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Ulster Says No ( D.U.P )
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"An election is a must now. Brexit can only be sorted one way or another and that's by one party getting a good majority with all their respective MP's towing their party line. If the electorate return no majority then Brexit will probably never get sorted. " Why do so many people think a general election will sort brexit when clearly it won't. The thing is general elections are about a wide range of political and economic policies and the general direction of the country, not a single nationality issue that divides the nations in a non party political way. Like it or not there is only one way to solve brexit and that is for there to be a second referendum now that we can all see the likely reality of leaving the EU. Of course the Tories are dead set against this because brexit is doing exactly what it was meant to do. Dividing the country in a non party way ensuring that they are able to remain in power, and that is what brexit has been about from day one when Cameron thought it up! | |||
"An election is a must now. Brexit can only be sorted one way or another and that's by one party getting a good majority with all their respective MP's towing their party line. If the electorate return no majority then Brexit will probably never get sorted. Why do so many people think a general election will sort brexit when clearly it won't. The thing is general elections are about a wide range of political and economic policies and the general direction of the country, not a single nationality issue that divides the nations in a non party political way. Like it or not there is only one way to solve brexit and that is for there to be a second referendum now that we can all see the likely reality of leaving the EU. Of course the Tories are dead set against this because brexit is doing exactly what it was meant to do. Dividing the country in a non party way ensuring that they are able to remain in power, and that is what brexit has been about from day one when Cameron thought it up!" Without going along with the deeper conspiratorial idea behind your troat I sort off agree about a General Election not really being the best way of sorting the BREXIT issue, especially as a Conservative vote of about 34% could possibly give them an overall majority in The House. However I'm also worried that, BREXIT aside, the country does still need to be governed and, without a General Election soon, I just can't see how that is going to happen. | |||
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"How on earth has Britain got itself into a position where the terms of its departure from the EU are determined by raving lunatics in the political wing of Irish paramilitaries? " It's crazy but also "thank God". Sometimes stubborn narrow-minded bastards can be a real blessing. | |||
"Without going along with the deeper conspiratorial idea behind your troat I sort off agree about a General Election not really being the best way of sorting the BREXIT issue, especially as a Conservative vote of about 34% could possibly give them an overall majority in The House. However I'm also worried that, BREXIT aside, the country does still need to be governed and, without a General Election soon, I just can't see how that is going to happen. " Firstly my 'troat' is not any sort of conspiracy idea, every government manipulates the Treasury and and Parliament for political gain. They all build a 'war chest' so that is used to fund a 'giveaway' budget and they introduce popular legislation in the last parliamentary session prior to a General Election to woo the voters, in the same way they introduce unpopular legislation early in a governments term in office. Cameron saw UKIP was going to split the Tory vote and used the referendum to nullify that threat. There is and was no conspiracy, it was just the machinations of politics. Was the depth of the fracture in the UK have been predicted? I would say yes, in fact I would say some actively agitated for it and others counted on retaining power on the coattails of that agitation. To prove my assertion I give you the 'vote leave' posters, de Pfeffel's now infamous red bus and the murder of Jo Cox. To deny the above is to deny history and that is never a clever thing to do. As for the state of the UK Government and politics in general, again like it or not, a general election is not going to fix anything. The one thing de Pfeffel is correct about is that the Tory inspired brexit trauma must be dealt with before we can even begin to address the underlying social injustices caused by years of Tory ideological austerity that lead to 52% of the country saying 'fuck you' to the political establishment. But hey, what do I know. | |||
