FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Are you a remainer or a brexiter?
Are you a remainer or a brexiter?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I have noticed that we have many new posters and it would be fun to see what we all are and stand for.
I am a remainer and I stand for a united nation, justice to northern ireland  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I have noticed that we have many new posters and it would be fun to see what we all are and stand for.
I am a remainer and I stand for a united nation, justice to northern ireland
Fun ?
 "
Yes, it can be that lol.
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"I have noticed that we have many new posters and it would be fun to see what we all are and stand for.
I am a remainer and I stand for a united nation, justice to northern ireland
Fun ?
Yes, it can be that lol.
"
I love your optimism Shag
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I have noticed that we have many new posters and it would be fun to see what we all are and stand for.
I am a remainer and I stand for a united nation, justice to northern ireland
Fun ?
Yes, it can be that lol.
I love your optimism Shag
"
Ty and yes, it is good to have it too |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have noticed that we have many new posters and it would be fun to see what we all are and stand for.
I am a remainer and I stand for a united nation, justice to northern ireland "
Remainer but fully believe we should leave the European Union even though I'm yet to see a valid argument how we are better off doing so. |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
neither a remainer or a leaver didnt vote last time and wouldnt vote if the re run it.although for comedy value it hysterical listening to rabid leavers and rabid remainers losing there shit over something they have no control over. i meen if 650 m.ps aint got a fucking clue how to solve it im pretty sure any self identifying brexit experts wont have a fucking clue either.whatever happens at least half the country is gona be extremley fucked off |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I voted remain.
Reasons. I can't see how Putting tarrifs and frictional costs on c 15% of your gbp isn't going to cause economic issues. Putting tarrifs on a large volume of imports is likely to push up the cost of living. I can't see where there is going to be significant economic upside to offset this.
And if the other reasons I see people voting leave, I see little evidence to say eu immigration is causing problems today. Nor have seen any eu directive we voted against but has significant impact on us.
I understand that there is a fear we could see high immigration and could see a low we don't like. I just don't see it being a big risk atm and one we couldnt mitigate against. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"I have noticed that we have many new posters and it would be fun to see what we all are and stand for.
I am a remainer and I stand for a united nation, justice to northern ireland "
Same old question how many times are we meant to answer,interrogation will not change minds |
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I was remain for the vote and am 100% for revoking Article 50 now, even if we have to leave, so that the country could get the best outcome, without the time pressure. It's clearly better to remain in the EU, for many reasons - economic, to a huge extent and to gain the benefits of all of the trade agreements versus none that will be as good and leave us with the enviable trading position that we have today, as well as respecting the Good Friday agreement and peace/safety for millions of people. If the UK is to split, it should also be because of what's directly wanted, rather than indirectly festering from a conservative party desperate for power at any price
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have noticed that we have many new posters and it would be fun to see what we all are and stand for.
I am a remainer and I stand for a united nation, justice to northern ireland Same old question how many times are we meant to answer,interrogation will not change minds"
Someone needs to tell hunt and Boris this. It seems to be their plan A. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"neither a remainer or a leaver didnt vote last time and wouldnt vote if the re run it.although for comedy value it hysterical listening to rabid leavers and rabid remainers losing there shit over something they have no control over. i meen if 650 m.ps aint got a fucking clue how to solve it im pretty sure any self identifying brexit experts wont have a fucking clue either.whatever happens at least half the country is gona be extremley fucked off"
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"I met two conservative leavers today who said they've now switched to remain and will vote lib dem/green .
I was surprised they are considering green..  "
You shouldn't be. I voted Green in the locals and probably will again next time too. |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
"I have noticed that we have many new posters and it would be fun to see what we all are and stand for.
I am a remainer and I stand for a united nation, justice to northern ireland "
How? I am sure you want N.Ireland to be repatriated back to Ireland and for Scotland to have an Independence vote, which would mean a break up of The Union. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I have noticed that we have many new posters and it would be fun to see what we all are and stand for.
I am a remainer and I stand for a united nation, justice to northern ireland
How? I am sure you want N.Ireland to be repatriated back to Ireland and for Scotland to have an Independence vote, which would mean a break up of The Union. "
No, not at all, it is to keep it as it, as as northern ireland wants to still be in the eu |
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"I have noticed that we have many new posters and it would be fun to see what we all are and stand for.
I am a remainer and I stand for a united nation, justice to northern ireland
How? I am sure you want N.Ireland to be repatriated back to Ireland and for Scotland to have an Independence vote, which would mean a break up of The Union. No, not at all, it is to keep it as it, as as northern ireland wants to still be in the eu "
So you don't want justice, just to keep things as they are!  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I have noticed that we have many new posters and it would be fun to see what we all are and stand for.
I am a remainer and I stand for a united nation, justice to northern ireland
How? I am sure you want N.Ireland to be repatriated back to Ireland and for Scotland to have an Independence vote, which would mean a break up of The Union. No, not at all, it is to keep it as it, as as northern ireland wants to still be in the eu
So you don't want justice, just to keep things as they are! "
Yes I do. I explained it above, as with brexit, the union will brake up, so the justice would be to have it as it is and to be in the eu  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I am a Remainer but only because I believe that the current turmoil, mess and uncertainty has been created by the 'change' needed to achieve an unknown Brexit ...Whereas Remain would have meant 'no change' and status quo. In other words we should have let sleeping dogs lie.. |
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"I have noticed that we have many new posters and it would be fun to see what we all are and stand for.
I am a remainer and I stand for a united nation, justice to northern ireland
How? I am sure you want N.Ireland to be repatriated back to Ireland and for Scotland to have an Independence vote, which would mean a break up of The Union. No, not at all, it is to keep it as it, as as northern ireland wants to still be in the eu
So you don't want justice, just to keep things as they are! Yes I do. I explained it above, as with brexit, the union will brake up, so the justice would be to have it as it is and to be in the eu "
"Justice to Nortern Island" it's just a silly slogan like the one you are quick to ridicule, "brexit means brexit", that one was made up by a remainer too! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have noticed that we have many new posters and it would be fun to see what we all are and stand for.
