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Welsh independence
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By *ost SockMan
over a year ago
West Wales and Cardiff |
"Yay or nay?
Realistic or unrealistic?
Would you support Wales leaving the United Kingdom to become an independent country?"
I generally thought it wasn’t feasible. However, at the moment I’m that appalled at the state of the UK that I’m adopting the mantra of some Brexit voters - “I don’t care if we’re poorer, just get me out”.
I accept it needs to be more rational than that.
I would say that something is stirring though - I speak to friends here, including lifelong Tories, who are looking at independence and like the inclusive, welcoming stance shown by Adam Price etc.
I don’t think anything will happen though, mainly because there are so many people from outside Wales. For example, 22% of the population is English. The vast majority are lovely and extremely welcome, but I can’t see many looking at independence.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"How would that work,what currency would they use for a start, has wales an bank? "
The Bank of Wales was bought by the Bank of Scotland, which in turn is owned by Lloyds. Bank of Scotland already issues currency. The Bank of Wales doesn't currently operate in the style of usual High Street banks. In 2014 Lloyds Banking Group announced that it would re-establish the Bank of Wales as a savings provider. Its savings products are currently only available through a selected panel of life assurance companies.
There is also The Development Bank of Wales Group, which is one of the UK’s largest regional SME investment companies and provides growth capital for small and medium-sized businesses. It is owned by the Welsh Government.
If Wales was to become an independent country, the obvious route would be for Wales to be a member of the EU. Therefore, adopting the Euro would be an obvious choice. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
To me its just not feasible to run the country without the money from the uk as a whole.Also if independence came after brexit it could take wales years to get into the eu if ever as it would need to meet the eu,s fiscal requirements.This also goes for scotland the snp still have not explained what money they would use as if they were independent and kept sterling they would still be run by the bank of england . |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Yay or nay?
Realistic or unrealistic?
Would you support Wales leaving the United Kingdom to become an independent country?
I generally thought it wasn’t feasible. However, at the moment I’m that appalled at the state of the UK that I’m adopting the mantra of some Brexit voters - “I don’t care if we’re poorer, just get me out”.
I accept it needs to be more rational than that.
I would say that something is stirring though - I speak to friends here, including lifelong Tories, who are looking at independence and like the inclusive, welcoming stance shown by Adam Price etc.
I don’t think anything will happen though, mainly because there are so many people from outside Wales. For example, 22% of the population is English. The vast majority are lovely and extremely welcome, but I can’t see many looking at independence.
"
% years ago, I myself couldn't see how Wales could sustain itself as an independent country. After I moved to live in North Wales though, I began to change my mind. Firstly, a 22% English population does mean that 78% of the population is Welsh - a larger majority than that which secured Brexit.
Within 10 miles of my home and within Wales are the following companies which you might have heard of.
There is the head office of a large supermarket chain - Iceland.
A successful Tata steel factory, which Tata would prefer to not close down.
A selection of paper product factories with names such as UPM, SCA Hygeine and Kimberley Clark who own the factory which "invented" wet wipes.
The Toyota engine factory.
And a small aeroplane manufacturing company you may have heard of, Airbus.
Then theres Westfield who manufacturer furniture for many big brand names including Marks & Spencer.
Oh, and Kingspan.
Then there's the industry of South Wales which I'm not familiar with.
Also, both North and South Wales have excellent sea connections to Ireland and mainland Europe.
Even if Wales preferred not to be full members of the EU, as an independent country with these companies above all represented, Wales would be in a strong bargaining position for a new EU relationship beneficial to both. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
What money would it use? You cant adopt the euro without being in the eu if you wanted to use sterling you would be tied to uk interest rates so not really independent.Would the taxes you raise in wales be enough to run the health service and everything else? personally i dont think so. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"To me its just not feasible to run the country without the money from the uk as a whole.Also if independence came after brexit it could take wales years to get into the eu if ever as it would need to meet the eu,s fiscal requirements.This also goes for scotland the snp still have not explained what money they would use as if they were independent and kept sterling they would still be run by the bank of england ."
Correct, that's what I first thought. Considering that Wales voted in favour of Brexit, full EU membership for Wales might not be over popular. However, looking at the list of European companies already represented in Wales, there would be considerable pressure on the EU to be accomodating. I'm sure they would be open minded enough to consider a variety of options, just as they have done previously for other countries.
