FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > yellowhammer

yellowhammer

By *abio OP Man over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

if anyone screams "project fear" in talk of the 'project Yellowhammer' document leaked in that communinist rag... the sunday times today, can please remind them this:

this document leaked today was commission by Bojo's brexiteer vote leave government! its what those hard brexiteers asked for......

it is NOT the same document that leaked under TM! it was recommissioned....

it gives out a lot of the same info because would you believe there were a lot of brexiteer mps who thought that civil service people were not doing there jobs and thought they were lying.......plus some new bits of updated scenarios

so, what point is project fear not project fear anymore..... if the bojo administration and now having the face the stark realities of a no deal exit in a document made and produced in conjunction with a lot of johnson allies

so... do we finally get people taking their heads out of their sands and looks at the reality of what may happen in 80-odd days...

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By *abio OP Man over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

just so that leavers know... this report was produced and compiled for the Bojo Government by those two well known "pinko liberals".... ian duncan smith, and owen paterson!..

so.... here is the report (in conjunction with the sunday times....)

BASE SCENARIO

When the UK ceases to be a member of the European Union in October 2019, all rights and reciprocal arrangements with the EU end.

? The UK reverts fully to “third country” status. The relationship between the UK and the European Union as a whole is unsympathetic, with many member states (under pressure from the European Commission) unwilling to engage bilaterally and implementing protections unilaterally, though some member states may be more understanding.

? No bilateral deals have been concluded with individual member states, with the exception of the reciprocal agreement on social security co-ordination with the Republic of Ireland. EU citizens living in the UK can retain broadly all rights and status that they were entitled before the UK’s exit from the EU, at the point of exit.

? Public and business readiness for no-deal will remain at a low level, and will decrease to lower levels, because the absence of a clear decision on the form of EU Exit (customs union, no deal etc) does not provide a concrete situation for third parties to prepare for. Readiness will be further limited by increasing EU Exit fatigue caused by the second extension of article 50.

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By *abio OP Man over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

? Business readiness will not be uniform – in general large businesses that work across sectors are likely to have better developed counting plans than small and medium-size businesses. Business readiness will be compounded by seasonal effects and factors such as warehouse availability.

? Private sector companies’ behaviour will be governed by commercial considerations, unless they are influenced otherwise.

? Her Majesty’s government will act in accordance with the rule of law, including by identifying the powers it is using to take specific actions.

?Risks associated with autumn and winter, such as severe weather, flooding and seasonal flu, could exacerbate any effects and stretch the resources of partners and responders.

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By *abio OP Man over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

KEY PLANNING ASSUMPTIONS

Exit day

For the purpose of freight flow and traffic management, as October 31 is a Thursday, Day 1 of Exit is now on a Friday rather than the weekend, which is not to our advantage. Exit Day may coincide with the half-term holiday, which varies across the UK.

Member states

In a small number of instances where the impacts of Brexit would be felt negatively in the EU as well as in the UK, member states may act in a way that could benefit the UK.

Channel ports

France will impose EU mandatory controls on UK goods on Day 1 of No Deal and has built infrastructure and IT systems to manage and process customs declarations and to support a risk-based control regime. On Day 1 of No Deal, 50%-85% of HGVs travelling via the short straits may not be ready for French customs. The lack of trader readiness combined with limited space in French ports to hold “unready” HGVs could reduce the flow rate to 40%-60% of current levels within one day.

The worst disruption to the short Channel crossings might last 3 months before flow rates rise to about 50%-70% (as more traders get prepared), although disruption could continue much longer. In the event of serious disruption, the French might act to ensure some flow through the short Channel crossings.

Disruption to Channel flow would also cause significant queues in Kent and delays to HGVs attempting to use the routes to travel to France. In a reasonable worst-case scenario, HGVs could face a maximum delay of 1½-2½ days before being able to cross the border. HGVs caught up in congestion in the UK will be unable to return to the EU to collect another load and some logistics firms may decide to avoid the route. Analysis to date has suggested a low risk of significant sustained queues at ports outside Kent that have high volumes of EU traffic, but the Border Delivery Group will continue to work directly with stakeholders at those ports to support planning readiness.

Border checks

UK citizens travelling to and from the EU may be subject to increased immigration checks at border posts. This may lead to passenger delays at St Pancras, Cheriton (Channel tunnel) and Dover, where border controls are juxtaposed. Depending on what plans EU member states put in place to cope with these increased immigration checks, it is likely delays will occur for UK arrivals and departures at EU airports and ports. This could cause some disruption on transport services. Travellers may decide to use alternative routes to complete their journey.

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By *abio OP Man over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Drugs and disease

i) The Border Delivery Group/Department for Transport planning assumption on reduced flow rates describes a pre-mitigation reasonable worst-case flow rate that could be as low as 40% on Day 1 of No Deal via the short straits [main Channel crossings], with significant disruption lasting up to six months. Unmitigated, this will have an impact on the supply of medicines and medical supplies.

Supply chains for medicines and medical products rely heavily on the short straits, which makes them particularly vulnerable to severe delays: three-quarters of medicines come via the short straits. Supply chains are also highly regulated and require transportation that meets strict Good Distribution Practices. This can include limits on transit times and temperature-controlled conditions. While some products can be stockpiled, others cannot because of short shelf lives. It will not be practical to stockpile six months’ supplies. The Department for Health and Social Care is developing a multi-layered approach to mitigate these risks.

ii) Any disruption that reduces, delays or stops the supply of medicines for UK veterinary use would reduce our ability to prevent and control disease outbreaks, with potential harm to animal health and welfare, the environment and wider food safety and availability, as well as, in the case of zoonotic diseases, posing a risk to human health. Industry stockpiling will not be able to match the 4-12 weeks’ stockpiling that took place in March 2019. Air freight capacity and the special import scheme are not a financially viable way to mitigate risks associated with veterinary medicine availability issues.

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By *abio OP Man over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Food and water

i) Certain types of fresh food supply will decrease. Critical elements of the food supply chain (such as ingredients, chemicals and packaging) may be in short supply. In combination, these two factors will not cause an overall shortage of food in the UK but will reduce availability and choice and increase the price, which will affect vulnerable groups. The UK growing season will have come to an end, so the agri-food supply chain will be under increased pressure for food retailers. Government will not be able to fully anticipate all effects on the agri-food supply chain. There is a risk that panic buying will disrupt food supplies.

ii) Public water services are likely to remain largely unaffected, thanks to actions now being taken by water companies. The most significant single risk is a failure in the chemicals supply chain. The likelihood of this is considered low, and the impact is likely to be local, affecting only hundreds of thousands of people. Water companies are well prepared for any disruption: they have significant stocks of all critical chemicals, extensive monitoring of their chemicals supply chains (including transport and deliveries) and sharing agreements in place. In the event of a supply chain failure, or the need to respond rapidly to other water supply incidents, urgent action may need to be taken to make sure people continue to have access to clean water.

Law and order

Law enforcement data and information-sharing between the UK and the EU will be disrupted.

Financial services and insurance

Some cross-border UK financial services will be disrupted. A small minority of insurance payments from UK insurers into the EU may be delayed.

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By *abio OP Man over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Data

The EU will not have made a data decision with regard to the UK before exit. This will disrupt the flow of personal data from the EU, where an alternative legal basis for transfer is not in place. In no-deal, an adequacy assessment could take years.

Fuel

Traffic disruption caused by border delays could affect fuel distribution in the local area, particularly if traffic queues In Kent block the Dartford crossing, which would disrupt fuel supply in London and the southeast. Customer behaviour could lead to shortages in other parts of the country.

Tariffs make UK petrol exports to the EU uncompetitive. Industry had plans to mitigate the impact on refinery margins and profitability, but UK government policy to set petrol import tariffs at 0% inadvertently undermines these plans. This leads to big financial losses and the closure of two refineries (which are converted to import terminals) with about 2,000 direct job losses. Resulting strike action at refineries would lead to disruptions to fuel availability for 1-2 weeks in the regions they directly supply. Government analysis of the impact of no-deal on refineries continues.

Northern Ireland

On Day 1 of No Deal, Her Majesty’s government will activate the “no new checks with limited exceptions” model announced on March 13, establishing a legislative framework and essential operations and system on the ground, to avoid an immediate risk of a return to a hard border on the UK side.

The model is likely to prove unsustainable because of economic, legal and biosecurity risks. With the UK becoming a “third [non-EU] country”, the automatic application of EU tariffs and regulatory requirements for goods entering Ireland will severely disrupt trade. The expectation is that some businesses will stop trading or relocate to avoid either paying tariffs that will make them uncompetitive or trading illegally; others will continue to trade but will experience higher costs that may be passed on to consumers. The agri-food sector will be hardest hit, given its reliance on complicated cross-border supply chains and the high tariff and non-tariff barriers to trade.

Disruption to key sectors and job losses are likely to result in protests and direct action with road blockades. Price and other differentials are likely to lead to the growth of the illegitimate economy. This will be particularly severe in border communities where criminal and dissident groups already operate with greater freedom. Given the tariff and non-tariff barriers to trade, there will be pressure to agree new arrangements to supersede the Day 1 model within days or weeks.

