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A second referendum.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I heard yesterday when they interviewed may that she was hinting abit that it could be a very good chance of one comming soon, whats your view? I can see this happening of how everything is going  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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In reality it's actually pretty unlikely as the Prime Minister has only included the option of the House voting on whether or not to hold a second referendum IF her new bill gets voted through.
It's actually looking like her latest withdrawal bill meaningful vote is likely to be defeated by a greater margin than on the last attempt |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Whoever takes over will be trapped in the same maze as May.
The only way out of it will be a general election or a 2nd referendum.
The Brexit Party would eat up a huge number of Tory seats if an election is held while the UK is still in the EU.
So that leaves a new leader with one choice to get a mandate for a no-deal exit - a referendum. |
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Why not have a 2nd vote? We have seen how Leave lied, we have seen the direct impact on ordinary people of Brexit - British Steel collapse and we’ve had 3 years of groundhog day. Surely, going back to the voters and asking our views with all this experience is the democratic way forward? |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Why not have a 2nd vote? We have seen how Leave lied, we have seen the direct impact on ordinary people of Brexit - British Steel collapse and we’ve had 3 years of groundhog day. Surely, going back to the voters and asking our views with all this experience is the democratic way forward?"
Because we have already had one.We were told we would lose 500,000 jobs have an emergency budget house prices would fall if we even dared to voted leave none of which has happened so remain lied.Just because you personally dont like the result why should we have another? what would be your response if it happened and the country voted to leave again?
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" what would be your response if it happened and the country voted to leave again?
They would start moaning that they want a third referendum..."
So put it to the test, the number of job losses is totting up every day... |
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There should be a second referendum, as the initial one was based on multiple lies, dishonesty and illegal behaviour - plus the needs of a changed population are very different 3 years later. Many people who voted 3 years ago have died, whilst other younger people are now able to vote.
The major difference now is that everyone has greater amounts of information upon what the possible leaving arrangements from the EU, can actually entail for the country as well as for individuals. Rather than the initial referendum being based upon lies and speculation, this referendum can be based upon the reality, as currently known.
May is clutching at straws - she's a leader in name only LINO, as many of her party are campaigning to become her replacement, as soon as they can get her out. She's been doling out any old bits of this, that and the other, trying to entice enough MPs to vote for the agreement that the conservatives negotiated with the EU. She doesn't really want to offer a referendum but it's been worth her putting it out there, trying to save some face. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
" what would be your response if it happened and the country voted to leave again?
They would start moaning that they want a third referendum...
So put it to the test, the number of job losses is totting up every day..."
Why ?because remain mps will not vote for anything apart from a second referendum its uncertainty that is causing all the problems and lack of investment and thats why we need to get on with it.Looking forward to the eu results and when leave storm that should then kill off the remainers apart from vince and the greens who are irreverent anyway. |
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"There should be a second referendum, as the initial one was based on multiple lies, dishonesty and illegal behaviour - plus the needs of a changed population are very different 3 years later. Many people who voted 3 years ago have died, whilst other younger people are now able to vote.
The major difference now is that everyone has greater amounts of information upon what the possible leaving arrangements from the EU, can actually entail for the country as well as for individuals. Rather than the initial referendum being based upon lies and speculation, this referendum can be based upon the reality, as currently known.
May is clutching at straws - she's a leader in name only LINO, as many of her party are campaigning to become her replacement, as soon as they can get her out. She's been doling out any old bits of this, that and the other, trying to entice enough MPs to vote for the agreement that the conservatives negotiated with the EU. She doesn't really want to offer a referendum but it's been worth her putting it out there, trying to save some face."
Could you post an exact figure of how many leave voters have died?
No I thought not!
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" what would be your response if it happened and the country voted to leave again?
They would start moaning that they want a third referendum...
So put it to the test, the number of job losses is totting up every day...Why ?because remain mps will not vote for anything apart from a second referendum its uncertainty that is causing all the problems and lack of investment and thats why we need to get on with it.Looking forward to the eu results and when leave storm that should then kill off the remainers apart from vince and the greens who are irreverent anyway. "
Put it too a 2nd referendum and it will all be resolved quickly. Why wouldn’t we do it, the only real reason Leave would deny the opportunity is because you believe that public opinion has changed. & if it has then so be it. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
" what would be your response if it happened and the country voted to leave again?
They would start moaning that they want a third referendum...
So put it to the test, the number of job losses is totting up every day...Why ?because remain mps will not vote for anything apart from a second referendum its uncertainty that is causing all the problems and lack of investment and thats why we need to get on with it.Looking forward to the eu results and when leave storm that should then kill off the remainers apart from vince and the greens who are irreverent anyway.
Put it too a 2nd referendum and it will all be resolved quickly. Why wouldn’t we do it, the only real reason Leave would deny the opportunity is because you believe that public opinion has changed. & if it has then so be it."
What bit about once in a generation vote did you not understand last time? |
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" what would be your response if it happened and the country voted to leave again?
They would start moaning that they want a third referendum...
So put it to the test, the number of job losses is totting up every day...Why ?because remain mps will not vote for anything apart from a second referendum its uncertainty that is causing all the problems and lack of investment and thats why we need to get on with it.Looking forward to the eu results and when leave storm that should then kill off the remainers apart from vince and the greens who are irreverent anyway.
Put it too a 2nd referendum and it will all be resolved quickly. Why wouldn’t we do it, the only real reason Leave would deny the opportunity is because you believe that public opinion has changed. & if it has then so be it.What bit about once in a generation vote did you not understand last time?"
What bit about the lies Leave told did you miss? |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
" what would be your response if it happened and the country voted to leave again?
They would start moaning that they want a third referendum...
So put it to the test, the number of job losses is totting up every day...Why ?because remain mps will not vote for anything apart from a second referendum its uncertainty that is causing all the problems and lack of investment and thats why we need to get on with it.Looking forward to the eu results and when leave storm that should then kill off the remainers apart from vince and the greens who are irreverent anyway.
Put it too a 2nd referendum and it will all be resolved quickly. Why wouldn’t we do it, the only real reason Leave would deny the opportunity is because you believe that public opinion has changed. & if it has then so be it.What bit about once in a generation vote did you not understand last time?
What bit about the lies Leave told did you miss?"
Not really answering my question is it? |
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By *ky19Man
over a year ago
Plymouth |
So all her talk of never having a second referendum comes to nothing. It's no surprise that Treason has lied to us, as she has done all along.
"My mandate is to deliver brexit for the British people!"
She has done her job as given to her by her globalist masters well - which is to stop brexit happening!
As for any of the public who want a second referendum when we already had one, with no-deal being the default for the leave option, I have some harsh words:
In my opinion, they have forfeited their right to claim to want democracy ever again, having shown they despise such, or more accurately, only want democracy when it suits them.
Harsh but fair?
So, basically anyone wanting to get out of the occult Lucifer worshipping club, aka the EU (the organisation the EU as opposed to Europe itself which I love!) who want us all locked under their umbrella to eventually become one world government of total control - in other words, us being fucked for good - only really have two choices; UKIP or Brexit party.
Oh well, I guess sometimes tough sacrifices have to be made for freedom, and I guess nothing really worth having comes easy.
For anyone voting 'leave' tommorow, PLEASE take a strong black pen with you. Whatever you do don't use a pencil to mark your vote. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" what would be your response if it happened and the country voted to leave again?
They would start moaning that they want a third referendum...
