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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
What political organisation does not allow its supporters to vote for its leader?
Which political organisation does not allow its supporters to vote for its policies?
Which political party does not allow its supporters to vote for its candidates?
The Brexit party does not allow this.
Is that democratic? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Single-issue campaign group.
That's fine.
Is it democratic? Is part of their argument to be defending democracy?"
The way their party is ran then no they are not a democratic political party, their leader is not elected and they have no members that have any voting rights for the direction of the party, just a dictator. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What political organisation does not allow its supporters to vote for its leader?
Which political organisation does not allow its supporters to vote for its policies?
Which political party does not allow its supporters to vote for its candidates?
The Brexit party does not allow this.
Is that democratic?"
Is it legal though? Yes it is. A party can be formed, its member have decided to accept its rules.
Anyone can create a party, with its own rules.
If it wants to do what the brexit party want then it can,
If it wants to be a the same as a democratic party then it can do it.
But its really up to the person who forms it. |
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"What political organisation does not allow its supporters to vote for its leader?
Which political organisation does not allow its supporters to vote for its policies?
Which political party does not allow its supporters to vote for its candidates?
The Brexit party does not allow this.
Is that democratic?
Is it legal though? Yes it is. A party can be formed, its member have decided to accept its rules.
Anyone can create a party, with its own rules.
If it wants to do what the brexit party want then it can,
If it wants to be a the same as a democratic party then it can do it.
But its really up to the person who forms it."
I think you've missed the point.
This is the Brexit party that claims to be fighting the "elitist establishment" top down control. Telling people what to do.
This is the Brexit party that claims to be upholding democracy.
I'm not saying that they can't do it. I'm saying that they are hypocrites as are their supporters. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What political organisation does not allow its supporters to vote for its leader?
Which political organisation does not allow its supporters to vote for its policies?
Which political party does not allow its supporters to vote for its candidates?
The Brexit party does not allow this.
Is that democratic?
Is it legal though? Yes it is. A party can be formed, its member have decided to accept its rules.
Anyone can create a party, with its own rules.
If it wants to do what the brexit party want then it can,
If it wants to be a the same as a democratic party then it can do it.
But its really up to the person who forms it."
Indeed and nobody is arguing against that case. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"What political organisation does not allow its supporters to vote for its leader?
Which political organisation does not allow its supporters to vote for its policies?
Which political party does not allow its supporters to vote for its candidates?
The Brexit party does not allow this.
Is that democratic?
Is it legal though? Yes it is. A party can be formed, its member have decided to accept its rules.
Anyone can create a party, with its own rules.
If it wants to do what the brexit party want then it can,
If it wants to be a the same as a democratic party then it can do it.
But its really up to the person who forms it.
Indeed and nobody is arguing against that case. "
This really is how Dictatorships start. Offer simple solutions to complex problems and put your arm around your new friends shoulders and point them in the direction of their problem and promise to solve it. Get widespread populist support. Get elected and show people what “ your kind of democracy is really about.” In the best interest of the nation, obviously. |
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It’s good you have brought this up as you are highlighting the complete disconnection between the Labour MPs sitting in our Parliament happily sabotaging Democracy and the actual people they represent outside their little Westminster bubble and the little group of political activists that surround them in their constituencies .
To even be entered as a candidate for leader of the Labour Party you need 15% of Labour MPs to support you and in the Leadership campaign of 2015 Corbyn got 15.52% so he very nearly couldn’t stand as his fellow MPs didn’t want him as leader . His opponents (mainly Blairite disciples who still worship their master) were Andy Burnham with 29% , Yvette Cooper 25% and Liz Kendal 17% .The rest of the MPs didn’t vote for anybody.
When it came to the actual people voting for the leader ie the members and affiliates the final vote was Corbyn 59.5 % , Burnham 19 , Cooper 17 . Kendal 4.5 .
This highlights beautifully how disconnected those establishment MPs are from the country itself. |
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"It’s good you have brought this up as you are highlighting the complete disconnection between the Labour MPs sitting in our Parliament happily sabotaging Democracy and the actual people they represent outside their little Westminster bubble and the little group of political activists that surround them in their constituencies .
To even be entered as a candidate for leader of the Labour Party you need 15% of Labour MPs to support you and in the Leadership campaign of 2015 Corbyn got 15.52% so he very nearly couldn’t stand as his fellow MPs didn’t want him as leader . His opponents (mainly Blairite disciples who still worship their master) were Andy Burnham with 29% , Yvette Cooper 25% and Liz Kendal 17% .The rest of the MPs didn’t vote for anybody.
When it came to the actual people voting for the leader ie the members and affiliates the final vote was Corbyn 59.5 % , Burnham 19 , Cooper 17 . Kendal 4.5 .
