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EU - Mercosaur free trade deal
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Just had this pop up as breaking news on my business feed. Source RTE.
"Trade negotiators for the European Union and the South American Mercosur trading block have reached agreement on a new free-trade deal.
It paves the way for a significant increase import of cheaper beef and other goods from South America.
The Mercosur trade deal has been almost 20 years in the making and involves Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay.
The region has 260 million consumers, making it the fifth largest market outside of the EU.
It is the largest free trade agreement negotiated by the EU to date and follows on from the completion of recent European trade agreements with Canada, Japan, Mexico, and Vietnam."
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Nah. We don't need it. We can do far better on our own 
I mean, we'll be in a much stronger negotiating position with a smaller market and our proven negotiating prowess.
Oh well."
All that experience of free trade negotiations we have built over the last 50 years.
Oh, wait a minute . . . |
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Yup twenty years of negotiations to land a huge opportunity, and we're fucking it off before the first shipping container vould be moved. Still, if we start again on our own, on 1st November, we might be able to get a better deal by 2050... Shame that everywhere else in the world will have had 30 years of better trade to get ahead of us. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
This trade deal could still be rejected by the European Parliament or member states.
That's a demonstration of both democracy and national sovereignty.
Although the EU apparently does not allow either.. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
guess what... it also has the same wording as in the Japan-EU trade agreement and CETA (canada-EU trade agreement, that if a EU member were to leave they could not be offered a trade agreement on the same or better terms....
so.... go uk!!!! yey!!! |
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The deal is not done yet.
The EU just signed a huge deal with canada, and Japan.
Each country can still veto the deal. Canada was forced to give free travel to the whole of the EU, they didnt want to give it to some countries. Those countries vetoed and got what they wanted.
Japan deal was clear cut, made perfect sense to allow japan to move their car plants to japan out of the UK and vice versa, only country it really hurts is the UK and they didnt have a veto anymore so passed easily.
This new trade agreement may see cheap beef enter the EU, however I believe it will have little to no impact, cause the beef is generally seen as lower grade than EU beef and I believe most people who buy beef in the EU do indeed take qauality into account, they know about grass fed beef vs grain fed etc.
So I can see poorer families now having access to beef but the people who already bought EU beef will continue to buy EU beef, also I think it opens up the middle/upper class markets in south america to high grade grass fed beef from the EU too. Specially when Japan wants EU beef too due to quality.
This is the kind of trade deal that the UK would have vetoed anyway, as America would have told them to.
But from the EU point of view, its a big deal. I think its such an opportunity for both parties. I cant see anything but both sides making out really well from the deal, and it increases both of their standing on the world stage.
Imagine the UK having to deal with argentina now a Mercosur member with free trade with the EU. Forget 20 years, would be lucky to ever reach agreement. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Beef is the biggest cause of deforestation so it's quite likely a larger market to sell their beef to will put more pressure on the rainforests of South America.
I guess it's inevitable.
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"Beef is the biggest cause of deforestation so it's quite likely a larger market to sell their beef to will put more pressure on the rainforests of South America.
I guess it's inevitable.
"
Not to mention the pressure on European beef farmers as cheaper imports start to flow in to the bloc. But for every negative there will be a positive ... |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"Beef is the biggest cause of deforestation so it's quite likely a larger market to sell their beef to will put more pressure on the rainforests of South America.
I guess it's inevitable.
Not to mention the pressure on European beef farmers as cheaper imports start to flow in to the bloc. But for every negative there will be a positive ... "
Beef farming is barely profitable in the UK anyway - subsidies often prop up a loss making enterprise.
Make of that what you will. |
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"Beef is the biggest cause of deforestation so it's quite likely a larger market to sell their beef to will put more pressure on the rainforests of South America.
I guess it's inevitable.
Not to mention the pressure on European beef farmers as cheaper imports start to flow in to the bloc. But for every negative there will be a positive ...
Beef farming is barely profitable in the UK anyway - subsidies often prop up a loss making enterprise.
Make of that what you will."
That will be up to the E.U. farmers to deal with.
Meanwhile here in uk:
“British beef could be served on Chinese dinner plates by the end of the year, following an agreement reached today between China and the UK.
