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By *eakcouple OP Couple
over a year ago
peak district |
Is it right to try Soldier F, an ex-member of the Parachute Regiment for murder and attempted murder, and in a Londonderry court too? Especially as Tony Blair and Peter Hain gave convicted IRA murderers and murder suspects 'get out off jail free' letters?
History has been comprehensively re-written when it concerns the IRA's part in "The Troubles." Martin McGuinness is believed to have set up the whole Bloody Sunday incident as a trap for the Army, which succeeded. I was serving in NI at the time (my first of 3 tours in the early 70s) and intelligence reports stated he fired the first shots at the Paras. No weapons were said to have been found on the 'victims' but the IRA was skilled at spiriting away evidence. Ex-Operation Banner (NI security) people, like myself, feel Soldier F was only doing his duty.
What purpose, other than appeasing the IRA and their sympathisers, is served by putting an elderly soldier on trial near 50 years after one solitary incident? When no IRA members have been put on trial for decades? |
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Yes it is fair. If soldier F and others had been punished for their crimes, they would have also gotten letters freeing them as part of GFA.
Right now if Ireland or UK find any new crimes by the IRA, even historic ones, they go to jail for them. They get treated no different to soldier f.
The people who were killed did nothing wrong, they were not IRA.
If you served in the forces then you know shooting at unarmed people is a war crime. We all seen the footage, we all seen the photos, people going out with white flags to try save unarmed people getting shot and murdered. People shot at point blank range with no weapons. A priest..
The IRA had no sympathizers in that march. It contained both protestant and catholic people. None of them, not one, has ever said the IRA shot first.
But even if the IRA shoot first, shooting unarmed people dead is still a war crime.
Putting them on trial has nothing to do with appeasing IRA, and all about doing what is right. Saying to the Republic of Ireland, and nationalist, "We fucked up, and we finally put a right to it", and hearing back from the Republic "Thank you"
Of course Ex-operation banner people will feel like he was just doing his job killing unarmed people. It's long been said that these people believed their job was to kill unarmed "irish" people. But feeling afriad, and feeling scared, and not kowing what to do, doesnt let you kill people and say "a bullet might have passed by us first". |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
I've seen enough cover-ups by the Establishment in my time to conclude that "intelligence" serves whatever purpose its author wants it to serve.
I'll leave it to a jury to decide the truth. |
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Soldier F will not be tried by a jury. He will be tried in a Diplock Court.
Diplock courts were criminal courts in Northern Ireland for non-jury trial of specified serious crimes ("scheduled offences"). They were introduced by the Northern Ireland (Emergency Provisions) Act 1973, used for political and terrorism-related cases during the Troubles, and abolished by the Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Act 2007. Non-jury trial remains possible in Northern Ireland on a case-by-case certification rather than automatically applying for scheduled offences.
The case has been adjourned until December 4th this year. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think it's wrong.
I thought a line had been drawn under the whole sorry mess so people could get on with their lives and not open up old wounds and divisions
There's loads of dead soldiers and RUC families still living with the loss, same as Irish families on the other side of the divide, all the PIRA jailed had been released, why start it up only against one side? |
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"I think it's wrong.
I thought a line had been drawn under the whole sorry mess so people could get on with their lives and not open up old wounds and divisions
There's loads of dead soldiers and RUC families still living with the loss, same as Irish families on the other side of the divide, all the PIRA jailed had been released, why start it up only against one side? "
Well you assumed wrong. There are open investigations in the Republic of Ireland into historical killings/crimes by the IRA.
The solider is getting treated exactly the same as anyone who committed a crime back then and did not get amnesty with the GFA.
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0502/1047092-seamus-marley/
They could have got amnesty for soldier F, and from memory they were contacted and refused. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Soldier F will not be tried by a jury. He will be tried in a Diplock Court.