I am a remainer and I stand for a united nation, justice to northern ireland "
I'm a Brexiteer, and have joined the Brexit party as a registered supporter. If Boris becomes Prime minister and doesn't deliver Brexit as promised by October 31st the Tories are finished and the Brexit party will clean up at the next general election. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am a Remainer but only because I believe that the current turmoil, mess and uncertainty has been created by the 'change' needed to achieve an unknown Brexit ...Whereas Remain would have meant 'no change' and status quo. In other words we should have let sleeping dogs lie.."
Remain doesn't mean 'no change' and status quo. As the new EU Commission President has already said she wants deeper EU integration and an EU Army.
The sooner we are out from the undemocratic madhouse in Brussels the better. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Tricky one. I'm a remainer at heart. But Brexit could hasten independence for Wales so I'm torn. "
Why would it hasten independence for Wales when a majority in Wales voted for Brexit. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I am a Remainer but only because I believe that the current turmoil, mess and uncertainty has been created by the 'change' needed to achieve an unknown Brexit ...Whereas Remain would have meant 'no change' and status quo. In other words we should have let sleeping dogs lie..
Remain doesn't mean 'no change' and status quo. As the new EU Commission President has already said she wants deeper EU integration and an EU Army.
The sooner we are out from the undemocratic madhouse in Brussels the better. "
Over which everyone has a veto.
Yawn. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I have noticed that we have many new posters and it would be fun to see what we all are and stand for.
I am a remainer and I stand for a united nation, justice to northern ireland
I'm a Brexiteer, and have joined the Brexit party as a registered supporter. If Boris becomes Prime minister and doesn't deliver Brexit as promised by October 31st the Tories are finished and the Brexit party will clean up at the next general election. "
Do you have any say over party policies or candidates or who the leadership are? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I have noticed that we have many new posters and it would be fun to see what we all are and stand for.
I am a remainer and I stand for a united nation, justice to northern ireland
How? I am sure you want N.Ireland to be repatriated back to Ireland and for Scotland to have an Independence vote, which would mean a break up of The Union. No, not at all, it is to keep it as it, as as northern ireland wants to still be in the eu
So you don't want justice, just to keep things as they are! Yes I do. I explained it above, as with brexit, the union will brake up, so the justice would be to have it as it is and to be in the eu
"Justice to Nortern Island" it's just a silly slogan like the one you are quick to ridicule, "brexit means brexit", that one was made up by a remainer too! "
No and as usual we have to agree to disagree. |
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"I have noticed that we have many new posters and it would be fun to see what we all are and stand for.
I am a remainer and I stand for a united nation, justice to northern ireland
How? I am sure you want N.Ireland to be repatriated back to Ireland and for Scotland to have an Independence vote, which would mean a break up of The Union. No, not at all, it is to keep it as it, as as northern ireland wants to still be in the eu
So you don't want justice, just to keep things as they are! Yes I do. I explained it above, as with brexit, the union will brake up, so the justice would be to have it as it is and to be in the eu
"Justice to Nortern Island" it's just a silly slogan like the one you are quick to ridicule, "brexit means brexit", that one was made up by a remainer too! No and as usual we have to agree to disagree."
Lol, I think it means you haven't got an answer! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am a Remainer but only because I believe that the current turmoil, mess and uncertainty has been created by the 'change' needed to achieve an unknown Brexit ...Whereas Remain would have meant 'no change' and status quo. In other words we should have let sleeping dogs lie..
Remain doesn't mean 'no change' and status quo. As the new EU Commission President has already said she wants deeper EU integration and an EU Army.
The sooner we are out from the undemocratic madhouse in Brussels the better.
Over which everyone has a veto.
Yawn."
Indeed, everyone has to unanimously vote for any major changes to take effect and when Farage stated all his lies about this on his own radio show a caller phoned in and told him straight that he was outright lying. Farage has a massive gammon moment and cut the guy off |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am a Remainer but only because I believe that the current turmoil, mess and uncertainty has been created by the 'change' needed to achieve an unknown Brexit ...Whereas Remain would have meant 'no change' and status quo. In other words we should have let sleeping dogs lie..
Remain doesn't mean 'no change' and status quo. As the new EU Commission President has already said she wants deeper EU integration and an EU Army.
The sooner we are out from the undemocratic madhouse in Brussels the better.
Over which everyone has a veto.
Yawn.
Indeed, everyone has to unanimously vote for any major changes to take effect and when Farage stated all his lies about this on his own radio show a caller phoned in and told him straight that he was outright lying. Farage has a massive gammon moment and cut the guy off "
You can't deny that it is on the EU's agenda and the new leadership of the EU has this vision of a Federal United States of Europe for the future. That is the direction the EU is heading in, and to say a vote for Remain is a vote for no change and to maintain the Status quo is frankly ridiculous. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am a Remainer but only because I believe that the current turmoil, mess and uncertainty has been created by the 'change' needed to achieve an unknown Brexit ...Whereas Remain would have meant 'no change' and status quo. In other words we should have let sleeping dogs lie..
Remain doesn't mean 'no change' and status quo. As the new EU Commission President has already said she wants deeper EU integration and an EU Army.
The sooner we are out from the undemocratic madhouse in Brussels the better.
Over which everyone has a veto.
Yawn.
