FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > is it right that 160,000 Conservative members will choose our next pm ?
is it right that 160,000 Conservative members will choose our next pm ?
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"discuss"
Nothing to discuss.
The Conservatives are choosing their leader. That is how it works in this country.
If they (the Conservatives) thought it absurd that Gordon Brown became an “unelected” PM after Blair, they have had time to change the law to make it that any Party in power changing leader should also have to call an election
The law has not been changed by the Conservatives and so it will be down to the next Labour/coalition or indeed any Govt to push through the required legislation - if that is what they want. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"No, it isn't. But it's going to happen anyway. You don't live in a democracy. This is the proof."
We already had the proof our democracy was broken when the result of the EU referendum was not respected by remoaners in Parliament, and we failed to leave on March 29th. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"No, it isn't. But it's going to happen anyway. You don't live in a democracy. This is the proof.
We already had the proof our democracy was broken when the result of the EU referendum was not respected by the Erg and Dup in Parliament, and we failed to leave on March 29th. "
Ftfy..  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"No, it isn't. But it's going to happen anyway. You don't live in a democracy. This is the proof.
We already had the proof our democracy was broken when the result of the EU referendum was not respected by the Erg and Dup in Parliament, and we failed to leave on March 29th.
Ftfy.. "
Funny as it wasn't the DUP and the ERG who forced a vote to compel the Prime minister to ask for an extension to article 50, that was done by REMOANERS in Parliament. We should have left on March 29th and that was the default legal position. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"No, it isn't. But it's going to happen anyway. You don't live in a democracy. This is the proof.
We already had the proof our democracy was broken when the result of the EU referendum was not respected by the Erg and Dup in Parliament, and we failed to leave on March 29th.
Ftfy..
Funny as it wasn't the DUP and the ERG who forced a vote to compel the Prime minister to ask for an extension to article 50, that was done by REMOANERS in Parliament. We should have left on March 29th and that was the default legal position. "
We both know that's only one occasion and that the swivel eyed loons in the Erg and Dup have stabbed their PM in the back and set about destroying her deal in the vain hope of no deal.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Yes they are. They dance about naked and also find lots of those horrible poor people to suck their blood.,
I think the four horseman of the apocalypse sre voting too  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"No, it isn't. But it's going to happen anyway. You don't live in a democracy. This is the proof."
You don't vote for a Prime Minister, you vote for a MP for your constituency and.... you know the rest....  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
its not a great way of doing it but surley better than the way brown became p.m if i remember rightly blair just handed him the job the labour party didnt get a vote it was decided between two people |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
Rules are rules. The Conservative Party has its way of doing things and this is what's happening.
It's all legal and you have to accept it, in the same way that I accept that I have no say in choosing the leaders of other political parties. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"its not a great way of doing it but surley better than the way brown became p.m if i remember rightly blair just handed him the job the labour party didnt get a vote it was decided between two people"
Not exactly. Nominations opened for a leadership contest. Only one nomination was received.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"If your worried about a political party choosing their leader. How many people vote for the presidents of the EU? I believe one is being chosen now. "
The EU is a bureaucracy. It's not a government.
We don't vote for the heads of the civil service.
Regardless, the EU Commissioners are chosen by our delegated representatives. The heads of governments then confirmed or rejected by the directly elected European Parliament which Brexit supporters were so excited about getting elected to because it's so... powerless? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *os19Man
over a year ago
Edmonton |
I am not the most clued up on politics so I am expecting a bit of a telling off from the more clued up Fab members.Until 1998 the Conservative leader was chosen by the MP’s I feel this a a better system as the MP’s are the ones that will have to work with a new leader.When the rules were amended to allow party members to vote on the new leader when it was the final 2 in the 2001 leadership contest it choose Ian Duncan Smith to be leader ahead of Kenneth Clarke who I think would have been a better leader. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I am not the most clued up on politics so I am expecting a bit of a telling off from the more clued up Fab members.Until 1998 the Conservative leader was chosen by the MP’s I feel this a a better system as the MP’s are the ones that will have to work with a new leader.When the rules were amended to allow party members to vote on the new leader when it was the final 2 in the 2001 leadership contest it choose Ian Duncan Smith to be leader ahead of Kenneth Clarke who I think would have been a better leader."