Diplock courts were criminal courts in Northern Ireland for non-jury trial of specified serious crimes ("scheduled offences"). They were introduced by the Northern Ireland (Emergency Provisions) Act 1973, used for political and terrorism-related cases during the Troubles, and abolished by the Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Act 2007. Non-jury trial remains possible in Northern Ireland on a case-by-case certification rather than automatically applying for scheduled offences.
The case has been adjourned until December 4th this year."
What makes you think he will be tried in a Diplock court ? |
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My apologies I mixed him up with Dennis Hutchings.
Former soldier Dennis Hutchings' appeal to the Supreme Court against a decision to try him in a Diplock Court has been dismissed.
It was unanimously dismissed in the Supreme Court in London on Thursday (6 June 2019).
Mr Hutchings is due to be tried for attempted murder in connection with a fatal shooting in Northern Ireland in 1974.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I've seen enough cover-ups by the Establishment in my time to conclude that "intelligence" serves whatever purpose its author wants it to serve.
I'll leave it to a jury to decide the truth."
.
Ooooo common ground, who'd have thought it  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"My apologies I mixed him up with Dennis Hutchings.
Former soldier Dennis Hutchings' appeal to the Supreme Court against a decision to try him in a Diplock Court has been dismissed.
It was unanimously dismissed in the Supreme Court in London on Thursday (6 June 2019).
Mr Hutchings is due to be tried for attempted murder in connection with a fatal shooting in Northern Ireland in 1974.
"
I thought you might have.
Even then it doesnt tell the full story of "diplock courts", in the North of Ireland ,
Any British Sodier in a diplock court will not have suffered torture during interogation,
He will not have his defence evidence dismissed by a biased judge , to rid the streets of
people defending there community during a conflict/war .
( catholic or protestant).
He will be given the best defence money can buy , he will be treated with respect & dignity that a british court should offer to all , but didnt.
Idont think it was your point so apologies for adding this in.
If every prisoner in the north after a diplock court was introduced had the ability to have the cases challenged , 95% would have been thrown out as unsafe convictiins in any normal time.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think it's wrong.
I thought a line had been drawn under the whole sorry mess so people could get on with their lives and not open up old wounds and divisions
There's loads of dead soldiers and RUC families still living with the loss, same as Irish families on the other side of the divide, all the PIRA jailed had been released, why start it up only against one side?
Well you assumed wrong. There are open investigations in the Republic of Ireland into historical killings/crimes by the IRA.
The solider is getting treated exactly the same as anyone who committed a crime back then and did not get amnesty with the GFA.
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0502/1047092-seamus-marley/
They could have got amnesty for soldier F, and from memory they were contacted and refused."
OK, I thought everything associated with the "Troubles" had been wiped from the slate so to speak.
To be honest I've never followed the Irish issues that much but as long as both sides are been treated the same then it OK. |
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"Is it right to try Soldier F, an ex-member of the Parachute Regiment for murder and attempted murder, and in a Londonderry court too? Especially as Tony Blair and Peter Hain gave convicted IRA murderers and murder suspects 'get out off jail free' letters?
History has been comprehensively re-written when it concerns the IRA's part in "The Troubles." Martin McGuinness is believed to have set up the whole Bloody Sunday incident as a trap for the Army, which succeeded. I was serving in NI at the time (my first of 3 tours in the early 70s) and intelligence reports stated he fired the first shots at the Paras. No weapons were said to have been found on the 'victims' but the IRA was skilled at spiriting away evidence. Ex-Operation Banner (NI security) people, like myself, feel Soldier F was only doing his duty.
What purpose, other than appeasing the IRA and their sympathisers, is served by putting an elderly soldier on trial near 50 years after one solitary incident? When no IRA members have been put on trial for decades? "
Where to start? Lets start with you being an ex soldier who served in NI. When and where were you told it was your duty to kill republicans? Let me guess, in a barrack room from the same arse who told you that if you were firing baton rounds to aim to hit the ground just over half way to the crowd so it would hit them round chest to head height, unless there were kids in the crowd then aim to hit their heads. The same arse as told you to try and get cut on the face because the compensation was £1000 a stitch. The same fucker who told you to make false range declarations to steal ammo so you had 'but fuck' could take potshots at 'taigs' without breaking the seal on your issued rounds. Did he also tell you to carry 'GoGaz' and a pull-through to clean up the evidence afterwards?