The prospect of both Scotland and Wales looking for independence would also open opportunities for cooperation and agreement between Scotland & Wales who are historically closely linked thanks to the common Gaelic / Celtic links. Those links are of course also shared with Ireland.
Ireland? Oh, Eire and even Northern Ireland are struggling with the issues being thrown up by Brexit.
Suddenly, things start to look pretty bad for England, which is perhaps why the new British government is so set against things such as referendums and devolution. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"What money would it use? You cant adopt the euro without being in the eu if you wanted to use sterling you would be tied to uk interest rates so not really independent.Would the taxes you raise in wales be enough to run the health service and everything else? personally i dont think so. "
I do agree that the question of "what currency" would be a matter of much debate. However, Scotland already doesn't conform entirely with English currency. If you've ever tried to spend a Scottish pound note in Manchester, you'll know what I mean.
However, I'm sure a solution would be found. Bear in mind the manner in which the concept of currency is currently being challenged by online banking, cashless transactions, card payments, phone payments and even crypto-currencies.
Indeed, how certain can we be about Sterling if our government is to create massive partnerships with the USA? |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
I think you are missing the point Wales would need to prove they meet the eu,s financial requirements before even being considered to join.Also the eu has stated that no new country will be joining in the next 5 years when ask about Turkey.As for thinking the eu will be pressured by eu companies in wales thats not going to happen. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I think you are missing the point Wales would need to prove they meet the eu,s financial requirements before even being considered to join.Also the eu has stated that no new country will be joining in the next 5 years when ask about Turkey.As for thinking the eu will be pressured by eu companies in wales thats not going to happen. "
It would all be for debate and consideration.
However, I personally think the issues could have solutions! |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Yes, it could be realistic, but still be in the eu  "
Have you not read any of the previous posts? you would need to apply meet the requirements and after that wait at least 5 years nice lttle fantasy for you though life without England.  |
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"Yes, it could be realistic, but still be in the eu Have you not read any of the previous posts? you would need to apply meet the requirements and after that wait at least 5 years nice lttle fantasy for you though life without England. "
Same for Scotland - I don’t understand Sturgeon and her quest for independence and still trying to remain in the Eu
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Yay or nay?
Realistic or unrealistic?
Would you support Wales leaving the United Kingdom to become an independent country?"
I support the right of the population to determine the answer themselves.
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"How about the 'League of Celtic Nations'... Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.... join together and join EU?"
That's an awful lot of work. The simpler route is for the United Kingdom to revoke Article 50 and England to leave the UK.
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
" However, Scotland already doesn't conform entirely with English currency. If you've ever tried to spend a Scottish pound note in Manchester, you'll know what I mean."
Scotland does.
It uses the same currency as everybody else.
It's just snotty ignorant fuckers in England who do not recognise Sterling when they see it.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"How about the 'League of Celtic Nations'... Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.... join together and join EU?"
That would give a combined population of around 10.3 million. That would be more than Portugal which is currently the 12th largest (by population) country in the EU (out of 28).
I do like the idea!
Only one potential problem, there's currently only 5 swingers clubs listed for the 3 countries, not sure they could cope with a potential average membership of 2 million people per club?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How about the 'League of Celtic Nations'... Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.... join together and join EU?"
maybe let London join.. And Manchester?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes, it could be realistic, but still be in the eu Have you not read any of the previous posts? you would need to apply meet the requirements and after that wait at least 5 years nice lttle fantasy for you though life without England. "
You never know if they could make an exception on the requirements, for it to be fast tracked |
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"Yay or nay?
Realistic or unrealistic?
Would you support Wales leaving the United Kingdom to become an independent country?
I support the right of the population to determine the answer themselves.
"
This..
And the irony of some who voted for Brexit casting scorn upon such ideas is at best ironic and arrogant..
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
" However, Scotland already doesn't conform entirely with English currency. If you've ever tried to spend a Scottish pound note in Manchester, you'll know what I mean.
Scotland does.
It uses the same currency as everybody else.
It's just snotty ignorant fuckers in England who do not recognise Sterling when they see it.
"
Its all underwritten by the bank of england so i ask again what currency will you all be using? |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Yay or nay?
Realistic or unrealistic?