Indeed, everyone has to unanimously vote for any major changes to take effect and when Farage stated all his lies about this on his own radio show a caller phoned in and told him straight that he was outright lying. Farage has a massive gammon moment and cut the guy off
You can't deny that it is on the EU's agenda and the new leadership of the EU has this vision of a Federal United States of Europe for the future. That is the direction the EU is heading in, and to say a vote for Remain is a vote for no change and to maintain the Status quo is frankly ridiculous. "
I don't disagree with you at all on some of that. Yes it might be the dream of the In coming European President to have a European army though we have no idea in what form this would be and closer integration but and it's a huge BUT, changes like this would need unanimous support from every single state and that includes the UK.
So scare mongering that we would be forced into things like this are just project fear and scare mongering. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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So without unanimously supporting major changes to the EU remaining relatively unchanged would have been the way forward, so it isn't frankly ludicrous, is it? |
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"I am a Remainer but only because I believe that the current turmoil, mess and uncertainty has been created by the 'change' needed to achieve an unknown Brexit ...Whereas Remain would have meant 'no change' and status quo. In other words we should have let sleeping dogs lie..
Remain doesn't mean 'no change' and status quo. As the new EU Commission President has already said she wants deeper EU integration and an EU Army.
The sooner we are out from the undemocratic madhouse in Brussels the better.
Over which everyone has a veto.
Yawn.
Indeed, everyone has to unanimously vote for any major changes to take effect and when Farage stated all his lies about this on his own radio show a caller phoned in and told him straight that he was outright lying. Farage has a massive gammon moment and cut the guy off
You can't deny that it is on the EU's agenda and the new leadership of the EU has this vision of a Federal United States of Europe for the future. That is the direction the EU is heading in, and to say a vote for Remain is a vote for no change and to maintain the Status quo is frankly ridiculous.
I don't disagree with you at all on some of that. Yes it might be the dream of the In coming European President to have a European army though we have no idea in what form this would be and closer integration but and it's a huge BUT, changes like this would need unanimous support from every single state and that includes the UK.
So scare mongering that we would be forced into things like this are just project fear and scare mongering. "
Hearing her talk about moving away from unanimous support and favouring qualified majority has to make you think, “hang on a minute”
Ironically for such a change to take place it would need a unanimous decision
Still makes you think what else she has up her sleeve. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I am a Remainer but only because I believe that the current turmoil, mess and uncertainty has been created by the 'change' needed to achieve an unknown Brexit ...Whereas Remain would have meant 'no change' and status quo. In other words we should have let sleeping dogs lie..
Remain doesn't mean 'no change' and status quo. As the new EU Commission President has already said she wants deeper EU integration and an EU Army.
The sooner we are out from the undemocratic madhouse in Brussels the better.
Over which everyone has a veto.
Yawn.
Indeed, everyone has to unanimously vote for any major changes to take effect and when Farage stated all his lies about this on his own radio show a caller phoned in and told him straight that he was outright lying. Farage has a massive gammon moment and cut the guy off
You can't deny that it is on the EU's agenda and the new leadership of the EU has this vision of a Federal United States of Europe for the future. That is the direction the EU is heading in, and to say a vote for Remain is a vote for no change and to maintain the Status quo is frankly ridiculous.
I don't disagree with you at all on some of that. Yes it might be the dream of the In coming European President to have a European army though we have no idea in what form this would be and closer integration but and it's a huge BUT, changes like this would need unanimous support from every single state and that includes the UK.
So scare mongering that we would be forced into things like this are just project fear and scare mongering.
Hearing her talk about moving away from unanimous support and favouring qualified majority has to make you think, “hang on a minute”
Ironically for such a change to take place it would need a unanimous decision
Still makes you think what else she has up her sleeve."
You have to admit that last comment is a bit "tin foil hat" |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Brexit: taking back control of something you never lost in order to give up everything you have
UK's nett financial contribution to the EU - £9bn
Boris Johnson's tax reduction for high earners - £9bn
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In it's present form we have to leave the Eu...had it
remained a free trade/ business project...it would have been great.sadly as we all know the EU is out of control . Our great country and it's proud citizens will be fine . |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"In it's present form we have to leave the Eu...had it
remained a free trade/ business project...it would have been great.sadly as we all know the EU is out of control . Our great country and it's proud citizens will be fine ."
You believe this because you see the EU through a British lens, that it ought to be about free trade only.
That is not how the rest of Europe sees it. The purpose of the EU runs so much deeper than that and is rooted in the rehabilitation of Europe after the genocidal wars of 1939-45.
To suggest the EU is out of control merely underlines the complete failure of many in the UK to understand what the EU is actually about.
It is very much in control, just not in the control of the British. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"..had it remained a free trade/ business project...it would have been great.
That’s exactly it "
What comes under a business project? Aligning of rules to help trade? Allowing business to access European workers regardless of where their premises are?
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"In it's present form we have to leave the Eu...had it
remained a free trade/ business project...it would have been great.sadly as we all know the EU is out of control . Our great country and it's proud citizens will be fine ."
Brexiters... Wanting no part of EU rules, despite our own country being instrumental in creating them and having a veto over them. Prefer instead to accept WTO rules which are arbitrary and on which the UK has no say.
"Bring on the WTO elections - we want democracy." lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"In it's present form we have to leave the Eu...had it
remained a free trade/ business project...it would have been great.sadly as we all know the EU is out of control . Our great country and it's proud citizens will be fine ."
This is a great post. For me it encapsulates the root of the problem. Lack of education. Other EU countries teach the kids in school what the EU is, how it works and why it was put together in the first place.
In the absence of education, people get their info from The Daily Mail or the Daily Express, or Twitter. And hence why it was so easy to convince people to vote for something that is damaging them, while benefitting those who they think they're giving two fingers to. |
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"In it's present form we have to leave the Eu...had it
remained a free trade/ business project...it would have been great.sadly as we all know the EU is out of control . Our great country and it's proud citizens will be fine .
This is a great post. For me it encapsulates the root of the problem. Lack of education. Other EU countries teach the kids in school what the EU is, how it works and why it was put together in the first place.