Energy supplies

Demand for energy will be met, and there will be no disruption to electricity or gas interconnectors. In Northern Ireland there will not be immediate disruption to electricity supply on Day 1. A rapid split of SEM could occur months or years after the EU Exit. In this event there would not be issues about security of supply. However, there will probably be marked price rises for electricity customers (business and domestic), with associated wider economic and political effects. Some participants could exit the market, exacerbating economic and political effects.

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By *abio OP Man over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Gibraltar

Because of the imposition of checks at its border with Spain (and the knock-on effect of delays from the UK to the EU), Gibraltar will see disruption to the supply of goods (including food and medicines) and to shipments of waste, plus delays of four-plus hours for at least a few months in the movement of frontier workers, residents and tourists across the border.

Prolonged border delays over the longer term are likely to harm Gibraltar’s economy. As on the UK mainland, cross-border services and data flow will be disrupted. Despite the time extension to the UK’s exit from the EU, Gibraltar has still not taken the decisions to invest in contingency infrastructure (such as port adjustments and waste management equipment) and there are still concerns that Gibraltar will not have passed all necessary legislation for no-deal, opening up legal risks mainly for the government of Gibraltar. Gibraltar continues to plan for less significant border delays than in our Yellowhammer scenario. Crown dependencies may be affected by supply chain disruption.

Brits in Europe

i) UK nationals will lose their EU citizenship and can expect to lose associated rights and access to services over time, or be required to access them on a different basis. All member states have now published legislative proposals, but not all have passed legislation to secure all rights for UK nationals.

There is a mixed picture across member states in terms of the level of generosity and detail in the legislation. In some member states, UK nationals need to take action now. Complex administrative procedures within member states, language barriers and uncertainty regarding the UK political situation are contributing to some UK nationals being slow to take action. Demands for help on Her Majesty’s government will increase significantly, including an increase in consular inquiries and more complex and time-consuming consular assistance cases for vulnerable UK nationals.

Cross-government support, including continued close engagement and clear communications from UK government departments and the departmental agencies, will be needed to help manage the demand.

ii) An EU member state would continue to pay a pension it currently pays to a UK national living in the EU.

iii) The commission and individual member states do not agree to extend the current healthcare arrangements for UK state pensioners and tourists beyond October 31, 2019, and refuse offers by the UK to fund treatments. Member states take no further action to guarantee healthcare for UK nationals and treat them in the same way as the other “third country” nationals. UK pensioners, workers, travellers and students will need to access healthcare in different ways, depending on the country. Healthcare systems may require people to demonstrate residency and current or previous employment, to enter a social insurance scheme or to purchase private insurance. Member states should treat people with urgent needs but may require them to pay after the fact. There is a risk of disruption for patients, and a minority could face substantial costs.

Protests and police

Protests and counter-protests will take place across the UK, using up police resources. There may also be a rise in public disorder and community tensions.

Fishing

Up to 282 EU and European Economic Area nations’ fishing vessels could enter illegally or are already fishing in UK waters: up to 129 vessels in English waters, 100 in Scottish waters, 40 in Welsh waters and 13 in Northern Irish waters on Day 1. This is likely to cause anger and frustration in the UK catching sector, which could lead to clashes between fishing vessels and an increase in non-compliance in the domestic fleet.

Competing demands on UK government and maritime departmental agencies and their assets could put enforcement and response capabilities at risk, especially in the event of illegal fishing, border violations (smuggling and illegal migration) and any disorder or criminality arising as a result, eg violent disputes or blockading of ports.

The poor

Low-income groups will be disproportionately affected by rises in the price of food and fuel.

Social care

There is an assumption that there will be no big changes in adult social care on the day after EU Exit. The adult social care market is already fragile because of the declining financial viability of providers.

An increase in inflation after the UK’s EU exit would affect providers of adult social care through increasing staff and supply costs, and might lead to failure within 2-3 months for smaller providers and 4-6 months for larger ones. There are also local risks — transport or staff disruption, severe winter weather or flu — that could exacerbate existing market fragility and that cumulatively could stretch the resources of providers and local authorities.

Intelligence will continue to be gathered to prepare for any effects on the sector, including closure of services and handing-back of contracts that are not part of the normal market function. In addition, by mid-August we will look at the status of preparations in four local authorities identified as concerns.

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By *nglishdoodMan over a year ago

Morristown

"Public water services are likely to remain largely unaffected...the impact is likely to be local, affecting only hundreds of thousands of people."

Oh well, that's ok then! Full steam ahead boys!

What a monumental cluster-fuck we've got ourselves into. Politicians routinely screw things up when the system is operating 'normally'; who really thinks they're capable of managing the country under these conditions?

While I generally understand the sentiment behind Brexit, I have no confidence in the government's (any party) ability to get us back on track within a decade. Our job as citizens will be to 'endure' while the political parties bicker and cock-block each other over the best way forward.

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

Our esteemed leader says the probability of exiting the EU without any agreement is 1,000,000-1.

Why would any business invest in new arrangements when the likelihood of needing them is infinitesimal?

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

Isn't there an even worse briefing called "Blackswan"?

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By *wisted999Man over a year ago

North Bucks

You could have just paraphrased it as “We’re fucked”

Would have saved a lot of copy and pasta.

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

We'll be short of pasta, too

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By *abio OP Man over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Isn't there an even worse briefing called "Blackswan"? "

yes...... yellowhammer is the "reasonable assumption" scenario.....

I would hate to see whats in "blackswan" if it was ever leaked.....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well timed leak in my opinion.

Boris is due to meet Angela and Macron next week and will put forward a bargaining position to them that if no deal happens the contagion of economic chaos that we are inflicting on ourselves will lead to severe loss of trade and a European recession. A sort of contagious "British disease", the "sick man of Europe" will catch the flu.

Some bargaining position eh, but guess is the last great hope of the brexiteers.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS over a year ago

Stockport

Just a few hundred thousand people with no clean water then. Riots. Food and medicine shortages. No petrol. Refineries closing down. Exodus of all sorts of businesses to other countries.

But it'll be well worth it because of all the benefits. Which are? Someone help me here.

Are brexiteers even still talking about benefits?

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan over a year ago

here

"Just a few hundred thousand people with no clean water then. Riots. Food and medicine shortages. No petrol. Refineries closing down. Exodus of all sorts of businesses to other countries. "

Try not to be too over dramatic

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS over a year ago

Stockport

"Just a few hundred thousand people with no clean water then. Riots. Food and medicine shortages. No petrol. Refineries closing down. Exodus of all sorts of businesses to other countries.

Try not to be too over dramatic

Not me being dramatic. That's all from bojo's own commissioned report on "reasonable" consequences.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS over a year ago

Stockport

I imagine that there must be another report, labelled absolute top secret, that gives an estimate of the number of deaths that will be directly attributable to a no-deal brexit. If there is no such report, then the government is negligent in it's planning. If there is such a report, then i hope that bojo et al are prepared for the manslaughter cases that will be brought when it is eventually ruled that the exit was forced against the wishes of parliament, and that the cabinet bear personal responsibility for the consequences.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan over a year ago

here

"Just a few hundred thousand people with no clean water then. Riots. Food and medicine shortages. No petrol. Refineries closing down. Exodus of all sorts of businesses to other countries.

Try not to be too over dramatic

Not me being dramatic. That's all from bojo's own commissioned report on "reasonable" consequences. "

Really????

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By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

[Removed by poster at 18/08/19 13:21:21]

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By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

What a load of negative crap,even if true does not matter WE ARE LEAVING.

Fabio and co you give all this forcasts but we should all be dealing with the job to be done after Brexit.

Leave and 5 years from now we will be the richest country in Europe assuming Corbyn or Mcdonald never take over this country as they are planning.

I use the word takeover as they cannot do it demorcratically I reckon.

Being negative is pointless yes be worried but we deal with it.

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By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

"I imagine that there must be another report, labelled absolute top secret, that gives an estimate of the number of deaths that will be directly attributable to a no-deal brexit. If there is no such report, then the government is negligent in it's planning. If there is such a report, then i hope that bojo et al are prepared for the manslaughter cases that will be brought when it is eventually ruled that the exit was forced against the wishes of parliament, and that the cabinet bear personal responsibility for the consequences."
bollocks

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Leave and 5 years from now we will be the richest country in Europe"

Ok, wow, the delusion has certainly set in, so please explain how in 5 years we'll go from a wreck to the richest in Europe.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan over a year ago

London

Leave and 5 years from now we will be the richest country in Europe

Ok, wow, the delusion has certainly set in, so please explain how in 5 years we'll go from a wreck to the richest in Europe."

Brexit is just pure religion at this point. You may as well ask how someone knows that they're going to heaven when they die.

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

It's not bollocks.

HMG is terrified of being blamed for any patient losing their life because of this policy.

That is why medicines are taking priority over any other goods coming into the country.

A bit of hardship and a lack of tomatoes on the supermarket shelf is one thing.

People dying needlessly is another.

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

Some bargaining position eh, but guess is the last great hope of the brexiteers."

What happened to all these cards that we held?

Have we played any yet?

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan over a year ago

here

“We are leaving the EU on 31st October.

