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the new deal or no deal.
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Why would the EU make life easy for Boris? Why would they let him off the hook? Since the day he got in he has done nothing but lie, backpedal, insult, threaten. He has no power to do anything. He has no ability to keep any promise he makes, even if he wanted to (which on past performance is unlikely, the man is incapable of telling the truth).
The EU know he has no power. They know that all they have to do is wait two days and Boris is dead in a ditch - unfortunately only metaphorically.
Two days. Then we are either extending and getting another referendum or election or both. Or we are going out with all treaties torn up, losing every bargaining chip we have, and in the long term begging to be allowed to trade under far worst terms.
It's a win/win for the EU. And we did it all to ourselves. |
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Why would the EU make life easy for Boris? Why would they let him off the hook? Since the day he got in he has done nothing but lie, backpedal, insult, threaten. He has no power to do anything. He has no ability to keep any promise he makes, even if he wanted to (which on past performance is unlikely, the man is incapable of telling the truth).
The EU know he has no power. They know that all they have to do is wait two days and Boris is dead in a ditch - unfortunately only metaphorically.
Two days. Then we are either extending and getting another referendum or election or both. Or we are going out with all treaties torn up, losing every bargaining chip we have, and in the long term begging to be allowed to trade under far worst terms.
It's a win/win for the EU. And we did it all to ourselves."
Because the eu is sick of brexit too they are obviously happy with the deal they have made with him so why wouldn't they.They cannot keep extending indefinitely as they have their next 7 years financial plans coming up soon and need clarity on what is happening. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
How the EU functions is through formal relations with the democratic governments of member states.
It does not concern itself with the domestic legislature of any member state, nor does it deal directly with any domestic legislature, only the democratic governments.
I suspect the EU will see this for what it is - domestic politics between legislature and executive - which is outwith the remit of the EU.
And they will want to avoid the trap of being blamed for forcing a No Deal exit.
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"How can the EU refuse something they have not received - a request to extend to Article 50?
"
That is not what i said.He may ask the eu at the summit to say this is it no more extensions which they are in their right to do. |
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"It seems the uk are asking the eu to put out a statement that they will not have an extension.Its this deal or no deal if they do that the surrender bill is dead.
Which is illegal.
-Mat"
Well the mp,s discussing it on the tv right now dont seem to think so but im sure you know best. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"How can the EU refuse something they have not received - a request to extend to Article 50?
That is not what i said.He may ask the eu at the summit to say this is it no more extensions which they are in their right to do. "
Then I suggest you pay more attention to what every EU leader has been saying in public and private - none want the blame for the UK crashing out without an agreement.
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"How can the EU refuse something they have not received - a request to extend to Article 50?
That is not what i said.He may ask the eu at the summit to say this is it no more extensions which they are in their right to do.
Then I suggest you pay more attention to what every EU leader has been saying in public and private - none want the blame for the UK crashing out without an agreement.
"
exactly they have an agreement . |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"How the EU functions is through formal relations with the democratic governments of member states.
It does not concern itself with the domestic legislature of any member state, nor does it deal directly with any domestic legislature, only the democratic governments.
I suspect the EU will see this for what it is - domestic politics between legislature and executive - which is outwith the remit of the EU.
And they will want to avoid the trap of being blamed for forcing a No Deal exit.
"
Strange then how they have been having meetings not only with current MPs but also ex MPs and PMs.
Plenty of twists and turns to come yet |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The EU team will meet anyone.
Plenty of talks with Mrs Sturgeon, for example.
But when it comes to formalities, agreements can only be made with the democratic governments of member states, not any constituent part of it.
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"How can the EU refuse something they have not received - a request to extend to Article 50?
That is not what i said.He may ask the eu at the summit to say this is it no more extensions which they are in their right to do.
Then I suggest you pay more attention to what every EU leader has been saying in public and private - none want the blame for the UK crashing out without an agreement.
exactly they have an agreement ."
They had an agreement in November 2018, too.
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
They didn't say then "You must accept this agreement by March 31, 2019 or leave without one" and I doubt if they will say now "You must accept this agreement by October 31 or leave without one".
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"They didn't say then "You must accept this agreement by March 31, 2019 or leave without one" and I doubt if they will say now "You must accept this agreement by October 31 or leave without one".
"
no they didnt but must have now seen that keep extending does not change a thing and in fact makes things worse. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
no they didnt but must have now seen that keep extending does not change a thing and in fact makes things worse."
For whom?
People often make the mistake of thinking the EU will act in the interests of the departing member.
Why should it?
Their objective is to avoid the blame should the UK crash out.
If the UK crashes out, that must be down to a positive decision by the UK to do so.
And Parliament has already ruled that out.
No, ratification by Parliament of an international treaty between the government of the UK and the EU is an internal matter for the sovereign state to determine.
The EU won't interfere in that, which is what Johnson is asking it to do.
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The EU will become financially unstable if they lose the substantial revenue that the UK provides. It is not in their interest for the UK to leave so they are very happy to allow extension after extension. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"The EU will become financially unstable if they lose the substantial revenue that the UK provides. It is not in their interest for the UK to leave so they are very happy to allow extension after extension. "
The EU won't become "financially unstable". But we will all be poorer in one way or another. It's not a zero-sum game.
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"They didn't say then "You must accept this agreement by March 31, 2019 or leave without one" and I doubt if they will say now "You must accept this agreement by October 31 or leave without one".
no they didnt but must have now seen that keep extending does not change a thing and in fact makes things worse."
You're living in the BREXIT world of hope over reality. The EU is not going to slam the door either now or at anytime in the future. The choice before Parliament will be May's original deal of 2017 or extend.
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"The EU will become financially unstable if they lose the substantial revenue that the UK provides. It is not in their interest for the UK to leave so they are very happy to allow extension after extension.
The EU won't become "financially unstable". But we will all be poorer in one way or another. It's not a zero-sum game.
"
They will actually - will make a big dent in their budget and effect current commitments. I don't support us leaving the EU, by the way, it's a terrible decision for the UK for many reasons too lengthy to go into here. |
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"They didn't say then "You must accept this agreement by March 31, 2019 or leave without one" and I doubt if they will say now "You must accept this agreement by October 31 or leave without one".
no they didnt but must have now seen that keep extending does not change a thing and in fact makes things worse.
You're living in the BREXIT world of hope over reality. The EU is not going to slam the door either now or at anytime in the future. The choice before Parliament will be May's original deal of 2017 or extend.
"
Who is going to bring mays original deal back?  you're still living in the remain land of fantasy |
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"They didn't say then "You must accept this agreement by March 31, 2019 or leave without one" and I doubt if they will say now "You must accept this agreement by October 31 or leave without one".
no they didnt but must have now seen that keep extending does not change a thing and in fact makes things worse.
You're living in the BREXIT world of hope over reality. The EU is not going to slam the door either now or at anytime in the future. The choice before Parliament will be May's original deal of 2017 or extend.
Who is going to bring mays original deal back? you're still living in the remain land of fantasy "
This is deal is may's original deal.  |
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"They didn't say then "You must accept this agreement by March 31, 2019 or leave without one" and I doubt if they will say now "You must accept this agreement by October 31 or leave without one".
no they didnt but must have now seen that keep extending does not change a thing and in fact makes things worse.
You're living in the BREXIT world of hope over reality. The EU is not going to slam the door either now or at anytime in the future. The choice before Parliament will be May's original deal of 2017 or extend.
