FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Can uk change its mind?.
Can uk change its mind?.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Yes it can, the ideal outcome of the brexit process is for the uk to change its mind, revoke article 50 and remain a member, the court of justice made things easier in this regard, when it ruled in december that the uk can revoke its notification and resume its eu membership on the same terms as before, whats your view?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes it can, the ideal outcome of the brexit process is for the uk to change its mind, revoke article 50 and remain a member, the court of justice made things easier in this regard, when it ruled in december that the uk can revoke its notification and resume its eu membership on the same terms as before, whats your view? "
I agree, but there obviously needs to be a second vote. I voted remain , but accepted that the majority voted leave, however I don’t accept that the majority voted to leave with no deal |
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"Yes, that's correct. But there needs to be a mandate to revoke Article 50. "
Ideally yes but legally no. However to get a new mandate there needs to be another vote. Either a general election with one of the major parties clearly backing Remain, or a referendum with the option to Remain. Currently the only mandate we have is to Leave the EU with a deal better than we have now. Neither leaving with 'no deal' nor revoking article 50 fulfill that mandate.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes it can, the ideal outcome of the brexit process is for the uk to change its mind, revoke article 50 and remain a member, the court of justice made things easier in this regard, when it ruled in december that the uk can revoke its notification and resume its eu membership on the same terms as before, whats your view?
I agree, but there obviously needs to be a second vote. I voted remain , but accepted that the majority voted leave, however I don’t accept that the majority voted to leave with no deal "
Yes, but the truth is that you have no idea what those who voted leave wanted.
I would suggest that many who voted leave did so because they wanted out of ALL of the EU 'institutions' - the Customs Union, Single market, ECJ etc
I get where you're coming from, but what you must also accept is that it is of course entirely possible that they did. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes it can, the ideal outcome of the brexit process is for the uk to change its mind, revoke article 50 and remain a member, the court of justice made things easier in this regard, when it ruled in december that the uk can revoke its notification and resume its eu membership on the same terms as before, whats your view?
I agree, but there obviously needs to be a second vote. I voted remain , but accepted that the majority voted leave, however I don’t accept that the majority voted to leave with no deal
Yes, but the truth is that you have no idea what those who voted leave wanted.
I would suggest that many who voted leave did so because they wanted out of ALL of the EU 'institutions' - the Customs Union, Single market, ECJ etc
I get where you're coming from, but what you must also accept is that it is of course entirely possible that they did."
You can only vote for what was promised  |
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"Yes it can, the ideal outcome of the brexit process is for the uk to change its mind, revoke article 50 and remain a member, the court of justice made things easier in this regard, when it ruled in december that the uk can revoke its notification and resume its eu membership on the same terms as before, whats your view?
I agree, but there obviously needs to be a second vote. I voted remain , but accepted that the majority voted leave, however I don’t accept that the majority voted to leave with no deal
Yes, but the truth is that you have no idea what those who voted leave wanted.
I would suggest that many who voted leave did so because they wanted out of ALL of the EU 'institutions' - the Customs Union, Single market, ECJ etc
I get where you're coming from, but what you must also accept is that it is of course entirely possible that they did.
You can only vote for what was promised "
I voted out. Like I voted not to join in the first place. Nothings happened over all these years, to make me want to change my mind. I don't need anyone to tell me which way I should be voting. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So no one told little lies from the remain camp then ...it was total truth ....but you still lost ...what does that tell you"
That all sides told lies and none of them actually knew what brexit meant for the UK because neither side researched it first.
