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One rule for electing MPs, none for electing a PM
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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Voting twice in a General Election is a crime punishable with a fine of up to £5000.
In the 2017 General Election, one person was taken to court and eight others received police cautions.
In the Chingford and Woodford Green constituency, a 21-year-old man was fined £150 with £200 costs for voting twice.
So the UK has clear rules and penalties to stop fraud during the election of a member of Parliament.
Not so during the appointment of a Prime Minister, it seems.
The BBC reports today of the discovery that an estimated one thousand members of the Conservative Party have received two ballot papers.
The penalty for voting twice in the appointment of a Prime Minister? Expulsion from the party (assuming the party is even bother to carry out checks).
it appears the UK is appointing a prime minister using a process that is completely outside of any independent scrutiny or regulation.
How does anyone know that this ballot is being conducted fairly?
This looks like a gaping loophole.
What do you think?
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Voting twice in a General Election is a crime punishable with a fine of up to £5000.
In the 2017 General Election, one person was taken to court and eight others received police cautions.
In the Chingford and Woodford Green constituency, a 21-year-old man was fined £150 with £200 costs for voting twice.
So the UK has clear rules and penalties to stop fraud during the election of a member of Parliament.
Not so during the appointment of a Prime Minister, it seems.
The BBC reports today of the discovery that an estimated one thousand members of the Conservative Party have received two ballot papers.
The penalty for voting twice in the appointment of a Prime Minister? Expulsion from the party (assuming the party is even bother to carry out checks).
it appears the UK is appointing a prime minister using a process that is completely outside of any independent scrutiny or regulation.
How does anyone know that this ballot is being conducted fairly?
This looks like a gaping loophole.
What do you think?
"
Do try to contain your excitement about an admin error and wait until someone has actually sent in two ballot papers  I am sure that the voters have the intelligence to know that they only have one vote, just another non story. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Voting twice in a General Election is a crime punishable with a fine of up to £5000.
In the 2017 General Election, one person was taken to court and eight others received police cautions.
In the Chingford and Woodford Green constituency, a 21-year-old man was fined £150 with £200 costs for voting twice.
So the UK has clear rules and penalties to stop fraud during the election of a member of Parliament.
Not so during the appointment of a Prime Minister, it seems.
The BBC reports today of the discovery that an estimated one thousand members of the Conservative Party have received two ballot papers.
The penalty for voting twice in the appointment of a Prime Minister? Expulsion from the party (assuming the party is even bother to carry out checks).
it appears the UK is appointing a prime minister using a process that is completely outside of any independent scrutiny or regulation.
How does anyone know that this ballot is being conducted fairly?
This looks like a gaping loophole.
What do you think?
"
This is hardly a like for like comparison. If any Conservative party members were concerned I am sure that they would take action. Assuming this is simply an error It is an easy one to correct. It only affects members of the Conservative party and is irrelevant to everyone else.
If the result is not what is expected I an sure that Jeremy Hunt or Boris Johnson are quite capable of complaining.
Compare this is the actual election result in Peterborough where there is an on going investigation for election fraud and the winning margin was only 600 votes. In addition a key Labour party member was not only convicted buy served a prison sentence for election fraud .
The election of a Conservative party leader only affects Conservatives , election fraud in Peterborough affects everyone . |
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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
Do try to contain your excitement about an admin error and wait until someone has actually sent in two ballot papers I am sure that the voters have the intelligence to know that they only have one vote, just another non story. "
An election that relies solely on the integrity of the voter isn't worth the paper it is written on.
Why do you think we have laws governing the election of an MP?
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"
Do try to contain your excitement about an admin error and wait until someone has actually sent in two ballot papers I am sure that the voters have the intelligence to know that they only have one vote, just another non story.
An election that relies solely on the integrity of the voter isn't worth the paper it is written on.
Why do you think we have laws governing the election of an MP?
"
Well its not solely reliant on the voter is it? im sure that they know who they sent two papers to and will be rigorous in their checking after all as you keep banging on about its only 160,000 votes. |
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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
OK, let me ask the question a different way.
What legal safeguards are in place to prevent voter fraud in the election of the UK's next Prime Minister?