In the absence of education, people get their info from The Daily Mail or the Daily Express, or Twitter. And hence why it was so easy to convince people to vote for something that is damaging them, while benefitting those who they think they're giving two fingers to."
Works both ways.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"In it's present form we have to leave the Eu...had it
remained a free trade/ business project...it would have been great.sadly as we all know the EU is out of control . Our great country and it's proud citizens will be fine .
This is a great post. For me it encapsulates the root of the problem. Lack of education. Other EU countries teach the kids in school what the EU is, how it works and why it was put together in the first place.
In the absence of education, people get their info from The Daily Mail or the Daily Express, or Twitter. And hence why it was so easy to convince people to vote for something that is damaging them, while benefitting those who they think they're giving two fingers to.
Works both ways...."
I completely agree with you.
But imagine of we had a population that understood the EU. We wouldn't have voted leave and wouldn't be in the mess we are in now. |
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"In it's present form we have to leave the Eu...had it
remained a free trade/ business project...it would have been great.sadly as we all know the EU is out of control . Our great country and it's proud citizens will be fine .
This is a great post. For me it encapsulates the root of the problem. Lack of education. Other EU countries teach the kids in school what the EU is, how it works and why it was put together in the first place.
In the absence of education, people get their info from The Daily Mail or the Daily Express, or Twitter. And hence why it was so easy to convince people to vote for something that is damaging them, while benefitting those who they think they're giving two fingers to.
Works both ways...."
It does, but the Mail and Express (and Sun) are particularly flagrant at anti-EU lies and distortion. There isn't really the equivalent media outlet out their putting huge spin on the EU being positive. Even something like the Guardian isn't having front page stories about how amazing the EU is. |
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"In it's present form we have to leave the Eu...had it
remained a free trade/ business project...it would have been great.sadly as we all know the EU is out of control . Our great country and it's proud citizens will be fine .
This is a great post. For me it encapsulates the root of the problem. Lack of education. Other EU countries teach the kids in school what the EU is, how it works and why it was put together in the first place.
In the absence of education, people get their info from The Daily Mail or the Daily Express, or Twitter. And hence why it was so easy to convince people to vote for something that is damaging them, while benefitting those who they think they're giving two fingers to.
Works both ways....
I completely agree with you.
But imagine of we had a population that understood the EU. We wouldn't have voted leave and wouldn't be in the mess we are in now."
But we did, and we’re leaving |
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"In it's present form we have to leave the Eu...had it
remained a free trade/ business project...it would have been great.sadly as we all know the EU is out of control . Our great country and it's proud citizens will be fine .
This is a great post. For me it encapsulates the root of the problem. Lack of education. Other EU countries teach the kids in school what the EU is, how it works and why it was put together in the first place.
In the absence of education, people get their info from The Daily Mail or the Daily Express, or Twitter. And hence why it was so easy to convince people to vote for something that is damaging them, while benefitting those who they think they're giving two fingers to.
Works both ways....
I completely agree with you.
But imagine of we had a population that understood the EU. We wouldn't have voted leave and wouldn't be in the mess we are in now."
Think you need an angry emotional wank to release some of your tension mate |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"In it's present form we have to leave the Eu...had it
remained a free trade/ business project...it would have been great.sadly as we all know the EU is out of control . Our great country and it's proud citizens will be fine .
This is a great post. For me it encapsulates the root of the problem. Lack of education. Other EU countries teach the kids in school what the EU is, how it works and why it was put together in the first place.
In the absence of education, people get their info from The Daily Mail or the Daily Express, or Twitter. And hence why it was so easy to convince people to vote for something that is damaging them, while benefitting those who they think they're giving two fingers to.
Works both ways....
I completely agree with you.
But imagine of we had a population that understood the EU. We wouldn't have voted leave and wouldn't be in the mess we are in now.
But we did, and we’re leaving "
By saying that, you are almost suggesting the people didn't know what they were voting for (or maybe voting against)
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"In it's present form we have to leave the Eu...had it
remained a free trade/ business project...it would have been great.sadly as we all know the EU is out of control . Our great country and it's proud citizens will be fine .
This is a great post. For me it encapsulates the root of the problem. Lack of education. Other EU countries teach the kids in school what the EU is, how it works and why it was put together in the first place.
In the absence of education, people get their info from The Daily Mail or the Daily Express, or Twitter. And hence why it was so easy to convince people to vote for something that is damaging them, while benefitting those who they think they're giving two fingers to.
Works both ways....
I completely agree with you.
But imagine of we had a population that understood the EU. We wouldn't have voted leave and wouldn't be in the mess we are in now.
But we did, and we’re leaving
By saying that, you are almost suggesting the people didn't know what they were voting for (or maybe voting against)
"
My apologies if that didn’t come across correctly, more like we had all the info, we understood the choices and we voted to leave, end of |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"In it's present form we have to leave the Eu...had it
remained a free trade/ business project...it would have been great.sadly as we all know the EU is out of control . Our great country and it's proud citizens will be fine .
This is a great post. For me it encapsulates the root of the problem. Lack of education. Other EU countries teach the kids in school what the EU is, how it works and why it was put together in the first place.
In the absence of education, people get their info from The Daily Mail or the Daily Express, or Twitter. And hence why it was so easy to convince people to vote for something that is damaging them, while benefitting those who they think they're giving two fingers to.
Works both ways....
I completely agree with you.
But imagine of we had a population that understood the EU. We wouldn't have voted leave and wouldn't be in the mess we are in now.
But we did, and we’re leaving
By saying that, you are almost suggesting the people didn't know what they were voting for (or maybe voting against)
My apologies if that didn’t come across correctly, more like we had all the info, we understood the choices and we voted to leave, end of "
Aha. You're saying we did understand the EU.
I'm not convinced.