Who is going to bring mays original deal back? you're still living in the remain land of fantasy
This is deal is may's original deal. "
Minus the backstop and compulsory alignment 90% yes but not the same. |
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I dont think it is up to the EU if the uk will ask for an extension or not is up to them, they can not start an exit relationship by hitting parliament, or the prime minister with a stick.
However appetite for an extension is low, and appetite for any more concessions is zero. So if the EU will grant an extension if asked for one or not is uncertain.
I would think any extension would be to allow Ireland and France get the ports/borders ready and then refuse all UK negotiations, as thats about where the EU is now. |
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"They didn't say then "You must accept this agreement by March 31, 2019 or leave without one" and I doubt if they will say now "You must accept this agreement by October 31 or leave without one".
no they didnt but must have now seen that keep extending does not change a thing and in fact makes things worse.
You're living in the BREXIT world of hope over reality. The EU is not going to slam the door either now or at anytime in the future. The choice before Parliament will be May's original deal of 2017 or extend.
Who is going to bring mays original deal back? you're still living in the remain land of fantasy
This is deal is may's original deal. Minus the backstop and compulsory alignment 90% yes but not the same."
Teresa May's original deal had a whole of ireland backstop which is what this deal. The DUP didn't like this so the backstop was changed to the whole of the uk this 2nd version was put to parliament which was voted down. |
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I dont think it is up to the EU if the uk will ask for an extension or not is up to them, they can not start an exit relationship by hitting parliament, or the prime minister with a stick.
However appetite for an extension is low, and appetite for any more concessions is zero. So if the EU will grant an extension if asked for one or not is uncertain.
I would think any extension would be to allow Ireland and France get the ports/borders ready and then refuse all UK negotiations, as thats about where the EU is now."
The eu would be quite in its right to say no extension unless for a second referendum or election. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
They will actually - will make a big dent in their budget and effect current commitments. I don't support us leaving the EU, by the way, it's a terrible decision for the UK for many reasons too lengthy to go into here. "
Only if the UK leaves without settling its debts towards long-term programme commitments.
Whatever, the EU will do what any club does when revenue drops. Find a new source of revenue or reduce its expenditure.
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They will actually - will make a big dent in their budget and effect current commitments. I don't support us leaving the EU, by the way, it's a terrible decision for the UK for many reasons too lengthy to go into here.
Only if the UK leaves without settling its debts towards long-term programme commitments.
Whatever, the EU will do what any club does when revenue drops. Find a new source of revenue or reduce its expenditure.
"
Yes exactly this. My response around the revenue issue was in relation to the OPs wishful thinking that somehow the EU would provide an opportunity for the UK government to somehow provide a solution to override the Benn Act. It's simply not going to happen as you realise to. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
It's moving very fast now.
Juncker has now ruled out any further extension.
Oliver Letwin has just had a motion passed that will allow amendments to be submitted, debated and voted on in Saturdays session.
John Bercow is going to be very busy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I dont think it is up to the EU if the uk will ask for an extension or not is up to them, they can not start an exit relationship by hitting parliament, or the prime minister with a stick.
However appetite for an extension is low, and appetite for any more concessions is zero. So if the EU will grant an extension if asked for one or not is uncertain.
I would think any extension would be to allow Ireland and France get the ports/borders ready and then refuse all UK negotiations, as thats about where the EU is now.The eu would be quite in its right to say no extension unless for a second referendum or election. "
They have ruled out an extension. This is the deal , are you leavers happy with it?? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It seems the uk are asking the eu to put out a statement that they will not have an extension.Its this deal or no deal if they do that the surrender bill is dead."
I bloody hope so |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"I dont think it is up to the EU if the uk will ask for an extension or not is up to them, they can not start an exit relationship by hitting parliament, or the prime minister with a stick.
However appetite for an extension is low, and appetite for any more concessions is zero. So if the EU will grant an extension if asked for one or not is uncertain.
I would think any extension would be to allow Ireland and France get the ports/borders ready and then refuse all UK negotiations, as thats about where the EU is now.The eu would be quite in its right to say no extension unless for a second referendum or election.
They have ruled out an extension. This is the deal , are you leavers happy with it?? "
Basically yes time to leave,I just hope enough Labour MP's will come on board to get it through |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"I dont think it is up to the EU if the uk will ask for an extension or not is up to them, they can not start an exit relationship by hitting parliament, or the prime minister with a stick.
However appetite for an extension is low, and appetite for any more concessions is zero. So if the EU will grant an extension if asked for one or not is uncertain.
I would think any extension would be to allow Ireland and France get the ports/borders ready and then refuse all UK negotiations, as thats about where the EU is now.The eu would be quite in its right to say no extension unless for a second referendum or election.
They have ruled out an extension. This is the deal , are you leavers happy with it?? Basically yes time to leave,I just hope enough Labour MP's will come on board to get it through"
You are happy with it? So after all this time and everything you were promised. You are willing to just chuck it all in and accept the complete opposite to what you voted for instead? Strange.
-Matt |
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I dont think it is up to the EU if the uk will ask for an extension or not is up to them, they can not start an exit relationship by hitting parliament, or the prime minister with a stick.
However appetite for an extension is low, and appetite for any more concessions is zero. So if the EU will grant an extension if asked for one or not is uncertain.
I would think any extension would be to allow Ireland and France get the ports/borders ready and then refuse all UK negotiations, as thats about where the EU is now.The eu would be quite in its right to say no extension unless for a second referendum or election.
They have ruled out an extension. This is the deal , are you leavers happy with it?? Basically yes time to leave,I just hope enough Labour MP's will come on board to get it through
You are happy with it? So after all this time and everything you were promised. You are willing to just chuck it all in and accept the complete opposite to what you voted for instead? Strange.
-Matt"
we are leaving at last whats not to like? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I dont think it is up to the EU if the uk will ask for an extension or not is up to them, they can not start an exit relationship by hitting parliament, or the prime minister with a stick.
However appetite for an extension is low, and appetite for any more concessions is zero. So if the EU will grant an extension if asked for one or not is uncertain.
I would think any extension would be to allow Ireland and France get the ports/borders ready and then refuse all UK negotiations, as thats about where the EU is now.The eu would be quite in its right to say no extension unless for a second referendum or election.
They have ruled out an extension. This is the deal , are you leavers happy with it?? Basically yes time to leave,I just hope enough Labour MP's will come on board to get it through
You are happy with it? So after all this time and everything you were promised. You are willing to just chuck it all in and accept the complete opposite to what you voted for instead? Strange.
-Matt"
I have feeling they’ll go for the deal with an amendment to put it to the people in a second referendum.. |
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"So if the EU will grant an extension if asked for one or not is uncertain.
"
They absolutely would grant one.
Juncker is trying to help sell the deal, but if it gets rejected the EU still don't want No Deal. |
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I dont think it is up to the EU if the uk will ask for an extension or not is up to them, they can not start an exit relationship by hitting parliament, or the prime minister with a stick.
However appetite for an extension is low, and appetite for any more concessions is zero. So if the EU will grant an extension if asked for one or not is uncertain.
I would think any extension would be to allow Ireland and France get the ports/borders ready and then refuse all UK negotiations, as thats about where the EU is now.The eu would be quite in its right to say no extension unless for a second referendum or election.