The move could be worth an estimated £230 million for British producers in the first five years alone, and comes more than 20 years after the Chinese government imposed a ban on UK imports of beef in 1996.
The UK-China Beef Protocol was signed today by Farming Minister Robert Goodwill and the Chinese Ambassador to the UK Liu Xiaoming as part of the tenth Economic and Financial Dialogue (EFD) between the UK and China, securing market access for UK beef exporters by the end of 2019.
International Trade Secretary Dr Liam Fox said:
Today’s step is welcome progress for our world-leading British beef producers, who will soon be able to export their products to one of the world’s largest economies, supporting local jobs and bringing millions of pounds to the UK economy each year.
This comes as a result of years of hard work across Government, including at the Department for International Trade, and marks the next step in realising our global trading ambitions with unbeatable British food.
As we leave the European Union, we will continue to break down market access barriers to make it easier for UK businesses to trade across the world.
Farming Minister Robert Goodwill said:
This is a major coup for our world-class food and farming industry, and a landmark move which could be worth £230 million for British business in the next five years alone.
Today’s milestone reflects our ambition to maximise new trading opportunities across the world and become a truly Global Britain as we leave the EU.
The announcement comes after China recently approved five British pork plants to export products to China, which will build on a market which is already worth £70 million per year. We look forward to further approval of qualified UK pork plants by the end of the 2019.”
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Tis good news.
Not sure I get the brexit reference. We were exporting as part of the eu until bse happened. Looks like others in the eu have made this happen quicker. And sounds like we may have started talks before the referendum. |
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"Tis good news.
Not sure I get the brexit reference. We were exporting as part of the eu until bse happened. Looks like others in the eu have made this happen quicker. And sounds like we may have started talks before the referendum."
Agree It’s not specific to a brexit reference, but does highlight that brand Britain is there and open for business.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Just had this pop up as breaking news on my business feed. Source RTE.
"Trade negotiators for the European Union and the South American Mercosur trading block have reached agreement on a new free-trade deal.
It paves the way for a significant increase import of cheaper beef and other goods from South America.
The Mercosur trade deal has been almost 20 years in the making and involves Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay.
The region has 260 million consumers, making it the fifth largest market outside of the EU.
It is the largest free trade agreement negotiated by the EU to date and follows on from the completion of recent European trade agreements with Canada, Japan, Mexico, and Vietnam."
"
Not too green a deal though. Shipping it half way across the planet will be a huge carbon footprint |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Tis good news.
Not sure I get the brexit reference. We were exporting as part of the eu until bse happened. Looks like others in the eu have made this happen quicker. And sounds like we may have started talks before the referendum.
Agree It’s not specific to a brexit reference, but does highlight that brand Britain is there and open for business.
"
I meant in the government statement rather than implying you were giving it that spin. "now we've left eu" etc. You could have done this before. |
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"Beef is the biggest cause of deforestation so it's quite likely a larger market to sell their beef to will put more pressure on the rainforests of South America.
I guess it's inevitable.
Not to mention the pressure on European beef farmers as cheaper imports start to flow in to the bloc. But for every negative there will be a positive ...
Beef farming is barely profitable in the UK anyway - subsidies often prop up a loss making enterprise.
Make of that what you will.
That will be up to the E.U. farmers to deal with.
Meanwhile here in uk:
“British beef could be served on Chinese dinner plates by the end of the year, following an agreement reached today between China and the UK.
The move could be worth an estimated £230 million for British producers in the first five years alone, and comes more than 20 years after the Chinese government imposed a ban on UK imports of beef in 1996.
The UK-China Beef Protocol was signed today by Farming Minister Robert Goodwill and the Chinese Ambassador to the UK Liu Xiaoming as part of the tenth Economic and Financial Dialogue (EFD) between the UK and China, securing market access for UK beef exporters by the end of 2019.
International Trade Secretary Dr Liam Fox said:
Today’s step is welcome progress for our world-leading British beef producers, who will soon be able to export their products to one of the world’s largest economies, supporting local jobs and bringing millions of pounds to the UK economy each year.
This comes as a result of years of hard work across Government, including at the Department for International Trade, and marks the next step in realising our global trading ambitions with unbeatable British food.