I'm not convinced the public understands what is covered by WTO and what trading on "wto terms" means. I say this because I've heard Bojo, JRM and Farage talk about using article 24. If they don't understand the articles in wto, how can we expect the general public too?
I'm not convinced people understood how closely tied an arrangement and peace in Ireland are, nor that this information was readily available at the point of the referendum.
Tbh, I'm not even convinced everyone has the understanding of percentages versus relative values and an understanding of the danger of using one rather than the other in some circumstances. |
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"In it's present form we have to leave the Eu...had it
remained a free trade/ business project...it would have been great.sadly as we all know the EU is out of control . Our great country and it's proud citizens will be fine .
This is a great post. For me it encapsulates the root of the problem. Lack of education. Other EU countries teach the kids in school what the EU is, how it works and why it was put together in the first place.
In the absence of education, people get their info from The Daily Mail or the Daily Express, or Twitter. And hence why it was so easy to convince people to vote for something that is damaging them, while benefitting those who they think they're giving two fingers to.
Works both ways....
I completely agree with you.
But imagine of we had a population that understood the EU. We wouldn't have voted leave and wouldn't be in the mess we are in now.
But we did, and we’re leaving
By saying that, you are almost suggesting the people didn't know what they were voting for (or maybe voting against)
My apologies if that didn’t come across correctly, more like we had all the info, we understood the choices and we voted to leave, end of
Aha. You're saying we did understand the EU.
I'm not convinced.
I'm not convinced the public understands what is covered by WTO and what trading on "wto terms" means. I say this because I've heard Bojo, JRM and Farage talk about using article 24. If they don't understand the articles in wto, how can we expect the general public too?
I'm not convinced people understood how closely tied an arrangement and peace in Ireland are, nor that this information was readily available at the point of the referendum.
Tbh, I'm not even convinced everyone has the understanding of percentages versus relative values and an understanding of the danger of using one rather than the other in some circumstances. "
Where did I say myself, you or anyone understand the EU ? I said we understood the choices
And luckily my vote opinion or anyone’s vote or opinion is not based on trying to convince you of anything, it’s irrelevant what your convinced of or not convinced of
What a silly reply |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"In it's present form we have to leave the Eu...had it
remained a free trade/ business project...it would have been great.sadly as we all know the EU is out of control . Our great country and it's proud citizens will be fine .
This is a great post. For me it encapsulates the root of the problem. Lack of education. Other EU countries teach the kids in school what the EU is, how it works and why it was put together in the first place.
In the absence of education, people get their info from The Daily Mail or the Daily Express, or Twitter. And hence why it was so easy to convince people to vote for something that is damaging them, while benefitting those who they think they're giving two fingers to.
Works both ways....
I completely agree with you.
But imagine of we had a population that understood the EU. We wouldn't have voted leave and wouldn't be in the mess we are in now.
But we did, and we’re leaving
By saying that, you are almost suggesting the people didn't know what they were voting for (or maybe voting against)
My apologies if that didn’t come across correctly, more like we had all the info, we understood the choices and we voted to leave, end of
Aha. You're saying we did understand the EU.
I'm not convinced.
I'm not convinced the public understands what is covered by WTO and what trading on "wto terms" means. I say this because I've heard Bojo, JRM and Farage talk about using article 24. If they don't understand the articles in wto, how can we expect the general public too?
I'm not convinced people understood how closely tied an arrangement and peace in Ireland are, nor that this information was readily available at the point of the referendum.
Tbh, I'm not even convinced everyone has the understanding of percentages versus relative values and an understanding of the danger of using one rather than the other in some circumstances.
Where did I say myself, you or anyone understand the EU ? I said we understood the choices
And luckily my vote opinion or anyone’s vote or opinion is not based on trying to convince you of anything, it’s irrelevant what your convinced of or not convinced of
What a silly reply "
Okay, so we had all the info (maybe), we understood the choices (stay or leave) but we didn't understand the consequences of our choices? Either because it's difficult to understand all the information. Or we chose not to.
I probably shouldn't have replied in full until I understand your position.
And I fully know its not your job to convince me. I never wished to imply it was.
I miss understood and thought you said the people had a good idea about what would happen if they voted leave (or indeed remain). Now I think your saying people understood the question. Just didn't fully understand what their answer would (or could) lead us to/away from.
Or maybe you are saying it's as simple as they didn't know what is needed to be "in the eu" (eg for any given country, what needs to be in place to say they are in the eu)... After all you need to know what is needed to be counted as being in, or order to known you have left!
Feel free to clarify.
|
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"In it's present form we have to leave the Eu...had it
remained a free trade/ business project...it would have been great.sadly as we all know the EU is out of control . Our great country and it's proud citizens will be fine .
This is a great post. For me it encapsulates the root of the problem. Lack of education. Other EU countries teach the kids in school what the EU is, how it works and why it was put together in the first place.
In the absence of education, people get their info from The Daily Mail or the Daily Express, or Twitter. And hence why it was so easy to convince people to vote for something that is damaging them, while benefitting those who they think they're giving two fingers to.
Works both ways....
I completely agree with you.
But imagine of we had a population that understood the EU. We wouldn't have voted leave and wouldn't be in the mess we are in now.
But we did, and we’re leaving
By saying that, you are almost suggesting the people didn't know what they were voting for (or maybe voting against)
My apologies if that didn’t come across correctly, more like we had all the info, we understood the choices and we voted to leave, end of
Aha. You're saying we did understand the EU.
I'm not convinced.
I'm not convinced the public understands what is covered by WTO and what trading on "wto terms" means. I say this because I've heard Bojo, JRM and Farage talk about using article 24. If they don't understand the articles in wto, how can we expect the general public too?
I'm not convinced people understood how closely tied an arrangement and peace in Ireland are, nor that this information was readily available at the point of the referendum.
