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Project fear
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"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x"
The millennium bug argument has been had before. This will explain:
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45083650
The experts spent many hours identifying bugs and fixing them.
With Brexit, the experts are being ignored as scaremongers.
The only way to avoid is to listen to them and revoke article 50. It's simple.
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There wasn't a project fear per se, it was a tactic used by some to escape from the responsibilities of having an intelligent plan and detailed appraisals of the major undertaking that they were engaged with.
We all assess risks when we engage with life, most of it subconscious, for the little things hundreds of times a day, to the more complex decisions that we take - jobs, investments etc. Rightly we expect leaders to do this for major policy decisions and for benefits and risks to be communicated clearly. Risks of potential problems can be understood and accepted or not as acceptable. Most people dislike others with responsibility being in denial or being dishonest. The public deserve truthful representation of known facts and predicted consequences. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"There wasn't a project fear per se, it was a tactic used by some to escape from the responsibilities of having an intelligent plan and detailed appraisals of the major undertaking that they were engaged with.
We all assess risks when we engage with life, most of it subconscious, for the little things hundreds of times a day, to the more complex decisions that we take - jobs, investments etc. Rightly we expect leaders to do this for major policy decisions and for benefits and risks to be communicated clearly. Risks of potential problems can be understood and accepted or not as acceptable. Most people dislike others with responsibility being in denial or being dishonest. The public deserve truthful representation of known facts and predicted consequences. "
We have no known facts about Brexit that is a fact |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There wasn't a project fear per se, it was a tactic used by some to escape from the responsibilities of having an intelligent plan and detailed appraisals of the major undertaking that they were engaged with.
We all assess risks when we engage with life, most of it subconscious, for the little things hundreds of times a day, to the more complex decisions that we take - jobs, investments etc. Rightly we expect leaders to do this for major policy decisions and for benefits and risks to be communicated clearly. Risks of potential problems can be understood and accepted or not as acceptable. Most people dislike others with responsibility being in denial or being dishonest. The public deserve truthful representation of known facts and predicted consequences. We have no known facts about Brexit that is a fact"
The fact is that there is a huge mess in politics, economy and society is divided. Plus brexit is very expensive for the country and normal people and these are hard facts so how can we say that we know nothing about brexit. |
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"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x"
What don’t you believe?
The just isn’t complicated - the EU is a much larger trading entity than the U.K. on its own is, so has more clout.
Think about it. As an example, suppose I am a farmer who sells burgers. Which of the following will want to buy more burgers from me?
a. Joe’s Burgers
b. McDonalds
Which do you think I will charge less per burger?
a. small company only buying a few burgers
b. McDonalds
Or if we crash our without a deal and revert to WTO tariffs. A lot of U.K. companies that export to Europe freely just now will find they are u able to continue to do so because it’s too expensive. So the will have to lay people off, or even go out of business.
That is not fantasy concocted by anyone - it’s likely to be the harsh reality of a no deal exit. |
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"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
What don’t you believe?
The just isn’t complicated - the EU is a much larger trading entity than the U.K. on its own is, so has more clout.
Think about it. As an example, suppose I am a farmer who sells burgers. Which of the following will want to buy more burgers from me?
a. Joe’s Burgers
b. McDonalds
Which do you think I will charge less per burger?
a. small company only buying a few burgers
b. McDonalds
Or if we crash our without a deal and revert to WTO tariffs. A lot of U.K. companies that export to Europe freely just now will find they are u able to continue to do so because it’s too expensive. So the will have to lay people off, or even go out of business.
That is not fantasy concocted by anyone - it’s likely to be the harsh reality of a no deal exit."
I think the farmer would only be providing the beef and not actually producing finished burgers. I’m sure joes or McDonald’s already have a processing plant that turns the beef into burgers ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yeah bring it on....get rid of all that high quality Irish beef and lets get back to the good old days of BSE or better still that fabulous yankee hormone drenched stuff....thats got to be great hasnt it because most Americans are huge and theirs got to be a link!
On a less satirical note, the burgers analogy wasnt great as an illustration of concept but I don’t think it needed shooting down as the thought behind it does make sense. |
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"Yeah bring it on....get rid of all that high quality Irish beef and lets get back to the good old days of BSE or better still that fabulous yankee hormone drenched stuff....thats got to be great hasnt it because most Americans are huge and theirs got to be a link!
On a less satirical note, the burgers analogy wasnt great as an illustration of concept but I don’t think it needed shooting down as the thought behind it does make sense."
This |
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"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x"
In my opinion, therefore you have no idea of the scale of the changes that the UK will need to undertake in a tiny time frame, and UK government form on organisation is historically very poor
The simple task of duplicating every regulatory organisation that we currently share the cost with will cause chaos for years and fire administration costs skyward
I wonder if many understand that much non EU imports are checked and administered at Rotterdam then carried hassle free to the UK
The infrastructure required to replicate this currently well established and efficient mechanisms will again take years if not decades for the UK replicate and build
All sides predict , unpredictable disruption
The predictable humans of the UK always respond the same to uncertainty and that's as a collective they reduce their spending
Needless jobs will be lost fact |
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There were predictions of doom and gloom if we voted out, even George Osbourne, the then Chancellor of the Exchequer, said immediately after an "out" vote the economy would crash, house prices would plummet, the pound would fall off a cliff etc etc, none of which happened. In fact, the UK economy is doing better than the EU on the whole.
No-one gains if our economy goes down the toilet, certainly not us, and most definitely not Germany, France etc, so things will not be anywhere even close to the worst predictions, and to be honest, personally although I think there will be some wrinkles, on the whole I think that there will be no real issues when we leave. |
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"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
What don’t you believe?
The just isn’t complicated - the EU is a much larger trading entity than the U.K. on its own is, so has more clout.
Think about it. As an example, suppose I am a farmer who sells burgers. Which of the following will want to buy more burgers from me?
a. Joe’s Burgers
b. McDonalds
Which do you think I will charge less per burger?
a. small company only buying a few burgers
b. McDonalds
Or if we crash our without a deal and revert to WTO tariffs. A lot of U.K. companies that export to Europe freely just now will find they are u able to continue to do so because it’s too expensive. So the will have to lay people off, or even go out of business.
That is not fantasy concocted by anyone - it’s likely to be the harsh reality of a no deal exit.
I think the farmer would only be providing the beef and not actually producing finished burgers. I’m sure joes or McDonald’s already have a processing plant that turns the beef into burgers ?"
For sake of the argument I just said ‘burgers’ rather than ‘meat to make the burgers’.
The point remains the same. Although actually, the point was that Joe’s place is a small independent place, so actually wouldn’t have its own processing plant.
Joe already has to pay more than McDonalds because he needs actual burgers, rather than just the meat.