As we leave the European Union, we will continue to break down market access barriers to make it easier for UK businesses to trade across the world.
Farming Minister Robert Goodwill said:
This is a major coup for our world-class food and farming industry, and a landmark move which could be worth £230 million for British business in the next five years alone.
Today’s milestone reflects our ambition to maximise new trading opportunities across the world and become a truly Global Britain as we leave the EU.
The announcement comes after China recently approved five British pork plants to export products to China, which will build on a market which is already worth £70 million per year. We look forward to further approval of qualified UK pork plants by the end of the 2019.”
"
Hmm. So £230 million over 5 years. Hmmm. Very good! Hmmmmm. So this has taken years of negotiation. To get £230 million over 5 years.
Hmmmmmm.
It's a pity that declaring A50 has cost the UK something like £600 million a WEEK in lost growth.
So we need approximately 500 trade deals like this, at say 5 years negotiation each, just to get back what we already had. That's about two and a half thousand years of negotiations.
Every person that claims brexit makes economic sense is UTTERLY FUCKING CRAZY AND SHOULD BE COMMITTED SO THAT THEY CANNOT CAUSE ANY MORE HARM TO THEMSELVES AND TO OTHERS. |
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“THE IRISH FARMERS’ Association has said that a draft trade agreement between the EU and a number of South American countries is a “sellout” of Irish farmers and a “bad deal” for Ireland and the environment. “
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"Tis good news.
Not sure I get the brexit reference. We were exporting as part of the eu until bse happened. Looks like others in the eu have made this happen quicker. And sounds like we may have started talks before the referendum.
Agree It’s not specific to a brexit reference, but does highlight that brand Britain is there and open for business.
I meant in the government statement rather than implying you were giving it that spin. "now we've left eu" etc. You could have done this before. "
Only natural for them to get a mention of Brexit in there 
But I guess it is what it is .  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm no expert on this and wont do what others do (google, quoute 'facts' or statistics and pretend I am an expeet) but surely there are many draw backs. Couple of obvious ones as follows;
Environmentally, hauling tonnes of beef around the globe as opossed to home produced or nearest neighbour.
Quality, no one will convince me otherwise- it will not be as fresh and they will just ship over the crap they can't sell internally. Don't give me bollocks about maturing enroute either.
Home economy, I always try and buy British. The more who do the same the better and prices will lower.
I appreciate the argument about cheaper meat but there are plenty of affordable meats already out there. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The major issue with South America beef is that its responsible for most of the recent deforestation.Especually in the amazon.
My beef eating friends tell me Argentina produces some the best beef in the world.
If that's what's exported the quality will be very good.
There's always a environmental price to pay though . |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I'm no expert on this and wont do what others do (google, quoute 'facts' or statistics and pretend I am an expeet) but surely there are many draw backs. Couple of obvious ones as follows;
Environmentally, hauling tonnes of beef around the globe as opossed to home produced or nearest neighbour.
Quality, no one will convince me otherwise- it will not be as fresh and they will just ship over the crap they can't sell internally. Don't give me bollocks about maturing enroute either.
Home economy, I always try and buy British. The more who do the same the better and prices will lower.
I appreciate the argument about cheaper meat but there are plenty of affordable meats already out there."
Have to agree with you there i always try to buy local produce its fresher and has a lower carbon footprint.Saying that Argentinian beef is tasty .  |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Just had this pop up as breaking news on my business feed. Source RTE.
"Trade negotiators for the European Union and the South American Mercosur trading block have reached agreement on a new free-trade deal.
It paves the way for a significant increase import of cheaper beef and other goods from South America.
The Mercosur trade deal has been almost 20 years in the making and involves Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay.
The region has 260 million consumers, making it the fifth largest market outside of the EU.
It is the largest free trade agreement negotiated by the EU to date and follows on from the completion of recent European trade agreements with Canada, Japan, Mexico, and Vietnam."
"
It's taken them 20 years to negotiate and agree, and even then it has not yet been ratified.
From the RTE website;
Mercosur deal 'will decimate' Irish beef market - IFA
The Irish Farming Association's National Livestock Chairman Angus Woods said farmers were not overreacting to the deal, and that it will be devastating for Irish beef farmers.