They have ruled out an extension. This is the deal , are you leavers happy with it?? Basically yes time to leave,I just hope enough Labour MP's will come on board to get it through
You are happy with it? So after all this time and everything you were promised. You are willing to just chuck it all in and accept the complete opposite to what you voted for instead? Strange.
-Matt
I have feeling they’ll go for the deal with an amendment to put it to the people in a second referendum.. "
Think you may be right there bob the remain mp,s will try to stop it again without a doubt and im sure bercow will help them. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"I dont think it is up to the EU if the uk will ask for an extension or not is up to them, they can not start an exit relationship by hitting parliament, or the prime minister with a stick.
However appetite for an extension is low, and appetite for any more concessions is zero. So if the EU will grant an extension if asked for one or not is uncertain.
I would think any extension would be to allow Ireland and France get the ports/borders ready and then refuse all UK negotiations, as thats about where the EU is now.The eu would be quite in its right to say no extension unless for a second referendum or election.
They have ruled out an extension. This is the deal , are you leavers happy with it?? Basically yes time to leave,I just hope enough Labour MP's will come on board to get it through
You are happy with it? So after all this time and everything you were promised. You are willing to just chuck it all in and accept the complete opposite to what you voted for instead? Strange.
-Matt
I have feeling they’ll go for the deal with an amendment to put it to the people in a second referendum.. "
That'll be the crucial amendment. It'll give Labour time to consolidate a position and to try and make headway in the polls.
The danger now for the Conservatives is now from the right and the Brexit Party. Its not the Brexit that Farage wants and he'll now be mobilising. |
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"Deal or no deal - this is the choice
MPs will be offered this Single motion on Saturday
Mp's voted against no deal. There is a Benn Act. "
Not withstanding any amendments, the single motion is vote for this new deal or no deal - this will be compliant with the Surrender Act, as by voting against the deal MPs would have given consent to leaving on the 31st without a deal.
The surrender act becomes redundant
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Deal or no deal - this is the choice
MPs will be offered this Single motion on Saturday
Mp's voted against no deal. There is a Benn Act.
Not withstanding any amendments, the single motion is vote for this new deal or no deal - this will be compliant with the Surrender Act, as by voting against the deal MPs would have given consent to leaving on the 31st without a deal.
The surrender act becomes redundant
"
I'm not so sure now. If the HoC goes that way on Saturday, then I'm sure that the EU will allow it, rather than the No Deal option.
Juncker's comments apparently do not reflect official EU policy, but more of a desire to get this sorted in his Presidency. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I dont think it is up to the EU if the uk will ask for an extension or not is up to them, they can not start an exit relationship by hitting parliament, or the prime minister with a stick.
However appetite for an extension is low, and appetite for any more concessions is zero. So if the EU will grant an extension if asked for one or not is uncertain.
I would think any extension would be to allow Ireland and France get the ports/borders ready and then refuse all UK negotiations, as thats about where the EU is now.The eu would be quite in its right to say no extension unless for a second referendum or election.
They have ruled out an extension. This is the deal , are you leavers happy with it?? Basically yes time to leave,I just hope enough Labour MP's will come on board to get it through
You are happy with it? So after all this time and everything you were promised. You are willing to just chuck it all in and accept the complete opposite to what you voted for instead? Strange.
-Matt
I have feeling they’ll go for the deal with an amendment to put it to the people in a second referendum..
That'll be the crucial amendment. It'll give Labour time to consolidate a position and to try and make headway in the polls.
The danger now for the Conservatives is now from the right and the Brexit Party. Its not the Brexit that Farage wants and he'll now be mobilising. "
It’s inevitable that’ll they will tag on an amendment for a referendum to remain or choose the Boris deal.
Nigel will be looking for conservative scalps at the next GE as well as labour scalps...
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"I dont think it is up to the EU if the uk will ask for an extension or not is up to them, they can not start an exit relationship by hitting parliament, or the prime minister with a stick.
However appetite for an extension is low, and appetite for any more concessions is zero. So if the EU will grant an extension if asked for one or not is uncertain.
I would think any extension would be to allow Ireland and France get the ports/borders ready and then refuse all UK negotiations, as thats about where the EU is now.The eu would be quite in its right to say no extension unless for a second referendum or election.
They have ruled out an extension. This is the deal , are you leavers happy with it?? Basically yes time to leave,I just hope enough Labour MP's will come on board to get it through
You are happy with it? So after all this time and everything you were promised. You are willing to just chuck it all in and accept the complete opposite to what you voted for instead? Strange.
-Matt
I have feeling they’ll go for the deal with an amendment to put it to the people in a second referendum..
That'll be the crucial amendment. It'll give Labour time to consolidate a position and to try and make headway in the polls.
The danger now for the Conservatives is now from the right and the Brexit Party. Its not the Brexit that Farage wants and he'll now be mobilising.
It’s inevitable that’ll they will tag on an amendment for a referendum to remain or choose the Boris deal.
Nigel will be looking for conservative scalps at the next GE as well as labour scalps...
"
Agreed. Doesn't bode well, as the next GE could well be fought on a "Remain" or Leave" single issue.
The Brexit party and the Lib-Dems are ready to pull the two major parties apart here.
A hung parliament is the last thing we need right now. |
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"Deal or no deal - this is the choice
MPs will be offered this Single motion on Saturday
Mp's voted against no deal. There is a Benn Act.
Not withstanding any amendments, the single motion is vote for this new deal or no deal - this will be compliant with the Surrender Act, as by voting against the deal MPs would have given consent to leaving on the 31st without a deal.
The surrender act becomes redundant
I'm not so sure now. If the HoC goes that way on Saturday, then I'm sure that the EU will allow it, rather than the No Deal option.
Juncker's comments apparently do not reflect official EU policy, but more of a desire to get this sorted in his Presidency. "
Juncker doesn’t decide on the extension, however listen out for any of the heads of state in the next 24-48 hours indicating a similar “there is a deal, an extension is not needed” type message.
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I dont think it is up to the EU if the uk will ask for an extension or not is up to them, they can not start an exit relationship by hitting parliament, or the prime minister with a stick.
However appetite for an extension is low, and appetite for any more concessions is zero. So if the EU will grant an extension if asked for one or not is uncertain.
I would think any extension would be to allow Ireland and France get the ports/borders ready and then refuse all UK negotiations, as thats about where the EU is now.The eu would be quite in its right to say no extension unless for a second referendum or election.
They have ruled out an extension. This is the deal , are you leavers happy with it?? Basically yes time to leave,I just hope enough Labour MP's will come on board to get it through
You are happy with it? So after all this time and everything you were promised. You are willing to just chuck it all in and accept the complete opposite to what you voted for instead? Strange.
-Matt
I have feeling they’ll go for the deal with an amendment to put it to the people in a second referendum..
That'll be the crucial amendment. It'll give Labour time to consolidate a position and to try and make headway in the polls.
The danger now for the Conservatives is now from the right and the Brexit Party. Its not the Brexit that Farage wants and he'll now be mobilising.
It’s inevitable that’ll they will tag on an amendment for a referendum to remain or choose the Boris deal.
Nigel will be looking for conservative scalps at the next GE as well as labour scalps...
Agreed. Doesn't bode well, as the next GE could well be fought on a "Remain" or Leave" single issue.
The Brexit party and the Lib-Dems are ready to pull the two major parties apart here.
A hung parliament is the last thing we need right now. "
we could be out before another GE depends on labour mp,s in leave constituencies i think. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Nigel Farage isn’t happy he is deeply opposed to this deal .He wants an extension.