Remember what you were taught during basic training? Bet it was that it was your duty to defend the country and die doing so if necessary. Not that it was your duty to kill civilians! In fact I'll give you penny to pound odds that you were told multiple times that it was your first duty to obey the law regardless of who ordered you to break it, and that following orders was no defence if you broke the law!
Now that brings me to your questions, should soldier F be tried for his alleged crimes? Of course he should! Should he be tried where he allegedly committed his crimes? Again, yes, he is no different to any other alleged criminal and should face trial where the offences were committed.
You mention immunity letters signed at the time of the GFA as reason why murders who killed while serving the British state should not be held to account, remember we were and are the occupying power not the other way round. Also remember we locked up thousands and tortured god knows how many without trial in The Maze. So please, stop with the false equivalency to defend a killer. Because like it or not virtually every unit had its share of arses who were looking for a chance to kill without consequences and we all knew it.
As for your final defense of it was the victims fault, they forced the poor soldiers into murdering them. Are you for real? When you hear of a child or woman being beaten up by a d*unken man or an individual being attacked by a gang are you the shit who claims they had it coming?
I don't know how long you served for, or in what unit, but I PVRed after 5 years 205 days, and one thing I learned in that time was that the paras were animals that smashed up everywhere they went on the slightest pretext.
Stop defending the indefensible by claiming that 50 years of official cover-ups and conspiracies to pervert justice somehow exonerates the perpetrators of the original act of mass murder. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it right to try Soldier F, an ex-member of the Parachute Regiment for murder and attempted murder, and in a Londonderry court too? Especially as Tony Blair and Peter Hain gave convicted IRA murderers and murder suspects 'get out off jail free' letters?
History has been comprehensively re-written when it concerns the IRA's part in "The Troubles." Martin McGuinness is believed to have set up the whole Bloody Sunday incident as a trap for the Army, which succeeded. I was serving in NI at the time (my first of 3 tours in the early 70s) and intelligence reports stated he fired the first shots at the Paras. No weapons were said to have been found on the 'victims' but the IRA was skilled at spiriting away evidence. Ex-Operation Banner (NI security) people, like myself, feel Soldier F was only doing his duty.
What purpose, other than appeasing the IRA and their sympathisers, is served by putting an elderly soldier on trial near 50 years after one solitary incident? When no IRA members have been put on trial for decades? "
Military "intelligence" contradiction in terms |
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By *eakcouple OP Couple
over a year ago
peak district |
"
Where to start? Lets start with you being an ex soldier who served in NI. When and where were you told it was your duty to kill republicans? Let me guess, in a barrack room from the same arse who told you that if you were firing baton rounds to aim to hit the ground just over half way to the crowd so it would hit them round chest to head height, unless there were kids in the crowd then aim to hit their heads. The same arse as told you to try and get cut on the face because the compensation was £1000 a stitch. The same fucker who told you to make false range declarations to steal ammo so you had 'but fuck' could take potshots at 'taigs' without breaking the seal on your issued rounds. Did he also tell you to carry 'GoGaz' and a pull-through to clean up the evidence afterwards?
Remember what you were taught during basic training? Bet it was that it was your duty to defend the country and die doing so if necessary. Not that it was your duty to kill civilians! In fact I'll give you penny to pound odds that you were told multiple times that it was your first duty to obey the law regardless of who ordered you to break it, and that following orders was no defence if you broke the law!
Now that brings me to your questions, should soldier F be tried for his alleged crimes? Of course he should! Should he be tried where he allegedly committed his crimes? Again, yes, he is no different to any other alleged criminal and should face trial where the offences were committed.