Mr Woods said the consequences of the deal would be WORSE THAN A HARD BREXIT and that the beef coming through from South America would not be the same quality, and was sub-standard.
He said that Irish beef farmers were producing their beef by European standards and argued the deal would impact on every parish around Ireland.
Mr Woods said the EU Commission believes there is a massive win in this for other sectors, and that it is willing to let the beef industry "take a hit" to achieve it. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
So is the consensus that tease deals with countries a long way away or countries that make anything more cheaply than we do is bad?
Who do we trade with then and what do we trade with them?
Sounds like only the EU makes sense as standards are the same, prices are similar and they are very nearby |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"So is the consensus that tease deals with countries a long way away or countries that make anything more cheaply than we do is bad?
Who do we trade with then and what do we trade with them?
Sounds like only the EU makes sense as standards are the same, prices are similar and they are very nearby "
And yet, the EU is hailing it as the deal of the century....they believe beef farmers in Ireland are worth sacrificing for it....go figure. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Let's suppose this happens. And let's suppose we hard Brexit.
How are we stopping low quality s American beef flooding our markets via Ireland. What piece of tech stops this? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Let's suppose this happens. And let's suppose we hard Brexit.
How are we stopping low quality s American beef flooding our markets via Ireland. What piece of tech stops this?"
We all knew that brexit was going to deliver chlorine washed chickens and beef pumped with steroids from our bestie buddies over the pond . |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"So is the consensus that tease deals with countries a long way away or countries that make anything more cheaply than we do is bad?
Who do we trade with then and what do we trade with them?
Sounds like only the EU makes sense as standards are the same, prices are similar and they are very nearby
And yet, the EU is hailing it as the deal of the century....they believe beef farmers in Ireland are worth sacrificing for it....go figure."
Do you think that this is a good trade deal or not?
If not then are all trade deals no good because of the compromises necessary?
What do you actually want? |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
Just to throw this into the mix with the UK china deal (if it's true). I think he may be involved more in financial services but isn't Cameron some kind of China envoy? His previous role was in a UK instant payment company that was bought out by Visa but it'd be interesting to find out who is smoothing the way between nations. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So it’s ok getting beef from South America but not the US? Bollocks!"
I guess the argument is Argentina beef is lower quality, but not a health concern. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"So it’s ok getting beef from South America but not the US? Bollocks!
I guess the argument is Argentina beef is lower quality, but not a health concern. "
times have changed from the 60,s hopefully no more typhoid in the corn beef.  |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"So it’s ok getting beef from South America but not the US? Bollocks!"
Yes, it is.
Because the EU say it is.
And all the sheeple will agree with them....
Because the EU is the land of milk and honey....and beef (as long as it's South American). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So it’s ok getting beef from South America but not the US? Bollocks!
I guess the argument is Argentina beef is lower quality, but not a health concern.
Or the argument is buy more British?"
I meant the reason why the eu are happy with Argentina beef and not us chicken.
I think that is what was bei g referred to as bollocks. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So it’s ok getting beef from South America but not the US? Bollocks!
Yes, it is.
Because the EU say it is.
And all the sheeple will agree with them....
Because the EU is the land of milk and honey....and beef (as long as it's South American)."
Who's agreeing?
I'm as interested in the views of those who think it's a bad idea... Yet are okay with an open border.
We won't accept their rules. We don't want a customs union. But we will leave a porous border open. And claim gps will prevent it this from happening. |
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"So it’s ok getting beef from South America but not the US? Bollocks!
I guess the argument is Argentina beef is lower quality, but not a health concern.
Or the argument is buy more British?
I meant the reason why the eu are happy with Argentina beef and not us chicken.
I think that is what was bei g referred to as bollocks. "
Yes...
To be fair we would help ourselves enormously if we buy more british anyway
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So it’s ok getting beef from South America but not the US? Bollocks!
I guess the argument is Argentina beef is lower quality, but not a health concern.
Or the argument is buy more British?"
That would be bullocks! Lol |
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"So it’s ok getting beef from South America but not the US? Bollocks!
I guess the argument is Argentina beef is lower quality, but not a health concern.
Or the argument is buy more British?
That would be bullocks! Lol"
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