FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Let's stop kidding ourselves
Let's stop kidding ourselves
Jump to: Newest in thread
Isn't it time we all stoped kidding ourselves that there is any chance of the UK Leaving the EU this October? I mean we may still Leave eventually and that Leave, if it happens, maybe with or without a deal, but it's definitely just not going to happen this October or even this year.
Anyone who still believes BREXIT is going to happen in October needs to educate themselves on the Law and the power of the Law.
This article may help. It's quite long but explains the current legal situation clearly and it can be summed up in this one paragraph.
"The reality is that the UK is locked into a legal process governed by Article 50 and the Benn Act, and now only something outside of the government’s control which can affect the outcome [of seaking an extension and ] of the operation of those laws."
https://davidallengreen.com/2019/10/the-uk-appears-boxed-in-on-the-brexit-extension/ |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
 |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Isn't it time we all stoped kidding ourselves that there is any chance of the UK Leaving the EU this October? I mean we may still Leave eventually and that Leave, if it happens, maybe with or without a deal, but it's definitely just not going to happen this October or even this year.
Anyone who still believes BREXIT is going to happen in October needs to educate themselves on the Law and the power of the Law.
This article may help. It's quite long but explains the current legal situation clearly and it can be summed up in this one paragraph.
"The reality is that the UK is locked into a legal process governed by Article 50 and the Benn Act, and now only something outside of the government’s control which can affect the outcome [of seaking an extension and ] of the operation of those laws."
https://davidallengreen.com/2019/10/the-uk-appears-boxed-in-on-the-brexit-extension/"
Please add all the facts.
A50 is part of the Lisbon treaty and it states no deal must be included so Benn law is crap because EU law overides UK law. So to follow Benn law you will have to change the Lisbon treaty, good luck with that. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Isn't it time we all stoped kidding ourselves that there is any chance of the UK Leaving the EU this October? I mean we may still Leave eventually and that Leave, if it happens, maybe with or without a deal, but it's definitely just not going to happen this October or even this year.
Anyone who still believes BREXIT is going to happen in October needs to educate themselves on the Law and the power of the Law.
This article may help. It's quite long but explains the current legal situation clearly and it can be summed up in this one paragraph.
"The reality is that the UK is locked into a legal process governed by Article 50 and the Benn Act, and now only something outside of the government’s control which can affect the outcome [of seaking an extension and ] of the operation of those laws."
https://davidallengreen.com/2019/10/the-uk-appears-boxed-in-on-the-brexit-extension/Please add all the facts.
A50 is part of the Lisbon treaty and it states no deal must be included so Benn law is crap because EU law overides UK law. So to follow Benn law you will have to change the Lisbon treaty, good luck with that. "
You clearly haven't read the article. And your assumption that, in this matter, EU law overrides UK is legally wrong.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Isn't it time we all stoped kidding ourselves that there is any chance of the UK Leaving the EU this October? I mean we may still Leave eventually and that Leave, if it happens, maybe with or without a deal, but it's definitely just not going to happen this October or even this year.
Anyone who still believes BREXIT is going to happen in October needs to educate themselves on the Law and the power of the Law.
This article may help. It's quite long but explains the current legal situation clearly and it can be summed up in this one paragraph.
"The reality is that the UK is locked into a legal process governed by Article 50 and the Benn Act, and now only something outside of the government’s control which can affect the outcome [of seaking an extension and ] of the operation of those laws."
https://davidallengreen.com/2019/10/the-uk-appears-boxed-in-on-the-brexit-extension/Please add all the facts.
A50 is part of the Lisbon treaty and it states no deal must be included so Benn law is crap because EU law overides UK law. So to follow Benn law you will have to change the Lisbon treaty, good luck with that.
You clearly haven't read the article. And your assumption that, in this matter, EU law overrides UK is legally wrong.
"
Does the benn law have a provision for the eu refusing an extension, such as revoking article 50?
So stopping a leave on Halloween?
Not taking any side just want to know
 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Isn't it time we all stoped kidding ourselves that there is any chance of the UK Leaving the EU this October? I mean we may still Leave eventually and that Leave, if it happens, maybe with or without a deal, but it's definitely just not going to happen this October or even this year.
Anyone who still believes BREXIT is going to happen in October needs to educate themselves on the Law and the power of the Law.
This article may help. It's quite long but explains the current legal situation clearly and it can be summed up in this one paragraph.
"The reality is that the UK is locked into a legal process governed by Article 50 and the Benn Act, and now only something outside of the government’s control which can affect the outcome [of seaking an extension and ] of the operation of those laws."
https://davidallengreen.com/2019/10/the-uk-appears-boxed-in-on-the-brexit-extension/Please add all the facts.
A50 is part of the Lisbon treaty and it states no deal must be included so Benn law is crap because EU law overides UK law. So to follow Benn law you will have to change the Lisbon treaty, good luck with that.
