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Blocking no deal alliance
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Is doomed from the start?
Corbyn wants to be a "caretaker" pm for a short term, presumably declaring sn election afterwards.
But the likes of jo swinton doesn't want corbyn in no.10, is this jealousy and wanting to be pm herself?
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
had to laugh she has just said if we have an election after the 31st october without stopping brexit it will be undemocratic.Funny how all of a sudden she believes in democracy when shes been trying to stop what the country voted for the last 3 years.Hypocrisy at its best.  |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Corbyn trying to get into No10 by the back door, I don't care which way you voted. Don't let that man into No10 or Brexit will be least of our worries. "
To true couldn't trust a man to lead the country who wont even sing the national anthem.
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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago
Huddersfield /derby cinemas |
"Corbyn trying to get into No10 by the back door, I don't care which way you voted. Don't let that man into No10 or Brexit will be least of our worries. To true couldn't trust a man to lead the country who wont even sing the national anthem."
. If you want to vote for people who can sing a song try the X-factor or Britains Got Tallent
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
i think it is interesting that the first 3 people in the thread have tried to spin what happened in the meeting......
because here is the actual joint statement that was released....
"The leaders of the opposition parties held a productive and detailed meeting on stopping a disastrous no-deal exit from the EU.
Jeremy Corbyn outlined the legal advice he has received from shadow attorney general, Shami Chakrabarti, which calls Boris Johnson’s plans to suspend parliament to force through a no deal “the gravest abuse of power and attack upon UK constitutional principle in living memory”.
The attendees agreed that Boris Johnson has shown himself open to using anti-democratic means to force through no deal.
The attendees agreed on the urgency to act together to find practical ways to prevent no deal, including the possibility of passing legislation and a vote of no confidence.
The party leaders agreed to further meetings."
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
so they are talking about taking legistlation route first... and then the "vote of no confidence" route is the last option of resort....
if they do get the legistlation route they are basically going to dare boris johnson to try and shut down parliament to get his no deal thru....
i think you can also say that there is going to be no "party conference season" this year.... as they are going to oppose going into recess for it, because it is going to take 3 weeks off the "time for options"....... |
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Would this be the same Chakrabati who could not find evidence of anti-Semitism in the Labour party.... and then suddenly got a peerage?
I wouldn't trust her to give me legal advice on a parking ticket.  |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Would this be the same Chakrabati who could not find evidence of anti-Semitism in the Labour party.... and then suddenly got a peerage?
I wouldn't trust her to give me legal advice on a parking ticket. "
That'll be the one.... But you've got to trust her expert opinion on anti-semitism in the Labour Party. After all, experts never get it wrong. |
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"“the gravest abuse of power and attack upon UK constitutional principle in living memory”."
My opinion is, the vote we held 3 years ago was democratic, and a majority voted to leave.
The government attempted to get the agreed deal through parliament...and failed, not once, not twice, but 3 times, meaning the deal as it stands is just not acceptable to the House of Commons.
The current leader of the government has said therefore that we need to re-negotiate it, and then get that through, or leave with no deal.
He is trying to avoid dickheads like Corbyn and the others from derailing that process....which is far more of an "attack upon UK constitutional principle" than what Johnson is trying to do. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Imagine caring whether or not a politician sings a song.
Patriotism really does rot the brain. "
If the leader of the county has no respect for it i dont see how he can convince other countries to.I suppose he could try and change it to The Red flag he seems happy to sing that one. |
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"Would this be the same Chakrabati who could not find evidence of anti-Semitism in the Labour party.... and then suddenly got a peerage?
I wouldn't trust her to give me legal advice on a parking ticket. "
she is a barrister...... |
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""“the gravest abuse of power and attack upon UK constitutional principle in living memory”."
My opinion is, the vote we held 3 years ago was democratic, and a majority voted to leave.
The government attempted to get the agreed deal through parliament...and failed, not once, not twice, but 3 times, meaning the deal as it stands is just not acceptable to the House of Commons.
The current leader of the government has said therefore that we need to re-negotiate it, and then get that through, or leave with no deal.
He is trying to avoid dickheads like Corbyn and the others from derailing that process....which is far more of an "attack upon UK constitutional principle" than what Johnson is trying to do."
What's democratic about closing down parliament? We were told Brexit was about sovereignty: parliament is sovereign but apparently only when it suits the fat oaf |
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"Would this be the same Chakrabati who could not find evidence of anti-Semitism in the Labour party.... and then suddenly got a peerage?
I wouldn't trust her to give me legal advice on a parking ticket. she is a barrister......"
Yes, she is.... a barrister who couldn't find anti-semetism in the Labour Party, which is a bit like me walking on a grass field, and then saying I couldn't find any blades of grass!  |
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"My opinion is, the vote we held 3 years ago was democratic, and a majority voted to leave."
And the President of Syria was democratically elected, but it doesnt stop the UK trying to sanction them and tell us the people there didn't have a fair vote, and did not have all facts available to them.
Democracy depends on a degree of openness, and the brexit vote just had scaremongering.
This is very very clear, because people voted on something 3 years ago, and they still dont know what it means. |
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""“the gravest abuse of power and attack upon UK constitutional principle in living memory”."
My opinion is, the vote we held 3 years ago was democratic, and a majority voted to leave.