You get the point though - the bigger the entity, the more you can buy, and so take advantage of economies of scale. |
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"Yeah bring it on....get rid of all that high quality Irish beef and lets get back to the good old days of BSE or better still that fabulous yankee hormone drenched stuff....thats got to be great hasnt it because most Americans are huge and theirs got to be a link!
On a less satirical note, the burgers analogy wasnt great as an illustration of concept but I don’t think it needed shooting down as the thought behind it does make sense."
Well, it was a quick analogy to illustrate the economies of scale that a larger trading entity can take advantage of. |
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"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
In my opinion, therefore you have no idea of the scale of the changes that the UK will need to undertake in a tiny time frame, and UK government form on organisation is historically very poor
The simple task of duplicating every regulatory organisation that we currently share the cost with will cause chaos for years and fire administration costs skyward
I wonder if many understand that much non EU imports are checked and administered at Rotterdam then carried hassle free to the UK
The infrastructure required to replicate this currently well established and efficient mechanisms will again take years if not decades for the UK replicate and build
All sides predict , unpredictable disruption
The predictable humans of the UK always respond the same to uncertainty and that's as a collective they reduce their spending
Needless jobs will be lost fact"
The Rotterdam Effect, but I wouldn’t say that it accounts for all of the non-Eu imports to the uk otherwise the trade figures for Netherlands would be hugely different to what they are.
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"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
What don’t you believe?
The just isn’t complicated - the EU is a much larger trading entity than the U.K. on its own is, so has more clout.
Think about it. As an example, suppose I am a farmer who sells burgers. Which of the following will want to buy more burgers from me?
a. Joe’s Burgers
b. McDonalds
Which do you think I will charge less per burger?
a. small company only buying a few burgers
b. McDonalds
Or if we crash our without a deal and revert to WTO tariffs. A lot of U.K. companies that export to Europe freely just now will find they are u able to continue to do so because it’s too expensive. So the will have to lay people off, or even go out of business.
That is not fantasy concocted by anyone - it’s likely to be the harsh reality of a no deal exit.
I think the farmer would only be providing the beef and not actually producing finished burgers. I’m sure joes or McDonald’s already have a processing plant that turns the beef into burgers ?
For sake of the argument I just said ‘burgers’ rather than ‘meat to make the burgers’.
The point remains the same. Although actually, the point was that Joe’s place is a small independent place, so actually wouldn’t have its own processing plant.
Joe already has to pay more than McDonalds because he needs actual burgers, rather than just the meat.
You get the point though - the bigger the entity, the more you can buy, and so take advantage of economies of scale."
Regardless of brexit, the example really only highlights normal business practice - of course you charge less for the customer buying volume than the smaller customer buying only a small quantity.
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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago
Huddersfield /derby cinemas |
"Project fear" was what leavers said the remoaners view of Brexit was ,,,, Then the leavers took full control of their party and our government and produced their own report probably in the hope to show that "project fear" was in fact simply project fear ,,, The leavers report is the Yellowhammer Report ,,,,, So I respectfully suggest that rather than sneering at the remoaners project fear predictions , the leavers should read and study their own Yellowhammer Report |
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"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
What don’t you believe?
The just isn’t complicated - the EU is a much larger trading entity than the U.K. on its own is, so has more clout.
Think about it. As an example, suppose I am a farmer who sells burgers. Which of the following will want to buy more burgers from me?
a. Joe’s Burgers
b. McDonalds
Which do you think I will charge less per burger?
a. small company only buying a few burgers
b. McDonalds
Or if we crash our without a deal and revert to WTO tariffs. A lot of U.K. companies that export to Europe freely just now will find they are u able to continue to do so because it’s too expensive. So the will have to lay people off, or even go out of business.
That is not fantasy concocted by anyone - it’s likely to be the harsh reality of a no deal exit.
I think the farmer would only be providing the beef and not actually producing finished burgers. I’m sure joes or McDonald’s already have a processing plant that turns the beef into burgers ?
For sake of the argument I just said ‘burgers’ rather than ‘meat to make the burgers’.
The point remains the same. Although actually, the point was that Joe’s place is a small independent place, so actually wouldn’t have its own processing plant.
Joe already has to pay more than McDonalds because he needs actual burgers, rather than just the meat.
You get the point though - the bigger the entity, the more you can buy, and so take advantage of economies of scale.
Regardless of brexit, the example really only highlights normal business practice - of course you charge less for the customer buying volume than the smaller customer buying only a small quantity.
"
So which customer is going to want to buy in larger volumes? The EU or the U.K.? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
What don’t you believe?
The just isn’t complicated - the EU is a much larger trading entity than the U.K. on its own is, so has more clout.
Think about it. As an example, suppose I am a farmer who sells burgers. Which of the following will want to buy more burgers from me?
a. Joe’s Burgers
b. McDonalds
Which do you think I will charge less per burger?
a. small company only buying a few burgers
b. McDonalds
Or if we crash our without a deal and revert to WTO tariffs. A lot of U.K. companies that export to Europe freely just now will find they are u able to continue to do so because it’s too expensive. So the will have to lay people off, or even go out of business.
That is not fantasy concocted by anyone - it’s likely to be the harsh reality of a no deal exit.
I think the farmer would only be providing the beef and not actually producing finished burgers. I’m sure joes or McDonald’s already have a processing plant that turns the beef into burgers ?
For sake of the argument I just said ‘burgers’ rather than ‘meat to make the burgers’.
The point remains the same. Although actually, the point was that Joe’s place is a small independent place, so actually wouldn’t have its own processing plant.
Joe already has to pay more than McDonalds because he needs actual burgers, rather than just the meat.
You get the point though - the bigger the entity, the more you can buy, and so take advantage of economies of scale."
Compare prices that you pay for fuel at a supermarket petrol station compared to a motorway service station
That's what will happen to the price of most items in a no deal Brexit for the UK. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
""Project fear" was what leavers said the remoaners view of Brexit was ,,,, Then the leavers took full control of their party and our government and produced their own report probably in the hope to show that "project fear" was in fact simply project fear ,,, The leavers report is the Yellowhammer Report ,,,,, So I respectfully suggest that rather than sneering at the remoaners project fear predictions , the leavers should read and study their own Yellowhammer Report "
I know, it's the epitome of fucking blind stupidity. |
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"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
In my opinion, therefore you have no idea of the scale of the changes that the UK will need to undertake in a tiny time frame, and UK government form on organisation is historically very poor
The simple task of duplicating every regulatory organisation that we currently share the cost with will cause chaos for years and fire administration costs skyward
I wonder if many understand that much non EU imports are checked and administered at Rotterdam then carried hassle free to the UK
The infrastructure required to replicate this currently well established and efficient mechanisms will again take years if not decades for the UK replicate and build
All sides predict , unpredictable disruption
The predictable humans of the UK always respond the same to uncertainty and that's as a collective they reduce their spending
Needless jobs will be lost fact
The Rotterdam Effect, but I wouldn’t say that it accounts for all of the non-Eu imports to the uk otherwise the trade figures for Netherlands would be hugely different to what they are.