There is evidence of recent entryist behaviour in the party, with up to 40,000 activtsist trying to pull the contest to the extreme right.
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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago
Huddersfield /derby cinemas |
To vote in a General Election you have to be 18 ,,,, to directly elect our next PM ( as a paid up member of the Tory party ) you can vote at 16 ................................ The Conservative Party do not think it is right that those under 18 be allowed to vote in General Elections |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Voting twice in a General Election is a crime punishable with a fine of up to £5000.
In the 2017 General Election, one person was taken to court and eight others received police cautions.
In the Chingford and Woodford Green constituency, a 21-year-old man was fined £150 with £200 costs for voting twice.
So the UK has clear rules and penalties to stop fraud during the election of a member of Parliament.
Not so during the appointment of a Prime Minister, it seems.
The BBC reports today of the discovery that an estimated one thousand members of the Conservative Party have received two ballot papers.
The penalty for voting twice in the appointment of a Prime Minister? Expulsion from the party (assuming the party is even bother to carry out checks).
it appears the UK is appointing a prime minister using a process that is completely outside of any independent scrutiny or regulation.
How does anyone know that this ballot is being conducted fairly?
This looks like a gaping loophole.
What do you think?
Do try to contain your excitement about an admin error and wait until someone has actually sent in two ballot papers I am sure that the voters have the intelligence to know that they only have one vote, just another non story. "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"OK, let me ask the question a different way.
What legal safeguards are in place to prevent voter fraud in the election of the UK's next Prime Minister?
There is evidence of recent entryist behaviour in the party, with up to 40,000 activtsist trying to pull the contest to the extreme right.
"
I do not think that there need to be any safeguards . You receive a ballot paper and cast a vote . It seems very simple to me. Only party members can vote.
As far as the public are concerned they had their choice of party in 2017. At general elections you vote for the party , not the leader . Democracy in action. . |
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If all the 1000 "second" votes were cast and for the same candidate, extremely unlikely I would suggest, it would only be significant if the total votes cast for each candidate differed by less than 1000.
This doesn't address your contention that the system is questionable but wasn't JC elected leader of Labour by a similar system where 1000's of new £3 members were then eligible to vote for him?
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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Anyway, just more evidence that the next PM will have no credible mandate to do anything, never mind something as extreme as to sever all legal ties overnight with the European Union.
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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago
Huddersfield /derby cinemas |
"OK, let me ask the question a different way.
What legal safeguards are in place to prevent voter fraud in the election of the UK's next Prime Minister?
There is evidence of recent entryist behaviour in the party, with up to 40,000 activtsist trying to pull the contest to the extreme right.
I do not think that there need to be any safeguards . You receive a ballot paper and cast a vote . It seems very simple to me. Only party members can vote.
As far as the public are concerned they had their choice of party in 2017. At general elections you vote for the party , not the leader . Democracy in action. ."
. 16 year olds were not allowed to chose the party of their choicein the 2017 General Election as , they were not allowed a vote , they are allowed to vote for our PM but will not be allowed to vote in the next General Election |
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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
" At general elections you vote for the party , not the leader . Democracy in action. ."
Speak for yourself.
You have a terrible habit of transposing your actions and outlook onto everyone else.
It is not an attractive quality.
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"Labour opened up the process to anyone, that's correct.
The election itself was run by the Electoral Reform Society, which provided some assurance of its validity.
"
I'm pretty sure that this leadership (s) election will also be run if not by the ERS then certainly following their best practice guidelines.
Until there is evidence of some deliberate, coordinated fraud in the process I personally think this whole thing about duplicate ballots being sent out, from the point of view of democracy, is a storm in a tea cup. More cockup than conspiracy. And, let's face it, this government and the party that backs it is not exactly unknown for major cockups over the last few years. Maybe Chris Grayling had some input into the process?
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
" At general elections you vote for the party , not the leader . Democracy in action. .
Speak for yourself.
You have a terrible habit of transposing your actions and outlook onto everyone else.
It is not an attractive quality.
"
No your idea of democracy is if you lose have another vote until you get what you want. |
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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
" At general elections you vote for the party , not the leader . Democracy in action. .