The government attempted to get the agreed deal through parliament...and failed, not once, not twice, but 3 times, meaning the deal as it stands is just not acceptable to the House of Commons.
The current leader of the government has said therefore that we need to re-negotiate it, and then get that through, or leave with no deal.
He is trying to avoid dickheads like Corbyn and the others from derailing that process....which is far more of an "attack upon UK constitutional principle" than what Johnson is trying to do.
What's democratic about closing down parliament? We were told Brexit was about sovereignty: parliament is sovereign but apparently only when it suits the fat oaf"
And what's democratic about trying to undermine a freely held, democratic vote by any means necessary?
They aren't interested in what the result of the referendum was, they are only interested in getting the result they wanted... Britain to remain in the EU, and they will happily ditch their previously held differences in order to do it. |
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"My opinion is, the vote we held 3 years ago was democratic, and a majority voted to leave.
And the President of Syria was democratically elected, but it doesnt stop the UK trying to sanction them and tell us the people there didn't have a fair vote, and did not have all facts available to them.
Democracy depends on a degree of openness, and the brexit vote just had scaremongering.
This is very very clear, because people voted on something 3 years ago, and they still dont know what it means."
The President of Syria wasn't elected fairly, it was rigged, and the majority of the rest of the world deplore the human rights record of his government, which includes using chemical weapons on his own people, who just so happen to oppose him and his regime.... not very democratic things, barrel bombs. |
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"Would this be the same Chakrabati who could not find evidence of anti-Semitism in the Labour party.... and then suddenly got a peerage?
I wouldn't trust her to give me legal advice on a parking ticket. she is a barrister......
Yes, she is.... a barrister who couldn't find anti-semetism in the Labour Party, which is a bit like me walking on a grass field, and then saying I couldn't find any blades of grass! "
You didn't read the report did you? She found that anti semitism wasn't endemic (she didn't say it didn't exist) and made 20 (I think) recommendations for dealing with racism and anti semitism in the party |
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""“the gravest abuse of power and attack upon UK constitutional principle in living memory”."
My opinion is, the vote we held 3 years ago was democratic, and a majority voted to leave.
The government attempted to get the agreed deal through parliament...and failed, not once, not twice, but 3 times, meaning the deal as it stands is just not acceptable to the House of Commons.
The current leader of the government has said therefore that we need to re-negotiate it, and then get that through, or leave with no deal.
He is trying to avoid dickheads like Corbyn and the others from derailing that process....which is far more of an "attack upon UK constitutional principle" than what Johnson is trying to do.
What's democratic about closing down parliament? We were told Brexit was about sovereignty: parliament is sovereign but apparently only when it suits the fat oaf
And what's democratic about trying to undermine a freely held, democratic vote by any means necessary?
They aren't interested in what the result of the referendum was, they are only interested in getting the result they wanted... Britain to remain in the EU, and they will happily ditch their previously held differences in order to do it."
They're trying to stop No Deal, not stop Brexit. |
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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago
on the hill NordWest of |
There's nothing undemocratic in avoiding a damaging no-deal Brexit. The referendum was advisory for the lawmakers in Parliament. It is the responsibility of the latter to seek the best outcome for the UK and its people. If the majority of the parliament considers a no deal Brexit as an unacceptable solution to realise the will of the people, then it is an entirely democratic process. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There's nothing undemocratic in avoiding a damaging no-deal Brexit. The referendum was advisory for the lawmakers in Parliament. It is the responsibility of the latter to seek the best outcome for the UK and its people. If the majority of the parliament considers a no deal Brexit as an unacceptable solution to realise the will of the people, then it is an entirely democratic process. "
Truth dat !  |
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""“the gravest abuse of power and attack upon UK constitutional principle in living memory”."
My opinion is, the vote we held 3 years ago was democratic, and a majority voted to leave.
The government attempted to get the agreed deal through parliament...and failed, not once, not twice, but 3 times, meaning the deal as it stands is just not acceptable to the House of Commons.
The current leader of the government has said therefore that we need to re-negotiate it, and then get that through, or leave with no deal.
He is trying to avoid dickheads like Corbyn and the others from derailing that process....which is far more of an "attack upon UK constitutional principle" than what Johnson is trying to do.
What's democratic about closing down parliament? We were told Brexit was about sovereignty: parliament is sovereign but apparently only when it suits the fat oaf
And what's democratic about trying to undermine a freely held, democratic vote by any means necessary?
They aren't interested in what the result of the referendum was, they are only interested in getting the result they wanted... Britain to remain in the EU, and they will happily ditch their previously held differences in order to do it.
They're trying to stop No Deal, not stop Brexit. "
Nope, they have taken the opportunity to stop Brexit, or at least try. |
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"Would this be the same Chakrabati who could not find evidence of anti-Semitism in the Labour party.... and then suddenly got a peerage?
I wouldn't trust her to give me legal advice on a parking ticket. she is a barrister......
Yes, she is.... a barrister who couldn't find anti-semetism in the Labour Party, which is a bit like me walking on a grass field, and then saying I couldn't find any blades of grass!
