FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Is there a remainer out there that is prepared to put forward their argument based on facts?
Is there a remainer out there that is prepared to put forward their argument based on facts?
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"The REMAINIACS will be along later. they are all working at the moment."
They are all trying to work out how to spin the fact that he has put a proposal to the eu when they all said he wanted to leave without an agreement.  |
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Consider investigating some facts yourself op, so that you start with a more balanced perspective. There are also over3 years of posts from all perspectives, that would potentially refresh your understanding.
Also I'm curious about what deficits you may have in your knowledge base as well as your motivation for creating this post? If you answer those points, you presumably will be briefing others, so that they'll be fully and accurately briefed, before considering whether and how to invest their efforts into your demands.
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By *din OP Man
over a year ago
Birmingham |
"Consider investigating some facts yourself op, so that you start with a more balanced perspective. There are also over3 years of posts from all perspectives, that would potentially refresh your understanding.
Also I'm curious about what deficits you may have in your knowledge base as well as your motivation for creating this post? If you answer those points, you presumably will be briefing others, so that they'll be fully and accurately briefed, before considering whether and how to invest their efforts into your demands.
"
I have read huge numbers of posts and unfortunately none of them are based on any facts, just opinions. and absolutely everyone is entitled to their opinion but unfortunately there is a very vast majority (but I won't say all) of remain perspectives which are purely based on personally bashing brexiteers without any basis. |
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By *din OP Man
over a year ago
Birmingham |
"Consider investigating some facts yourself op, so that you start with a more balanced perspective. There are also over3 years of posts from all perspectives, that would potentially refresh your understanding.
Also I'm curious about what deficits you may have in your knowledge base as well as your motivation for creating this post? If you answer those points, you presumably will be briefing others, so that they'll be fully and accurately briefed, before considering whether and how to invest their efforts into your demands.
"
P.S. a very clever post to avoid putting forward any valid arguments  |
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"Consider investigating some facts yourself op, so that you start with a more balanced perspective. There are also over3 years of posts from all perspectives, that would potentially refresh your understanding.
Also I'm curious about what deficits you may have in your knowledge base as well as your motivation for creating this post? If you answer those points, you presumably will be briefing others, so that they'll be fully and accurately briefed, before considering whether and how to invest their efforts into your demands.
P.S. a very clever post to avoid putting forward any valid arguments "
I'm working until late this evening and this is not my thread |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Consider investigating some facts yourself op, so that you start with a more balanced perspective. There are also over3 years of posts from all perspectives, that would potentially refresh your understanding.
Also I'm curious about what deficits you may have in your knowledge base as well as your motivation for creating this post? If you answer those points, you presumably will be briefing others, so that they'll be fully and accurately briefed, before considering whether and how to invest their efforts into your demands.
"
I'll cut and paste this next time any threads or posts ask for brexiters facts for voting leave. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Just interested....."
What argument?
There are hundreds of them.
Let’s start with something simple. In business it its easier and much more efficient to get more business from your existing customer base than it is to try to find new business in remote locations. Ergo, there is no economic logic in creating new barriers and red tape to deal with your closet and largest trading partners in the hope that more and better business might be found somewhere else. OK this is not an absolute fact that you asked for, but it is not far off considering that it was this very reason that the UK was so energetic in conceptualising and driving forward the Single Market under Margaret Thatchers Premiership. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
How about the purchasing power of your £?
Down 15-20% already.
And Johnson's chums are lining up to cash in on it crashing through the floor.
Because the money markets can see what Brexit will do to Britain's economy. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
And because society makes progress when it takes barriers down.
Brexit does the opposite.
It puts barriers back up.
It isolates us from our neighbours, our biggest markets.
It is the most insular act of self-harm.
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"And because society makes progress when it takes barriers down.
Brexit does the opposite.
It puts barriers back up.
It isolates us from our neighbours, our biggest markets.
It is the most insular act of self-harm.
"
but opens up other doors. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Mental illness associated with Brexit.
Doctors reported the case of a British man who suffered from severe psychosis because of Brexit. The man was so delusional and hallucinating that he was taken to a psychiatric hospital, where he tried to bury himself in the floor with his bare hands. The matter was described in a scientific journal. |
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"Just interested.....
There is no point in putting forward an argument. You can't win an argument with stupid people.so anyone who doesnt agree with you are stupid?"
No, not at all. Only when it comes to Brexit. |
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"And because society makes progress when it takes barriers down.
Brexit does the opposite.
It puts barriers back up.