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"Without going along with the deeper conspiratorial idea behind your troat I sort off agree about a General Election not really being the best way of sorting the BREXIT issue, especially as a Conservative vote of about 34% could possibly give them an overall majority in The House. However I'm also worried that, BREXIT aside, the country does still need to be governed and, without a General Election soon, I just can't see how that is going to happen. Firstly my 'troat' is not any sort of conspiracy idea, every government manipulates the Treasury and and Parliament for political gain. They all build a 'war chest' so that is used to fund a 'giveaway' budget and they introduce popular legislation in the last parliamentary session prior to a General Election to woo the voters, in the same way they introduce unpopular legislation early in a governments term in office. Cameron saw UKIP was going to split the Tory vote and used the referendum to nullify that threat. There is and was no conspiracy, it was just the machinations of politics. Was the depth of the fracture in the UK have been predicted? I would say yes, in fact I would say some actively agitated for it and others counted on retaining power on the coattails of that agitation. To prove my assertion I give you the 'vote leave' posters, de Pfeffel's now infamous red bus and the murder of Jo Cox. To deny the above is to deny history and that is never a clever thing to do. As for the state of the UK Government and politics in general, again like it or not, a general election is not going to fix anything. The one thing de Pfeffel is correct about is that the Tory inspired brexit trauma must be dealt with before we can even begin to address the underlying social injustices caused by years of Tory ideological austerity that lead to 52% of the country saying 'fuck you' to the political establishment. But hey, what do I know." You don't need the "hey, what do I know". I always treat your comments with respect, even the ones I don't agree with, and believe you make some very insightful contributions to the general debate. | |||
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"It's crazy but also "thank God". Sometimes stubborn narrow-minded bastards can be a real blessing. " Like when they are blocking abortion and gay marriage? Would that be a good enough price to get brexit done, allow them to stop gay marriage into the future? | |||
"You don't need the "hey, what do I know". I always treat your comments with respect, even the ones I don't agree with, and believe you make some very insightful contributions to the general debate. " My apologies, you are correct that last comment was a cheap shot and you did no deserve it. | |||
"An election is a must now. Brexit can only be sorted one way or another and that's by one party getting a good majority with all their respective MP's towing their party line. If the electorate return no majority then Brexit will probably never get sorted. Why do so many people think a general election will sort brexit when clearly it won't. The thing is general elections are about a wide range of political and economic policies and the general direction of the country, not a single nationality issue that divides the nations in a non party political way. Like it or not there is only one way to solve brexit and that is for there to be a second referendum now that we can all see the likely reality of leaving the EU. Of course the Tories are dead set against this because brexit is doing exactly what it was meant to do. Dividing the country in a non party way ensuring that they are able to remain in power, and that is what brexit has been about from day one when Cameron thought it up!" More rubbish,the original referendum was to unite the country behind staying in the EU it backfired | |||
"It just proves the DUP are not a pro british party, but a pro themselves party. This deal will keep britain together, keep britain strong." Very true I just hope it can be got through parliament without the anti democratic DUP | |||
"More rubbish,the original referendum was to unite the country behind staying in the EU it backfired" Even many Tories acknowledge that offering a referendum had nothing to do with uniting the country and everything to do with stopping the Conservative party from tearing itself apart and ensuring that the euro-skeptical wing of the party (and its supporters) did not abandon the party in favour of UKIP. That you yet again deny a historical truth is very telling. Next you're going to be telling us that de Pfeffel has never lied or cheated in his life and that Jo Cox's murder had nothing to do with brexit. | |||
"More rubbish,the original referendum was to unite the country behind staying in the EU it backfired Even many Tories acknowledge that offering a referendum had nothing to do with uniting the country and everything to do with stopping the Conservative party from tearing itself apart and ensuring that the euro-skeptical wing of the party (and its supporters) did not abandon the party in favour of UKIP. That you yet again deny a historical truth is very telling. Next you're going to be telling us that de Pfeffel has never lied or cheated in his life and that Jo Cox's murder had nothing to do with brexit. " You just need to watch " Portillos the trouble with the tories " to know that for certain. All the way back to the humiliation on Black Wednesday & the ERM. | |||
"More rubbish,the original referendum was to unite the country behind staying in the EU it backfired Even many Tories acknowledge that offering a referendum had nothing to do with uniting the country and everything to do with stopping the Conservative party from tearing itself apart and ensuring that the euro-skeptical wing of the party (and its supporters) did not abandon the party in favour of UKIP. That you yet again deny a historical truth is very telling. Next you're going to be telling us that de Pfeffel has never lied or cheated in his life and that Jo Cox's murder had nothing to do with brexit. You just need to watch " Portillos the trouble with the tories " to know that for certain. All the way back to the humiliation on Black Wednesday & the ERM." Thats a good shout....I stayed up far too late watching it last night and it certainly made interesting viewing given that as Portillo was in the party for so long he managed to get some very candid answers from his old chums. An unusual piece of historical work for a political program but a good overview which both confirmed my prejudices but also gave some humanity to the scheming bastards  | |||