You didn't read the report did you? She found that anti semitism wasn't endemic (she didn't say it didn't exist) and made 20 (I think) recommendations for dealing with racism and anti semitism in the party "
Well, the report was described by more than one source as a "whitewash", so I guess I don't need to read it. Her recommendations don't seem to have been acted upon, in fact things seem to have got worse after her "report", not better, almost like some people within the Labour Party felt that they could get away with even more. |
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I'm still hopeful that we can avoid a "No Deal" Brexit, but having the loons loose in Parliament only gives the EU hope that they don't have to move on the terms of the deal, almost like May taking "No Deal" off the table, which I think led to the position we are in now.
So long as there is the slightest risk of no deal exit, I feel the UK has a little bit of leverage towards re-negotiations. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
""“the gravest abuse of power and attack upon UK constitutional principle in living memory”."
My opinion is, the vote we held 3 years ago was democratic, and a majority voted to leave.
The government attempted to get the agreed deal through parliament...and failed, not once, not twice, but 3 times, meaning the deal as it stands is just not acceptable to the House of Commons.
The current leader of the government has said therefore that we need to re-negotiate it, and then get that through, or leave with no deal.
He is trying to avoid dickheads like Corbyn and the others from derailing that process....which is far more of an "attack upon UK constitutional principle" than what Johnson is trying to do.
What's democratic about closing down parliament? We were told Brexit was about sovereignty: parliament is sovereign but apparently only when it suits the fat oaf
And what's democratic about trying to undermine a freely held, democratic vote by any means necessary?
They aren't interested in what the result of the referendum was, they are only interested in getting the result they wanted... Britain to remain in the EU, and they will happily ditch their previously held differences in order to do it.
They're trying to stop No Deal, not stop Brexit. "
what ian blackford and jo swinton? you must be living on a different planet of course they are trying to stop brexit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don’t want to get into a argument about ‘we voted leave and thats that’ but the facts are it was a tight referendum result.
At no point was a ‘crash out with no deal’ mentioned as a serious outcome. Both remain and leave acknowledged there would be a deal and that to leave without one would be an act of self harm.
Given such a small margin of victory for a moderate Brexit, an extreme version of appears not to be what people voted for.
There is a real possibility that, if it was put to the public vote, this extreme Brexit would not get a majority.
Irrespective of your views on Brexit, that a battle of ideology within the Conservative party can be allowed to put the rest of the country at risk doesn’t appear to be anything like democratic.
Just my opinion.
Also, worth’s remembering that everyone has an opinion and it carries just as much weight/ validity so let’s debate this calmly and based on fact.
Unfortunately it’s became a us vs them issue and is argued with ever more extreme language.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think people forget that leaving with a deal is still a pile of shit compared to remaining in the EU.
Or course it's better than no deal. But they're going to paint whatever crappy deal we end up with as some kind victory. It's a joke. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's funny how we have got to a place where it is deemed as being more democratic to use any means necessary to stop the democratically elected representatives of the people have their say on HOW we exit the EU, than it is to let the people have a direct say.
Especially when those who shouted loudest about the eu being undemocratic are now leading the fight against a vote... |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"It's funny how we have got to a place where it is deemed as being more democratic to use any means necessary to stop the democratically elected representatives of the people have their say on HOW we exit the EU, than it is to let the people have a direct say.
Especially when those who shouted loudest about the eu being undemocratic are now leading the fight against a vote... "
So are you happy that you was given a vote that the democratically elected representatives said they would honour and now wont? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's funny how we have got to a place where it is deemed as being more democratic to use any means necessary to stop the democratically elected representatives of the people have their say on HOW we exit the EU, than it is to let the people have a direct say.
Especially when those who shouted loudest about the eu being undemocratic are now leading the fight against a vote... So are you happy that you was given a vote that the democratically elected representatives said they would honour and now wont?"
I'm more unhappy they votwd against May's deal when she was the leader of the democratically elected government. Who the people voted to negotiate for us. To me that's honouring two elections.
Id be unhappy if they voted to revoke article 50. That's not honouring the referendum.
I think a second vote is schrodingers... Both honouring and not honouring. Aka a kop out.
If the people change their mind. That's democracy.
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"It's funny how we have got to a place where it is deemed as being more democratic to use any means necessary to stop the democratically elected representatives of the people have their say on HOW we exit the EU, than it is to let the people have a direct say.
Especially when those who shouted loudest about the eu being undemocratic are now leading the fight against a vote... "
Oh god..... we had a vote... we voted out!
The EU will do everything in its power not to make it easy, as otherwise we wont be the last to leave! |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"So are you happy that you was given a vote that the democratically elected representatives said they would honour and now wont?"
1) they said they would honour it WITH a deal...
2) I seem to remember that over half of the conservative party did not vote for the deal agreed.....
so when did a "no deal" brexit become the default position?
were we not told a norway deal, or a canada deal, or a swiss deal...... we were told those by farage and his ilk though the whole campaign....
you wanted to "take back control"....
you wanted parliament to be sovereign....
the british supreme court decided that parliament was sovereign!!!
well this is what it looks like..... |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
Oh god..... we had a vote... we voted out!
The EU will do everything in its power not to make it easy, as otherwise we wont be the last to leave!"
sweet baby jesus, we would have been out if those conservative party mp's had agreed to mays deal!!!
and yet you still want to blame the EU...ffs!  |
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"So are you happy that you was given a vote that the democratically elected representatives said they would honour and now wont?
1) they said they would honour it WITH a deal...
