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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Not impressed by the conference, mainly due to imoression they're putting the party before the country just like the tories. Reason being jo swinson said they wouldn't form a coalition with labour to get the tories out because although corbyn "isn't fit to be pm" but... She is 
That pissed me off |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I think they have been much more consistent over Europe than the other parties but I don't really agree with the idea of revoking Article 50 without another referendum."
Yes that too. I suppose they're going to interperate a vote for them is a vote to revoke. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I think they have been much more consistent over Europe than the other parties but I don't really agree with the idea of revoking Article 50 without another referendum.
Yes that too. I suppose they're going to interperate a vote for them is a vote to revoke. "
A sort of quazi 2nd referendum |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Well it will be in their manifesto so they are being up front - just not sure it will get them as many votes as they think."
Yeah you're right there on both counts |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
For the avoidance of doubt this is the Lib Dem position on Brexit.
1) Right now as it stands, they want a public confirmatory vote with Remain on the ballot.
2) In the event that A50 is extended and there will be an upcoming election their policy would be to stand on a manifesto of revoking A50 if they achieved a majority and formed a Government.
These are clear and unambiguous positions that have been voted on by the Lib Dem membership. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"For the avoidance of doubt this is the Lib Dem position on Brexit.
1) Right now as it stands, they want a public confirmatory vote with Remain on the ballot.
2) In the event that A50 is extended and there will be an upcoming election their policy would be to stand on a manifesto of revoking A50 if they achieved a majority and formed a Government.
These are clear and unambiguous positions that have been voted on by the Lib Dem membership. "
And if the confirmatory vote was still to leave? I guarantee you they would not accept the result and claim the public have been misled again. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Not impressed by the conference, mainly due to imoression they're putting the party before the country just like the tories. Reason being jo swinson said they wouldn't form a coalition with labour to get the tories out because although corbyn "isn't fit to be pm" but... She is
That pissed me off"
What do you expect from a woman who as part of the coalition in 2010 to 2015 voted for austerity, raising student fees, and has voted more times with the Tories than with Labour. |
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"For the avoidance of doubt this is the Lib Dem position on Brexit.
1) Right now as it stands, they want a public confirmatory vote with Remain on the ballot.
2) In the event that A50 is extended and there will be an upcoming election their policy would be to stand on a manifesto of revoking A50 if they achieved a majority and formed a Government.
These are clear and unambiguous positions that have been voted on by the Lib Dem membership.
And if the confirmatory vote was still to leave? I guarantee you they would not accept the result and claim the public have been misled again. "
The leader has already said if a second referendum returned the same result - she would still not accept it .
They seem much happier with the empire building Mr Verhofstadt  |
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"I think they have been much more consistent over Europe than the other parties but I don't really agree with the idea of revoking Article 50 without another referendum.
Yes that too. I suppose they're going to interperate a vote for them is a vote to revoke. "
Yep. And that's why I voted for them at the last general election (the first time I had ever voted libdem) and why I'm going to vote for them at the next one. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"For the avoidance of doubt this is the Lib Dem position on Brexit.
1) Right now as it stands, they want a public confirmatory vote with Remain on the ballot.
2) In the event that A50 is extended and there will be an upcoming election their policy would be to stand on a manifesto of revoking A50 if they achieved a majority and formed a Government.
These are clear and unambiguous positions that have been voted on by the Lib Dem membership.
And if the confirmatory vote was still to leave? I guarantee you they would not accept the result and claim the public have been misled again.
The leader has already said if a second referendum returned the same result - she would still not accept it .
They seem much happier with the empire building Mr Verhofstadt "
Shows what she and her party thinks of democracy and the electorate |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Not impressed by the conference, mainly due to imoression they're putting the party before the country just like the tories. Reason being jo swinson said they wouldn't form a coalition with labour to get the tories out because although corbyn "isn't fit to be pm" but... She is
That pissed me off
What do you expect from a woman who as part of the coalition in 2010 to 2015 voted for austerity, raising student fees, and has voted more times with the Tories than with Labour. "
What did the Labour 2010 manifesto say about making savings (austerity)? ..,
All parties fought the 2010 election on promises to save money, |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Swindon did not day any thing about a second vote at conference ....but from day 1 she will try to cancel britex...very democratic "
You voted for Brexit. You still think Brexit is a good idea - ergo you don’t listen. |
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As I said in another thread, if the LibDems get 325+ seats at the next General Election then I think that that by its self would be a very clear indication that the will of the people is not to do BREXIT. I personally wouldn't be opposed to having a further confirmatory referendum after that but it would be a bit of a waist of time and money.
