FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > the law of unintended consequences
the law of unintended consequences
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
The world runs not on reality but on the perception of reality!.
So what's going to happen to society when it realises that they have no actual say in this place called a country.
Extrapolate that out to the EU, NATO,UN,WTO,
Do we finally realise were just pawns on a chessboard, kiss, have a group hug and sing kumbaya or go back to dividing into tribes and fight.
I've got a tenner on the latter and my passport at the ready. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *eordiesCouple
over a year ago
newcastle |
OR, maybe the electorate of the UK will kick out the present rabble from the HoC and elect a Party that reflects the views of the majority of the UK people.
First thing they would have to do would be really come down hard on criminals, including deporting anyone born outside the UK who was convicted of a serious crime.
Then taking care of UK born people rather than those who come to the UK illegally.
Then making sure the NHS is only for use of official UK residents, all visitors to the UK to have medical insurance.
BUT, just think if the UK did the above how long would it be before the French or other Europeans think, "you know the UK has got it right" and force the EU to either do the same or fall apart. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"OR, maybe the electorate of the UK will kick out the present rabble from the HoC and elect a Party that reflects the views of the majority of the UK people.
First thing they would have to do would be really come down hard on criminals, including deporting anyone born outside the UK who was convicted of a serious crime.
Then taking care of UK born people rather than those who come to the UK illegally.
Then making sure the NHS is only for use of official UK residents, all visitors to the UK to have medical insurance.
BUT, just think if the UK did the above how long would it be before the French or other Europeans think, "you know the UK has got it right" and force the EU to either do the same or fall apart."
.
A national health service for just citizens of said nation  .
Barbary sheer Barbary, won't somebody think of the children  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"OR, maybe the electorate of the UK will kick out the present rabble from the HoC and elect a Party that reflects the views of the majority of the UK people.
First thing they would have to do would be really come down hard on criminals, including deporting anyone born outside the UK who was convicted of a serious crime."
actually they already do this....
"Then taking care of UK born people rather than those who come to the UK illegally."
okay two things...
a) if i am here legally and now my taxes and leading a contributing life here... i expect to be treated the same as any person that was born here....
b) people who weren't born here actually as a whole contribute more tax per person and use less benefits per person that people who were born here....
"Then making sure the NHS is only for use of official UK residents, all visitors to the UK to have medical insurance."
erm.... first of all... EU residences don't cost the NHS a penny as all that money can be recouped from that persons country of origin (bit like if you has a massive incident in lets say spain.. they would bill the NHS!)
secondly... medical tourism is a myth as last year it cost the nhs approx 30 million...thats 0.0001% of the total nhs budget
"BUT, just think if the UK did the above how long would it be before the French or other Europeans think, "you know the UK has got it right" and force the EU to either do the same or fall apart."
really... because at the moment i think they are looking at the UK and quietly chuckling....
you say we don't have a great deal, i say we have a bloody great deal... we get all the good bits, we kept the pound, aren't part of the eurozone, aren't in schengen, and have an opt out on defence
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"OR, maybe the electorate of the UK will kick out the present rabble from the HoC and elect a Party that reflects the views of the majority of the UK people.
First thing they would have to do would be really come down hard on criminals, including deporting anyone born outside the UK who was convicted of a serious crime.
actually they already do this....
Then taking care of UK born people rather than those who come to the UK illegally.
okay two things...
a) if i am here legally and now my taxes and leading a contributing life here... i expect to be treated the same as any person that was born here....
b) people who weren't born here actually as a whole contribute more tax per person and use less benefits per person that people who were born here....
Then making sure the NHS is only for use of official UK residents, all visitors to the UK to have medical insurance.
erm.... first of all... EU residences don't cost the NHS a penny as all that money can be recouped from that persons country of origin (bit like if you has a massive incident in lets say spain.. they would bill the NHS!)
secondly... medical tourism is a myth as last year it cost the nhs approx 30 million...thats 0.0001% of the total nhs budget
BUT, just think if the UK did the above how long would it be before the French or other Europeans think, "you know the UK has got it right" and force the EU to either do the same or fall apart.
really... because at the moment i think they are looking at the UK and quietly chuckling....
you say we don't have a great deal, i say we have a bloody great deal... we get all the good bits, we kept the pound, aren't part of the eurozone, aren't in schengen, and have an opt out on defence
"
.