Would you support Wales leaving the United Kingdom to become an independent country?
I support the right of the population to determine the answer themselves.
This..
And the irony of some who voted for Brexit casting scorn upon such ideas is at best ironic and arrogant..
"
Not casting scorn just asking logical questions and yes agree its the right of the population to decide which i thought scotland did. |
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"Yay or nay?
Realistic or unrealistic?
Would you support Wales leaving the United Kingdom to become an independent country?
I support the right of the population to determine the answer themselves.
This..
And the irony of some who voted for Brexit casting scorn upon such ideas is at best ironic and arrogant..
Not casting scorn just asking logical questions and yes agree its the right of the population to decide which i thought scotland did. "
One person's logical question becomes how very fucking dare those EU scum interfere in our brexit..
Not saying you in particular Costa have used such common place terminology but it's been prevalent on here with some.. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
" However, Scotland already doesn't conform entirely with English currency. If you've ever tried to spend a Scottish pound note in Manchester, you'll know what I mean.
Scotland does.
It uses the same currency as everybody else.
It's just snotty ignorant fuckers in England who do not recognise Sterling when they see it.
Its all underwritten by the bank of england so i ask again what currency will you all be using?"
If the United Kingdom ceased to exist, its successor states will share the assets and liabilities.
It may be sensible for sovereign states to continue with a single currency.
For a while anyway.
The risk to a single currency from sovereign states setting their own fiscal policy has been seen in the € sovereign debt crisis. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
" However, Scotland already doesn't conform entirely with English currency. If you've ever tried to spend a Scottish pound note in Manchester, you'll know what I mean.
Scotland does.
It uses the same currency as everybody else.
It's just snotty ignorant fuckers in England who do not recognise Sterling when they see it.
Its all underwritten by the bank of england so i ask again what currency will you all be using?
If the United Kingdom ceased to exist, its successor states will share the assets and liabilities.
It may be sensible for sovereign states to continue with a single currency.
For a while anyway.
The risk to a single currency from sovereign states setting their own fiscal policy has been seen in the € sovereign debt crisis."
Who,s to say that they will share assets and liabilities? england could just say ok you choose to leave goodbye and good luck. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Moving back to the original post though, an independent Wales would have a population of around 3.2 million. There are 7 out of 28 countries in the EU with smaller population. Wales would have around the same population of the 4 smallest EU countries combined (including Luxembourg).
I do reckon that Wales has enough potential to stand on its own feet as an independent country.
Can Wales fund it's own health? Well, looking at the state of the Glan Clwyd / Bodelwyddan waiting time and knowing the horrific stories about the Prince of Wales down south, the NHS isn't exactly doing a good job!
Tax? Well, the steps are already being taken. Wales is becoming ever more responsible for it's own tax affairs. I live in Wales which means that only half of my income tax goes to London. The other half now goes to the Welsh government. Indeed, the Welsh government has a very clear pathway already laid down which sees it able to set its own income tax rates.
Road network?
For a country with only 1 and a bit motorways, Wales does very well. Yeah, the M4 has a couple of pinch points and the A55 has it's moments, but generally, traffic to and from Wales has to face much greater delays on the English M6, M5, M25, M20 etc.
Rail?
Yeah, we've got fast ones, direct ones, inter city ones and pretty ones that stop at remote villages in Wales.
Sea connections?
Milford Haven has a higher rate of cargo tonnage than Southampton. Holyhead welcomes some of the largest ro-ro ferries.
One potential issue for an independent Wales is the amount of land border shared with England.
However, I would propose an army of well trained killer oggies patrolling the border. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"How about the 'League of Celtic Nations'... Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.... join together and join EU?maybe let London join.. And Manchester? "
Birkenhead & Blackpool
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The vast majority of people in Wales don't want independence, despite the economic nonsense of it all.
They conducted a poll a few years back where over 80% in Wales happily identified as nationally British and were happy remaining so.
The problem with the Welsh Assembly referendum of 1997, was that is was passed by effectively 50% of a 50% turnout - that means it was supported by only 25% of the electorate in Wales. It had problems ever since, but it took to closing ranks and just taking things when it could. For example more tax powers - we were promised a referendum, but everything is on the sly here. This was the warning back in the day though - it's a runaway train almost by definition. The now-empowered nationalists will never be happy until we are either Federally or completely independent.