"
To my knowledge goods passing through ports are not considered turnover |
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"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
In my opinion, therefore you have no idea of the scale of the changes that the UK will need to undertake in a tiny time frame, and UK government form on organisation is historically very poor
The simple task of duplicating every regulatory organisation that we currently share the cost with will cause chaos for years and fire administration costs skyward
I wonder if many understand that much non EU imports are checked and administered at Rotterdam then carried hassle free to the UK
The infrastructure required to replicate this currently well established and efficient mechanisms will again take years if not decades for the UK replicate and build
All sides predict , unpredictable disruption
The predictable humans of the UK always respond the same to uncertainty and that's as a collective they reduce their spending
Needless jobs will be lost fact
The Rotterdam Effect, but I wouldn’t say that it accounts for all of the non-Eu imports to the uk otherwise the trade figures for Netherlands would be hugely different to what they are.
To my knowledge goods passing through ports are not considered turnover "
They are |
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"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
What don’t you believe?
The just isn’t complicated - the EU is a much larger trading entity than the U.K. on its own is, so has more clout.
Think about it. As an example, suppose I am a farmer who sells burgers. Which of the following will want to buy more burgers from me?
a. Joe’s Burgers
b. McDonalds
Which do you think I will charge less per burger?
a. small company only buying a few burgers
b. McDonalds
Or if we crash our without a deal and revert to WTO tariffs. A lot of U.K. companies that export to Europe freely just now will find they are u able to continue to do so because it’s too expensive. So the will have to lay people off, or even go out of business.
That is not fantasy concocted by anyone - it’s likely to be the harsh reality of a no deal exit.
I think the farmer would only be providing the beef and not actually producing finished burgers. I’m sure joes or McDonald’s already have a processing plant that turns the beef into burgers ?
For sake of the argument I just said ‘burgers’ rather than ‘meat to make the burgers’.
The point remains the same. Although actually, the point was that Joe’s place is a small independent place, so actually wouldn’t have its own processing plant.
Joe already has to pay more than McDonalds because he needs actual burgers, rather than just the meat.
You get the point though - the bigger the entity, the more you can buy, and so take advantage of economies of scale.
Compare prices that you pay for fuel at a supermarket petrol station compared to a motorway service station
That's what will happen to the price of most items in a no deal Brexit for the UK."
Motorway service area fuel prices are always higher - nothing to do with the wholesale price.
It’s supply and demand - they know they have a captive customer on the motorway so they hike their prices much higher |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
What don’t you believe?
The just isn’t complicated - the EU is a much larger trading entity than the U.K. on its own is, so has more clout.
Think about it. As an example, suppose I am a farmer who sells burgers. Which of the following will want to buy more burgers from me?
a. Joe’s Burgers
b. McDonalds
Which do you think I will charge less per burger?
a. small company only buying a few burgers
b. McDonalds
Or if we crash our without a deal and revert to WTO tariffs. A lot of U.K. companies that export to Europe freely just now will find they are u able to continue to do so because it’s too expensive. So the will have to lay people off, or even go out of business.
That is not fantasy concocted by anyone - it’s likely to be the harsh reality of a no deal exit.
I think the farmer would only be providing the beef and not actually producing finished burgers. I’m sure joes or McDonald’s already have a processing plant that turns the beef into burgers ?
For sake of the argument I just said ‘burgers’ rather than ‘meat to make the burgers’.
The point remains the same. Although actually, the point was that Joe’s place is a small independent place, so actually wouldn’t have its own processing plant.
Joe already has to pay more than McDonalds because he needs actual burgers, rather than just the meat.
You get the point though - the bigger the entity, the more you can buy, and so take advantage of economies of scale.
Compare prices that you pay for fuel at a supermarket petrol station compared to a motorway service station
That's what will happen to the price of most items in a no deal Brexit for the UK.
Motorway service area fuel prices are always higher - nothing to do with the wholesale price.
It’s supply and demand - they know they have a captive customer on the motorway so they hike their prices much higher "
Are you acting this stupid or is it coming naturally to you mate
As stated by me and the previous guy, we're on about just the comparison of price, not the nuts and bolts and how's and whys, as you well know. |
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"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
What don’t you believe?
The just isn’t complicated - the EU is a much larger trading entity than the U.K. on its own is, so has more clout.
Think about it. As an example, suppose I am a farmer who sells burgers. Which of the following will want to buy more burgers from me?
a. Joe’s Burgers
b. McDonalds
Which do you think I will charge less per burger?
a. small company only buying a few burgers
b. McDonalds
Or if we crash our without a deal and revert to WTO tariffs. A lot of U.K. companies that export to Europe freely just now will find they are u able to continue to do so because it’s too expensive. So the will have to lay people off, or even go out of business.
That is not fantasy concocted by anyone - it’s likely to be the harsh reality of a no deal exit.
I think the farmer would only be providing the beef and not actually producing finished burgers. I’m sure joes or McDonald’s already have a processing plant that turns the beef into burgers ?
For sake of the argument I just said ‘burgers’ rather than ‘meat to make the burgers’.
The point remains the same. Although actually, the point was that Joe’s place is a small independent place, so actually wouldn’t have its own processing plant.
Joe already has to pay more than McDonalds because he needs actual burgers, rather than just the meat.
You get the point though - the bigger the entity, the more you can buy, and so take advantage of economies of scale.
Compare prices that you pay for fuel at a supermarket petrol station compared to a motorway service station
That's what will happen to the price of most items in a no deal Brexit for the UK.
Motorway service area fuel prices are always higher - nothing to do with the wholesale price.
It’s supply and demand - they know they have a captive customer on the motorway so they hike their prices much higher
Are you acting this stupid or is it coming naturally to you mate
As stated by me and the previous guy, we're on about just the comparison of price, not the nuts and bolts and how's and whys, as you well know. "
But it is about the nuts and bolts. The burger example and the fuel price examples are unhelpful if you are trying to illustrate why prices may go up |
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The millenium bug was real. People spent a few years planning for it and making sure it dodnt effect things.
The problem with no deal is that it is economically disastrous. There is literslly nothing to do to avoid that. Brexit should mean staying in the SM and CU. A hard brexit means no trade deal now and that means over the following months and years complete chaos. Yes in 20 yrs time we will prob be ok but thats after 2 more generstions ha e experienced what us millenials did after 2008. Namely economic ruin |
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""Project fear" was what leavers said the remoaners view of Brexit was ,,,, Then the leavers took full control of their party and our government and produced their own report probably in the hope to show that "project fear" was in fact simply project fear ,,, The leavers report is the Yellowhammer Report ,,,,, So I respectfully suggest that rather than sneering at the remoaners project fear predictions , the leavers should read and study their own Yellowhammer Report "
The bits quoted out of the Yellowhammer report are the "worst case scenario"...the government are putting in place contingency planning to mitigate the actual effects, which are likely to be far less brutal that the worst case scenario. |
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"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
What don’t you believe?