Well that's the thing. By definition, party members will hold stronger views than the wider population.
MPs are often more pragmatic on policy than the membership because they have to get re-elected.
So, the membership votes for more extreme leaders with less appeal to the electorate, making the party less electable.
As people don't like to admit a mistake they become more extreme. More moderate members leave and the party ends up in a death-spiral.
Unintended consequences are easier to see in retrospect though. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
This is what happens when you reject the prime minister’s deal, in the hope that you will get a general election.
Now Comrade Corbyn has no general election, he doesn’t want a second referendum, and the Tories will finish BREXIT with Boris in charge.
That’ll show em eh? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I am not the most clued up on politics so I am expecting a bit of a telling off from the more clued up Fab members.Until 1998 the Conservative leader was chosen by the MP’s I feel this a a better system as the MP’s are the ones that will have to work with a new leader.When the rules were amended to allow party members to vote on the new leader when it was the final 2 in the 2001 leadership contest it choose Ian Duncan Smith to be leader ahead of Kenneth Clarke who I think would have been a better leader.
Well that's the thing. By definition, party members will hold stronger views than the wider population.
MPs are often more pragmatic on policy than the membership because they have to get re-elected.
So, the membership votes for more extreme leaders with less appeal to the electorate, making the party less electable.
As people don't like to admit a mistake they become more extreme. More moderate members leave and the party ends up in a death-spiral.
Unintended consequences are easier to see in retrospect though."
Pretty much exactly the same problem with the Labour Party that lead to Jeremy Corbyn being their leader. I think a better system, especially when a party is in Government, would be to go back to the party's MPs electing their leader, although that doesn't always work so well [Michael Foot] or go for open primaries as happens in some US States. However, if a party has a bad policy, it really matters little how the leader is either selected or elected unless they're standing on a platform of changing that policy.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *uxinteriorMan
over a year ago
south west , continental |
"The elected representatives of 500 million + people vote for the head of the EU institutions.
How many elected representatives vote for the head of state here?
"
A nominated candidate of 28 leaders of the european council is elected by the European Parliament of which there are 751 MEPs.
J C Junker was elected by a majority of 422 votes from 729 cast.
In comparison around 160,000 members of a political party in this case the conservatives are eligible to vote for a leader of their political party. It just happens that that political party are currently the goverment.
It's not out of the realms of possibility that the new leader and PM may call a general election.
Everyone who is eligible to vote can vote for their particular candidate and political party. You get your chance to vote in a new party, and the leader of that party becomes PM.
We never get the chance to elect a European president that honour is done by a parliament that is made up of all Political parties and groups. Be it from the right, centre or left.
If you ask most people they have never even heard of a candidate and they sure as hell will never vote for him.
Those 28 european council leaders are the ones that select the person and not one of the little people or Joe public has a say. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Those 28 european council leaders are the ones that select the person and not one of the little people or Joe public has a say. "
The 741 publicly voted in MEP's vote on the candidate put forward by the publicly elected heads of state that like MEP's are elected to serve on your behalf by you. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
The 741 publicly voted in MEP's vote on the candidate put forward by the publicly elected heads of state that like MEP's are elected to serve on your behalf by you. "
But, but, but . . . it's a dictatorship
(fingers in the ears)
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago
Huddersfield /derby cinemas |
"This is what happens when you reject the prime minister’s deal, in the hope that you will get a general election.
Now Comrade Corbyn has no general election, he doesn’t want a second referendum, and the Tories will finish BREXIT with Boris in charge.
That’ll show em eh?"
. The arithmetic is that the tories won enough seats at the 2017 General Election after they found cash from the magic money tree to send to the DUP ,, so it completely irrelevant how Labour , SNP , LibDems voted on the Prime Ministers deal , , the people who stopped that deal being implemented were the Conservatives who voted against it , I believe Johnson voted against it AND for it , so I wonder what way the wind will blow if he does become PM ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"No, it isn't. But it's going to happen anyway. You don't live in a democracy. This is the proof."
The country is run by the tory party,any party in power may for some reason change its leader,we do not have a vote for who is PM.