Also, they ring-fenced the Welsh Language/nationalism budget all the way through Austerity, and have literally spent billions watching interest in it slide. (We pay through the nose for bilingual everything and Welsh-only positions like lawyers that are never used.)
That despite them criminally transforming a number of local English-speaking schools into 'Welsh Medium' ones.
Wales has at various times during Austerity had the worst statistics on everything bad in the UK. From unemployment to suicide. They blame London every time. It's too easy to do.
And Labour here is centrist at heart- which doesn't suit Wales as a whole at all. Labour here is not as strong as they used to be - it's why they keep having to do deals with other parties to get their stuff through. Drakeford (our new emperor emeritus after Carwyn's resignation) is more on the left, but is a bit of a sap, sadly. But at least he’s there now.
The Assembly exaggerated the Welsh language’s post-Assembly take-up from the outset, so it was always going to slide. It's not a 'living language', as people have to combine too much English with it for modern communication, and there is no likelihood of you being understood by most locals either when using it.
But the Welsh Language is the 'big difference' of the Welsh Assembly. The other good stuff (when you can find it- Cardiff centre looks good etc) would have happened anyway - which is how you should look at/compare these things.
The Welsh Language issue has upset a huge amount of people in Wales, but you can't officially complain about it (seeing things in only Welsh for example) - you can only complain if you see too much English! Despite the equality law. We pay for a complaints procedure (as we pay for everything to be doubled in Welsh, from civic emails to endless junk, to hospital bin signs), but when you complain about the ‘wrong’ issue with this, they send you away. The MPs and AM's say they won't touch the subject, and the Ombudsmen sends you back to the complaints people. It's actually not nice at all.
Despite all the post-Assembly millennials they've attempted to indoctrinate in flag-waving schools (with some success but not enough), I honestly don't think the Welsh Assembly would pass it a referendum if one was held now. They've offered their new-era kids all the age-pay cliqy jobs in town - but only if they keep up with their Welsh. It’s all too much and too vulgar (I feel embarrassed at times of all the boasting over modern ‘Welshness’), but people here will put up with it as long as we stay British too. Nationalism is just an easy string to pull here. Ask a Welsh person, are you not Welsh? and they’ll say 'well if you must' for anything. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Yes, it could be realistic, but still be in the eu Have you not read any of the previous posts? you would need to apply meet the requirements and after that wait at least 5 years nice lttle fantasy for you though life without England. You never know if they could make an exception on the requirements, for it to be fast tracked "
I'm sure that a gift of Penderyn and Clogau would help them to realise that Wales has assets! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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" However, Scotland already doesn't conform entirely with English currency. If you've ever tried to spend a Scottish pound note in Manchester, you'll know what I mean.
Scotland does.
It uses the same currency as everybody else.
It's just snotty ignorant fuckers in England who do not recognise Sterling when they see it.
Its all underwritten by the bank of england so i ask again what currency will you all be using?"
Well, it would be for debate. Possibly Pounds Sterling, Possibly Euro, possibly Welsh Shillings. However, complex political independence situations do exist already and perhaps the Welsh could do like they do on the Isle of Man and trade in kippers? |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"The vast majority of people in Wales don't want independence, despite the economic nonsense of it all.
They conducted a poll a few years back where over 80% in Wales happily identified as nationally British and were happy remaining so.
The problem with the Welsh Assembly referendum of 1997, was that is was passed by effectively 50% of a 50% turnout - that means it was supported by only 25% of the electorate in Wales. It had problems ever since, but it took to closing ranks and just taking things when it could. For example more tax powers - we were promised a referendum, but everything is on the sly here. This was the warning back in the day though - it's a runaway train almost by definition. The now-empowered nationalists will never be happy until we are either Federally or completely independent.
Also, they ring-fenced the Welsh Language/nationalism budget all the way through Austerity, and have literally spent billions watching interest in it slide. (We pay through the nose for bilingual everything and Welsh-only positions like lawyers that are never used.)
That despite them criminally transforming a number of local English-speaking schools into 'Welsh Medium' ones.
Wales has at various times during Austerity had the worst statistics on everything bad in the UK. From unemployment to suicide. They blame London every time. It's too easy to do.