The just isn’t complicated - the EU is a much larger trading entity than the U.K. on its own is, so has more clout.
Think about it. As an example, suppose I am a farmer who sells burgers. Which of the following will want to buy more burgers from me?
a. Joe’s Burgers
b. McDonalds
Which do you think I will charge less per burger?
a. small company only buying a few burgers
b. McDonalds
Or if we crash our without a deal and revert to WTO tariffs. A lot of U.K. companies that export to Europe freely just now will find they are u able to continue to do so because it’s too expensive. So the will have to lay people off, or even go out of business.
That is not fantasy concocted by anyone - it’s likely to be the harsh reality of a no deal exit.
I think the farmer would only be providing the beef and not actually producing finished burgers. I’m sure joes or McDonald’s already have a processing plant that turns the beef into burgers ?
For sake of the argument I just said ‘burgers’ rather than ‘meat to make the burgers’.
The point remains the same. Although actually, the point was that Joe’s place is a small independent place, so actually wouldn’t have its own processing plant.
Joe already has to pay more than McDonalds because he needs actual burgers, rather than just the meat.
You get the point though - the bigger the entity, the more you can buy, and so take advantage of economies of scale.
Compare prices that you pay for fuel at a supermarket petrol station compared to a motorway service station
That's what will happen to the price of most items in a no deal Brexit for the UK.
Motorway service area fuel prices are always higher - nothing to do with the wholesale price.
It’s supply and demand - they know they have a captive customer on the motorway so they hike their prices much higher
Are you acting this stupid or is it coming naturally to you mate
As stated by me and the previous guy, we're on about just the comparison of price, not the nuts and bolts and how's and whys, as you well know.
But it is about the nuts and bolts. The burger example and the fuel price examples are unhelpful if you are trying to illustrate why prices may go up"
So are you disagreeing with the premise that he larger the trading entity, the greater the economies of scale will be? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
What don’t you believe?
The just isn’t complicated - the EU is a much larger trading entity than the U.K. on its own is, so has more clout.
Think about it. As an example, suppose I am a farmer who sells burgers. Which of the following will want to buy more burgers from me?
a. Joe’s Burgers
b. McDonalds
Which do you think I will charge less per burger?
a. small company only buying a few burgers
b. McDonalds
Or if we crash our without a deal and revert to WTO tariffs. A lot of U.K. companies that export to Europe freely just now will find they are u able to continue to do so because it’s too expensive. So the will have to lay people off, or even go out of business.
That is not fantasy concocted by anyone - it’s likely to be the harsh reality of a no deal exit.
I think the farmer would only be providing the beef and not actually producing finished burgers. I’m sure joes or McDonald’s already have a processing plant that turns the beef into burgers ?
For sake of the argument I just said ‘burgers’ rather than ‘meat to make the burgers’.
The point remains the same. Although actually, the point was that Joe’s place is a small independent place, so actually wouldn’t have its own processing plant.
Joe already has to pay more than McDonalds because he needs actual burgers, rather than just the meat.
You get the point though - the bigger the entity, the more you can buy, and so take advantage of economies of scale.
Compare prices that you pay for fuel at a supermarket petrol station compared to a motorway service station
That's what will happen to the price of most items in a no deal Brexit for the UK.
Motorway service area fuel prices are always higher - nothing to do with the wholesale price.
It’s supply and demand - they know they have a captive customer on the motorway so they hike their prices much higher
Are you acting this stupid or is it coming naturally to you mate
As stated by me and the previous guy, we're on about just the comparison of price, not the nuts and bolts and how's and whys, as you well know.
But it is about the nuts and bolts. The burger example and the fuel price examples are unhelpful if you are trying to illustrate why prices may go up"
I honestly didn't think that it had to be illustrated as to "why" prices would go up with a no deal Brexit unless we drop or reduce our standards, that's quite obvious really.
Lack of buying power, no FTA's
WTO tarrifs of over 45% added on
Then came the price difference example of supermarket fuel vs motorway services as an example of what the price differences may feel like. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The millenium bug was real. People spent a few years planning for it and making sure it dodnt effect things.
The problem with no deal is that it is economically disastrous. There is literslly nothing to do to avoid that. Brexit should mean staying in the SM and CU. A hard brexit means no trade deal now and that means over the following months and years complete chaos. Yes in 20 yrs time we will prob be ok but thats after 2 more generstions ha e experienced what us millenials did after 2008. Namely economic ruin"
I read a report a few years after 2000 that stated entire computer systems that didn't have any preventative measures applied before the millennium didn't suffer any higher % of problems than systems that did have measures applied. |
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"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
What don’t you believe?
The just isn’t complicated - the EU is a much larger trading entity than the U.K. on its own is, so has more clout.
Think about it. As an example, suppose I am a farmer who sells burgers. Which of the following will want to buy more burgers from me?
a. Joe’s Burgers
b. McDonalds
Which do you think I will charge less per burger?
a. small company only buying a few burgers
b. McDonalds
Or if we crash our without a deal and revert to WTO tariffs. A lot of U.K. companies that export to Europe freely just now will find they are u able to continue to do so because it’s too expensive. So the will have to lay people off, or even go out of business.
That is not fantasy concocted by anyone - it’s likely to be the harsh reality of a no deal exit.
I think the farmer would only be providing the beef and not actually producing finished burgers. I’m sure joes or McDonald’s already have a processing plant that turns the beef into burgers ?
For sake of the argument I just said ‘burgers’ rather than ‘meat to make the burgers’.
The point remains the same. Although actually, the point was that Joe’s place is a small independent place, so actually wouldn’t have its own processing plant.
Joe already has to pay more than McDonalds because he needs actual burgers, rather than just the meat.
You get the point though - the bigger the entity, the more you can buy, and so take advantage of economies of scale.
Compare prices that you pay for fuel at a supermarket petrol station compared to a motorway service station
That's what will happen to the price of most items in a no deal Brexit for the UK.
Motorway service area fuel prices are always higher - nothing to do with the wholesale price.
It’s supply and demand - they know they have a captive customer on the motorway so they hike their prices much higher
Are you acting this stupid or is it coming naturally to you mate
As stated by me and the previous guy, we're on about just the comparison of price, not the nuts and bolts and how's and whys, as you well know.
But it is about the nuts and bolts. The burger example and the fuel price examples are unhelpful if you are trying to illustrate why prices may go up
I honestly didn't think that it had to be illustrated as to "why" prices would go up with a no deal Brexit unless we drop or reduce our standards, that's quite obvious really.
Lack of buying power, no FTA's
WTO tarrifs of over 45% added on
Then came the price difference example of supermarket fuel vs motorway services as an example of what the price differences may feel like. "
The stuff we currently trade on wto doesn’t push prices up...
|
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"There wasn't a project fear per se, it was a tactic used by some to escape from the responsibilities of having an intelligent plan and detailed appraisals of the major undertaking that they were engaged with.