The signing of this document means we will take back control of our laws on Brexit day”

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/brexit-secretary-signs-order-to-scrap-1972-brussels-act-ending-all-eu-law-in-the-uk

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

Sky News, I think it was, said this morning the Government estimates 85% of hauliers are not prepared for the WTO barriers that will appear in France on Nov 1.

Why should they? Johnson says the odds of it happening are a million to one.

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By *ore of thatMan over a year ago

skerries

Please get on with it and leave .What you want ...a medal .the world is not going to fall apart when your out

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

i saw the Energy Minister being interviewed.

He dismissed it as Project Fear and scaremongering.

A Government minister trashing his own government's advice because it does not match the narrative of the Brexit cult.

The lunatics really have taken over the asylum.

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple over a year ago

canterbury

Where is the delays at Dartford tunnel going to effect fuel delivery..

Bloody hell Dartford tunnel to Dover 60 odd miles ...now that is a backlog.

Total bollocks again

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

[Removed by poster at 18/08/19 14:31:59]

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

Total bollocks again"

Yes, it is. The PM has assured us the UK will not leave the EU without an agreement in place.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Zzzzzzzzzzzz.

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By *retty GoodMan over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

I call this thread “ project full of shit “

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan over a year ago

here

Except something that really has happened:

“We are leaving the EU on 31st October.

The signing of this document means we will take back control of our laws on Brexit day”

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/brexit-secretary-signs-order-to-scrap-1972-brussels-act-ending-all-eu-law-in-the-uk

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By *retty GoodMan over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

"I call this thread “ project full of shit “"

Sorry I mean the OP

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

"Except something that really has happened:

“We are leaving the EU on 31st October.

The signing of this document means we will take back control of our laws on Brexit day”

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/brexit-secretary-signs-order-to-scrap-1972-brussels-act-ending-all-eu-law-in-the-uk"

Yes, there is quite a bit of other paperwork that needs to come to Parliament to avoid the law being full of holes on November 1.

At some point, too, unless the DUP and Sinn Fein kiss and make up, they will need to impose direct rule on NI, too, so the civil service there can be empowered to put the necessary measures in place.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

It will be interesting to see how the logistics businesses, many working on very thin margins, sustain their abilities to continue operations, with much slower freight times and thus increased costs. Those costs will be very quickly passed on to consumers, whilst some of the logistics firms will presumably not be able to sustain their contractual obligations.

More than 10 years after the global recession, millions are still worse off, so fantasies of the UK being healthy in 5 years are based on ideological BS. No plan or reasonable explanation of how specifically this would be attained - it's so tragic some try to claim this

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"i saw the Energy Minister being interviewed.

He dismissed it as Project Fear and scaremongering.

A Government minister trashing his own government's advice because it does not match the narrative of the Brexit cult.

The lunatics really have taken over the asylum.

What happened to collective responsibility

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Zzzzzzzzzzzz. "

If the topic doesn't interest you then do the sensible thing and don't post

Simples really

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As no-deal rapidly approaches, and as usual parliament seem incapable of any form of cooperation that would stop it happening, I think arguing over the consequences is pointless because it won't be long before we actually find out whether it was all project fear or not.

If it was, then we can all breathe a collective sigh of relief.

If it wasn't, those who dragged us into this mess had better be prepared to face the inevitable backlash.

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By *abio OP Man over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

i think that it is interesting that some people have tried attacking me as the OP, when I haven't put in one single opinion in the thread....

playing the man and not the ball again...

actually i take that back... I mocking called the sunday times "communist"... and IDS and Owen Paterson "pinko's"....

So anyway... Michael gove has not said that what is in the alledged document is not true (so basically it is then......)

so i am now interested to know..... are Michael Gove, Ian Duncan Smith and Owen Paterson.... (2 hardline Brexiteers who are part of the ERG and a Cabinet Minster for the responsility of the project under the Boris Johnson Administration) are they all lying?...... what would they gain from lying when in 80 days they would get what they want?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Sorry but crap, the EU is made up of 27 countries.

So there's about a 100 other countries not in the EU, please tell me how many people in them countries are dying because they don't have access to the EU.

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

[Removed by poster at 18/08/19 17:06:54]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Quite possibly the people who will be most adversely affected by Brexit will be the people who voted for it. Well, hopefully anyway ...

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"Quite possibly the people who will be most adversely affected by Brexit will be the people who voted for it. Well, hopefully anyway ..."

Yes and it would appear that many remain in denial of the consequences because they have an overly simplistic view of it.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

"Sorry but crap, the EU is made up of 27 countries.

So there's about a 100 other countries not in the EU, please tell me how many people in them countries are dying because they don't have access to the EU. "

Probably a different topic for a new thread. Just the UK has this potential exit underway and with the issues identified by the full brexit politicians named by the op. UK supply, geography, logistics etc are unique, with decades old infrastructure and customs agreements about to change. New tariffs, new bureaucratic infrastructures and unreadiness for a million to one chance of leaving without a deal wet

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By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

Leave and 5 years from now we will be the richest country in Europe

Ok, wow, the delusion has certainly set in, so please explain how in 5 years we'll go from a wreck to the richest in Europe."
It will be easier to trade with us than the rest of Europe as we will have less red tape and lower tariffs.

Also the Eu will be under greater financial pressure because the Euro is a load of nonsense and other countries will go down the road of Greece.

There will be a very very big world recession and we will be more able to cope because we will be more flexible.

The Eu will probably have started to break up anyway,GB leaving will increase the possibility of this

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By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

"Quite possibly the people who will be most adversely affected by Brexit will be the people who voted for it. Well, hopefully anyway ..."
Very nasty

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

"Sorry but crap, the EU is made up of 27 countries.

So there's about a 100 other countries not in the EU, please tell me how many people in them countries are dying because they don't have access to the EU. "

40 years of stitching together, unpicked overnight.

A huge shock to the system.

The linkages between the UK and our neighbours are huge and stretch across just about every aspect of our lives.

All those, overnight, severed.

It's like yanking a drip out the arm of the patient in intensive care and hoping your god will find a miracle recovery.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Quite possibly the people who will be most adversely affected by Brexit will be the people who voted for it. Well, hopefully anyway ...Very nasty"

Agree, it will be x

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

All the things we take for granted - the electricity interconnectors, the police to police communication, the daily flows of goods, people, capital and services - all of that currently is possible because it is governed by a single set of rules.

All of these things have been facilitated by EU-wide legislation to remove the barriers between people and companies.

All governed by a single law book.

As of Nov 1, none of these arrangements apply to the UK because we are beyond the law of the single market.

We are a third country, like Russia or India.

So all the barriers we spent 50 years removing from our society, all the co-operative and sharing arrangements, be it security, be it trade, be it research, be it exchanges, all of those expire on October 31.

I crossed the border of the EU in July.

It is a wilderness.

In European terms, it is a wilderness.

That is where the UK is going.

The wilderness.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan over a year ago

here

These posts do make me laugh

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By *retty GoodMan over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

Can’t wait for Brexit to happen sooner the better, then hopefully all these boring moaning crying pretend know it all treads will stop

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

Welcome to the world of Billy, No Mates.

Brexit Britain.

Turning the clock back to 1970 something, everything since unpicked.

A big re-stitching job is needed.

I hope you are up for it.

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By *retty GoodMan over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

"Welcome to the world of Billy, No Mates.

Brexit Britain.

Turning the clock back to 1970 something, everything since unpicked.

A big re-stitching job is needed.

I hope you are up for it.

Well some things in the 70s were great

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

Let me give you an example.

Today, a police officer gets called to an incident.

He or she wants to run a check on the name.

So they radio the name to the controller and ask for a PNC check.

Automatically, without the officer even asking, that name is run through every police data base in Europe.

Or it could be a car reg.

Instant results. Europe wide.

As of Nov 1, that sharing of police databases ceases.

UK is a third country.

So we'll be no different from Russia or India making a request for information about an individual.

How many days do you think those requests take to process?

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By *retty GoodMan over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

"Let me give you an example.

Today, a police officer gets called to an incident.

He or she wants to run a check on the name.

So they radio the name to the controller and ask for a PNC check.

Automatically, without the officer even asking, that name is run through every police data base in Europe.

Or it could be a car reg.

Instant results. Europe wide.

As of Nov 1, that sharing of police databases ceases.

UK is a third country.

So we'll be no different from Russia or India making a request for information about an individual.

How many days do you think those requests take to process?"

Can’t wait, just can’t take all this crying and moaning anymore

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

yes, yes, it's all bollocks, the PM told us so.

we won't be leaving the EU without an agreement to that protects all the integration.

You'll get 500-1 on Kim Kardashian being the next president of the United States.

You'll get 700,000-1 on being crushed to death by a meteor.

The PM says this is 1,000,000-1.

So why is anyone worried at those odds?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Can’t wait, just can’t take all this crying and moaning anymore "

And what about the "crying and moaning" after we've left and the country is taking a turn for the worse, you think people are just going to shrug their shoulders and not say anything?

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan over a year ago

here

"Let me give you an example.

Today, a police officer gets called to an incident.

He or she wants to run a check on the name.

So they radio the name to the controller and ask for a PNC check.

Automatically, without the officer even asking, that name is run through every police data base in Europe.

Or it could be a car reg.

Instant results. Europe wide.