So put it to the test, the number of job losses is totting up every day...Why ?because remain mps will not vote for anything apart from a second referendum its uncertainty that is causing all the problems and lack of investment and thats why we need to get on with it.Looking forward to the eu results and when leave storm that should then kill off the remainers apart from vince and the greens who are irreverent anyway.
Put it too a 2nd referendum and it will all be resolved quickly. Why wouldn’t we do it, the only real reason Leave would deny the opportunity is because you believe that public opinion has changed. & if it has then so be it.What bit about once in a generation vote did you not understand last time?
What bit about the lies Leave told did you miss?Not really answering my question is it?"
I don't ever recall being told it was once in a lifetime.
I do recall some on saying 48 52 is unfinished business.
I also recall being told there would be a deal.
I don't recall anyone singing the virtues of wto.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" what would be your response if it happened and the country voted to leave again?
They would start moaning that they want a third referendum...
So put it to the test, the number of job losses is totting up every day...Why ?because remain mps will not vote for anything apart from a second referendum its uncertainty that is causing all the problems and lack of investment and thats why we need to get on with it.Looking forward to the eu results and when leave storm that should then kill off the remainers apart from vince and the greens who are irreverent anyway.
Put it too a 2nd referendum and it will all be resolved quickly. Why wouldn’t we do it, the only real reason Leave would deny the opportunity is because you believe that public opinion has changed. & if it has then so be it.What bit about once in a generation vote did you not understand last time?
What bit about the lies Leave told did you miss?"
What about the scare tactics used by remoan? Oh and Obama’s interference. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
" what would be your response if it happened and the country voted to leave again?
They would start moaning that they want a third referendum...
So put it to the test, the number of job losses is totting up every day...Why ?because remain mps will not vote for anything apart from a second referendum its uncertainty that is causing all the problems and lack of investment and thats why we need to get on with it.Looking forward to the eu results and when leave storm that should then kill off the remainers apart from vince and the greens who are irreverent anyway.
Put it too a 2nd referendum and it will all be resolved quickly. Why wouldn’t we do it, the only real reason Leave would deny the opportunity is because you believe that public opinion has changed. & if it has then so be it.What bit about once in a generation vote did you not understand last time?
What bit about the lies Leave told did you miss?Not really answering my question is it?
I don't ever recall being told it was once in a lifetime.
I do recall some on saying 48 52 is unfinished business.
I also recall being told there would be a deal.
I don't recall anyone singing the virtues of wto.
"
Well you may not recall it but the vote was rolled out as once in a generation vote. |
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By *ky19Man
over a year ago
Plymouth |
OK then yeah second referendum then. Despite the relentless media campaign for 3 years, and the usual tactics of bullying anyone who voted leave, treating it as taboo that people have to keep silent about - all that still may not have been enough to turn the tide - we will find out.
We will probably have a second referendum as soon as those running things are confident they will finally get the result they want, and not end up storming off in outrage as Murdoch did last time - having bragged he has never lost an election. Seems the same thing happened in Ireland - first referendum doesn't count for whatever reason, so have a second then a third - until they finally gave up their independence.
Make sure you take a thick black pen, do not use one of their shit pencils if you are voting for a party that wants to leave.
Hopefully there won't be any extra ballot boxes that suddenly turn up after counting is complete, which then tip the result over.That's getting quite old now.
A notorious case being Amber Rudd in 2015 who lost her vote. Was it even 5 times it was recounted (can't remember, sure it was only 2 I need to check)? but no she lost her seat. Good job for her someone then rushed in with another ballot box they had magically found, which when counted, tipped the vote in her favour and she got to stay after all. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Why not have a 2nd vote? We have seen how Leave lied, we have seen the direct impact on ordinary people of Brexit - British Steel collapse and we’ve had 3 years of groundhog day. Surely, going back to the voters and asking our views with all this experience is the democratic way forward?"
That is right, the reason they dont want it is cos they want to blame the remainers and eu as the reality is quickly hitting home, it is democracy to have a second referendum.
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" what would be your response if it happened and the country voted to leave again?
They would start moaning that they want a third referendum...
So put it to the test, the number of job losses is totting up every day...Why ?because remain mps will not vote for anything apart from a second referendum its uncertainty that is causing all the problems and lack of investment and thats why we need to get on with it.Looking forward to the eu results and when leave storm that should then kill off the remainers apart from vince and the greens who are irreverent anyway.
Put it too a 2nd referendum and it will all be resolved quickly. Why wouldn’t we do it, the only real reason Leave would deny the opportunity is because you believe that public opinion has changed. & if it has then so be it.What bit about once in a generation vote did you not understand last time?
What bit about the lies Leave told did you miss?
What about the scare tactics used by remoan? Oh and Obama’s interference."
So interestingly Remain scare tactics are proving to be right, and Leave lies are proving to be just that.
So lets make it a mandatory second referendum, so any future liars can be locked up!? As Trump loves yelling out ‘lock him up’, sorry I meant her but Farage and BJ will do...  |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
" what would be your response if it happened and the country voted to leave again?
They would start moaning that they want a third referendum...
So put it to the test, the number of job losses is totting up every day...Why ?because remain mps will not vote for anything apart from a second referendum its uncertainty that is causing all the problems and lack of investment and thats why we need to get on with it.Looking forward to the eu results and when leave storm that should then kill off the remainers apart from vince and the greens who are irreverent anyway.
Put it too a 2nd referendum and it will all be resolved quickly. Why wouldn’t we do it, the only real reason Leave would deny the opportunity is because you believe that public opinion has changed. & if it has then so be it.What bit about once in a generation vote did you not understand last time?
What bit about the lies Leave told did you miss?
What about the scare tactics used by remoan? Oh and Obama’s interference.
So interestingly Remain scare tactics are proving to be right, and Leave lies are proving to be just that.
So lets make it a mandatory second referendum, so any future liars can be locked up!? As Trump loves yelling out ‘lock him up’, sorry I meant her but Farage and BJ will do... "
What remain scare tactics are proving to be right? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I've been having some friendly banter with my nephew about this. He wants a so called Peoples vote. I said Ok let's think this through. So..........
What's going to be on the paper
His reply. The deal on offer and remain.
Bear with me as his argument immediately falls down because let's face it at the moment probably 20 to 30% of population are happy to go no deal. So what about them then
Don't they get a say ?.
Ok let's go other way then The Peter Bonehead way with the deal or no deal only options.
Hey. I don't get a say then says My Nephew.
OK, who started this campaign for a Peoples vote. Ermmmmm it was Liberal democrats wasn't it. Don't they have a vested interest in their view being on the ballot paper therefore they are bound to want remain.
So I said hmmmmm you know this hung parliament we have now has a thing called an electoral commission which decides what goes on the ballot paper. So let's say a referendum is called for by parliament. How the sweaty hell are they going to decide what's on the ballot paper unless we have a general election to break the stale mate.
So in the end you end up going round and round in circles. There is no answer. As I said it is a Kuboyashi maru situation.
Anyone got the answer ??? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I've been having some friendly banter with my nephew about this. He wants a so called Peoples vote. I said Ok let's think this through. So..........
What's going to be on the paper
His reply. The deal on offer and remain.
Bear with me as his argument immediately falls down because let's face it at the moment probably 20 to 30% of population are happy to go no deal. So what about them then
Don't they get a say ?.
Ok let's go other way then The Peter Bonehead way with the deal or no deal only options.
Hey. I don't get a say then says My Nephew.