We all assess risks when we engage with life, most of it subconscious, for the little things hundreds of times a day, to the more complex decisions that we take - jobs, investments etc. Rightly we expect leaders to do this for major policy decisions and for benefits and risks to be communicated clearly. Risks of potential problems can be understood and accepted or not as acceptable. Most people dislike others with responsibility being in denial or being dishonest. The public deserve truthful representation of known facts and predicted consequences. We have no known facts about Brexit that is a fact"
Here's a fact. Those that voted for it are generally less educated and old.
Here's another fact. If the referendum had been legally binding it would have been cancelled.
Why don't we all calm our tits and check we're happy with pushing on? |
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"Here's a fact. Those that voted for it are generally less educated and old.
How do you know that?
Where’s the source of this fact?"
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted |
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"Here's a fact. Those that voted for it are generally less educated and old.
How do you know that?
Where’s the source of this fact?
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted"
What that says is that those with gcse or less - 70% of those voted to leave .
|
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Here's a fact. Those that voted for it are generally less educated and old.
How do you know that?
Where’s the source of this fact?
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted"
So you're saying that people should be allowed to vote only if they have achieved above a certain level of education? What level? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Lack of buying power, no FTA's
WTO tarrifs of over 45% added on
Then came the price difference example of supermarket fuel vs motorway services as an example of what the price differences may feel like.
The stuff we currently trade on wto doesn’t push prices up...
"
Ohh god this is hard work....
Obviously the stuff we currently trade with countries on WTO will not go up in price because we're already trading on WTO and paying the WTO tarrifs
It's everything else that we have FTA's with other countries that once we moved from Free Trade Agreements onto Tariffs on WTO that will increase in price.
 |
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"
Lack of buying power, no FTA's
WTO tarrifs of over 45% added on
Then came the price difference example of supermarket fuel vs motorway services as an example of what the price differences may feel like.
The stuff we currently trade on wto doesn’t push prices up...
Ohh god this is hard work....
Obviously the stuff we currently trade with countries on WTO will not go up in price because we're already trading on WTO and paying the WTO tarrifs
It's everything else that we have FTA's with other countries that once we moved from Free Trade Agreements onto Tariffs on WTO that will increase in price.
"
Unless the tarrifs are reduced |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Lack of buying power, no FTA's
WTO tarrifs of over 45% added on
Then came the price difference example of supermarket fuel vs motorway services as an example of what the price differences may feel like.
The stuff we currently trade on wto doesn’t push prices up...
Ohh god this is hard work....
Obviously the stuff we currently trade with countries on WTO will not go up in price because we're already trading on WTO and paying the WTO tarrifs
It's everything else that we have FTA's with other countries that once we moved from Free Trade Agreements onto Tariffs on WTO that will increase in price.
Unless the tarrifs are reduced "
So you're now admitting WTO tarrifs will increase prices unless we scrap tariffs and just be a free for all
At least we got there in the end
|
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"
Lack of buying power, no FTA's
WTO tarrifs of over 45% added on
Then came the price difference example of supermarket fuel vs motorway services as an example of what the price differences may feel like.
The stuff we currently trade on wto doesn’t push prices up...
Ohh god this is hard work....
Obviously the stuff we currently trade with countries on WTO will not go up in price because we're already trading on WTO and paying the WTO tarrifs
It's everything else that we have FTA's with other countries that once we moved from Free Trade Agreements onto Tariffs on WTO that will increase in price.
Unless the tarrifs are reduced
So you're now admitting WTO tarrifs will increase prices unless we scrap tariffs and just be a free for all
At least we got there in the end
"
I know wto would increase prices ...
what was all the stuff about beef and burgers about and the petrol prices at motorway services
|
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"Here's a fact. Those that voted for it are generally less educated and old.
How do you know that?
Where’s the source of this fact?
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted
So you're saying that people should be allowed to vote only if they have achieved above a certain level of education? What level?"
That’s not what was said at all.
I would however suggest that letting the population generally vote on something as massively important as leaving the EU, without really understanding the implications and consequences isn’t really a good idea. |
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"
Lack of buying power, no FTA's
WTO tarrifs of over 45% added on
Then came the price difference example of supermarket fuel vs motorway services as an example of what the price differences may feel like.
The stuff we currently trade on wto doesn’t push prices up...
Ohh god this is hard work....
Obviously the stuff we currently trade with countries on WTO will not go up in price because we're already trading on WTO and paying the WTO tarrifs
It's everything else that we have FTA's with other countries that once we moved from Free Trade Agreements onto Tariffs on WTO that will increase in price.
Unless the tarrifs are reduced
So you're now admitting WTO tarrifs will increase prices unless we scrap tariffs and just be a free for all
At least we got there in the end
I know wto would increase prices ...
what was all the stuff about beef and burgers about and the petrol prices at motorway services
"
The stuff about beef and burgers was to illustrate that the larger the trading entity, the greater the economies of scale would be. |
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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago
Huddersfield /derby cinemas |
""Project fear" was what leavers said the remoaners view of Brexit was ,,,, Then the leavers took full control of their party and our government and produced their own report probably in the hope to show that "project fear" was in fact simply project fear ,,, The leavers report is the Yellowhammer Report ,,,,, So I respectfully suggest that rather than sneering at the remoaners project fear predictions , the leavers should read and study their own Yellowhammer Report
The bits quoted out of the Yellowhammer report are the "worst case scenario"...the government are putting in place contingency planning to mitigate the actual effects, which are likely to be far less brutal that the worst case scenario."
. Unfortunately the suggestion put forward by our government that the yellowhammer report is the worse case scenario is probably not true ( or to put it another way - a lie !!!! ) . On the newspaper review on BBC was one of the 2 journalists who broke the story , she said she had seen the original document which had stated it was the base scenario and that the heading of the released documents had been altered |
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By *amantMan
over a year ago
Alnmouth |
""Project fear" was what leavers said the remoaners view of Brexit was ,,,, Then the leavers took full control of their party and our government and produced their own report probably in the hope to show that "project fear" was in fact simply project fear ,,, The leavers report is the Yellowhammer Report ,,,,, So I respectfully suggest that rather than sneering at the remoaners project fear predictions , the leavers should read and study their own Yellowhammer Report
The bits quoted out of the Yellowhammer report are the "worst case scenario"...the government are putting in place contingency planning to mitigate the actual effects, which are likely to be far less brutal that the worst case scenario.. Unfortunately the suggestion put forward by our government that the yellowhammer report is the worse case scenario is probably not true ( or to put it another way - a lie !!!! ) . On the newspaper review on BBC was one of the 2 journalists who broke the story , she said she had seen the original document which had stated it was the base scenario and that the heading of the released documents had been altered "
In addition to this, the original document from February was over 30 pages long. If no deal is going to be positive, why lie about it being 'worst case'? And why sit on a document like that? Why do pro-brexit politicians in the government sit on economic impact assessments? As for the mitigation of the negative aspects of leaving with no deal, you don't mitigate something that was supposed to positive do you?