2) I seem to remember that over half of the conservative party did not vote for the deal agreed.....
so when did a "no deal" brexit become the default position?
were we not told a norway deal, or a canada deal, or a swiss deal...... we were told those by farage and his ilk though the whole campaign....
you wanted to "take back control"....
you wanted parliament to be sovereign....
the british supreme court decided that parliament was sovereign!!!
well this is what it looks like..... "
The biggest problem was that May took "No Deal" off the table, and weakened our hand massively.
I think if she hadn't done that, we might have got a better deal. Big mistake letting a soft remainer lead the negotiations. |
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"
Oh god..... we had a vote... we voted out!
The EU will do everything in its power not to make it easy, as otherwise we wont be the last to leave!
sweet baby jesus, we would have been out if those conservative party mp's had agreed to mays deal!!!
and yet you still want to blame the EU...ffs! "
The deal she agreed was shit.
As proved by the fact that it was voted down 3 times. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
Oh god..... we had a vote... we voted out!
The EU will do everything in its power not to make it easy, as otherwise we wont be the last to leave!
sweet baby jesus, we would have been out if those conservative party mp's had agreed to mays deal!!!
and yet you still want to blame the EU...ffs!
The deal she agreed was shit.
As proved by the fact that it was voted down 3 times."
the deal that your current PM voted for... so he can't have thought it was that bad!!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's funny how we have got to a place where it is deemed as being more democratic to use any means necessary to stop the democratically elected representatives of the people have their say on HOW we exit the EU, than it is to let the people have a direct say.
Especially when those who shouted loudest about the eu being undemocratic are now leading the fight against a vote...
Oh god..... we had a vote... we voted out!
The EU will do everything in its power not to make it easy, as otherwise we wont be the last to leave!"
Do you think the general cluster fuck and financial ruin caused by any form of brexit isn't enough to put other countries off? That the EU won't make it easy for us?
Also why should they make it easy. They're negotiating on their own behalf, not on ours. We used to avail of their negotiation skills.
I can see that the ultra rich elites could see how easy it was to bullshit people enough to vote themselves deeper into austerity and poverty for their benefit of the few at the top. So maybe they will try it. But I can't see ordinary citizens in any other EU country having the wool pulled over their eyes so easily. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Oh god..... we had a vote... we voted out!
The EU will do everything in its power not to make it easy, as otherwise we wont be the last to leave!
sweet baby jesus, we would have been out if those conservative party mp's had agreed to mays deal!!!
and yet you still want to blame the EU...ffs!
The deal she agreed was shit.
As proved by the fact that it was voted down 3 times."
Of course the deal was shit. We had the best deal possible but then we voted out. Leaving two choices. A shit deal, or no deal which is even worse.
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
Im warming to another general election now as the latest polls put boris 12% in front.It would also see the back of anna soubry and other party jumpers.Comrade corbyn will be sacked and put an end to the far left in the labour government. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Im warming to another general election now as the latest polls put boris 12% in front.It would also see the back of anna soubry and other party jumpers.Comrade corbyn will be sacked and put an end to the far left in the labour government."
they probably wont now....
they can try and call one under the fixed term parliament act, but i bet if the conservatives they tried that (remembering they would need 2/3rd of parliament to agree) the no deal brexit group would add an amendment to it to get the brexit leaving date changed.... and basically turn in into a poison pill bill... |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Im warming to another general election now as the latest polls put boris 12% in front.It would also see the back of anna soubry and other party jumpers.Comrade corbyn will be sacked and put an end to the far left in the labour government.
they probably wont now....
they can try and call one under the fixed term parliament act, but i bet if the conservatives they tried that (remembering they would need 2/3rd of parliament to agree) the no deal brexit group would add an amendment to it to get the brexit leaving date changed.... and basically turn in into a poison pill bill..."
the tories wont but if corbyn tries a no confidence vote wins and then cant agree to who leads it will happen. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Is doomed from the start?
Corbyn wants to be a "caretaker" pm for a short term, presumably declaring sn election afterwards.
But the likes of jo swinton doesn't want corbyn in no.10, is this jealousy and wanting to be pm herself?
"
Think about this from Swinson's perspective.
A vote of "no confidence" in Johnson means a General Election is inevitable.
She hopes to scoop up the disaffected Conservative voters.
She also knows those same voters detest Corbyn.
So, does she want to go into that election having conspired to put Corbyn into No. 10, albeit temporarily?
Faced with claims, not unreasonably, that a vote for the Lib Dems will give you Corbyn as the next PM.
I suspect she is afraid of scaring away the Conservative vote she is targeting.
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Im warming to another general election now as the latest polls put boris 12% in front.It would also see the back of anna soubry and other party jumpers.Comrade corbyn will be sacked and put an end to the far left in the labour government.
they probably wont now....
they can try and call one under the fixed term parliament act, but i bet if the conservatives they tried that (remembering they would need 2/3rd of parliament to agree) the no deal brexit group would add an amendment to it to get the brexit leaving date changed.... and basically turn in into a poison pill bill...the tories wont but if corbyn tries a no confidence vote wins and then cant agree to who leads it will happen."
but remember the different party leaders agreed today to go down the path of legistlation first...... and only if that didn't work they would go down the route of vote of no confidence....
merkle and macron actually did Bojo a favour, but with a sting in the tail...
they basically give bojo 30 days....but then the onus is on him to come up with something that works around the need for the backstop and complies with the GFA....
if he can't... thats not on them.... thats on him!