OK, who started this campaign for a Peoples vote. Ermmmmm it was Liberal democrats wasn't it. Don't they have a vested interest in their view being on the ballot paper therefore they are bound to want remain.
So I said hmmmmm you know this hung parliament we have now has a thing called an electoral commission which decides what goes on the ballot paper. So let's say a referendum is called for by parliament. How the sweaty hell are they going to decide what's on the ballot paper unless we have a general election to break the stale mate.
So in the end you end up going round and round in circles. There is no answer. As I said it is a Kuboyashi maru situation.
Anyone got the answer ???"
Yes I actually now think that the best way forward and the interest of the country is to cancel brexit altogether  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've been having some friendly banter with my nephew about this. He wants a so called Peoples vote. I said Ok let's think this through. So..........
What's going to be on the paper
His reply. The deal on offer and remain.
Bear with me as his argument immediately falls down because let's face it at the moment probably 20 to 30% of population are happy to go no deal. So what about them then
Don't they get a say ?.
Ok let's go other way then The Peter Bonehead way with the deal or no deal only options.
Hey. I don't get a say then says My Nephew.
OK, who started this campaign for a Peoples vote. Ermmmmm it was Liberal democrats wasn't it. Don't they have a vested interest in their view being on the ballot paper therefore they are bound to want remain.
So I said hmmmmm you know this hung parliament we have now has a thing called an electoral commission which decides what goes on the ballot paper. So let's say a referendum is called for by parliament. How the sweaty hell are they going to decide what's on the ballot paper unless we have a general election to break the stale mate.
So in the end you end up going round and round in circles. There is no answer. As I said it is a Kuboyashi maru situation.
Anyone got the answer ???Yes I actually now think that the best way forward and the interest of the country is to cancel brexit altogether "
A possible two tier ballot paper with the main vote leave/remain and then a second level stating that in the event of leave winning would you prefer deal/no deal. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've been having some friendly banter with my nephew about this. He wants a so called Peoples vote. I said Ok let's think this through. So..........
What's going to be on the paper
His reply. The deal on offer and remain.
Bear with me as his argument immediately falls down because let's face it at the moment probably 20 to 30% of population are happy to go no deal. So what about them then
Don't they get a say ?.
Ok let's go other way then The Peter Bonehead way with the deal or no deal only options.
Hey. I don't get a say then says My Nephew.
OK, who started this campaign for a Peoples vote. Ermmmmm it was Liberal democrats wasn't it. Don't they have a vested interest in their view being on the ballot paper therefore they are bound to want remain.
So I said hmmmmm you know this hung parliament we have now has a thing called an electoral commission which decides what goes on the ballot paper. So let's say a referendum is called for by parliament. How the sweaty hell are they going to decide what's on the ballot paper unless we have a general election to break the stale mate.
So in the end you end up going round and round in circles. There is no answer. As I said it is a Kuboyashi maru situation.
Anyone got the answer ???Yes I actually now think that the best way forward and the interest of the country is to cancel brexit altogether
A possible two tier ballot paper with the main vote leave/remain and then a second level stating that in the event of leave winning would you prefer deal/no deal."
Yes but what about remainers that lost in this hypothetical referendum. Wouldn't they perhaps like to be able to leave with a deal if they lost. I'm afraid that would not work either. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've been having some friendly banter with my nephew about this. He wants a so called Peoples vote. I said Ok let's think this through. So..........
What's going to be on the paper
His reply. The deal on offer and remain.
Bear with me as his argument immediately falls down because let's face it at the moment probably 20 to 30% of population are happy to go no deal. So what about them then
Don't they get a say ?.
Ok let's go other way then The Peter Bonehead way with the deal or no deal only options.
Hey. I don't get a say then says My Nephew.
OK, who started this campaign for a Peoples vote. Ermmmmm it was Liberal democrats wasn't it. Don't they have a vested interest in their view being on the ballot paper therefore they are bound to want remain.
So I said hmmmmm you know this hung parliament we have now has a thing called an electoral commission which decides what goes on the ballot paper. So let's say a referendum is called for by parliament. How the sweaty hell are they going to decide what's on the ballot paper unless we have a general election to break the stale mate.
So in the end you end up going round and round in circles. There is no answer. As I said it is a Kuboyashi maru situation.
Anyone got the answer ???Yes I actually now think that the best way forward and the interest of the country is to cancel brexit altogether
A possible two tier ballot paper with the main vote leave/remain and then a second level stating that in the event of leave winning would you prefer deal/no deal.
Yes but what about remainers that lost in this hypothetical referendum. Wouldn't they perhaps like to be able to leave with a deal if they lost. I'm afraid that would not work either."
The only logical way forward would be a proper second preference one. Somebody on another thread said well why don't we have all the different options for leave on the table. There's no need for that because negotiations can take place if leave with deal won. Remain or leave with no deal no longer have any reason to argue because they both lost, The EU can rest assured that after the deal is struck there is a consensus in the country to honour the deal.
It's actually quite simple really but no one seems to understand why it works. Perhaps they just don't want to.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Firstly I think the "once in a lifetime" referendum should be declared null and void due to the interference of Cambridge Analyica's interference in the result. It's undemocratic.
Secondly I believe everyone, including our own government are a lot wiser now than they were three years ago and might feel very differently on the issue. One thing for sure is if I made a decision based on lies I would like an opportunity to reverse that decision.
And lastly I believe that British citizens living outside of the UK should be allowed to vote on Brexit since it probably affects them more than anyone else.
If as leavers maintain, Brexit is the will of the British people then they should welcome a second referendum to ratify this decision. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If you could go back 3 years in time and asked voters what the Irish Backstop was do you think they would have been able to tell you?
Another point is that some rather rich and powerful people stand to make a lot of money shorting the pound. So while the unimaginably rich will be making even more money and the disparity of division of wealth in the UK will be even worse. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you could go back 3 years in time and asked voters what the Irish Backstop was do you think they would have been able to tell you?
Another point is that some rather rich and powerful people stand to make a lot of money shorting the pound. So while the unimaginably rich will be making even more money and the disparity of division of wealth in the UK will be even worse."
All I am saying is Brexit was and still is a 3 way question. Leave, remain or leave with whatever deal they could cobble together. Successive governments have tried to solve a 3 way question with a 2 answer referendum and they are completely screwed no matter what they try. I don't think a general election will work either unless one of the party's wins a landslide.
When David Cameron had his chance the paper should have said, Leave with my compromise offer or something else we negotiate, remain or leave with no deal. If my suspicions were right reamin would still have got 48%, leave would have got say 45% and to then get leave over the line the second preference votes would have swung it.
Of course it could have been other way round but we will never know eh. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why can't we have a people's vote and a general election on the same day. Just have two ballet papers makes sense to me x"
Good idea. Kill two birds with one stone. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you could go back 3 years in time and asked voters what the Irish Backstop was do you think they would have been able to tell you?
Another point is that some rather rich and powerful people stand to make a lot of money shorting the pound. So while the unimaginably rich will be making even more money and the disparity of division of wealth in the UK will be even worse.
All I am saying is Brexit was and still is a 3 way question. Leave, remain or leave with whatever deal they could cobble together. Successive governments have tried to solve a 3 way question with a 2 answer referendum and they are completely screwed no matter what they try. I don't think a general election will work either unless one of the party's wins a landslide.