As of Nov 1, that sharing of police databases ceases.

UK is a third country.

So we'll be no different from Russia or India making a request for information about an individual.

How many days do you think those requests take to process?"

Why would a pnc check for a uk reg car need to go through all the European car reg databases ?

How often are non uk reg cars involved in incidents ?

If it’s lots then then oh shit we have a huge huge problem , otherwise it’s not an issue really

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Very nasty"

Isn't it what you voted for though? Why is hoping the effects of Brexit hits those who voted Brexit a nasty thing to say?

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By *retty GoodMan over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

"Can’t wait, just can’t take all this crying and moaning anymore

And what about the "crying and moaning" after we've left and the country is taking a turn for the worse, you think people are just going to shrug their shoulders and not say anything?"

Shit will you lot be still moaning still then ?

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By *retty GoodMan over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

"yes, yes, it's all bollocks, the PM told us so.

we won't be leaving the EU without an agreement to that protects all the integration.

You'll get 500-1 on Kim Kardashian being the next president of the United States.

You'll get 700,000-1 on being crushed to death by a meteor.

The PM says this is 1,000,000-1.

So why is anyone worried at those odds?"

Yawn

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

I have no idea how many foreign-registered cars are on UK roads.

I believe there is a Europe-wide rule that you must re-register with the host country if the vehicle is in the member state for longer than six months.

How many people do that?

I have no idea.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Shit will you lot be still moaning still then ? "

Boy are you naive, there will be plenty more "moaning" when shit finally happens and some of these situations become a reality, if you think we're moaning now by trying to prevent this then expect a huge increase when Brexit is done and the unicorn lies fade.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's okay, give has said this was gne old government which has been blocking preperation.

Which makes me think four things.

One, AFAIK he hasn't called it fake news etc. So this is a fair reflection of possible risks.

Two, this means it's likely these issues would have also been faced in March. Yet I don't recall these warnings and lead Brexiteers would have had us out by now.

Three, Gove reassures us there is now proper planning in place to prevent this. Yet a lot of this is our of our control, or at best partly in our control.

Four, that is a shed load of stuff to sort out in a few months. Are we meant to be confident that they can all be sorted... Especially if part of the no deal an is to porogue parliament (and so effectively stop or at least slow down pteoeration)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Sorry but crap, the EU is made up of 27 countries.

So there's about a 100 other countries not in the EU, please tell me how many people in them countries are dying because they don't have access to the EU.

40 years of stitching together, unpicked overnight.

A huge shock to the system.

The linkages between the UK and our neighbours are huge and stretch across just about every aspect of our lives.

All those, overnight, severed.

It's like yanking a drip out the arm of the patient in intensive care and hoping your god will find a miracle recovery.

"
It's shouldn't be like this we have had 3 year's to sort it out. And we can all blame both sides for getting us in this mess, playing politics hoping it would go away.

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By *retty GoodMan over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

"Shit will you lot be still moaning still then ?

Well you seem very confident almost 100% you will know exactly what will happen. I can only assume the way you know exactly what will happen is either you actually Mr Johnson and on a sex site or you have a time machine, please could you let me know which one it is please ?

Or maybe just maybe this is just your opinion and is based on a few articles and word of mouth.

Of course your opinion is as valid as everyone’s but please if your just guessing please tone down the crying and moaning a tad

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

It's shouldn't be like this we have had 3 year's to sort it out. And we can all blame both sides for getting us in this mess, playing politics hoping it would go away. "

"We are not making any plans for No Deal because we are going to get a great deal"

- Boris Johnson, 2017.

Cakeism.

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By *retty GoodMan over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

It's shouldn't be like this we have had 3 year's to sort it out. And we can all blame both sides for getting us in this mess, playing politics hoping it would go away.

"We are not making any plans for No Deal because we are going to get a great deal"

- Boris Johnson, 2017.

Cakeism.

Perfect

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Sorry but crap, the EU is made up of 27 countries.

So there's about a 100 other countries not in the EU, please tell me how many people in them countries are dying because they don't have access to the EU.

40 years of stitching together, unpicked overnight.

A huge shock to the system.

The linkages between the UK and our neighbours are huge and stretch across just about every aspect of our lives.

All those, overnight, severed.

It's like yanking a drip out the arm of the patient in intensive care and hoping your god will find a miracle recovery.

It's shouldn't be like this we have had 3 year's to sort it out. And we can all blame both sides for getting us in this mess, playing politics hoping it would go away. "

Prior to the referendum, we were told that it would take at least five years to leave the EU (and that would be with a competent government with a clear plan). So why are you surprised that it's taking a long time?

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"Shit will you lot be still moaning still then ?

Or maybe just maybe this is just your opinion and is based on a few articles and word of mouth.

Of course your opinion is as valid as everyone’s but please if your just guessing please tone down the crying and moaning a tad "

This report is a cabinet office report. The cabinet office of the Government. The best that is being said about it is that we are now more prepared than when it was written. Presumably because we now have a committed “no deal” Govt for the last three weeks and in that time they have prepared the country for its biggest economic shock since 1939.

I think people just need to look at this for what it is and question why we are seemingly so committed to this course of self harm.

Intelligent people would ask the question - “who gains from something like this? Who are the winners.”

I asked that question and the only answer I will gone here is that the winners will not be the people who were groomed into voting for this, nor will the United Kingdom benefit.

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By *retty GoodMan over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

"Shit will you lot be still moaning still then ?

Or maybe just maybe this is just your opinion and is based on a few articles and word of mouth.

Of course your opinion is as valid as everyone’s but please if your just guessing please tone down the crying and moaning a tad

I think people just need to look at this for what it is and question why we are seemingly so committed to this course of self harm.

Intelligent people would ask the question - “who gains from something like this? Who are the winners.”

I asked that question and the only answer I will gone here is that the winners will not be the people who were groomed into voting for this, nor will the United Kingdom benefit. "

The major floor to that statement was that you said that “ intelligent people would ask the question “

Then you said “ I asked that question “ so you can see where your comment fell down

And sure we voted for this a few years back didn’t we ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Sorry but crap, the EU is made up of 27 countries.

So there's about a 100 other countries not in the EU, please tell me how many people in them countries are dying because they don't have access to the EU.

40 years of stitching together, unpicked overnight.

A huge shock to the system.

The linkages between the UK and our neighbours are huge and stretch across just about every aspect of our lives.

All those, overnight, severed.

It's like yanking a drip out the arm of the patient in intensive care and hoping your god will find a miracle recovery.

It's shouldn't be like this we have had 3 year's to sort it out. And we can all blame both sides for getting us in this mess, playing politics hoping it would go away. "

This assumes brexit is just a really hard question which can be solved.

The way we've drawn red lines, it's like we have a jigsaw puzzle, have removed two pieces, added three from anither set, and now think all it needs is tike to solve....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Or maybe just maybe this is just your opinion and is based on a few articles and word of mouth."

This article is from our very own government about the most likely cases, are you saying the pro-Brexit Tories are lying now? Not to mention the police are being briefed on this happening and to prepare for things post-October.

But main point is, this current article is from our own government and was commissioned by Boris Johnson, you might have heard of him?

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan over a year ago

here

"Or maybe just maybe this is just your opinion and is based on a few articles and word of mouth.

But main point is, this current article is from our own government and was commissioned by Boris Johnson, you might have heard of him?"

Not what the officials are saying

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

Don't panic Captain Johnson, don't panic!

The odds of this going horribly wrong are a million to one.

Don't panic, don't panic!

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By *retty GoodMan over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

"Or maybe just maybe this is just your opinion and is based on a few articles and word of mouth.

But main point is, this current article is from our own government and was commissioned by Boris Johnson, you might have heard of him?"

O I thought it was deliberately leaked by a former minister, and a lot has changed since ???

I would imagine the police are being briefed on how to handle all the loonies post brexit, if they are this loony pre brexit I bet the government are scared stiff about the loonies

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"O I thought it was deliberately leaked by a former minister, and a lot has changed since ???

I would imagine the police are being briefed on how to handle all the loonies post brexit, if they are this loony pre brexit I bet the government are scared stiff about the loonies "

Ok, so let's be serious here, what would it take for you and other hardcore Brexiters to believe? It honestly feels like no matter who says it, you lot just brush it off, who needs to say these things for you to believe?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Or maybe just maybe this is just your opinion and is based on a few articles and word of mouth.

But main point is, this current article is from our own government and was commissioned by Boris Johnson, you might have heard of him?

O I thought it was deliberately leaked by a former minister, and a lot has changed since ???

I would imagine the police are being briefed on how to handle all the loonies post brexit, if they are this loony pre brexit I bet the government are scared stiff about the loonies "

Go through the list. Which bullets are ones the government can change?

Of these what is being done differently.

And when did anyone in the past six months say wait, we have a problem, here is what is needed, but we can't do stuff because the government is getting in the way.

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By *retty GoodMan over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

"O I thought it was deliberately leaked by a former minister, and a lot has changed since ???

I would imagine the police are being briefed on how to handle all the loonies post brexit, if they are this loony pre brexit I bet the government are scared stiff about the loonies

I will tell you who I believe and that the British public who had the option in a democratic vote.