I think the most likely solution is the northern ireland only backstop... but then the DUP will go mad! |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
The biggest problem was that May took "No Deal" off the table, and weakened our hand massively.
I think if she hadn't done that, we might have got a better deal. Big mistake letting a soft remainer lead the negotiations."
According to her deputy, Liddington, May stepped back from No Deal in February after speaking with community leaders in Northern Ireland.
She came to the conclusion a re-unification vote was inevitable in the event of No Deal and wasn't prepared to take that risk.
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Im warming to another general election now as the latest polls put boris 12% in front.It would also see the back of anna soubry and other party jumpers.Comrade corbyn will be sacked and put an end to the far left in the labour government.
they probably wont now....
they can try and call one under the fixed term parliament act, but i bet if the conservatives they tried that (remembering they would need 2/3rd of parliament to agree) the no deal brexit group would add an amendment to it to get the brexit leaving date changed.... and basically turn in into a poison pill bill...the tories wont but if corbyn tries a no confidence vote wins and then cant agree to who leads it will happen.
but remember the different party leaders agreed today to go down the path of legistlation first...... and only if that didn't work they would go down the route of vote of no confidence....
merkle and macron actually did Bojo a favour, but with a sting in the tail...
they basically give bojo 30 days....but then the onus is on him to come up with something that works around the need for the backstop and complies with the GFA....
if he can't... thats not on them.... thats on him!
I think the most likely solution is the northern ireland only backstop... but then the DUP will go mad! "
Even if they get the legislation it will lead to a GE the tories are ahead in the polls and even labour mp,s are talking of losing up to 40 seats due to their stand on brexit to the tories.I could see the lib/dems getting more seats than labour though as they are very close in the polls now. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"! Even if they get the legislation it will lead to a GE the tories are ahead in the polls and even labour mp,s are talking of losing up to 40 seats due to their stand on brexit to the tories.I could see the lib/dems getting more seats than labour though as they are very close in the polls now. "
if they are going to make up 40 seats on labour in the north.... they are going to lose every single seat they have in scotland to the SNP..... and would also lose a lot of seats in the south and south west to the lib dems.....
the more likely option is even if the tories did end up with the most seats, there would likely be some sort of labour/snp/lib dem working arrangement that would see corbyn in number 10.... |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"! Even if they get the legislation it will lead to a GE the tories are ahead in the polls and even labour mp,s are talking of losing up to 40 seats due to their stand on brexit to the tories.I could see the lib/dems getting more seats than labour though as they are very close in the polls now.
if they are going to make up 40 seats on labour in the north.... they are going to lose every single seat they have in scotland to the SNP..... and would also lose a lot of seats in the south and south west to the lib dems.....
the more likely option is even if the tories did end up with the most seats, there would likely be some sort of labour/snp/lib dem working arrangement that would see corbyn in number 10...."
More in the midlands than the north i think you will find.I also disagree that they will lose all 13 seats in scotland. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"! Even if they get the legislation it will lead to a GE the tories are ahead in the polls and even labour mp,s are talking of losing up to 40 seats due to their stand on brexit to the tories.I could see the lib/dems getting more seats than labour though as they are very close in the polls now.
if they are going to make up 40 seats on labour in the north.... they are going to lose every single seat they have in scotland to the SNP..... and would also lose a lot of seats in the south and south west to the lib dems.....
the more likely option is even if the tories did end up with the most seats, there would likely be some sort of labour/snp/lib dem working arrangement that would see corbyn in number 10...."
With the SNP demanding Trident be taken out of Scotland, in return for their support.
Gives JC the perfect excuse to scrap it, something he will probably do pretty quickly anyway. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If we do end up having a general election it will be leave vrs remain. Boris and Nigel will join forces the libs and greens will join forces and Corbyn will still be sat on the fence x |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Not a hope.
The only thing the SNP want from any pact is a second independence referendum at a time of their choosing.
Possession being 9/10ths of the law, Trident becomes a huge bargaining chip in the event of a Yes vote.
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
""“the gravest abuse of power and attack upon UK constitutional principle in living memory”."
My opinion is, the vote we held 3 years ago was democratic, and a majority voted to leave.
The government attempted to get the agreed deal through parliament...and failed, not once, not twice, but 3 times, meaning the deal as it stands is just not acceptable to the House of Commons.
The current leader of the government has said therefore that we need to re-negotiate it, and then get that through, or leave with no deal.
He is trying to avoid dickheads like Corbyn and the others from derailing that process....which is far more of an "attack upon UK constitutional principle" than what Johnson is trying to do.
What's democratic about closing down parliament? We were told Brexit was about sovereignty: parliament is sovereign but apparently only when it suits the fat oaf
And what's democratic about trying to undermine a freely held, democratic vote by any means necessary?
They aren't interested in what the result of the referendum was, they are only interested in getting the result they wanted... Britain to remain in the EU, and they will happily ditch their previously held differences in order to do it.
They're trying to stop No Deal, not stop Brexit. what ian blackford and jo swinton? you must be living on a different planet of course they are trying to stop brexit."
Well, Jeremy Corbyn has the backing of all of his Labour MPs, Plaid, the SNP, the Greens and some Tories.
The only parties opposed are the Lib Dems and ChangeUK....
