt to frustrate the law, he is in big trouble. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Constitutionally, the United Kingdom is triangular.
Parliament - sets the law.
Monarch - assents to the law.
Courts - uphold the law.
The courts also act as the guardian of the constitution.
People say it is not written down, and in one sense they are right.
No-one has issued a mummy's guide.
It is all stored in the rulings of the court down through history. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
No one knows what he sent just tweeter hear say.
But you can bet he been advised by the best and is fire proof. So stop getting all excited he's going nowhere. |
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"The question for the court will be whether the 2nd letter is an attempt to frustrate the objective of the first, which is a legal requirement.
If a court rules it is an attempt to frustrate the law, he is in big trouble."
The law said he must send a letter requesting an extension .
That’s been done
The law doesn’t say that must be his policy
The law doesn’t say he can no longer communicate with the EU
The brexit blockers are really panicking now ! |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
I'm not a lawyer so I do not know. That is the opinion of pieces by QCs that I have read.
It'll be like Catalonia.
A martyr for the cause, willing to risk jail time.
Half the people hail a hero and half condemn a villain.
It's what nationalism does to countries.
Catalonians in Spain, English in the UK. |
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"I'm not a lawyer so I do not know. That is the opinion of pieces by QCs that I have read.
It'll be like Catalonia.
A martyr for the cause, willing to risk jail time.
Half the people hail a hero and half condemn a villain.
It's what nationalism does to countries.
Catalonians in Spain, English in the UK."
Neither am I, and I’m sure we’ve both read the same QC opinion pieces.
Let the courts decide
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"I'm not a lawyer so I do not know. That is the opinion of pieces by QCs that I have read.
It'll be like Catalonia.
A martyr for the cause, willing to risk jail time.
Half the people hail a hero and half condemn a villain.
It's what nationalism does to countries.
Catalonians in Spain, English in the UK.
Neither am I, and I’m sure we’ve both read the same QC opinion pieces.
Let the courts decide
"
Generally in matters of Civil Law it is incumbent on all parties to act in good faith and use their best endeavours to ensure the Will of court prevails. Failure to do so by anybody could be considered a contempt. |
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"I'm not a lawyer so I do not know. That is the opinion of pieces by QCs that I have read.
It'll be like Catalonia.
A martyr for the cause, willing to risk jail time.
Half the people hail a hero and half condemn a villain.
It's what nationalism does to countries.
Catalonians in Spain, English in the UK.
Neither am I, and I’m sure we’ve both read the same QC opinion pieces.
Let the courts decide
Generally in matters of Civil Law it is incumbent on all parties to act in good faith and use their best endeavours to ensure the Will of court prevails. Failure to do so by anybody could be considered a contempt."
Have the EU indicated they have not accepted the Benn letter and what it is asking as they have been confused by the presence of other documents sent at the same time .
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
What have we come to when the courts are slowly taking over from parliament.
Only2 weeks ago miller won a court case and put her above the queen a reopened parliament, the world's gone mad. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think he will do that which means that brexit is cancelled on the 31st october "
He will to comply with the law, but :
1. he could word it to insult the eu and reject an extension.
2. The EU are also fed up and just want it ended, and reject an extension |
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"What have we come to when the courts are slowly taking over from parliament.
Only2 weeks ago miller won a court case and put her above the queen a reopened parliament, the world's gone mad. "
The courts are in no way taking over from parliament.
The duty of the courts is to uphold the law that has been laid down by parliament.
This includes preventing the government of the day (which is a totally different thing from parliament) from breaking the law.
If you fail to understand this distinction, then you fail to understand the entire basis of the constitution. |
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"What have we come to when the courts are slowly taking over from parliament.
Only2 weeks ago miller won a court case and put her above the queen a reopened parliament, the world's gone mad. "
No the courts can't make law. Only enforce the laws set down by parliament and assented by the monarch. If the government tries to break the law the courts will pull them up on it. If the government doesn't like a law they need to repeal it through parliament. |
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"What have we come to when the courts are slowly taking over from parliament.
Only2 weeks ago miller won a court case and put her above the queen a reopened parliament, the world's gone mad.