Is this deal worse than mays deal for Brexiteers.,,I think it is ..
 "
Fuck him and fuck his lies  |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
Not withstanding any amendments, the single motion is vote for this new deal or no deal - this will be compliant with the Surrender Act, as by voting against the deal MPs would have given consent to leaving on the 31st without a deal.
The surrender act becomes redundant
"
I believe you're right.
I looked up the Commons library briefing paper for the Lords stage:
"Clause 1 would provide that the Prime Minister must ask the European Council for an extension to article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union unless one of two conditions is met. These conditions are that the House of Commons has approved, and the House of Lords has had the opportunity to debate, either 1) a withdrawal agreement with the EU or 2) a statement that the UK is to leave the EU without an agreement."
On that basis, if the motion for the agreement is voted down, and that motion explicitly states the alternative, then yes it would appear the UK heads to the exit without any agreement.
Now, which party opposing the withdrawal agreement will want the blame for delivering a no deal exit?
None
The 2nd referendum amendment may gain some unexpected momentum.
|
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"
On that basis, if the motion for the agreement is voted down, and that motion explicitly states the alternative, then yes it would appear the UK heads to the exit without any agreement.
"
It would be very unusual if the motion expressly said that failing to vote for the deal would be an official vote for No Deal. That's not how HoC voting works. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
On that basis, if the motion for the agreement is voted down, and that motion explicitly states the alternative, then yes it would appear the UK heads to the exit without any agreement.
It would be very unusual if the motion expressly said that failing to vote for the deal would be an official vote for No Deal. That's not how HoC voting works. "
Well if knowing an extension isn't available and Parliament votes the deal down then Parliament knows full well by doing so will bring about a no deal Brexit |
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"
Not withstanding any amendments, the single motion is vote for this new deal or no deal - this will be compliant with the Surrender Act, as by voting against the deal MPs would have given consent to leaving on the 31st without a deal.
The surrender act becomes redundant
I believe you're right.
I looked up the Commons library briefing paper for the Lords stage:
"Clause 1 would provide that the Prime Minister must ask the European Council for an extension to article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union unless one of two conditions is met. These conditions are that the House of Commons has approved, and the House of Lords has had the opportunity to debate, either 1) a withdrawal agreement with the EU or 2) a statement that the UK is to leave the EU without an agreement."
On that basis, if the motion for the agreement is voted down, and that motion explicitly states the alternative, then yes it would appear the UK heads to the exit without any agreement.
Now, which party opposing the withdrawal agreement will want the blame for delivering a no deal exit?
None
The 2nd referendum amendment may gain some unexpected momentum.
"
The majority of the labour party might like that but i cant see corbyn wanting a referendum attached as ive said all along he wants to leave has always been anti eu but cant come out and say it as its not what his party want. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
This is the summary of the Bill issued by the Library of the House of Commons:
"On 4 September 2019, Hilary Benn (Labour MP for Leeds Central) introduced the European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 6) Bill in the House of Commons. The bill is a private member’s bill, formally supported by several independent MPs as well as MPs from all opposition parties. The purpose of the bill is to ensure that the UK does not leave the EU on the 31 October 2019 without a withdrawal agreement, unless Parliament approves such a course of action. The bill provides that if that the House of Commons has not approved (and the House of Lords has not had the opportunity to debate) either a withdrawal agreement with the EU or a statement that the UK is to leave the EU without an agreement, the Prime Minister is obliged to ask the European Council for an extension to Article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union. The bill also requires the Prime Minister to accept such an extension if it is offered."
I take your point about how voting in the House of Commons works.
I imagine the Government business people will be framing the business on Saturday in a way that meets the above, and allows the UK to exit on Oct 31 if Parliament turns down the offer of an agreement.
|
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"
On that basis, if the motion for the agreement is voted down, and that motion explicitly states the alternative, then yes it would appear the UK heads to the exit without any agreement.
It would be very unusual if the motion expressly said that failing to vote for the deal would be an official vote for No Deal. That's not how HoC voting works.
Well if knowing an extension isn't available and Parliament votes the deal down then Parliament knows full well by doing so will bring about a no deal Brexit "
No, because an extension isn't and won't be off the table. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
The majority of the labour party might like that but i cant see corbyn wanting a referendum attached as ive said all along he wants to leave has always been anti eu but cant come out and say it as its not what his party want. "
A referendum on the terms of exit negotiated by a Labour Government is the policy of the Labour Party.
It's not a great leap to support a referendum on the terms of exit negotiated by a Conservative Government.
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"It does not matter what deal Boris or anyone brings back the JC will find a way of opposing it x"
Yes so will the SNP, the DUP, some tories, the ex tories that Boris spitefully removed the whip from. This isn't all about labour v tory. |
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
The trade deal is still to be negotiated so the easiest way for labour or the tories to get the "leave" that they want is to agree the withdrawal agreement have a GE and the winner will get to negotiate it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It does not matter what deal Boris or anyone brings back the JC will find a way of opposing it x"
Indeed
The deal could give every man woman and child a million quid & cure cancer and Labour would still be instructed to oppose it  |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"It seems the uk are asking the eu to put out a statement that they will not have an extension.Its this deal or no deal if they do that the surrender bill is dead."
I’m sorry... which is the surrender bill? This deal leaves people worse off than the may deal!
But hey... why just cut off an arm when you can negotiate cutting of an arm and a leg! |
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"It does not matter what deal Boris or anyone brings back the JC will find a way of opposing it x
Indeed
The deal could give every man woman and child a million quid & cure cancer and Labour would still be instructed to oppose it "
Not true at all. If the Tories had negotiated a soft Brexit, it would have passed a long time ago - or at least it would have if they had their own party in line. |
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"Deal or no deal - this is the choice
MPs will be offered this Single motion on Saturday
Mp's voted against no deal. There is a Benn Act. "
They also voted for no deal in 2018 and the Benn Act does not overrule the EU Withdrawal Bill 2018.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It does not matter what deal Boris or anyone brings back the JC will find a way of opposing it x
Indeed
The deal could give every man woman and child a million quid & cure cancer and Labour would still be instructed to oppose it
Not true at all. If the Tories had negotiated a soft Brexit, it would have passed a long time ago - or at least it would have if they had their own party in line. "
Well Corbyn said the other day that he will be instructing his MP's to vote against any deal Boris comes back with.
|
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"It does not matter what deal Boris or anyone brings back the JC will find a way of opposing it x
Indeed
The deal could give every man woman and child a million quid & cure cancer and Labour would still be instructed to oppose it
Not true at all. If the Tories had negotiated a soft Brexit, it would have passed a long time ago - or at least it would have if they had their own party in line.
Well Corbyn said the other day that he will be instructing his MP's to vote against any deal Boris comes back with.
"
Because he knew there was 0% chance Johnson was going to bring back a deal which protects the economy, jobs, the environment etc which are Labour's priorities in any Brexit deal. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It does not matter what deal Boris or anyone brings back the JC will find a way of opposing it x
Indeed
The deal could give every man woman and child a million quid & cure cancer and Labour would still be instructed to oppose it
Not true at all. If the Tories had negotiated a soft Brexit, it would have passed a long time ago - or at least it would have if they had their own party in line.
Well Corbyn said the other day that he will be instructing his MP's to vote against any deal Boris comes back with.