When David Cameron had his chance the paper should have said, Leave with my compromise offer or something else we negotiate, remain or leave with no deal. If my suspicions were right reamin would still have got 48%, leave would have got say 45% and to then get leave over the line the second preference votes would have swung it.
Of course it could have been other way round but we will never know eh."
I think you hit the nail on the head. I don't think ANY of us suspected that the issue would be so complicated. If we had known all the ins and out we might have voted differently. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why can't we have a people's vote and a general election on the same day. Just have two ballet papers makes sense to me x"
got to be the worst idea one would cancel out the other.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Question time tonight is in the north east I think I think labour will see the mood in the north east and shit them selves "
who the labour MP on tonight poor sod
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Question time tonight is in the north east I think I think labour will see the mood in the north east and shit them selves "
Why? What is the ‘mood’ in the north east? |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Question time tonight is in the north east I think I think labour will see the mood in the north east and shit them selves who the labour MP on tonight poor sod "
Richard Leonard, leader of Labour in Scotland |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Question time tonight is in the north east I think I think labour will see the mood in the north east and shit them selves who the labour MP on tonight poor sod "
The super rich being kept in power and made even richer by the poor. They must be laughing their asses off. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic.
The British people are the first nation in history to have imposed sanctions on themselves. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why can't we have a people's vote and a general election on the same day. Just have two ballet papers makes sense to me xgot to be the worst idea one would cancel out the other. "
How so we vote to leave remain or leave with a deal. Then vote for who we want as our next prime minister x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why can't we have a people's vote and a general election on the same day. Just have two ballet papers makes sense to me x"
Agreed, but what use is a peoples vote if the question we want asked is not on the ballot paper, Brexit is not a 2 question problem. Why insist on 2 questions when Brexit is a 3 question problem.
With just 2 boxes it is fundamentally a flawed referendum. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why can't we have a people's vote and a general election on the same day. Just have two ballet papers makes sense to me x
Agreed, but what use is a peoples vote if the question we want asked is not on the ballot paper, Brexit is not a 2 question problem. Why insist on 2 questions when Brexit is a 3 question problem.
With just 2 boxes it is fundamentally a flawed referendum."
p.s. And needs a 2nd preference box. If anyone can argue why not then please shoot me down.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why can't we have a people's vote and a general election on the same day. Just have two ballet papers makes sense to me x
Agreed, but what use is a peoples vote if the question we want asked is not on the ballot paper, Brexit is not a 2 question problem. Why insist on 2 questions when Brexit is a 3 question problem.
With just 2 boxes it is fundamentally a flawed referendum.
p.s. And needs a 2nd preference box. If anyone can argue why not then please shoot me down.
"
Apart from "we've already had one"because
A I actually accept the result and
B I know that, I am not stupid. I am just asking why Brexit is not a Binary question
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why can't we have a people's vote and a general election on the same day. Just have two ballet papers makes sense to me x
Sleeping Beauty or Nutcracker ?
 "
Behave .  |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Why can't we have a people's vote and a general election on the same day. Just have two ballet papers makes sense to me xgot to be the worst idea one would cancel out the other.
How so we vote to leave remain or leave with a deal. Then vote for who we want as our next prime minister x"
You don't get to vote for a Prime Minister.
Only a local representative.
It's a very hierarchal system.
The ruling class have not given up all control, yet. |
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"Question time tonight is in the north east I think I think labour will see the mood in the north east and shit them selves
Why? What is the ‘mood’ in the north east?"
hazard a guess it’s in South Shields tnite 62% leave 37% remain |
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"Question time tonight is in the north east I think I think labour will see the mood in the north east and shit them selves who the labour MP on tonight poor sod
Richard Leonard, leader of Labour in Scotland "
They call him Richard The Lyinfart up here. He's from N. Yorkshire. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Question time tonight is in the north east I think I think labour will see the mood in the north east and shit them selves
Why? What is the ‘mood’ in the north east? hazard a guess it’s in South Shields tnite 62% leave 37% remain "
You tell me? And which deal are they ‘all’ happy with? The Boris deal or no deal? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I guess the point is referendums are usually simplistic and binary and as you say the question was and still is too complex for most of us to make any choice except the one our gut tells us to take which will be driven by emotion which is always a bad idea - having said that, I doubt even the wisdom of solomon could pull this shit show together. Ah well....happy fabbing  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I guess the point is referendums are usually simplistic and binary and as you say the question was and still is too complex for most of us to make any choice except the one our gut tells us to take which will be driven by emotion which is always a bad idea - having said that, I doubt even the wisdom of solomon could pull this shit show together. Ah well....happy fabbing "
The problem is people make their choices based on information. Information is supplied by the media. The people who control the media have a vested interest in themselves, not the wellbeing of the country as a whole.
So the question is, do we want UK to be better off or do we want a few super rich people to be even richer at our expense? |
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"Question time tonight is in the north east I think I think labour will see the mood in the north east and shit them selves
Why? What is the ‘mood’ in the north east? hazard a guess it’s in South Shields tnite 62% leave 37% remain
You tell me? And which deal are they ‘all’ happy with? The Boris deal or no deal? "
myselfe I’d go for the Boris deal |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Question time tonight is in the north east I think I think labour will see the mood in the north east and shit them selves
Why? What is the ‘mood’ in the north east? hazard a guess it’s in South Shields tnite 62% leave 37% remain
You tell me? And which deal are they ‘all’ happy with? The Boris deal or no deal? myselfe I’d go for the Boris deal "
Boris would have taken any deal. He would rather be dead in s ditch. So a deal where the people of the UK are screwed over 6 love 6 love is still preferable.
Do you think chosing a lying conniving maniplutive dishonest PM who comits high treason and breaks the law is a good representative for the British people? I like to think we're better than that.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Question time tonight is in the north east I think I think labour will see the mood in the north east and shit them selves
Why? What is the ‘mood’ in the north east? hazard a guess it’s in South Shields tnite 62% leave 37% remain
You tell me? And which deal are they ‘all’ happy with? The Boris deal or no deal? myselfe I’d go for the Boris deal "
Do you speak for everyone who voted leave?? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Ha ha
No one has answered or cannot answer my question without going into the politics of it. We have all got screwed over by the politicians of all parties who try to brainwash us with their political bollocks. If you stand back and look rationally at what has gone on you can only come to 2 conclusions
A go with the deal that has been offered and make the most of it. which is what the original flawed referendum gave us because when you voted to leave you effectively voted to leave with a deal and without a deal. Remain also had 2 options and lost by the way. Remain with DC's crappy deal or remain, exactly as we are.
B have a second 3 way 2nd preference vote where 3 options are argued for and against by the 3 vested parties and we have an adult debate about it LOL.
Never gonna happen by the way.
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"Question time tonight is in the north east I think I think labour will see the mood in the north east and shit them selves
Why? What is the ‘mood’ in the north east? hazard a guess it’s in South Shields tnite 62% leave 37% remain
You tell me? And which deal are they ‘all’ happy with? The Boris deal or no deal? myselfe I’d go for the Boris deal
Do you speak for everyone who voted leave?? "
lol if you read back I wrote myselfe that means just me no one speaks for all leavers or all remainers even you is that more clear for you lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I guess the point is referendums are usually simplistic and binary and as you say the question was and still is too complex for most of us to make any choice except the one our gut tells us to take which will be driven by emotion which is always a bad idea - having said that, I doubt even the wisdom of solomon could pull this shit show together. Ah well....happy fabbing "
So you're saying that people like us are too stupid to vote in referendums then ???. Isn't that what politicians want you to think. Uncle Boris and jeremy will sort it all out for you. Don't worry. After this shit fest we will never be allowed another referendum ever again. Some people will say good riddance. |
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"If you could go back 3 years in time and asked voters what the Irish Backstop was do you think they would have been able to tell you?