Do you know what will happen ? ,,,,, NO

do I know what will happen ? ,,,,, NO

we had a choice and a voice and the majority spoke

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"O I thought it was deliberately leaked by a former minister, and a lot has changed since ???

I would imagine the police are being briefed on how to handle all the loonies post brexit, if they are this loony pre brexit I bet the government are scared stiff about the loonies

There's nothing anyone can say.

Three simple steps of denial.

Information = "project fear"

"Project fear" becomes reality.

Brexiteer excuses. IE, "we knew we'd be poorer". "It's all the fault of Remainers/The EU/Someone else".

There is no threshold of shitness that will have people admitting they were wrong. Simply because Brexit is about misguided ideologies and not about reality.

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By *retty GoodMan over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

"O I thought it was deliberately leaked by a former minister, and a lot has changed since ???

I would imagine the police are being briefed on how to handle all the loonies post brexit, if they are this loony pre brexit I bet the government are scared stiff about the loonies

There's nothing anyone can say.

Three simple steps of denial.

Information = "project fear"

"Project fear" becomes reality.

Brexiteer excuses. IE, "we knew we'd be poorer". "It's all the fault of Remainers/The EU/Someone else".

There is no threshold of shitness that will have people admitting they were wrong. Simply because Brexit is about misguided ideologies and not about reality.

I’m not making excuses and can’t see many others either, let get this thing done

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Just been reading that the report was found in a pub, says it all remainers at it again. Read some if you it they didn’t even talk to any ports but state they wouldn't cope, when asked why not said it wasn't in there remit. It all stinks of project fear.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"Just been reading that the report was found in a pub, says it all remainers at it again. Read some if you it they didn’t even talk to any ports but state they wouldn't cope, when asked why not said it wasn't in there remit. It all stinks of project fear."

You may well be correct and it may have been leaked by a TORY Minister of The Crown or one of their political staff.

But so what! The question should be:

IS IT TRUE?

And if true why are Ministers of The Crown (including the PM) attempting to play it down?

Further is there a more negative report? And if so why has that not been published?

Finally, if this all turns out to be true and people die because self-serving Tories in high Public Office misled the people of the UK because of ideological reasons and or self interest what should be their punishment?

Remember all these Tories who are telling us everything will be fine have transferred the bulk, if not all, their business assets and wealth to either offshore tax havens or to EU countries that are NOT leaving the EU or have free trade agreements with the EU.

For my part I would suggest that if it turns out that Tories have bet against the UK and are now engineering our economic destruction for their personal gain, then the death penalty should be reinstated and when found guilty they should all be publicly hanged in Parliament Sq..

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan over a year ago

here

You may well be correct and it may have been leaked by a TORY Minister of The Crown or one of their political staff.

But so what! The question should be:

IS IT TRUE?

And if true why are Ministers of The Crown (including the PM) attempting to play it down?

Further is there a more negative report? And if so why has that not been published?

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

Shock horror!

Question:

What do you think should happen to the Tory ministers who have deliberately enacted policies that have doubled the national debt in the last 9 years, doubling the wealth of the top 1% (their paymasters) while causing the income of the rest of us to stagnate or fall AND being directly responsible for the deaths of at least 130,000 people? What do you think should happen to the likes of Gove, JRM and the rest who claim there is nothing to worry about while transferring their business interests to Dublin if it turns out that brexit reignites the troubles and the republicans start bombing English cities? Have you considered that maybe the republicans heard BoJo's father and JRM say who cares if a few paddies kill one another? Its a price they are willing to pay for brexit. Do you think that there may be a slim possibility that those same republicans may choose to target places close to the hearts of brexit politicians? I have, and I think there is a high probability that is what they will do.

What do you think should be the punishment for these Tories if members of YOUR family die because medicines that should, are not available because of a no deal brexit or because law and order has broken down and they get caught up in the violence?

Do you think in those circumstances the fucks who caused a no deal brexit to enrich themselves by betting against the UK and using their political offices to push the hardest of hard brexits through should be able to retire to some tropical beach on their winnings or do you think that maybe your view will change if it is YOU and YOUR family that is directly effected?

Just asking, because I think too many people are living in hope that all will be OK and not considering the possibility that everything will not be OK...

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

The report is the likely result. Those who feign indifference to realistic hardship for millions, with chronic deterioration to lives, appear destined to fail.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"The report is the likely result. Those who feign indifference to realistic hardship for millions, with chronic deterioration to lives, appear destined to fail. "

I'm not sure you're right Sophie. I think there is at least an even chance that just as Germany was infected with nationalism by anti 'the other' propaganda in the 20's and 30's leading to WW2, we have been equally infected by decades of anti EU propaganda and we are set on a course that will destroy this countries economy. The question in my mind is will we avoid widespread civil unrest possibly degenerating into civil war.

I do find it quite ironic that we and the USA seem to have been victims of pretty much the same kind of external political destabilisation that we have been practising in the Middle East and Africa for the last half century or so.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan over a year ago

here

Shock horror!

Question:

Just asking, because I think too many people are living in hope that all will be OK and not considering the possibility that everything will not be OK..."

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By *estivalMan over a year ago

borehamwood

if republican or unionists start blowing shit up id like to think they would be treated like isis or any other terrotist organisation and be hunted down and wiped out.but sure peeps on here will call them freedom fighters and not terrorists lol

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By *ostafunMan over a year ago

near ipswich

Dont people know that they create these worse case scenario reports to see what they need to do to mitigate the liabilities? i would be worried if the government didn't produce these reports.

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

"if republican or unionists start blowing shit up id like to think they would be treated like isis or any other terrotist organisation and be hunted down and wiped out.but sure peeps on here will call them freedom fighters and not terrorists lol"

I read that MI5 had moved 500 agents into Northern Ireland in the run-up to March 29. Presumably will be repeated in the run-up to October 31.

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple over a year ago

canterbury

Greece ....what happened all gone quite...or is it that the great eu don't want to talk about it....Ps who is going to feed the eu money tree once we go ...Spain Portugal Greece Ireland or maybe some of the other scroungers of Europe...all take take take....I now wonder how long the Germans will put it once they fall into recession in the next quarter xx

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By *retty GoodMan over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

"The report is the likely result. Those who feign indifference to realistic hardship for millions, with chronic deterioration to lives, appear destined to fail.

Be careful mate, your bringing up Germany and world war 2, hide your feelings mate please don’t say it again. Fight your feelings

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple over a year ago

canterbury

Sorry ...put up with it

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By *limmatureguyMan over a year ago

Tonbridge

On the plus side, with the shock of brexit to the economy, we might finally start fracking properly for our own gas, instead of buying it from Russia and Norway. Then build some cheap gas fired power stations instead of paying through the nose for organic electricity.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"On the plus side, with the shock of brexit to the economy, we might finally start fracking properly for our own gas, instead of buying it from Russia and Norway. Then build some cheap gas fired power stations instead of paying through the nose for organic electricity. "

I can only assume this is a joke?

But sadly you will be right. As we start removing environmental protection provided by the EU, and as the oil companies pile more pressure on a weaker government, fracking and fossils fuel usage will rise.

We know that renewables are cheaper. But they don't get the same level of subsidies as the fossil fuel industry, and I can't see that getting any better.

It's all small fry though, when compared to the greenhouse gases emitted by the US whose commander in chief doesn't even know what science is.

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By *retty GoodMan over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

I can only assume this is a joke?

We know that renewables are cheaper. But they don't get the same level of subsidies as the fossil fuel industry, and I can't see that getting any better.

It's all small fry though, when compared to the greenhouse gases emitted by the US whose commander in chief doesn't even know what science is."

Do you need a tissue for all your crying mate ?

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

Let me start by pointing out that the English are the 'bad guys' and 'terrorists' when it comes to Ireland. Like it or not we have spent the last 450 years subjugating the native Irish (Catholic) population because of their religion. It speaks volumes that you think it is OK for one of our politicians to say if the cost of brexit is the deaths of Irish that's fine but as soon as it is suggested that it may be the deaths of English you are proposing the state murders any who oppose it's occupation of their country.

"Dont people know that they create these worse case scenario reports to see what they need to do to mitigate the liabilities? i would be worried if the government didn't produce these reports. "

As I understand it 'Yellowhammer' is not the worst case scenario, that is called 'Black Swan' I believe. Yellowhammer is probably the final (watered down) version of an original document giving details of the minimum disruption that a no deal brexit will cause after politicians and civil servants have changed will's for might's, definitely's for maybe's and 10's for 1's. Because that is what governments do with bad or unwanted news.

More shock and horror.

Well just for you...

It will all be fluffy bunnies, cute puppies and unicorns. You mustn't take any notice of this nasty man nothing bad ever happens in the world and we will all get to dance across the rainbow bridge into the promised land of brexit where the apples are redder the bananas are bendier, where the EU monster can no longer terrorise us by banning US hormone filled meat and sending us thousands of doctors and nursing staff to keep the NHS and our nursing homes functioning or plumbers to fix our leaking pipes.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan over a year ago

here

Dont people know that they create these worse case scenario reports to see what they need to do to mitigate the liabilities? i would be worried if the government didn't produce these reports.

More shock and horror.

Well just for you...

Does this stuff just roll of the page for you?