Because he knew there was 0% chance Johnson was going to bring back a deal which protects the economy, jobs, the environment etc which are Labour's priorities in any Brexit deal. "
That's just wanting all the benefits of EU membership without being in the EU so a deal like that doesn't exist..... |
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"It does not matter what deal Boris or anyone brings back the JC will find a way of opposing it x
Indeed
The deal could give every man woman and child a million quid & cure cancer and Labour would still be instructed to oppose it
Not true at all. If the Tories had negotiated a soft Brexit, it would have passed a long time ago - or at least it would have if they had their own party in line.
Well Corbyn said the other day that he will be instructing his MP's to vote against any deal Boris comes back with.
Because he knew there was 0% chance Johnson was going to bring back a deal which protects the economy, jobs, the environment etc which are Labour's priorities in any Brexit deal.
That's just wanting all the benefits of EU membership without being in the EU so a deal like that doesn't exist..... "
No it isn't. A soft Brexit with a customs union and single market membership would have been acceptable to Labour, and a lot of Remain voters like myself. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It does not matter what deal Boris or anyone brings back the JC will find a way of opposing it x
Indeed
The deal could give every man woman and child a million quid & cure cancer and Labour would still be instructed to oppose it
Not true at all. If the Tories had negotiated a soft Brexit, it would have passed a long time ago - or at least it would have if they had their own party in line.
Well Corbyn said the other day that he will be instructing his MP's to vote against any deal Boris comes back with.
Because he knew there was 0% chance Johnson was going to bring back a deal which protects the economy, jobs, the environment etc which are Labour's priorities in any Brexit deal.
That's just wanting all the benefits of EU membership without being in the EU so a deal like that doesn't exist.....
No it isn't. A soft Brexit with a customs union and single market membership would have been acceptable to Labour, and a lot of Remain voters like myself. "
Leavers were told a vote to leave was to leave the Single Market though |
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"
Leavers were told a vote to leave was to leave the Single Market though "
That's highly debatable, but also besides the point. It wouldn't have had to be a formal single market membership, in fact what got most Labour votes during the indicative vote was customs union + close alignment to the single market.
The point is, there are deals the Tories could have done to gain Labour support. I understand (without sympathy, but I understand) why the Tories didn't, but this isn't a stick to hit Labour with.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Leavers were told a vote to leave was to leave the Single Market though
That's highly debatable, but also besides the point. It wouldn't have had to be a formal single market membership, in fact what got most Labour votes during the indicative vote was customs union + close alignment to the single market.
The point is, there are deals the Tories could have done to gain Labour support. I understand (without sympathy, but I understand) why the Tories didn't, but this isn't a stick to hit Labour with. Staying in the single market an customs union is not brexit though it still leaves us shackled to the EU with no chance of striking our own deals.
"
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" Staying in the single market an customs union is not brexit though it still leaves us shackled to the EU with no chance of striking our own deals.
"
It fulfills the outcome of the referendum. We would have left the EU.
There were also plenty of Leave campaigners saying we would retain benefits of the single market. |
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"
Not withstanding any amendments, the single motion is vote for this new deal or no deal - this will be compliant with the Surrender Act, as by voting against the deal MPs would have given consent to leaving on the 31st without a deal.
The surrender act becomes redundant
I believe you're right.
I looked up the Commons library briefing paper for the Lords stage:
"Clause 1 would provide that the Prime Minister must ask the European Council for an extension to article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union unless one of two conditions is met. These conditions are that the House of Commons has approved, and the House of Lords has had the opportunity to debate, either 1) a withdrawal agreement with the EU or 2) a statement that the UK is to leave the EU without an agreement."
On that basis, if the motion for the agreement is voted down, and that motion explicitly states the alternative, then yes it would appear the UK heads to the exit without any agreement.
Now, which party opposing the withdrawal agreement will want the blame for delivering a no deal exit?
None
The 2nd referendum amendment may gain some unexpected momentum.
"
I believe this is where Mr Bercow steps up and selects “appropriate” amendments ? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"It seems the uk are asking the eu to put out a statement that they will not have an extension.Its this deal or no deal if they do that the surrender bill is dead."
Taking back control by hoping that the EU help us out?
|
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"It seems the uk are asking the eu to put out a statement that they will not have an extension.Its this deal or no deal if they do that the surrender bill is dead.
Taking back control by hoping that the EU help us out?
"
Nothing wrong with asking for help mate, dont see how that is relevant with the uk being in control of its destiny in the future but i suppose you must have got some pleasure out of posting it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I dont think it is up to the EU if the uk will ask for an extension or not is up to them, they can not start an exit relationship by hitting parliament, or the prime minister with a stick.
However appetite for an extension is low, and appetite for any more concessions is zero. So if the EU will grant an extension if asked for one or not is uncertain.
I would think any extension would be to allow Ireland and France get the ports/borders ready and then refuse all UK negotiations, as thats about where the EU is now.The eu would be quite in its right to say no extension unless for a second referendum or election.
They have ruled out an extension. This is the deal , are you leavers happy with it?? Basically yes time to leave,I just hope enough Labour MP's will come on board to get it through"
They won’t, and neither will the DUP |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"It seems the uk are asking the eu to put out a statement that they will not have an extension.Its this deal or no deal if they do that the surrender bill is dead.
Taking back control by hoping that the EU help us out?
Nothing wrong with asking for help mate, dont see how that is relevant with the uk being in control of its destiny in the future but i suppose you must have got some pleasure out of posting it. "
If you don't see the irony of a Brexit based on not wanting to be beholden to the EU and then asking them to go against the wishes of our Parliament to push through a transition "deal" that gives away economic control of part of the UK then you really have found am ability to mentally flip-flop which is spectacular  |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
" Staying in the single market an customs union is not brexit though it still leaves us shackled to the EU with no chance of striking our own deals.
It fulfills the outcome of the referendum. We would have left the EU.
There were also plenty of Leave campaigners saying we would retain benefits of the single market. "
Norway voted narrowly against joining the EU.
The compromise was to join the single market.
Neither side got exactly what it wanted, but each got enough out of it to make it a satisfactory outcome. |
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"It seems the uk are asking the eu to put out a statement that they will not have an extension.Its this deal or no deal if they do that the surrender bill is dead.
Taking back control by hoping that the EU help us out?
Nothing wrong with asking for help mate, dont see how that is relevant with the uk being in control of its destiny in the future but i suppose you must have got some pleasure out of posting it.
If you don't see the irony of a Brexit based on not wanting to be beholden to the EU and then asking them to go against the wishes of our Parliament to push through a transition "deal" that gives away economic control of part of the UK then you really have found am ability to mentally flip-flop which is spectacular "
As i said nothing wrong in asking them while we are still in could totally agree with your point if we were out but we are not. |
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"They didn't say then "You must accept this agreement by March 31, 2019 or leave without one" and I doubt if they will say now "You must accept this agreement by October 31 or leave without one".
no they didnt but must have now seen that keep extending does not change a thing and in fact makes things worse.
You're living in the BREXIT world of hope over reality. The EU is not going to slam the door either now or at anytime in the future. The choice before Parliament will be May's original deal of 2017 or extend.
Who is going to bring mays original deal back? you're still living in the remain land of fantasy "
Johnson's deal is May's original deal. Northern Ireland remains in effect in the EU's customs union with a border down the Irish Sea. So not only are we leaving the EU's single market and customs union we're also breaking up the UK's single market and customs union. Well done Boris - and he calls himself a one nation unionist - don't make me laugh. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"They didn't say then "You must accept this agreement by March 31, 2019 or leave without one" and I doubt if they will say now "You must accept this agreement by October 31 or leave without one".
no they didnt but must have now seen that keep extending does not change a thing and in fact makes things worse.