You mention immunity letters signed at the time of the GFA as reason why murders who killed while serving the British state should not be held to account, remember we were and are the occupying power not the other way round. Also remember we locked up thousands and tortured god knows how many without trial in The Maze. So please, stop with the false equivalency to defend a killer. Because like it or not virtually every unit had its share of arses who were looking for a chance to kill without consequences and we all knew it.
As for your final defense of it was the victims fault, they forced the poor soldiers into murdering them. Are you for real? When you hear of a child or woman being beaten up by a d*unken man or an individual being attacked by a gang are you the shit who claims they had it coming?
I don't know how long you served for, or in what unit, but I PVRed after 5 years 205 days, and one thing I learned in that time was that the paras were animals that smashed up everywhere they went on the slightest pretext.
Stop defending the indefensible by claiming that 50 years of official cover-ups and conspiracies to pervert justice somehow exonerates the perpetrators of the original act of mass murder."
Big chip on shoulder here! "Serving the British state" gives away your true, Republican allegiance, does it not? If you were indeed in our force, which I'd seriously doubt, I'd love to know which outfit was supposed to have come out with the garbage in your first paragraph. None that I'd recognise!
Some of us didn't PVR but stuck it out, 17 years in my case. I never met any 'animals' despite being parachute trained alongside members of the Parachute Regiment - fine men one and all.
As you should know, every member of the security forces was issued with a "Green Card" stating when it was acceptable to open fire and when it wasn't. Breach of this was a court-martial offence. (Incidentally, you would and should have ONLY opened fire to kill, not to wound as some uninformed people think our troops should have done). Ammunition was strictly controlled and the other claims in your reply are simply laughable. But clearly recognisable as Republican-type propaganda.
Soldier F has been investigated time and time again by the Forces and enquiries before being thrown too the IRA wolves as a sop to "the Good Friday agreement" which was, as many believe, Blair's total surrender to the IRA. No wonder people hate politicians!
|
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"My apologies I mixed him up with Dennis Hutchings.
Former soldier Dennis Hutchings' appeal to the Supreme Court against a decision to try him in a Diplock Court has been dismissed.
It was unanimously dismissed in the Supreme Court in London on Thursday (6 June 2019).
Mr Hutchings is due to be tried for attempted murder in connection with a fatal shooting in Northern Ireland in 1974.
I thought you might have.
Even then it doesnt tell the full story of "diplock courts", in the North of Ireland ,
Any British Sodier in a diplock court will not have suffered torture during interogation,
He will not have his defence evidence dismissed by a biased judge , to rid the streets of
people defending there community during a conflict/war .
( catholic or protestant).
He will be given the best defence money can buy , he will be treated with respect & dignity that a british court should offer to all , but didnt.
Idont think it was your point so apologies for adding this in.
If every prisoner in the north after a diplock court was introduced had the ability to have the cases challenged , 95% would have been thrown out as unsafe convictiins in any normal time.
"
If I remember rightly in the Republic they have the Special Criminal Court but it has 3 judges that sit in lieu of the jury. Perhaps we should have learned from them. |
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"Big chip on shoulder here! "Serving the British state" gives away your true, Republican allegiance, does it not? If you were indeed in our force, which I'd seriously doubt, I'd love to know which outfit was supposed to have come out with the garbage in your first paragraph. None that I'd recognise!"
PMSL...
Clearly you still have to face up to a lot. Funnily enough my family are Irish Catholic (I even went to school there), but I turned my back on them, swore my oath of allegiance meaning every word, no crossed fingers or any other shit, because I believed it was my duty to repay my debt to Britain for accepting me as one of theirs, something the Irish boys I went to school with never did and which I have never forgotten.
"Some of us didn't PVR but stuck it out, 17 years in my case. I never met any 'animals' despite being parachute trained alongside members of the Parachute Regiment - fine men one and all. "
Woopy fuck! You jumped out of a plane, sports jump was it? I went through P Company to get my wings (it along with becoming an Army Ski Iinstructor) was a 'trade' requirement. As for your fine men one and all, do me a favour and smell what you are shoveling!