All UKIP wanted was out at any and all costs and the tori prim minister was too weak to just tell them to go do one!!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So no one told little lies from the remain camp then ...it was total truth ....but you still lost ...what does that tell you"
Yes but maybe the lies told by leave were a little more likely to happen than the fantasy island promises that leavers threw their blind faith behind? That tells me all I needed to know about how easily duped some people are.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So no one told little lies from the remain camp then ...it was total truth ....but you still lost ...what does that tell you
Yes but maybe the lies told by leave were a little more likely to happen than the fantasy island promises that leavers threw their blind faith behind? That tells me all I needed to know about how easily duped some people are. "
Lies told by remain that is....doh! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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At this point it's be easier to hold a ref for what kind of brexit to go for, and knowing this dumb ass country "No Deal" would win as Farage would tell his followers to vote for that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Makes me laugh when leave voters say you lost get over it.
Id love to say to leave voters at british steel.honda.ford. all the numerous other places who are reducing workers due to brexit. You won stop moaning, this is what you voted for.
Cue leavers. Those places are nothing to do with brexit |
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This whole charade could of easily been avoided with the “back stop” etc by asking all nations involved by asking “would you like your nation .....” LEAVE/REMAIN.
Majority of each nations votes would of settled this once and for all. |
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"Yes it can, the ideal outcome of the brexit process is for the uk to change its mind, revoke article 50 and remain a member, the court of justice made things easier in this regard, when it ruled in december that the uk can revoke its notification and resume its eu membership on the same terms as before, whats your view? "
It would certainly help France pay its pension commitments. |
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Any move to revoke would need parliament to back it.
The Tories in the frame for the next PM are against.
The Green MP would support.
The Lib Dem leader would support.
The Scot Nationalist leader would support.
The DUP leader would only support if they could see this as the only way to maintain the Union.
The Labour leader will not personally give a firm steer.
Effectively, while most Tories would not revoke and the Labour leader cannot firmly state where he stands, it isn't going to happen. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Yes, that's correct. But there needs to be a mandate to revoke Article 50. "
Yes, that is right it needs to be that before they can revoke article 50.
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By *omaMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Yes it can, the ideal outcome of the brexit process is for the uk to change its mind, revoke article 50 and remain a member, the court of justice made things easier in this regard, when it ruled in december that the uk can revoke its notification and resume its eu membership on the same terms as before, whats your view?
I agree, but there obviously needs to be a second vote. I voted remain , but accepted that the majority voted leave, however I don’t accept that the majority voted to leave with no deal "
You are correct, the majority didn't vote to leave with no deal . . . They voted to leave the EU at the end of March . . . WITH or WITHOUT a deal, The deadline was set regardless.
The Brexit side would have preferred a 'Good Deal' in the negotiations but as that didn't materialise they are prepared to leave without a deal.
Exactly what the referendum demanded . . With or without |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Any move to revoke would need parliament to back it.
The Tories in the frame for the next PM are against.
The Green MP would support.
The Lib Dem leader would support.
The Scot Nationalist leader would support.
The DUP leader would only support if they could see this as the only way to maintain the Union.
The Labour leader will not personally give a firm steer.
Effectively, while most Tories would not revoke and the Labour leader cannot firmly state where he stands, it isn't going to happen."
Political suicide for labour if they did. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Yes it can, the ideal outcome of the brexit process is for the uk to change its mind, revoke article 50 and remain a member, the court of justice made things easier in this regard, when it ruled in december that the uk can revoke its notification and resume its eu membership on the same terms as before, whats your view? "
Very funny we are leaving no deal simples |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Yes it can, the ideal outcome of the brexit process is for the uk to change its mind, revoke article 50 and remain a member, the court of justice made things easier in this regard, when it ruled in december that the uk can revoke its notification and resume its eu membership on the same terms as before, whats your view?
It would certainly help France pay its pension commitments. "
Why should we give a shit about French pensions? |
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"Yes it can, the ideal outcome of the brexit process is for the uk to change its mind, revoke article 50 and remain a member, the court of justice made things easier in this regard, when it ruled in december that the uk can revoke its notification and resume its eu membership on the same terms as before, whats your view?
It would certainly help France pay its pension commitments. Why should we give a shit about French pensions?"