Another point is that some rather rich and powerful people stand to make a lot of money shorting the pound. So while the unimaginably rich will be making even more money and the disparity of division of wealth in the UK will be even worse.
All I am saying is Brexit was and still is a 3 way question. Leave, remain or leave with whatever deal they could cobble together. Successive governments have tried to solve a 3 way question with a 2 answer referendum and they are completely screwed no matter what they try. I don't think a general election will work either unless one of the party's wins a landslide.
When David Cameron had his chance the paper should have said, Leave with my compromise offer or something else we negotiate, remain or leave with no deal. If my suspicions were right reamin would still have got 48%, leave would have got say 45% and to then get leave over the line the second preference votes would have swung it.
Of course it could have been other way round but we will never know eh."
The referendum had just two boxes because at the time ALL the campaigners for leave were promising that before leaving there would be world wide international deals in place that would beat the EU pants down. The easiest negotiations in history they said. That it was just the EU that was not allowing all these amazing deals that the UK could so easily get. That countries outside the EU were queueing up to make deals, but not being allowed to by the EU.
There was no option for leave with no deal, because the leavers ssid any suggestion that it would be difficult to get a deal, or that the only deal to be had was worse than being a member of the EU, was a lie, it was project fear.
There was no option for leave with no deal because the leave side explicitly ruled out leave with no deal.
There can be no option now for leave with no deal, or any deal that leaves us worse off than being a member, because at the referendum precisely zero people voted for leaving and being worse off. The manifesto promise for leaving was that the country would be better off. Until that promise can be kept, until things are in place that give a certainty (or at least anything like a decent probability) of being better off immediately that the UK leaves, then the referendum result cannot be delivered. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Question time tonight is in the north east I think I think labour will see the mood in the north east and shit them selves
Why? What is the ‘mood’ in the north east? hazard a guess it’s in South Shields tnite 62% leave 37% remain
You tell me? And which deal are they ‘all’ happy with? The Boris deal or no deal? myselfe I’d go for the Boris deal
Do you speak for everyone who voted leave?? lol if you read back I wrote myselfe that means just me no one speaks for all leavers or all remainers even you is that more clear for you lol"
Would it be fair to say that not all leave voters voted for The Boris deal, and not all voted for no deal?? |
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"Question time tonight is in the north east I think I think labour will see the mood in the north east and shit them selves
Why? What is the ‘mood’ in the north east? hazard a guess it’s in South Shields tnite 62% leave 37% remain
You tell me? And which deal are they ‘all’ happy with? The Boris deal or no deal? myselfe I’d go for the Boris deal
Do you speak for everyone who voted leave?? lol if you read back I wrote myselfe that means just me no one speaks for all leavers or all remainers even you is that more clear for you lol
Would it be fair to say that not all leave voters voted for The Boris deal, and not all voted for no deal??"
It would be fair to say that zero voted for leaving with no deal, and zero voted for a deal that left them half-in-half-out and worse off. The manifesto promise of the leave campaign was to leave the EU and be better off. This campaign was pushed relentlessly. Every single voter marking the leave box did so in the belief that this would make them better off, because that was the promise given. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Question time tonight is in the north east I think I think labour will see the mood in the north east and shit them selves
Why? What is the ‘mood’ in the north east? hazard a guess it’s in South Shields tnite 62% leave 37% remain
"
The north east is the poorest part of britain which reflects the demographics of the leave voters. |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Question time tonight is in the north east I think I think labour will see the mood in the north east and shit them selves
Why? What is the ‘mood’ in the north east? hazard a guess it’s in South Shields tnite 62% leave 37% remain
You tell me? And which deal are they ‘all’ happy with? The Boris deal or no deal? myselfe I’d go for the Boris deal
Do you speak for everyone who voted leave?? lol if you read back I wrote myselfe that means just me no one speaks for all leavers or all remainers even you is that more clear for you lol
Would it be fair to say that not all leave voters voted for The Boris deal, and not all voted for no deal??
It would be fair to say that zero voted for leaving with no deal, and zero voted for a deal that left them half-in-half-out and worse off. The manifesto promise of the leave campaign was to leave the EU and be better off. This campaign was pushed relentlessly. Every single voter marking the leave box did so in the belief that this would make them better off, because that was the promise given. "
It could also, of course, be argued that remain voters were equally as split.
Some say they voted for the 'status quo' - to remain exactly as it is at the moment. When challenged about this, they know it won't stay that way, other countries may join, the rules and laws will change, economies will change, we may take the Euro at some point in the future, etc, etc. But this is a 'part of the evolution of the EU.' However these people also want to know what leaving will look like for the next thousand years.
Others want to 'remain and reform', but when challenged all have a variety of opinions as to what needs reforming, when, how, and to what. Some say we should join the Euro, be a part of Schengen, others say no way. I've spoken to remainers that would be quite happy with an EU wide army, others that say no way. Some that say the UK's economic policy should be completely decided by the UK 'as is the case now' (it's not), others that would be quite happy with things such as all taxation and intetest rates to be ruled centrally in the EU. Some that think we should relinquish our rebate. And others that think their should only be majority voting, no vetoes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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All that you lot say here is Politics. All very valid and many words spoken which sound very statesman and stateswoman like but the fact is we should learn from the error of the previous referendum and have a proper one which the 3 questions on the table which should have been there and a 2nd preference vote. I suggest anyone that looks in the politics forum googles second preference voting, studies it a little and then realise why first referendum was downright wrong and should have been called void as in hindsight ( a wonderful thing) a section of voters did not have the question on the ballot paper which we should have had and an opportunity to express that opinion. Thats what I'm saying but everyone jumps into politician mode and starts spouting, we won you lost, Bla Bla Bla and so on and so on.
The thing is and it's quite subtle really. The opinion I wanted to express at the time was when I think about it and because I am a wishy washy left of centre conservative " mmmm yes I quite like David cameron's deal but I don't think it goes quite far enough on XYZ so I think I'd like to either leave with a deal or get a better one inside. Hang on a minute I can't vote leave because I'm putting myself in with Nigel Farages load and they could really drop us in the shit so I'll have to vote remain for the good of my wallet.
There you go...... The real reason I voted remain. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I guess the point is referendums are usually simplistic and binary and as you say the question was and still is too complex for most of us to make any choice except the one our gut tells us to take which will be driven by emotion which is always a bad idea - having said that, I doubt even the wisdom of solomon could pull this shit show together. Ah well....happy fabbing
So you're saying that people like us are too stupid to vote in referendums then ???. Isn't that what politicians want you to think. Uncle Boris and jeremy will sort it all out for you. Don't worry. After this shit fest we will never be allowed another referendum ever again. Some people will say good riddance."
Not at all. Its human nature to reduce complex problems to an emotional decision which often is a bad choice informed by fear or anger. It’s probably why on the one hand we have judges to absolve us of making difficult choices, and on the other hand we go to war verbally and physically so often. We are complicated and stupid and brilliant but we need to try and remember that we are human too. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I guess the point is referendums are usually simplistic and binary and as you say the question was and still is too complex for most of us to make any choice except the one our gut tells us to take which will be driven by emotion which is always a bad idea - having said that, I doubt even the wisdom of solomon could pull this shit show together. Ah well....happy fabbing
So you're saying that people like us are too stupid to vote in referendums then ???. Isn't that what politicians want you to think. Uncle Boris and jeremy will sort it all out for you. Don't worry. After this shit fest we will never be allowed another referendum ever again. Some people will say good riddance.