You clearly haven't read the article. And your assumption that, in this matter, EU law overrides UK is legally wrong.
"
Yes it does read the Lisbon treaty that's all part of the superstate one common law UK law comes second. My God remainers believe everything the EU tells them, out now while we can
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Isn't it time we all stoped kidding ourselves that there is any chance of the UK Leaving the EU this October? I mean we may still Leave eventually and that Leave, if it happens, maybe with or without a deal, but it's definitely just not going to happen this October or even this year.
Anyone who still believes BREXIT is going to happen in October needs to educate themselves on the Law and the power of the Law.
This article may help. It's quite long but explains the current legal situation clearly and it can be summed up in this one paragraph.
"The reality is that the UK is locked into a legal process governed by Article 50 and the Benn Act, and now only something outside of the government’s control which can affect the outcome [of seaking an extension and ] of the operation of those laws."
https://davidallengreen.com/2019/10/the-uk-appears-boxed-in-on-the-brexit-extension/Please add all the facts.
A50 is part of the Lisbon treaty and it states no deal must be included so Benn law is crap because EU law overides UK law. So to follow Benn law you will have to change the Lisbon treaty, good luck with that.
You clearly haven't read the article. And your assumption that, in this matter, EU law overrides UK is legally wrong.
Yes it does read the Lisbon treaty that's all part of the superstate one common law UK law comes second. My God remainers believe everything the EU tells them, out now while we can
"
 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
A50 is part of the Lisbon treaty and it states no deal must be included so Benn law is crap because EU law overides UK law. So to follow Benn law you will have to change the Lisbon treaty, good luck with that. "
Article 50 says nothing about "no deal". Its purpose explicitly is to reach a withdrawal agreement and political declaration with a state leaving the EU.
Once Article 50 is concluded, Article 218 applies.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Isn't it time we all stoped kidding ourselves that there is any chance of the UK Leaving the EU this October? I mean we may still Leave eventually and that Leave, if it happens, maybe with or without a deal, but it's definitely just not going to happen this October or even this year.
Anyone who still believes BREXIT is going to happen in October needs to educate themselves on the Law and the power of the Law.
This article may help. It's quite long but explains the current legal situation clearly and it can be summed up in this one paragraph.
"The reality is that the UK is locked into a legal process governed by Article 50 and the Benn Act, and now only something outside of the government’s control which can affect the outcome [of seaking an extension and ] of the operation of those laws."
https://davidallengreen.com/2019/10/the-uk-appears-boxed-in-on-the-brexit-extension/Please add all the facts.
A50 is part of the Lisbon treaty and it states no deal must be included so Benn law is crap because EU law overides UK law. So to follow Benn law you will have to change the Lisbon treaty, good luck with that.
You clearly haven't read the article. And your assumption that, in this matter, EU law overrides UK is legally wrong.
Yes it does read the Lisbon treaty that's all part of the superstate one common law UK law comes second. My God remainers believe everything the EU tells them, out now while we can
"
Are you able to quote the extract from the Lisbon Treaty that states all UK Law comes second to EU Law? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
You clearly haven't read the article. And your assumption that, in this matter, EU law overrides UK is legally wrong.
Yes it does read the Lisbon treaty that's all part of the superstate one common law UK law comes second. My God remainers believe everything the EU tells them, out now while we can
"
Wrong, EU Law takes precedent in EU matters only and not unrelated UK Law.
In all none EU matters UK Law is supreme and Parliament makes and changes any and all none EU related laws.
You really really need to stop listening to Farage and Facebook scaremongering anti EU tripe and read up for yourself
Here's an article that blows the bullshit from the truth in a lot of the scaremongering EU and Lisbon Treaty rubbish
https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong/ |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
A50 is part of the Lisbon treaty and it states no deal must be included so Benn law is crap because EU law overides UK law. So to follow Benn law you will have to change the Lisbon treaty, good luck with that. "
Here is Article 50in full. Perhaps you can point to the bit that says no deal must be included?
Article 50 – Treaty on European Union (TEU)
1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.
2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.
4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.
A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.
5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"
You clearly haven't read the article. And your assumption that, in this matter, EU law overrides UK is legally wrong.
Yes it does read the Lisbon treaty that's all part of the superstate one common law UK law comes second. My God remainers believe everything the EU tells them, out now while we can
Wrong, EU Law takes precedent in EU matters only and not unrelated UK Law.
In all none EU matters UK Law is supreme and Parliament makes and changes any and all none EU related laws.
You really really need to stop listening to Farage and Facebook scaremongering anti EU tripe and read up for yourself
Here's an article that blows the bullshit from the truth in a lot of the scaremongering EU and Lisbon Treaty rubbish
https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong/"
Here's an extract from full fact;
"How the EU works: EU law and the UK
Published: 11th Mar 2016
EU laws in areas for which the EU is responsible override any conflicting laws of member countries.