Because we contribute to their payment. |
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The UK can change its mind - the EU election results show that a larger group of remain voters existed this past week. Complex issues affecting the whole of the UK, its economy, its people, its business, world affairs etc, should also be decided upon by people who have the expertise to do this. And the Prime Minister, whoever this is, in conjunction with parliament, should take a leadership position and only do what is right for the country, rather than leaving it to ill-informed people, swayed by populist parties, charlatans, a right-wing media biased towards Brexit and lies from all of these. |
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It seems pretty clear from the past 3 years that the following is true:
Leave gained the largest number of votes in the Referendum, with 17.4m, 38% of the electorate.
Since then, whilst Leave had the majority of votes cast, the fact that 62% of the voting population did not actually vote for Leave, has left our Politicians unable to find a deal that satisfies 100% of the voting population.
The 2017 GE, the Local Elections and now the EC Elections have all shown that more people are against Leave than for it.
So on the basis of all of the above, should we Leave when the majority of voters in 2019 don’t want it to happen?
Or should we have a 2nd Referendum? |
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"It seems pretty clear from the past 3 years that the following is true:
Leave gained the largest number of votes in the Referendum, with 17.4m, 38% of the electorate.
Since then, whilst Leave had the majority of votes cast, the fact that 62% of the voting population did not actually vote for Leave, has left our Politicians unable to find a deal that satisfies 100% of the voting population.
The 2017 GE, the Local Elections and now the EC Elections have all shown that more people are against Leave than for it.
So on the basis of all of the above, should we Leave when the majority of voters in 2019 don’t want it to happen?
Or should we have a 2nd Referendum?"
You are a perfect example of why a second referendum would be a waste of time because you would take no notice of the result!In what way did the Eu elections show there are more people against leave!? There was a clear winner, The Brexit Party or did you not notice that?
The 2017 GE was won by the Conservatives who are a leave party with Labour another leave party in second place! Sounds like people wanted to leave to me!
It's time to take the blinkers off and start seeing the full picture instead of what you want to see or do you prefer to spend your life being deluded! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It seems pretty clear from the past 3 years that the following is true:
Leave gained the largest number of votes in the Referendum, with 17.4m, 38% of the electorate.
Since then, whilst Leave had the majority of votes cast, the fact that 62% of the voting population did not actually vote for Leave, has left our Politicians unable to find a deal that satisfies 100% of the voting population.
The 2017 GE, the Local Elections and now the EC Elections have all shown that more people are against Leave than for it.
So on the basis of all of the above, should we Leave when the majority of voters in 2019 don’t want it to happen?
Or should we have a 2nd Referendum?
You are a perfect example of why a second referendum would be a waste of time because you would take no notice of the result!In what way did the Eu elections show there are more people against leave!? There was a clear winner, The Brexit Party or did you not notice that?
The 2017 GE was won by the Conservatives who are a leave party with Labour another leave party in second place! Sounds like people wanted to leave to me!
It's time to take the blinkers off and start seeing the full picture instead of what you want to see or do you prefer to spend your life being deluded! "
Not the tories and Labour said they'd leave with a deal. There is little evidence* the majority of people would prefer no deal over remain. Thats majority. Not largest minority.
* little evidence here is because the question hasn't really been posed. Rather than saying it has, and there is no evidence. |
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"Yes it can, the ideal outcome of the brexit process is for the uk to change its mind, revoke article 50 and remain a member, the court of justice made things easier in this regard, when it ruled in december that the uk can revoke its notification and resume its eu membership on the same terms as before, whats your view? "
Sorry not got time to read all thread atm lol x but I say we go they messing us about to try force us to stay... that's my quick thoughts anyway x |
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There is certainly no majority for a No Deal Brexit, so that should be binned. Given Labours move to supporting a 2nd Referendum, it would seem that we can now add Labour to the Remain camp. On that basis, Remain has a majority.