Tbh, I'm not even convinced everyone has the understanding of percentages versus relative values and an understanding of the danger of using one rather than the other in some circumstances.
Where did I say myself, you or anyone understand the EU ? I said we understood the choices
And luckily my vote opinion or anyone’s vote or opinion is not based on trying to convince you of anything, it’s irrelevant what your convinced of or not convinced of
What a silly reply
Okay, so we had all the info (maybe), we understood the choices (stay or leave) but we didn't understand the consequences of our choices? Either because it's difficult to understand all the information. Or we chose not to.
I probably shouldn't have replied in full until I understand your position.
And I fully know its not your job to convince me. I never wished to imply it was.
I miss understood and thought you said the people had a good idea about what would happen if they voted leave (or indeed remain). Now I think your saying people understood the question. Just didn't fully understand what their answer would (or could) lead us to/away from.
Or maybe you are saying it's as simple as they didn't know what is needed to be "in the eu" (eg for any given country, what needs to be in place to say they are in the eu)... After all you need to know what is needed to be counted as being in, or order to known you have left!
Feel free to clarify.
"
Can only go on my opinion but I guess some mare share my view, or maybe not.
We had a vote
We voted to leave
Ok from this point on is kind of irrelevant but you can either be scared of change and think the worst and moan a lot all while reading information online that only leans one way. People who like everything done for them
Or like others can also look at things another way and embrace change and look to move forward, these seem to be the type of people who get things done etc, embrace challenges and look to better themselves. They would normally get there information from all sides of the political spectrum and make an informed decision as opposed to a biased one
As I say it’s irrelevant, we voted to leave, so let’s leave |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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That's moved the thread sideways, at least from what I was trying to establish.
I'm not trying to establish what was the result of the vote. Nor say if that should be honoured. Or whether people make sure they get unbiased views (or a mixture of biases). Nor whether we should embrace change.
I simply dont think that, when answering the question, as simple as it seems, that most people (on all sides) had a view which even came close to understanding the implications of what they were voting for.
That's both in the range of outcomes of the negotiation. And the so what of each outcome.
The question was simple at face value. But then so is the question "does the earth orbit the moon?" |
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"That's moved the thread sideways, at least from what I was trying to establish.
I'm not trying to establish what was the result of the vote. Nor say if that should be honoured. Or whether people make sure they get unbiased views (or a mixture of biases). Nor whether we should embrace change.
I simply dont think that, when answering the question, as simple as it seems, that most people (on all sides) had a view which even came close to understanding the implications of what they were voting for.
That's both in the range of outcomes of the negotiation. And the so what of each outcome.
The question was simple at face value. But then so is the question "does the earth orbit the moon?" "
O right I answered ages ago then you went on about having us all to convince you etc
We were given information, I’m sure some interpreted it wrong on both sides, sure some got it 100% right and I’m sure some have changed there mind on both sides since also ,, not sure what your point was
If your point was did 100% of the population or 66 odd million fully understand every single tiny part of brexit , then yes I concede I’m sure at least one person didn’t |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"That's moved the thread sideways, at least from what I was trying to establish.
I'm not trying to establish what was the result of the vote. Nor say if that should be honoured. Or whether people make sure they get unbiased views (or a mixture of biases). Nor whether we should embrace change.
I simply dont think that, when answering the question, as simple as it seems, that most people (on all sides) had a view which even came close to understanding the implications of what they were voting for.
That's both in the range of outcomes of the negotiation. And the so what of each outcome.
The question was simple at face value. But then so is the question "does the earth orbit the moon?"
O right I answered ages ago then you went on about having us all to convince you etc
We were given information, I’m sure some interpreted it wrong on both sides, sure some got it 100% right and I’m sure some have changed there mind on both sides since also ,, not sure what your point was
If your point was did 100% of the population or 66 odd million fully understand every single tiny part of brexit , then yes I concede I’m sure at least one person didn’t "
Do you think the average person have enough of an idea about the risk of no deal, and the consequences of no deal, to have made an informed choice.
I'm not talking minutiae of detail. I'm saying did they understand that without a deal we'd be in "wto terms" and what that meant. Did they understand being out of the eu didn't mean we would, by default, out of a customs union and out of the single market, but these decisions would need to be agreed by MP's. Did they understand if theyvwantwd to be out of SM and CU that meant pretty much being wto. And all that fall out.
I can be honest. I knew we could be out of the eu and in the SM. I though that the type of leave was a decision to be made by MP's afterwards.
I had no idea what wto really was, and how this would effect ireland.
I had no idea that really if we didn't want to be in the SM nor in a customs arrangement there was very little else left as options.
And i spent time thinking about it. And looking at a lot of the information.
|
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"That's moved the thread sideways, at least from what I was trying to establish.
I'm not trying to establish what was the result of the vote. Nor say if that should be honoured. Or whether people make sure they get unbiased views (or a mixture of biases). Nor whether we should embrace change.
I simply dont think that, when answering the question, as simple as it seems, that most people (on all sides) had a view which even came close to understanding the implications of what they were voting for.
That's both in the range of outcomes of the negotiation. And the so what of each outcome.
The question was simple at face value. But then so is the question "does the earth orbit the moon?"
O right I answered ages ago then you went on about having us all to convince you etc
We were given information, I’m sure some interpreted it wrong on both sides, sure some got it 100% right and I’m sure some have changed there mind on both sides since also ,, not sure what your point was
If your point was did 100% of the population or 66 odd million fully understand every single tiny part of brexit , then yes I concede I’m sure at least one person didn’t
Do you think the average person have enough of an idea about the risk of no deal, and the consequences of no deal, to have made an informed choice.
I'm not talking minutiae of detail. I'm saying did they understand that without a deal we'd be in "wto terms" and what that meant. Did they understand being out of the eu didn't mean we would, by default, out of a customs union and out of the single market, but these decisions would need to be agreed by MP's. Did they understand if theyvwantwd to be out of SM and CU that meant pretty much being wto. And all that fall out.