You're living in the BREXIT world of hope over reality. The EU is not going to slam the door either now or at anytime in the future. The choice before Parliament will be May's original deal of 2017 or extend.
Who is going to bring mays original deal back? you're still living in the remain land of fantasy
Johnson's deal is May's original deal. Northern Ireland remains in effect in the EU's customs union with a border down the Irish Sea. So not only are we leaving the EU's single market and customs union we're also breaking up the UK's single market and customs union. Well done Boris - and he calls himself a one nation unionist - don't make me laugh."
In fairness to Boris. He doesn't give two shits about keeping NI within the Union. It is irrelevant to his agenda.
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"They didn't say then "You must accept this agreement by March 31, 2019 or leave without one" and I doubt if they will say now "You must accept this agreement by October 31 or leave without one".
no they didnt but must have now seen that keep extending does not change a thing and in fact makes things worse.
You're living in the BREXIT world of hope over reality. The EU is not going to slam the door either now or at anytime in the future. The choice before Parliament will be May's original deal of 2017 or extend.
Who is going to bring mays original deal back? you're still living in the remain land of fantasy
Johnson's deal is May's original deal. Northern Ireland remains in effect in the EU's customs union with a border down the Irish Sea. So not only are we leaving the EU's single market and customs union we're also breaking up the UK's single market and customs union. Well done Boris - and he calls himself a one nation unionist - don't make me laugh.
In fairness to Boris. He doesn't give two shits about keeping NI within the Union. It is irrelevant to his agenda.
"
He told you that did he |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I think for him no matter what deal he brought to Parliament from Brussels. The EU will not agree on another agreement. Either parliament will accept it or reject it. Rather, there will be a second option. What's next? It seems to me that this is his plan but what plan we will find out on Saturday. |
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"They didn't say then "You must accept this agreement by March 31, 2019 or leave without one" and I doubt if they will say now "You must accept this agreement by October 31 or leave without one".
no they didnt but must have now seen that keep extending does not change a thing and in fact makes things worse.
You're living in the BREXIT world of hope over reality. The EU is not going to slam the door either now or at anytime in the future. The choice before Parliament will be May's original deal of 2017 or extend.
Who is going to bring mays original deal back? you're still living in the remain land of fantasy
Johnson's deal is May's original deal. Northern Ireland remains in effect in the EU's customs union with a border down the Irish Sea. So not only are we leaving the EU's single market and customs union we're also breaking up the UK's single market and customs union. Well done Boris - and he calls himself a one nation unionist - don't make me laugh.
In fairness to Boris. He doesn't give two shits about keeping NI within the Union. It is irrelevant to his agenda.
He told you that did he "
He literally said himself in July that making a deal like this would 'damage the fabric of the union'.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"They didn't say then "You must accept this agreement by March 31, 2019 or leave without one" and I doubt if they will say now "You must accept this agreement by October 31 or leave without one".
no they didnt but must have now seen that keep extending does not change a thing and in fact makes things worse.
You're living in the BREXIT world of hope over reality. The EU is not going to slam the door either now or at anytime in the future. The choice before Parliament will be May's original deal of 2017 or extend.
Who is going to bring mays original deal back? you're still living in the remain land of fantasy
Johnson's deal is May's original deal. Northern Ireland remains in effect in the EU's customs union with a border down the Irish Sea. So not only are we leaving the EU's single market and customs union we're also breaking up the UK's single market and customs union. Well done Boris - and he calls himself a one nation unionist - don't make me laugh.
In fairness to Boris. He doesn't give two shits about keeping NI within the Union. It is irrelevant to his agenda.
He told you that did he
He literally said himself in July that making a deal like this would 'damage the fabric of the union'.
"
Thank you. Yup. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
He told you that did he "
He told the DUP annual conference in 2018, referring to the first WA:
"We would be damaging the fabric of the Union with regulatory checks and even customs controls between Great Britain and Northern Ireland on top of those extra regulatory checks down the Irish Sea that are already envisaged in the withdrawal agreement. Now, I have to tell you that no British Conservative government could or should sign up to any such arrangement." |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Plenty of warnings in 2016 that Brexit would lead to the break-up of the United Kingdom.
People voted for it regardless.
So it should not come as any surprise the UK is beginning to disintegrate.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Leavers were told a vote to leave was to leave the Single Market though
That's highly debatable,
"
How is a Fact debatable, that's really really going on a journey to the funny farm |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Leavers were told a vote to leave was to leave the Single Market though
Leavers were told 101 things. Not least the idea of not being in the area covered by the EEA was "silly".
"
It was actually Cameron that said it, many many times. |
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"
Leavers were told a vote to leave was to leave the Single Market though
That's highly debatable,
How is a Fact debatable, that's really really going on a journey to the funny farm "
It wasn't on the referendum, was it?
I notice you snip out the rest of my post saying that that isn't relevant to the point being discussed  Gotta love when people can't back up their argument and try and move to a new one. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Remember all member states of the EU have to also sign off on this deal. Just needs one of them who is pissed off with Bo Jo to say no and the deal is scuppered. Which European leader would have the balls? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Well done Boris....Will shut the gobby remoaners up once and for all ....kick on and let's get back to real issues"
£ 33billion being paid .
I thought brexit meant leave & no deals , this is remain light but with no jobs |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Aw Is that how the eu work one of them gets pissed of woth another leader so fucks it all up ffs"
Maggie did and Bo Jo is at it so wouldn't blame one of the other leaders saying fuck you guys am not signing off on this |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Well done Boris....Will shut the gobby remoaners up once and for all ....kick on and let's get back to real issues"
Well done Boris.... .
Deal, no deal, deal, no deal leave mean leave. Bollocks. You still can't decide what you want. Typical for brexiters. Just like your hero. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Well done Boris....Will shut the gobby remoaners up once and for all ....kick on and let's get back to real issues"
He hasn’t got a deal yet. Tbh though, if he does get Teresa Mays deal through parliament it is better than no deal |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
This is going to be a long winter now, but I’m sure once it’s back at parliament there will be further tweaks, to make it workable for all. Then we can all move on, finally.
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"They didn't say then "You must accept this agreement by March 31, 2019 or leave without one" and I doubt if they will say now "You must accept this agreement by October 31 or leave without one".
no they didnt but must have now seen that keep extending does not change a thing and in fact makes things worse."
Extension offers the opportunity to negotiate but they will always be limited by the quality of the UK PM that they have to deal with . It's not in the EUs or UKs best interests to have no deal, so it's reasonable to extend, as the costs of no deal amount to $billions - and full trade agreement negotiations will take many more years to come anyway.
They have been right to load responsibility upon Johnson, as he's obviously been wanting to push blame away from himself |
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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago
on the hill NordWest of |
"Remember all member states of the EU have to also sign off on this deal. Just needs one of them who is pissed off with Bo Jo to say no and the deal is scuppered. Which European leader would have the balls?"
De facto yes, but that won't happen. But remember it has to get approval by the uk parliament and that is unlikely to happen and with that back to square one. It's like an endless snake and ladder game nobody can win. |
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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago
on the hill NordWest of |
"Remember all member states of the EU have to also sign off on this deal. Just needs one of them who is pissed off with Bo Jo to say no and the deal is scuppered. Which European leader would have the balls?