The courts are in no way taking over from parliament.
The duty of the courts is to uphold the law that has been laid down by parliament.
This includes preventing the government of the day (which is a totally different thing from parliament) from breaking the law.
If you fail to understand this distinction, then you fail to understand the entire basis of the constitution."
Ha! Should have read the rest of the thread. And you said it better than I did |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
That is a completely separate matter now. The documented fact is that Johnson attempted to subvert the intention of the letter, after having given (via his lawyers) assurances to the high court of Scotland that he would not. He involved Lord Keen, the UK government’s law officer for Scotland, in lying to the court. This is no longer a trival matter like lying to the public or lying to his previous employers (several of whom have dismissed him for this offence). This is the prime minister, and officers of his government, disrupting the very basis of the law.
We have heard a lot over the last three years about "the death of democracy". This is now about the death of the law and the death of the entire constitution.
"
bingo.... this is why i would NOT want to be lord keen in the Edinburgh high court at 10.30 tomorrow morning..... because he is going to have to explain what trick johnson is trying to pull after signing an affidavit saying that he would stay within both the letter and the spirit of the law...
1st question will be... did you know this was the plan?
2nd question will be.... why should I not find your client in contempt of court?
and then the legal fun and games begin... again! |
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"
That is a completely separate matter now. The documented fact is that Johnson attempted to subvert the intention of the letter, after having given (via his lawyers) assurances to the high court of Scotland that he would not. He involved Lord Keen, the UK government’s law officer for Scotland, in lying to the court. This is no longer a trival matter like lying to the public or lying to his previous employers (several of whom have dismissed him for this offence). This is the prime minister, and officers of his government, disrupting the very basis of the law.
We have heard a lot over the last three years about "the death of democracy". This is now about the death of the law and the death of the entire constitution.
bingo.... this is why i would NOT want to be lord keen in the Edinburgh high court at 10.30 tomorrow morning..... because he is going to have to explain what trick johnson is trying to pull after signing an affidavit saying that he would stay within both the letter and the spirit of the law...
1st question will be... did you know this was the plan?
2nd question will be.... why should I not find your client in contempt of court?
and then the legal fun and games begin... again! "
Or he could simply say .... have the EU confirmed they have received a request for an extension and they are now discussing that request? If the answer is yes, why are you in front of me now ?
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"
1st question will be... did you know this was the plan?
2nd question will be.... why should I not find your client in contempt of court?
and then the legal fun and games begin... again! "
There were a few articles in the media after the Benn act that were suggesting that he might do something like this. I don't think they would have suggested it without an off the record briefing. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I keep looking for a ballot paper that said do you want to leave the eu yes or no or deal or no deal I cant remember seeing a fucking box that said leave with a deal "
How did you come to the conclusion that leaving the EU would be a good idea?
How did other people?
What were the consequences of leaving the EU as told by the Leave campaign? What were the options offered? |
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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago
Derry |
"I keep looking for a ballot paper that said do you want to leave the eu yes or no or deal or no deal I cant remember seeing a fucking box that said leave with a deal "
Ask a stupid question and you get a stupid answer, I suppose. |
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"
That is a completely separate matter now. The documented fact is that Johnson attempted to subvert the intention of the letter, after having given (via his lawyers) assurances to the high court of Scotland that he would not. He involved Lord Keen, the UK government’s law officer for Scotland, in lying to the court. This is no longer a trival matter like lying to the public or lying to his previous employers (several of whom have dismissed him for this offence). This is the prime minister, and officers of his government, disrupting the very basis of the law.
We have heard a lot over the last three years about "the death of democracy". This is now about the death of the law and the death of the entire constitution.
bingo.... this is why i would NOT want to be lord keen in the Edinburgh high court at 10.30 tomorrow morning..... because he is going to have to explain what trick johnson is trying to pull after signing an affidavit saying that he would stay within both the letter and the spirit of the law...
1st question will be... did you know this was the plan?
2nd question will be.... why should I not find your client in contempt of court?
and then the legal fun and games begin... again!