"More rubbish,the original referendum was to unite the country behind staying in the EU it backfired Even many Tories acknowledge that offering a referendum had nothing to do with uniting the country and everything to do with stopping the Conservative party from tearing itself apart and ensuring that the euro-skeptical wing of the party (and its supporters) did not abandon the party in favour of UKIP. That you yet again deny a historical truth is very telling. Next you're going to be telling us that de Pfeffel has never lied or cheated in his life and that Jo Cox's murder had nothing to do with brexit. You just need to watch " Portillos the trouble with the tories " to know that for certain. All the way back to the humiliation on Black Wednesday & the ERM. Thats a good shout....I stayed up far too late watching it last night and it certainly made interesting viewing given that as Portillo was in the party for so long he managed to get some very candid answers from his old chums. An unusual piece of historical work for a political program but a good overview which both confirmed my prejudices but also gave some humanity to the scheming bastards "Always made me chuckle when brown was hammered for selling the Gold They forgot they sold the same amount 20 years earlier , which in real terms would have been £30 billion in todays money , not the £4 billion they did or gordon brown did. The best part was when farage said he was cheering in the deaker room Not for eurooe might i add , for the fact he was making so much money. | |||
"How on earth has Britain got itself into a position where the terms of its departure from the EU are determined by raving lunatics in the political wing of Irish paramilitaries? " I doubt if the DUP would like being called ‘Irish’ paramilitaries.... Raving Lunatics maybe, but ‘Irish’ ? | |||
"So where does this leave the 3 b's ? Boris Britain Brexit maybe a 4th b Another Billion ?" Dominic Cummings has played a blinder again. Instead of reaching consensus with 10 DUP MP’s, the idea now is to reach broad consensus with leave voting MP’s cross party instead which makes is far easier to gain a working majority, for a deal. Didn’t see that cumming eh DUP. Outmanoeuvred and out played. | |||
"So where does this leave the 3 b's ? Boris Britain Brexit maybe a 4th b Another Billion ? Dominic Cummings has played a blinder again. Instead of reaching consensus with 10 DUP MP’s, the idea now is to reach broad consensus with leave voting MP’s cross party instead which makes is far easier to gain a working majority, for a deal. Didn’t see that cumming eh DUP. Outmanoeuvred and out played. " Cummings will only have outplayed anyone if the deal is passed. Thats not guarenteed | |||
"How on earth has Britain got itself into a position where the terms of its departure from the EU are determined by raving lunatics in the political wing of Irish paramilitaries? I doubt if the DUP would like being called ‘Irish’ paramilitaries.... Raving Lunatics maybe, but ‘Irish’ ?" Yes, my error. | |||
"How on earth has Britain got itself into a position where the terms of its departure from the EU are determined by raving lunatics in the political wing of Irish paramilitaries? " Point of order; the DUP have never been the political wing of Irish Paramilitaries. Typical of the ignorance of people from mainland Britain | |||
"How on earth has Britain got itself into a position where the terms of its departure from the EU are determined by raving lunatics in the political wing of Irish paramilitaries? Point of order; the DUP have never been the political wing of Irish Paramilitaries. Typical of the ignorance of people from mainland Britain" " The DUP party has been linked to various loyalist paramilitary groups, namely Ulster Resistance (URM) and Third Force. The URM was formed on 10 November 1986 by DUP politicians Paisley, Peter Robinson and Ivan Foster, with the stated aim to "take direct action as and when required" to bring down the Agreement and defeat republicanism. Recruitment rallies were held in towns across Northern Ireland and thousands were said to have joined. The following year, the URM helped smuggle a large shipment of weapons into Northern Ireland, which were shared out between the URM, the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) and the Ulster Defence Association (UDA). In 1989, URM members attempted to trade Shorts' missile blueprints for weapons from the apartheid South African regime " Is the above information wrong then? | |||