That's not quite what full fact says?.
https://fullfact.org/health/health-tourism-whats-cost/ |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
Here's the "recouped" costs from other EU countries.
Again not exactly as Fabio insinuates  .
https://fullfact.org/health/how-much-does-uk-recover-health-costs-eu/ |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Here's the "recouped" costs from other EU countries.
Again not exactly as Fabio insinuates .
https://fullfact.org/health/how-much-does-uk-recover-health-costs-eu/"
thats on the NHS.... not on the EU citizens! thats why people are advised to get E111's (EHIC) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *eordiesCouple
over a year ago
newcastle |
"OR, maybe the electorate of the UK will kick out the present rabble from the HoC and elect a Party that reflects the views of the majority of the UK people.
First thing they would have to do would be really come down hard on criminals, including deporting anyone born outside the UK who was convicted of a serious crime.
actually they already do this....
The ECoJ prevents many criminals being deported back to their home Country. Example, the Italian boy who stabbed the Headmaster to death a few years ago.
Then taking care of UK born people rather than those who come to the UK illegally.
okay two things...
a) if i am here legally and now my taxes and leading a contributing life here... i expect to be treated the same as any person that was born here....
So you would be, you are not a criminal
b) people who weren't born here
actually as a whole contribute more tax per person and use less benefits per person that people who were born here....
Not relevant to the point of being deported for criminal acts.
Then making sure the NHS is only for use of official UK residents, all visitors to the UK to have medical insurance.
erm.... first of all... EU residences don't cost the NHS a penny as all that money can be recouped from that persons country of origin (bit like if you has a massive incident in lets say spain.. they would bill the NHS!)
And what about people from other Countries ?
secondly... medical tourism is a myth as last year it cost the nhs approx 30 million...thats 0.0001% of the total nhs budget
Answered by others.
BUT, just think if the UK did the above how long would it be before the French or other Europeans think, "you know the UK has got it right" and force the EU to either do the same or fall apart.
really... because at the moment i think they are looking at the UK and quietly chuckling....
you say we don't have a great deal, i say we have a bloody great deal... we get all the good bits, we kept the pound, aren't part of the eurozone, aren't in schengen, and have an opt out on defence
But maybe if the average law-abiding EU citizen sees our Country becoming more safe, peaceful and happy they might DEMAND the same.
"
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"OR, maybe the electorate of the UK will kick out the present rabble from the HoC and elect a Party that reflects the views of the majority of the UK people.
First thing they would have to do would be really come down hard on criminals, including deporting anyone born outside the UK who was convicted of a serious crime.
Then taking care of UK born people rather than those who come to the UK illegally.
Then making sure the NHS is only for use of official UK residents, all visitors to the UK to have medical insurance.
BUT, just think if the UK did the above how long would it be before the French or other Europeans think, "you know the UK has got it right" and force the EU to either do the same or fall apart."
 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"OR, maybe the electorate of the UK will kick out the present rabble from the HoC and elect a Party that reflects the views of the majority of the UK people.
First thing they would have to do would be really come down hard on criminals, including deporting anyone born outside the UK who was convicted of a serious crime.
Then taking care of UK born people rather than those who come to the UK illegally.
Then making sure the NHS is only for use of official UK residents, all visitors to the UK to have medical insurance.
BUT, just think if the UK did the above how long would it be before the French or other Europeans think, "you know the UK has got it right" and force the EU to either do the same or fall apart."
They could have done all that while part of the EU, so what makes you think they would do it now? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Here's the "recouped" costs from other EU countries.
Again not exactly as Fabio insinuates .
https://fullfact.org/health/how-much-does-uk-recover-health-costs-eu/"
All money is recouped by the NHS, the article even says so, that treating people in the UK is cheap, so they dont ask a lot for a french person visiting a hospital.
It is costing the NHS lots to treat UK people who get sick abroad, this is probably all the d*unk uk people in spain getting private hospital care when they hurt themselves. In some parts of spain they are building hospitals just for d*unk UK people.