It is time to have a genuine, legal, mandatory vote (unlike the 1st one, which was advisory and meant liars couldn’t be jailed). Brexit has failed everybody, not holding a vote is undemocratic. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It shows how effective populism is - no policies, no manifesto, no substance, just a slogan. It's what got us into this mess in the first place.
"
.
There's a rebellion to popularist globalism being counted by popularist nationalism.
It's not a UK only thing it's worldwide, Brazil, Australia, Europe, India, Mexico, Argentina, USA etc etc.
It would seem the people aren't quite ready for a one world government with no borders. |
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"It makes me laugh how these remainers try to spin the result when the brexit party walked it just like the referendum result it must be nice to live in fantasy land.  "
Walked it? Just look how UKIPs support melted away overnight... |
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"It seems pretty clear from the past 3 years that the following is true:
Leave gained the largest number of votes in the Referendum, with 17.4m, 38% of the electorate.
Since then, whilst Leave had the majority of votes cast, the fact that 62% of the voting population did not actually vote for Leave, has left our Politicians unable to find a deal that satisfies 100% of the voting population.
The 2017 GE, the Local Elections and now the EC Elections have all shown that more people are against Leave than for it.
So on the basis of all of the above, should we Leave when the majority of voters in 2019 don’t want it to happen?
Or should we have a 2nd Referendum?
You are a perfect example of why a second referendum would be a waste of time because you would take no notice of the result!In what way did the Eu elections show there are more people against leave!? There was a clear winner, The Brexit Party or did you not notice that?
The 2017 GE was won by the Conservatives who are a leave party with Labour another leave party in second place! Sounds like people wanted to leave to me!
It's time to take the blinkers off and start seeing the full picture instead of what you want to see or do you prefer to spend your life being deluded!
Not the tories and Labour said they'd leave with a deal. There is little evidence* the majority of people would prefer no deal over remain. Thats majority. Not largest minority.
* little evidence here is because the question hasn't really been posed. Rather than saying it has, and there is no evidence. "
Will run that through google translate and get back to you!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It shows how effective populism is - no policies, no manifesto, no substance, just a slogan. It's what got us into this mess in the first place.
.
There's a rebellion to popularist globalism being counted by popularist nationalism.
It's not a UK only thing it's worldwide, Brazil, Australia, Europe, India, Mexico, Argentina, USA etc etc.
It would seem the people aren't quite ready for a one world government with no borders."
Nationalism, globalism. These things only benefit a small minority. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It seems pretty clear from the past 3 years that the following is true:
Leave gained the largest number of votes in the Referendum, with 17.4m, 38% of the electorate.
Since then, whilst Leave had the majority of votes cast, the fact that 62% of the voting population did not actually vote for Leave, has left our Politicians unable to find a deal that satisfies 100% of the voting population.
The 2017 GE, the Local Elections and now the EC Elections have all shown that more people are against Leave than for it.
So on the basis of all of the above, should we Leave when the majority of voters in 2019 don’t want it to happen?
Or should we have a 2nd Referendum?
You are a perfect example of why a second referendum would be a waste of time because you would take no notice of the result!In what way did the Eu elections show there are more people against leave!? There was a clear winner, The Brexit Party or did you not notice that?
The 2017 GE was won by the Conservatives who are a leave party with Labour another leave party in second place! Sounds like people wanted to leave to me!
It's time to take the blinkers off and start seeing the full picture instead of what you want to see or do you prefer to spend your life being deluded!
Not the tories and Labour said they'd leave with a deal. There is little evidence* the majority of people would prefer no deal over remain. Thats majority. Not largest minority.
* little evidence here is because the question hasn't really been posed. Rather than saying it has, and there is no evidence.
Will run that through google translate and get back to you! "
I do waffle. You say the GE was dominated by parties which ran on a manifesto to leave. I'm saying they ran on a manideatonto leave with a deal. So anybody who says the people want is to leave without a deal can't point to any evidence to support this. |
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"It seems pretty clear from the past 3 years that the following is true:
Leave gained the largest number of votes in the Referendum, with 17.4m, 38% of the electorate.