"How on earth has Britain got itself into a position where the terms of its departure from the EU are determined by raving lunatics in the political wing of Irish paramilitaries? Point of order; the DUP have never been the political wing of Irish Paramilitaries. Typical of the ignorance of people from mainland Britain The DUP party has been linked to various loyalist paramilitary groups, namely Ulster Resistance (URM) and Third Force. The URM was formed on 10 November 1986 by DUP politicians Paisley, Peter Robinson and Ivan Foster, with the stated aim to "take direct action as and when required" to bring down the Agreement and defeat republicanism. Recruitment rallies were held in towns across Northern Ireland and thousands were said to have joined. The following year, the URM helped smuggle a large shipment of weapons into Northern Ireland, which were shared out between the URM, the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) and the Ulster Defence Association (UDA). In 1989, URM members attempted to trade Shorts' missile blueprints for weapons from the apartheid South African regime Is the above information wrong then? " The two key words are loyalist paramilitaries. A daughter of one of the men convicted of selling british military tech to south africa is a sitting DUP mp. Identity is a funny thing in NI, some unionists may see themselves as both british and irish. Loyalism is a subset of the broader unionist family but is fanatically british. | |||
"How on earth has Britain got itself into a position where the terms of its departure from the EU are determined by raving lunatics in the political wing of Irish paramilitaries? Point of order; the DUP have never been the political wing of Irish Paramilitaries. Typical of the ignorance of people from mainland Britain The DUP party has been linked to various loyalist paramilitary groups, namely Ulster Resistance (URM) and Third Force. The URM was formed on 10 November 1986 by DUP politicians Paisley, Peter Robinson and Ivan Foster, with the stated aim to "take direct action as and when required" to bring down the Agreement and defeat republicanism. Recruitment rallies were held in towns across Northern Ireland and thousands were said to have joined. The following year, the URM helped smuggle a large shipment of weapons into Northern Ireland, which were shared out between the URM, the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) and the Ulster Defence Association (UDA). In 1989, URM members attempted to trade Shorts' missile blueprints for weapons from the apartheid South African regime Is the above information wrong then? " Yes | |||
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"How on earth has Britain got itself into a position where the terms of its departure from the EU are determined by raving lunatics in the political wing of Irish paramilitaries? I doubt if the DUP would like being called ‘Irish’ paramilitaries.... Raving Lunatics maybe, but ‘Irish’ ? Yes, my error. " I disagree. The DUP and indeed most Unionists in Ireland do see themselves as Irish, they just see themselves as British too. It's a fundamental mistake made by many that Irish Unionists want to anything else other than Irish. They don't want to be English, Welsh or Scottish, they want to be Irish but British. In just the same way that I want to English, British and European but don't want to French, German, Belgium or anything else. | |||
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"I disagree. The DUP and indeed most Unionists in Ireland do see themselves as Irish, they just see themselves as British too. It's a fundamental mistake made by many that Irish Unionists want to anything else other than Irish. They don't want to be English, Welsh or Scottish, they want to be Irish but British. In just the same way that I want to English, British and European but don't want to French, German, Belgium or anything else. " It is supposed to work the other way around. You are European first and foremost, then British, then English. Unionists in the North must see themselves as British before Irish, not Irish before British. I do agree they see themselves as Irish, but it should never be Irish first. Unionists have every right to claim they are Irish, they are Irish genetically, they just lived in Scotland for a while then returned. Although their recent history is defined by stanch christian unionisim, their mythical history/pre-history is deep and rich. | |||
"How on earth has Britain got itself into a position where the terms of its departure from the EU are determined by raving lunatics in the political wing of Irish paramilitaries? Point of order; the DUP have never been the political wing of Irish Paramilitaries. Typical of the ignorance of people from mainland Britain The DUP party has been linked to various loyalist paramilitary groups, namely Ulster Resistance (URM) and Third Force. The URM was formed on 10 November 1986 by DUP politicians Paisley, Peter Robinson and Ivan Foster, with the stated aim to "take direct action as and when required" to bring down the Agreement and defeat republicanism. Recruitment rallies were held in towns across Northern Ireland and thousands were said to have joined. The following year, the URM helped smuggle a large shipment of weapons into Northern Ireland, which were shared out between the URM, the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) and the Ulster Defence Association (UDA). In 1989, URM members attempted to trade Shorts' missile blueprints for weapons from the apartheid South African regime Is the above information wrong then? Yes" The Internet disagrees with you. | |||