You wrote the worst case scenario document for theresa May didn’t you, but they rejected it as you had pushed it way too far past the point of being credible and real ...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Dont people know that they create these worse case scenario reports to see what they need to do to mitigate the liabilities? i would be worried if the government didn't produce these reports.

More shock and horror.

Well just for you...

Let me correct you, the British government have been the terrorists in Ireland, most English people or Scots or Welsh for that matter really couldn't give a shit about Northern Ireland and consider it a problem between "the North and the South of Ireland".

Do you think if the war of the roses was still going on the Irish would give a shit about it?.

The ENGLISH haven't even had a say in what they want in their own country for 450 years never mind some fucker else's.

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By *retty GoodMan over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

Dont people know that they create these worse case scenario reports to see what they need to do to mitigate the liabilities? i would be worried if the government didn't produce these reports.

More shock and horror.

Well just for you...

Lol isn’t there a game of bingo you could be playing in the communal room or a paint by numbers class going on outside? Or is it currently quiet time where you are at the mo

Oooo the loony left

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"Let me correct you, the British government have been the terrorists in Ireland, most English people or Scots or Welsh for that matter really couldn't give a shit about Northern Ireland and consider it a problem between "the North and the South of Ireland".

Do you think if the war of the roses was still going on the Irish would give a shit about it?.

The ENGLISH haven't even had a say in what they want in their own country for 450 years never mind some fucker else's."

I understand, and for the most part, agree with what you are saying. But I will take issue with 2 points.

Firstly, and most importantly, regardless of the interest of the vast majority of British people what the 'establishment' and our government do in our name BELONGS to all who do not oppose it, and the truth is as you say most just don't give a shit and so give tacit support to those policies. Secondly the roots of the troubles in Ireland go all the way back to Henry VIII and Thomas Cromwell, it is a totally English construction. Even the plantation of the most puritan of Scott's Protestantism to NI was an English project.

But the English establishment have always been adapt at dividing those they rule to stay in power, they have even managed to divide the English people, be it by the class system, north v south and now brexit.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Do you think if the war of the roses was still going on the Irish would give a shit about it?.

The ENGLISH haven't even had a say in what they want in their own country for 450 years never mind some fucker else's.

I understand, and for the most part, agree with what you are saying. But I will take issue with 2 points.

In case you'd forgotten did they try to blow up parliament!, although I think most English would be with them on that these days

The English have they're own problems, our roads are fucked, hospitals rammed, schools rammed, drug addicts and homeless everywhere, knife crime is epidemic, Muslims blowing us up, Irish blowing us up and we didn't do any of it, nobody gave us a referendum on bombing Iraq or Ireland, the English people by and large had nothing to do with any of it (armed services the exception), most of us aren't even religious, why were now morally responsible for all this shit is beyond any of us.

We want to get on.

Have a job.

Live in relative peace.

Have prospects and I'll be honest have a sense of identity and belonging.

That's pretty much what everybody else in the world wants, there's really no massive secret in brexit or why anybody voted for it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We want to get on.

Have a job.

Live in relative peace.

Have prospects and I'll be honest have a sense of identity and belonging.

That's pretty much what everybody else in the world wants, there's really no massive secret in brexit or why anybody voted for it.

This is the point though. The trick has been that people have been some how convinced that Brexit will provide some of these things. But when it's analyised, even casually, it falls apart.

Everything you mentioned there, plus schools, hospitals struggling to cope, will get worse under any form of brexit. Even the least damaging brexit will have dire consequences.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We want to get on.

Have a job.

Live in relative peace.

Have prospects and I'll be honest have a sense of identity and belonging.

That's pretty much what everybody else in the world wants, there's really no massive secret in brexit or why anybody voted for it.

This is the point though. The trick has been that people have been some how convinced that Brexit will provide some of these things. But when it's analyised, even casually, it falls apart.

Everything you mentioned there, plus schools, hospitals struggling to cope, will get worse under any form of brexit. Even the least damaging brexit will have dire consequences."
.

No shit that's why I said the consequences are dire because they aren't going to stop with brexit.

It's just a matter of time before somebody offers them what they really want!.

My guess is that somebody won't be a night in shining armour.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"In case you'd forgotten did they try to blow up parliament!"

Ah right, I understand now. Sorry I have got my history so wrong.

Just so I am clear, the English Protestant king Henry VIII (who made being Catholic an act of treason) declared himself King of Ireland in 1541, and invaded Ireland to murder Irish Catholics as an act of retaliation for the Catholics attempted to blow up Parliament in 1605.

I can't understand how I never spotted my mistake before, after all the timeline is so simple to follow.

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By *exysinnersCouple over a year ago

Somewhere in the South West

Does anyone know how any of the other countries outside the EU survive?

Just asking.

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By *estivalMan over a year ago

borehamwood

Dont people know that they create these worse case scenario reports to see what they need to do to mitigate the liabilities? i would be worried if the government didn't produce these reports.

More shock and horror.

Well just for you...

hold your horses where did i say i agreed with an m.p that dead irish is ok for brexit.ya tool i didnt vote for brexit or any party.ya wana stop trying to put words in ppls mouths ya clown. readin.g some of your posts it seems to be a regular occurence

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

You said:

I replied to that:

"Let me start by pointing out that the English are the 'bad guys' and 'terrorists' when it comes to Ireland. Like it or not we have spent the last 450 years subjugating the native Irish (Catholic) population because of their religion. It speaks volumes that you think it is OK for one of our politicians to say if the cost of brexit is the deaths of Irish that's fine but as soon as it is suggested that it may be the deaths of English you are proposing the state murders any who oppose it's occupation of their country."

By not calling out British politicians who make public statements about how a return to the troubles is a price well worth paying for brexit while saying that any who attack the UK should be hunted down and eliminated you support those who are willing to see Irish killed for their political ideology. You do not have to vote or give vocal support to malign influences to support them, all you have to do is sit quietly by and do nothing and in your case you're not even sitting quiet, your voicing support for the state to murder any that refuse to knuckle under to its subjugation but choose to fight back.

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By *estivalMan over a year ago

borehamwood

so what were the bombs about today

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"so what were the bombs about today "

False flag project fear by the black hats??

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

Do you think if the war of the roses was still going on the Irish would give a shit about it?.

The ENGLISH haven't even had a say in what they want in their own country for 450 years never mind some fucker else's.

I understand, and for the most part, agree with what you are saying. But I will take issue with 2 points.

In case you'd forgotten did they try to blow up parliament!, although I think most English would be with them on that these days

We want to get on.

Have a job.

Live in relative peace.

Have prospects and I'll be honest have a sense of identity and belonging.

That's pretty much what everybody else in the world wants, there's really no massive secret in brexit or why anybody voted for it.

Brexit was a tool used by the conservatives following a period of severe cuts to services, incomes fallen after the global recession, so that they could hold on to power from government.

Those cuts to services are now worse and brexit, by the same patty's government, will make things much worse. We learn from our experiences, making mistakes is normal. Expecting that greater cuts to the countrys prosperity will do something different is optimistic but still helping a government cling to power that has form for imposing severe life-destroying damage on to society. A tiny few will prosper but most of them will have funds growing outside of the UK, including other countries that will gain at each UK citizens cost. Vultures circle.

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

Yes, and when Brexit brings about even greater inequality, leaves even more to struggle while toffs dine on the carcass, some new narrative of blame will emerge.

We have lived through one already.

How the reckless greed of the rich was actually the fault of those with nothing - the scroungers, the benefit cheats etc.

How those at the top persuaded those in the middle it was because of those at the bottom that there was no money left.

And when Brexit strips the money tree of its magic, just as the bankers did in 2008, some new narrative of blame will be popularised.

Probably involving Johnny Foreigner and almost certainly the EU.

We will be a country under attack. Those who question the narrative will be denounced as unpatriotic and fifth columnists. Collaborators, even.

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By *osweet69Couple over a year ago

portsmouth

Keep calm and don't panic.It is an ill wind that blows nobody any good.

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By *limmatureguyMan over a year ago

Tonbridge

How ever much money is pumped into the health service, it will struggle to meet demand because it's free to use. If beer was free at pubs (paid for out of general taxation), there would never be enough bar staff to cope. So you control demand by making it difficult to access. Most illnesses go away on their own.

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

Thoughts and prayers, eh?

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By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

"Yes, and when Brexit brings about even greater inequality, leaves even more to struggle while toffs dine on the carcass, some new narrative of blame will emerge.

We have lived through one already.

How the reckless greed of the rich was actually the fault of those with nothing - the scroungers, the benefit cheats etc.

How those at the top persuaded those in the middle it was because of those at the bottom that there was no money left.

And when Brexit strips the money tree of its magic, just as the bankers did in 2008, some new narrative of blame will be popularised.

Probably involving Johnny Foreigner and almost certainly the EU.

We will be a country under attack. Those who question the narrative will be denounced as unpatriotic and fifth columnists. Collaborators, even."

Been watching to many stupid tv programmes on satalite channels lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"In case you'd forgotten did they try to blow up parliament!

Ah right, I understand now. Sorry I have got my history so wrong.

I can't understand how I never spotted my mistake before, after all the timeline is so simple to follow."
.