Here's the title page from the original Yellowhammer document.
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1091613737923067905?s=19
The notion that leaving the EU without a deal is an economic improvement is simply untrue. Even in the longer term, who is to say the EU won't expand further and gain even more clout? Us voting to leave the EU was supposed to trigger a host of countries leaving. It hasn't. And not only that, support for the EU has gone up in every member state since that referendum. Add to that the chaos that would follow our depature, support for it would only increase.
The original Operation Yellowhammer document that we haven't seen, as well as the one we have is probably only the tip of the iceberg. While we've signed up to rollover agreements with a host of countries from South Korea to Norway, there are far more that we haven't including Canada.
As it turns out, you cannot have your cake and eat it.
|
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Here's a fact. Those that voted for it are generally less educated and old.
How do you know that?
Where’s the source of this fact?
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted
So you're saying that people should be allowed to vote only if they have achieved above a certain level of education? What level?
That’s not what was said at all.
I would however suggest that letting the population generally vote on something as massively important as leaving the EU, without really understanding the implications and consequences isn’t really a good idea. "
So are you saying that it's only the more educated people that would understand the implications and consequences then? In this case, remainers. Or are you saying that the population as a whole shouldn't be allowed to vote on something where they don't really understand the implications and consequences of the outcome of that vote? That it should only be parliament, who must surely be the educated elite, that are allowed to vote on such things?
You know, the parliament that overwhelmingly decided to give people the referendum, the parliament that overwhelmingly decided to invoke article 50, the parliament that overwhelmingly decided to leave the EU, and a growing number of which, who in their infinite wisdom and elite education levels, now want to put it back to the people in another referendum.... The people who you say should get nowhete near making a decision of such magnitude.
That parliament? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
""Project fear" was what leavers said the remoaners view of Brexit was ,,,, Then the leavers took full control of their party and our government and produced their own report probably in the hope to show that "project fear" was in fact simply project fear ,,, The leavers report is the Yellowhammer Report ,,,,, So I respectfully suggest that rather than sneering at the remoaners project fear predictions , the leavers should read and study their own Yellowhammer Report
The bits quoted out of the Yellowhammer report are the "worst case scenario"...the government are putting in place contingency planning to mitigate the actual effects, which are likely to be far less brutal that the worst case scenario.. Unfortunately the suggestion put forward by our government that the yellowhammer report is the worse case scenario is probably not true ( or to put it another way - a lie !!!! ) . On the newspaper review on BBC was one of the 2 journalists who broke the story , she said she had seen the original document which had stated it was the base scenario and that the heading of the released documents had been altered
In addition to this, the original document from February was over 30 pages long. If no deal is going to be positive, why lie about it being 'worst case'? And why sit on a document like that? Why do pro-brexit politicians in the government sit on economic impact assessments? As for the mitigation of the negative aspects of leaving with no deal, you don't mitigate something that was supposed to positive do you?
Here's the title page from the original Yellowhammer document.
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1091613737923067905?s=19
The notion that leaving the EU without a deal is an economic improvement is simply untrue. Even in the longer term, who is to say the EU won't expand further and gain even more clout? Us voting to leave the EU was supposed to trigger a host of countries leaving. It hasn't. And not only that, support for the EU has gone up in every member state since that referendum. Add to that the chaos that would follow our depature, support for it would only increase.
The original Operation Yellowhammer document that we haven't seen, as well as the one we have is probably only the tip of the iceberg. While we've signed up to rollover agreements with a host of countries from South Korea to Norway, there are far more that we haven't including Canada.
As it turns out, you cannot have your cake and eat it.
"
Indeed, if Brexit is supposed to be so good then why hasn't the positive impact assessments been leaked or released that shows how wealthy and jubilant we'll all become |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
What don’t you believe?
The just isn’t complicated - the EU is a much larger trading entity than the U.K. on its own is, so has more clout.
Think about it. As an example, suppose I am a farmer who sells burgers. Which of the following will want to buy more burgers from me?
a. Joe’s Burgers
b. McDonalds
Which do you think I will charge less per burger?
a. small company only buying a few burgers
b. McDonalds
Or if we crash our without a deal and revert to WTO tariffs. A lot of U.K. companies that export to Europe freely just now will find they are u able to continue to do so because it’s too expensive. So the will have to lay people off, or even go out of business.
That is not fantasy concocted by anyone - it’s likely to be the harsh reality of a no deal exit."
id rather have a Joe's burger... Less bulls*it produced. |
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"Here's a fact. Those that voted for it are generally less educated and old.
How do you know that?
Where’s the source of this fact?
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted
So you're saying that people should be allowed to vote only if they have achieved above a certain level of education? What level?
That’s not what was said at all.
I would however suggest that letting the population generally vote on something as massively important as leaving the EU, without really understanding the implications and consequences isn’t really a good idea.
So are you saying that it's only the more educated people that would understand the implications and consequences then? In this case, remainers. Or are you saying that the population as a whole shouldn't be allowed to vote on something where they don't really understand the implications and consequences of the outcome of that vote? That it should only be parliament, who must surely be the educated elite, that are allowed to vote on such things?
You know, the parliament that overwhelmingly decided to give people the referendum, the parliament that overwhelmingly decided to invoke article 50, the parliament that overwhelmingly decided to leave the EU, and a growing number of which, who in their infinite wisdom and elite education levels, now want to put it back to the people in another referendum.... The people who you say should get nowhete near making a decision of such magnitude.
That parliament?"
You are trying to put words in my mouth about this whole educated thing.
I’m saying that the population generally, as a whole, didn’t really know enough about it. A problem made worse when we were lied to about it, mainly be the leave side.
Given that the consequences are more than likely going to be negative, and was the view of pretty much every independent economic expert, that seems like a completely reasonable view to take.
Are you disagreeing that the likely outcome is likely to be negative? |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
What don’t you believe?
The just isn’t complicated - the EU is a much larger trading entity than the U.K. on its own is, so has more clout.
Think about it. As an example, suppose I am a farmer who sells burgers. Which of the following will want to buy more burgers from me?
a. Joe’s Burgers
b. McDonalds
Which do you think I will charge less per burger?
a. small company only buying a few burgers
b. McDonalds
Or if we crash our without a deal and revert to WTO tariffs. A lot of U.K. companies that export to Europe freely just now will find they are u able to continue to do so because it’s too expensive. So the will have to lay people off, or even go out of business.
That is not fantasy concocted by anyone - it’s likely to be the harsh reality of a no deal exit."
Or who would you rather sell burgers to, MacDonalds or 10 different smaller burger companies?