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"How on earth has Britain got itself into a position where the terms of its departure from the EU are determined by raving lunatics in the political wing of Irish paramilitaries? Point of order; the DUP have never been the political wing of Irish Paramilitaries. Typical of the ignorance of people from mainland Britain The DUP party has been linked to various loyalist paramilitary groups, namely Ulster Resistance (URM) and Third Force. The URM was formed on 10 November 1986 by DUP politicians Paisley, Peter Robinson and Ivan Foster, with the stated aim to "take direct action as and when required" to bring down the Agreement and defeat republicanism. Recruitment rallies were held in towns across Northern Ireland and thousands were said to have joined. The following year, the URM helped smuggle a large shipment of weapons into Northern Ireland, which were shared out between the URM, the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) and the Ulster Defence Association (UDA). In 1989, URM members attempted to trade Shorts' missile blueprints for weapons from the apartheid South African regime Is the above information wrong then? Yes The Internet disagrees with you. " Don’t believe everything you read | |||
"How on earth has Britain got itself into a position where the terms of its departure from the EU are determined by raving lunatics in the political wing of Irish paramilitaries? Point of order; the DUP have never been the political wing of Irish Paramilitaries. Typical of the ignorance of people from mainland Britain The DUP party has been linked to various loyalist paramilitary groups, namely Ulster Resistance (URM) and Third Force. The URM was formed on 10 November 1986 by DUP politicians Paisley, Peter Robinson and Ivan Foster, with the stated aim to "take direct action as and when required" to bring down the Agreement and defeat republicanism. Recruitment rallies were held in towns across Northern Ireland and thousands were said to have joined. The following year, the URM helped smuggle a large shipment of weapons into Northern Ireland, which were shared out between the URM, the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) and the Ulster Defence Association (UDA). In 1989, URM members attempted to trade Shorts' missile blueprints for weapons from the apartheid South African regime Is the above information wrong then? Yes The Internet disagrees with you. Don’t believe everything you read " For instance, the latest Spotlight programmes are full of shit | |||
"How on earth has Britain got itself into a position where the terms of its departure from the EU are determined by raving lunatics in the political wing of Irish paramilitaries? Point of order; the DUP have never been the political wing of Irish Paramilitaries. Typical of the ignorance of people from mainland Britain The DUP party has been linked to various loyalist paramilitary groups, namely Ulster Resistance (URM) and Third Force. The URM was formed on 10 November 1986 by DUP politicians Paisley, Peter Robinson and Ivan Foster, with the stated aim to "take direct action as and when required" to bring down the Agreement and defeat republicanism. Recruitment rallies were held in towns across Northern Ireland and thousands were said to have joined. The following year, the URM helped smuggle a large shipment of weapons into Northern Ireland, which were shared out between the URM, the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) and the Ulster Defence Association (UDA). In 1989, URM members attempted to trade Shorts' missile blueprints for weapons from the apartheid South African regime Is the above information wrong then? Yes The Internet disagrees with you. Don’t believe everything you read " Well, I'm not and that's the point   | |||
"How on earth has Britain got itself into a position where the terms of its departure from the EU are determined by raving lunatics in the political wing of Irish paramilitaries? I doubt if the DUP would like being called ‘Irish’ paramilitaries.... Raving Lunatics maybe, but ‘Irish’ ? Yes, my error. I disagree. The DUP and indeed most Unionists in Ireland do see themselves as Irish, they just see themselves as British too. It's a fundamental mistake made by many that Irish Unionists want to anything else other than Irish. They don't want to be English, Welsh or Scottish, they want to be Irish but British. In just the same way that I want to English, British and European but don't want to French, German, Belgium or anything else. " Have you ever been to Northern Ireland ? | |||
"How on earth has Britain got itself into a position where the terms of its departure from the EU are determined by raving lunatics in the political wing of Irish paramilitaries? I doubt if the DUP would like being called ‘Irish’ paramilitaries.... Raving Lunatics maybe, but ‘Irish’ ? Yes, my error. I disagree. The DUP and indeed most Unionists in Ireland do see themselves as Irish, they just see themselves as British too. It's a fundamental mistake made by many that Irish Unionists want to anything else other than Irish. They don't want to be English, Welsh or Scottish, they want to be Irish but British. In just the same way that I want to English, British and European but don't want to French, German, Belgium or anything else. Have you ever been to Northern Ireland ? " Yes but I wouldn't claim any special knowledge from just visiting. I base my knowledge of Irish Unionist opinion on actually speaking to Irish Unionists, some of whom are extended family members. | |||