If the LibDems don't get 325+ seats (a far more likely scenario) then the policy will be, as it is now, a confirmatory referendum on the deal with remain as an option.
Jo Swinton has never said she wouldn't accept the result of a confirmatory referendum. What she has said is that she wouldn't agree with the result and neither would I. Like Jo I think BREXIT is the worst thing this country could possibly do and I wouldn't agree with it even if 99.9999% voted for it. However not agreeing with something is not the same as not accepting it. If there is a confirmatory referendum on BREXIT and the people vote in favour of BREXIT again now knowing more about the reality of BREXIT, even if by a smaller margin, then provided the campaign was run fairly and legally, we would all have to accept it. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"As I said in another thread, if the LibDems get 325+ seats at the next General Election then I think that that by its self would be a very clear indication that the will of the people is not to do BREXIT. I personally wouldn't be opposed to having a further confirmatory referendum after that but it would be a bit of a waist of time and money.
If the LibDems don't get 325+ seats (a far more likely scenario) then the policy will be, as it is now, a confirmatory referendum on the deal with remain as an option.
Jo Swinton has never said she wouldn't accept the result of a confirmatory referendum. What she has said is that she wouldn't agree with the result and neither would I. Like Jo I think BREXIT is the worst thing this country could possibly do and I wouldn't agree with it even if 99.9999% voted for it. However not agreeing with something is not the same as not accepting it. If there is a confirmatory referendum on BREXIT and the people vote in favour of BREXIT again now knowing more about the reality of BREXIT, even if by a smaller margin, then provided the campaign was run fairly and legally, we would all have to accept it."
You have to exept it if it happens it will be a fact of life Justas day follows night |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I do not trust or want either Boris or Jeremy as my PM so I will vote LibDems for the 1st time. Simple as that... They will not win the next election but they will hold the balance in a minority government. |
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They've eyed the scene and decided that they have this one factor that sets them apart. I view them as opportunists, though for party, self, then country. They will likely gain more MPs but that's not hard ATM. |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
Another hung parliament.
Lib Dems will go into coalition for a grab at power.
Will drop revoke article 50 for that grab at power.
People who voted for Lib Dems to revoke article 50 will see them as liars just to get their votes.
Revoking Article 50 will do to Jo Swinson what the student fees promise did to Nick Clegg.
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By *ild_oatsMan
over a year ago
the land of saints & sinners |
"For the avoidance of doubt this is the Lib Dem position on Brexit.
1) Right now as it stands, they want a public confirmatory vote with Remain on the ballot.
2) In the event that A50 is extended and there will be an upcoming election their policy would be to stand on a manifesto of revoking A50 if they achieved a majority and formed a Government.
These are clear and unambiguous positions that have been voted on by the Lib Dem membership.
And if the confirmatory vote was still to leave? I guarantee you they would not accept the result and claim the public have been misled again.
The leader has already said if a second referendum returned the same result - she would still not accept it .
They seem much happier with the empire building Mr Verhofstadt
Shows what she and her party thinks of democracy and the electorate"
Actually this is what Democracy is about.... You set out your position on policy and put it to the public in a general election where you choose to vote for them or not...
It’s exactly the same as a political party standing on repealing the law that makes it illegal for a person (knowingly) with the plague to flag down a taxi or ride on a bus.
The Lib Dem’s have made it clear on there position on Europe and Brexit its up to you to make your choice.....
It’s a pity more political parties are not more unambiguous...
Support for the EU and Europe should be the natural home for Labour as they are meant to the party of progressive politics..... But dithering on this issue has only weakened their position.
Whilst they may have lost a voter I won’t support the demonising of JC that has been rife in the Tory press and been swallowed by a large part of the population....
It is certainly not un or anti democratic to give a choice....  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"For the avoidance of doubt this is the Lib Dem position on Brexit.
1) Right now as it stands, they want a public confirmatory vote with Remain on the ballot.
2) In the event that A50 is extended and there will be an upcoming election their policy would be to stand on a manifesto of revoking A50 if they achieved a majority and formed a Government.
These are clear and unambiguous positions that have been voted on by the Lib Dem membership.
And if the confirmatory vote was still to leave? I guarantee you they would not accept the result and claim the public have been misled again.
The leader has already said if a second referendum returned the same result - she would still not accept it .
They seem much happier with the empire building Mr Verhofstadt
Shows what she and her party thinks of democracy and the electorate
Actually this is what Democracy is about.... You set out your position on policy and put it to the public in a general election where you choose to vote for them or not...
It’s exactly the same as a political party standing on repealing the law that makes it illegal for a person (knowingly) with the plague to flag down a taxi or ride on a bus.
The Lib Dem’s have made it clear on there position on Europe and Brexit its up to you to make your choice.....