Not at all. Its human nature to reduce complex problems to an emotional decision which often is a bad choice informed by fear or anger. It’s probably why on the one hand we have judges to absolve us of making difficult choices, and on the other hand we go to war verbally and physically so often. We are complicated and stupid and brilliant but we need to try and remember that we are human too. "
I think this whole discussion could be summarised by the Leave voter on a another forum who said he voted leave to "get rid of the Pakistanis and Indians".
It's such a relief to know that the future of generations of Britons is in the hands of such intellectual giants. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I guess the point is referendums are usually simplistic and binary and as you say the question was and still is too complex for most of us to make any choice except the one our gut tells us to take which will be driven by emotion which is always a bad idea - having said that, I doubt even the wisdom of solomon could pull this shit show together. Ah well....happy fabbing
So you're saying that people like us are too stupid to vote in referendums then ???. Isn't that what politicians want you to think. Uncle Boris and jeremy will sort it all out for you. Don't worry. After this shit fest we will never be allowed another referendum ever again. Some people will say good riddance.
Not at all. Its human nature to reduce complex problems to an emotional decision which often is a bad choice informed by fear or anger. It’s probably why on the one hand we have judges to absolve us of making difficult choices, and on the other hand we go to war verbally and physically so often. We are complicated and stupid and brilliant but we need to try and remember that we are human too.
I think this whole discussion could be summarised by the Leave voter on a another forum who said he voted leave to "get rid of the Pakistanis and Indians".
It's such a relief to know that the future of generations of Britons is in the hands of such intellectual giants. "
mate get real you are always going to get some it doesn't represent the majority like i have just read someone thinking its funny that our parliament is in such a state and hope it carries on for his amusement.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I guess the point is referendums are usually simplistic and binary and as you say the question was and still is too complex for most of us to make any choice except the one our gut tells us to take which will be driven by emotion which is always a bad idea - having said that, I doubt even the wisdom of solomon could pull this shit show together. Ah well....happy fabbing
So you're saying that people like us are too stupid to vote in referendums then ???. Isn't that what politicians want you to think. Uncle Boris and jeremy will sort it all out for you. Don't worry. After this shit fest we will never be allowed another referendum ever again. Some people will say good riddance.
Not at all. Its human nature to reduce complex problems to an emotional decision which often is a bad choice informed by fear or anger. It’s probably why on the one hand we have judges to absolve us of making difficult choices, and on the other hand we go to war verbally and physically so often. We are complicated and stupid and brilliant but we need to try and remember that we are human too.
I think this whole discussion could be summarised by the Leave voter on a another forum who said he voted leave to "get rid of the Pakistanis and Indians".
It's such a relief to know that the future of generations of Britons is in the hands of such intellectual giants. "
Brexit for some has always been about ethno nationalism and the racial purification of these isles...
Sad but true. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I guess the point is referendums are usually simplistic and binary and as you say the question was and still is too complex for most of us to make any choice except the one our gut tells us to take which will be driven by emotion which is always a bad idea - having said that, I doubt even the wisdom of solomon could pull this shit show together. Ah well....happy fabbing
So you're saying that people like us are too stupid to vote in referendums then ???. Isn't that what politicians want you to think. Uncle Boris and jeremy will sort it all out for you. Don't worry. After this shit fest we will never be allowed another referendum ever again. Some people will say good riddance.
Not at all. Its human nature to reduce complex problems to an emotional decision which often is a bad choice informed by fear or anger. It’s probably why on the one hand we have judges to absolve us of making difficult choices, and on the other hand we go to war verbally and physically so often. We are complicated and stupid and brilliant but we need to try and remember that we are human too.
I think this whole discussion could be summarised by the Leave voter on a another forum who said he voted leave to "get rid of the Pakistanis and Indians".
It's such a relief to know that the future of generations of Britons is in the hands of such intellectual giants. mate get real you are always going to get some it doesn't represent the majority like i have just read someone thinking its funny that our parliament is in such a state and hope it carries on for his amusement. "
Do you honestly believe the Brexit vote was based only economic empowerment rather than anti-foriegner sentiment?
As we stand on the verge of a no deal Brexit only a handful of multi billionaires who have shorted the pound will benefit. Sadly these Boris Johnson puppetmasters also control the press and have convinced the poorest of the poor that foreigners are to blame for their lot in life and not the fact that a majority of the country's wealth is in the hands of a few. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I guess the point is referendums are usually simplistic and binary and as you say the question was and still is too complex for most of us to make any choice except the one our gut tells us to take which will be driven by emotion which is always a bad idea - having said that, I doubt even the wisdom of solomon could pull this shit show together. Ah well....happy fabbing
So you're saying that people like us are too stupid to vote in referendums then ???. Isn't that what politicians want you to think. Uncle Boris and jeremy will sort it all out for you. Don't worry. After this shit fest we will never be allowed another referendum ever again. Some people will say good riddance.
Not at all. Its human nature to reduce complex problems to an emotional decision which often is a bad choice informed by fear or anger. It’s probably why on the one hand we have judges to absolve us of making difficult choices, and on the other hand we go to war verbally and physically so often. We are complicated and stupid and brilliant but we need to try and remember that we are human too.
I think this whole discussion could be summarised by the Leave voter on a another forum who said he voted leave to "get rid of the Pakistanis and Indians".
It's such a relief to know that the future of generations of Britons is in the hands of such intellectual giants.
Brexit for some has always been about ethno nationalism and the racial purification of these isles...
Sad but true."
It's nothing new. Trump used it in his campaign to "protect" white Americans from a perceived Latino onslaught. Verwoed spoke of the Swart Gevaar (black danger) to institute apartheid and Hitler did the same thing using the Jews as a scapegoat.
Unfortunately we tend to believe our leaders even when they are proven habitual liars.
There was a time when we scorned the dishonest. Now we see dishonesty as a virtue and it wins our vote. You only have to look at what is happening with the Trump fiasco to realise how the line between heroes and villains has become blurred. |
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"As we stand on the verge of a no deal Brexit only a handful of multi billionaires who have shorted the pound will benefit. Sadly these Boris Johnson puppetmasters also control the press and have convinced the poorest of the poor that foreigners are to blame for their lot in life and not the fact that a majority of the country's wealth is in the hands of a few."
True enough.
There's the old joke /prophecy about the banker, the worker and the immigrant sitting in a restaurant.
The waiter delivers a plate of ten sandwiches. The banker immediately takes 9 sandwiches for himself, and leans over to the worker and says, "You should keep an eye on that immigrant - he's after your sandwich"
Sums our country up a treat |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As we stand on the verge of a no deal Brexit only a handful of multi billionaires who have shorted the pound will benefit. Sadly these Boris Johnson puppetmasters also control the press and have convinced the poorest of the poor that foreigners are to blame for their lot in life and not the fact that a majority of the country's wealth is in the hands of a few.
True enough.
There's the old joke /prophecy about the banker, the worker and the immigrant sitting in a restaurant.