You'd get a higher price with the smaller companies, and if one of them moved elsewhere, it won't destroy your business. Lot's of companies have gone bust because they've relied too much on one customer. |
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By *amantMan
over a year ago
Alnmouth |
"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
What don’t you believe?
The just isn’t complicated - the EU is a much larger trading entity than the U.K. on its own is, so has more clout.
Think about it. As an example, suppose I am a farmer who sells burgers. Which of the following will want to buy more burgers from me?
a. Joe’s Burgers
b. McDonalds
Which do you think I will charge less per burger?
a. small company only buying a few burgers
b. McDonalds
Or if we crash our without a deal and revert to WTO tariffs. A lot of U.K. companies that export to Europe freely just now will find they are u able to continue to do so because it’s too expensive. So the will have to lay people off, or even go out of business.
That is not fantasy concocted by anyone - it’s likely to be the harsh reality of a no deal exit.
Or who would you rather sell burgers to, MacDonalds or 10 different smaller burger companies?
You'd get a higher price with the smaller companies, and if one of them moved elsewhere, it won't destroy your business. Lot's of companies have gone bust because they've relied too much on one customer."
Using this analogy, Britain is not just walking away from a collection of our biggest customers but also several others who made arrangements with the collective. As can be shown by Canada refusing to sign up to a rollover arrangement with us like Norway has. |
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"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
What don’t you believe?
The just isn’t complicated - the EU is a much larger trading entity than the U.K. on its own is, so has more clout.
Think about it. As an example, suppose I am a farmer who sells burgers. Which of the following will want to buy more burgers from me?
a. Joe’s Burgers
b. McDonalds
Which do you think I will charge less per burger?
a. small company only buying a few burgers
b. McDonalds
Or if we crash our without a deal and revert to WTO tariffs. A lot of U.K. companies that export to Europe freely just now will find they are u able to continue to do so because it’s too expensive. So the will have to lay people off, or even go out of business.
That is not fantasy concocted by anyone - it’s likely to be the harsh reality of a no deal exit.
Or who would you rather sell burgers to, MacDonalds or 10 different smaller burger companies?
You'd get a higher price with the smaller companies, and if one of them moved elsewhere, it won't destroy your business. Lot's of companies have gone bust because they've relied too much on one customer."
Which if the following entities is in a stronger position to negotiate a more favourable deal with, for example, the US or China?
The U.K.?
The EU? |
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"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
What don’t you believe?
The just isn’t complicated - the EU is a much larger trading entity than the U.K. on its own is, so has more clout.
Think about it. As an example, suppose I am a farmer who sells burgers. Which of the following will want to buy more burgers from me?
a. Joe’s Burgers
b. McDonalds
Which do you think I will charge less per burger?
a. small company only buying a few burgers
b. McDonalds
Or if we crash our without a deal and revert to WTO tariffs. A lot of U.K. companies that export to Europe freely just now will find they are u able to continue to do so because it’s too expensive. So the will have to lay people off, or even go out of business.
That is not fantasy concocted by anyone - it’s likely to be the harsh reality of a no deal exit.
Or who would you rather sell burgers to, MacDonalds or 10 different smaller burger companies?
You'd get a higher price with the smaller companies, and if one of them moved elsewhere, it won't destroy your business. Lot's of companies have gone bust because they've relied too much on one customer.
Which if the following entities is in a stronger position to negotiate a more favourable deal with, for example, the US or China?
The U.K.?
The EU?"
Negotiating with 27 different requirements and criteria would be far more complex than negotiating for 1 |
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"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
What don’t you believe?
The just isn’t complicated - the EU is a much larger trading entity than the U.K. on its own is, so has more clout.
Think about it. As an example, suppose I am a farmer who sells burgers. Which of the following will want to buy more burgers from me?
a. Joe’s Burgers
b. McDonalds
Which do you think I will charge less per burger?
a. small company only buying a few burgers
b. McDonalds
Or if we crash our without a deal and revert to WTO tariffs. A lot of U.K. companies that export to Europe freely just now will find they are u able to continue to do so because it’s too expensive. So the will have to lay people off, or even go out of business.
That is not fantasy concocted by anyone - it’s likely to be the harsh reality of a no deal exit.
Or who would you rather sell burgers to, MacDonalds or 10 different smaller burger companies?
You'd get a higher price with the smaller companies, and if one of them moved elsewhere, it won't destroy your business. Lot's of companies have gone bust because they've relied too much on one customer.
Which if the following entities is in a stronger position to negotiate a more favourable deal with, for example, the US or China?
The U.K.?
The EU?
Negotiating with 27 different requirements and criteria would be far more complex than negotiating for 1"
I think the end result is far more relevant than the means in which it was arrived. |
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"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
What don’t you believe?
The just isn’t complicated - the EU is a much larger trading entity than the U.K. on its own is, so has more clout.
Think about it. As an example, suppose I am a farmer who sells burgers. Which of the following will want to buy more burgers from me?
a. Joe’s Burgers
b. McDonalds
Which do you think I will charge less per burger?
a. small company only buying a few burgers
b. McDonalds
Or if we crash our without a deal and revert to WTO tariffs. A lot of U.K. companies that export to Europe freely just now will find they are u able to continue to do so because it’s too expensive. So the will have to lay people off, or even go out of business.
That is not fantasy concocted by anyone - it’s likely to be the harsh reality of a no deal exit.
Or who would you rather sell burgers to, MacDonalds or 10 different smaller burger companies?
You'd get a higher price with the smaller companies, and if one of them moved elsewhere, it won't destroy your business. Lot's of companies have gone bust because they've relied too much on one customer.
Which if the following entities is in a stronger position to negotiate a more favourable deal with, for example, the US or China?
The U.K.?
The EU?
Negotiating with 27 different requirements and criteria would be far more complex than negotiating for 1
I think the end result is far more relevant than the means in which it was arrived."
Not if it is not agreed by any 1 or more of the 27 countries |
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"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
What don’t you believe?
The just isn’t complicated - the EU is a much larger trading entity than the U.K. on its own is, so has more clout.
Think about it. As an example, suppose I am a farmer who sells burgers. Which of the following will want to buy more burgers from me?
a. Joe’s Burgers
b. McDonalds
Which do you think I will charge less per burger?
a. small company only buying a few burgers
b. McDonalds
Or if we crash our without a deal and revert to WTO tariffs. A lot of U.K. companies that export to Europe freely just now will find they are u able to continue to do so because it’s too expensive. So the will have to lay people off, or even go out of business.
That is not fantasy concocted by anyone - it’s likely to be the harsh reality of a no deal exit.
Or who would you rather sell burgers to, MacDonalds or 10 different smaller burger companies?
You'd get a higher price with the smaller companies, and if one of them moved elsewhere, it won't destroy your business. Lot's of companies have gone bust because they've relied too much on one customer.