It isolates us from our neighbours, our biggest markets.
It is the most insular act of self-harm.
but opens up other doors. "
Other doors that aren't going to balance out the damage done.
Other doors where we will negotiate from a far, far weaker position.
Other doors that will see the US walk all over us and change our laws to get a deal. But that'll be OK for Brexiteers, for some reason. |
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"And because society makes progress when it takes barriers down.
Brexit does the opposite.
It puts barriers back up.
It isolates us from our neighbours, our biggest markets.
It is the most insular act of self-harm.
but opens up other doors. "
Trap door? |
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"Mental illness associated with Brexit.
Doctors reported the case of a British man who suffered from severe psychosis because of Brexit. The man was so delusional and hallucinating that he was taken to a psychiatric hospital, where he tried to bury himself in the floor with his bare hands. The matter was described in a scientific journal."
Jacob Rees Mogg |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Mental illness associated with Brexit.
Doctors reported the case of a British man who suffered from severe psychosis because of Brexit. The man was so delusional and hallucinating that he was taken to a psychiatric hospital, where he tried to bury himself in the floor with his bare hands. The matter was described in a scientific journal.
Jacob Rees Mogg"
I wouldn't be surprised |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Just interested....."
sorry... what am i suppose to be argueing against...
because i am soo looking forward to be paying more for my goods because of the tariffs that will go on them.... |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Just interested....."
No idea what argument you are referring to specifically. I guess just the general ‘remaining is better than leaving’?
We will lose the right to live and work in 27 other countries. And with that we will lose the rights to protections we currently have (reciprocal heath care, etc)
This endeavour will hurt us more than it will thirty the EU. As already evidenced by our currency dropping value and our GDP growth lower than rest of EU.
How is that for a start?
-Matt |
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"Just interested.....Nice one got most of them baffled they have no facts  "
I think you are the one who is baffled. Do you want facts about something that hasn't happened?
It was claimed by the Leave campaign that Turkey was going to join the EU. The fact is that Turkey applied to join 30 years ago and they're still no closer to doing so.
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"Consider investigating some facts yourself op, so that you start with a more balanced perspective. There are also over3 years of posts from all perspectives, that would potentially refresh your understanding.
Also I'm curious about what deficits you may have in your knowledge base as well as your motivation for creating this post? If you answer those points, you presumably will be briefing others, so that they'll be fully and accurately briefed, before considering whether and how to invest their efforts into your demands.
"
Didn't answer my points I notice.  |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"How about the purchasing power of your £?
Down 15-20% already.
And Johnson's chums are lining up to cash in on it crashing through the floor.
Because the money markets can see what Brexit will do to Britain's economy."
How about in Feb 2016 the IMF and OECD both reported that sterling was overvalued by up to 20%, and woukd need devaluing for the UK to remain competitive. |
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By *obletonMan
over a year ago
A Home Among The Woodland Creatures |
I simply haven't heard any compelling arguments for leaving.
The conservative approach under those circumstances would be to maintain the status quo until such a time as we have both a stong argument for leaving, a political party in power with both the will and the mandate to do it, and a clear vision for what we should do once we have left.
we have none of those three at this moment in time so we must revert to conservatism. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Just interested....."
Less barriers to trade
Lower costs for trading because of trade agreements
Membership of numerous organisations that benefit the UK which facilities joint cooperation on scientific research, security etc etc in a cost sharing partnership
The ability to live, work and retire anywhere freely within 28 countries
Membership of the world’s largest trading bloc with over 500 million consumers
The UK has greater global influence as a member of the EU than just on our own.
The EU provides a counterweight to the global power of the US, Russia and China instead of us just being on our own.
The EU accounts for 44% of all UK exports of goods and services in a frictionless low cost manner
The EU accounts for 53% of all UK imports of goods and services in a frictionless low cost manner
No paperwork or customs for UK exports throughout the single market
Structural funding from the EU for areas of the UK hit by industrial decline, small businesses, the arts, theatre, sports, film,engineering projects etc etc etc that successive UK Government's have left to rot
The UK enjoys an opt out from the single currency and any future major changes within the EU such as being forced into an EU Army and maintains full control of its borders as a non-member of the Schengen area "though UK Government's refuse to do so"
Is that enough for you?
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
How about in Feb 2016 the IMF and OECD both reported that sterling was overvalued by up to 20%, and woukd need devaluing for the UK to remain competitive."
So why did the UK Government not devalue the £? It has the power to do so. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Just interested.....
As regards the original question - is there a Brexit voter who can do the same?