Or he could simply say .... have the EU confirmed they have received a request for an extension and they are now discussing that request? If the answer is yes, why are you in front of me now ?
"
Or he could say ... Did the prime minister send a request for the EU to disregard his letter asking for an extension, after having given a solomn undertaking to this court that he would not attempt to undermine the law? Has the prime minister attempted to negatively influence the decision of the EU, against the express orders of parliament as voted into law? If the answer is yes, bring him here to answer in person for his contempt of court. |
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"
That is a completely separate matter now. The documented fact is that Johnson attempted to subvert the intention of the letter, after having given (via his lawyers) assurances to the high court of Scotland that he would not. He involved Lord Keen, the UK government’s law officer for Scotland, in lying to the court. This is no longer a trival matter like lying to the public or lying to his previous employers (several of whom have dismissed him for this offence). This is the prime minister, and officers of his government, disrupting the very basis of the law.
We have heard a lot over the last three years about "the death of democracy". This is now about the death of the law and the death of the entire constitution.
bingo.... this is why i would NOT want to be lord keen in the Edinburgh high court at 10.30 tomorrow morning..... because he is going to have to explain what trick johnson is trying to pull after signing an affidavit saying that he would stay within both the letter and the spirit of the law...
1st question will be... did you know this was the plan?
2nd question will be.... why should I not find your client in contempt of court?
and then the legal fun and games begin... again!
Or he could simply say .... have the EU confirmed they have received a request for an extension and they are now discussing that request? If the answer is yes, why are you in front of me now ?
Or he could say ... Did the prime minister send a request for the EU to disregard his letter asking for an extension, after having given a solomn undertaking to this court that he would not attempt to undermine the law? Has the prime minister attempted to negatively influence the decision of the EU, against the express orders of parliament as voted into law? If the answer is yes, bring him here to answer in person for his contempt of court."
Your questions would not be within the requirements of the Benn act
He has complied with the letter of the law |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"What have we come to when the courts are slowly taking over from parliament.
Only2 weeks ago miller won a court case and put her above the queen a reopened parliament, the world's gone mad. "
No.
The courts are upholding the law.
I'm grateful someone is.
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
Your questions would not be within the requirements of the Benn act
He has complied with the letter of the law "
see this is the part that you seem to have missed....
there was then a case in the edinburgh high court that was going to make him adhere to signing the extention if the benn act was applied (because people saw that they may try some tricks)
Lord keen on behalf of the uk government and boris johnson both sign affidavits to they would act within both the letter and the spirit of the law... and it was on that assumption a verdict was "stayed".....
now that case comes back up in the edinburgh high court tomorrow morning!
that's why he could be found in contempt of court |
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"
Your questions would not be within the requirements of the Benn act
He has complied with the letter of the law
see this is the part that you seem to have missed....
there was then a case in the edinburgh high court that was going to make him adhere to signing the extention if the benn act was applied (because people saw that they may try some tricks)
Lord keen on behalf of the uk government and boris johnson both sign affidavits to they would act within both the letter and the spirit of the law... and it was on that assumption a verdict was "stayed".....
now that case comes back up in the edinburgh high court tomorrow morning!
that's why he could be found in contempt of court"
Do the phone calls to Tusk, Macron and Merkel on Saturday evening, before sending the letter, constitute not acting within the spirit of the law ?
Given the Benn act was used to prevent a no-deal crash out, he brought back a new negotiated deal ... which he has said has always been his desired outcome ...
Where is the “not acting within the spirit of the law”?
Have his actions in the last 48 hours had a huge detrimental effect on the process going forward ?
Wouldn’t be surprised if the court doesn’t spend very long on this .. |
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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago
Huddersfield /derby cinemas |
Would love to hear the reaction if Jeremy Corbyn had (a) shut down parliament ... (b) sent a letter to the EU without signing it ..,, (c) decided to place a border down the Irish Sea |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
That is a completely separate matter now. The documented fact is that Johnson attempted to subvert the intention of the letter, after having given (via his lawyers) assurances to the high court of Scotland that he would not. He involved Lord Keen, the UK government’s law officer for Scotland, in lying to the court. This is no longer a trival matter like lying to the public or lying to his previous employers (several of whom have dismissed him for this offence). This is the prime minister, and officers of his government, disrupting the very basis of the law.