I can be honest. I knew we could be out of the eu and in the SM. I though that the type of leave was a decision to be made by MP's afterwards.
I had no idea what wto really was, and how this would effect ireland.
I had no idea that really if we didn't want to be in the SM nor in a customs arrangement there was very little else left as options.
And i spent time thinking about it. And looking at a lot of the information.
"
Well can’t speak for everyone so only guessing but I’m sure some did and some didn’t, there is lots of information on both side out there
But it comes down to do I know ? Or do you know if they did or not ? There is no possible way of knowing so we are both just guessing |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Whicever ever side you take..History seems likely to report that Boris was a populist posh bloke who got us a No Deal..May's legacy will be as a non person. Cameron's ..EU risk that failed, Blair's unlawful Iraq adventure. Grey man Major and Thatcher beat the Argies and the Miners. |
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"Whicever ever side you take..History seems likely to report that Boris was a populist posh bloke who got us a No Deal..May's legacy will be as a non person. Cameron's ..EU risk that failed, Blair's unlawful Iraq adventure. Grey man Major and Thatcher beat the Argies and the Miners. "
To be fair that’s pretty much spot on |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I have noticed that we have many new posters and it would be fun to see what we all are and stand for.
I am a remainer and I stand for a united nation, justice to northern ireland "
In my heart, I am remain.
But I fear that the majority of the UK needs to depart in order to learn the value of remaining. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Whicever ever side you take..History seems likely to report that Boris was a populist posh bloke who got us a No Deal..May's legacy will be as a non person. Cameron's ..EU risk that failed, Blair's unlawful Iraq adventure. Grey man Major and Thatcher beat the Argies and the Miners.
To be fair that’s pretty much spot on"
Out of that miserable lot, I'd be more than happy if Thatcher was one of my 6 guests for dinner. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I have noticed that we have many new posters and it would be fun to see what we all are and stand for.
I am a remainer and I stand for a united nation, justice to northern ireland
In my heart, I am remain.
But I fear that the majority of the UK needs to depart in order to learn the value of remaining."
I agree and would I vote for a new party called "The I told you so" party.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
In my heart, I am remain.
But I fear that the majority of the UK needs to depart in order to learn the value of remaining."
Couldn't agree with you more |
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"Whicever ever side you take..History seems likely to report that Boris was a populist posh bloke who got us a No Deal..May's legacy will be as a non person. Cameron's ..EU risk that failed, Blair's unlawful Iraq adventure. Grey man Major and Thatcher beat the Argies and the Miners.
To be fair that’s pretty much spot on
Out of that miserable lot, I'd be more than happy if Thatcher was one of my 6 guests for dinner."
She would nick all the milk mind |
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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago
Huddersfield /derby cinemas |
"
In my heart, I am remain.
But I fear that the majority of the UK needs to depart in order to learn the value of remaining.
Couldn't agree with you more "
. But , when the lesson has been learned , I wonder who the leavers will blame for us leaving ?? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
In my heart, I am remain.
But I fear that the majority of the UK needs to depart in order to learn the value of remaining.
Couldn't agree with you more . But , when the lesson has been learned , I wonder who the leavers will blame for us leaving ?? "
I'm sure if Brexit is a total failure then Leavers will hold their hands up and say yep this fuck ups all my doing |
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"
In my heart, I am remain.
But I fear that the majority of the UK needs to depart in order to learn the value of remaining.
Couldn't agree with you more . But , when the lesson has been learned , I wonder who the leavers will blame for us leaving ??
I'm sure if Brexit is a total failure then Leavers will hold their hands up and say yep this fuck ups all my doing "
Don’t see why not, and I’m sure all the remainers will give a big thank you to the leavers if it’s a big success yeah ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
In my heart, I am remain.
But I fear that the majority of the UK needs to depart in order to learn the value of remaining.
Couldn't agree with you more . But , when the lesson has been learned , I wonder who the leavers will blame for us leaving ??
I'm sure if Brexit is a total failure then Leavers will hold their hands up and say yep this fuck ups all my doing
Don’t see why not, and I’m sure all the remainers will give a big thank you to the leavers if it’s a big success yeah ?"
Definitely |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
In my heart, I am remain.
But I fear that the majority of the UK needs to depart in order to learn the value of remaining.
Couldn't agree with you more . But , when the lesson has been learned , I wonder who the leavers will blame for us leaving ?? "
The EU, of course. They made us do it. Blah blah.
|
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"
In my heart, I am remain.
But I fear that the majority of the UK needs to depart in order to learn the value of remaining.
Couldn't agree with you more . But , when the lesson has been learned , I wonder who the leavers will blame for us leaving ??
I'm sure if Brexit is a total failure then Leavers will hold their hands up and say yep this fuck ups all my doing
Don’t see why not, and I’m sure all the remainers will give a big thank you to the leavers if it’s a big success yeah ?
Definitely "
Cool |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I voted remain and would do so again and again. I’m always eager to be convinced otherwise but I haven’t met a single Brexiter who has been able to sway me that we will be better off. Just one more reason to not have children, way too much uncertainty and the ones that will suffer the most are too young to have a say. |
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By *ky19Man
over a year ago
Plymouth OYO Hotel |
If the vote happened now I would vote leave. Though of course on the best terms possible. But if the only terms tabled are going to fuck us and a deal is really just about staying in the EU but without the benefits, then screw that.
Any deal that gets EU mitts off us and stops us being assimilated into their dodgy federal Superstate as planned, should suffice.
In reality, they really aren't going to let us go though without a big ugly fight, just like an abusive partner when you finally decide you've had enough and try to leave.
I'm sure when the iron curtain came down, the nations that had been under that dictatorship didn't go "Good heavens our economy will be ruined, millions will die!"