Their campaign wasn't based on facts - and that is actually a fact. LOL"
They have their own thread to do just that but no one has had a go yet |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Just interested.....
Less barriers to trade
Lower costs for trading because of trade agreements
Membership of numerous organisations that benefit the UK which facilities joint cooperation on scientific research, security etc etc in a cost sharing partnership
The ability to live, work and retire anywhere freely within 28 countries
Membership of the world’s largest trading bloc with over 500 million consumers
The UK has greater global influence as a member of the EU than just on our own.
The EU provides a counterweight to the global power of the US, Russia and China instead of us just being on our own.
The EU accounts for 44% of all UK exports of goods and services in a frictionless low cost manner
The EU accounts for 53% of all UK imports of goods and services in a frictionless low cost manner
No paperwork or customs for UK exports throughout the single market
Structural funding from the EU for areas of the UK hit by industrial decline, small businesses, the arts, theatre, sports, film,engineering projects etc etc etc that successive UK Government's have left to rot
The UK enjoys an opt out from the single currency and any future major changes within the EU such as being forced into an EU Army and maintains full control of its borders as a non-member of the Schengen area "though UK Government's refuse to do so"
Is that enough for you?
"
I would say that is a very good representation of some of the current benefits of being in the EU..... |
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"The REMAINIACS will be along later. they are all working at the moment.They are all trying to work out how to spin the fact that he has put a proposal to the eu when they all said he wanted to leave without an agreement. "
He’s basically cobbled together something as unworkable as it was two years ago.
This notion that the EU won’t compromise is utter nonsense. The Withdrawal Bill already agreed after over two years of negotiations is the compromise.
Further compromise from the EU isn’t compromise at all, it’s a move away from the compromise, towards what we might want. The blame tactic is so transparent a five year old monkey could see through it.
If you want facts, watch this video....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UYonSZ8s3_o
Then I welcome anyone to come back and counter the numerous facts covered with coherent, objective counter arguments....
Then we’ll see about tumble.... |
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"Just interested.....
Less barriers to trade
Lower costs for trading because of trade agreements
Membership of numerous organisations that benefit the UK which facilities joint cooperation on scientific research, security etc etc in a cost sharing partnership
The ability to live, work and retire anywhere freely within 28 countries
Membership of the world’s largest trading bloc with over 500 million consumers
The UK has greater global influence as a member of the EU than just on our own.
The EU provides a counterweight to the global power of the US, Russia and China instead of us just being on our own.
The EU accounts for 44% of all UK exports of goods and services in a frictionless low cost manner
The EU accounts for 53% of all UK imports of goods and services in a frictionless low cost manner
No paperwork or customs for UK exports throughout the single market
Structural funding from the EU for areas of the UK hit by industrial decline, small businesses, the arts, theatre, sports, film,engineering projects etc etc etc that successive UK Government's have left to rot
The UK enjoys an opt out from the single currency and any future major changes within the EU such as being forced into an EU Army and maintains full control of its borders as a non-member of the Schengen area "though UK Government's refuse to do so"
Is that enough for you?
"
But what about the three pin plugs? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The REMAINIACS will be along later. they are all working at the moment.They are all trying to work out how to spin the fact that he has put a proposal to the eu when they all said he wanted to leave without an agreement. "
They all said that did "they"
I don't think "they" did  |
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Basically accusing whichever side of this argument we disagree with of having an argument based on lies isn’t actually very helpful. I say this as a remainer, but what I want to see is people actually reaching out across this toxic divide rather than winding each other up. (Yes, I have copied and pasted from a very similar thread looking at things from the opposite perspective) |
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UK is no longer the empire of the sun; it is in fact only twice as big as Venezuela in terms of population, and around 10% of the EU. Therefore, for the UK to have a say in the world, it will better achieve that purpose if inside the EU (specially with its roughly 12% influence power in the EU decision making). |
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Ive learnt from reading the politics forum over the last 3 years that most people don't give a fuck. There's about 6 regular remainer posters, a couple of leavers , a few of us who are happy just to troll anyone foolish enough to listen. One guy who likes to report what his friends think about it, and that's kind of it.
What worries me is that both sides seem to think that coming over like a conceited bore will somehow change the other sides opinion. It won't happen.
Well off remainers attacking leavers for being moronic and poorly educated is not a good place to win hearts and minds from.