We have heard a lot over the last three years about "the death of democracy". This is now about the death of the law and the death of the entire constitution.
bingo.... this is why i would NOT want to be lord keen in the Edinburgh high court at 10.30 tomorrow morning..... because he is going to have to explain what trick johnson is trying to pull after signing an affidavit saying that he would stay within both the letter and the spirit of the law...
1st question will be... did you know this was the plan?
2nd question will be.... why should I not find your client in contempt of court?
and then the legal fun and games begin... again!
Or he could simply say .... have the EU confirmed they have received a request for an extension and they are now discussing that request? If the answer is yes, why are you in front of me now ?
Or he could say ... Did the prime minister send a request for the EU to disregard his letter asking for an extension, after having given a solomn undertaking to this court that he would not attempt to undermine the law? Has the prime minister attempted to negatively influence the decision of the EU, against the express orders of parliament as voted into law? If the answer is yes, bring him here to answer in person for his contempt of court.
Your questions would not be within the requirements of the Benn act
He has complied with the letter of the law "
You are correct. The letter of the law was followed.
It's not the thing itself. It's the cover-up. It's the lying.
The government made an assurance. The lawyer, as ever, was stitched up by his client.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49975066
'Lawyers for the UK government argued that international relations should be the responsibility of ministers rather than the courts and that the government was entitled to promote its own policies, provided it does so "lawfully" and without "frustrating" legislation passed by MPs.'
The second letter would frustrate the legislation.
The courts don't like that sort of thing much. |
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"I keep looking for a ballot paper that said do you want to leave the eu yes or no or deal or no deal I cant remember seeing a fucking box that said leave with a deal "
And I don't remember seeing a box on the ballot paper saying "Leave the EU (but not in the way you've been promised with a new deal but without one at all)". I guess the ballot paper just wasn't big enough to fit all that in. |
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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago
Huddersfield /derby cinemas |
"I keep looking for a ballot paper that said do you want to leave the eu yes or no or deal or no deal I cant remember seeing a fucking box that said leave with a deal
And I don't remember seeing a box on the ballot paper saying "Leave the EU (but not in the way you've been promised with a new deal but without one at all)". I guess the ballot paper just wasn't big enough to fit all that in."
. The DUP appear to be having the same problem , they think they remember voting leave but can't recall the bit about the border down The Irish Sea |
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The year is 2192. The British Prime Minister visits Brussels to ask for an extension of the Brexit deadline. No one remembers where this tradition originated, but every year it attracts many tourists from all over the world. |
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"The year is 2192. The British Prime Minister visits Brussels to ask for an extension of the Brexit deadline. No one remembers where this tradition originated, but every year it attracts many tourists from all over the world."
LoLs |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The year is 2192. The British Prime Minister visits Brussels to ask for an extension of the Brexit deadline. No one remembers where this tradition originated, but every year it attracts many tourists from all over the world."
Look up the five monkeys experiment |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The year is 2192. The British Prime Minister visits Brussels to ask for an extension of the Brexit deadline. No one remembers where this tradition originated, but every year it attracts many tourists from all over the world."
.
What with all this climate emergency 12 years before Armageddon we did well to get that far  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The year is 2192. The British Prime Minister visits Brussels to ask for an extension of the Brexit deadline. No one remembers where this tradition originated, but every year it attracts many tourists from all over the world."
Saw this on Facebook yesterday |
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"The year is 2192. The British Prime Minister visits Brussels to ask for an extension of the Brexit deadline. No one remembers where this tradition originated, but every year it attracts many tourists from all over the world.
Saw this on Facebook yesterday "
It's still worth a share today! |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"May not come to anything tomorrow anyway... the anti-brexit folks are asking the Court to delay making a ruling on the matter...
As I said earlier....
"
sort of...... the UK govt made the case that he has complied with everything and actually wanted the case dismissed.....
the court said..... not so fast there! lets see if an extension is offered and is accepted!
they are going to make him have to go thru with it!!! |
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