And Labour here is centrist at heart- which doesn't suit Wales as a whole at all. Labour here is not as strong as they used to be - it's why they keep having to do deals with other parties to get their stuff through. Drakeford (our new emperor emeritus after Carwyn's resignation) is more on the left, but is a bit of a sap, sadly. But at least he’s there now.
The Assembly exaggerated the Welsh language’s post-Assembly take-up from the outset, so it was always going to slide. It's not a 'living language', as people have to combine too much English with it for modern communication, and there is no likelihood of you being understood by most locals either when using it.
But the Welsh Language is the 'big difference' of the Welsh Assembly. The other good stuff (when you can find it- Cardiff centre looks good etc) would have happened anyway - which is how you should look at/compare these things.
The Welsh Language issue has upset a huge amount of people in Wales, but you can't officially complain about it (seeing things in only Welsh for example) - you can only complain if you see too much English! Despite the equality law. We pay for a complaints procedure (as we pay for everything to be doubled in Welsh, from civic emails to endless junk, to hospital bin signs), but when you complain about the ‘wrong’ issue with this, they send you away. The MPs and AM's say they won't touch the subject, and the Ombudsmen sends you back to the complaints people. It's actually not nice at all.
Despite all the post-Assembly millennials they've attempted to indoctrinate in flag-waving schools (with some success but not enough), I honestly don't think the Welsh Assembly would pass it a referendum if one was held now. They've offered their new-era kids all the age-pay cliqy jobs in town - but only if they keep up with their Welsh. It’s all too much and too vulgar (I feel embarrassed at times of all the boasting over modern ‘Welshness’), but people here will put up with it as long as we stay British too. Nationalism is just an easy string to pull here. Ask a Welsh person, are you not Welsh? and they’ll say 'well if you must' for anything."
love Cardiff and some of the fittest birds in the uk. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The vast majority of people in Wales don't want independence, despite the economic nonsense of it all.
They conducted a poll a few years back where over 80% in Wales happily identified as nationally British and were happy remaining so.
The problem with the Welsh Assembly referendum of 1997, was that is was passed by effectively 50% of a 50% turnout - that means it was supported by only 25% of the electorate in Wales. It had problems ever since, but it took to closing ranks and just taking things when it could. For example more tax powers - we were promised a referendum, but everything is on the sly here. This was the warning back in the day though - it's a runaway train almost by definition. The now-empowered nationalists will never be happy until we are either Federally or completely independent.
Also, they ring-fenced the Welsh Language/nationalism budget all the way through Austerity, and have literally spent billions watching interest in it slide. (We pay through the nose for bilingual everything and Welsh-only positions like lawyers that are never used.)
That despite them criminally transforming a number of local English-speaking schools into 'Welsh Medium' ones.
Wales has at various times during Austerity had the worst statistics on everything bad in the UK. From unemployment to suicide. They blame London every time. It's too easy to do.
And Labour here is centrist at heart- which doesn't suit Wales as a whole at all. Labour here is not as strong as they used to be - it's why they keep having to do deals with other parties to get their stuff through. Drakeford (our new emperor emeritus after Carwyn's resignation) is more on the left, but is a bit of a sap, sadly. But at least he’s there now.
The Assembly exaggerated the Welsh language’s post-Assembly take-up from the outset, so it was always going to slide. It's not a 'living language', as people have to combine too much English with it for modern communication, and there is no likelihood of you being understood by most locals either when using it.
But the Welsh Language is the 'big difference' of the Welsh Assembly. The other good stuff (when you can find it- Cardiff centre looks good etc) would have happened anyway - which is how you should look at/compare these things.
The Welsh Language issue has upset a huge amount of people in Wales, but you can't officially complain about it (seeing things in only Welsh for example) - you can only complain if you see too much English! Despite the equality law. We pay for a complaints procedure (as we pay for everything to be doubled in Welsh, from civic emails to endless junk, to hospital bin signs), but when you complain about the ‘wrong’ issue with this, they send you away. The MPs and AM's say they won't touch the subject, and the Ombudsmen sends you back to the complaints people. It's actually not nice at all.