Two important ideas make this system work. These are ‘supremacy’, meaning the higher status of EU laws compared to national laws, and ‘direct effect’, meaning that EU laws can be relied on in court.
Both these constitutional principles were recognised decades ago in leading decisions of the EU court.
The court said that they were necessary to ensure the survival of the EU legal system and to guarantee that EU rules are followed in all member countries.
The supremacy of EU laws
The principle of supremacy, or primacy, describes the relationship between EU law and national law.
It says that EU law should prevail if it conflicts with national law.
This ensures that EU rules are applied uniformly throughout the Union.
If national laws could contradict the EU treaties or laws passed by the EU institutions, there wouldn’t be this single set of rules in all member countries.
The UK has accepted the supremacy of EU law for some time
The European Communities Act, passed by Parliament in 1972, accepted the supremacy of EU law. That principle has also been endorsed by the UK courts."
I would think that our membership of the EU apertains directly to EU treaties and laws; as such EU law would be supreme over UK law in this matter. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"
A50 is part of the Lisbon treaty and it states no deal must be included so Benn law is crap because EU law overides UK law. So to follow Benn law you will have to change the Lisbon treaty, good luck with that.
Here is Article 50in full. Perhaps you can point to the bit that says no deal must be included?
Article 50 – Treaty on European Union (TEU)
1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.
2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.
4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.
A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.
5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.
"
Para 3. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
The only EU laws that apply in the UK are ones accepted by the UK.
The UK can veto any and all laws at any time. Its one of the reasons leaving was crazy. Even human rights laws can be ignored by the UK while being in the EU, something that will not be acceptable once they leave. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Isn't it time we all stoped kidding ourselves that there is any chance of the UK Leaving the EU this October? I mean we may still Leave eventually and that Leave, if it happens, maybe with or without a deal, but it's definitely just not going to happen this October or even this year.
Anyone who still believes BREXIT is going to happen in October needs to educate themselves on the Law and the power of the Law.
This article may help. It's quite long but explains the current legal situation clearly and it can be summed up in this one paragraph.
"The reality is that the UK is locked into a legal process governed by Article 50 and the Benn Act, and now only something outside of the government’s control which can affect the outcome [of seaking an extension and ] of the operation of those laws."
https://davidallengreen.com/2019/10/the-uk-appears-boxed-in-on-the-brexit-extension/"
I would not bet on it mate I think we will leave,and know how he will do it but you work it out |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Quick question ... Re TV ADVERT on Brexit.
Is you Passport .... what.. doesnt matter were u visit u need normally to have 6months left
Holiday insurance for sickness. Erm interesting tell me if wrong but isnt the E111 OR EHIC still covers UK traveler to Europe till Dec 2020
Cant remember the 3rd part.
Oh is it trade with mainland Europe. Erm no duty on goods .... waste of. Bloody time ...
Rant over
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Quick question ... Re TV ADVERT on Brexit.
Is you Passport .... what.. doesnt matter were u visit u need normally to have 6months left
Holiday insurance for sickness. Erm interesting tell me if wrong but isnt the E111 OR EHIC still covers UK traveler to Europe till Dec 2020
Cant remember the 3rd part.
Oh is it trade with mainland Europe. Erm no duty on goods .... waste of. Bloody time ...
Rant over
"
agreed all true |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
A50 is part of the Lisbon treaty and it states no deal must be included so Benn law is crap because EU law overides UK law. So to follow Benn law you will have to change the Lisbon treaty, good luck with that.
Here is Article 50in full. Perhaps you can point to the bit that says no deal must be included?
Article 50 – Treaty on European Union (TEU)
1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.
2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.
4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.
A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.
5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.
Para 3."
Reread para 3 again, in in particular the last part. Then reread para 1.
If Johnson acts illegally or not in accordance with our own constitutional requirements then it's quite possible that, legally, even if everyone thinks we have left on 31 October, we might well not have.
Also read the article I attached in the OP. It's not a political article but a legal one. Johnson and/or the Government don't have any other legal opinion but to apply for an extension to article 50 unless Parliament either agrees to a 'no deal' exit or Parliament and the EU agree to a deal.
The only other way we could currently Leave on 31 October is if the EU refused an extension and that's not going to happen (Hungry has already said the stories about its use of a veto are totally false).
Stop basing your beliefs in what is going to happen solely on what you want to happen.
We may still Leave with a deal, although I hope not, but even that won't happen by 31 October and probably not this year.
We won't be leaving with no deal unless it's after a referendum or a General Election in which the Conservative Party, either with or without the BREXIT Party, has an overall majority in Parliament and, while possible, I don't believe that is a likely result.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