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"I don't suppose many watched it on the parliament channel this morning, but the northern ireland secretary got an absolute blistering from the house of commons northern ireland select committee i can see why they are upset... how many people knew that in effect there would not only be border checks... but also tariff charges on goods going from northern ireland to the mainland..... it was interesting watching some ministers and the pm trying to defend the indefendable......" And people wonder why they wanted this rushed through Parliament without proper scrutiny?  | |||
"And people wonder why they wanted this rushed through Parliament without proper scrutiny? "Because the opposition blocked a vote on the deal, so he had to fast track the legislation to meet the deadline, because any extension is in 3rd parties hands. France only wants to give 3 days extension, and its looking like they might lose, but what if they win, what if they veto the longer extension? It would be totally negligent of the UK to assume they have months to prepare, and is prudent of them to attempt to move as quickly as possible to get the deal. Disagree with the deal or not, its nothing but prudent to rush to meet the deadline. Imagine labour crashed the UK out of the EU by assuming the EU would just extend, and planning for other things like general elections and messing about instead of sitting and discussing the deal and the legislation. As soon as the extension is granted, Labour will stop talking about the deal all together. | |||
"So NI loses free trade to the GB but keeps it for the EU. It's the opposite of what the GB is going to experience. I'm losing track of all this I think. " Northern Ireland gets a soft Brexit. Great Britain gets a hard Brexit. Basically. The two territories are diverging. | |||
"And people wonder why they wanted this rushed through Parliament without proper scrutiny?
Because the opposition blocked a vote on the deal, so he had to fast track the legislation to meet the deadline, because any extension is in 3rd parties hands. France only wants to give 3 days extension, and its looking like they might lose, but what if they win, what if they veto the longer extension?
It would be totally negligent of the UK to assume they have months to prepare, and is prudent of them to attempt to move as quickly as possible to get the deal.
Disagree with the deal or not, its nothing but prudent to rush to meet the deadline.
Imagine labour crashed the UK out of the EU by assuming the EU would just extend, and planning for other things like general elections and messing about instead of sitting and discussing the deal and the legislation.
As soon as the extension is granted, Labour will stop talking about the deal all together."If the extension is refused, then the only economically and socially sane course for parliament to take is to cancel A50. It has become apparent over and over that declaring A50 before even having any consensus within the UK on what "leave" means was one of the most mind bogglingly stupid moves of any government within the last 100 years. It has not been possible to prepare to leave within two years, indeed there is still no agreement of what type of "leave" is acceptable. May's continued assertion that "brexit means brexit", picked up by so many on the leave side as a mantra against any questions, was as useless as saying "burble means burble" - just a noise that was empty of information. The UK as a whole needs to take a pause, evaluate the experience of the last three years, and start again. There was a referendum, that cannot be ignored. However the result of this was then weaponised and exploited for purely political purposes, with total disregard for the wellbeing of the country and it's citizens. There needs to be a non-party-political commission to examine where we are, what the people actually want, what options are actually realistic. Produce economic and social costings, and investigate the truth and lies on all sides over the past few years. There needs to be legal teeth, so that any attempts by foreign governments, multi-national organisations or shady financial dealings to influence opinions of the people or the findings of the commission are exposed in the light, with strong measures available as necessary. When detailed, realistic and costed options are available these must be brought back to the people, presented in a non-partisan way, a course of action decided. Then, and only then, should A50 be declared again - if that is indeed the decided course of action - and the following two years be spent properly putting in place all legislation, infrastructure, social rearrangements etc to provide an orderly exit that benefits everybody. The whole process might take ten years, but if it does, it does. We have already seen that it is impossible in three years, doing nothing but bringing the United Kingdom to the brink of catastrophe. On the other hand if the final decision is not to leave the EU, it is not acceptable to just drop the whole matter and pretend it never happened. The referendum showed that a vast number of people in the UK are unhappy with the status quo. Whether unhappiness with EU regulations, perceived influx of foreign population, lashing out against austerity, or many other reasons and combinations of reasons. These need to be brought into the open, and properly addressed by parliament/government/society. Otherwise we are just stuck exactly where we are now for the foreseeable future - until the UK gets stamped on well and truly by the rest of the world while we are all just locked into interminable internal conflict. | |||
"And people wonder why they wanted this rushed through Parliament without proper scrutiny?