Maybe the Lib Dems are finally standing up for the 30% of lib Dems voters who voted leave.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's all crap it doesn't matter what deal we come back with, labour will vote it down. It's nothing to do with best for the UK, it's about the left getting in to power anyway they can. So no deal it is, better than corbyn. |
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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago
Huddersfield /derby cinemas |
"It's all crap it doesn't matter what deal we come back with, labour will vote it down. It's nothing to do with best for the UK, it's about the left getting in to power anyway they can. So no deal it is, better than corbyn. "
. If every Labour MP voted against a deal and were joined by every other opposition MP ,, they would not be able to stop a deal ,, because the conservatives ( along with their tax-payer funded DUP allies ) have a majority in The House Of Commons ,, so it is not Labour who are stopping ( or have stopped ) a deal ,,, it is the Conservative Party ,, whose absolute abject incompetence in calling a yes/no referendum without any plan what-so-ever how to proceed if we voted leave has shown them up for actually not having the long term economic plan they used to say they had
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It's a good way to sort the wheat from the chaff. People find many things so easy to say but they are better evaluated on what they actually do.
Sovereignty is very important to many, especially that of parliament. Precedence and protocol are important elements of parliament and the Opposition party and Leader of the Opposition have both responsibilities and a positional power that other parties and leaders don't have. Ensuring that parliament works effectively, at times of national crisis, is clearly smart and in the interests of the country and its people.
Sustaining a trajectory solely because it had been a requirement in the past, is insufficient cause to continue with it, when intelligence directs us to reroute. It's more so important when the population and the country are deeply divided, member states wanting the opposite and the earlier end point will also probably result in deaths. The opposition should focus their power and resources to curtail a Prime Minister imposing intolerable damage - in fact, all elected politicians should do this, including via their support and collaboration with the Leader of the Opposition, whoever that is. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Oh god..... we had a vote... we voted out!
The EU will do everything in its power not to make it easy, as otherwise we wont be the last to leave!
sweet baby jesus, we would have been out if those conservative party mp's had agreed to mays deal!!!
and yet you still want to blame the EU...ffs! "
Fucking idiocy isn't it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So are you happy that you was given a vote that the democratically elected representatives said they would honour and now wont?
1) they said they would honour it WITH a deal...
2) I seem to remember that over half of the conservative party did not vote for the deal agreed.....
so when did a "no deal" brexit become the default position?
were we not told a norway deal, or a canada deal, or a swiss deal...... we were told those by farage and his ilk though the whole campaign....
you wanted to "take back control"....
you wanted parliament to be sovereign....
the british supreme court decided that parliament was sovereign!!!
well this is what it looks like.....
The biggest problem was that May took "No Deal" off the table, and weakened our hand massively.
I think if she hadn't done that, we might have got a better deal. Big mistake letting a soft remainer lead the negotiations."
So first you blame the EU now the UK Government, make your mind up |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Oh god..... we had a vote... we voted out!
The EU will do everything in its power not to make it easy, as otherwise we wont be the last to leave!
sweet baby jesus, we would have been out if those conservative party mp's had agreed to mays deal!!!
and yet you still want to blame the EU...ffs!
The deal she agreed was shit.
As proved by the fact that it was voted down 3 times."
The deal was BREXIT, so if you think it was shit then you agree BREXIT is shit |
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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago
Huddersfield /derby cinemas |
"
Oh god..... we had a vote... we voted out!
The EU will do everything in its power not to make it easy, as otherwise we wont be the last to leave!
sweet baby jesus, we would have been out if those conservative party mp's had agreed to mays deal!!!
and yet you still want to blame the EU...ffs!
Fucking idiocy isn't it "
. It's actually quite staggering , we are blaming the EU because we can't get a deal passed through our Parliament despite our current prime minister voting against AND for the deal that the previous Prime Minister agreed that he didn't like but voted for ...... And Labour / Lib Dems / SNP / Greens / Plaid are also blamed despite the tories having a majority in House Of Commons ,,,,, if this wasn't so serious it would actually be quite funny |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It all comes back to what the politicians want and not the best interests of the "people" x"
I honestly think the politicians are trying to put the peoples best interests first but Brexit and people's best interests don't necessarily go hand in hand. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Oh god..... we had a vote... we voted out!
The EU will do everything in its power not to make it easy, as otherwise we wont be the last to leave!
sweet baby jesus, we would have been out if those conservative party mp's had agreed to mays deal!!!
and yet you still want to blame the EU...ffs!
Fucking idiocy isn't it .
It's actually quite staggering , we are blaming the EU because we can't get a deal passed through our Parliament despite our current prime minister voting against AND for the deal that the previous Prime Minister agreed that he didn't like but voted for ...... And Labour / Lib Dems / SNP / Greens / Plaid are also blamed despite the tories having a majority in House Of Commons ,,,,, if this wasn't so serious it would actually be quite funny "
I know.
It's many peoples default response to blame the other side regardless of the situation. |
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"Would this be the same Chakrabati who could not find evidence of anti-Semitism in the Labour party.... and then suddenly got a peerage?
I wouldn't trust her to give me legal advice on a parking ticket. she is a barrister......
Yes, she is.... a barrister who couldn't find anti-semetism in the Labour Party, which is a bit like me walking on a grass field, and then saying I couldn't find any blades of grass!