De facto yes, but that won't happen. But remember it has to get approval by the uk parliament and that is unlikely to happen and with that back to square one. It's like an endless snake and ladder game nobody can win. "
Forgot to mention there has been and will be losers no matter what. It's a shit game. |
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If he loses the vote and has to extend he goes into the election blaming parliament for not letting it pass. He then campaigns as the party who got a deal and will take UK out. Biggest poll since referendum yesterday showed greater swing to leave at 54/46% than the 52/48%.
This suggests he wins with a majority of c.+30 seats he then legislates accordingly and re-opens EU deal with improve it or no Deal threat and we leave for certain. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Deal or no deal - this is the choice
MPs will be offered this Single motion on Saturday
Mp's voted against no deal. There is a Benn Act.
Not withstanding any amendments, the single motion is vote for this new deal or no deal - this will be compliant with the Surrender Act, as by voting against the deal MPs would have given consent to leaving on the 31st without a deal.
The surrender act becomes redundant
"
Exactly.
The surrender act only requires that the PM requests an extension if he has not secured a deal with the EU.
Now that he has, it falls on parliament to either vote for it or against it.
Jean Claude Junker has stated that, now a deal has been found, there is no need to prolong matters.
When asked to clarify if that meant no further extensions, he said 'yes'
Here's the question. If the purpose of requesting an extension is to secure a deal, now that we have one (regardless of how awful it is), why would the EU agree to a further extension? It would serve no purpose |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Where does johnson get the numbers from to get this treaty ratified?
I'd say it's a close call whether this will get through or the amendment requiring the agreement to be put to the people for endorsement.
That said, I think there is a case for a referendum - for the people of Northern Ireland only, to check they are happy to have one foot in the EU and one foot in the UK.
They are being removed from the EU, against their will, by voters in England, so their voices for once should be heard and acted upon on an issue that affects NI only.
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"Deal or no deal - this is the choice
MPs will be offered this Single motion on Saturday
Mp's voted against no deal. There is a Benn Act.
Not withstanding any amendments, the single motion is vote for this new deal or no deal - this will be compliant with the Surrender Act, as by voting against the deal MPs would have given consent to leaving on the 31st without a deal.
The surrender act becomes redundant
Exactly.
The surrender act only requires that the PM requests an extension if he has not secured a deal with the EU.
Now that he has, it falls on parliament to either vote for it or against it.
Jean Claude Junker has stated that, now a deal has been found, there is no need to prolong matters.
When asked to clarify if that meant no further extensions, he said 'yes'
Here's the question. If the purpose of requesting an extension is to secure a deal, now that we have one (regardless of how awful it is), why would the EU agree to a further extension? It would serve no purpose"
Juncker has been contradicted by donald tusk and others. At the moment the eu and uk have a deal no need to have an extension. If parliament votes the deal down then an extension will be asked for as per the benn act and the noises coming from the eu means it will be given. |
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Boris played his cards well. Closing a deal with the EU at terms which will not pass the commons , well he delivered a deal and doesn’t need to ask for extension and even if he does , the EU is worn out on the topic , so he may ask but in a manner safe enough to have the EU turn down the request , delivering him his desired NoDeal Brexit after all
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If he loses the vote and has to extend he goes into the election blaming parliament for not letting it pass. He then campaigns as the party who got a deal and will take UK out. Biggest poll since referendum yesterday showed greater swing to leave at 54/46% than the 52/48% "
Most poll show the opposite results. You chose the one that suits you |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If he loses the vote and has to extend he goes into the election blaming parliament for not letting it pass. He then campaigns as the party who got a deal and will take UK out. Biggest poll since referendum yesterday showed greater swing to leave at 54/46% than the 52/48%
Most poll show the opposite results. You chose the one that suits you "
The poll he’s referring to has been misinterpreted apparently .This polling came with "caveats" as it was a three-way poll, it was adding together different Brexit options.The polling actually found that Remain is the strongest option with 42% of support, with support for a deal at 30% and no-deal Brexit support at 20%.
Google is your friend and don’t believe the bullshit. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
Here's the question. If the purpose of requesting an extension is to secure a deal, now that we have one (regardless of how awful it is), why would the EU agree to a further extension? It would serve no purpose"
The objective of the EU is to secure an orderly exit for the UK, as per the legal requirements of Article 50.
It now has an agreement with the UK Government (for the second time) to do that.
So, from the EU side of things, it has complied with the requirements of Article 50.
In that sense, there is no need for an extension - hence the comments of Juncker.
That fact that the UK Government has lost all control domestically is beyond their remit.
The EU can do no more than reach an agreement with the government of the member state.
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"A new referendum could give Remain 40%, Boris Deal 30% and No Deal 30%.
In that scenario, who actually wins? "
Surely it would be a binary choice - Remain versus Leave with the Withdrawal Agreement?
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"A new referendum could give Remain 40%, Boris Deal 30% and No Deal 30%.
In that scenario, who actually wins?
Surely it would be a binary choice - Remain versus Leave with the Withdrawal Agreement?
"
There would be many arguments as to what's on any Referendum paper.
Do we have any confirmatory referendum before a GE?
It could all become very messy by tomorrow night. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Leavers were told a vote to leave was to leave the Single Market though
That's highly debatable,
How is a Fact debatable, that's really really going on a journey to the funny farm
It wasn't on the referendum, was it?
I notice you snip out the rest of my post saying that that isn't relevant to the point being discussed Gotta love when people can't back up their argument and try and move to a new one."
I snipped it out because it wasn't relevant to my point that's why.
I stated the FACT that Cameron said many times in the campaign that voting leave was to leave the Single Market in his campaign to remain and as he was the Prime Minister he had the authority to say so.
So to say it is highly debatable if people were told a vote to leave was to leave the Single Market is frankly wrong, silly, misinformed or just ignoring FACTS
I really don't know why this needed so much explanation. |
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"They didn't say then "You must accept this agreement by March 31, 2019 or leave without one" and I doubt if they will say now "You must accept this agreement by October 31 or leave without one".
no they didnt but must have now seen that keep extending does not change a thing and in fact makes things worse.
You're living in the BREXIT world of hope over reality. The EU is not going to slam the door either now or at anytime in the future. The choice before Parliament will be May's original deal of 2017 or extend.
Who is going to bring mays original deal back? you're still living in the remain land of fantasy
Johnson's deal is May's original deal. Northern Ireland remains in effect in the EU's customs union with a border down the Irish Sea. So not only are we leaving the EU's single market and customs union we're also breaking up the UK's single market and customs union. Well done Boris - and he calls himself a one nation unionist - don't make me laugh.
In fairness to Boris. He doesn't give two shits about keeping NI within the Union. It is irrelevant to his agenda.
He told you that did he "
Actions speak louder than words.
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
I stated the FACT that Cameron said many times in the campaign that voting leave was to leave the Single Market in his campaign to remain and as he was the Prime Minister he had the authority to say so.
"
You can tell how bankrupt the Leave campaign was when, three years later, the predictions of doom and gloom by their opponents become the justification for why people voted to Leave.
Orwellian.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
The poll he’s referring to has been misinterpreted apparently .This polling came with "caveats" as it was a three-way poll, it was adding together different Brexit options.The polling actually found that Remain is the strongest option with 42% of support, with support for a deal at 30% and no-deal Brexit support at 20%.