The simple fact is, d*unk UK people abroad are probably costing the nhs 500 million a year. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Here's the "recouped" costs from other EU countries.
Again not exactly as Fabio insinuates .
https://fullfact.org/health/how-much-does-uk-recover-health-costs-eu/
thats on the NHS.... not on the EU citizens! thats why people are advised to get E111's (EHIC)"
.
Well I agree, on the NHS were incompetent regardless of political parties in office.
It just seems the people in charge aren't interested in budgets otherwise there'd recoup that 1.8billon on tourists and that 655 million quid difference on EU swaps.
I mean that alone would give the NHS a 2.3% budget increase but hey why bother when we can just blame the Tory's and let's not even get into the billions payed out on incompetent health care, surgeries, workers being allergic to latex etc etc etc.
The NHS is perfect in every way shape and form and nobody should say different otherwise your a fascist |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Here's the "recouped" costs from other EU countries.
Again not exactly as Fabio insinuates .
https://fullfact.org/health/how-much-does-uk-recover-health-costs-eu/
All money is recouped by the NHS, the article even says so, that treating people in the UK is cheap, so they dont ask a lot for a french person visiting a hospital.
It is costing the NHS lots to treat UK people who get sick abroad, this is probably all the d*unk uk people in spain getting private hospital care when they hurt themselves. In some parts of spain they are building hospitals just for d*unk UK people.
The simple fact is, d*unk UK people abroad are probably costing the nhs 500 million a year."
.
So the Spanish are getting them there,wonga, getting them pissed, wonga, then charging us for fixing them, wonga.
And they said ppi was a scandal  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *eordiesCouple
over a year ago
newcastle |
"OR, maybe the electorate of the UK will kick out the present rabble from the HoC and elect a Party that reflects the views of the majority of the UK people.
First thing they would have to do would be really come down hard on criminals, including deporting anyone born outside the UK who was convicted of a serious crime.
Then taking care of UK born people rather than those who come to the UK illegally.
Then making sure the NHS is only for use of official UK residents, all visitors to the UK to have medical insurance.
BUT, just think if the UK did the above how long would it be before the French or other Europeans think, "you know the UK has got it right" and force the EU to either do the same or fall apart.
They could have done all that while part of the EU, so what makes you think they would do it now? "
That's the point, we'll have to get rid of the current "they" and get some new "they" who know, and deliver, what ordinary people want !! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Hopefully we all remember that pitchforks, street lights and bonfires have more than 1 use...You are sick in the head"
Are you worried that maybe some of those you consider/ed untermensch and did down in your time as a social worker may have memories and maybe come looking for you?
By the way. At last years Bilderberg group meeting at least one of their members gave a speech pointing out that living in gated comunities with private armies of security guards would not protect the uber wealthy and political elite when the mobs come for them. I expect the guy who gave that speech was sick too in your eyes (unless he gets a pass because he is one of your billionaire heroes). |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Were having our pants pulled down by our EU friends "
No! We have had our pants pulled down by the Tories for the last 4 decades, and we have allowed them to get away with blaming the EU for Tory actions. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
There are plenty of people who read news sources that are little more then propaganda Vermin to society. But then you realise that there are still some people who believe the lies told by the leave parties and campaigns, without an ounce of critical thought nor acceptance of the dubious nature of their tactics and the personalities involved.
As for this topic, it's somewhat uncertain what will happen. Common sense hints that those with power will be reluctant not to use any and every tool at their disposal to ensure that their means of retention of their power and assets will continue or increase. You're a tool to their ends. Those tools who wilfully persist to sustain their active sustenance of parasitic filth could be the 'human' shields that are hastily pushed into place and exposed to anything that seems fitting to others |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Vermin", "parasitic filth".
I thought the left was against dehumanising folks?.
Ooh you meant everybody else just not the people your against, it's fine to dehumanise jrm or Boris or even entire blanket sections of society who don't vote left  . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"Only an idiot would hope our biggest trading partner would collapse."
The EU is not our biggest trading partner, the countries within the EU are our trading partners, the EU could be gone tomorrow but the people of Europe will still be there and needing to buy and sell stuff, I dont know anyone who wants the countries of Europe to collapse |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Only an idiot would hope our biggest trading partner would collapse.