Since then, whilst Leave had the majority of votes cast, the fact that 62% of the voting population did not actually vote for Leave, has left our Politicians unable to find a deal that satisfies 100% of the voting population.
The 2017 GE, the Local Elections and now the EC Elections have all shown that more people are against Leave than for it.
So on the basis of all of the above, should we Leave when the majority of voters in 2019 don’t want it to happen?
Or should we have a 2nd Referendum?
You are a perfect example of why a second referendum would be a waste of time because you would take no notice of the result!In what way did the Eu elections show there are more people against leave!? There was a clear winner, The Brexit Party or did you not notice that?
The 2017 GE was won by the Conservatives who are a leave party with Labour another leave party in second place! Sounds like people wanted to leave to me!
It's time to take the blinkers off and start seeing the full picture instead of what you want to see or do you prefer to spend your life being deluded!
Not the tories and Labour said they'd leave with a deal. There is little evidence* the majority of people would prefer no deal over remain. Thats majority. Not largest minority.
* little evidence here is because the question hasn't really been posed. Rather than saying it has, and there is no evidence.
Will run that through google translate and get back to you!
I do waffle. You say the GE was dominated by parties which ran on a manifesto to leave. I'm saying they ran on a manideatonto leave with a deal. So anybody who says the people want is to leave without a deal can't point to any evidence to support this. "
I never mentioned having or not having a deal! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It seems pretty clear from the past 3 years that the following is true:
Leave gained the largest number of votes in the Referendum, with 17.4m, 38% of the electorate.
Since then, whilst Leave had the majority of votes cast, the fact that 62% of the voting population did not actually vote for Leave, has left our Politicians unable to find a deal that satisfies 100% of the voting population.
The 2017 GE, the Local Elections and now the EC Elections have all shown that more people are against Leave than for it.
So on the basis of all of the above, should we Leave when the majority of voters in 2019 don’t want it to happen?
Or should we have a 2nd Referendum?
You are a perfect example of why a second referendum would be a waste of time because you would take no notice of the result!In what way did the Eu elections show there are more people against leave!? There was a clear winner, The Brexit Party or did you not notice that?
The 2017 GE was won by the Conservatives who are a leave party with Labour another leave party in second place! Sounds like people wanted to leave to me!
It's time to take the blinkers off and start seeing the full picture instead of what you want to see or do you prefer to spend your life being deluded!
Not the tories and Labour said they'd leave with a deal. There is little evidence* the majority of people would prefer no deal over remain. Thats majority. Not largest minority.
* little evidence here is because the question hasn't really been posed. Rather than saying it has, and there is no evidence.
Will run that through google translate and get back to you!
I do waffle. You say the GE was dominated by parties which ran on a manifesto to leave. I'm saying they ran on a manideatonto leave with a deal. So anybody who says the people want is to leave without a deal can't point to any evidence to support this.
I never mentioned having or not having a deal!"
Fair. But there is an implication made by many (and which I may have also attributes to you) that when the people voted to leave/vote toy/vote Labour this includes no deal leave. It dong believe it did. The people voted to leave with a deal. Anything which is not a deal has no mandate. Be this no deal or stay. While everyone talks stay as reversing the democratic will of the people, not many are saying no deal is a similar over rule. I was reacting to what want said (and the way people play in the silence) not what was said.
I'm waffling again.
Pity Mrs G, eh? |
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"It seems pretty clear from the past 3 years that the following is true:
Leave gained the largest number of votes in the Referendum, with 17.4m, 38% of the electorate.
Since then, whilst Leave had the majority of votes cast, the fact that 62% of the voting population did not actually vote for Leave, has left our Politicians unable to find a deal that satisfies 100% of the voting population.
The 2017 GE, the Local Elections and now the EC Elections have all shown that more people are against Leave than for it.
So on the basis of all of the above, should we Leave when the majority of voters in 2019 don’t want it to happen?