The waiter delivers a plate of ten sandwiches. The banker immediately takes 9 sandwiches for himself, and leans over to the worker and says, "You should keep an eye on that immigrant - he's after your sandwich"
Sums our country up a treat "
There's another joke where a no deal crash out of the EU is blamed on the French instead of the English PM who wrote a letter asking for it to happen.
Oh no wait that isn't a joke. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
Brexit for some has always been about ethno nationalism and the racial purification of these isles...
Sad but true."
Eugenics never went away.
The Holocaust simply drove it underground.
I recall reading about one or two poisonous individuals in the Trump-Johnson circus who cling to the science in order to justify their racial prejudices.
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It's about time the government started to-do what the people voted for not what they want to do, having said that brexit has becomes so much of a mockery does anyone even know what it is anymore because we have no ideas, all delve government are doing is make us as a entire nation look stupid |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"I guess the point is referendums are usually simplistic and binary and as you say the question was and still is too complex for most of us to make any choice except the one our gut tells us to take which will be driven by emotion which is always a bad idea - having said that, I doubt even the wisdom of solomon could pull this shit show together. Ah well....happy fabbing
So you're saying that people like us are too stupid to vote in referendums then ???. Isn't that what politicians want you to think. Uncle Boris and jeremy will sort it all out for you. Don't worry. After this shit fest we will never be allowed another referendum ever again. Some people will say good riddance.
Not at all. Its human nature to reduce complex problems to an emotional decision which often is a bad choice informed by fear or anger. It’s probably why on the one hand we have judges to absolve us of making difficult choices, and on the other hand we go to war verbally and physically so often. We are complicated and stupid and brilliant but we need to try and remember that we are human too. "
So could it be argued that some people's decision to vote remain were based upon an emotional fear of the unknown of leaving the EU - "better the devil you know", as it were? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's about time the government started to-do what the people voted for not what they want to do, having said that brexit has becomes so much of a mockery does anyone even know what it is anymore because we have no ideas, all delve government are doing is make us as a entire nation look stupid "
Who are "the people"? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The 52% of people who voted and won the referendum "
The referendum that was based on us being guaranteed on us getting a deal.
If we crash out next week next week without a deal do you think all 52% will be happy with that? |
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And why haven't we got a deal ? Because as previously stated the government arnt doing what the people voted for mainly due to a single minded politician has consistently sabatarged and destroyed all the attempts, yet the same man doesn't want a no deal ?
I voted out I still vote our deal or no deal
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And why haven't we got a deal ? Because as previously stated the government arnt doing what the people voted for mainly due to a single minded politician has consistently sabatarged and destroyed all the attempts, yet the same man doesn't want a no deal ?
I voted out I still vote our deal or no deal
"
I would suggest you don’t vote for the government (conservatives)in future.Boris has lied to you .. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" I have never voted conservative
But I would now to keep Corbin out "
Only the Brexit party knows the true meaning of Brexit.
Farage is out to destroy Boris and his plastic Brexit..
Don’t vote for a liar and a fake Brexit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The 52% of people who voted and won the referendum
The referendum that was based on us being guaranteed on us getting a deal.
If we crash out next week next week without a deal do you think all 52% will be happy with that?"
Probably about 10 to 15% will be satisfied if the polls are right at the moment
|
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And why are none of them happy - because Mr Corbin has systematically destroyed every attempt to actually deliver brexit takes - I haven't see him once offer a viable deal ? Have you
He wants another referendum because he didn't like the answwr of the first, he promised his own party he would work towards brexit constructively... 2 years ago I'm still waiting Boris is stuck between a rock and a hard place do I like him no
Do i agree with alot of what he does - no
Do i think he's the onky man who will actually delivery brexit so we can all move on and put all this shut behind us- yes |
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Let's all just take a step back and take our brexit opinions to one side
We are not going to get a good deal regardless of who negotiates it Europe has seen the discontent between the country and backed us into a corner , we have tried to make a deal twice bith of with have been rejected we have then said fine we will leave with no deal to try out the pressure back on them and they have called our bluff.
Just take a deal get out and then work towards uniting the country and making the United kingdom a powerhouse as a independent country again |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I guess the point is referendums are usually simplistic and binary and as you say the question was and still is too complex for most of us to make any choice except the one our gut tells us to take which will be driven by emotion which is always a bad idea - having said that, I doubt even the wisdom of solomon could pull this shit show together. Ah well....happy fabbing
So you're saying that people like us are too stupid to vote in referendums then ???. Isn't that what politicians want you to think. Uncle Boris and jeremy will sort it all out for you. Don't worry. After this shit fest we will never be allowed another referendum ever again. Some people will say good riddance.
Not at all. Its human nature to reduce complex problems to an emotional decision which often is a bad choice informed by fear or anger. It’s probably why on the one hand we have judges to absolve us of making difficult choices, and on the other hand we go to war verbally and physically so often. We are complicated and stupid and brilliant but we need to try and remember that we are human too.
So could it be argued that some people's decision to vote remain were based upon an emotional fear of the unknown of leaving the EU - "better the devil you know", as it were?"
Yes absolutely...,just as some voted out because they didnt want to know the devils as it were! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Let's all just take a step back and take our brexit opinions to one side
We are not going to get a good deal regardless of who negotiates it Europe has seen the discontent between the country and backed us into a corner , we have tried to make a deal twice bith of with have been rejected we have then said fine we will leave with no deal to try out the pressure back on them and they have called our bluff.
Just take a deal get out and then work towards uniting the country and making the United kingdom a powerhouse as a independent country again "
Actually the deal was voted for. But it needs amendments. Do you not think that something that affects Britons for generations to come shouldn't be one where we are better off.
Why is Boris so hell bent on leaving on the 31st? We've waited 3 years. It doesn't make sense. Until you take into account that Johnson's backers have shorted the Pound. That is to say the people influencing the outcome of all of this will make millions, billions, out of ANYTHING that is BAD for the UK. They are betting against the UK!
No powerhouse. It will ruin Britain. Only the super rich get richer. Everyone else will be poorer. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
[quote/]
Eugenics never went away.
The Holocaust simply drove it underground.
I recall reading about one or two poisonous individuals in the Trump-Johnson circus who cling to the science in order to justify their racial prejudices.
Another delusional howler, I'm sad to read....
It would seem the 'Comic Cuts' is still going strong down Bristol way....
Or maybe the 'Penny Dreadful'...??!
Nowt but negative, no can do, glass half (bloody) empty.
What a way to be, hmmm....??! [quote/] |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Let's all just take a step back and take our brexit opinions to one side
We are not going to get a good deal regardless of who negotiates it Europe has seen the discontent between the country and backed us into a corner , we have tried to make a deal twice bith of with have been rejected we have then said fine we will leave with no deal to try out the pressure back on them and they have called our bluff.
Just take a deal get out and then work towards uniting the country and making the United kingdom a powerhouse as a independent country again "
I agree with this. The referendum was badly done and lumping leave with no deal with leave with a deal was really crappy thing to do. It's why I voted to remain as I could see what a shit fest this was going to be. We were not given the correct choices. |
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No deal exit was officially excluded as an exit option by the brexit campaign in that first referendum, so should not be considered or permitted as possible now. The process and terms should be put to the better educated electorate before any exit in future. The intelligent thing to do is to revoke Article 50 @nd then to restar if it's something that a significant predetermined percentage of the citizens want to exit but only via very exacting terms. Where major losses are to happen, it should only be possible if an overwhelming majority, like 80% of the population vote for it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The EU referendum atracted the highest turnout in political history. A second referendum is prodicted to attract the lowest as 17.2 million people disenfranchised that their vote was ignored they are not going to vote again so any 2nd referendum is predicted to be about 30% of the electorate and an of that 50+ vote to remain which translates to about 14-20% of the electorate, so by it nature will be a minority vote as such wholey undemocratic.