I reckon they were probably better off for it in the end.
I've wanted to leave since June 2007 when I discovered a bit more what the EU is about. Before that I'd definitely have been Remain. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If the vote happened now I would vote leave. Though of course on the best terms possible. But if the only terms tabled are going to fuck us and a deal is really just about staying in the EU but without the benefits, then screw that.
Any deal that gets EU mitts off us and stops us being assimilated into their dodgy federal Superstate as planned, should suffice.
In reality, they really aren't going to let us go though without a big ugly fight, just like an abusive partner when you finally decide you've had enough and try to leave.
I'm sure when the iron curtain came down, the nations that had been under that dictatorship didn't go "Good heavens our economy will be ruined, millions will die!"
I reckon they were probably better off for it in the end.
I've wanted to leave since June 2007 when I discovered a bit more what the EU is about. Before that I'd definitely have been Remain."
Can you expand on what changed your mind?
My guess from your list is yiu are worried about the eu becoming a superstate and so used this vote as a chance to get off.
Or do you dislike something about the eu today? |
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I voted leave.
I'd rather we had some sort of deal, without the "backstop", and I really believe that May taking "No deal" off the table hindered us getting a better deal.
Now that same thing is happening to Boris.
I'm not sure how things will pan out now, I'm guessing that Boris will be forced to go for a simple majority vote for an election, meaning that all sorts of amendments will get tacked on. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I think many of us are in the position of respecting the referendum and leaving with a deal which unites the whole nation. Not too hard either.
Just need a national unity government to sort this out because brexit should never been sorted by a single faction only. |
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"I think many of us are in the position of respecting the referendum and leaving with a deal which unites the whole nation. Not too hard either.
Just need a national unity government to sort this out because brexit should never been sorted by a single faction only."
I voted to remain but I respect the result of the referendum. I’ve yet to meet a person who can predict the future so who knows what the outcome will be. The EU must be over the moon, we’ve given ourselves nothing to bargain with. https://www.eleanorpalmer.camden.sch.uk/blog/philosophy-the-frog-and-the-scorpion/
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Tricky one. I'm a remainer at heart. But Brexit could hasten independence for Wales so I'm torn.
Why would it hasten independence for Wales when a majority in Wales voted for Brexit. "
The poster said could not would. Big difference. But to answer your question Brexit could lead to a Scottish referendum for independence and this time it could go through. This would inevitably lead to calls for a independence referendum in Wales and for a unification referendum in NI. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Tricky one. I'm a remainer at heart. But Brexit could hasten independence for Wales so I'm torn.
Why would it hasten independence for Wales when a majority in Wales voted for Brexit.
The poster said could not would. Big difference. But to answer your question Brexit could lead to a Scottish referendum for independence and this time it could go through. This would inevitably lead to calls for a independence referendum in Wales and for a unification referendum in NI. "
.
And? |
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"Tricky one. I'm a remainer at heart. But Brexit could hasten independence for Wales so I'm torn.
Why would it hasten independence for Wales when a majority in Wales voted for Brexit.
The poster said could not would. Big difference. But to answer your question Brexit could lead to a Scottish referendum for independence and this time it could go through. This would inevitably lead to calls for a independence referendum in Wales and for a unification referendum in NI. .
And?"
I'm not sure we're here to do your thinking for you. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Tricky one. I'm a remainer at heart. But Brexit could hasten independence for Wales so I'm torn.
Why would it hasten independence for Wales when a majority in Wales voted for Brexit.
The poster said could not would. Big difference. But to answer your question Brexit could lead to a Scottish referendum for independence and this time it could go through. This would inevitably lead to calls for a independence referendum in Wales and for a unification referendum in NI. .
And?"
Work it out for yourself |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Tricky one. I'm a remainer at heart. But Brexit could hasten independence for Wales so I'm torn.
Why would it hasten independence for Wales when a majority in Wales voted for Brexit.
The poster said could not would. Big difference. But to answer your question Brexit could lead to a Scottish referendum for independence and this time it could go through. This would inevitably lead to calls for a independence referendum in Wales and for a unification referendum in NI. .
And?
Work it out for yourself"
He can’t, the poor bloke is confused |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Tricky one. I'm a remainer at heart. But Brexit could hasten independence for Wales so I'm torn.
Why would it hasten independence for Wales when a majority in Wales voted for Brexit.
The poster said could not would. Big difference. But to answer your question Brexit could lead to a Scottish referendum for independence and this time it could go through. This would inevitably lead to calls for a independence referendum in Wales and for a unification referendum in NI. .
And?
Work it out for yourself
He can’t, the poor bloke is confused "
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"I voted leave.
I'd rather we had some sort of deal, without the "backstop", and I really believe that May taking "No deal" off the table hindered us getting a better deal.
Now that same thing is happening to Boris.
I'm not sure how things will pan out now, I'm guessing that Boris will be forced to go for a simple majority vote for an election, meaning that all sorts of amendments will get tacked on."
How does the backstop negatively affect you? I thought that there is an abundance of @alternative arrangements” and therefore the backstop would never be needed. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I do wonder if the EU will collapse after we leave. If it does we will have had a head start and could be leading the race."
How would we be ‘leading the race’ ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I do wonder if the EU will collapse after we leave. If it does we will have had a head start and could be leading the race.
How would we be ‘leading the race’ ? "
In fairness, he's not wrong, we do have a massive head start on the race to the bottom. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"I do wonder if the EU will collapse after we leave. If it does we will have had a head start and could be leading the race."
Ahhhh.... Dear God....
Vainly wishing for the economic collapse of your neighbours in order to justify your own poor decision making. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I do wonder if the EU will collapse after we leave. If it does we will have had a head start and could be leading the race."
To the bottom yes, we'd have a nice head start  |
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