Google is your friend and don’t believe the bullshit. "
Them numbers show a majority for Leave though at 50% vs 42% to remain. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I stated the FACT that Cameron said many times in the campaign that voting leave was to leave the Single Market in his campaign to remain and as he was the Prime Minister he had the authority to say so.
You can tell how bankrupt the Leave campaign was when, three years later, the predictions of doom and gloom by their opponents become the justification for why people voted to Leave.
Orwellian.
"
I'm just staggered at the lack of abilities of some people on here to read clear and simple text and the inability to read up very simple highly reported facts that have happened |
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"
Leavers were told a vote to leave was to leave the Single Market though
That's highly debatable,
How is a Fact debatable, that's really really going on a journey to the funny farm
It wasn't on the referendum, was it?
I notice you snip out the rest of my post saying that that isn't relevant to the point being discussed Gotta love when people can't back up their argument and try and move to a new one.
I snipped it out because it wasn't relevant to my point that's why.
I stated the FACT that Cameron said many times in the campaign that voting leave was to leave the Single Market in his campaign to remain and as he was the Prime Minister he had the authority to say so.
So to say it is highly debatable if people were told a vote to leave was to leave the Single Market is frankly wrong, silly, misinformed or just ignoring FACTS
I really don't know why this needed so much explanation. "
Well quite, I'm glad you agree - it was indeed not relevant to what you had to say, because you were trying to change the subject.
I was demonstrating you were wrong to say that Labour would vote against any deal 'even if it cured cancer'. They would have voted for a soft Brexit with a CU and SM membership/alignment.
My use of 'highly debatable' was in response to your claim that being part of or aligned to the SM was ruled out. It clearly wasn't. What Cameron said had zero impact on anything.
If you were merely saying that some people said Brexit would not involve SM membership/alignment, then fine, but again that is irrelevant to the point.
What some people said before the referendum would not stop Labour agreeing to a soft Brexit.
This has indeed required far more explanation than necessary.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Leavers were told a vote to leave was to leave the Single Market though
That's highly debatable,
How is a Fact debatable, that's really really going on a journey to the funny farm
It wasn't on the referendum, was it?
I notice you snip out the rest of my post saying that that isn't relevant to the point being discussed Gotta love when people can't back up their argument and try and move to a new one.
I snipped it out because it wasn't relevant to my point that's why.
I stated the FACT that Cameron said many times in the campaign that voting leave was to leave the Single Market in his campaign to remain and as he was the Prime Minister he had the authority to say so.
So to say it is highly debatable if people were told a vote to leave was to leave the Single Market is frankly wrong, silly, misinformed or just ignoring FACTS
I really don't know why this needed so much explanation.
Well quite, I'm glad you agree - it was indeed not relevant to what you had to say, because you were trying to change the subject.
I was demonstrating you were wrong to say that Labour would vote against any deal 'even if it cured cancer'. They would have voted for a soft Brexit with a CU and SM membership/alignment.
My use of 'highly debatable' was in response to your claim that being part of or aligned to the SM was ruled out. It clearly wasn't. What Cameron said had zero impact on anything.
If you were merely saying that some people said Brexit would not involve SM membership/alignment, then fine, but again that is irrelevant to the point.
What some people said before the referendum would not stop Labour agreeing to a soft Brexit.
This has indeed required far more explanation than necessary.
"
Jesus, you do waffle a hell of a lot to twist out of being wrong lol
Anyway, the main point was I said Cameron insisted leaving meant leaving the Single Market, you seemed to disagree but you were wrong |
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By *ky19Man
over a year ago
Plymouth |
I struggle to see Boris really would leave with a so called 'No deal'.
Two weeks before the referendum, he was fronting a video to Turkey telling them "*splutter* You should jolly well come and *splutter* JOIN the EU *bluh*"
And I'm sure he wanted to remain until shortly before the referendum.
I maintain Boris is a remainer trojan horse, and his orders are likely to hoover up the leave vote from I would presume Brexit, seeing the only other 2 leave parties are what's left of UKIP and... the BNP (wish I could type that in tiny letters).
Then once that's done, the door can finally open and Boris can stumble out.
I'll believe a 'No Deal Boris' when I see it. I don't expect to see it. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I struggle to see Boris really would leave with a so called 'No deal'.
Two weeks before the referendum, he was fronting a video to Turkey telling them "*splutter* You should jolly well come and *splutter* JOIN the EU *bluh*"
And I'm sure he wanted to remain until shortly before the referendum.
I maintain Boris is a remainer trojan horse, and his orders are likely to hoover up the leave vote from I would presume Brexit, seeing the only other 2 leave parties are what's left of UKIP and... the BNP (wish I could type that in tiny letters).
Then once that's done, the door can finally open and Boris can stumble out.
I'll believe a 'No Deal Boris' when I see it. I don't expect to see it."
Where is there not a conspiracy in your world?
Boris will do what's good for Boris. No more, no less. |
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Yes but I like Boris..
He will sort it out and make great Britain great again ...I must get a blue passport and a flag pole for my st George's flag ...support british goods ...you can stick ya bmw up your arse ...and as for your _rench letters ...im banging raw from now on ....lol |
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"Yes but I like Boris..
He will sort it out and make great Britain great again ...I must get a blue passport and a flag pole for my st George's flag ...support british goods ...you can stick ya bmw up your arse ...and as for your _rench letters ...im banging raw from now on ....lol"
Hopefully it will not pass as Boris Johnson is a two faced moron and wipe that smile off his face. Can't stand the guy hope he might be in a ditch yet as promised but he would not even keep that promise.
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"
Leavers were told a vote to leave was to leave the Single Market though
That's highly debatable,
How is a Fact debatable, that's really really going on a journey to the funny farm
It wasn't on the referendum, was it?
I notice you snip out the rest of my post saying that that isn't relevant to the point being discussed Gotta love when people can't back up their argument and try and move to a new one.
I snipped it out because it wasn't relevant to my point that's why.
I stated the FACT that Cameron said many times in the campaign that voting leave was to leave the Single Market in his campaign to remain and as he was the Prime Minister he had the authority to say so.
So to say it is highly debatable if people were told a vote to leave was to leave the Single Market is frankly wrong, silly, misinformed or just ignoring FACTS
I really don't know why this needed so much explanation.
Well quite, I'm glad you agree - it was indeed not relevant to what you had to say, because you were trying to change the subject.
I was demonstrating you were wrong to say that Labour would vote against any deal 'even if it cured cancer'. They would have voted for a soft Brexit with a CU and SM membership/alignment.
My use of 'highly debatable' was in response to your claim that being part of or aligned to the SM was ruled out. It clearly wasn't. What Cameron said had zero impact on anything.
If you were merely saying that some people said Brexit would not involve SM membership/alignment, then fine, but again that is irrelevant to the point.
What some people said before the referendum would not stop Labour agreeing to a soft Brexit.
This has indeed required far more explanation than necessary.
Jesus, you do waffle a hell of a lot to twist out of being wrong lol
Anyway, the main point was I said Cameron insisted leaving meant leaving the Single Market, you seemed to disagree but you were wrong "
I see reading and following an relatively simple argument is too hard for you.
That wasn't the main point at all. We were discussing your claim that Labour would not vote for any kind of deal.
You were wrong about that, and now you're trying to focus on something else that is entirely irrelevant. |
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