Or should we have a 2nd Referendum?
You are a perfect example of why a second referendum would be a waste of time because you would take no notice of the result!In what way did the Eu elections show there are more people against leave!? There was a clear winner, The Brexit Party or did you not notice that?
The 2017 GE was won by the Conservatives who are a leave party with Labour another leave party in second place! Sounds like people wanted to leave to me!
It's time to take the blinkers off and start seeing the full picture instead of what you want to see or do you prefer to spend your life being deluded!
Not the tories and Labour said they'd leave with a deal. There is little evidence* the majority of people would prefer no deal over remain. Thats majority. Not largest minority.
* little evidence here is because the question hasn't really been posed. Rather than saying it has, and there is no evidence.
Will run that through google translate and get back to you!
I do waffle. You say the GE was dominated by parties which ran on a manifesto to leave. I'm saying they ran on a manideatonto leave with a deal. So anybody who says the people want is to leave without a deal can't point to any evidence to support this.
I never mentioned having or not having a deal!
Fair. But there is an implication made by many (and which I may have also attributes to you) that when the people voted to leave/vote toy/vote Labour this includes no deal leave. It dong believe it did. The people voted to leave with a deal. Anything which is not a deal has no mandate. Be this no deal or stay. While everyone talks stay as reversing the democratic will of the people, not many are saying no deal is a similar over rule. I was reacting to what want said (and the way people play in the silence) not what was said.
I'm waffling again.
Pity Mrs G, eh? "
We all have our crosses to bear! |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"So if we have a referendum and remain win ....do we then have a third one ....plus will the question be in or out"
If the Brexit Party won a General Election, yes I imagine we would.
Quebec came up with a name for it.
The neverendum.
That's what it would be like here.
In, out
Shake it all about.
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"Yes it can, the ideal outcome of the brexit process is for the uk to change its mind, revoke article 50 and remain a member, the court of justice made things easier in this regard, when it ruled in december that the uk can revoke its notification and resume its eu membership on the same terms as before, whats your view?
I agree, but there obviously needs to be a second vote. I voted remain , but accepted that the majority voted leave, however I don’t accept that the majority voted to leave with no deal
Yes, but the truth is that you have no idea what those who voted leave wanted.
I would suggest that many who voted leave did so because they wanted out of ALL of the EU 'institutions' - the Customs Union, Single market, ECJ etc
I get where you're coming from, but what you must also accept is that it is of course entirely possible that they did."
Put, as what was promised was to Leave with a deal it's not unreasonable to assume that that is what those that voted Leave were voting for and, as such, is the only mandate that the referendum can give. If anything else is done then, unless you can show that not even 2 in every 50 who voted leave would not agree with it, there is no mandate for it. And the only way you can show that all those that voted to Leave with a deal are happy to Leave with 'no deal' is to ask them all again.
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One of the least democratic things is for a small group of people, the members of the conservatives, to now elect the new Prime Minister, who may want to impose their own flavour of EU relationship. |
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"One of the least democratic things is for a small group of people, the members of the conservatives, to now elect the new Prime Minister, who may want to impose their own flavour of EU relationship. "
Don't worry too much about that. The Conservative party is in full self destruct mode right now. They're just about to elect a Leader that, if they try and do what they're going to have to promise to do to win, namely to try to Leave with a 'no deal' exit, will simply trigger a General Election, which they'll lose badly.
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Good to see Ireland, France and the EU removing Ireland's dependence on the UK for electricity.
Ireland's only inter-connector with another EU state is to the UK.
The UK is leaving the electricity market, which leaves Ireland vulnerable.
Approval now for a new inter-connector between Ireland and France which will also include a telecoms cable.
Cost £1 billion, with the EU picking up 60 per cent of the cost and Ireland and France the remainder.
Good to see the EU helping its members avoid some of the collateral damage from Brexit.
I think we will see more initiatives like this to protect countries vulnerable to a renegade in No 10. |
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