Despite all the post-Assembly millennials they've attempted to indoctrinate in flag-waving schools (with some success but not enough), I honestly don't think the Welsh Assembly would pass it a referendum if one was held now. They've offered their new-era kids all the age-pay cliqy jobs in town - but only if they keep up with their Welsh. It’s all too much and too vulgar (I feel embarrassed at times of all the boasting over modern ‘Welshness’), but people here will put up with it as long as we stay British too. Nationalism is just an easy string to pull here. Ask a Welsh person, are you not Welsh? and they’ll say 'well if you must' for anything."
Some very good points, very well put. Thankyou.
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"The vast majority of people in Wales don't want independence, despite the economic nonsense of it all.
They conducted a poll a few years back where over 80% in Wales happily identified as nationally British and were happy remaining so.
The problem with the Welsh Assembly referendum of 1997, was that is was passed by effectively 50% of a 50% turnout - that means it was supported by only 25% of the electorate in Wales. It had problems ever since, but it took to closing ranks and just taking things when it could. For example more tax powers - we were promised a referendum, but everything is on the sly here. This was the warning back in the day though - it's a runaway train almost by definition. The now-empowered nationalists will never be happy until we are either Federally or completely independent.
Also, they ring-fenced the Welsh Language/nationalism budget all the way through Austerity, and have literally spent billions watching interest in it slide. (We pay through the nose for bilingual everything and Welsh-only positions like lawyers that are never used.)
That despite them criminally transforming a number of local English-speaking schools into 'Welsh Medium' ones.
Wales has at various times during Austerity had the worst statistics on everything bad in the UK. From unemployment to suicide. They blame London every time. It's too easy to do.
And Labour here is centrist at heart- which doesn't suit Wales as a whole at all. Labour here is not as strong as they used to be - it's why they keep having to do deals with other parties to get their stuff through. Drakeford (our new emperor emeritus after Carwyn's resignation) is more on the left, but is a bit of a sap, sadly. But at least he’s there now.
The Assembly exaggerated the Welsh language’s post-Assembly take-up from the outset, so it was always going to slide. It's not a 'living language', as people have to combine too much English with it for modern communication, and there is no likelihood of you being understood by most locals either when using it.
But the Welsh Language is the 'big difference' of the Welsh Assembly. The other good stuff (when you can find it- Cardiff centre looks good etc) would have happened anyway - which is how you should look at/compare these things.
The Welsh Language issue has upset a huge amount of people in Wales, but you can't officially complain about it (seeing things in only Welsh for example) - you can only complain if you see too much English! Despite the equality law. We pay for a complaints procedure (as we pay for everything to be doubled in Welsh, from civic emails to endless junk, to hospital bin signs), but when you complain about the ‘wrong’ issue with this, they send you away. The MPs and AM's say they won't touch the subject, and the Ombudsmen sends you back to the complaints people. It's actually not nice at all.
Despite all the post-Assembly millennials they've attempted to indoctrinate in flag-waving schools (with some success but not enough), I honestly don't think the Welsh Assembly would pass it a referendum if one was held now. They've offered their new-era kids all the age-pay cliqy jobs in town - but only if they keep up with their Welsh. It’s all too much and too vulgar (I feel embarrassed at times of all the boasting over modern ‘Welshness’), but people here will put up with it as long as we stay British too. Nationalism is just an easy string to pull here. Ask a Welsh person, are you not Welsh? and they’ll say 'well if you must' for anything."
Exactly this |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Rexit is a great idea. How much money does Wales send to London? Let's spend that on the NHS instead. And we've had enough of rules being sent over from Parliament without us having a say. Some even come from a bunch of unelected people. And did you know there is something like 65m people in the rest of the UK. They could all come and live in Wales if they wanted. We wouldn't even have a choice. Our infrastructure would break.
And don't come at me with problems like currency. The MPs can sort all that out. That's what we pay them for. Plus there's technology. Haven't you heard if bitcoin? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Who,s to say that they will share assets and liabilities? england could just say ok you choose to leave goodbye and good luck."
Because England does not exist.
As a state.
A country, a nation, yes.
But like Scotland, it signed away its sovereignty in 1707.
English Parliament was abolished.
The state now is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
The only way to divvy that up is on a per capita basis.
England owns nothing, Scotland owns nothing, Wales owns nothing, Northern Ireland owns nothing.
It's all up for grabs. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Wales would lose alot by brexit as they receive alot of funds from the eu. I heard they get somewhere around 5 billion euros from 2014 to 2020 in the eu budget period. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Yes, Wales, Cornwall, Merseyside and the Highlands & Islands benefited from lots of European Regional Development Funding.