This highlights beautifully how disconnected those establishment MPs are from the country itself. "
It demonstrates that there were a number of voting steps for good reason.
You have to carry your Parliamentary constituency as well as your party. In this case the make-up of the party changed considerably with new members compared.
The skills for managing a party are different to those for winning votes in the wider population. Both are necessary.
There are also votes on policy.
Despite the omnishambles of the Conservatives, Labour is languishing because Corbyn has not made internal coalitions and compromises and built bridges.
That's what democracy actually requires to function.
Just like the Tories and the country.
Explain the democratic connection that the Brexit party has with its "supporters". How to they control and influence its development?
You feel that you need to be told who to vote for and what to vote for? You'd like a little less choice and control?
I am looking you because you are making a contrary claim, but that may well be a subconscious need in a country that feels chaotic. However, that is the end of true democracy whilst claiming to be wanting to "get our country back". |
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The Brexit party shouldn’t exist.Its existence is a popular reaction to the severe disconnect that’s occurred between the Parliament people since 2016. How democratic is it compared to the other parties time will only tell because it’s not been around long enough to be able to form an opinion . My gut feeling is it will not be much different to the other political parties as power or the lure of power is very corrupting and I’ve had a deep and longstanding loathing of most politicians . Given this sorry state of affairs that I’ve observed for about 40 years I turned off politics and more or less ignored it but when I realised the vote in 16 was going to be reversed by any possible means by these same politicians for me that was the straw that broke the Camels back so to speak . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The Brexit party shouldn’t exist.Its existence is a popular reaction to the severe disconnect that’s occurred between the Parliament people since 2016. How democratic is it compared to the other parties time will only tell because it’s not been around long enough to be able to form an opinion . My gut feeling is it will not be much different to the other political parties as power or the lure of power is very corrupting and I’ve had a deep and longstanding loathing of most politicians . Given this sorry state of affairs that I’ve observed for about 40 years I turned off politics and more or less ignored it but when I realised the vote in 16 was going to be reversed by any possible means by these same politicians for me that was the straw that broke the Camels back so to speak ."
And there you have your own answer! Being disconnected from politics has allowed the tories to strip away everything positive from the country over the ten years of austerity they introduced. That and the suppurating pustule of London and the south east all founded on a bubble of artificially inflated property prices designed to benefit the rich elites has led to a realisation amongst the rest of the country that they are falling behind in every area of life. So along comes a proto fascist leader (Nige) who speaks for the common man while actually being a stock market trader and famously earning a living for doing fuck all while an MEP, and suddenly the lazy feckless disengaged fuckwits who didnt bother to care about politics jump up with a new found evangelical revelation that they know the only answer is to cut ourselves adrift and sail off to a new world? God give me strength  |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
love the way its all the torys fault
1: they were governin with the lib dems the first four or five years
2: under labour or new labour whatever the left call themselves everything was not rosy. they ignored the rest of the country just like the torys did well apart from doing up a few city centres in the north labour were more intrested in big buisness and hanging out with celebs than tjey were about there voters.
will now wait patiently for someone to tell me but they wasnt real labour hahahaha people with there own minds know they all as bad as each other |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Single-issue campaign group.
That's fine.
Is it democratic? Is part of their argument to be defending democracy?"
A company limited by guarantee is exactly that.
Brexit Party Ltd.
Its operating model is that of a business, not a democratic political party.
Its activists presumably are happy with that arrangement.
Far bigger reasons why I'd never vote for them than their structure.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Mr Jones above is slowly become unhinged . If there was ever an better example of a Remoaner snowflake being triggered I’ve yet to see it. "
You must be from a different world, because in this world no one writes such stupidity. There are a few strange people on the forum (they are brexiters) but you are the best at it. Our congratulations.  |
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"The Brexit party shouldn’t exist.Its existence is a popular reaction to the severe disconnect that’s occurred between the Parliament people since 2016. How democratic is it compared to the other parties time will only tell because it’s not been around long enough to be able to form an opinion . My gut feeling is it will not be much different to the other political parties as power or the lure of power is very corrupting and I’ve had a deep and longstanding loathing of most politicians . Given this sorry state of affairs that I’ve observed for about 40 years I turned off politics and more or less ignored it but when I realised the vote in 16 was going to be reversed by any possible means by these same politicians for me that was the straw that broke the Camels back so to speak ."
UKIP existed before most people gave a toss about anything EU related.
It scared the Tories into a referendum with a small vote. The tail wagged the dog.
It raised racism and lies in the campaign that its leader pushed.
The Brexit Party is undemocratic. It has been set-up and run as a dictatorship.
The promises from the referendum are undeliverable.
"Just leaving" and "getting it done" are easy phrases, not a thing that can be done.
Do you really not understand that? |
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