The EU is not our biggest trading partner, the countries within the EU are our trading partners, the EU could be gone tomorrow but the people of Europe will still be there and needing to buy and sell stuff, I dont know anyone who wants the countries of Europe to collapse"
.
Shush, the EU is a country in their eyes, they wave flags and got the anthem on they're iPods |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Here's the "recouped" costs from other EU countries.
Again not exactly as Fabio insinuates .
https://fullfact.org/health/how-much-does-uk-recover-health-costs-eu/
All money is recouped by the NHS, the article even says so, that treating people in the UK is cheap, so they dont ask a lot for a french person visiting a hospital.
It is costing the NHS lots to treat UK people who get sick abroad, this is probably all the d*unk uk people in spain getting private hospital care when they hurt themselves. In some parts of spain they are building hospitals just for d*unk UK people.
The simple fact is, d*unk UK people abroad are probably costing the nhs 500 million a year..
So the Spanish are getting them there,wonga, getting them pissed, wonga, then charging us for fixing them, wonga.
And they said ppi was a scandal "
Spain gets how much it costs to look after British people. Thats it. They would get the same amount of money from the UK regardless, it would either come from the nhs, or british insurance companies.
And the UK will never get 200 million from spain, because spanish people are not visiting the UK, getting d*unk, climbing out onto balconies, trying to jump into a swimming pools, missing, and smashing their leg into bits, are they? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"OR, maybe the electorate of the UK will kick out the present rabble from the HoC and elect a Party that reflects the views of the majority of the UK people.
First thing they would have to do would be really come down hard on criminals, including deporting anyone born outside the UK who was convicted of a serious crime.
Then taking care of UK born people rather than those who come to the UK illegally.
Then making sure the NHS is only for use of official UK residents, all visitors to the UK to have medical insurance.
BUT, just think if the UK did the above how long would it be before the French or other Europeans think, "you know the UK has got it right" and force the EU to either do the same or fall apart.
They could have done all that while part of the EU, so what makes you think they would do it now?
That's the point, we'll have to get rid of the current "they" and get some new "they" who know, and deliver, what ordinary people want !!"
But you could have got rid of the "they" without leaving the EU.
While being a member of the EU, the UK can refuse any EU law, write its own, remove itself rom the european human courts of rights, ask europeans to leave, and control their own borders.
France can not do any of that, and they are happy in the EU.
The trouble for the UK now is, that they could do all this stuff while in the EU and have the EU keep their trade deals with India, brazil, Canada, Japan.
But try do a trade deal with India now and tell them that you wont let any of them into the UK.
So the ability of the UK to control its borders has been reduced by leaving. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
" the EU could be gone tomorrow but the people of Europe will still be there and needing to buy and sell stuff"
The biggest financial collapse in history - the disintegration of monetary union and the political structures that underpin it - and you think it would be "business as usual"?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Here's the "recouped" costs from other EU countries.
Again not exactly as Fabio insinuates .
https://fullfact.org/health/how-much-does-uk-recover-health-costs-eu/
All money is recouped by the NHS, the article even says so, that treating people in the UK is cheap, so they dont ask a lot for a french person visiting a hospital.
It is costing the NHS lots to treat UK people who get sick abroad, this is probably all the d*unk uk people in spain getting private hospital care when they hurt themselves. In some parts of spain they are building hospitals just for d*unk UK people.
The simple fact is, d*unk UK people abroad are probably costing the nhs 500 million a year..
So the Spanish are getting them there,wonga, getting them pissed, wonga, then charging us for fixing them, wonga.
And they said ppi was a scandal
Spain gets how much it costs to look after British people. Thats it. They would get the same amount of money from the UK regardless, it would either come from the nhs, or british insurance companies.
And the UK will never get 200 million from spain, because spanish people are not visiting the UK, getting d*unk, climbing out onto balconies, trying to jump into a swimming pools, missing, and smashing their leg into bits, are they?"
.
I don't know about the Spanish on holiday or the Brits to be honest I tend to go places Brits don't .
Anyhow funnily enough I happened to Google UK oversea visitors and was a little shocked to see the UK is the sixth most visited country in the world .