Likewise assuming all remainers are trying to protect cheap winter-sun holidays is probably not, on the whole, accurate. Some of them don't even ski! Only sail...  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ive learnt from reading the politics forum over the last 3 years that most people don't give a fuck. There's about 6 regular remainer posters, a couple of leavers , a few of us who are happy just to troll anyone foolish enough to listen. One guy who likes to report what his friends think about it, and that's kind of it.
What worries me is that both sides seem to think that coming over like a conceited bore will somehow change the other sides opinion. It won't happen.
Well off remainers attacking leavers for being moronic and poorly educated is not a good place to win hearts and minds from.
Likewise assuming all remainers are trying to protect cheap winter-sun holidays is probably not, on the whole, accurate. Some of them don't even ski! Only sail... "
But I am not well off.... |
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The USA applying tariffs to China, EU, whilst continuing tariffs with several other countries, makes the thought of having "the best deal ever" with a protective administration AFTER brexit a nonsensical paradox. |
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"
Well off remainers attacking leavers for being moronic and poorly educated is not a good place to win hearts and minds from.
"
I've never attacked a leaver for being moronic (I earn a pretty average salary, top). But I, and many others, on this forum and on social media and in newspapers and in actual government, have pointed out facts and logical arguments that go against the pie in the sky claims Brexiteers make.
It doesn't make any difference. Brexit is a religion. You can't 'both sides' this. I've been waiting for three years for someone to give me the evidence in favour of Brexit, and all I get is 'we won get over it'. |
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I think what some remainers fail to grasp is that some people just want to leave the EU. They don't need a reason. If we all made decisions based on sound reason we'd all support Manchester city. Some people go with their gut. Some people can have a honors
degree in political studies, but still not know how to wire a plug.
It takes all sorts we don't know what motivates people to vote either way. If you've got close business ties with Europe you probably voted remain. If you feel your plumbing business has been hit by an influx of polish plumbers you probably voted leave.
The actual fore and against remaining in the EU argument is really meaningless to most. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Posts by Clem-H-Fandango are the best
"
Yep well done Clem. You have about hit the nail on the head there . Not that I agree with your politics but yep you are 100% there. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I can't be bothered any more. Brexiteers never listen anyway so what's the point. zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Infact I don't think anyone is much bothered any more. I imagine Juncker and his mates gave up listening a long time ago. zzzzzzzzzzz
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"Posts by Clem-H-Fandango are the best
Yep well done Clem. You have about hit the nail on the head there . Not that I agree with your politics but yep you are 100% there."
I voted remain and usually vote labour, i assume you're a leave supporting Tory? It takes all sorts to make a world xx |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
From both the perspective of both population and disposable income per head, the EU forms one of the largest and wealthiest regions of the world.
Together is has as much economic, military and political power as either China or the USA. Far more than Russia.
The UK is one of the largest and most influential members of this group. This allows us a level of international influence far in excess of that we would have alone.
We are able to gain international trade deals, attract investment and talent on a scale unimaginable on our own.
We also benefit from the economies of scale of a wide range of regulatory bodies being paid for as a group rather than individually. Everything from medicines to competition to communications. This allows the EU to introduce regulations that can curtail the influence of global corporations like Microsoft and Facebook and Apple. Again, something we would not have the clout to do on our own.
Just like trade unions can get far better benefits for their members by collective bargaining than an individual. It's a well established concept.
Ants.
Bees.
Any organisation that acts together rather than in-fighting creates more for all. Resolving disputes face to face in a rules based system also means that military intimidation is not part of the process with the the associated risk of a miscalculation leading to more than just threats.
From a business perspective we are economically very close to being a single country. Our domestic market is the entire EU not just the UK. We are perfectly able to trade with the rest of the world. Germany seems to be far better at it than us from within the EU so I do not see how leaving will help that.
Are there compromises? Of course there are. Signing up to any set of rules by definition leads to a "loss of freedom", but that is no different to any agreement either personal or between companies or nations.
The benefits far outweigh the negatives.
Enough information? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"And because society makes progress when it takes barriers down.
Brexit does the opposite.
It puts barriers back up.
It isolates us from our neighbours, our biggest markets.
It is the most insular act of self-harm.
but opens up other doors. "
Germany is China's second biggest trading partner.
They are a huge exporter.
They are in the EU.
What has prevented us? |
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"And because society makes progress when it takes barriers down.
Brexit does the opposite.
It puts barriers back up.
It isolates us from our neighbours, our biggest markets.
It is the most insular act of self-harm.
but opens up other doors.
Germany is China's second biggest trading partner.
They are a huge exporter.
They are in the EU.
What has prevented us?"