Ironically the person who wants to leave the EU more than Boris is actually Jeremy Corbyn lol |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"No deal exit was officially excluded as an exit option by the brexit campaign in that first referendum, so should not be considered or permitted as possible now. The process and terms should be put to the better educated electorate before any exit in future. The intelligent thing to do is to revoke Article 50 @nd then to restar if it's something that a significant predetermined percentage of the citizens want to exit but only via very exacting terms. Where major losses are to happen, it should only be possible if an overwhelming majority, like 80% of the population vote for it. "
Your voting slip must have been totally different to the other 33 million voting slips then. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
30.8 million cast a vote in the 2015 election.
Once every five years, we were told.
The Conservative Party changes its leader and the new one decides she does't really like the 2015 result.
So we have to vote again in 2017.
The Conservative Party changes its leader again and the new one decides he doesn't really like the 2017 result.
So he wants us to have to vote again.
Keep voting until you get the right result, eh?
|
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"30.8 million cast a vote in the 2015 election.
Once every five years, we were told.
The Conservative Party changes its leader and the new one decides she does't really like the 2015 result.
So we have to vote again in 2017.
The Conservative Party changes its leader again and the new one decides he doesn't really like the 2017 result.
So he wants us to have to vote again.
Keep voting until you get the right result, eh?
"
Their way or no way. Notice the 12 of December 2019 is the Thursday before the end of 2019s academic term... |
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By *uxinteriorMan
over a year ago
south west , continental |
A second referendum will be weighted in favour of remain. There will be possibly three questions:
Remain
Leave with a deal
Leave.
Even if it's two questions it will be:
Remain
Leave with a deal
Those in favour of remain will tick their remain box. Leavers will however be split. It would not be a majority for leave as there are hard brexiteers and soft brexiteers. Hard brexiteers want a no deal, WTO withdrawal.
The establishment win, the overlords, the string pullers, they never wanted to leave anyway, nor do the EU.
It's a game, politics is all a game and we're all played and hoodwinked daily. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"30.8 million cast a vote in the 2015 election.
Once every five years, we were told.
The Conservative Party changes its leader and the new one decides she does't really like the 2015 result.
So we have to vote again in 2017.
The Conservative Party changes its leader again and the new one decides he doesn't really like the 2017 result.
So he wants us to have to vote again.
Keep voting until you get the right result, eh?
Their way or no way. Notice the 12 of December 2019 is the Thursday before the end of 2019s academic term..."
Of course it’s a cunning plan by Cummings to prevent students voting because they predominantly vote for Corbyn.
I’m guessing labour will say fuck that.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
In the referendum students who were unable to vote as they were under 18 at the time, remain parties are using them as justification for a second referendum. What about future generations of students? do they not get a vote or is their vote only considered if they vote to remain. So by this premise every year we should have a new referendum to take into account the new generation of students at 18. Remain parties accuse the brexit parties of lieing an manipulation if public opinion. Is it not what they are doing. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
Of course it’s a cunning plan by Cummings to prevent students voting because they predominantly vote for Corbyn.
I’m guessing labour will say fuck that.. "
It's a cunning plan to distract from Johnson's spectacular failure to deliver what he promised week after week since June.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Of course it’s a cunning plan by Cummings to prevent students voting because they predominantly vote for Corbyn.
I’m guessing labour will say fuck that..
It's a cunning plan to distract from Johnson's spectacular failure to deliver what he promised week after week since June.
"
Boris has gone full trump.Keep telling lie after lie and the truth no longer matters.
Orwellian. |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"30.8 million cast a vote in the 2015 election.
Once every five years, we were told.
The Conservative Party changes its leader and the new one decides she does't really like the 2015 result.
So we have to vote again in 2017.
The Conservative Party changes its leader again and the new one decides he doesn't really like the 2017 result.
So he wants us to have to vote again.
Keep voting until you get the right result, eh?
"
Your comment would have some point to it if it was true.
It's not.
It was Parliament that decided we should have an election in 2017, not the tories.
And it was Corbyn who has been asking for another election since Johnson became Prime Minister - apart from when it's actually been offered to him.
And it will be Parliament that decides if there is another election before 2022.
Plenty on here have said that Johnson is not the elected PM and there should be a General Election - nearly all, if not all, remainers. You may also have said this at some point.
Personally, I would like a General Election, not because of Brexit, but I'm hoping that as many of the 650 scumbags, of whatever party or remain or leave, that are in there at present are removed. |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"30.8 million cast a vote in the 2015 election.
Once every five years, we were told.
The Conservative Party changes its leader and the new one decides she does't really like the 2015 result.
So we have to vote again in 2017.
The Conservative Party changes its leader again and the new one decides he doesn't really like the 2017 result.
So he wants us to have to vote again.
Keep voting until you get the right result, eh?
Their way or no way. Notice the 12 of December 2019 is the Thursday before the end of 2019s academic term...
Of course it’s a cunning plan by Cummings to prevent students voting because they predominantly vote for Corbyn.
I’m guessing labour will say fuck that.. "
I'm sure if they were that concerned they would stay until they end of the term and vote... Or maybe even use a postal vote. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"A second referendum will be weighted in favour of remain. There will be possibly three questions:
Remain
Leave with a deal
Leave.
Even if it's two questions it will be:
Remain
Leave with a deal
Those in favour of remain will tick their remain box. Leavers will however be split. It would not be a majority for leave as there are hard brexiteers and soft brexiteers. Hard brexiteers want a no deal, WTO withdrawal.
The establishment win, the overlords, the string pullers, they never wanted to leave anyway, nor do the EU.
It's a game, politics is all a game and we're all played and hoodwinked daily. "
Agreed if you adopt a first past the post approach but You are fundamentally wrong here if a second preference is exercised, Google it and you will see why. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
Your comment would have some point to it if it was true.
It's not.
It was Parliament that decided we should have an election in 2017, not the tories.
."
You are re-writing history.
It was Mrs May's call.
I remember her press conference outside in Downing Street when she declared she wanted a General Election.
She needed 2/3rds of Parliament to say yes.
She led the largest party. She wanted the election.
The result of the 2015 election did not suit her, so she asked people to vote again.
|
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
So that was 2017.
No need for an election until 2022.
Go away and leave us alone for five years, basically.
But no.
First May, and now Johnson, dug themselves into such a hole that Johnson sees another election as the only way to dig himself out of it.
I suspect the electorate will do exactly what they did with May and have a "Brenda from Bristol" moment,
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So that was 2017.
No need for an election until 2022.
Go away and leave us alone for five years, basically.
But no.
First May, and now Johnson, dug themselves into such a hole that Johnson sees another election as the only way to dig himself out of it.
I suspect the electorate will do exactly what they did with May and have a "Brenda from Bristol" moment,
"
I am a businessman who is in the top 10% of income earners in the UK. It is in my personal best interest that Boris Johnson and his backers stay in power. However I cannot in good conscience vote for anyone who behaves the way our PM does, nor back people who sell the hardworking population of Briton down the river to stuff their already full pockets.
It breaks my heart when the people being screwed, vote for the people screwing them. |
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