Speak for yourself.
You have a terrible habit of transposing your actions and outlook onto everyone else.
It is not an attractive quality.
No your idea of democracy is if you lose have another vote until you get what you want."
eh?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" At general elections you vote for the party , not the leader . Democracy in action. .
Speak for yourself.
You have a terrible habit of transposing your actions and outlook onto everyone else.
It is not an attractive quality.
"
Hi. It is probably irrelevant as to whether it is an attractive quality.
As things stand the Conservative party have polled more votes than any other and are the governing party. They are simply electing a new leader. I do not think that I will be too embarrassed by supporting the winning party. Are you a fully paid up member of the party. ? If so , maybe report your concerns to the local branch . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"OK, let me ask the question a different way.
What legal safeguards are in place to prevent voter fraud in the election of the UK's next Prime Minister?
There is evidence of recent entryist behaviour in the party, with up to 40,000 activtsist trying to pull the contest to the extreme right.
"
And where did this evidence come from.? |
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"Someone landing in this thread could be forgiven for thinking people were talking about China or North Korea.
 "
Would you be Kim Jong-un getting all worked up again, good job your finger isn't on the nuclear launch button! |
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By *uxinteriorMan
over a year ago
south west , continental |
It's really not worth worrying about. Give it six months or so and perhaps another general election might happen. You can vote for the change you so desperately seek. Perhaps another bunch of clowns may be elected. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The tricky question is, when we vote for a party (which is an intangible concept) what are we really voting for.
Is it something which should not change as the leader changes. Like a manifesto.
Or is it a bit more wooly? And something which is influenced by leadership. |
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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"OK, let me ask the question a different way.
What legal safeguards are in place to prevent voter fraud in the election of the UK's next Prime Minister?
There is evidence of recent entryist behaviour in the party, with up to 40,000 activtsist trying to pull the contest to the extreme right.
And where did this evidence come from.? "
Look it up, lazy fucker.
The revival of Conservative Party membership, from a historic low of 120,000. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"OK, let me ask the question a different way.
What legal safeguards are in place to prevent voter fraud in the election of the UK's next Prime Minister?
There is evidence of recent entryist behaviour in the party, with up to 40,000 activtsist trying to pull the contest to the extreme right.
And where did this evidence come from.?
Look it up, lazy fucker.
The revival of Conservative Party membership, from a historic low of 120,000."
I think he meant evidence that there are 40,000 extreme right activists infiltrating the conservatives. An increase of 40,000 just means membership went up. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"OK, let me ask the question a different way.
What legal safeguards are in place to prevent voter fraud in the election of the UK's next Prime Minister?
There is evidence of recent entryist behaviour in the party, with up to 40,000 activtsist trying to pull the contest to the extreme right.
And where did this evidence come from.?
Look it up, lazy fucker.
The revival of Conservative Party membership, from a historic low of 120,000."
As you have to be a member for three months before you can vote , it is difficult to see how it could have any impact on the current contest .
The Conservative party have had a very successful recruitment campaign over the last year . The thought of a Labour government should itself be enough to encourage people to join |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"OK, let me ask the question a different way.
What legal safeguards are in place to prevent voter fraud in the election of the UK's next Prime Minister?
There is evidence of recent entryist behaviour in the party, with up to 40,000 activtsist trying to pull the contest to the extreme right.
And where did this evidence come from.?
Look it up, lazy fucker.
The revival of Conservative Party membership, from a historic low of 120,000.
As you have to be a member for three months before you can vote , it is difficult to see how it could have any impact on the current contest .
"
Well the bank rolled mass infiltration of far right members joining the Tory part started November 2018
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"OK, let me ask the question a different way.
What legal safeguards are in place to prevent voter fraud in the election of the UK's next Prime Minister?
There is evidence of recent entryist behaviour in the party, with up to 40,000 activtsist trying to pull the contest to the extreme right.
And where did this evidence come from.?
Look it up, lazy fucker.
The revival of Conservative Party membership, from a historic low of 120,000.
As you have to be a member for three months before you can vote , it is difficult to see how it could have any impact on the current contest .