Maybe Germany didn't want the competition? Maybe that wasn't Britain's role within the EU, maybe we have to concentrate on service industry? What we be the point of member states being in competition with each other? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And because society makes progress when it takes barriers down.
Brexit does the opposite.
It puts barriers back up.
It isolates us from our neighbours, our biggest markets.
It is the most insular act of self-harm.
but opens up other doors.
Germany is China's second biggest trading partner.
They are a huge exporter.
They are in the EU.
What has prevented us?"
Leavers blame the EU, that's why we're in the current situation |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And because society makes progress when it takes barriers down.
Brexit does the opposite.
It puts barriers back up.
It isolates us from our neighbours, our biggest markets.
It is the most insular act of self-harm.
but opens up other doors.
Germany is China's second biggest trading partner.
They are a huge exporter.
They are in the EU.
What has prevented us?
Maybe Germany didn't want the competition? Maybe that wasn't Britain's role within the EU, maybe we have to concentrate on service industry? What we be the point of member states being in competition with each other?"
So how does / did Germany suppress the UK's manufacturing then? |
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"And because society makes progress when it takes barriers down.
Brexit does the opposite.
It puts barriers back up.
It isolates us from our neighbours, our biggest markets.
It is the most insular act of self-harm.
but opens up other doors.
Germany is China's second biggest trading partner.
They are a huge exporter.
They are in the EU.
What has prevented us?
Maybe Germany didn't want the competition? Maybe that wasn't Britain's role within the EU, maybe we have to concentrate on service industry? What we be the point of member states being in competition with each other?
So how does / did Germany suppress the UK's manufacturing then? "
Im not saying Germany as an individual state does. If you look at the EU as a corporation, does it make sense to have 2 of your highest earning divisions (largest contributors) in competition with each other? No. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"And because society makes progress when it takes barriers down.
Brexit does the opposite.
It puts barriers back up.
It isolates us from our neighbours, our biggest markets.
It is the most insular act of self-harm.
but opens up other doors.
Germany is China's second biggest trading partner.
They are a huge exporter.
They are in the EU.
What has prevented us?
Maybe Germany didn't want the competition? Maybe that wasn't Britain's role within the EU, maybe we have to concentrate on service industry? What we be the point of member states being in competition with each other?
So how does / did Germany suppress the UK's manufacturing then?
Im not saying Germany as an individual state does. If you look at the EU as a corporation, does it make sense to have 2 of your highest earning divisions (largest contributors) in competition with each other? No. "
It's nothing that we had to do. It's what we chose to do.
France retains a lot of manufacturing. So does Italy.
We have chosen to do things. Enough of blaming someone else. Outside forces for pushing something on us against our will. |
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"And because society makes progress when it takes barriers down.
Brexit does the opposite.
It puts barriers back up.
It isolates us from our neighbours, our biggest markets.
It is the most insular act of self-harm.
but opens up other doors.
Germany is China's second biggest trading partner.
They are a huge exporter.
They are in the EU.
What has prevented us?
Maybe Germany didn't want the competition? Maybe that wasn't Britain's role within the EU, maybe we have to concentrate on service industry? What we be the point of member states being in competition with each other?
So how does / did Germany suppress the UK's manufacturing then?
Im not saying Germany as an individual state does. If you look at the EU as a corporation, does it make sense to have 2 of your highest earning divisions (largest contributors) in competition with each other? No.
It's nothing that we had to do. It's what we chose to do.
France retains a lot of manufacturing. So does Italy.
We have chosen to do things. Enough of blaming someone else. Outside forces for pushing something on us against our will."
Who said it was against our will? Office workers emailing insurance quotes are much less likely to go on strike than hairy ass manufacturing engineers. Or coal miners, and who cares if they do?In the uk our past industrial action had bitten us on the ass. In manufacturing, we only lead Europe in aerospace. After Brexit, that will probably be an end to that to. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Posts by Clem-H-Fandango are the best
Yep well done Clem. You have about hit the nail on the head there . Not that I agree with your politics but yep you are 100% there.
I voted remain and usually vote labour, i assume you're a leave supporting Tory? It takes all sorts to make a world xx"
Ha ha, you're 50% right LOL
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Car production
Nissan may consider relocating SUV (Juke and Qashqai) production from the UK to other countries if the British actually withdraw from the European Union and fail to secure trade agreements. The "Automotive News" service reached such information. Earlier the Japanese manufacturer has abandoned the production of the largest SUV in the European range called X-Trail at the Sunderland factory. Although there was such a plan. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Opens new doors?
To what?