"As you should know, every member of the security forces was issued with a "Green Card" stating when it was acceptable to open fire and when it wasn't. Breach of this was a court-martial offence."
I never got a green card while in the forces, they are what you get when you get a US work permit. However I did get a Yellow Card and it made quite clear that shooting unarmed civilians was murder! It even made clear that if a gunman was not an immediate threat (say they had shot someone and was running away) I couldn't fire. Now remind me of exactly what soldier F is accused of doing...
"(Incidentally, you would and should have ONLY opened fire to kill, not to wound as some uninformed people think our troops should have done). Ammunition was strictly controlled and the other claims in your reply are simply laughable."
Really, may I ask what was your personal weapon? I had a number to choose from depending on the job, but I mostly carried an L42A1 with Browning 9mm as a close quarters personal protection weapon (as did most of my unit).
"Soldier F has been investigated time and time again by the Forces and enquiries before being thrown too the IRA wolves as a sop to "the Good Friday agreement" which was, as many believe, Blair's total surrender to the IRA. No wonder people hate politicians!
"
Funny how the army failed to find any evidence that any member of the army or Parachute Rgt did anything wrong when they were filmed running amok in the Bogside killing unarmed civilians. As for your comment about people hating politicians, maybe you could hazard a guess as to how the civilian population of garrison towns feel about soldiers? Maybe I can help jog your memory. How many times have you heard of garrisons being confined to camp and quarters because of their conduct? But I guess that's something that never happens to the fine men of the Parachute Rgt or any unit you have experience of. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
No matter how long the passage of time, it should always be OK for the families of innocent people to have their day in Court.
I was never involved with the Paras other than IS training which resulted in a premature end to my career due to a brain injury.
The Army generally was (still is?) a law unto itself and anyone who served in a high tension environment can maybe understand how a group of highly strung and aggressive guys might lose it.
My time was early 80’s and despite everything I have good memories of my trusted SLR, shitty DMS boots and puttees lol.
Losing your shit and shooting civilians (which is exactly what happened) can never be right, no matter how tense and how recently emotional the situation might have been. |
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"No matter how long the passage of time, it should always be OK for the families of innocent people to have their day in Court.
I was never involved with the Paras other than IS training which resulted in a premature end to my career due to a brain injury.
The Army generally was (still is?) a law unto itself and anyone who served in a high tension environment can maybe understand how a group of highly strung and aggressive guys might lose it.
My time was early 80’s and despite everything I have good memories of my trusted SLR, shitty DMS boots and puttees lol.
Losing your shit and shooting civilians (which is exactly what happened) can never be right, no matter how tense and how recently emotional the situation might have been."
No mention of 'shirt KF'??? LoL |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"No matter how long the passage of time, it should always be OK for the families of innocent people to have their day in Court.
I was never involved with the Paras other than IS training which resulted in a premature end to my career due to a brain injury.
The Army generally was (still is?) a law unto itself and anyone who served in a high tension environment can maybe understand how a group of highly strung and aggressive guys might lose it.
My time was early 80’s and despite everything I have good memories of my trusted SLR, shitty DMS boots and puttees lol.
Losing your shit and shooting civilians (which is exactly what happened) can never be right, no matter how tense and how recently emotional the situation might have been.
No mention of 'shirt KF'??? LoL"
Starch destroyed my love |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"My apologies I mixed him up with Dennis Hutchings.
Former soldier Dennis Hutchings' appeal to the Supreme Court against a decision to try him in a Diplock Court has been dismissed.
It was unanimously dismissed in the Supreme Court in London on Thursday (6 June 2019).
Mr Hutchings is due to be tried for attempted murder in connection with a fatal shooting in Northern Ireland in 1974.
I thought you might have.
Even then it doesnt tell the full story of "diplock courts", in the North of Ireland ,
Any British Sodier in a diplock court will not have suffered torture during interogation,
He will not have his defence evidence dismissed by a biased judge , to rid the streets of
people defending there community during a conflict/war .
( catholic or protestant).