You missed my point entirely, blowing parliament up and those who actually took part in any injustices we can see why that would happen, if some Isis dude blew up Tony Blair or Gordon brown we'd all slightly understand it, when they blow up kids in Warrington or Omagh or little girls in a concert in Manchester it's not justifiable, it's just revenge those kids had nothing to do with anything like the vast majority of English people or the vast majority of Muslims!.

We the People are not the criminals were the victims of our own government no different than Irish people.

Henry the 8th was a tyrant not only of the Irish but of the English, it's like saying Saddam Hussein brutalized the Iranian Shias while loving his own Sunnis, no, no he didn't.

Besides all that England for two generations hasn't even been religious were a predominantly atheist country unlike Scotland Wales or Ireland, you can thank Henry the 8th for that

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By *avidnsa69Man over a year ago

Essex

"What a load of negative crap,even if true does not matter WE ARE LEAVING.

Fabio and co you give all this forcasts but we should all be dealing with the job to be done after Brexit.

Leave and 5 years from now we will be the richest country in Europe assuming Corbyn or Mcdonald never take over this country as they are planning.

I use the word takeover as they cannot do it demorcratically I reckon.

Being negative is pointless yes be worried but we deal with it."

Will we all have a free unicorn too? Absolute piffle as usual from you

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By *avidnsa69Man over a year ago

Essex

"Or maybe just maybe this is just your opinion and is based on a few articles and word of mouth.

But main point is, this current article is from our own government and was commissioned by Boris Johnson, you might have heard of him?

O I thought it was deliberately leaked by a former minister, and a lot has changed since ???

I would imagine the police are being briefed on how to handle all the loonies post brexit, if they are this loony pre brexit I bet the government are scared stiff about the loonies "

The date on the document shows it was after Boris took over....they're lying (again)

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

"Does anyone know how any of the other countries outside the EU survive?

Just asking.

I think you are missing the point.

How did other countries adjust to the dissolution of union and the disintegration of the various shared networks and rules?

The Czech Republic and Slovakia?

Yugoslavia?

India and Pakistan?

How prepared were they for the consequences?

How long did it take them to adjust?

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By *exysinnersCouple over a year ago

Somewhere in the South West

I'm not missing any point. Sometimes in life you have to take risks without knowing the outcome. The EU is not the be all and end all. Improvise adapt and over come and the UK will prosper!

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

Seems reasonable to me that after three years the risks might be understood and plans in place to mitigate them.

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

Has anyone seen the leaked documents that say how wonderful life is going to be post Brexit? I mean presumably there must be something, somewhere, written by someone that has an alternative narrative? Something that shows a post Brexit U.K. flying high and booming in glorious isolation.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm not missing any point. Sometimes in life you have to take risks without knowing the outcome. The EU is not the be all and end all. Improvise adapt and over come and the UK will prosper! "

But then why not "improvise, adapt and overcome" now while we have a privileged position in one of the biggest trading blocks in the world, while we have rights and protections as workers and citizens, while we have environmental protections, while we have food safety standards, while we are relatively prosperous, while we have EU workers to fill jobs and staff the NHS, while we have money to fund schools and healthcare, while we have freedom of movement around the EU, while we have freedom to work in the EU. Etc etc etc

Why do we have to wait until we lose all this for no benefit what-so-ever before we "improvise, adapt and overcome"?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Does anyone know how any of the other countries outside the EU survive?

Just asking.

I think you are missing the point.

How did other countries adjust to the dissolution of union and the disintegration of the various shared networks and rules?

The Czech Republic and Slovakia?

Yugoslavia?

India and Pakistan?

How prepared were they for the consequences?

How long did it take them to adjust?"

Weve decided to take the raisins out of our cake, having already baked it... And think we can do this while leaving a complete cake behind.

But does anyone know how other cakes don't fall apart without raisins?

They don't put them in there to start with.

This is the fallacy of referring back to the 1970s referendum. It may have been the right decision was to have not gone in. That doesn't make it the right decision to exit today. The world has changed. Our waybof working has changed.

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

Since June 2016, the only outcome that's ever been in the control of the UK to deliver is a unilateral exit.

That ought to have been the baseline planning assumption, and any improvement on that considered a bonus.

It wasn't, because voters had been told this was ridiculous, project fear, blah blah.

"We're making no plans for no deal because we are going to get a great deal," said the Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson.

Hubris.

On an epic scale.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It was also the most likely option to deliver the type of brexit the hard liners were promoting. No single market. No customs unions. A clean break with FTA only.

Shame about that patch of grass to the left of Liverpool.

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By *exysinnersCouple over a year ago

Somewhere in the South West

Manage change, there will always be a what if, if we stay in the EU. The original common market was not designed to be like the EU is now. Its a modern day version of Hitlers ideology.

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

" ... snipped....

The original common market was not designed to be like the EU is now. Its a modern day version of Hitlers ideology. "

Our country is collectively losing its mind. Two years of pre-referendum debate and three years since the referendum- and we have people genuinely believing things like this.

Just astonishing.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" ... snipped....

The original common market was not designed to be like the EU is now. Its a modern day version of Hitlers ideology.

Our country is collectively losing its mind. Two years of pre-referendum debate and three years since the referendum- and we have people genuinely believing things like this.

Just astonishing."

I don't even know where horse shit like this coming from. This goes beyond the dirge in the Daily Mail and Daily Express.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It’s just fear of German economic dominance in the EU .All conspiracy nonsense is based on fear .

It’s become something of an urban myth amongst hardcore brexiters.

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By *ore of thatMan over a year ago

skerries

The cheek of you calling Ireland a blade of grass

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By *ore of thatMan over a year ago

skerries

That thick you very clever people voted to be prime minister was the one who negotiate the back stop when he was foreign Secretary...maybe back in the day if you stayed out of ireland you wouldn't be in this situation now .What goes around comes around .your not the great British empire anymore .No one is afraid to take you on anymore

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"That thick you very clever people voted to be prime minister was the one who negotiate the back stop when he was foreign Secretary...maybe back in the day if you stayed out of ireland you wouldn't be in this situation now .What goes around comes around .your not the great British empire anymore .No one is afraid to take you on anymore "

And maybe if certain factions stopped trying to blow people and property up Ireland would be in a better position to re unify then have a proper border at the waters edge.

But that’s not going to happen because there are those who want the troubles to return

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"I'm not missing any point. Sometimes in life you have to take risks without knowing the outcome. The EU is not the be all and end all. Improvise adapt and over come and the UK will prosper! "

Let me remind you that Albert Einstein said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."

Sara named 3 of the 20th century breakups that ended in the mass loss of life, can you match that or name 1 that didn't?

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By *retty GoodMan over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

"I'm not missing any point. Sometimes in life you have to take risks without knowing the outcome. The EU is not the be all and end all. Improvise adapt and over come and the UK will prosper!

Let me remind you that Albert Einstein said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."

Sara named 3 of the 20th century breakups that ended in the mass loss of life, can you match that or name 1 that didn't?"

Lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Greenland escape the eec (or whatever it was called)

And now they may become officially part of the US.

If that isn't a brexit wet dream I don't know what is.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yes, it doesnt look good for brexit with the reports.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"Greenland escape the eec (or whatever it was called)"

Not quite so.

Greenland did not split with Denmark. Denmark did not split with the EEC. So although Greenland withdrew from EEC regulations neither its status with Denmark or Denmark's status with the EU changed.

Now please name a union (country or federation) that split without the split being the catalyst for massive civil unrest and war.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Greenland escape the eec (or whatever it was called)

Not quite so.

Greenland did not split with Denmark. Denmark did not split with the EEC. So although Greenland withdrew from EEC regulations neither its status with Denmark or Denmark's status with the EU changed.

Now please name a union (country or federation) that split without the split being the catalyst for massive civil unrest and war."

Probably Czechoslovakia - most recent and reportedly peaceful. Called the 'velvet divorce'. However, most other schisms of the type Brexit is have decades of lingering issues, economic and social.

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By *retty GoodMan over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

"Greenland escape the eec (or whatever it was called)

Not quite so.

Greenland did not split with Denmark. Denmark did not split with the EEC. So although Greenland withdrew from EEC regulations neither its status with Denmark or Denmark's status with the EU changed.

Now please name a union (country or federation) that split without the split being the catalyst for massive civil unrest and war."

The UK

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By *ostafunMan over a year ago

near ipswich

"Greenland escape the eec (or whatever it was called)

Not quite so.

Greenland did not split with Denmark. Denmark did not split with the EEC. So although Greenland withdrew from EEC regulations neither its status with Denmark or Denmark's status with the EU changed.

Now please name a union (country or federation) that split without the split being the catalyst for massive civil unrest and war."
So are you now predicting a civil war?

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By *lanemikeMan over a year ago

Bolton

Every thing will continue as normal, do not see what all the fuss is about. We are just leaving the European Union. Some politicians are concerned as their livelihoods depend upon it.....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"if anyone screams "project fear" in talk of the 'project Yellowhammer' document leaked in that communinist rag... the sunday times today, can please remind them this:

this document leaked today was commission by Bojo's brexiteer vote leave government! its what those hard brexiteers asked for......

it is NOT the same document that leaked under TM! it was recommissioned....

so... do we finally get people taking their heads out of their sands and looks at the reality of what may happen in 80-odd days... "

That communist rag the sunday times. Do you mean the same sunday times which is "owned" by the Australian born and American naturalised oligarch otherwise known as Rupert?