Because the opposition blocked a vote on the deal, so he had to fast track the legislation to meet the deadline, because any extension is in 3rd parties hands. France only wants to give 3 days extension, and its looking like they might lose, but what if they win, what if they veto the longer extension?
It would be totally negligent of the UK to assume they have months to prepare, and is prudent of them to attempt to move as quickly as possible to get the deal.
Disagree with the deal or not, its nothing but prudent to rush to meet the deadline.
Imagine labour crashed the UK out of the EU by assuming the EU would just extend, and planning for other things like general elections and messing about instead of sitting and discussing the deal and the legislation.
As soon as the extension is granted, Labour will stop talking about the deal all together.
If the extension is refused, then the only economically and socially sane course for parliament to take is to cancel A50. It has become apparent over and over that declaring A50 before even having any consensus within the UK on what "leave" means was one of the most mind bogglingly stupid moves of any government within the last 100 years. It has not been possible to prepare to leave within two years, indeed there is still no agreement of what type of "leave" is acceptable. May's continued assertion that "brexit means brexit", picked up by so many on the leave side as a mantra against any questions, was as useless as saying "burble means burble" - just a noise that was empty of information.
The UK as a whole needs to take a pause, evaluate the experience of the last three years, and start again.
There was a referendum, that cannot be ignored. However the result of this was then weaponised and exploited for purely political purposes, with total disregard for the wellbeing of the country and it's citizens.
There needs to be a non-party-political commission to examine where we are, what the people actually want, what options are actually realistic. Produce economic and social costings, and investigate the truth and lies on all sides over the past few years. There needs to be legal teeth, so that any attempts by foreign governments, multi-national organisations or shady financial dealings to influence opinions of the people or the findings of the commission are exposed in the light, with strong measures available as necessary.
When detailed, realistic and costed options are available these must be brought back to the people, presented in a non-partisan way, a course of action decided. Then, and only then, should A50 be declared again - if that is indeed the decided course of action - and the following two years be spent properly putting in place all legislation, infrastructure, social rearrangements etc to provide an orderly exit that benefits everybody.
The whole process might take ten years, but if it does, it does. We have already seen that it is impossible in three years, doing nothing but bringing the United Kingdom to the brink of catastrophe.
On the other hand if the final decision is not to leave the EU, it is not acceptable to just drop the whole matter and pretend it never happened. The referendum showed that a vast number of people in the UK are unhappy with the status quo. Whether unhappiness with EU regulations, perceived influx of foreign population, lashing out against austerity, or many other reasons and combinations of reasons. These need to be brought into the open, and properly addressed by parliament/government/society.
Otherwise we are just stuck exactly where we are now for the foreseeable future - until the UK gets stamped on well and truly by the rest of the world while we are all just locked into interminable internal conflict." | |||
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"It is good that they are saying no as they are looking after northern irelands best interest, it is time to cancel brexit alltogether there is no need for a 2nd referendum "That sounds logical enough but what the DUP are looking for will be far more destructive to the northern economy. They are also campaigning for what the majority of the electorate in the six counties voted against. | |||
"It is good that they are saying no as they are looking after northern irelands best interest, it is time to cancel brexit alltogether there is no need for a 2nd referendum
That sounds logical enough but what the DUP are looking for will be far more destructive to the northern economy. They are also campaigning for what the majority of the electorate in the six counties voted against. "Yes they might change change their mind about it. | |||