He will be given the best defence money can buy , he will be treated with respect & dignity that a british court should offer to all , but didnt.
Idont think it was your point so apologies for adding this in.
If every prisoner in the north after a diplock court was introduced had the ability to have the cases challenged , 95% would have been thrown out as unsafe convictiins in any normal time.
If I remember rightly in the Republic they have the Special Criminal Court but it has 3 judges that sit in lieu of the jury. Perhaps we should have learned from them. "
3 judges in a diplock court in the north, but always 1 senior higher ranking judge .
Remember the Republic wasnt run by the Empires Might.
Anyway as a personal note
Id be happy for him to be found guilty then get released, but then i am not 1 of the relatives of the dead.
|
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"My apologies I mixed him up with Dennis Hutchings.
Former soldier Dennis Hutchings' appeal to the Supreme Court against a decision to try him in a Diplock Court has been dismissed.
It was unanimously dismissed in the Supreme Court in London on Thursday (6 June 2019).
Mr Hutchings is due to be tried for attempted murder in connection with a fatal shooting in Northern Ireland in 1974.
I thought you might have.
Even then it doesnt tell the full story of "diplock courts", in the North of Ireland ,
Any British Sodier in a diplock court will not have suffered torture during interogation,
He will not have his defence evidence dismissed by a biased judge , to rid the streets of
people defending there community during a conflict/war .
( catholic or protestant).
He will be given the best defence money can buy , he will be treated with respect & dignity that a british court should offer to all , but didnt.
Idont think it was your point so apologies for adding this in.
If every prisoner in the north after a diplock court was introduced had the ability to have the cases challenged , 95% would have been thrown out as unsafe convictiins in any normal time.
If I remember rightly in the Republic they have the Special Criminal Court but it has 3 judges that sit in lieu of the jury. Perhaps we should have learned from them.
3 judges in a diplock court in the north, but always 1 senior higher ranking judge .
Remember the Republic wasnt run by the Empires Might.
Anyway as a personal note
Id be happy for him to be found guilty then get released, but then i am not 1 of the relatives of the dead.
"
The Republic was run by the Empires might until 1921. The Special Criminal Court is not without its critics. As I said perhaps we should have copied it.
Like you said justice has to run its course. Let justice prevail or the heavens fall. |
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Yes. It is right. He's suspected of murder. He'll get a fair trial and he'll only be found guilty if the evidence against him is proven beyond reasonable doubt.
The armed forces serve the country by putting their lives at risk to uphold the values of the country - which include the rule of law and the right to a fair trial.
If our troops are not held to the highest of standards, we cannot claim moral superiority over the enemies they are deployed against. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Indeed.
The idea that British soldiers can murder British citizens on British streets and somehow be beyond the reach of the law is a pretty shocking view for any British citizen to articulate. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Indeed.
The idea that British soldiers can murder British citizens on British streets and somehow be beyond the reach of the law is a pretty shocking view for any British citizen to articulate."
.
We still agree, huzzah |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Indeed.
The idea that British soldiers can murder British citizens on British streets and somehow be beyond the reach of the law is a pretty shocking view for any British citizen to articulate..
We still agree, huzzah "
.
However just remember your words when they turn the army on brexiters after the libtards overturn the biggest democratic vote in British history.
Alas I suspect you'll say there all white supremacists and need interning in a gulag .
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes. It is right. He's suspected of murder. He'll get a fair trial and he'll only be found guilty if the evidence against him is proven beyond reasonable doubt.
The armed forces serve the country by putting their lives at risk to uphold the values of the country - which include the rule of law and the right to a fair trial.
If our troops are not held to the highest of standards, we cannot claim moral superiority over the enemies they are deployed against."
He'll get a fair trial , unlike all the people during internment & Through Diplock courts in Northern Ireland .
Most of which would have been lifted during those brave soldiers storming into houses pointing guns at unarmed children & wives whislt husbands were dragged out at gun point & handed over to the R.U.C .