Because their GDP was below 75% of the EU average.
When Eastern Europe came into the EU, the average changed and they lost out.
It's all about spending money in the areas of greatest need.
Unfortunately, we appear to be ruled by people who believe spending should be aimed towards those with least need.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To me its just not feasible to run the country without the money from the uk as a whole.Also if independence came after brexit it could take wales years to get into the eu if ever as it would need to meet the eu,s fiscal requirements.This also goes for scotland the snp still have not explained what money they would use as if they were independent and kept sterling they would still be run by the bank of england ."
Be positive, anything is possible if you climb down off your hamster wheel of Doom  |
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"To me its just not feasible to run the country without the money from the uk as a whole.Also if independence came after brexit it could take wales years to get into the eu if ever as it would need to meet the eu,s fiscal requirements.This also goes for scotland the snp still have not explained what money they would use as if they were independent and kept sterling they would still be run by the bank of england .
Be positive, anything is possible if you climb down off your hamster wheel of Doom "
Exactly this
Energized and can do |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To me its just not feasible to run the country without the money from the uk as a whole.Also if independence came after brexit it could take wales years to get into the eu if ever as it would need to meet the eu,s fiscal requirements.This also goes for scotland the snp still have not explained what money they would use as if they were independent and kept sterling they would still be run by the bank of england .
Be positive, anything is possible if you climb down off your hamster wheel of Doom
Exactly this
Energized and can do "
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It is true that Britain needs all of its British assets to survive.
Imagine if the rest of the UK suddenly wanted to kick out of Scotland? We could never afford to pay them the return on their historic investments, especially of our sovereign capital city.
Forget the credit rating as an A number - think of it as this: the more you have the more you can work with, and the more secure you fundamentally are.
All the independence we have has come out of bad management, not from any other need at all. And Bad Man Blair was obsessed on devolving responsibility, from councils to countries to eventually the Catholic church. |
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So Wales voted to leave, 17 councils voting leave and only 5 voting stay.
So let’s have a thread suggesting Wales could become independent of England ( something else the Welsh voted on NOT wanting ) and stay in the EU!
Only on fab......  |
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"It is true that Britain needs all of its British assets to survive.
Imagine if the rest of the UK suddenly wanted to kick out of Scotland? We could never afford to pay them the return on their historic investments, especially of our sovereign capital city.
Forget the credit rating as an A number - think of it as this: the more you have the more you can work with, and the more secure you fundamentally are.
All the independence we have has come out of bad management, not from any other need at all. And Bad Man Blair was obsessed on devolving responsibility, from councils to countries to eventually the Catholic church."
kick out Scotland I mean (not out of). |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"So Wales voted to leave, 17 councils voting leave and only 5 voting stay.
So let’s have a thread suggesting Wales could become independent of England ( something else the Welsh voted on NOT wanting ) and stay in the EU!
Only on fab...... "
My original question was about Wales being independent of the UK, following the recent growth in people attending independence events.
Regarding the EU, I only suggested that Welsh independence might be easier to acheive if Wales was to join or partner with the EU. However, the main topic of this was whether Wales could be successfully independent of the UK.
There has been an enjoyable and interesting debate above.
Sorry if you don't like it...... |
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" However, Scotland already doesn't conform entirely with English currency. If you've ever tried to spend a Scottish pound note in Manchester, you'll know what I mean.
Scotland does.
It uses the same currency as everybody else.
It's just snotty ignorant fuckers in England who do not recognise Sterling when they see it.
"
I travel 2 or 3 times a year down to England visiting family in various parts of Yorkshire (and Bristol!). Of the hundreds of times I've offered bank notes issued by the Scottish banks to shops, pubs etc only once have they been refused. That one occasion was a shop in a tiny village where the elderly lady at the counter had obviously never seen one before so was understandably wary. |
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"How about the 'League of Celtic Nations'... Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.... join together and join EU?
That would give a combined population of around 10.3 million. That would be more than Portugal which is currently the 12th largest (by population) country in the EU (out of 28).
I do like the idea!
Only one potential problem, there's currently only 5 swingers clubs listed for the 3 countries, not sure they could cope with a potential average membership of 2 million people per club?
"
That would make for one hell of a party |
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