Which if the following entities is in a stronger position to negotiate a more favourable deal with, for example, the US or China?
The U.K.?
The EU?
Negotiating with 27 different requirements and criteria would be far more complex than negotiating for 1
I think the end result is far more relevant than the means in which it was arrived.
Not if it is not agreed by any 1 or more of the 27 countries "
So is the situation with, for example, the US that there is currently no trade agreement in place on account of one or more of the 27 EU members not agreeing?
Negotiations take time, but to simply argue that a deal might not be struck seems to kinda miss the point.
It’s like me arguing that a plane would be quicker than a train, and you saying ‘ah, but not if the plane crashes!’. |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
What don’t you believe?
The just isn’t complicated - the EU is a much larger trading entity than the U.K. on its own is, so has more clout.
Think about it. As an example, suppose I am a farmer who sells burgers. Which of the following will want to buy more burgers from me?
a. Joe’s Burgers
b. McDonalds
Which do you think I will charge less per burger?
a. small company only buying a few burgers
b. McDonalds
Or if we crash our without a deal and revert to WTO tariffs. A lot of U.K. companies that export to Europe freely just now will find they are u able to continue to do so because it’s too expensive. So the will have to lay people off, or even go out of business.
That is not fantasy concocted by anyone - it’s likely to be the harsh reality of a no deal exit.
Or who would you rather sell burgers to, MacDonalds or 10 different smaller burger companies?
You'd get a higher price with the smaller companies, and if one of them moved elsewhere, it won't destroy your business. Lot's of companies have gone bust because they've relied too much on one customer.
Which if the following entities is in a stronger position to negotiate a more favourable deal with, for example, the US or China?
The U.K.?
The EU?
Negotiating with 27 different requirements and criteria would be far more complex than negotiating for 1
I think the end result is far more relevant than the means in which it was arrived."
Of course, the end result is reached in a matter of two or three years with one, or 10 or 20 years, or even never, with 27. |
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"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
What don’t you believe?
The just isn’t complicated - the EU is a much larger trading entity than the U.K. on its own is, so has more clout.
Think about it. As an example, suppose I am a farmer who sells burgers. Which of the following will want to buy more burgers from me?
a. Joe’s Burgers
b. McDonalds
Which do you think I will charge less per burger?
a. small company only buying a few burgers
b. McDonalds
Or if we crash our without a deal and revert to WTO tariffs. A lot of U.K. companies that export to Europe freely just now will find they are u able to continue to do so because it’s too expensive. So the will have to lay people off, or even go out of business.
That is not fantasy concocted by anyone - it’s likely to be the harsh reality of a no deal exit.
Or who would you rather sell burgers to, MacDonalds or 10 different smaller burger companies?
You'd get a higher price with the smaller companies, and if one of them moved elsewhere, it won't destroy your business. Lot's of companies have gone bust because they've relied too much on one customer.
Which if the following entities is in a stronger position to negotiate a more favourable deal with, for example, the US or China?
The U.K.?
The EU?
Negotiating with 27 different requirements and criteria would be far more complex than negotiating for 1
I think the end result is far more relevant than the means in which it was arrived.
Of course, the end result is reached in a matter of two or three years with one, or 10 or 20 years, or even never, with 27."
So does the EU currently have any trade agreements with anyone? The US for example? |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
What don’t you believe?
The just isn’t complicated - the EU is a much larger trading entity than the U.K. on its own is, so has more clout.
Think about it. As an example, suppose I am a farmer who sells burgers. Which of the following will want to buy more burgers from me?
a. Joe’s Burgers
b. McDonalds
Which do you think I will charge less per burger?
a. small company only buying a few burgers
b. McDonalds
Or if we crash our without a deal and revert to WTO tariffs. A lot of U.K. companies that export to Europe freely just now will find they are u able to continue to do so because it’s too expensive. So the will have to lay people off, or even go out of business.
That is not fantasy concocted by anyone - it’s likely to be the harsh reality of a no deal exit.
Or who would you rather sell burgers to, MacDonalds or 10 different smaller burger companies?
You'd get a higher price with the smaller companies, and if one of them moved elsewhere, it won't destroy your business. Lot's of companies have gone bust because they've relied too much on one customer.
Which if the following entities is in a stronger position to negotiate a more favourable deal with, for example, the US or China?
The U.K.?
The EU?
Negotiating with 27 different requirements and criteria would be far more complex than negotiating for 1
I think the end result is far more relevant than the means in which it was arrived.
Of course, the end result is reached in a matter of two or three years with one, or 10 or 20 years, or even never, with 27.
So does the EU currently have any trade agreements with anyone? The US for example?"
Not with the US, abandoned after 10 years of negotiations. Neither with Mercosur, waiting to be ratified by the 27 nations after 20 years of negotiations. At least 3 countries have said tgey will veto it. The Irish Agricultural Minister said the agreement woukd be much worse for the Irish economy than a no deal Brexit. |
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By *amantMan
over a year ago
Alnmouth |
"Do you believe in it. Or like me it. It is the millennium bug all over again x
What don’t you believe?
The just isn’t complicated - the EU is a much larger trading entity than the U.K. on its own is, so has more clout.
Think about it. As an example, suppose I am a farmer who sells burgers. Which of the following will want to buy more burgers from me?
a. Joe’s Burgers
b. McDonalds
Which do you think I will charge less per burger?
a. small company only buying a few burgers
b. McDonalds
Or if we crash our without a deal and revert to WTO tariffs. A lot of U.K. companies that export to Europe freely just now will find they are u able to continue to do so because it’s too expensive. So the will have to lay people off, or even go out of business.
That is not fantasy concocted by anyone - it’s likely to be the harsh reality of a no deal exit.
Or who would you rather sell burgers to, MacDonalds or 10 different smaller burger companies?
You'd get a higher price with the smaller companies, and if one of them moved elsewhere, it won't destroy your business. Lot's of companies have gone bust because they've relied too much on one customer.
Which if the following entities is in a stronger position to negotiate a more favourable deal with, for example, the US or China?
The U.K.?
The EU?
Negotiating with 27 different requirements and criteria would be far more complex than negotiating for 1
I think the end result is far more relevant than the means in which it was arrived.
Of course, the end result is reached in a matter of two or three years with one, or 10 or 20 years, or even never, with 27.
So does the EU currently have any trade agreements with anyone? The US for example?"
The EU recently signed agreements with Canada and Japan. Looking back a little further the EU has an FTA with South Korea. Another example would be Morocco, which is part of the Euro-Med free trade area. We are yet to sign rollover agreements with Canada, Japan and Morocco. |
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"The misfortunes we predict are seldom as bad as they turn out to be. Therefore, we have nothing to fear but fear itself'" Schiller.
Project fear is counter-productive. For example, how many people, on seeing Obama saying the UK "Would go to the back of the queue" if we voted for Brexit thought "Stuff you!" and voted out as a result? Many, we'd guess. |
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