We do live in a democracy but you do not understand what democracy is |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
Previously when this sort of thing has happened, the party in power has had a majority.
In this case it is not at all clear that the new leader of the party could actually command a majority in Parliament even with the DUP as there are several Conservative MPs who's support he does not command at all.
It is not therefore clear that the new party leader would become Prime Minister. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Previously when this sort of thing has happened, the party in power has had a majority.
In this case it is not at all clear that the new leader of the party could actually command a majority in Parliament even with the DUP as there are several Conservative MPs who's support he does not command at all.
It is not therefore clear that the new party leader would become Prime Minister."
Was just reading an article about this. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Previously when this sort of thing has happened, the party in power has had a majority.
In this case it is not at all clear that the new leader of the party could actually command a majority in Parliament even with the DUP as there are several Conservative MPs who's support he does not command at all.
It is not therefore clear that the new party leader would become Prime Minister.
Was just reading an article about this. "
Honestly, I think it very unlikely that that would happen. The Conservative Remaim MPs won't want to block Johnson before he's started. They will hope that the realities of office will bring him to his senses. It probably won't be until the autumn before they try to move against him in a serious way if he hasn't. Of course that will be cutting it pretty close to the wire.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Previously when this sort of thing has happened, the party in power has had a majority.
In this case it is not at all clear that the new leader of the party could actually command a majority in Parliament even with the DUP as there are several Conservative MPs who's support he does not command at all.
It is not therefore clear that the new party leader would become Prime Minister.
Was just reading an article about this.
Honestly, I think it very unlikely that that would happen. The Conservative Remaim MPs won't want to block Johnson before he's started. They will hope that the realities of office will bring him to his senses. It probably won't be until the autumn before they try to move against him in a serious way if he hasn't. Of course that will be cutting it pretty close to the wire.
"
Will be interesting to see if he can aoull together a working government given he only wants those who will back an October no deal. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Previously when this sort of thing has happened, the party in power has had a majority.
In this case it is not at all clear that the new leader of the party could actually command a majority in Parliament even with the DUP as there are several Conservative MPs who's support he does not command at all.
It is not therefore clear that the new party leader would become Prime Minister.
Was just reading an article about this.
Honestly, I think it very unlikely that that would happen. The Conservative Remaim MPs won't want to block Johnson before he's started. They will hope that the realities of office will bring him to his senses. It probably won't be until the autumn before they try to move against him in a serious way if he hasn't. Of course that will be cutting it pretty close to the wire.
Will be interesting to see if he can aoull together a working government given he only wants those who will back an October no deal. "
There will be a lot of grubby characters returning to Cabinet. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Previously when this sort of thing has happened, the party in power has had a majority.
In this case it is not at all clear that the new leader of the party could actually command a majority in Parliament even with the DUP as there are several Conservative MPs who's support he does not command at all.
It is not therefore clear that the new party leader would become Prime Minister.
Was just reading an article about this.
Honestly, I think it very unlikely that that would happen. The Conservative Remaim MPs won't want to block Johnson before he's started. They will hope that the realities of office will bring him to his senses. It probably won't be until the autumn before they try to move against him in a serious way if he hasn't. Of course that will be cutting it pretty close to the wire.
Will be interesting to see if he can aoull together a working government given he only wants those who will back an October no deal.
There will be a lot of grubby characters returning to Cabinet."
Of course there grubby they are polititions lol |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"The elected representatives of 500 million + people vote for the head of the EU institutions.
How many elected representatives vote for the head of state here?
A nominated candidate of 28 leaders of the european council is elected by the European Parliament of which there are 751 MEPs.
J C Junker was elected by a majority of 422 votes from 729 cast.
In comparison around 160,000 members of a political party in this case the conservatives are eligible to vote for a leader of their political party. It just happens that that political party are currently the goverment.
It's not out of the realms of possibility that the new leader and PM may call a general election.
Everyone who is eligible to vote can vote for their particular candidate and political party. You get your chance to vote in a new party, and the leader of that party becomes PM.
We never get the chance to elect a European president that honour is done by a parliament that is made up of all Political parties and groups. Be it from the right, centre or left.