You didn't read the report did you? She found that anti semitism wasn't endemic (she didn't say it didn't exist) and made 20 (I think) recommendations for dealing with racism and anti semitism in the party
Well, the report was described by more than one source as a "whitewash", so I guess I don't need to read it. Her recommendations don't seem to have been acted upon, in fact things seem to have got worse after her "report", not better, almost like some people within the Labour Party felt that they could get away with even more."
So you didn't read it, rely on second hand non objective analysis of the report and then use that to take cheap shots at the author when she gives a professional opinion of a legal matter. Don't you see how that makes your opinion look? |
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""“the gravest abuse of power and attack upon UK constitutional principle in living memory”."
My opinion is, the vote we held 3 years ago was democratic, and a majority voted to leave.
The government attempted to get the agreed deal through parliament...and failed, not once, not twice, but 3 times, meaning the deal as it stands is just not acceptable to the House of Commons.
The current leader of the government has said therefore that we need to re-negotiate it, and then get that through, or leave with no deal.
He is trying to avoid dickheads like Corbyn and the others from derailing that process....which is far more of an "attack upon UK constitutional principle" than what Johnson is trying to do.
What's democratic about closing down parliament? We were told Brexit was about sovereignty: parliament is sovereign but apparently only when it suits the fat oaf
And what's democratic about trying to undermine a freely held, democratic vote by any means necessary?
They aren't interested in what the result of the referendum was, they are only interested in getting the result they wanted... Britain to remain in the EU, and they will happily ditch their previously held differences in order to do it.
They're trying to stop No Deal, not stop Brexit. what ian blackford and jo swinton? you must be living on a different planet of course they are trying to stop brexit."
The point of the alliance is to stop no deal. What each leader wants to happen thereafter is different or hadn't you noticed that there were significant political differences across the 6? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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At the risk of revisting an old argument yet again, any experienced negotiator will tell you that you always retain the option of walking away.
Corbyn et al have been told this repeatedly, that taking 'no deal' off the table weakens our negotiating position, but still they refuse to accept facts.
Corbyn couldn't care less what happens with brexit - all he's bothered about is getting into no. 10 - by any means necessary |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Corbyn couldn't care less what happens with brexit - all he's bothered about is getting into no. 10 - by any means necessary"
Many think that of Boris  |
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
"I'm still hopeful that we can avoid a "No Deal" Brexit, but having the loons loose in Parliament only gives the EU hope that they don't have to move on the terms of the deal, almost like May taking "No Deal" off the table, which I think led to the position we are in now.
So long as there is the slightest risk of no deal exit, I feel the UK has a little bit of leverage towards re-negotiations."
In simple terms the best deal you will ever get on a new car will be the one offered as your hand reaches for the door. Don't lift your bum of the seat in the salesmans office & you'll get nothing.
S |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm still hopeful that we can avoid a "No Deal" Brexit, but having the loons loose in Parliament only gives the EU hope that they don't have to move on the terms of the deal, almost like May taking "No Deal" off the table, which I think led to the position we are in now.
So long as there is the slightest risk of no deal exit, I feel the UK has a little bit of leverage towards re-negotiations.
In simple terms the best deal you will ever get on a new car will be the one offered as your hand reaches for the door. Don't lift your bum of the seat in the salesmans office & you'll get nothing.
S"
I know what you're saying but this kind of negotiation cannot be compared to buying a car.
If you walk out without buying the car then your circumstances have not changed one single bit.
A better example would be with a leasing company. You've already leased your car, you need your car but you want another car for less money.
Then because you can't get a better car for the same or less money to lease you throw your current lease car back at them and say "I'll fucking walk instead but you'll suffer more than I will" |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Yes, this analogy about buying a car or a house is bogus.
We already live in the house, we want to leave it but keep a right to visit whenever we want.
Yes, we can just walk away and build ourselves something else from scratch. Might take a few years, though
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You need a leader who wants what's best for the country, not someone quoting they have a democratic mandate to do whatever the fuck they want. When the result was close and it's a generational polar change in strategy, compromise is the best choice for the country.... Either extreme (no deal or stay with no change) will and up being divisive, and dominate your politics for years to come.
In my opinion you have 3 categories of people. Those who definitely want to go, those who definitely want to stay, and those who want to significantly reshape your relationship with the EU. The third choice is the best compromise to me.... May tried to do this but her failure was that she couldn't sell her vision well enough.
You want to keep some things, get rid of some things and change some things. This is the real negotiation. It's not a car dealership where you have 50 options to buy from, and you threaten to walk to get a better deal. Everyone wants a deal of some sort. The EU and the UK will end up with a deal of sorts, whether now or later. The fact of the matter is that if you leave with no deal, this actually weakens your negotiating position.
If I was the UK PM, I would think the trump card that I have is that the EU desperately want you to stay. You could use this to completely take away the bits of EU membership that are unpopular, with the potential offer to the EU that if they did what the UK wants, that this could them be put to the people again. There is enough interest from the UK people in this issue to get involved in a real public consultation process to inform this, which could be truly democratic (as opposed to the simplistic yes/no but no one knows what this means as in the first referendum.)
I think this is the path to try to bring the country together in the issue, as opposed to it being a divisive issue that could really damage the country over the next years |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"You need a leader who wants what's best for the country, not someone quoting they have a democratic mandate to do whatever the fuck they want. When the result was close and it's a generational polar change in strategy, compromise is the best choice for the country.... Either extreme (no deal or stay with no change) will and up being divisive, and dominate your politics for years to come.