They must really love the rain and the stabbings I guess. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" the EU could be gone tomorrow but the people of Europe will still be there and needing to buy and sell stuff
The biggest financial collapse in history - the disintegration of monetary union and the political structures that underpin it - and you think it would be "business as usual"?
"
There is no price too great for the members of the Brexit cult .
First you must break society before you rebuild.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
" the EU could be gone tomorrow but the people of Europe will still be there and needing to buy and sell stuff
The biggest financial collapse in history - the disintegration of monetary union and the political structures that underpin it - and you think it would be "business as usual"?
There is no price too great for the members of the Brexit cult .
First you must break society before you rebuild.
"
.
No need the left/liberal alliance fucked society up years ago, all that's left is to rebuild in the great leaders image.
Nige for king |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Yes, if we carry on the way we are heading, it'll be the Balkanisation of Britain.
"
This is a real worry for us all at this time. I value The Union, we have all done so much together. As one who has always seen himself as a Briton foremost, I could never support all this devolution somehow. It's divisive.
The current stance of Plaid and the SNP is abhorent to me. Both lead by two vile harpies, they will have us all at each others throats if we let them. They seek, at present, to solely further their political ends whilst risking the stability of society in the best country in the world. I do hope they see sense. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Yes, nationalism and ethnic tribalism is incredibly divisive.
Be it in Ireland, Scotland or in Brexit.
It divides people, it divides families, it divides communities.
And there is nothing quite so divisive as a referendum about nationalism that yields such an indecisive outcome as 52/48.
It doesn't settle the argument, it just makes people argue even more.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"This is a real worry for us all at this time. I value The Union, we have all done so much together. As one who has always seen himself as a Briton foremost, I could never support all this devolution somehow. It's divisive.
The current stance of Plaid and the SNP is abhorent to me. Both lead by two vile harpies, they will have us all at each others throats if we let them. They seek, at present, to solely further their political ends whilst risking the stability of society in the best country in the world. I do hope they see sense."
Funny how you blame division on devolution rather than on policies that fostered the demands for decentralisation of power.
"Yes, nationalism and ethnic tribalism is incredibly divisive.
Be it in Ireland, Scotland or in Brexit.
It divides people, it divides families, it divides communities.
And there is nothing quite so divisive as a referendum about nationalism that yields such an indecisive outcome as 52/48.
It doesn't settle the argument, it just makes people argue even more.
"
Which is exactly what the Tories intended and the same is true for their regional and welfare policies that started the process of fracturing the nation in order to remain in power. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The world runs not on reality but on the perception of reality!.
So what's going to happen to society when it realises that they have no actual say in this place called a country.
Extrapolate that out to the EU, NATO,UN,WTO,
Do we finally realise were just pawns on a chessboard, kiss, have a group hug and sing kumbaya or go back to dividing into tribes and fight.
I've got a tenner on the latter and my passport at the ready."
Agreed!
Facts:
IMMIGRATION:
"An estimated 202,000 citizens from other EU countries immigrated to the UK in the year to September 2018, and about 145,000 emigrated abroad. So EU ‘net migration’ was around 57,000—roughly the lowest level recorded since 2009."
"Estimated non-EU net migration, meanwhile, is 261,000 a year—the highest level recorded since 2004. It has been almost consistently higher than EU migration for decades."
WORKER CONTRIBUTIONS:
"EU migrant workers contribute £2,300 more per year to UK than average British citizen, study reveals.
If the UK’s new relationship with Europe involves reduced migration, this analysis suggests the tax burden on others will have to rise.
Taxes will have to rise if Brexit brings strict curbs on EU workers because they pay far more to the public purse than British-born residents, a study warns.
Migrants from the EU contribute £2,300 more to the exchequer each year in net terms than the average adult, the analysis for the government has found.
And, over their lifetimes, they pay in £78,000 more than they take out in public services and benefits - while the average UK citizen’s net lifetime contribution is zero."
I just hope all of those wonderful trade deals that the UK are going to negotiate are bloody good!
I mean given the size & clout of the EU (almost 7x the size of the UK by population) the World will surely be lining up to give us preferential deals to those offered to the EU....won't they?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