Well the bank rolled mass infiltration of far right members joining the Tory part started November 2018
"
As you are not asked to make a declaration of your beliefs when you join it is difficult to see how anyone could assess the type of Conservative that joined . Maybe time for a reality test . |
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"OK, let me ask the question a different way.
What legal safeguards are in place to prevent voter fraud in the election of the UK's next Prime Minister?
There is evidence of recent entryist behaviour in the party, with up to 40,000 activtsist trying to pull the contest to the extreme right.
And where did this evidence come from.?
Look it up, lazy fucker.
The revival of Conservative Party membership, from a historic low of 120,000. As you have to be a member for three months before you can vote , it is difficult to see how it could have any impact on the current contest .
The Conservative party have had a very successful recruitment campaign over the last year . The thought of a Labour government should itself be enough to encourage people to join "
For some it could be but for many others the thought of a party gone mad on implementing one single policy that even more experts agree will cause more harm to the economy than anything Jeremy's Labour Party could possibly do, has driven them away from even considering voting Conservative, and they're not going to be coming back any time soon if ever.
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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
The Conservative party have had a very successful recruitment campaign over the last year . The thought of a Labour government should itself be enough to encourage people to join "
The Conservative Party is in meltdown.
Its membership crumbled, down to 120,000, and its vote-share has crumbled, too.
Mass defection to UKIP and then Brexit Party.
It's been odds-on for almost a year there would an election for a new leader sometime soon.
Social media was full of stuff urging Brextremists to sign up so they could manipulate the outcome in favour of one of their own.
The Conservative and Brexit Party.
I saw an interesting piece yesterday about the same thing happening to Labour.
Except the exodus has been the opposite.
For every Labour voter who's gone to the Brexit Party, four have switched to the Lib Dems and Greens.
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"OK, let me ask the question a different way.
What legal safeguards are in place to prevent voter fraud in the election of the UK's next Prime Minister?
There is evidence of recent entryist behaviour in the party, with up to 40,000 activtsist trying to pull the contest to the extreme right.
And where did this evidence come from.?
Look it up, lazy fucker.
The revival of Conservative Party membership, from a historic low of 120,000. As you have to be a member for three months before you can vote , it is difficult to see how it could have any impact on the current contest .
The Conservative party have had a very successful recruitment campaign over the last year . The thought of a Labour government should itself be enough to encourage people to join
For some it could be but for many others the thought of a party gone mad on implementing one single policy that even more experts agree will cause more harm to the economy than anything Jeremy's Labour Party could possibly do, has driven them away from even considering voting Conservative, and they're not going to be coming back any time soon if ever.
"
As some on here love a poll you do know that on the latest you gov poll labour are in 4th place polling 18%.Thats what they think of corbyn. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
The Conservative party have had a very successful recruitment campaign over the last year . The thought of a Labour government should itself be enough to encourage people to join
The Conservative Party is in meltdown.
Its membership crumbled, down to 120,000, and its vote-share has crumbled, too.
Mass defection to UKIP and then Brexit Party.
It's been odds-on for almost a year there would an election for a new leader sometime soon.
Social media was full of stuff urging Brextremists to sign up so they could manipulate the outcome in favour of one of their own.
The Conservative and Brexit Party.
I saw an interesting piece yesterday about the same thing happening to Labour.
Except the exodus has been the opposite.
For every Labour voter who's gone to the Brexit Party, four have switched to the Lib Dems and Greens.
"
As the contest is between two candidates I am sure that they would complain if they believed that there was any impact of what you say impacting on the result.
It is good news fit the Conservative Party. An extra £1 million per annum in membership fees . As another poster has already stated they are in 4 th place in the opinion polls.
It seems that the Conservative Party are as popular as ever. If not , why are Labour in 4 th place in the polls .
No rational person is going to consider voting Labour with the chance of John Mc Dowell being Chancellor.
With Boris in power another win should be on the cards in the next election.
It is not the size of the dog in the fit that matters , it is the size of the fight in the dog. |
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"As far as the public are concerned they had their choice of party in 2017. At general elections you vote for the party , not the leader . Democracy in action. ."
The majority of the public did not vote Conservative in 2017. May then spent £1bn of taxpayers money to secure power - against the assent of the majority of voters.