In my opinion you have 3 categories of people. Those who definitely want to go, those who definitely want to stay, and those who want to significantly reshape your relationship with the EU. The third choice is the best compromise to me.... May tried to do this but her failure was that she couldn't sell her vision well enough.
You want to keep some things, get rid of some things and change some things. This is the real negotiation. It's not a car dealership where you have 50 options to buy from, and you threaten to walk to get a better deal. Everyone wants a deal of some sort. The EU and the UK will end up with a deal of sorts, whether now or later. The fact of the matter is that if you leave with no deal, this actually weakens your negotiating position.
If I was the UK PM, I would think the trump card that I have is that the EU desperately want you to stay. You could use this to completely take away the bits of EU membership that are unpopular, with the potential offer to the EU that if they did what the UK wants, that this could them be put to the people again. There is enough interest from the UK people in this issue to get involved in a real public consultation process to inform this, which could be truly democratic (as opposed to the simplistic yes/no but no one knows what this means as in the first referendum.)
I think this is the path to try to bring the country together in the issue, as opposed to it being a divisive issue that could really damage the country over the next years"
The option of "Remain but with reform" should have been on the ballot paper.
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The UK Government alone did not have the power to reform the EU, so it would not have been a legitimate question (unless asked Europe-wide).
Cameron tried to sell Remain as an endorsement of the reforms he had secured for the UK's relationship. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As we're going down shit analogy routes.
Brexit is when your mates Nigel and Boris say we should stop going to the usual nightclub because the tickets are too expensive and go somewhere else instead.
You then realise they don't know have any idea of where to go instead and you're all arguing at the kebab van who's fault this is, and the only option is fast becoming going to the offy and buying the booze at inflated prices. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think trying to reform an organisation when you are battling against a lot of members who like things the way they are because they do quite nicely out of it is an uphill struggle.
I don’t see how you can be half in and out just like you can’t be a part time member of a cash and carry |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"The UK Government alone did not have the power to reform the EU, so it would not have been a legitimate question (unless asked Europe-wide).
Cameron tried to sell Remain as an endorsement of the reforms he had secured for the UK's relationship."
The UK Government could have pressed for reform. I think its a given that the EU needs it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The UK Government alone did not have the power to reform the EU, so it would not have been a legitimate question (unless asked Europe-wide).
Cameron tried to sell Remain as an endorsement of the reforms he had secured for the UK's relationship.
The UK Government could have pressed for reform. I think its a given that the EU needs it. "
I'm sure I will be corrected, but I thought many of the euro sceptic parties in the EU elections are seeking reform... Rather than full on exiting. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"I think trying to reform an organisation when you are battling against a lot of members who like things the way they are because they do quite nicely out of it is an uphill struggle.
I don’t see how you can be half in and out just like you can’t be a part time member of a cash and carry "
The UK has acted like a brake on the EU, because it has never been enthusiastic about ever closer union. That brake is being removed. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The UK Government alone did not have the power to reform the EU, so it would not have been a legitimate question (unless asked Europe-wide).
Cameron tried to sell Remain as an endorsement of the reforms he had secured for the UK's relationship.
The UK Government could have pressed for reform. I think its a given that the EU needs it.
I'm sure I will be corrected, but I thought many of the euro sceptic parties in the EU elections are seeking reform... Rather than full on exiting. "
Aren't they all like ukip. They get MEPs elected to don't show up and just bitch and moan about everything? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
I'm sure I will be corrected, but I thought many of the euro sceptic parties in the EU elections are seeking reform... Rather than full on exiting. "
I think that is right.
Not that the UK will have influence on its reform now.
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"Would this be the same Chakrabati who could not find evidence of anti-Semitism in the Labour party.... and then suddenly got a peerage?
I wouldn't trust her to give me legal advice on a parking ticket. she is a barrister......
Yes, she is.... a barrister who couldn't find anti-semetism in the Labour Party, which is a bit like me walking on a grass field, and then saying I couldn't find any blades of grass!
You didn't read the report did you? She found that anti semitism wasn't endemic (she didn't say it didn't exist) and made 20 (I think) recommendations for dealing with racism and anti semitism in the party
Well, the report was described by more than one source as a "whitewash", so I guess I don't need to read it. Her recommendations don't seem to have been acted upon, in fact things seem to have got worse after her "report", not better, almost like some people within the Labour Party felt that they could get away with even more.
So you didn't read it, rely on second hand non objective analysis of the report and then use that to take cheap shots at the author when she gives a professional opinion of a legal matter. Don't you see how that makes your opinion look?"
Opinions are like arseholes, everyone had one.
Question...given the multitude of complaints about anti-semetism raised from people within the Labour party, some of which go back years, isn't it obvious that, at best, she glossed over the evidence, and at worst ignored it?
The "secondhand non objective analysis" came from a number of prominent legal minds, you couldn't miss it bearing in mind it was all over the news of the day, many of whom are as qualified, or more qualified, than her. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Is doomed from the start?
Corbyn wants to be a "caretaker" pm for a short term, presumably declaring sn election afterwards.
But the likes of jo swinton doesn't want corbyn in no.10, is this jealousy and wanting to be pm herself?
"
Ken Clarke could be a better choice. |
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