Serving a country that espoused Terrorism yet claimed it was a victim of it. |
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By *uietbloke67Man
over a year ago
outside your bedroom window ;-) |
"You shoot someone its murder. Full stop.
Only if it's premeditated "
You need to watch Spotlight on the Irish troubles on Bbc1 for context. This was clearly pre-meditated by this companies actions earlier in the week atca civil rights march on a beach.
These troops where s lose cannon to paraphrase a senior general of the British army at the time.
They wanted to make their mark and shooting children running away with live rounds in clearly pre meditated.
Murder is murder, why defend a murderer?? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You shoot someone its murder. Full stop.
Only if it's premeditated
You need to watch Spotlight on the Irish troubles on Bbc1 for context. This was clearly pre-meditated by this companies actions earlier in the week atca civil rights march on a beach.
These troops where s lose cannon to paraphrase a senior general of the British army at the time.
They wanted to make their mark and shooting children running away with live rounds in clearly pre meditated.
Murder is murder, why defend a murderer??"
Why do people, including yourself have to automatically decide what stance others have when they simply point out their errors, including your errors.
I am not defending Murder at all, you stated if "you shoot someone it's murder. Fact" so I was pointing you in the right direction so you understand how murder is defined
  |
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" ... why defend a murderer??"
Because all UK citizens are entitled to a fair trial under the law.
He hasn't been convicted yet.
Nor will he be unless the evidence proves him, beyond reasonable doubt, to be a murderer.
Right now, he's accused; nothing more. |
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"Shirt KF !! shudders
How about soaped in creases and shiny arses in Trousers Barrack-room or were yours sewn in? LoL
OMG Trousers Barrack Dress lol
I never went as far as sewn in creases "
Puttees!!!!!!!! |
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" ... why defend a murderer??
Because all UK citizens are entitled to a fair trial under the law.
He hasn't been convicted yet.
Nor will he be unless the evidence proves him, beyond reasonable doubt, to be a murderer.
Right now, he's accused; nothing more."
yeah it might have been sodlier A, B, C, D, E, G, H, I, J, K, L, M that were the murderer, he might be innocent. |
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"Shirt KF !! shudders
How about soaped in creases and shiny arses in Trousers Barrack-room or were yours sewn in? LoL
OMG Trousers Barrack Dress lol
I never went as far as sewn in creases
Puttees!!!!!!!!"
Arghhh puttees  I was so glad when we finally got Boots Combat High lol |
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"Shirt KF !! shudders
How about soaped in creases and shiny arses in Trousers Barrack-room or were yours sewn in? LoL
OMG Trousers Barrack Dress lol
I never went as far as sewn in creases
Puttees!!!!!!!!"
The boon of lassy bands in lightweights and combat lags rather than using puttees to hold them in as soon as out of basic!
Talking of basic...
Change parades!
And mud runs!!
And beastings (get up those wall bars and hang in crucifix and pike!!!) |
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or View forums list | |
"Shirt KF !! shudders
How about soaped in creases and shiny arses in Trousers Barrack-room or were yours sewn in? LoL
OMG Trousers Barrack Dress lol
I never went as far as sewn in creases
Puttees!!!!!!!!
The boon of lassy bands in lightweights and combat lags rather than using puttees to hold them in as soon as out of basic!
Talking of basic...
Change parades!
And mud runs!!
And beastings (get up those wall bars and hang in crucifix and pike!!!)"
Lassy bands ????? Take urself straight to jail private |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Shirt KF !! shudders
How about soaped in creases and shiny arses in Trousers Barrack-room or were yours sewn in? LoL
OMG Trousers Barrack Dress lol
I never went as far as sewn in creases
Puttees!!!!!!!!
The boon of lassy bands in lightweights and combat lags rather than using puttees to hold them in as soon as out of basic!
Talking of basic...
Change parades!
And mud runs!!
And beastings (get up those wall bars and hang in crucifix and pike!!!)
Lassy bands ????? Take urself straight to jail private"
A trip I managed to avoid, but I wrote a lot of sect 69 252s LoL |
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