If you ask most people they have never even heard of a candidate and they sure as hell will never vote for him.
Those 28 european council leaders are the ones that select the person and not one of the little people or Joe public has a say. "
Seems they cant even agree on that, talks now suspended until Tuesday because tusk is not getting his way on junkers replacement.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The elected representatives of 500 million + people vote for the head of the EU institutions.
How many elected representatives vote for the head of state here?
A nominated candidate of 28 leaders of the european council is elected by the European Parliament of which there are 751 MEPs.
J C Junker was elected by a majority of 422 votes from 729 cast.
In comparison around 160,000 members of a political party in this case the conservatives are eligible to vote for a leader of their political party. It just happens that that political party are currently the goverment.
It's not out of the realms of possibility that the new leader and PM may call a general election.
Everyone who is eligible to vote can vote for their particular candidate and political party. You get your chance to vote in a new party, and the leader of that party becomes PM.
We never get the chance to elect a European president that honour is done by a parliament that is made up of all Political parties and groups. Be it from the right, centre or left.
If you ask most people they have never even heard of a candidate and they sure as hell will never vote for him.
Those 28 european council leaders are the ones that select the person and not one of the little people or Joe public has a say. Seems they cant even agree on that, talks now suspended until Tuesday because tusk is not getting his way on junkers replacement. "
So it's only Tusk holding up proceedings on Junkers replacement...
Are you reading "specialist publications" because that's not what I'm reading in the media |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
“ EU leaders meeting in Brussels remain divided over who should get the EU's top jobs, including a successor to Commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker.
Talks resumed over breakfast on Monday morning, after the member countries failed to reach agreement at the emergency summit convened on Sunday.
Summit chair Donald Tusk decided to have a break for bilateral talks.
Mr Tusk and some leaders are said to be proposing Dutch centre-left politician Frans Timmermans for the top job.
But the appointment faces stiff opposition from eastern European states and centre-right leaders from the EU's biggest political group.” |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ertwoCouple
over a year ago
omagh |
"No, it isn't. But it's going to happen anyway. You don't live in a democracy. This is the proof.
We already had the proof our democracy was broken when the result of the EU referendum was not respected by the Erg and Dup in Parliament, and we failed to leave on March 29th.
Ftfy..
Funny as it wasn't the DUP and the ERG who forced a vote to compel the Prime minister to ask for an extension to article 50, that was done by REMOANERS in Parliament. We should have left on March 29th and that was the default legal position. "
But the DUP should have stopped backing May when she proved she was lieing to the people of the UK by not leaving on the 29th March. Mrs May in a wee bubble land of her own and clearly had no intension of obaying the leave vote. And those who voted leave did not vote to send May or any other twat to the EU like beggers. WTO terms are fair to uk/eu trade in both directions. But I for one will now buy anything I can from out side the EU area and look after our world trade partners. Partners which since 2009 have been our biggest trade area not the EU. Trade which has been caried out under WTO terms that is proof the EU will still trade with the UK under those same terms. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"No, it isn't. But it's going to happen anyway. You don't live in a democracy. This is the proof.
We already had the proof our democracy was broken when the result of the EU referendum was not respected by the Erg and Dup in Parliament, and we failed to leave on March 29th.
Ftfy..
Funny as it wasn't the DUP and the ERG who forced a vote to compel the Prime minister to ask for an extension to article 50, that was done by REMOANERS in Parliament. We should have left on March 29th and that was the default legal position.
But the DUP should have stopped backing May when she proved she was lieing to the people of the UK by not leaving on the 29th March. Mrs May in a wee bubble land of her own and clearly had no intension of obaying the leave vote. And those who voted leave did not vote to send May or any other twat to the EU like beggers. WTO terms are fair to uk/eu trade in both directions. But I for one will now buy anything I can from out side the EU area and look after our world trade partners. Partners which since 2009 have been our biggest trade area not the EU. Trade which has been caried out under WTO terms that is proof the EU will still trade with the UK under those same terms."
You've written this before on another thread.
What do you think WTO terms are? You do know that they are the worst terms of trade that exist on the planet unless you are under sanctions don't you? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
And what did Boris say..?
More gross hypocrisy and double standards.. 