It’s a pity more political parties are not more unambiguous...
Support for the EU and Europe should be the natural home for Labour as they are meant to the party of progressive politics..... But dithering on this issue has only weakened their position.
Whilst they may have lost a voter I won’t support the demonising of JC that has been rife in the Tory press and been swallowed by a large part of the population....
It is certainly not un or anti democratic to give a choice.... "
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Another hung parliament.
Lib Dems will go into coalition for a grab at power.
Will drop revoke article 50 for that grab at power.
People who voted for Lib Dems to revoke article 50 will see them as liars just to get their votes.
Revoking Article 50 will do to Jo Swinson what the student fees promise did to Nick Clegg.
"
Rubbish.
Intelligent people know that compromises sometimes have to be made. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Another hung parliament.
Lib Dems will go into coalition for a grab at power.
Will drop revoke article 50 for that grab at power.
People who voted for Lib Dems to revoke article 50 will see them as liars just to get their votes.
Revoking Article 50 will do to Jo Swinson what the student fees promise did to Nick Clegg.
Rubbish.
Intelligent people know that compromises sometimes have to be made."
Ardent leavers don't have compromise in their vocabulary |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Another hung parliament.
Lib Dems will go into coalition for a grab at power.
Will drop revoke article 50 for that grab at power.
People who voted for Lib Dems to revoke article 50 will see them as liars just to get their votes.
Revoking Article 50 will do to Jo Swinson what the student fees promise did to Nick Clegg.
Rubbish.
Intelligent people know that compromises sometimes have to be made."
So what will they compromise to? |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Another hung parliament.
Lib Dems will go into coalition for a grab at power.
Will drop revoke article 50 for that grab at power.
People who voted for Lib Dems to revoke article 50 will see them as liars just to get their votes.
Revoking Article 50 will do to Jo Swinson what the student fees promise did to Nick Clegg.
Rubbish.
Intelligent people know that compromises sometimes have to be made.
Ardent leavers don't have compromise in their vocabulary "
Neither do ardent remainers  |
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"Another hung parliament.
Lib Dems will go into coalition for a grab at power.
Will drop revoke article 50 for that grab at power.
People who voted for Lib Dems to revoke article 50 will see them as liars just to get their votes.
Revoking Article 50 will do to Jo Swinson what the student fees promise did to Nick Clegg.
"
As they have repeatedly made clear, their policy is to stop BREXIT. If they form the majority in the next Parliament (that is have more than 325+ seats) then they will do it by revoking article 50. If they do not get 325+ seats (a far more likely scenario) then they will stop BREXIT via a people's vote.
I'm sure even you would agree that if the LibDems did actually get 325+ seats in the next Parliament that that would be a pretty clear indication that the will of the people was not for BREXIT any more.
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Another hung parliament.
Lib Dems will go into coalition for a grab at power.
Will drop revoke article 50 for that grab at power.
People who voted for Lib Dems to revoke article 50 will see them as liars just to get their votes.
Revoking Article 50 will do to Jo Swinson what the student fees promise did to Nick Clegg.
As they have repeatedly made clear, their policy is to stop BREXIT. If they form the majority in the next Parliament (that is have more than 325+ seats) then they will do it by revoking article 50. If they do not get 325+ seats (a far more likely scenario) then they will stop BREXIT via a people's vote.
I'm sure even you would agree that if the LibDems did actually get 325+ seats in the next Parliament that that would be a pretty clear indication that the will of the people was not for BREXIT any more.
"
And like you say, it's far more likely that they won't - which by your own logic would mean that the country is not for stopping brexit.
But what if they don't stop brexit by another referendum - assuming that's what you mean by 'people's vote'? What if there is another referendum and it's the same, or similar, result? What then? |
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"Another hung parliament.
Lib Dems will go into coalition for a grab at power.
Will drop revoke article 50 for that grab at power.
People who voted for Lib Dems to revoke article 50 will see them as liars just to get their votes.
Revoking Article 50 will do to Jo Swinson what the student fees promise did to Nick Clegg.
As they have repeatedly made clear, their policy is to stop BREXIT. If they form the majority in the next Parliament (that is have more than 325+ seats) then they will do it by revoking article 50. If they do not get 325+ seats (a far more likely scenario) then they will stop BREXIT via a people's vote.
I'm sure even you would agree that if the LibDems did actually get 325+ seats in the next Parliament that that would be a pretty clear indication that the will of the people was not for BREXIT any more.
And like you say, it's far more likely that they won't - which by your own logic would mean that the country is not for stopping brexit.
But what if they don't stop brexit by another referendum - assuming that's what you mean by 'people's vote'? What if there is another referendum and it's the same, or similar, result? What then?"