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By *retty GoodMan over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

"Every thing will continue as normal, do not see what all the fuss is about. We are just leaving the European Union. Some politicians are concerned as their livelihoods depend upon it....."

Please don’t say that, there are a lot of people on here who have got nothing else to cry and moan about it.

Please don’t take that away from them

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

"Manage change, there will always be a what if, if we stay in the EU. The original common market was not designed to be like the EU is now. Its a modern day version of Hitlers ideology. "

This is a myth.

The Treaty of Rome was a commitment to ever-closer union.

A defence pact first discussed in 1950s.

A single currency first mooted in 1969.

Leading to the first fixed exchange rate - the precursor to monetary union - in 1972, called "the snake" .

Britain joined the snake briefly in 1974.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"if anyone screams "project fear" in talk of the 'project Yellowhammer' document leaked in that communinist rag... the sunday times today, can please remind them this:

this document leaked today was commission by Bojo's brexiteer vote leave government! its what those hard brexiteers asked for......

it is NOT the same document that leaked under TM! it was recommissioned....

so... do we finally get people taking their heads out of their sands and looks at the reality of what may happen in 80-odd days...

That communist rag the sunday times. Do you mean the same sunday times which is "owned" by the Australian born and American naturalised oligarch otherwise known as Rupert? "

The words communist and Rupert seem at odds...

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"Every thing will continue as normal, do not see what all the fuss is about. We are just leaving the European Union. Some politicians are concerned as their livelihoods depend upon it....."

Only if the EU allow it to.

Fact is that since the EEC morphed into the EU we have taken full advantage of Brussels. We no longer have our own (expensive) civil aviation, nuclear, pharmaceutical (and many more) regulatory bodies. Therefore there is a possibility that if we crash out without a deal and BoJo decides to play hardball as he has threatened and withhold the payments we owe the EU that the EU will equally play hardball and withdraw all regulatory cover from the UK thus plunging the UK into chaos.

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By *exysinnersCouple over a year ago

Somewhere in the South West

Everyone has their own opinion, what will be will be. No one knows the exact outcome, the majority is pure speculation.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Everyone has their own opinion, what will be will be. No one knows the exact outcome, the majority is pure speculation. "

I know exactly what a no deal brexit will cost, approximately 90 jobs at my firm, the reasons I have stated over a few threads the past year or so.

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By *lanemikeMan over a year ago

Bolton

"Everyone has their own opinion, what will be will be. No one knows the exact outcome, the majority is pure speculation.

I know exactly what a no deal brexit will cost, approximately 90 jobs at my firm, the reasons I have stated over a few threads the past year or so."

What will be different to cause those to apparently cease ??

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Everyone has their own opinion, what will be will be. No one knows the exact outcome, the majority is pure speculation.

I know exactly what a no deal brexit will cost, approximately 90 jobs at my firm, the reasons I have stated over a few threads the past year or so.

What will be different to cause those to apparently cease ?? "

Work will be transferred to our sister plant in Germany to avoid tariffs and delays, we will receive in return the work our sister plant does for the UK but that works out at a 30% loss to us

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Everyone has their own opinion, what will be will be. No one knows the exact outcome, the majority is pure speculation. "

No one knows the exact outcome of Russian roulette.

But we know the likely worst case scenario.

The government report isn't wild speculation. People have (I'd hope) given this careful thought and analysis. Wild speculation comes when you say every thing will be a o k without having anything to back this up.

Id be worried if we were planning on the basis of Mrs Muggins from nowhereshire having a gut feel it will be fine if we just put on a happy face.

But then again, I give a fair amount of weight to experts, especially if they are consistent with their views. It's why I trust doctors (especially if I have a second opinion) and don't rely on an old wives tail.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Sorry but crap, the EU is made up of 27 countries.

So there's about a 100 other countries not in the EU, please tell me how many people in them countries are dying because they don't have access to the EU. "

This is such a mumbled jumble of crap and such an apparent display of total lack of understanding and reasoning it's laughable and worrying as this mentality is Brexit through and through

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By *abio OP Man over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Everyone has their own opinion, what will be will be. No one knows the exact outcome, the majority is pure speculation. "

okay.... if we take this at face value... can i ask a question...

the phrase of the day yesterday from the government is they conceded there would be "bumps in the road".....

so if that is the case.... at what point should the government tell us what these "bumps in the road" will be.... they have a fairly good idea

and will brexiteers admit those bumps are actually bumps... and not just resort to the "project fear" line.......

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"Does anyone know how any of the other countries outside the EU survive?

Just asking.

Mostly by either being a lot bigger than the UK (USA, China, India) or joining regional trade blocks (Norway, Iceland, Switzerland).

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Does anyone know how any of the other countries outside the EU survive?

Just asking.

Mostly by either being a lot bigger than the UK (USA, China, India) or joining regional trade blocks (Norway, Iceland, Switzerland).

And of course, many of them do just that, survive. Rather than thriving.

Have brexiteers shifted their perceived goals now to just surviving?

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By *retty GoodMan over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

"Does anyone know how any of the other countries outside the EU survive?

Just asking.

Mostly by either being a lot bigger than the UK (USA, China, India) or joining regional trade blocks (Norway, Iceland, Switzerland).

And of course, many of them do just that, survive. Rather than thriving.

Have brexiteers shifted their perceived goals now to just surviving?"

Just wondering if the no deal goes through would you or any of the other loony left be leaving the UK ?

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By *teveuk77Man over a year ago

"Everyone has their own opinion, what will be will be. No one knows the exact outcome, the majority is pure speculation.

I know exactly what a no deal brexit will cost, approximately 90 jobs at my firm, the reasons I have stated over a few threads the past year or so.

What will be different to cause those to apparently cease ??

Work will be transferred to our sister plant in Germany to avoid tariffs and delays, we will receive in return the work our sister plant does for the UK but that works out at a 30% loss to us"

Multiple this situation many times and this is exactly why Brexit is going to be a disaster for anyone who cant afford to 'invest' in the UKs demise.

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"Does anyone know how any of the other countries outside the EU survive?

Just asking.

Mostly by either being a lot bigger than the UK (USA, China, India) or joining regional trade blocks (Norway, Iceland, Switzerland).

And of course, many of them do just that, survive. Rather than thriving.

Have brexiteers shifted their perceived goals now to just surviving?

Just wondering if the no deal goes through would you or any of the other loony left be leaving the UK ? "

Why is it that every time you run out of reasoned argument, you start on the personal stuff? Everyone you can’t seem to argue a point with becomes “the loony left.”

Why don’t you try to engage in the argument rather than crumble and start name calling?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Does anyone know how any of the other countries outside the EU survive?

Just asking.

Mostly by either being a lot bigger than the UK (USA, China, India) or joining regional trade blocks (Norway, Iceland, Switzerland).

And of course, many of them do just that, survive. Rather than thriving.

Have brexiteers shifted their perceived goals now to just surviving?

Just wondering if the no deal goes through would you or any of the other loony left be leaving the UK ?

Why is it that every time you run out of reasoned argument, you start on the personal stuff? Everyone you can’t seem to argue a point with becomes “the loony left.”

Why don’t you try to engage in the argument rather than crumble and start name calling? "

I came to the same conclusion as others on here, it's pointless engaging with this poster in any way as they just jump to insults and baseless accusations.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *retty GoodMan over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

"Does anyone know how any of the other countries outside the EU survive?

Just asking.

Mostly by either being a lot bigger than the UK (USA, China, India) or joining regional trade blocks (Norway, Iceland, Switzerland).

And of course, many of them do just that, survive. Rather than thriving.

Have brexiteers shifted their perceived goals now to just surviving?

Just wondering if the no deal goes through would you or any of the other loony left be leaving the UK ?

Why is it that every time you run out of reasoned argument, you start on the personal stuff? Everyone you can’t seem to argue a point with becomes “the loony left.”

Why don’t you try to engage in the argument rather than crumble and start name calling? "

Ok let’s say your 100% right and the uk becomes a 3rd world country ,, will you be moving out of the UK ?

I haven’t entered the debate or even started on reasoned argument about this let alone run out of reasoned argument, I like sitting back and watching the loony left cry and moan

So will you be moving ?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *retty GoodMan over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

"Does anyone know how any of the other countries outside the EU survive?

Just asking.

Mostly by either being a lot bigger than the UK (USA, China, India) or joining regional trade blocks (Norway, Iceland, Switzerland).

And of course, many of them do just that, survive. Rather than thriving.

Have brexiteers shifted their perceived goals now to just surviving?

Just wondering if the no deal goes through would you or any of the other loony left be leaving the UK ?

Why is it that every time you run out of reasoned argument, you start on the personal stuff? Everyone you can’t seem to argue a point with becomes “the loony left.”

Why don’t you try to engage in the argument rather than crumble and start name calling?

I came to the same conclusion as others on here, it's pointless engaging with this poster in any way as they just jump to insults and baseless accusations."

Baseless accusations ? Like when you were for sexual harassment ?