Don't kid yourself that you live in a democracy. You don't. The fact that the UK is about to have another PM appointed - not elected by the general electorate - is more reminiscent of the old CPSU, or the current Chinese CP, than it is of a democracy.
There should be a GE immediately after the new PM takes his post. That way, nobody will be able to deny his party's mandate to govern.
IF they gain the mandate.
THAT'S democracy. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"As far as the public are concerned they had their choice of party in 2017. At general elections you vote for the party , not the leader . Democracy in action. .
The majority of the public did not vote Conservative in 2017. May then spent £1bn of taxpayers money to secure power - against the assent of the majority of voters.
Don't kid yourself that you live in a democracy. You don't. The fact that the UK is about to have another PM appointed - not elected by the general electorate - is more reminiscent of the old CPSU, or the current Chinese CP, than it is of a democracy.
There should be a GE immediately after the new PM takes his post. That way, nobody will be able to deny his party's mandate to govern.
IF they gain the mandate.
THAT'S democracy."
Who do you think benefited from that £1 million? the people of n ireland i would think they are quiet happy their mps are doing what they are paid for.If you think this is abnormal in politics you must be very naive its been going on for centuries. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As far as the public are concerned they had their choice of party in 2017. At general elections you vote for the party , not the leader . Democracy in action. .
The majority of the public did not vote Conservative in 2017. May then spent £1bn of taxpayers money to secure power - against the assent of the majority of voters.
Don't kid yourself that you live in a democracy. You don't. The fact that the UK is about to have another PM appointed - not elected by the general electorate - is more reminiscent of the old CPSU, or the current Chinese CP, than it is of a democracy.
There should be a GE immediately after the new PM takes his post. That way, nobody will be able to deny his party's mandate to govern.
IF they gain the mandate.
THAT'S democracy.Who do you think benefited from that £1 million? the people of n ireland i would think they are quiet happy their mps are doing what they are paid for.If you think this is abnormal in politics you must be very naive its been going on for centuries. "
Even Sinn Fein welcomed the money. It made every citizen of Northern Ireland a winner on this occasion..  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"OK, let me ask the question a different way.
What legal safeguards are in place to prevent voter fraud in the election of the UK's next Prime Minister?
There is evidence of recent entryist behaviour in the party, with up to 40,000 activtsist trying to pull the contest to the extreme right.
And where did this evidence come from.?
Look it up, lazy fucker.
The revival of Conservative Party membership, from a historic low of 120,000.
As you have to be a member for three months before you can vote , it is difficult to see how it could have any impact on the current contest .
Well the bank rolled mass infiltration of far right members joining the Tory part started November 2018
As you are not asked to make a declaration of your beliefs when you join it is difficult to see how anyone could assess the type of Conservative that joined . Maybe time for a reality test ."
As it has been admitted by Arron Banks and his far right chum the bank rolling of far right mass infiltration of the Tory party started last year.
Try & keep up  |
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"Who do you think benefited from that £1 million? the people of n ireland i would think they are quiet happy their mps are doing what they are paid for.If you think this is abnormal in politics you must be very naive its been going on for centuries. "
1. It was £1 billion - and the main beneficiaries were the Conservative party.
2. Since January 2017, the NI Assembly has been suspended and the country is being run by the civil service. The MPs have had their wages reduced because they are not doing their jobs. Maybe the voters of NI are quite happy with that, as you suggest. They may be as easy to please as you clearly are.
3. Just because this has been seen by many - including you - as business as usual does not mean it's democracy.
Plenty of people accept it. Plenty think we can do better. You're the former. I'm the latter. |
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"Even Sinn Fein welcomed the money. It made every citizen of Northern Ireland a winner on this occasion.. "
Why wouldn't they? Doubtless, they thought it would be spent to benefit the people of NI - mostly on health and education; but it hasn't been.
Why not? Because since January 2017, the DUP and Sinn Fein haven't been able to form a government - and the Conservatives can't force the issue with the DUP because - without them - they wouldn't be in power.
Like I said. You really don't live in a democracy if more than 50% of the electorate don't want a party in power but they can bribe their way into it anyway. |
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