Manufacturing and agriculture here will be wiped out by the policy decisions of the Conservatives.
What's left to sell?
Financial services?
Oh, yes, let me go take a look at the CVs of the Cabinet, their declarations of interest, and come back to you.
Hmmmm.
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"The USA applying tariffs to China, EU, whilst continuing tariffs with several other countries, makes the thought of having "the best deal ever" with a protective administration AFTER brexit a nonsensical paradox."
Not to mention Truss basically say that we’d be happy to lower standards in order to “have more flexibility”. The idea that a Trump led deal with the US would be in anything other the US’s best interests is laughable. |
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"I think what some remainers fail to grasp is that some people just want to leave the EU. They don't need a reason. If we all made decisions based on sound reason we'd all support Manchester city. Some people go with their gut. Some people can have a honors
degree in political studies, but still not know how to wire a plug.
It takes all sorts we don't know what motivates people to vote either way. If you've got close business ties with Europe you probably voted remain. If you feel your plumbing business has been hit by an influx of polish plumbers you probably voted leave.
The actual fore and against remaining in the EU argument is really meaningless to most. "
Maybe that’s the entire point. Voting on such an important thing surely shouldn’t have been done by people for whom the arguments were meaningless. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Brexit has been and will always be an emotional choice over reason.
Freedom from something perceived negative will always elicit an emotional response.
Emotions ruled over logic and reason .Simply put it was heart over mind.  |
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"I think what some remainers fail to grasp is that some people just want to leave the EU. They don't need a reason. If we all made decisions based on sound reason we'd all support Manchester city. Some people go with their gut. Some people can have a honors
degree in political studies, but still not know how to wire a plug.
It takes all sorts we don't know what motivates people to vote either way. If you've got close business ties with Europe you probably voted remain. If you feel your plumbing business has been hit by an influx of polish plumbers you probably voted leave.
The actual fore and against remaining in the EU argument is really meaningless to most.
Maybe that’s the entire point. Voting on such an important thing surely shouldn’t have been done by people for whom the arguments were meaningless."
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"The USA applying tariffs to China, EU, whilst continuing tariffs with several other countries, makes the thought of having "the best deal ever" with a protective administration AFTER brexit a nonsensical paradox.
Not to mention Truss basically say that we’d be happy to lower standards in order to “have more flexibility”. The idea that a Trump led deal with the US would be in anything other the US’s best interests is laughable."
Truss: What on earth is that?... This is not meant to be sexist btw: I respect (and miss) Theresa May, specially after currently suffering ClownBoJo. But seriously: How come someone so worringly ignorant is in her position? |
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"And because society makes progress when it takes barriers down.
Brexit does the opposite.
It puts barriers back up.
It isolates us from our neighbours, our biggest markets.
It is the most insular act of self-harm.
but opens up other doors.
Germany is China's second biggest trading partner.
They are a huge exporter.
They are in the EU.
What has prevented us?
Leavers blame the EU, that's why we're in the current situation "
I think they generally just blame anyone else, never themselves, for everything. They take no responsibility for anything negative, however catastrophic, that they do or may cause. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
Not to mention Truss basically say that we’d be happy to lower standards in order to “have more flexibility”. The idea that a Trump led deal with the US would be in anything other the US’s best interests is laughable."
If the shambles made by the UK of trying to exit the EU is illustrative of the UK's negotiating skills and strengths, we are well and truly fucked.
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"
Not to mention Truss basically say that we’d be happy to lower standards in order to “have more flexibility”. The idea that a Trump led deal with the US would be in anything other the US’s best interests is laughable.
If the shambles made by the UK of trying to exit the EU is illustrative of the UK's negotiating skills and strengths, we are well and truly fucked.
"
Some of this stuff is so blindingly obvious it’s almost unbelievable that so many people still either don’t get it, or don’t care.
Simply put, we likely will have to “be more flexible” to get a deal with the US, because we’ll be far more dependent on the US than they are on us.
You don’t, for example, see us insisting on higher standards like the EU standards, and the US talking about doing that to “be more flexible” in order to get a deal with the US.
If that doesn’t make our relative position on the world stage clear, I don’t know what does. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Anyway, I am not too concerned about a trade agreement with the US.
It won't happen.
Whatever bluster Johnson and Chump come out with.
Congress has made it clear it will not approve anything until the border issue is resolved to the satisfaction of the Irish.
None of these issues will disappear on November 1.
The difference is the UK will on the outside, knocking on the door trying to get back in, rather than being on the inside, trying to get out.
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