No, it doesn't follow that just because the LibDems get less than 325+ seats it means the people do want BREXIT.
Because of the peculiarities of the FPTP systems between 30 to 40% of the vote can give either the Labour Party or Conservative party 325+ seats. For the LibDems the same percentage vote would deliver between 100 to 200 seats and for the BREXIT Party possibly still less than 100. So for the LibDems to get 325+ seats they would probably need over 50% of the vote.
As for your argument that if any future referendum gave a similar result as the last Remainers would ask for another and another, I don't think so. As I've already said on many threads on here over the last 3 years, if, now knowing far more about what Leaving the EU actually means and the campaign for Leave is run fairly and legally then, even if the margin of victory was lower for Leave than in 2016, we would have to accept that that truly was the will of the people. I still wouldn't agree with it but I would with regret have to accept it.
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Another hung parliament.
Lib Dems will go into coalition for a grab at power.
Will drop revoke article 50 for that grab at power.
People who voted for Lib Dems to revoke article 50 will see them as liars just to get their votes.
Revoking Article 50 will do to Jo Swinson what the student fees promise did to Nick Clegg.
As they have repeatedly made clear, their policy is to stop BREXIT. If they form the majority in the next Parliament (that is have more than 325+ seats) then they will do it by revoking article 50. If they do not get 325+ seats (a far more likely scenario) then they will stop BREXIT via a people's vote.
I'm sure even you would agree that if the LibDems did actually get 325+ seats in the next Parliament that that would be a pretty clear indication that the will of the people was not for BREXIT any more.
And like you say, it's far more likely that they won't - which by your own logic would mean that the country is not for stopping brexit.
But what if they don't stop brexit by another referendum - assuming that's what you mean by 'people's vote'? What if there is another referendum and it's the same, or similar, result? What then?
No, it doesn't follow that just because the LibDems get less than 325+ seats it means the people do want BREXIT.
Because of the peculiarities of the FPTP systems between 30 to 40% of the vote can give either the Labour Party or Conservative party 325+ seats. For the LibDems the same percentage vote would deliver between 100 to 200 seats and for the BREXIT Party possibly still less than 100. So for the LibDems to get 325+ seats they would probably need over 50% of the vote.
As for your argument that if any future referendum gave a similar result as the last Remainers would ask for another and another, I don't think so. As I've already said on many threads on here over the last 3 years, if, now knowing far more about what Leaving the EU actually means and the campaign for Leave is run fairly and legally then, even if the margin of victory was lower for Leave than in 2016, we would have to accept that that truly was the will of the people. I still wouldn't agree with it but I would with regret have to accept it.
"
But the Lib Dems have said that they wouldn't.... Go figure. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Another hung parliament.
Lib Dems will go into coalition for a grab at power.
Will drop revoke article 50 for that grab at power.
People who voted for Lib Dems to revoke article 50 will see them as liars just to get their votes.
Revoking Article 50 will do to Jo Swinson what the student fees promise did to Nick Clegg.
As they have repeatedly made clear, their policy is to stop BREXIT. If they form the majority in the next Parliament (that is have more than 325+ seats) then they will do it by revoking article 50. If they do not get 325+ seats (a far more likely scenario) then they will stop BREXIT via a people's vote.
I'm sure even you would agree that if the LibDems did actually get 325+ seats in the next Parliament that that would be a pretty clear indication that the will of the people was not for BREXIT any more.
And like you say, it's far more likely that they won't - which by your own logic would mean that the country is not for stopping brexit.
But what if they don't stop brexit by another referendum - assuming that's what you mean by 'people's vote'? What if there is another referendum and it's the same, or similar, result? What then?
No, it doesn't follow that just because the LibDems get less than 325+ seats it means the people do want BREXIT.
Because of the peculiarities of the FPTP systems between 30 to 40% of the vote can give either the Labour Party or Conservative party 325+ seats. For the LibDems the same percentage vote would deliver between 100 to 200 seats and for the BREXIT Party possibly still less than 100. So for the LibDems to get 325+ seats they would probably need over 50% of the vote.
As for your argument that if any future referendum gave a similar result as the last Remainers would ask for another and another, I don't think so. As I've already said on many threads on here over the last 3 years, if, now knowing far more about what Leaving the EU actually means and the campaign for Leave is run fairly and legally then, even if the margin of victory was lower for Leave than in 2016, we would have to accept that that truly was the will of the people. I still wouldn't agree with it but I would with regret have to accept it.
But the Lib Dems have said that they wouldn't.... Go figure."
At least it gives people a choice doesn't it and only if enough people actually voted for them would the Lib Dems get into power to act on it. |
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